Do Psychologists Earn More than a Masters Degree in Private Practice?
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2020
- Do Psychologists Earn More than a Masters Degree in Private Practice?
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Many of you ask me if it’s worth it to get a doctorate degree if you want to be a therapist in private practice. I can almost feel the underlying assumption: “hey there, DOCTOR Marie Fang, you must think all of that extra work and money must have been totally worth it, right?
My thoughts may not be quite what you expect. Hang tight - in this video I break down the real story of who earns the most in private practice.
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This video is geared for therapists of all kinds, including psychologists, MFTs, LPCCs, social workers, and others in the clinical counseling field.
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Because psychologists tend to charge more than masters-level therapists in private practice, we might interpret that psychologists earn more than licensed masters-level therapists in private practice, right?
Not so fast. There are two issues with this assumption.
First, you have to account for the discrepancy in tuition costs of a doctorate degree vs a masters degree. Let’s break down the average costs of each:
In the state of California, most MFT degrees cost somewhere between $55,000 and $70,000 in total (just as long as you’re not at USC! Goodness).
www.mftcalifornia.com/estimat...
The average PsyD in clinical psychology in my state costs anywhere from $120,000 to upwards of $250,000 total, depending on how long you take to complete your program. (which keep in mind, tends to vary much more for doctorates than masters degrees because of the dissertation).
psydprograms.org/california-p...
So conservatively, doctorate-level therapists can expect to pay at least twice as much as masters-level therapists on tuition, if not four times as much. Yikes!
Furthermore, the average time between starting grad school and getting licensed is wildly different between doctorate and masters level therapists. So we also need to account for the delayed income for the average psychologist as well.
And let’s not forget to account for interest rates on those darn student loans!
www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans...
www.finaid.org/calculators/lo...
After doing this math you can see that across a lifetime, a psychologist may not necessarily earn more than a masters level therapist in private practice. And they certainly would need to charge far more per hour just to earn the same amount.
I mentioned that there are two issues with the assumption that psychologists earn more than masters-level therapists. And even though I think the first point I just mentioned is valid on its own, the second issue makes the first point moot:
There is no “rule” for how much therapists of different credentials are allowed to charge in private practice.
Yep, so you can literally charge whatever you want per session, as long as there are clients willing to pay you at that rate.
www.lifepurposeinstitute.com/...
So if your end-game is to maximize how much you can earn in private practice, your degree doesn’t have much to do with it. Or if anything, it’s easiest to make an argument that the lower tuition, faster licensure, and smaller total interest owed on student loans makes it easiest to earn more at the masters level.
The decision to pursue a doctorate vs a masters-level degree is yours to determine for yourself. But, I really discourage you from making the decision to go for a doctorate solely because you see psychologists charging more in private practice. It doesn’t necessarily mean they earn more overall!
I have a masters, an associates level license, and I’m on faculty of a university. My career has led me into administration - no clinical work and I made +$100k last year. My ego wants to doctorate, but it will likely have no financial benefit to my career.
Michael Burnett I have never heard of an associate level license. May I ask what country or state you are in? What license are you referring to?
Michel@, no offense and I’m not trying to play like I know more, but""””@99 Michell unit it sounds like you had the same thing that happened to me which is what happened when I worked at a hospital or an intensive outpatient unit as a intern.probably referring to an LC DC which is license chemical dependency counselor… That’s for individuals who want to work either with individuals with addiction only and I would recommend that you don’t do that if you don’t have life experience with it vicariously or personally....
I have a license lessskilled coach that can help you
i.e.presents I feel as though you may be asking the wrong questions… Any psychological degree that only requires two years in an associates is going to be an LC DC or life skills coach and that’s not really even schooling for life skills coach it’s just a licensure. If you wanna go the right way, get your degree in psychology and then get your masters in counseling or psychology or social work. That’s the best way to know what you wanna do and if you even want to Take on everything that we do… It’s a pretty heavy burden especially right now
😯
@@i.e.presents638 $Billion question. Yes.
"Give me my second doctorate" 😂 love your honesty! I think this video needs to be mandatory for all graduating psych majors.
Haha! Thanks! Just making light of the reality that most therapists are paying off those pesky student loans, but people rarely talk about how expensive the interest is
I am almost done with my doctorate for clinical psych and yes it is very expensive! I am in a PsyD program so sadly not funded like many PhDs. However, my decision was not based upon money but the added training and specificity that comes with added coursework and years of hands on clinical training with patients has been invaluable. Choosing a doctorate for me was more about high levels of training in diagnosis, assessment and case formulation.
Would you had done it again if you went back?
@@rand_-mk5lb yes I would. The training is invaluable
@@amandaoliva7666 Thank you for a quick response. I will be starting my Master's degree in Applied Psychology in Liberty University, do you think I will have a shot at getting into a PsyD program?
@@rand_-mk5lb yeah I think so a lot of people have a better chance going from a masters program and having research experience too
@@amandaoliva7666 I'll be a veteran by the time I finish my program, would that help my chances as well? Also what kind of research experience? Like a random paper?
