It's ok to be left-handed, or left hand use attracted, as long as you don't actually do left hand actions. This is how the Christian argument against homosexuality sounds to me now.
Such a clever, wise and actually quite laugh out loud argument! Most Christian leaders are so UNBASED on this topic as to be RIDICULOUS/RISIBLE! It's not us doing to them it's them doing it to themselves!
Good for you for making your escape. I was not Catholic but was brought up in the church. LONG before I figured out I'm gay, I figured out that organized religion was pretty evil and the source of most conflict/evil. So, at age 13, I escaped. Best wishes to you.
Yup - and he's not just in the cult, he's head of 'keeping the thought-crimers in-line.' I have the script for my next video complete and should have it up in a week or two
"He did make many many well-endowed twinks. Thank you Father God!" Damn, I think I have a good idea of who Cade might be dating lol😜 Love your videos and your channel! Can't wait to see it grow even more!
I had people pray the "your a beloved son of the father" bit from isiah over me at a retreat once after opening up about a guy I had fallen in love with and I didn't even realize there was a double meaning to that phrase until six months later. The disgust and trust issues were tough to wrestle with.
I love how Jason Evert won't even consider the possibility of the Catholic Church changing its sexual ethics. News flash Jason - the Church has changed on so many issues already: slavery, the death penalty, cremation. The Church is always just a few decades behind. But Jason literally can't even bring himself to consider this as a possibility.
I always find the 'join the Catholic Church because we all agree theology and can infallibly know the truth' arguments so interesting. Catholic teaching has changes so much on sexuality, abortion, sacraments, eschatology, soteriology, and nearly every other aspect of life, but every says 'what we have right now is finally the truth and has always been taught' - which just isn't true
@@GayExTrad Jason Evert is intellectually compromised who prioritizes the culture war and conservatism over Catholic theology. The Church teaching on homosexuality is relatively narrow, all sex outside of marriage is bad, marriage is only between a man and a woman, therefore all gay sex is bad. Also since gay sex is bad, desiring gay sex is desiring something that is bad (that is really all the intrinsically disordered bit means). There is no Church teaching saying you can't date the same sex, or form durable romantic relationships. Eve Tushnet is a lesbian and practising Catholic with a partner, who is a Catholic speaker, and makes reactionary Catholics furious, because they disagree with her, but can't actually show she is a heretic, because she actually adheres to Catholic teaching. Reviewing her books might make interesting content. Theologically the Church is already pivoting, the 2021 CDF dubium response to same sex unions for example carefully specified "For this reason, it is not licit to impart a blessing on relationships, or partnerships, even stable, that involve sexual activity outside of marriage (i.e., outside the indissoluble union of a man and a woman open in itself to the transmission of life), as is the case of the unions between persons of the same sex[6]." which by its very qualification opens the door to such blessing same sex relationships that don't involve sex. Chris Damian has written on this topic in more detail.
This! - the flipping Pope has said that civil marriage and given us some kind of half way old Latin American man compromise blessing. The teaching literally is struggling towards change on this one as we speak
Simply watch his two videos responding to Fiducia Supplicans. I really thought he would really understand the heart of it but not even that he could. He fell into the same culture war apologetic nonsense. I even had a small debate with him on the comments on those videos.
Here is the thing there is no need to give up you can be gay have a boyfriend get married and still have a relationship with God and Mother Mary eventually the traditional Catholics will have to realize they are delusional on this topic. The early church has civil union marriages in Syrian with two Saints a catholic scholar wrote a book on this many years ago but the church has his this from us.
Wow! I’m so glad I found this channel. I’m 49, I started transitioning 6 months ago (FTM) and I’ve spent decades trying to fit in the Church. It’s never been successful for me. I’m glad someone is talking about the Church’s treatment of LGBTQ people
Oh my gosh literally me too. I switched to the Episcopal Church during lent. I'm able to carry pretty much every single thing I loved about being Catholic, sacraments and liturgy the hours and all, and leave the shame behind at the door.
