To listen to this interview and others, search 'Intrinsically Ordered' on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, RUclips, etc. (@intrinsicallyordered). To join our discussion community for $1/month and get early access to videos, consider supporting my patreon: patreon.com/c/gayextrad.
🙏🙏 so glad to have you in the community, John! It really does get better - that like needs to be out new motto - so important to remember in the tough times
I'm sorry that the Catholic Church made things so hard. I have a friend who was a Catholic, she said that she knew heterosexual priests who left , bc when they really got honest with themselves, they needed to be married. So they left the priesthood.
Celibacy is a discipline not a Doctrine. One can choose to stat single whether he's a priest or layman. Of course there are many rites in our Church, some allowed married men to become priest.
@@calson814 all the priests have to make three vows, one of them is chastity. To Catholic, celibacy already includes in the religious vocation. Married men are allowed only after their wives are dead - but when you show your interest, they would reject you by saying that you are too old to be a priest now
This video gave me so much hope as a gay ex-catholic. Many of us I'm sure have felt that we would be totally isolated and unsupported if we made the leap to leave the church. I find this story of solidarity so touching!
I was a Baptist Pastor and overseas missionary. I was married to my very accepting wife. I resigned because I am gay, medically proven. I resigned and we returned home. I was told I am not welcome to even attend church because I am gay. I cared for my wife with MS for 26 years before she passed in 2022. I thanked her for accepting me as her gay husband and she said "Of course. That was easy. Why wouldn't I?" Amazing lady. Both my kids are very accepting, which is great. I occasionally attend a gay friendly church called Metropolitan Community Church, but I'm not a member. After returning home I studied accounting part time and worked for a large mining company for 26 years. I have now retired and I live alone. Long journey. BTW I totally support Same Sex Marriage.
Wow, Ron, that is such a touching story - thank you so much for sharing! I’m so sorry to hear what you went through. Your wife sounds like a wonderful lady and made the world a brighter place. Wishing you the best in your journey, Ron 🙏🙏
@@ronsmith2241 I am gay but I can't understand why gay husband can have his own children? I want to understand this mystery but I can't find any a way to know
Really beautiful that Fr. Jordan had so much support from y’all. I know one of the fears leaving is that no one will be there to support you because you’ve left the role and the “brotherhood.” It’s important to remember that community and true friendship can exist even outside of the Church. Thanks for sharing this with us.
Thank you so much for what you're doing man. I've been out for a few years at this point, but this would have been exactly what I needed while in the closet. Keep it up. If you can have an episode about relating (as a queer person) with family or close friends who are still in the trad- Catholic community, that would be so awesome.
This was such a beautiful act of solidarity with this man. I am so grateful his entire parish loved him so much and were not afraid to show it. That will always sing in him more than the sad sounds of the pathetic bishop and sketchy fellow priests. To separate oneself from this 'god filtering' organization and maintain dignity takes so much courage. The work of the Holy Spirit shines all the more in men like this, and the men who showed up to be there with him. Bravo, Cade!
I was asked to leave the seminary after opening up to my seminary formators about my struggles with same sex attraction. Up until that point, I had been a “stellar” seminarian with so much promise. I was loved and admired by everyone and often used as a reference point for what a good seminarian should be. Suddenly, I became the devil incarnate. Leaving the seminary was a very painful time, the worst experience of my life. I had always wanted to be a priest from when I was a young child. Love for God and his church consumed me with a dangerous passion. And believe me, from the time I discovered my attraction to the same sex at age 8 or 9, I had been fighting my “weakness” with prayer, fasting, tears, novenas and retreats - all to no avail. When I was asked to leave the seminary, I did not only feel let down by the priests I had opened up to, I felt betrayed by God for whom I felt I had given up so much, even my personal happiness. One of my formators told me, “better a promiscuous straight priest than a celibate gay one.” I was so broken. I invoked Canon Law and the council documents of Vatican 2 to argue reasons I shouldn’t be asked to leave the seminary. I was told by one of my formators the church isn’t a court of law and that they took decisions by the Holy Spirit. I was further told that my desperation to remain in the seminary was a clear demonstration that I hadn’t truly been called by God. In that moment, my one prayer to God was to help me not lose my faith because of everything that was happening. And I held on for one year after that. But the pain, anger and bitterness wouldn’t go. I was torn between love for God and the church, and love for myself. God and his church required me to view myself as abnormal and hate myself for a sexual orientation I had come to learn I really had no control over. And believe me, I was willing to hate myself if that was all that stood in the way of serving God as his priest. Being a strong willed person all my life, I was determined to never act on my tendencies. But even that was not good enough for my formators. In the end, after falling into depression and anguish, I chose myself. I wouldn’t come out formally. But I decided to stop viewing myself as abnormal and my orientation as a problem. I decided to embrace and love who I was and what I was. But I couldn’t reconcile my faith with this decision. Everything I had been taught screamed I was on the side of evil for accepting myself. I couldn’t bring myself anymore to believe that God existed. It made no sense to me. An absolutely good God will not inflict this weakness on me, even after I had begged him for years to take it away from me, and then through his Holy Spirit, direct my formators to kick me out of the seminary after I opened up to them about this weakness in good faith. I could not accept myself while believing in the existence of such a God. That would have been hypocrisy and double standards. So I gave up my faith. It hasn’t been a walk in the park since then. I used to be filled with so much anger and hate just at the mention of God or the church. I knew this was wrong and I didn’t want that in my heart. I have worked to switch that emotion to indifference. And when I miss those hymns or psalms or prayers I used to love so much, I allow myself to sing and recite them without making anything of it. I know it’ll take a long while but I’ll be patient. I wouldn’t wish what I went through on anyone. And I am glad, as I have come to learn, that others in my position are receiving support from some within the church and in their communities.
Wow, man! I'm so sorry to hear you went through all of that - but it's sounds like your healing/rebuilding your life now. I find it such a tragedy that the church makes us choose between our dreams and our identities. I'd love to have you on the podcast sometime, if you're interested! Regardless, wishing you the best on your journey, homie!