I completed by Master's and tought about going on for my Psy.D, but It would have been been very expensive. I would have also had to write a disertation which was something that I did not want to do. I was conflicted becausse I wanted to advance my education. Insteasd of doing the Psy.D, I completed an Ed.S program in mental health counseling. It was a wonderful experience, and I got a great education from it. Today I am an Ed.S, LPC and enjoying what I am dong. Good luck to all of you.
So helpful. I’m going for my masters. Thank you 🙏
Congrats! Best wishes to you :)
This video was incredibly helpful. Thank you so much for your content!
Thank you for clarification on fees and psychologists v masters level, that has been a back-and-forth in my mind as I build my private practice. I had begun my journey back to school as an adult with the goal having always wanted to "get a bachelor's in Psychology," once into the program colleagues and professors encouraged me to take it further, and it was there I learned I could practice professionally at the masters level, not needing to get a doctorate to do so, that it was actually the same license I'd be using were I to later decide to get a PsyD. Sometimes I think for my own personal choice it would be enjoyable to get a PsyD, til I peek at my student loan debt than think maybe not that important. I have an MS in Mental Health Counseling from Capella University, chose to go broad not having wanted to only do MFT, and wanting to become an LPCC.
Thank you sooo much for this! I can't tell you how grateful I am. I was really unsure about which to pursue master or doctorate because I wanted to make the big $$$, and my ego wants to Doctorate, but I'm not interested in spending 7 years of my life in school and I have a bone to pick with American education system as anyway haha. A master's will give me the flexibility I want. Thanks so much.
Another great video, Marie! You cannot underscore enough the point about the opportunity cost associated with the loss of full time income between the time a master's level therapist begins practicing and the PhD finally can do the same. Also, the same applies to the interest that will be paid on loans. A good way to consider this decision is by calculating the payback time between the two options. Thanks!!
Extremely helpful. Thank you!
I’ve needed this channel for years😂
Hi, just as a note, most doctorates do not cost anything to the student, as most doctorate programs offer tuition waivers for full tuition. Not just research grants, almost every single counseling psych PhD has tuition waivers for the students.
They also take longer than 4-5 years. The majority of students finish in 7+ years. Not counting postdoctoral requirements.
@@samanthamorris3642 that is false. My program averages 5 years. I will be done in 4
@@mentalhealingwithelaine5252 Thank you for that. Some people need to realize that their comments carry weight and can lead or mislead people who are at a crossroad of career decision.
@@vision8527 I’m sure she wasn’t trying to purposefully mislead anyone. She shared what she knew. People who are truly curious must do their own research.
@@mimijoseph9036 You're right she was not doing it by purpose. And everyone needs to be curious like you said by going extra miles to substantiate and verify information conveyed before acting on it.
Just got into a masters program. This make me more comfortable with my decision. 😆
This was so helpful. Thank you!
I think another limitation that was not accounted for was the length of time a client actually stays in therapy.
I love your breakdown and financial analysis. Great way of thinking and good job presenting it.
I'm glad you found it helpful!
Thank you for the video!! I am pursuing my master's degree in applied behavior analysis.
Thank you for the great info 😊
I've applied to an M.A. program and do not plan on obtaining my doctorate because of a few reasons. First, I'm "older." I'm finishing my bachelor's degree this year, and I'm hoping to start a master's program next year, which means I'll be 31 when I begin my master's program. I'm so ready to just be in the career already! Ha! Second, student loans are insane for doctoral programs, and I don't have much research experience to even get in the door with a doctoral program. I am still planning on gaining experience and eventually opening up a private practice, and I can do all of that with a master's degree! I'd rather do a bunch of post-master's trainings, like EMDR and the like, to build my repertoire than go to school for an additional 4-6 years in a doctoral program. Bottom line--research just ain't for me. Ha!
I love your honesty. I’m feeling the same way I’d rather do a bunch of trainings or even learn another language opposed to spending time and money on a doctoral degree program in addition to the mental drain that comes with research.
I am a Psychologist and always suggest students who want to work in mental health consider the benefits of an MSW program. A licensed social worker has essentially the same private practice options. In my opinion social workers are also more established in inpatient settings, working in a ariety of medical and psychiatric hospitals.
I’m 48 and just started my first year in grad school. By the way, I also am going to go for specialty skills such as EMDR.
@@truedetectiveseason1494 Good for you! Go for it! 😀
My husband has a PhD from a state university. After watching him struggle through the time commitment, dissertation, and EPPP, I decided on working on master's degrees (3) part-time while working, and paying cash for them. I also have the advantage of being able to do some "B level" psychological assessments, because of additional training I have. It's all about how position yourself.
That’s so smart!! I’m glad you found a system that works for you
Which master’s degrees did you go for?
This is what I'm considering. I am apprehensive about doing a PhD as I just now feel like I'm on my feet financially after living two on my own for two years and don't want to struggle like a college student again.