@@MyehMyeh97 Yeah, that would make sense if you wanted a less conservative version of that. Whatever changes people make, like computers you don't want a program that destroys the hardware it runs on.
At my catholic church and school we had a whole bunch of " flamboyant " priests and brothers and butch looking and acting nuns and yet no one could ever seem to put 2 and 2 together. Denial is one heck of a drug
@@GayExTradYeah, when I look at him I see the eyes of someone who’s very scared and angry. He even looks combative in the thumbnail. His body language.
It's true of most Christian's. Not just the social media personalities. After all you'll probably loosen a few screws with the idea that one mistake, ranging from eating pork or shellfish, or wearing mixed fabrics, will send you to an eternal lake of fire. Oh, wait that's the OT, which Christians never follow. I guess we'll have to ask if Jesus's admonition to not look at a woman with lust applies to attractive men? Also, should you do that, you are encouraged to cut your junk off. It's not like there's a ton of blood vessels and nerves there. Oh, wait, we have modern medicine and so can knock you out. Weird that Jesus didn't give that to the Israelites, what with encouraging major surgeries. But he cured one person of leprosey!
love this takedown; I've heard many of these arguments from Catholic friends of mine urging me to stay in the Church and be closeted (in my case in two ways); the same kind of ideas and even more come up when discussing trans rights with these types, and it's NOT fun! I'm not nearly as good at debating as you or I'd think about posting videos dissecting transphobia from these popular Catholic accounts, would be a fun thing to watch!
@@GayExTrad I mean, my one friend who keeps telling me not to transition sent me the Schmitz video on transness once but you've already done one of his vids so I get not wanting to do that if you'd rather not. Catholic Answers channel has some short, pretty bad videos that are ripe for responding to on this, esp the one with a Fr Vincent?
Yeah. Let's weigh options, no or other religions or constant insults. When they try to sell you on "what if you're wrong" just repeat it back and ask for hard evidence. They got nothin.
I used to be exactly the type of catholic teen with same sex attraction who was so inspired by Jason Evert, like I thought he was the perfect balance of "truth & love", until I was so disappointed by his reaction to Fiducia Supplicans. By the way you should do a video commenting on Pope Francis and Fiducia Supplicans.
@@GayExTrad I'm sorry when you talk about teleology do you mean "purpose"? How is that vacuous? It seems pretty obvious that if God exists then he gave everyone a purpose or telos, even if we may not know what it is exactly
I am just cracking up over your reactions in this video😂 My parents used to make me listen to all the chastity talks from the Everts when I was younger, so this video was extra vindicating for me haha. Side note though: in future videos would you perhaps consider changing the music or making it quieter? It is kinda drowning out the speaking a bit😅
But all of the trendy people having obnoxious background music, haha. (I tend to make background music way too loud lol). Yeah, Jason is what most catholics are baby fed - he only seems smart if you're raised on him, otherwise, he just sounds insane
Some of these sayings have a really weird history that goes back to the 70s apparently. Theres a documentary on netflix about "Pray Away the Gay" and a group called Exodus where "recovered" "exgay" "born again" christians would go around the country speaking about how homosexuality was like an illness that could be overcome by dealing with various issues with your past. One of their premises was that a "father wound" would lead to sinful behavior and they would try to connect it with scripture passages.
@@GayExTrad and yet catholic speakers will still prop up people that follow this bit. 😭. It’s always the same story. “I broke up with my gay partner and then all my catholic shame bubbled up and I decided mommy and daddy were right all along and now I’m cured”
I really appreciate your emphasis on civil rights for LGBTQ+ people. Many American Catholics think the Church affirms that but the reality is the Church has a very limited view of what rights should be accorded. For example, in the recent document Dignitas Infinitas, it should be noted in section 55 that while it condemns imprisonment for sexual *orientation*, it fails to condemn imprisonment for "homosexual acts." This is precisely the distinction and justification some African Catholic Bishops' Conferenes give when they support draconian laws against LGBTQ+ and the Vatican tolerates this. The Vatican's consistent use of "*unjust* discrimination" in this regard only feeds the idea that some discrimination is acceptable. The Church has gone on record saying the discrimination of homosexuals in education, housing, and employment can be *just*. Also, the USCCB issued a formal statement in 2003 opposing the overturning of Lawrence v Texas by the US Supreme Court which nullified anti-sodomy laws in the US. This needs to be remembered whenever Church officials repeat the "unjust discrimination" phrase in public statements. They should be asked what would be *just* discrimination? Would punishment for homosexual *acts* be permissible?