Man, do I feel for you. I did not leave the Church on account of being gay but rather out of disgust at the novus ordo mass. I simply walked out in the middle of Easter service (1977). No, I was not fussing over ad orientem or the omission of this or that preface. I walked out because I felt I was witnessing a husk without spiritual substance. (And yes... the priest WAS wearing K-Mart sandals...) When I did come out, four years later, I had to reject all of Christianity, in fact all of everything. It was a rough night. What triggered the crisis was Kant's pronouncement that crimina carnis contra naturam was "the most abominable conduct of which man can be guilty" more "nauseating" than suicide. You fucking bastard! I shouted and threw the book against the wall. I thought I would loose my mind and rushed out the door for a very long walk, at the end of which I declared my absolute freedom from anyone or anything and all conceptions. I even left the Episcopal Church which had been very warm and helpful to me. No more. None of it! If God wanted to call me up, I was here; but I was not playing His games anymore. No more crying into my pillow and telling myself that He didn't answer because I wasn't sincere enough... or whatever. Nihil in mente nisi prius in sensu... and so I embarked on looking for love in the gutter. The "gay community" was not that welcoming. In fact it was downright abusive toward itself and others. I met some great guys in the worst of places and (may they rest in peace) they became the best of friends. But the "gay community" as such was suffering the effects of sudden release after years of societal persecution and abuse. It is far, far better today simply because society as a whole is more accepting and that allows for a certain normalcy in queer behavior. Like you I was "filled with so much anger and hate just at the mention of [the Abrahamic] God or the church." But, for me, there was one problem: Bach. I argued with a friend that Bach would still have been possible without Christianity. It didn't work. Bach is not possible without Jesus and to listen to Bach is to join with him prayer. (And heretical Lutheran prayer at that!!) Do, absolutely do, allow yourself to sing the hymns and psalms you love. And do so especially "without making anything of it." The whole problem with "the Word" is not hearing it but thinking about it. :) I'm so glad to hear you say this because I'm certain it is the path for you. I don't in the least minimize the abuse that was done to you. I will remember that the next time I feel like puking when I see a bunch of cardinals processing around... The Church goes out of its way to hurt and destroy people. That said, I think that with time you will recover some equanimity about the better angels of the Church in history and in people's lives My heartfelt good wishes to you.
We have similar problems with homophobia in Buddhism (in all schools of Buddhism). However, we do not have the “inalterable word of god” bugbear that turns decent people into lunatics. We are actively changing perceptions. Where scriptures say horrendous things, we point them out as horrendous things. Even in the traditionalist Theravada tradition, several schools of which have recently begun ordaining female monks. Thank you for sharing your journey with us. I have enjoyed watching your vids very much. Namo Buddhaya, love from Taiwan.
@@GayExTrad We have a very famous nun here in Taiwan, of the Mahayana tradition. She is very active in her support of the LGBTQ community. During a news conference (just before they legalized marriage equality) she was reprimanded on national TV for her support. Her opponent asked her how she, as a Buddhist, could go against traditional family values and the Confucianist traditions of China. She responded with something like this, “My good sir, you need to decide, are you a Taoist or a Buddhist? In Buddhism there is no question of ‘my’ family or ‘your’ family and ‘our family values’. We are all family. I am sure that sometime or other you were once my daughter, and I feel certain I raised you to know better.”
@@GayExTradI have had many discussions with visiting Christians who come to Taiwan to collect converts. It has taken all my patience to remain calm. The things they say! What really horrifies me is that they are so used to saying horrifying things that they don’t seem to know how horrifying it is. They expect you not to be shocked. I suppose in the west it is considered normal. I have lived and studied in the west before and I remember having to hide my instinctive revulsion at the things Christians would say about LGBTQ people. You have to keep a straight face so that they don’t detect your shock. We have homophobia too, but we do not have the extreme cruelty that seems to be a Christian addition to the toxic mix.
There is a similar problem with Jehovah’s Witnesses and some other churches. For example, with Jehovah’s Witnesses, the headquarters is run by people working full-time, but working as volunteers. No one is paid. This can be a struggle for those who want to stop working there because they want to leave Jehovah’s Witnesses entirely due to losing their Jehovah’s Witness beliefs. How does someone just walk out the door and start with nothing? Perhaps one thing to focus on is how to take the steps of leaving, whether that's Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Catholic priesthood, or whatever, so that the person leaving can be self-supporting and not walking into despair?
You have a great way of articulating things that I can only "feel". I can in some ways identify with you in that I too was in the seminary for four years and under vows for one year. I was miserable and felt like a hypocrite. I had to leave and yet I was very conflicted in being myself. I did everything that I could think of to become "straight", but nothing worked. The last time I went to confession I was told that Jesus "can't" forgive me for what I am, and my immediate thought was "then what in the hell am I wasting my time here for "?? Even today, I doubt the existence of god. I discovered only a handful of years ago that I have apparently a heterosexual female brain that is trapped in a male body. What kind of a "kind and loving" god would do that to a person ?? Your video presentations are most welcomed because they give solidity to what I could only feel. Thank You so much.
What if you have a female thinking, male brain that works perfectly as God intended? In Nature, God made everything perfect and perfectly balanced. I don’t believe God makes mistakes. Did you know in the original Hebrew Bible before it was translated, it said that a man isn’t to lie with an adolescent boy as he does his spouse? The Hebrew word used for adolescent boy was made into man because there wasn’t a word for homosexuality back then and by this time that it was translated into the KJV Bible, it was frowned upon for men to sleep with these adolescent boys as they used to do. In Biblical days, older men did this to “teach younger boys how to be $exually active with their partners once they were married. Once this was translated into “a man shall not lie with another man,” gay people were immediately ostracized as sinners and abominations, which wasn’t the original teachings of Christ. It’s crazy how people believe this lie instead of looking at it from the time that it was written. I learned this in college when I took Old Testament History at a Baptist College of all places. This really opened my eyes to how many other things are possibly misinterpreted AND how many gay/queer people have taken their lives because they had been told that God never made them gay so they’d be damned for hell. God is love that is beyond a humans understanding and you are made in the eyes of God, perfectly crafted. You have a purpose and God knew your heart before you were born. The fact of all the sperm that tried to get into the egg inside your mother during fertilization, was the one sperm that was needed to create the other half for your very existence to be here today, in itself is a miracle. This life is a gift and it goes by quickly-enjoy it while you have it and I hope you experience all the love you can along the way.🤗 PS. If everything was black and white (heterosexual males and females only), everything else is a lifestyle/choice, then how do heterosexual people explain those that are intersex, having both sets of genitals? You see, there’s more than we understand but I know being gay/queer isn’t a mistake, whether it’s to help population control or be the link needed in every family to help be the “glue” that holds it together, I don’t know. I do know though that you are perfectly made so don’t listen to anything other than that and teach those that are willing to learn.