There are many people out there who seek out doctorate-level therapists for their advanced training and expertise. That does help get people in the door at times. There is a lot to be said for those who are pursuing and have pursued and have obtained a doctorate degree!
Absolutely! I’m grateful for my degree and the additional training I have.
And at the same time, many of my cohort in grad school said they chose to go for the doctorate because they believed they could earn more offering therapy in private practice. I know many of them had their bubbles burst!
Hoping to share this piece of reality so people can be better educated in making this important decision! 😊
@@PrivatePracticeSkills I think you did a fine job of explaining. Either way you go, it's expensive! Cheers.
@@ladykws That's for sure!
Such useful information Marie. Thank you so much 🙏🏼
Thank you!
I'm so glad you made this video because a lot of people may have misconceptions. I originally went for a master's degree because I wasn't sure if I really want to commit a total 4-5 yrs for a doctorate. Besides, I can always go back to school to complete a doctorate after getting my master's degree. However, I decided not to because I don't want additional student loans given that I'm doing nearly the same thing a psychologist does (at least where I work at now). I think it also comes down to what kind of work experience you are getting in your career when it comes to being a therapist regardless of your degree unless you want to do psychological testing or become a neuropsychologist - and correct me if I'm wrong on this. Gosh, the cost of tuition is getting absurd! I wish grad school isn't so expensive.
I do agree! There are a couple of other specialized paths, academic, and research pursuits that make sense to have a doctorate for. But in the end, by the time everyone is licensed we all have just about the same amount of therapeutic training. Glad you found the best path for you!
Most definitely helpful. I’m currently in a masters program but I’ve decided I’m going for my doctorate afterwards. I’m beginning to feel as though I should have just went straight into a doc program but this comment has definitely helped me
Nice video, but I have a counterpoint. You made it sound as if there's no point having PhD /PsyD apart from the $67 average difference😃
1. The additional specialist training at doctoral level cannot be swept under the carpet. The additional training adds to your knowledge, skills, experience, case conceptualization skills and the rest of them. And all of these additional can make you more competitive than Master's level therapist in the field.
2. PhD or PsyD holders with strong competencies in the fields, they get higher pay and also occupy higher top clinical positions in the field.
So, in my opinion, it's highly competitive and beneficial to get a PhD/PsyD if you have the time, the finances and the mental power. FOR WITH IT, IT IS EASIER AND FASTER TO CLIMB THE TOP OF YOUR CAREER.
@@vision8527 Not everyone strives to climb to the top. Many people will view the psychologist as being more effective and more competent than a master's level clinician. However, research doesn't support that in terms of treatment outcomes between different degree levels, they perform on-par with each other. The only real difference is the ability to do psychological testing as a psychologist, which is what many of the higher paying positions seem to require a lot (if not entirely). Both my psychology and counseling professors agree with this statement as well.
@@zippydamew4354 If research is conducted, it will definitely support my hypothesis that an additional clinical training at doctoral level will more likely increase a clinician's effectiveness and treatment outcomes than a Master's level clinician without.
This video is amazing! Thanksss!
An easy way to account for differences is to look at insurance reimbursements.
I’m doing a masters program for my LMFT and plan to dual license as an LPC as well. The program is 3.5 years minimum due to the year intern requirement. I am satisfied with the program and plan to increase my rate as I become a seasoned therapist. Love your videos by the way!
That’s so great! Best wishes to you!
I have yet to see an ounce of real life benefit for getting both licenses at the same Master’s level
Hello, I'm currently in a masters program which is burning my pockets . It's MA CHMC,can you please tell me what's the difference between MS and MA. And can you suggest any colleges offering online programs. Currently I'm studying at Chicago school of professional psychology and I'm paying 2400$ per month. My goal is to become LPC I'm Georgia. Kindly shed some light.Thank you in advance.
I am so glad that I found Your channel
Glad you're here!
Helpful! thanks
Thank you for the honesty. I do not like conducting research and I don’t think that all those years of education and research are going to make me a better therapist compared with the experience that could have been gained as a psychotherapist during that time. So I’m going with the masters (I’m in the UK but the situation is similar here).
I would love to get a PHD in psychology because I love the concept of psychological testing and research seems interesting. Also, psychologists that work in a state hospital can make good money. I have my MSW which was only 25k since I did the advanced standing program. But I can't imagine doing another 5 years of isolation and making little to no money (especially since you are barred from how much you can work for funded PHD programs.) Like many others, the only thing I regret is the lack of clinical experience that the degree gave in regards to providing therapy. I wasn't able to get any internships in a therapy setting and there was a lack of classes that actually taught us how to do therapy. Here's to learning by doing and working towards my LCSW! 🤞 Hopefully I find a good supervisor!
Can you do a video on the difference between a LCPC and a LCSW & how the differences play out in private practice. I love your videos !
LCPC primary focus is on counseling. LCSW learn more about social resources and case management. Overall they can work in similar roles and make similar salaries.