Exactly! Yeah, I've always seen the term 'unjust discrimination' as an oxymoron and a vacuous term - it's never defined, never employed against any discrimination, and is just used as a 'we're not terrible with this.' Nobody would say we're only against unjust racism, unless they think some racism is okay.
For me, the purpose of these talks is to package the Church's teaching on homosexuality/help people who don't know much understand why, not as much of an apologetic/strict defense of the catholic teaching on homosexuality
So I've got a hot take which I'm sure will upset everyone: society has strayed far off from an understanding that the purpose/utility of marriage is child-rearing, not about love. As such, arguments for marriage equality based on "love is love" are not appropriate. This is something that many more conservative-minded folk would agree with me about, and often these people will bring up how expanding marriage to gays has polluted the "sanctity" of marriage. It is at this point that I argue that it was the greater society's forgetting of the utility of marriage that allowed for gay marriage, not the other way around. So far it seems that my "hot take" only really would upset someone who is more liberal/progressive, but taking it to its logical conclusion is when things get spicy. Basically, any pairing of people who decides to (or intends to) raise children - and be legally bound to them - should be able to marry while those who don't should either not be allowed to marry or to have their marriage "expire." This way the true intention of marriage is made crystal clear but also, as a consequence, would affect everyone equally. Civil unions can apply for those who don't want to raise children, but marriage should apply strictly for those who raise children - whether that be your own biological kids or even adopted kids. My issue with conservatives on this is that they will whole-heartedly agree with me that every child deserves good and loving parents while not all parents deserve children, but then they'll at the same time privilege "fertile" (i.e., straight, even when they are infertile) unions because gay couples can't make children on their own. It seems to me that if you want to give the noble role of parent its due through the institution of marriage, you would want to privilege those who actively decide to take responsibility for children. And yes, for those who would discount my opinion on identitarian grounds otherwise, I am a homosexual.
Now that's quite the spicy take. Definitely an interesting angle I may discuss with people. I'm not sure I'd agree with you understanding of purpose/utility of marriage being child-rearing, but I like the logic to derive from it
@GayExTrad for context, the telos of marriage was something I only recently realized after spending my whole life thinking of it as being about love instead of being about children. Really I should have realized this sooner since my parents have an arranged marriage, and it's no secret that arranged marriages perform better by many metrics, including longevity. I think part of that is because the focus is less on the individuals getting married while prioritizing the compatibility of the "communities" which unite to form a support network for the fruit of this union. Even more persuasive is an evolutionary paradigm: why has marriage as an institution developed across so many disparate cultures and persisted if it didn't provide a benefit for the groups that developed it? If it was just about love/lust, you could expect much less monogamy because that limits the end of more widespread sharing of love. Feelings such as jealousy almost certainly developed because those who were moderately jealous were more effective at providing a stable home for child-rearing and in ensuring that their genes were being passed on.
Exciting to see this at its start. You’re got the potential to be a voice for self accepting post Catholics in the way James Martin and Q Spirit and the like has been for those of us who want to keep but challenge the church. Slowly digesting the content and it’s incredible. How you thought you were called to the enclosed Carmelites but not a preaching order is mental to me… you’ve also got the swagger of a guy whose finally enjoying the full range of delights the queen scene has to offer and it just sort of shows 😂
Thanks for the kind words, friend! I was hoping for an OP at the end of my name for a while (even had a huge icon of Aquinas in my prayer corner and own a huge copy of the summa), but I just fell in love with prayer. But I guess now I have the opportunity to preach, just not for the same team anymore, haha
@@GayExTrad I have that same Summa 😂 5 volumes, English Dominican translation. Ironically the same congregation that has now produced some of the best theological fighters against John Paul IIs homophobia. Delicious irony
Hi Cade. Great content! Keep it up. One suggestion: maybe make the background music a little quieter? The volume of it makes it a little difficult to hear you and the clips.