Wonderful video (as well as your others). I can identify with much of this priest's story. I was a priest in a religious community. I left after 20+ years of priesthood as well and had to start from basically nothing. (I was fortunate that my community did support me with some "start up" costs in my new life, like paying me for household goods.). What my community put me through to "help" me in my "discernment" (after being discovered using a gay-related web site) was horrible, but over time, I managed to use their fear-driven response for my own good. It does get better, but the scars of trauma never completely disappear. Unlike your journey, my young gay ex-trad, I have maintained a faith in God, Jesus, and even the Church. I had had a close relationship with Jesus well, well before even entering the seminary, and the Church I have come to see is just plain wrong about its approach to sexual morality. Its premises and conclusions are outdated, and harmful, as you have pointed out in other videos you have produced. Nevertheless, the Church still is my greatest channel for "sacramentality" (i.e., how God's presence is mediated in my experience). Thankfully, here in the Chicago archdiocese there is a wonderful ministry called AGLO for LGBT+ Catholics. You should check it out.
@ also I’m far a older than you and find how much you’ve put together amazing. You are very thoughtful and I feel you may benefit many. A happy and productive life to you 🙏💛
Tortured Catholic I enter in the church I haven’t been so long, still wounded by the priest who taught me right and wrong. Yet I miss the votive lights, the red and white, lit by loving hands, winking welcome, and the ancient smell of incense like a lingering lost friend calling me home again. The strong worn walnut pews, complaining now of bodies sat so many years now worn and bruised- reminds me of the hours in prayer so fervent from a sinner who has erred. O how I miss the head-crowned saints upon their pedestals, arms outstretched with lacquered lips with eyes arranged celestial. Dear Jesus on the cross impaled, the bloody head, the hands hard nailed, the chanted tunes, the manger nest, Puer natus est. The genuflection, sine reflection, the crossing gesture done in haste, the mumbled prayers so pointless said, the cross that’s carved upon the head. The wafer placed upon the tongue, the old familiar hymns oft sung. O how I miss the thoughtless rites, the chasubles and surplice whites, the wasted words in homily, true sign of real humility. The bishop’s ring, the bowing thing, the stance before the habit awe, from me now bitter flavor draw. And nuns, a species most confusing, a strain of women so amusing. The scapulars, the rosaries, the holy water, mocked up miracles, the sightings of the Virgin blesst, the baby suckling on her breast. Confessing sin that soon surrounds and penetrates the soul, the priest forgives by penance gives does often take its toll. A strangling, claustrophobic rite that chains you to the church so tight with shame and guilt, and binds you to the wrong and right. The papal chair which oft abuses, censors, cancels and refuses. Now how this nonsense penetrated deep, disturbed my wakefulness and even sleep. O where, O where is Jesus, in all this posturing, the Spirit worship and the Truth? I deem I only miss the shallow shell that mesmerized my youth.
I am a Catholic. I served the church in the capacity of a choir and a musician. I was born a Catholic - so I feel that I can tell an honest take on my personal opinion. The Catholic church is superbly bad in dealing with contemporary issues. Sometimes I wonder if the Catholic teaching is really applicable in the real, real life. Things such as priest sexual abuse (the best example) is not discussed at all in the community level. We will instead be asked to focus on our relationship with God, or we will be encouraged to join seminars/workshop on the Holy Spirit. Which is FINE. But be ready if you want support when it comes to LGBT issues, or when you want to debate about celibacy among priests or whether they should be allowed to be married. As for the priest in this video - I would say that what had happened is the best thing that happened to him. He has left an organization that did not value and support him just because his values don't align. In fact - living as a Catholic, most things are just either Black or White - no shades of grey. Yes or No. He can still serve the people, he can still serve Him - even if not under the dictation of The Catholic Church.
Great thoughts! Yeah, I think both the reason people are attracted to the church and also the reason most people end up leaving is that black and white thinking. But for many who were born into it, they ca find that gray space.
You hit the nail on the head. I love the Catholic Church and cherished it for many years, yet that which I love so much is the source of my self-hatred. I have a God-shaped hole in my heart and nothing to fill it. What do I do now?
We all have our own journey. I found worshiping with affirming community so helpful. They are Protestant so it's also been like hundreds of years of history playing out in my head. I started by looking for a community that celebrates same-sex marriage.
I can't recommending find a good therapist enough! I don't think you have a god-shaped hole in your heart - I think you've come to rely on and be pressed by catholic brainwashing. It takes time, but you can be free of it and live a wonderful life
To have authentic life is the most important. Not only sex orientation, but also you turned yourself to be hypocrite when you chose religious life. You must take collective action, your fellows move then you can move. As for me, lose personality means you are not yourself any more, what is the good to save other people if you lost yourself??
I used to be very fond of the Mass, something I attended daily from my high school days and through university. I have dropped in on them, now and then, over the years. The homily is usually pretty bad, something hateful in one way or another, and reminds me of why I left. I did not leave for being gay. I left because I could not accept the metaphysics, the conception of God, all of which struck me as logically impossible and inconsistent with my actual experience.
I have had the pleasure of listening to three of your podcasts. You are very well spoken. Metropolitan Community Churches (LGBTQ) can use your talents and skill sets. To me, this congregation has roots in Catholicism. I was raised Southern Baptist and still felt welcomed. Please continue sharing your gift.
Thank you so much for the kind words! Hopefully we can all make a difference fighting against christian fundamentalism/homophobia from both inside and outside of christianity :)
We have choices to make in life. Every choice we choose has a consequence we have to carry on. It's sad story but we can't blame on the Church on this issue.
So, I'm just wondering, a lot that you've talked about has good insight, but do you still believe in any of it, not from just the a human standpoint that we can find some good in anything, but from the other side. Do you believe there is a God, as descriped in the book, either in whole or in part? Also, if the church on face valve rejects the gay community, why even argue the need to be apart of it at all? As I mentioned, you make good points about what the church is not being completely clear on the topic of homosexuality in the church (really good points), but have you done a video on what should the gay community look like in or outside the church? Example, Some have made the point that marriage is not necessary for intimate relationships as long as they are committed to each other, but gave no details on how that works in a community. Not saying this is your intention, but it's a lot easier to show people when something is not working right, verses, how it should work or look. So, in my head, if there is no God, or if the bible is not his tool to communicate to his creation, than why make the argument at all, and just focus on what the gay community should look like, because it is differently struggling with a number community issues, which is not hard to see.