That would be a fun video. I’m a LCPC in private practice. I loved my graduate studies, and felt well prepared for my career in healthcare (14+ in an oncology setting). My peers were a blend of LCSW, LCPC, and LMFT. We were all clinically strong. I was promoted into Administration before deciding to invest in my practice. I feel state impacts clinicians’ ability to practice in certain settings, which feels like a loss, given the robust training that we have.
Amazing video as ALWAYS!!!
Thank you!! ❤️
Girl you're amazing
Thank you Thank you Thank you! I'm guessing you're a Teacher too? Excellent!
Your sweetness shows through your videos. you said, 'Did some of mah own research" lol cute. Good job on your work cam transitioning is good too.
Thank you!
It could be a difference depending on the area of the field you work in as well, such as working as a neuropsych or addictions therapist, versus behavioral analysis versus family therapy, mind-body medicine, organizational, etc.
I have a Masters. I live in a more rural area and that was what I had available locally to me (I’m older, no online then😆). I love school & learning, if I didn’t have the bill & if a doctorate program was close by, I would have enjoyed it, plus my ego would have loved it, but realistically with having a family and practicing, a masters alows me to do everything I want to do. 🤷♀️
not that this counts as private practice, but always having the option to work part time in academia is a awesome plus for the doctorate level psychologists who works private practice. not to mention that if you get your PhD instead of a Psyd you can always have the option of scientific research part time or full time as well. I'm planning on doing a PhD in clinical psych and then doing a post doc in forensics or neuro, because i can do pretty much anything with that. if I'm bored of teaching i can do private practice if I'm bored of both I can do scientific research, and in addition a forensic post doc allows you to profile in conjunction with law enforcement, I think getting a PhD over a Psyd and making sure to choose a Doctorate over a masters really helps to widen your options in the field of clinical work.
Great vid! Currently a rising second year counseling psych PsyD student, and heading into my first practicum! My career goal is becoming a counseling and sport psychologist, so I got my masters of science in Athletic Counseling first to get the sport psychology specialization training under my belt, and now my PsyD degree to get the clinical experience and licensure. Two years masters degree, and PsyD degree done in 3+1 years (masters degree courses knocked off a year of PsyD), so 5+1 years combined. No help with my masters degree with tuition, but luckily my PsyD tuition is about half paid for with my Graduate Associateship position.
My biggest piece of information about careers/degrees which can be helpful or fellow students is, think about what type of work you want to do/type of population I want to work with. From there, then seeing what degrees and licensure you need to pursue that will help you get there.
Hi! I'm also interested in pursuing a career in sport psychology. Would you be able to share a little bit more about how/where you went for your masters as well as psyd? Thank you!
@@ginnyshim as a sports psychologist do you get to travel along with the players everywhere?
After talking to a Licensed Psychologist doing private practice with her own clinic for kids for over 10 years , she told me nowadays degrees do not matter as before. She said "get an accredited master that allows you getting a license as soon as possible so you can start seeing clients and making money. The only thing I got was a name of Dr. but what keeps my clinic full and helps me get clients are contacts and my certifications. Today is not what you studied but what can you do? Get certifications and get good enough at something so people look for your. She said contacts on the field, snowball, referral and social media helped my clinic grow."
I just got my BA in Psychology being so scared of negative comments about this profession and money wise. Finding your video confirmed what she said. Very helpful. New subscriber!!!!☺
It’s different in every state and country. Also government here gives stipend for grad programs after a certain level. Diploma of Counselling takes 2-4 years however if you include your placement and your community Services Diploma (placement) then is can take longer. It’s taken me almost 5 years and will hopefully complete in June next year. Most Counsellors will earn around 70K AUD depending on what type of business and life coaching they want to do. If they teach workshops ect
Thank you so much for making this video. I was struggling with my decision to get a MFT vs a PsyD, and this video gave me tremendous insight!
The interest on those student loans makes a big difference. Thanks again!
Greater immediate income allows for greater cash flow, qualifying one for better loans that can be used to buy appreciating assets that can be sold to compensate for what one will pay in extra interest, or whatever is taxed once its forgiven. Also, psychologists can test- and this is the bulk of income. Specialized testing. Becoming a psychologist to do therapy is...well...non-sensical unless you specialize. Testing is where the money is at. I routinely make $500 hr. So, even with 350k in debt, it's quickly paid for. I strongly encourage people to only get into fields if they want to maximize potential in that field. If therapeutic knowledge is desired, get a Masters and continue to learn for the rest of your life.
You're absolutely right! I should have specified that I was referring specifically for therapy services. It's a question that goes around still when people see that psychologists tend to charge more per hour than master's-level therapists. I always encourage people to get a master's if their goal is to do exclusively therapy.