I thank God that there are more and more LGBT+ affirming Catholic ministries growing in the UK. I love the Church, but its traditional arguments against homosexuality (based on poor/limited interpretations of Scripture, Tradition, and Nature) can all be countered by modern scholarship.
@@calson814 Many Church teachings have changed over the centuries. As a teacher of Church history, I'm confident that this area will also change, eventually. As a theology professor in Rome once said, "One day the Church's teaching on homosexuality will change, and the statement will begin: "As the Church has constantly taught" "😆
@@johanbergstrom-allen6700 changed over the centuries? You mean developed? I've read Church History, and yes, the Development of Doctrines exist. However, there are certain doctrines we don't need to "develop" like the Sacrament of Marriage or the Priesthood.
@@calson814 Indeed, most doctrine develops. Some just stops, or even reverses. We no longer teach the existence of Limbo. We no longer say slavery or torture are acceptable. These are completely about face. Marriage is a relatively late development, sacramentally. Priesthood disciplines (like celibacy in the West) have changed more than doctrine. The creeds have remained largely unaltered for centuries. Other than that, most things are subject to development and occasionally complete change. I don't think we have to be afraid of that; it's shows the Holy Spirit at work among imperfect humanity.
Cade you are catholic, you were formed well and you are very intelligent. Could you explain Fiducia Supplicans, you will be a great arbiter to understand the document.
@@GayExTradDo you think the document is a step for relaxation of the church teaching on homosexuality in view also of cardinal Fernandez search for a new description of same sex attraction. He wants to drop the intrinsically disordered.
I love the way that you add comedy to expose the ridiculous. So we were taught, so we believed. The priest continues what the nurse began, hence the child imposes upon the man.
Haven’t heard of him but just listened to some of his videos after you commented. Most of his content is on a biblical perspective, which I don’t put weight on. What biblical authors intended has no weight to my decisions. His philosophical arguments only used Christian, theological language, which end up being just a giant word salad. Any particular points of his work that you’d want me to take a look at?
This is the weiredst thing people do. The Lord Jesus Christ didn't condemned homosexuality in his gospel but his disciples and apostle condemn us dmfor being evil and also sinner the worst! Hmmm something's fishsy around Christians!
Or maybe the homosexual acts at that time had something to do with pagan worshipping, and the definition of homosexual act was different from today is. Maybe
It's ok to be left-handed, or left hand use attracted, as long as you don't actually do left hand actions. This is how the Christian argument against homosexuality sounds to me now.
pretty much
Such a clever, wise and actually quite laugh out loud argument! Most Christian leaders are so UNBASED on this topic as to be RIDICULOUS/RISIBLE! It's not us doing to them it's them doing it to themselves!
Hello I love your insights but the music is a bit distracting!
✍️
Good for you for making your escape. I was not Catholic but was brought up in the church. LONG before I figured out I'm gay, I figured out that organized religion was pretty evil and the source of most conflict/evil. So, at age 13, I escaped. Best wishes to you.
Glad you got out early and was able to live your teen years without religion!
@@GayExTrad Me, too. It would have been awful, I think.
Jason sounds exactly like a cult member. I hope you continue to make more videos.
Yup - and he's not just in the cult, he's head of 'keeping the thought-crimers in-line.' I have the script for my next video complete and should have it up in a week or two
They only try to reduce us to being “beloved children of God” when there’s something about us that they want to erase. Great job, Cade!
nailed it - yup! they can make you do whatever they think god wants you to do, no matter how cruel
"He did make many many well-endowed twinks. Thank you Father God!" Damn, I think I have a good idea of who Cade might be dating lol😜
Love your videos and your channel! Can't wait to see it grow even more!