@@edwardstewart4430 the purpose of this community is to help people who are trapped in a church that actively hates them. I wish I had come across this channel or something like it when I was in high school and decided to throw the prime years of my life away on a church that hates me and teaches me to hate myself. It’s about calling out the evil that the church perpetuates in the world and giving hope to LGBTQ+ people stuck in the Catholic Church, fundamentalist evangelical churches or any religion that teaches that homosexuality is an abomination. It’s about realizing that if there is a God, he made you as you are and there is nothing wrong with you. Your love isn’t a sin. Your love isn’t disordered. This is an extremely important message for those trapped in an institution that teaches such harmful beliefs.
Happy to give a brief reply - I've been meaning to make a video precisely about this. 1. Do I supernaturally believe in God (i.e a divine entity that exists apart from humans)? No. I fashion myself a bit more of an igtheist (the definition of god is incoherent and too vague for language to even approximate - let alone accurately describe) but I'd probably just use the term atheist for the sake of an average conversation. 2. Why would I be interested in creating space in the church for the queer community? I'm not particularly interested in enforcing my intellectual propositions to everyone I meet. Whether inside or outside of religion, I want to live in a world in which people can be queer without shame, guilt, or discrimination. Religion is such an intellectually flawed and incoherent concept that for anyone to use it as a tool of discrimination because 'god told them so' is perhaps the most asinine proposition in life. 3. What do I propose the world should look like? I think that's a great question - and one that can only truly be had once we throw dogma out the window. I have plenty of my own takes on the world, but I'm a 22 year old who's not a psychologist, sociologist, therapist, or any qualifications. All to say, I'm interested in fighting catholic fundamentalism - and whether you stay in a religion or leave all together like me, it doesn't bother me much.
Good for you my friend. I'm happy you finally realized the error of thinking there is a supernatural being that disproves of your orientation. Why would a supposed deity reject some one based on their orientation? it's ridiculous. Welcome back to reality.
If Father Jordan wants to stay a priest I’m sure the episcopal church would take him in. They are very open and accepting of the LGBT community. Their priest can also get married:) not episcopal just a recommendation
Yes, Jordan's in a stage of figuring out what he wants to do in life, and it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up in the Episcopal or smoother affirming denomination. he truly has the heart of a pastor
This might be a long-shot, but for your podcast, you might want to talk to ‘Père Matthieu’ - a French priest who was super influential online and got disavowed by the Catholic Church partly because of his affirming beliefs, and was also abused etc- though I don’t know if you’re interested in doing more international interviews and whether he speaks English fluently. He did a great interview at Hugo Decrypte’s chanel which has English subtitles. Just a thought. Nice video!
@@GayExTradanother good idea given your unique background might be to make like a video essay kind of thing on how young men are radicalised by ‘Catholic’ influencers (trent horn, but also more extreme ones like Fuentes) and the whole radtrad subculture on Twitter. Thanks for your work :)
@@GayExTrad It might also get you to reach a much bigger audience, because especially in light of the election results there's a lot of interest on the Left in discovering how the left 'lost' young men, why they are becoming more socially conservative etc etc. I think the influence of religion is definitely a part of it- that they're using religion more as an aesthetic or sword with which they can express reactionary attitudes, especially online- thats been under-appreciated. I don't know your politics though, so I do respect it if you want to restrict your content focus to Catholicism and sexuality. Good luck!
This sappy story has huge holes in it and it's simply not credible. It's a fantasy tale, written by a "content creator" in the genre of ecclesiastical fiction, recounting things that couldn't have possibly taken place as narrated. Don't fall for it.
What were the specifics of Father Jordan's assault? Why do you bring that up and not tell us the specifics? Sloppy journalism. You know, when Pope Francis was first appointed, I thought maybe there would be some real change in the church. In one of his first interviews he was asked about the subject of homosexuality and he said, "Who am I to judge the way someone loves?" He was also asked what were the two most pressing problems in the world today, and he said, "The loneliness of the old and the joblessness of the young." He also called capitalism a true evil, which I could understand immediately since when he was a young seminarian he was exposed to the ideas of "liberation theology" as it was developed in Latin America.. But then, through the years he was beaten down by the corrupting bureaucracy in Rome and he's pretty much like any of them now: hypocrites.
I purposely left out details to protect Father Jordan’s identity - you’re welcome to think whatever you’d like about his story - I’m just sharing Jordan’s story
It's such an ugly and shameful thing that you used that priest's experience to attack his God and his Church for whom he sacrificed himself since he was a little kid.
The only person who is doing the attacking here is you. As a former Catholic myself, I left the church because of the hypocrites, blind fools, the venomous snakes, the scapegoaters, and the revilers. God isn't the problem just those playing God.
It’s such an ugly thing that you would take offense at a single video and not the abuse that a priest experienced at the hands of those represent your god and your church for whom he sacrificed himself since he was a little kid.
To listen to this interview and others, search 'Intrinsically Ordered' on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, RUclips, etc. (@intrinsicallyordered).
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You're doing such important work creating a supportive community, thank you. It does get better.
🙏🙏 so glad to have you in the community, John! It really does get better - that like needs to be out new motto - so important to remember in the tough times
John!
I'm sorry that the Catholic Church made things so hard. I have a friend who was a Catholic, she said that she knew heterosexual priests who left , bc when they really got honest with themselves, they needed to be married. So they left the priesthood.
indeeeed
Celibacy is a discipline not a Doctrine. One can choose to stat single whether he's a priest or layman. Of course there are many rites in our Church, some allowed married men to become priest.
@@calson814 all the priests have to make three vows, one of them is chastity. To Catholic, celibacy already includes in the religious vocation. Married men are allowed only after their wives are dead - but when you show your interest, they would reject you by saying that you are too old to be a priest now
This video gave me so much hope as a gay ex-catholic. Many of us I'm sure have felt that we would be totally isolated and unsupported if we made the leap to leave the church. I find this story of solidarity so touching!
So glad you enjoyed Jordan's story!
I was a Baptist Pastor and overseas missionary. I was married to my very accepting wife. I resigned because I am gay, medically proven. I resigned and we returned home. I was told I am not welcome to even attend church because I am gay. I cared for my wife with MS for 26 years before she passed in 2022. I thanked her for accepting me as her gay husband and she said "Of course. That was easy. Why wouldn't I?" Amazing lady. Both my kids are very accepting, which is great. I occasionally attend a gay friendly church called Metropolitan Community Church, but I'm not a member. After returning home I studied accounting part time and worked for a large mining company for 26 years. I have now retired and I live alone. Long journey. BTW I totally support Same Sex Marriage.