I was wondering if you knew anything about being a clinical health psychologist since that was a field I was interested in before I just graduated in mental health and addiction therapy. Thanks
Hi Brian, As someone who is applying to grad school right now for my M.A. in Mental Health Counseling, I thank you for making me aware of this aspect of the industry. I didn't realize that testing was so lucrative! According to the National Board of Forensic Evaluators "appropriately
trained licensed mental health counselors may administer and interpret psychological tests", so this is a skill set that I will be sure to focus on during and after my graduate program.
@@ravenette1980 But I dont believe Masters level therapist, eben with a license can test I think thats only for doctorate level
Do you file insurance from your clients? If so do you have a video that teaches how to go about doing so?
Something to consider, I have a Master of social work degree and I am licensed as an LCSW. I just started private practice a year ago and I’ve been licensed for 10 years But I have worked in jobs doing more case management and crisis assessments than therapy. I am just now feeling like I have a grip on how to do psychotherapy. My program did not prepare me for this and I know a lot of people that feel the same way. Social work programs give you a very broad knowledge of the “helping field” But good luck feeling like you are ready to do therapy on graduation day. Even with supervision hours, I had to do plenty more learning and training before I felt ready. This is just one person’s experience but at the same time I’ve talked to a lot of people who feel the same way.For this reason, I actually wish I would have completed a doctorate degree and think it would have been worth the money and time spent.
This is exactly what my school's advisor was telling me. You need the Master's, then the Psy.D because that's the only way you will get true therapy training. She said that people just want to finish and make money, but it's very important to not bypass the steps of you truly want to be ready to sit with someone and assist them in transforming their lives. And that's aside from actually working on yourself.
Thank you for this🌻
I'm about to start social work at the uni. At the moment I'm doing postgraduate in systemic Psychotherapy but here in England the uni does not provide low cost clinic for its students. Given all goes well, shall be able to complete the postgraduate around year 2 SW. Most of my colleagues in class are social workers turn therapists or still social workers at the moment. Here is the paradox: social work will prove you with the opportunity to see families in clinical settings but it rarely gives the time to do the therapy. My colleagues complained of the amount of risk assessment and paper work they do. Yet, SW one of the easiest ways to complete the systemic therapy courses. It's a mess really.
As for the masters, I've been wrestling with it. PhD has a nice sound to it and would eventually allow me to establish my own training organisation but at what cost. I love learning and teaching in general but academia isn't my favourite place. I reckon it is better to complete two masters that complement each other than a PhD slave work :())
@@accidentaltherapist6597 seems like a psychology pathway is a huge mess everywhere you go. I didn't realise I needed to be a millionaire prior to studying psychology.
@@johnthebaptist5574 it’s so sad, honestly.
I choose clinical and mental health counseling because I like conversing with people in need, but I want my doctorate in a different field, so I have something to fall back on if everything doesn't work out in my counseling degree for some reason.
I love that ambition! I hope you take care of yourself in the midst of the long journey ahead so you can enjoy the ride
Mr. RASH A very expensive backup plan, in time/money/energy/relationalsacrifices, why not just go all in on what you are passionate about and give it the best shot of working out?
for me, my age being 32 in the next two weeks, i am thinking about doing a masters, but i also am worried about the future if i decide to move to another state (or country) and how much that could affect my future. I almost wonder if it will be just a better peace of mind to take the extra time to get the Ph.D in counseling, even though i already am at a late age. the cost isn't a factor for me, but the uncertentity of the future is. However, I also want to start working again, and i wonder if it will be possible to work while in grad school with something related to my degree and get paid.
It would be great interesting to run data on fees and provider gender, across and within MA/PhD.
This helped a lot, thank you!
This was really helpful, although now I have even more questions. I had thought that if I wanted to become a clinical psychologist, I would have to earn a doctorate degree in order to be able to work in the specific field. I’m still new to this. I thought most jobs require clinical psychologist to have a doctorate degree to get a job as well. This gave me a big relieve as I was worried about the 5-7 years commitment and the worst part is the tuition cost oof.
@Aurora Sky Same here! I think a doctorate is what ill go for.
one key point to include is amount of ongoing education (number of professional practice years). since 1993, I've coughed up more than a million $$$ for the sole benefit of other's health.
My mentor at the time (a psychologist) encouraged me to get my Masters. I trusted him and did so; afterwards I talked to doctorate grad students... and they told me the same thing.
Did you ever ask "why" they were recommending Master's and not PhD/PsyD? That could've even helped the more.
Very good video, although only relevant to Americans (and potentially Canadians). In Australia, only a Master's Degree is required to be a Clinical Psychologist, and Doctorate degrees are free (apart from the masters level course work component).
Did you remove the cost for psychological assessments that psychologist are licensed to do before doing your math? Is this only for cost per hour for psychotherapy? Did you also remove master level therapists who were under supervision (because their costs are going to be lower)? Likewise for post doc psychologists not yet licensed? Thanks for this video! Thanks for being unbiased. I’m a masters level counselor under supervision. I’m planning to go for my doctorate in a couple of years.
Ugh. I can’t wait to have my Masters finished. It feels like it’s taking forever.