🙏😉
I had people pray the "your a beloved son of the father" bit from isiah over me at a retreat once after opening up about a guy I had fallen in love with and I didn't even realize there was a double meaning to that phrase until six months later. The disgust and trust issues were tough to wrestle with.
😭😭😭
What do you mean?
PREACH BROTHER! holy smokes. "I loved him enough to tell him the truth" seems like it's a whole bit.
Yup
I love how Jason Evert won't even consider the possibility of the Catholic Church changing its sexual ethics. News flash Jason - the Church has changed on so many issues already: slavery, the death penalty, cremation. The Church is always just a few decades behind. But Jason literally can't even bring himself to consider this as a possibility.
I always find the 'join the Catholic Church because we all agree theology and can infallibly know the truth' arguments so interesting. Catholic teaching has changes so much on sexuality, abortion, sacraments, eschatology, soteriology, and nearly every other aspect of life, but every says 'what we have right now is finally the truth and has always been taught' - which just isn't true
@@GayExTrad Jason Evert is intellectually compromised who prioritizes the culture war and conservatism over Catholic theology. The Church teaching on homosexuality is relatively narrow, all sex outside of marriage is bad, marriage is only between a man and a woman, therefore all gay sex is bad. Also since gay sex is bad, desiring gay sex is desiring something that is bad (that is really all the intrinsically disordered bit means). There is no Church teaching saying you can't date the same sex, or form durable romantic relationships. Eve Tushnet is a lesbian and practising Catholic with a partner, who is a Catholic speaker, and makes reactionary Catholics furious, because they disagree with her, but can't actually show she is a heretic, because she actually adheres to Catholic teaching. Reviewing her books might make interesting content.
Theologically the Church is already pivoting, the 2021 CDF dubium response to same sex unions for example carefully specified "For this reason, it is not licit to impart a blessing on relationships, or partnerships, even stable, that involve sexual activity outside of marriage (i.e., outside the indissoluble union of a man and a woman open in itself to the transmission of life), as is the case of the unions between persons of the same sex[6]." which by its very qualification opens the door to such blessing same sex relationships that don't involve sex. Chris Damian has written on this topic in more detail.
This! - the flipping Pope has said that civil marriage and given us some kind of half way old Latin American man compromise blessing. The teaching literally is struggling towards change on this one as we speak
Simply watch his two videos responding to Fiducia Supplicans. I really thought he would really understand the heart of it but not even that he could. He fell into the same culture war apologetic nonsense. I even had a small debate with him on the comments on those videos.
Here is the thing there is no need to give up you can be gay have a boyfriend get married and still have a relationship with God and Mother Mary eventually the traditional Catholics will have to realize they are delusional on this topic. The early church has civil union marriages in Syrian with two Saints a catholic scholar wrote a book on this many years ago but the church has his this from us.
very interesting
Wow! I’m so glad I found this channel. I’m 49, I started transitioning 6 months ago (FTM) and I’ve spent decades trying to fit in the Church. It’s never been successful for me. I’m glad someone is talking about the Church’s treatment of LGBTQ people
Keep being you, friend! Glad to have you watching my content
Lol. Yeah, I had to get rid of something for lent. It was Catholicism. 😊
😂😂😂
@@GayExTrad I gave up dating girls for lent
Oh my gosh literally me too. I switched to the Episcopal Church during lent. I'm able to carry pretty much every single thing I loved about being Catholic, sacraments and liturgy the hours and all, and leave the shame behind at the door.
@@MyehMyeh97 So happy for you!
@@MyehMyeh97 Yeah, that would make sense if you wanted a less conservative version of that. Whatever changes people make, like computers you don't want a program that destroys the hardware it runs on.
At my catholic church and school we had a whole bunch of " flamboyant " priests and brothers and butch looking and acting nuns and yet no one could ever seem to put 2 and 2 together. Denial is one heck of a drug
That’s incredible - sounds like a great situation for them lol
I think Jason has psychological issues. Something isn’t quite right. As is the case with lots of religious social media personalities.
112%
@@GayExTradYeah, when I look at him I see the eyes of someone who’s very scared and angry. He even looks combative in the thumbnail. His body language.