Wow, Ron, that is such a touching story - thank you so much for sharing! I’m so sorry to hear what you went through. Your wife sounds like a wonderful lady and made the world a brighter place. Wishing you the best in your journey, Ron 🙏🙏
@@ronsmith2241 I am gay but I can't understand why gay husband can have his own children? I want to understand this mystery but I can't find any a way to know
Really beautiful that Fr. Jordan had so much support from y’all. I know one of the fears leaving is that no one will be there to support you because you’ve left the role and the “brotherhood.” It’s important to remember that community and true friendship can exist even outside of the Church. Thanks for sharing this with us.
Exactly - we need to do a better job of intentionally building those spaces to have community after leaving
@@GayExTradcan you please create a gofundme for this guy so we can donate money to help get him on his feet?
Intentional communities are incredibly helpful. Here is hoping everyone finds where they feel at home.
Say it louder for folks in the back 🗣️
Thank you so much for what you're doing man. I've been out for a few years at this point, but this would have been exactly what I needed while in the closet. Keep it up. If you can have an episode about relating (as a queer person) with family or close friends who are still in the trad- Catholic community, that would be so awesome.
Great idea! I’ll def do an episode on my second channel/podcast about that
This was such a beautiful act of solidarity with this man. I am so grateful his entire parish loved him so much and were not afraid to show it. That will always sing in him more than the sad sounds of the pathetic bishop and sketchy fellow priests. To separate oneself from this 'god filtering' organization and maintain dignity takes so much courage. The work of the Holy Spirit shines all the more in men like this, and the men who showed up to be there with him. Bravo, Cade!
We'll have to have you on the next trip, Shawn!
Thank you. Love your style and your speaking voice. Enjoy your life.
Thank you so much!
I was asked to leave the seminary after opening up to my seminary formators about my struggles with same sex attraction. Up until that point, I had been a “stellar” seminarian with so much promise. I was loved and admired by everyone and often used as a reference point for what a good seminarian should be. Suddenly, I became the devil incarnate.
Leaving the seminary was a very painful time, the worst experience of my life. I had always wanted to be a priest from when I was a young child. Love for God and his church consumed me with a dangerous passion. And believe me, from the time I discovered my attraction to the same sex at age 8 or 9, I had been fighting my “weakness” with prayer, fasting, tears, novenas and retreats - all to no avail.
When I was asked to leave the seminary, I did not only feel let down by the priests I had opened up to, I felt betrayed by God for whom I felt I had given up so much, even my personal happiness. One of my formators told me, “better a promiscuous straight priest than a celibate gay one.” I was so broken. I invoked Canon Law and the council documents of Vatican 2 to argue reasons I shouldn’t be asked to leave the seminary. I was told by one of my formators the church isn’t a court of law and that they took decisions by the Holy Spirit. I was further told that my desperation to remain in the seminary was a clear demonstration that I hadn’t truly been called by God. In that moment, my one prayer to God was to help me not lose my faith because of everything that was happening. And I held on for one year after that. But the pain, anger and bitterness wouldn’t go.
I was torn between love for God and the church, and love for myself. God and his church required me to view myself as abnormal and hate myself for a sexual orientation I had come to learn I really had no control over. And believe me, I was willing to hate myself if that was all that stood in the way of serving God as his priest. Being a strong willed person all my life, I was determined to never act on my tendencies. But even that was not good enough for my formators.
In the end, after falling into depression and anguish, I chose myself. I wouldn’t come out formally. But I decided to stop viewing myself as abnormal and my orientation as a problem. I decided to embrace and love who I was and what I was. But I couldn’t reconcile my faith with this decision. Everything I had been taught screamed I was on the side of evil for accepting myself. I couldn’t bring myself anymore to believe that God existed. It made no sense to me.
An absolutely good God will not inflict this weakness on me, even after I had begged him for years to take it away from me, and then through his Holy Spirit, direct my formators to kick me out of the seminary after I opened up to them about this weakness in good faith. I could not accept myself while believing in the existence of such a God. That would have been hypocrisy and double standards. So I gave up my faith.
It hasn’t been a walk in the park since then. I used to be filled with so much anger and hate just at the mention of God or the church. I knew this was wrong and I didn’t want that in my heart. I have worked to switch that emotion to indifference. And when I miss those hymns or psalms or prayers I used to love so much, I allow myself to sing and recite them without making anything of it. I know it’ll take a long while but I’ll be patient.
I wouldn’t wish what I went through on anyone. And I am glad, as I have come to learn, that others in my position are receiving support from some within the church and in their communities.
Wow, man! I'm so sorry to hear you went through all of that - but it's sounds like your healing/rebuilding your life now. I find it such a tragedy that the church makes us choose between our dreams and our identities. I'd love to have you on the podcast sometime, if you're interested! Regardless, wishing you the best on your journey, homie!
Man, do I feel for you. I did not leave the Church on account of being gay but rather out of disgust at the novus ordo mass. I simply walked out in the middle of Easter service (1977). No, I was not fussing over ad orientem or the omission of this or that preface. I walked out because I felt I was witnessing a husk without spiritual substance. (And yes... the priest WAS wearing K-Mart sandals...)
When I did come out, four years later, I had to reject all of Christianity, in fact all of everything. It was a rough night. What triggered the crisis was Kant's pronouncement that crimina carnis contra naturam was "the most abominable conduct of which man can be guilty" more "nauseating" than suicide. You fucking bastard! I shouted and threw the book against the wall. I thought I would loose my mind and rushed out the door for a very long walk, at the end of which I declared my absolute freedom from anyone or anything and all conceptions. I even left the Episcopal Church which had been very warm and helpful to me. No more. None of it! If God wanted to call me up, I was here; but I was not playing His games anymore. No more crying into my pillow and telling myself that He didn't answer because I wasn't sincere enough... or whatever. Nihil in mente nisi prius in sensu... and so I embarked on looking for love in the gutter.
The "gay community" was not that welcoming. In fact it was downright abusive toward itself and others. I met some great guys in the worst of places and (may they rest in peace) they became the best of friends. But the "gay community" as such was suffering the effects of sudden release after years of societal persecution and abuse. It is far, far better today simply because society as a whole is more accepting and that allows for a certain normalcy in queer behavior.