I have a question, I am looking at starting an mft program or starting a PhD program that is supposed to be 4 yrs. I want to be a clinical director at a residential treatment program like a rehab or group home (STRTP). It seems at least in my area (North bay area in CA) that many programs hire either a clinical psychologist or an mft, is that normal or is that just in my area. I do not plan on staying in my region forever. Thanks
Can you speak more on the kinds of licensure you can get as a therapist in order to “supplement”/specialize and offer more services without getting your PhD or PsyD?
Loved your video💖. I just graduated with my masters in clinical mental health counseling this past may. I never felt PhD was worth it for many of the reasons you mentioned. Many I met don't make any better & spend tons of years in research or academia.
Can you test with a masters?
I’m in my first year of grad school. This was helpful. Now I am sure I won’t be going for a doctorate.
Great video Dr. Fang, I’m currently a nurse practitioner who is considering a career change into therapy/counseling and trying to decipher what that would look like for my family. From a medicine standpoint, my training and experience will never come close to that of a physician and we are compensated differently for that reason. From the layman’s view, a PsyD seems like a more robust training modality than that of a master’s level clinician but I have no experience in this. I’m not interested in rocking the boat, I’m just curious of your thoughts on that subject and how it relates to clinical practice. Thanks for the content as always!
Yes, you’re absolutely right! I didn’t focus on this in the video, but there are many reasons to pursue becoming a psychologist because of the additional specialty training. As one of the other commenters mentioned, assessments are one of the major areas we have extra training as well as research.
My hope was to convey that for the areas that both masters-level and doctorate-level therapists have the same amount of training (i.e., therapeutic skills), the psychologist doesn’t necessarily earn more just because they charge more. Great points!
Private Practice Skills thanks for the clarification and for all of your inspiring content. Switching careers is a huge decision and I just want to ensure I choose the right path to achieve my goal of private practice. Thanks again Dr. Fang and keep the videos coming!
@@zachpackard did you end up making the leap? What attracted you to counseling instead of nursing?
It's suddenly got dark outside! 😆 🤣 😂 after saying the opposite of her Dr. Degree! I Love her and her bluppers! I'm not a therapist or going into it but I'm curious so I watched one video and one week later I'm anfan! I love your videos! Interesting
Привіт првет) As you know I'm sure, yet was not part of the discussion most likely do to it does not include the majority, if the concern is the cost for a doctorate is the concern ... then rest at ease if you are lucky enough, there are some fully funded Ph.D. programs out there (as well as Psy.D.), albeit my opinion is that perhaps you may be better off not making the decision based on the pay rate. Having a doctorate is great and has its advantages, yet like stated in the video in a way that what you may wish to do could be possible with just a Masters degree ... да)
For a masters counseling psychologist in MFT specialty is it hard to make 6 figures around california area
Psychology assessment and better insurance reimbursement rates are reasons to be a psychologist. You also get paid more in organizations because you can also do Medicaid reviews. Sorry, but a psychologist provides much more and have better specializations i.e. neuro, rehab, health etc
True
Thats one of the main reasons why I want to do my Psy D
Psychologists are usually the director at organizations which is higher pay.
I need your guidance as i have recently came to Alberta from India and I have done my doctorate in Psychology.
Kindly guide how i can get license for therapist
If you have a GI bill, and government programs that will pay for you to get a doctorate would you choose that over a masters?
Could you explain how to get a license only with a Masters degree in US? I am currently doing my Bachelors in India and I am really confused whether I should skip my masters n do a Psy.D or should In just do masters and stop
Hi. I am from India. I did my bachelors in Psychology and now I want to shift to Forensic Psychology in the States. Is Masters enough to get licensed and work as Forensic Psychologist or earning a Docrorate is a must? Because don't honestly don't wish to pursue a doctorate at theoment considering the costs and the loans. I am so confused. I don't know how to proceed. If someone can help, that'll be great. 🙏🌸
thanks for the video! whats your take when you factor in insurance or benefits and having autonomy. from my understanding master level students have to be supervised by a psychologist in most states correct? they also have to have their client pay out of pocket vs. covered by insurance benefits?
Master level students can be supervised by a masters level clinician with a supervisor license. Also, masters level students take out of pocket pay and can take some Medicaid insurances.
which is more preffered in case if i want to go towards academics(Professor) post?
For international people with masters from abroad , can we start our own practice in usa after clearing licencing ?
I am currently applying to a masters program in clinical mental health counseling but my goal is a PhD just to be the first in my family to go all the way. My thinking is since I have to work fulltime while going to school, do the before mentioned masters online and switch careers sooner. In addition the hours in that field can be very flexible while working towards a PhD. I am leaning towards a PhD in clinical psychology with a specialization in forensic psychology since I already work in the law enforcement field. hm
That’s 😎
😊 I like that.