It's true of most Christian's. Not just the social media personalities. After all you'll probably loosen a few screws with the idea that one mistake, ranging from eating pork or shellfish, or wearing mixed fabrics, will send you to an eternal lake of fire. Oh, wait that's the OT, which Christians never follow. I guess we'll have to ask if Jesus's admonition to not look at a woman with lust applies to attractive men? Also, should you do that, you are encouraged to cut your junk off. It's not like there's a ton of blood vessels and nerves there. Oh, wait, we have modern medicine and so can knock you out. Weird that Jesus didn't give that to the Israelites, what with encouraging major surgeries. But he cured one person of leprosey!
love this takedown; I've heard many of these arguments from Catholic friends of mine urging me to stay in the Church and be closeted (in my case in two ways); the same kind of ideas and even more come up when discussing trans rights with these types, and it's NOT fun! I'm not nearly as good at debating as you or I'd think about posting videos dissecting transphobia from these popular Catholic accounts, would be a fun thing to watch!
🙏🙏 keep defending trans rights! You’re doing good work - any particular videos/talks you want me to debunk?
@@GayExTrad I mean, my one friend who keeps telling me not to transition sent me the Schmitz video on transness once but you've already done one of his vids so I get not wanting to do that if you'd rather not. Catholic Answers channel has some short, pretty bad videos that are ripe for responding to on this, esp the one with a Fr Vincent?
Yeah. Let's weigh options, no or other religions or constant insults. When they try to sell you on "what if you're wrong" just repeat it back and ask for hard evidence. They got nothin.
"Your kids need to take away your Facebook account" - best characterization I have heard in years - thank you.
😂😂😂
I used to be exactly the type of catholic teen with same sex attraction who was so inspired by Jason Evert, like I thought he was the perfect balance of "truth & love", until I was so disappointed by his reaction to Fiducia Supplicans. By the way you should do a video commenting on Pope Francis and Fiducia Supplicans.
I like the idea!
Hey cade, have you heard of the theology of the body? Im assuming you already looked into that?
Yeah, TOB is pretty vacuous. It's more or less teleology with poetic language on top
@@GayExTrad I'm sorry when you talk about teleology do you mean "purpose"? How is that vacuous? It seems pretty obvious that if God exists then he gave everyone a purpose or telos, even if we may not know what it is exactly
I am just cracking up over your reactions in this video😂 My parents used to make me listen to all the chastity talks from the Everts when I was younger, so this video was extra vindicating for me haha.
Side note though: in future videos would you perhaps consider changing the music or making it quieter? It is kinda drowning out the speaking a bit😅
But all of the trendy people having obnoxious background music, haha. (I tend to make background music way too loud lol). Yeah, Jason is what most catholics are baby fed - he only seems smart if you're raised on him, otherwise, he just sounds insane
By the way, you’ve got a good face dude. Sorry, I did say that I appreciate male beauty.
Jason did say that you're supposed to be attracted to the same sex, so I'd assume even Jason would support this comment 😉👉👉
Some of these sayings have a really weird history that goes back to the 70s apparently. Theres a documentary on netflix about "Pray Away the Gay" and a group called Exodus where "recovered" "exgay" "born again" christians would go around the country speaking about how homosexuality was like an illness that could be overcome by dealing with various issues with your past.
One of their premises was that a "father wound" would lead to sinful behavior and they would try to connect it with scripture passages.
And then after talking about being ex-gay, it turns out all those guys were still gay - just hiding it better. Exodus is a sad group
@@GayExTrad and yet catholic speakers will still prop up people that follow this bit. 😭. It’s always the same story. “I broke up with my gay partner and then all my catholic shame bubbled up and I decided mommy and daddy were right all along and now I’m cured”
Thanks again Cade. Thanks again for seeing through all the BS and emotional manipulation that these videos often use.
Literally - these are all manipulative word salads without any arguments of substance
I really appreciate your emphasis on civil rights for LGBTQ+ people. Many American Catholics think the Church affirms that but the reality is the Church has a very limited view of what rights should be accorded.
