Yeah all these people bitching that we can actually kill things when heaven forbid we are within 1 percent of the stated sweet spot you want win rate to be. It's especially annoying when it's coming from imperium players who have had really cheap nuke you with reroll melta squads this whole edition. "wait what you can hit me back?"
The rupture cannon is not “basically 2 railgun shots” it’s only ap-4, doesn’t have dev wounds, and doesn’t have any innate rerolls. Also tau get ignore cover way easier, Tfex only gets it with a crusher strat.
It is basically a magna rail cannon, if you asked votann to give up dev wounds for BS 3 and heavy and ANOTHER shot they would take it in a heartbeat. That said, it still isn't fantastic for the same reason the magna rails aren't. Low volume and invulns abound.
Last game i played against my friends dark angels, my vortex beast survived a bunch of tanks and hellblasters turn 3, then proceeded to casino cannon his repulsor for 12 wounds, killing it. It then ate a bunch of bolters next turn and survived on 1 wound until the bottom of turn 5 😂. It was a sight to behold
Shadow sword doesn’t really do much to great unclean one with gift, it takes 3-4 turns on average to kill depending on how lucky or unlucky the 4++ and 4+++ are
@@Avinan7 I think players have gotten used to the “spam scoring but immediately roll over and die” meta of tyranids in 10th. They’re a fun army to fight because they’re unequivocally the bad guys, they don’t hit hard at all, and your opponent gets to remove a lot of models even with monster heavy lists. Many games early in 10th ended with tyranids being tabled or close to. Now that scoring has been reduced but they received some honest to god lethality (Still nothing compared to many other armies) it can be a hard pill to swallow.
I'm gonna reallllly need you guys to not overhype the Tyrannofex for us. We JUST got some actual reliable anti-tank shooting for a reasonable price. I need us to not lose this thing. It's my favorite shooting piece.
maleceptor is good, but it does NOT need a stat line nerf. like.... what? nids are lower mid-tier even with Maleceptor spam. their melee is weak, and the blast profile means they cant shoot into their own combat. they will almost always be on a 4+ save since they have a 3+.
They probably know more than me, but as a tyranid player I can say I’ve noticed since the update many people call for nerfs on the nids since we went from only scoring to win to actually somewhat being able to punch back. I had a guys ragequit 2 different games turn 2 where admittedly I rolled extremely well and he made close to no saves on the rupture cannon and basically got told “Are you happy ya’ll cried hard enough to daddy that he gave you all op bullshit” or a variation of the same thing. I’m a casual player completely, but even I can see people are calling for nerfs cause they were used to a completely different game type with nids. I agree that nerfing the maleceptor would be unnecessary.
@@DaveMcMuffin 1st, those are terrible players to play with, sorry about that. 2, i think it's funny that all these other factions can do WAY more than a rupture cannon every turn and no one cared. i think people got too used to being able to shoot nids off the board with little to no punchback, and are upset they dont get their power fantasy when facing nids. but we're at 47% winrate with i think 3 event wins? so it's not like we're OP at all. people just complain cause they cant steamroll us as easily.
I think of the three Nids monsters on the list, the Exocrine is the only one that should get anything. It could stand to go up 10 points and probably be fine. The other two being good is good. Nids and Daemons are THE monster factions, their Monsters should feel monstrous
They routinely seem to over estimate tyranids strength and I think it comes down to 3 things. The first is they play against John lennons tyranids a lot, who is one of the best tyranids players in the world. They’re playing against tyranids being played perfectly, not tyranids being played by even an average competitive player. Stuff seems way stronger when you only ever see it played perfectly. The second is that Tyranids have tools to help them score and win games competitively, which skews them towards high skill, which sort of ties into the previous point, they’re playing against them being played at peak skill a lot for the time, and tyranids have a lot to variation in effectiveness even between different skill levels in competitive play, not to mention how much difference there is between competitive and causal. The third reason somewhat ties into the previous point, but tyranids don’t rely on being good at killing stuff very much to win right now, they more rely on their shenanigans that can help them to score and prevent the enemy from scoring, so when people see them do both that but also kill some stuff they think something broken they dislike it because their perception of tyranids is they might be able to outscore you but they can’t actually really hurt you. So I think they often overestimate the effectiveness of tyranids both for the reasons that people generally perceive tyranids to be a scoring army that can’t do damage (which side note I hate this as their identity, they should be a super Killy army that generally sucks at ignoring killing to instead score points, make my Killy bugs Killy), and they specially overestimate them because they only really play against tyranids played nearly perfectly by one of the best tyranid players in the world.
Just found a store with a stash of Vortex Beasts. Sometimes stores will still have it under the other build of Slaughterbrute . and wonder why no one is picking them up. :|
@@pauljan2521 I've got a local guy who's basically a diamond in the rough Warhammer dealer who gets alot of sweet pre orders and niche models whenever he can. I've gotten 3 vortex beasts from him within a year lol
1:10:40 you mention that Angron can +1 to wound and reroll 1 to wounds, I assume you're talking about the stratagem that gives him +1 to wound against monsters and vehicles and the eightbound aura, correct?