Like you I was "filled with so much anger and hate just at the mention of [the Abrahamic] God or the church." But, for me, there was one problem: Bach. I argued with a friend that Bach would still have been possible without Christianity. It didn't work. Bach is not possible without Jesus and to listen to Bach is to join with him prayer. (And heretical Lutheran prayer at that!!)
Do, absolutely do, allow yourself to sing the hymns and psalms you love. And do so especially "without making anything of it." The whole problem with "the Word" is not hearing it but thinking about it. :) I'm so glad to hear you say this because I'm certain it is the path for you.
I don't in the least minimize the abuse that was done to you. I will remember that the next time I feel like puking when I see a bunch of cardinals processing around... The Church goes out of its way to hurt and destroy people. That said, I think that with time you will recover some equanimity about the better angels of the Church in history and in people's lives
My heartfelt good wishes to you.
This community and former father Jordan’s story give so much hope. Things get better.
Things get better 🙏🙏
We have similar problems with homophobia in Buddhism (in all schools of Buddhism). However, we do not have the “inalterable word of god” bugbear that turns decent people into lunatics. We are actively changing perceptions. Where scriptures say horrendous things, we point them out as horrendous things. Even in the traditionalist Theravada tradition, several schools of which have recently begun ordaining female monks. Thank you for sharing your journey with us. I have enjoyed watching your vids very much. Namo Buddhaya, love from Taiwan.
That's awesome that Buddhism is able to update/evolve as we learn new things! Now we just gotta get the christians to do the same, haha
@@GayExTrad We have a very famous nun here in Taiwan, of the Mahayana tradition. She is very active in her support of the LGBTQ community. During a news conference (just before they legalized marriage equality) she was reprimanded on national TV for her support. Her opponent asked her how she, as a Buddhist, could go against traditional family values and the Confucianist traditions of China. She responded with something like this, “My good sir, you need to decide, are you a Taoist or a Buddhist? In Buddhism there is no question of ‘my’ family or ‘your’ family and ‘our family values’. We are all family. I am sure that sometime or other you were once my daughter, and I feel certain I raised you to know better.”
@@GayExTradI have had many discussions with visiting Christians who come to Taiwan to collect converts. It has taken all my patience to remain calm. The things they say! What really horrifies me is that they are so used to saying horrifying things that they don’t seem to know how horrifying it is. They expect you not to be shocked. I suppose in the west it is considered normal. I have lived and studied in the west before and I remember having to hide my instinctive revulsion at the things Christians would say about LGBTQ people. You have to keep a straight face so that they don’t detect your shock. We have homophobia too, but we do not have the extreme cruelty that seems to be a Christian addition to the toxic mix.
As a gay Buddhist, who studied with a lesbian monk in LA, I Agee totally
Wisdom
A priest that’s leaving to pursue a gay lifestyle made the right decision.
Anyone that decides to stop believing in supernatural nonsense is the right choice.
There is a similar problem with Jehovah’s Witnesses and some other churches. For example, with Jehovah’s Witnesses, the headquarters is run by people working full-time, but working as volunteers. No one is paid. This can be a struggle for those who want to stop working there because they want to leave Jehovah’s Witnesses entirely due to losing their Jehovah’s Witness beliefs. How does someone just walk out the door and start with nothing? Perhaps one thing to focus on is how to take the steps of leaving, whether that's Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Catholic priesthood, or whatever, so that the person leaving can be self-supporting and not walking into despair?
Love that idea - it’s such a huge challenge when people are truly stuck in a cult/their livelihood relies on a set of beliefs
You have a great way of articulating things that I can only "feel". I can in some ways identify with you in that I too was in the seminary for four years and under vows for one year. I was miserable and felt like a hypocrite. I had to leave and yet I was very conflicted in being myself. I did everything that I could think of to become "straight", but nothing worked. The last time I went to confession I was told that Jesus "can't" forgive me for what I am, and my immediate thought was "then what in the hell am I wasting my time here for "?? Even today, I doubt the existence of god. I discovered only a handful of years ago that I have apparently a heterosexual female brain that is trapped in a male body. What kind of a "kind and loving" god would do that to a person ?? Your video presentations are most welcomed because they give solidity to what I could only feel. Thank You so much.
Wow, thank you for the kind words! I’m so happy to hear you made it out too!!
What if you have a female thinking, male brain that works perfectly as God intended? In Nature, God made everything perfect and perfectly balanced. I don’t believe God makes mistakes. Did you know in the original Hebrew Bible before it was translated, it said that a man isn’t to lie with an adolescent boy as he does his spouse? The Hebrew word used for adolescent boy was made into man because there wasn’t a word for homosexuality back then and by this time that it was translated into the KJV Bible, it was frowned upon for men to sleep with these adolescent boys as they used to do. In Biblical days, older men did this to “teach younger boys how to be $exually active with their partners once they were married. Once this was translated into “a man shall not lie with another man,” gay people were immediately ostracized as sinners and abominations, which wasn’t the original teachings of Christ. It’s crazy how people believe this lie instead of looking at it from the time that it was written. I learned this in college when I took Old Testament History at a Baptist College of all places. This really opened my eyes to how many other things are possibly misinterpreted AND how many gay/queer people have taken their lives because they had been told that God never made them gay so they’d be damned for hell. God is love that is beyond a humans understanding and you are made in the eyes of God, perfectly crafted. You have a purpose and God knew your heart before you were born. The fact of all the sperm that tried to get into the egg inside your mother during fertilization, was the one sperm that was needed to create the other half for your very existence to be here today, in itself is a miracle. This life is a gift and it goes by quickly-enjoy it while you have it and I hope you experience all the love you can along the way.🤗
PS. If everything was black and white (heterosexual males and females only), everything else is a lifestyle/choice, then how do heterosexual people explain those that are intersex, having both sets of genitals? You see, there’s more than we understand but I know being gay/queer isn’t a mistake, whether it’s to help population control or be the link needed in every family to help be the “glue” that holds it together, I don’t know. I do know though that you are perfectly made so don’t listen to anything other than that and teach those that are willing to learn.
new video this is so exciting
So happy to be posting more!
@@GayExTrad the videos are the highlight of my day it's so lovely
Wonderful video (as well as your others). I can identify with much of this priest's story. I was a priest in a religious community. I left after 20+ years of priesthood as well and had to start from basically nothing. (I was fortunate that my community did support me with some "start up" costs in my new life, like paying me for household goods.). What my community put me through to "help" me in my "discernment" (after being discovered using a gay-related web site) was horrible, but over time, I managed to use their fear-driven response for my own good. It does get better, but the scars of trauma never completely disappear.