What is the right path for me to take to become an LCSW? I know that for an LMHS, I can get my MA in mental health counseling, and an LMSW gets an MA in social work, what goes for LCSW? Do I need do get my doctorate? Any info from anyone would be greatly appreciated!
What percentage of payments come through direct payment from clients versus from insurance? By how much do insurance rates paid differ when paid to PhD versus Masters degree therapists?
What about Masters and license in social work (LiCSW) ?
What is the income of psychologists with a doctorate in New York based on your observations and experiences?....thanks.
Is there any difference from where or how they work? Also do psychologists with a master’s degree wear a white coat?
I think where the earning potential of the doctorate in private practice becomes starkly different is in performing forensic and similar examinations. That $1,000 bill for a life coach would be a normal amount for many exams someone with a doctorate could charge for.
You’re absolutely right! And I think is also an excellent reason to pursue a doctorate as opposed to a masters since the additional training is absolutely necessary in this case
@@PrivatePracticeSkills how much do Psychologists make who do assessments?
Hello I recently just got out of the army and pursing my bachelors in psychology which is payed for but will have to pay for my masters/phd and am wondering what are some ways to significantly lower the cost of graduate programs?
maybe consider this, since the GI bill covers the undergrad, you use that time and get to know your psychology professors better. Seek out a lab or research position with one of them gaining experience and letters of recommendation. If you are looking to be a psychologist then PhDs are usually fully funded for the entire program, so that means NO tuition while you get paid a stipend sometimes up to 20-30k a year as a research assistant, teaching assistant etc. for the school. Some folks do use more loans for living expenses but you may not need to. In short getting a PhD can be done without incurring large debt, it’s extremely competitive but so are you. Talk with your professors and reach out to local psychologists for info closer to home. Hope that helped- Semper Fi
"Then you're totally screwed" 😂
It’s all about business acumen
The difference between a psychologist and a MFT is similar to a doctor and a nurse.
I’m 55 and was thinking it would be a breeze to get a master’s online and be a counselor for an online company like BetterHelp or TalkSpace. I’m finding out I’d have to work for 3,000 hours somewhere post-Master’s before I could get the license that TalkSpace requires for its counselors. Think I’ll just go straight from stay-at-home mom to retired person. 😜
Lol.
You are soo cute love you always thanks for the lovely video😇
Aw thanks so much!
Hello! What kind of accreditation should I be looking for in master level programs in mental health counseling? Some programs say they are accredited by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences. Ideally, should these programs be accredited by CACREP? I am looking to be a licensed therapist in the state of California. If you have any answers or information regarding this, I will appreciate it so much!
CACREP is the gold standard in accreditation. Anything else is a crapshoot.
I understood while in school that CACREP was the only programs some states recognized. I’m a LPC and School Counselor .
I’m debating between an LMFT and MD in psychiatry.... I currently have no debt and this would be a 2nd career for me....do you think being a psychiatrist is the top mental health practitioner in that they can understand both biological and emotional components of the mind? Which do you think would be a better option for me given my circumstance? I feel conflicted and just want to make the best decision. THNX
You do know you're comparing 4 years of med school + a 3 year residency for psychiatry to a 2 year program for LMFT right? No hate, they're just very different paths!
Not to mention it is likely that you'd be making as much as therapist with PhD. Psychiatrist often learn less than mental health nurses here in UK. Lol
I really want to go into academia, like become a university level professor. Wouldn’t a master level degree limit that for me?
Yes, a doctorate (PhD usually, sometimes a PsyD) would be needed for a tenure track position. If you wanted to just be an adjunct (much less money and stability), you may be able to just have a masters.
Thank you for this information. Interesting. Any difference in the cost among masters level clinicians with doctorate degrees? For example, PhD LCSW or LMFT?
This is late, but social work is unique in that graduates of accredited bachelor's level social work programs are eligible for a 1-year advanced standing master of social work, so that's one difference when comparing time & cost of these three degrees.
I meant specifically masters prepared clinicians with doctorates compared to the traditional psychologist with a doctorate. Her video talks about PhD psychologists among masters level folks. I am wondering about the masters people who are comparable. Is that what you’re saying too? Like other clinicians who may have doctoral degrees. For example, an LCSW may have a PhD in social work or a DSW. What about those pay differences compared to traditional psychologist with PhD and PsyDs?
@@vanessaphd Oh my gosh, I'm sorry I misread that! That's a good question. There are several factors that go into pay differences between these other degrees at the master's vs. doctorate level. Unlike LPCs vs psychologists, there aren't a whole lot of differences in what you can and can't do at each level with the LMFT and LCSW. Another important point is that there exists no licensure at the doctorate level for these fields, so even if you earn a DFMT, DSW, or PhD, you'll still be licensed at the master's level, but with doctorate education.
Some of the other factors that go into pay difference here include the years overall that one has been in the field (even if some of that time was just as a master's-level clinician), additional training and certification, specialization(s) and niche(s), location, saturation of/lack of providers in the area.