For example, in the recent document Dignitas Infinitas, it should be noted in section 55 that while it condemns imprisonment for sexual *orientation*, it fails to condemn imprisonment for "homosexual acts." This is precisely the distinction and justification some African Catholic Bishops' Conferenes give when they support draconian laws against LGBTQ+ and the Vatican tolerates this. The Vatican's consistent use of "*unjust* discrimination" in this regard only feeds the idea that some discrimination is acceptable. The Church has gone on record saying the discrimination of homosexuals in education, housing, and employment can be *just*. Also, the USCCB issued a formal statement in 2003 opposing the overturning of Lawrence v Texas by the US Supreme Court which nullified anti-sodomy laws in the US. This needs to be remembered whenever Church officials repeat the "unjust discrimination" phrase in public statements. They should be asked what would be *just* discrimination? Would punishment for homosexual *acts* be permissible?
My apologies for some formatting stuff here. I'm new to the editing function for these comments.
Exactly! Yeah, I've always seen the term 'unjust discrimination' as an oxymoron and a vacuous term - it's never defined, never employed against any discrimination, and is just used as a 'we're not terrible with this.' Nobody would say we're only against unjust racism, unless they think some racism is okay.
For me, the purpose of these talks is to package the Church's teaching on homosexuality/help people who don't know much understand why, not as much of an apologetic/strict defense of the catholic teaching on homosexuality
What videos would you see as an apologetic/strict defense of catholic teaching?
@@GayExTrad Honestly, I haven't looked up those videos, mainly videos that are geared to a wider audience.
So I've got a hot take which I'm sure will upset everyone: society has strayed far off from an understanding that the purpose/utility of marriage is child-rearing, not about love. As such, arguments for marriage equality based on "love is love" are not appropriate. This is something that many more conservative-minded folk would agree with me about, and often these people will bring up how expanding marriage to gays has polluted the "sanctity" of marriage. It is at this point that I argue that it was the greater society's forgetting of the utility of marriage that allowed for gay marriage, not the other way around.
So far it seems that my "hot take" only really would upset someone who is more liberal/progressive, but taking it to its logical conclusion is when things get spicy. Basically, any pairing of people who decides to (or intends to) raise children - and be legally bound to them - should be able to marry while those who don't should either not be allowed to marry or to have their marriage "expire." This way the true intention of marriage is made crystal clear but also, as a consequence, would affect everyone equally. Civil unions can apply for those who don't want to raise children, but marriage should apply strictly for those who raise children - whether that be your own biological kids or even adopted kids.
My issue with conservatives on this is that they will whole-heartedly agree with me that every child deserves good and loving parents while not all parents deserve children, but then they'll at the same time privilege "fertile" (i.e., straight, even when they are infertile) unions because gay couples can't make children on their own. It seems to me that if you want to give the noble role of parent its due through the institution of marriage, you would want to privilege those who actively decide to take responsibility for children. And yes, for those who would discount my opinion on identitarian grounds otherwise, I am a homosexual.
Now that's quite the spicy take. Definitely an interesting angle I may discuss with people. I'm not sure I'd agree with you understanding of purpose/utility of marriage being child-rearing, but I like the logic to derive from it
@GayExTrad for context, the telos of marriage was something I only recently realized after spending my whole life thinking of it as being about love instead of being about children. Really I should have realized this sooner since my parents have an arranged marriage, and it's no secret that arranged marriages perform better by many metrics, including longevity. I think part of that is because the focus is less on the individuals getting married while prioritizing the compatibility of the "communities" which unite to form a support network for the fruit of this union.
Even more persuasive is an evolutionary paradigm: why has marriage as an institution developed across so many disparate cultures and persisted if it didn't provide a benefit for the groups that developed it? If it was just about love/lust, you could expect much less monogamy because that limits the end of more widespread sharing of love. Feelings such as jealousy almost certainly developed because those who were moderately jealous were more effective at providing a stable home for child-rearing and in ensuring that their genes were being passed on.