Unlike your journey, my young gay ex-trad, I have maintained a faith in God, Jesus, and even the Church. I had had a close relationship with Jesus well, well before even entering the seminary, and the Church I have come to see is just plain wrong about its approach to sexual morality. Its premises and conclusions are outdated, and harmful, as you have pointed out in other videos you have produced. Nevertheless, the Church still is my greatest channel for "sacramentality" (i.e., how God's presence is mediated in my experience). Thankfully, here in the Chicago archdiocese there is a wonderful ministry called AGLO for LGBT+ Catholics. You should check it out.
Thanks for sharing - I'm glad you found something that worked for you!
terrific and compassionate and wise. Thank you 🙏
🙏
@ also I’m far a older than you and find how much you’ve put together amazing. You are very thoughtful and I feel you may benefit many. A happy and productive life to you 🙏💛
Tortured Catholic
I enter in the church
I haven’t been so long,
still wounded by the priest
who taught me right and wrong.
Yet I miss the votive lights,
the red and white,
lit by loving hands,
winking welcome, and
the ancient smell of incense
like a lingering lost friend
calling me home again.
The strong worn walnut pews,
complaining now of bodies sat
so many years now worn and bruised-
reminds me of the hours in prayer
so fervent from a sinner who has erred.
O how I miss the head-crowned
saints upon their pedestals,
arms outstretched with lacquered lips
with eyes arranged celestial.
Dear Jesus on the cross impaled,
the bloody head, the hands hard nailed,
the chanted tunes, the manger nest,
Puer natus est.
The genuflection, sine reflection,
the crossing gesture done in haste,
the mumbled prayers so pointless said,
the cross that’s carved upon the head.
The wafer placed upon the tongue,
the old familiar hymns oft sung.
O how I miss the thoughtless rites,
the chasubles and surplice whites,
the wasted words in homily,
true sign of real humility.
The bishop’s ring, the bowing thing,
the stance before the habit awe,
from me now bitter flavor draw.
And nuns, a species most confusing,
a strain of women so amusing.
The scapulars, the rosaries,
the holy water, mocked up miracles,
the sightings of the Virgin blesst,
the baby suckling on her breast.
Confessing sin that soon surrounds
and penetrates the soul,
the priest forgives by penance gives
does often take its toll.
A strangling, claustrophobic rite
that chains you to the church so tight
with shame and guilt, and
binds you to the wrong and right.
The papal chair which oft abuses,
censors, cancels and refuses.
Now how this nonsense
penetrated deep,
disturbed my wakefulness and even sleep.
O where, O where is Jesus,
in all this posturing,
the Spirit worship and the Truth?
I deem I only miss the shallow shell
that mesmerized my youth.
Wow - that's beautiful! Could I read that to camera as a short-form video?
I am a Catholic. I served the church in the capacity of a choir and a musician. I was born a Catholic - so I feel that I can tell an honest take on my personal opinion.
The Catholic church is superbly bad in dealing with contemporary issues. Sometimes I wonder if the Catholic teaching is really applicable in the real, real life. Things such as priest sexual abuse (the best example) is not discussed at all in the community level. We will instead be asked to focus on our relationship with God, or we will be encouraged to join seminars/workshop on the Holy Spirit. Which is FINE. But be ready if you want support when it comes to LGBT issues, or when you want to debate about celibacy among priests or whether they should be allowed to be married.
As for the priest in this video - I would say that what had happened is the best thing that happened to him.
He has left an organization that did not value and support him just because his values don't align. In fact - living as a Catholic, most things are just either Black or White - no shades of grey. Yes or No. He can still serve the people, he can still serve Him - even if not under the dictation of The Catholic Church.
Great thoughts! Yeah, I think both the reason people are attracted to the church and also the reason most people end up leaving is that black and white thinking. But for many who were born into it, they ca find that gray space.
You hit the nail on the head. I love the Catholic Church and cherished it for many years, yet that which I love so much is the source of my self-hatred.
I have a God-shaped hole in my heart and nothing to fill it. What do I do now?
I can emphasize with you. I feel the same.
We all have our own journey. I found worshiping with affirming community so helpful. They are Protestant so it's also been like hundreds of years of history playing out in my head. I started by looking for a community that celebrates same-sex marriage.
I can't recommending find a good therapist enough! I don't think you have a god-shaped hole in your heart - I think you've come to rely on and be pressed by catholic brainwashing. It takes time, but you can be free of it and live a wonderful life
If you are not one of the bishop's pets, forget it.
That’s what I’ve heard …
@@GayExTrad it is the truth. and some bishops have pets who are the pretty boys.
To have authentic life is the most important. Not only sex orientation, but also you turned yourself to be hypocrite when you chose religious life. You must take collective action, your fellows move then you can move. As for me, lose personality means you are not yourself any more, what is the good to save other people if you lost yourself??
I love that 'what is the good to save other people if you lost yourself' - that's exactly what he's going through
I used to be very fond of the Mass, something I attended daily from my high school days and through university. I have dropped in on them, now and then, over the years. The homily is usually pretty bad, something hateful in one way or another, and reminds me of why I left. I did not leave for being gay. I left because I could not accept the metaphysics, the conception of God, all of which struck me as logically impossible and inconsistent with my actual experience.
Yessss - homilies always find a way to say something completely unhinged
You are the test of the Lord that the Church is failing.
how do you mean?
If your Lord is using gay people as a group experiment… are you sure you should be so eager to worship him?
rigid faith shatters and then can never be put back together 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
🙏🙏
I have had the pleasure of listening to three of your podcasts. You are very well spoken. Metropolitan Community Churches (LGBTQ) can use your talents and skill sets. To me, this congregation has roots in Catholicism. I was raised Southern Baptist and still felt welcomed. Please continue sharing your gift.
Thank you so much for the kind words! Hopefully we can all make a difference fighting against christian fundamentalism/homophobia from both inside and outside of christianity :)
We have choices to make in life. Every choice we choose has a consequence we have to carry on. It's sad story but we can't blame on the Church on this issue.