While I'm sure there is a documented difference in salary/pay between doctorate-educated LMFTs and LCSWs, in private practice, there isn't going to be as dramatic as one might imagine, all other factors considered. Although both levels of education can allow one to teach at a college level, I would imagine doctorate-holders are more qualified/attractive for those positions, or more interested in the first place, and perhaps also more qualified/attractive as leaders in clinics and other programs.
So, I would cautiously predict that pay differences are going to be more dramatic if we look at salaries overall, vs. just looking at private practice potential alone. In fact, the advice given to most students is that if you're just looking to go into private practice, it's not worth it financially to earn your doctorate.
I hope this helps!
@@paxc.6046 no problem lol. Yes, I was just curious. I imagine it depends on the job description and how the person negotiates a salary based on their expertise and education. It will be gold whenever we do get some data on those kinds of differences. It seems like masters-level licensed clinicians with doctorate degrees in a non-clinical psychology discipline is becoming more commonly seen in the workplace.
@@vanessaphd Yes, I think you are right. DSWs for example were very popular in the 60s and 70s before the PhD in social work even existed, and then they phased out of fashion, but now we are seeing rapid expansion of DSW programs. I hope we see in the future doctorate-level licensure options for these groups, and fairer insurance reimbursement commensurate with doctorate-level education!
I’m currently doing my Masters and it will be $150k by the time I’m done. I’m really interested in doing research, but I’m only doing a PhD if I get into a fully funded program.
same here. Pepperdine $133k
@@lorna3240 I’m at Pepperdine too lol.
What if you have both?
Do doctors who have both have an advantage when it comes to job market and salary?
To clarify masters+doctorate vs just doctorate?
Interesting question! I'm not sure to be honest. My hunch though is that a company looking to hire masters-level therapists may feel they still need to pay someone with a doctorate at doctorate-level pay. I'm not actually sure though!
Personally I have both, but I only have a doctorate level licensure. I suppose if I didn't have a psychologist license and I got a masters-level license, then I'd effectively be practicing at the Master's level. So maybe a question is more where you've opted to focus your licensure more than the degree itself?
@@PrivatePracticeSkills
Hmm... interesting. Thanks so much for your reply!
It is common to get a masters enroute to a doctorate. I have a doctorate in clinical psych, but a masters in behavior analysis (a different, billable field). This makes me very valuable. But I orchestrated it this way. A masters in counseling and a doctorate in clinical- not much difference except for the added testing knowledge, which you would want to be reimbursed for.
@@briananderson2466 What about a Master's in Developmental Psych and applying for a Clinical PsyD?
Hahaha 😂 I'm a trained life coach actually looking to apply for a master's in psychology 🙏 and I wonder why aren't psychologist charging the same as a life coach when u are clearly better equipped then those ego bloated coaches 🔥
The only difference in marketing is having the “DR” in your title.
Wait. But the only thing that matters is how much insurance companies pay in your area.
This could be true for some insurance-based practices. Some insurance companies pay a percentage of your rate. Other insurance companies pay a flat rate that is different depending on a therapist's credentials. It does really depend on the insurance panel though. And of course, doesn't apply to cash-based practices. I hope this helps!
Thanks for saving me over 100k
Does insurance pay more for PhD vs Masters degrees?
I have the same question
Probably. Very good question
🐬
So then, if I may ask, why did *you* decide to get a doctorate? What are the pros?
Would love to hear this
E D but is the earning potential that much different?
You also have a chance to be more independent, you can teach at universities when you get older and what not
In addition to extensive training in therapy, psychologists also train in assessment, so they can do things like forensic evaluations, psychodiagnostic assessment, neuro assessment, and health assessment, like presurgical evaluations. They also have a fair-to-extensive amount of research experience, because all doctorates require a dissertation; research/teaching experience does open doors to becoming university faculty. And if you want to work in a specialty area of psychology, such as health psych, forensic, child assessment, or neuro, you're likely going to need a doctorate. I think this video really nails home one important message: if what you want to do is therapy and only therapy, getting a master's will likely save money. If you want more extensive and broad training in core areas of psychology (assessment, treatment, research, supervision, teaching) in order to open doors to the variety of work settings and roles that psychologists can hold, then a doctorate is likely necessary.
Raven, you made a good decision… PhD’s are only good for people who are wanting to teach at a university, produce studies and develop theories or be some type of professor in some area or another from what I’ve seen. It’s more of a clout thing for private practice… CEU in keep g up to date with your best licensure can do that for you too. The only thing I would add to this video is that during these times of Covid, there’s not a lot of disposable income to go around so if somebody is spending money on therapy, I think it means that they are very motivated to participate. Just my thoughts good luck and comments no I am a licensed professional counselor with a Masters of arts I’m a level two trauma therapist and a certified mental health integrative medical health
Professional and my husband is an ER physician and this, I had an inside look at things and how they work… Just pay her dues work at the hospital for whenever you need to get your internship and then open your own private practice. It’s totally worth it
For me, I’ve had better experiences with PhD counselors