This was a good rebuttal. Well done
Thanks! 'twas a fun video to film/edit - Jason has endless content to react to, haha
Exciting to see this at its start. You’re got the potential to be a voice for self accepting post Catholics in the way James Martin and Q Spirit and the like has been for those of us who want to keep but challenge the church. Slowly digesting the content and it’s incredible. How you thought you were called to the enclosed Carmelites but not a preaching order is mental to me… you’ve also got the swagger of a guy whose finally enjoying the full range of delights the queen scene has to offer and it just sort of shows 😂
Thanks for the kind words, friend! I was hoping for an OP at the end of my name for a while (even had a huge icon of Aquinas in my prayer corner and own a huge copy of the summa), but I just fell in love with prayer. But I guess now I have the opportunity to preach, just not for the same team anymore, haha
@@GayExTrad I have that same Summa 😂 5 volumes, English Dominican translation. Ironically the same congregation that has now produced some of the best theological fighters against John Paul IIs homophobia. Delicious irony
I’m just going to judge the color grade on this video fwiw
that fx6 vision phantom LUT at 65% opacity and bringing up the shadows a little goes hard
These are very good videos. Keep it up.
I appreciate it! I got some great content coming in the next few weeks
Hi Cade. Great content! Keep it up. One suggestion: maybe make the background music a little quieter? The volume of it makes it a little difficult to hear you and the clips.
Noted!
I thank God that there are more and more LGBT+ affirming Catholic ministries growing in the UK. I love the Church, but its traditional arguments against homosexuality (based on poor/limited interpretations of Scripture, Tradition, and Nature) can all be countered by modern scholarship.
Love it!
Sorry to disappoint you but the Church won't change its teachings!
@@calson814 Many Church teachings have changed over the centuries. As a teacher of Church history, I'm confident that this area will also change, eventually. As a theology professor in Rome once said, "One day the Church's teaching on homosexuality will change, and the statement will begin: "As the Church has constantly taught" "😆
@@johanbergstrom-allen6700 changed over the centuries? You mean developed? I've read Church History, and yes, the Development of Doctrines exist. However, there are certain doctrines we don't need to "develop" like the Sacrament of Marriage or the Priesthood.
@@calson814 Indeed, most doctrine develops. Some just stops, or even reverses. We no longer teach the existence of Limbo. We no longer say slavery or torture are acceptable. These are completely about face. Marriage is a relatively late development, sacramentally. Priesthood disciplines (like celibacy in the West) have changed more than doctrine. The creeds have remained largely unaltered for centuries. Other than that, most things are subject to development and occasionally complete change. I don't think we have to be afraid of that; it's shows the Holy Spirit at work among imperfect humanity.
Cade you are catholic, you were formed well and you are very intelligent. Could you explain Fiducia Supplicans, you will be a great arbiter to understand the document.
I def could make a short video on Fiducia - what questions about it do you want to hear answered?
@@GayExTradDo you think the document is a step for relaxation of the church teaching on homosexuality in view also of cardinal Fernandez search for a new description of same sex attraction. He wants to drop the intrinsically disordered.
Love!!! "Gay the pray away!"
😂😂😂
I love the way that you add comedy to expose the ridiculous.
So we were taught, so we believed. The priest continues what the nurse began, hence the child imposes upon the man.
Glad you enjoyed! Yeah, sometimes the easiest thing to do is laugh
I would absolutely LOVE to see you take on Robert Gagnon. Are you familiar with him?
Haven’t heard of him but just listened to some of his videos after you commented. Most of his content is on a biblical perspective, which I don’t put weight on. What biblical authors intended has no weight to my decisions. His philosophical arguments only used Christian, theological language, which end up being just a giant word salad. Any particular points of his work that you’d want me to take a look at?
This is the weiredst thing people do. The Lord Jesus Christ didn't condemned homosexuality in his gospel but his disciples and apostle condemn us dmfor being evil and also sinner the worst! Hmmm something's fishsy around Christians!
interesting
Or maybe the homosexual acts at that time had something to do with pagan worshipping, and the definition of homosexual act was different from today is. Maybe