Absolutely can blame the church and god for this
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
COGS and overheads severely hamper profit
So, I'm just wondering, a lot that you've talked about has good insight, but do you still believe in any of it, not from just the a human standpoint that we can find some good in anything, but from the other side. Do you believe there is a God, as descriped in the book, either in whole or in part? Also, if the church on face valve rejects the gay community, why even argue the need to be apart of it at all? As I mentioned, you make good points about what the church is not being completely clear on the topic of homosexuality in the church (really good points), but have you done a video on what should the gay community look like in or outside the church? Example, Some have made the point that marriage is not necessary for intimate relationships as long as they are committed to each other, but gave no details on how that works in a community. Not saying this is your intention, but it's a lot easier to show people when something is not working right, verses, how it should work or look. So, in my head, if there is no God, or if the bible is not his tool to communicate to his creation, than why make the argument at all, and just focus on what the gay community should look like, because it is differently struggling with a number community issues, which is not hard to see.
@@edwardstewart4430 the purpose of this community is to help people who are trapped in a church that actively hates them. I wish I had come across this channel or something like it when I was in high school and decided to throw the prime years of my life away on a church that hates me and teaches me to hate myself. It’s about calling out the evil that the church perpetuates in the world and giving hope to LGBTQ+ people stuck in the Catholic Church, fundamentalist evangelical churches or any religion that teaches that homosexuality is an abomination. It’s about realizing that if there is a God, he made you as you are and there is nothing wrong with you. Your love isn’t a sin. Your love isn’t disordered. This is an extremely important message for those trapped in an institution that teaches such harmful beliefs.
Happy to give a brief reply - I've been meaning to make a video precisely about this.
1. Do I supernaturally believe in God (i.e a divine entity that exists apart from humans)? No. I fashion myself a bit more of an igtheist (the definition of god is incoherent and too vague for language to even approximate - let alone accurately describe) but I'd probably just use the term atheist for the sake of an average conversation.
2. Why would I be interested in creating space in the church for the queer community? I'm not particularly interested in enforcing my intellectual propositions to everyone I meet. Whether inside or outside of religion, I want to live in a world in which people can be queer without shame, guilt, or discrimination. Religion is such an intellectually flawed and incoherent concept that for anyone to use it as a tool of discrimination because 'god told them so' is perhaps the most asinine proposition in life.
3. What do I propose the world should look like? I think that's a great question - and one that can only truly be had once we throw dogma out the window. I have plenty of my own takes on the world, but I'm a 22 year old who's not a psychologist, sociologist, therapist, or any qualifications.
All to say, I'm interested in fighting catholic fundamentalism - and whether you stay in a religion or leave all together like me, it doesn't bother me much.
Jesus is real. He transformed my life, and became to love of my life
Good for you my friend. I'm happy you finally realized the error of thinking there is a supernatural being that disproves of your orientation. Why would a supposed deity reject some one based on their orientation? it's ridiculous. Welcome back to reality.
If Father Jordan wants to stay a priest I’m sure the episcopal church would take him in. They are very open and accepting of the LGBT community. Their priest can also get married:) not episcopal just a recommendation
Yes, Jordan's in a stage of figuring out what he wants to do in life, and it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up in the Episcopal or smoother affirming denomination. he truly has the heart of a pastor
This might be a long-shot, but for your podcast, you might want to talk to ‘Père Matthieu’ - a French priest who was super influential online and got disavowed by the Catholic Church partly because of his affirming beliefs, and was also abused etc- though I don’t know if you’re interested in doing more international interviews and whether he speaks English fluently. He did a great interview at Hugo Decrypte’s chanel which has English subtitles. Just a thought. Nice video!
Thanks for the suggestion - I'll def take a look!
@@GayExTradanother good idea given your unique background might be to make like a video essay kind of thing on how young men are radicalised by ‘Catholic’ influencers (trent horn, but also more extreme ones like Fuentes) and the whole radtrad subculture on Twitter. Thanks for your work :)
@@RationalistMH love that idea
@@GayExTrad It might also get you to reach a much bigger audience, because especially in light of the election results there's a lot of interest on the Left in discovering how the left 'lost' young men, why they are becoming more socially conservative etc etc. I think the influence of religion is definitely a part of it- that they're using religion more as an aesthetic or sword with which they can express reactionary attitudes, especially online- thats been under-appreciated. I don't know your politics though, so I do respect it if you want to restrict your content focus to Catholicism and sexuality. Good luck!
This story is like a microcosm expressing in a pre-official way the to-be apostolate of the Coming Out Network. (Catch my drift?)
Love it - let's chat more about it!
I do. You are saying you're frightened of anyone that opposes your life choices.
“Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.” Make sure that “…enemy you are fighting …”isn’t God.
✍️
Why do you think god is real?
Love your videos. I love being Catholic but cant stand the trad movement. Such toxic people
The trade ruin it for everyone! So many normal, amazing Catholics out thrrr
This sappy story has huge holes in it and it's simply not credible. It's a fantasy tale, written by a "content creator" in the genre of ecclesiastical fiction, recounting things that couldn't have possibly taken place as narrated. Don't fall for it.
How I wish I can talk to you
hop on my discord and shoot me a friend request
Good move
indeed
Oh my ... That's a cute guy ...
What were the specifics of Father Jordan's assault? Why do you bring that up and not tell us the specifics? Sloppy journalism. You know, when Pope Francis was first appointed, I thought maybe there would be some real change in the church. In one of his first interviews he was asked about the subject of homosexuality and he said, "Who am I to judge the way someone loves?" He was also asked what were the two most pressing problems in the world today, and he said, "The loneliness of the old and the joblessness of the young." He also called capitalism a true evil, which I could understand immediately since when he was a young seminarian he was exposed to the ideas of "liberation theology" as it was developed in Latin America.. But then, through the years he was beaten down by the corrupting bureaucracy in Rome and he's pretty much like any of them now: hypocrites.
I purposely left out details to protect Father Jordan’s identity - you’re welcome to think whatever you’d like about his story - I’m just sharing Jordan’s story
@@GayExTrad What did you think about remarks about the Pope?
It's such an ugly and shameful thing that you used that priest's experience to attack his God and his Church for whom he sacrificed himself since he was a little kid.
If you don’t like his content, stop commenting under his videos. Its a free country and no one has to appease your little fragile sensibilities.
Jordan read my script beforehand and gave permission to post - if you don't like my views, that's okay
The only person who is doing the attacking here is you. As a former Catholic myself, I left the church because of the hypocrites, blind fools, the venomous snakes, the scapegoaters, and the revilers. God isn't the problem just those playing God.
It’s such an ugly thing that you would take offense at a single video and not the abuse that a priest experienced at the hands of those represent your god and your church for whom he sacrificed himself since he was a little kid.
These posts show that both sides need to better understand the other.