Nids dont need nerfs atm leave them be and see what happens with other armies, nids really only have a couple good tank killers and wanting them nerfed will drop the win rate by 5% easily....if they do buff venom cannons strength up to compensate.
The winged Chaos Demon Demon Prince can be kind of a beatstick. As Khorne with Ar'gath he has the cute amount of 11 attacks at S12 and with sustained or lethal or precision.
I feel like your putting disrespect on Vashtorr. T10, 2+ sv, 4+ invul. 14 wounds. 12" move. Hazardous reaction. If not in monster hes a beast character. All for 190
Morty should have probably been included. For 325 pts he's tough if you just don't overexpose it to all the enemy weapons at the begining and you heal 3 wounds with the cp. And the ignores modifiers aura can ruin some armies plans.
Trying to understand this list a bit more because if by cost I understand slightly. But arguing the ability to add a 235 Tyrant for assault/lethals, 135 Exocrine for rerolls, blast weapons so no BGNT for 2/3, and a strat in one detachment for them to be annoying compared to named C'tan or Morty loses me.
135 exocrine murders basically any and every elite infantry unit in the game while being pointed competitively. Nids are fine but they are fine because their good units carry their codex and the rest kinda suck
You guys need to chill on your tyranids need a nerf propaganda. We get it, John Lennon is really good at tyranids and beats people a lot. But just because tyranids played perfectly is hard to beat doesn’t mean they need a nerf 😂
@@wischfulthinking They're so playable man. Use the lion with 15 deathwing knights, suddenly their 1 weakness (mortals) they take half damage!! Just take gladius task force and the guy can advance and charge. 14" then charge from behind a wall now
what? redemptor has a flamer, rocket pod, over charged plasma wep that has more ap and 3 dmg, and a twin linked grenade launcher. plus, it has -1 to dmg ability, access to AOC, rerolls from oath, and tons of other buffs depending on your detachment. in what world does a redemptor do 25% the dmg of an exo? edit: i didnt even talk about it's ridiculously better melee compared to exo. charge an exo and it's neutralize. charge a redemptor and it kills you on the clapback if you dont kill it.
I swear to god if you two get Tyranids nerfed i will fly to Florida and give you both a stern talking to.
really hope the tyranid monsters do not get nerfed. Nids are in a great spot right now at 49% winrate
Yeah all these people bitching that we can actually kill things when heaven forbid we are within 1 percent of the stated sweet spot you want win rate to be. It's especially annoying when it's coming from imperium players who have had really cheap nuke you with reroll melta squads this whole edition. "wait what you can hit me back?"
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The rupture cannon is not “basically 2 railgun shots” it’s only ap-4, doesn’t have dev wounds, and doesn’t have any innate rerolls. Also tau get ignore cover way easier, Tfex only gets it with a crusher strat.
It is basically a magna rail cannon, if you asked votann to give up dev wounds for BS 3 and heavy and ANOTHER shot they would take it in a heartbeat. That said, it still isn't fantastic for the same reason the magna rails aren't. Low volume and invulns abound.
Pyrovore
Last game i played against my friends dark angels, my vortex beast survived a bunch of tanks and hellblasters turn 3, then proceeded to casino cannon his repulsor for 12 wounds, killing it. It then ate a bunch of bolters next turn and survived on 1 wound until the bottom of turn 5 😂. It was a sight to behold
Shadow sword doesn’t really do much to great unclean one with gift, it takes 3-4 turns on average to kill depending on how lucky or unlucky the 4++ and 4+++ are
Mutalith Vortex beast out here living his best life after years gathering dust
Hey now leave the nids alone we’re allowed to have good units too sometimes 😂
@@Avinan7 I think players have gotten used to the “spam scoring but immediately roll over and die” meta of tyranids in 10th. They’re a fun army to fight because they’re unequivocally the bad guys, they don’t hit hard at all, and your opponent gets to remove a lot of models even with monster heavy lists. Many games early in 10th ended with tyranids being tabled or close to. Now that scoring has been reduced but they received some honest to god lethality (Still nothing compared to many other armies) it can be a hard pill to swallow.
@@WILLGRAYY PREACH
I'm gonna reallllly need you guys to not overhype the Tyrannofex for us. We JUST got some actual reliable anti-tank shooting for a reasonable price. I need us to not lose this thing. It's my favorite shooting piece.
maleceptor is good, but it does NOT need a stat line nerf. like.... what? nids are lower mid-tier even with Maleceptor spam. their melee is weak, and the blast profile means they cant shoot into their own combat. they will almost always be on a 4+ save since they have a 3+.
They probably know more than me, but as a tyranid player I can say I’ve noticed since the update many people call for nerfs on the nids since we went from only scoring to win to actually somewhat being able to punch back. I had a guys ragequit 2 different games turn 2 where admittedly I rolled extremely well and he made close to no saves on the rupture cannon and basically got told “Are you happy ya’ll cried hard enough to daddy that he gave you all op bullshit” or a variation of the same thing. I’m a casual player completely, but even I can see people are calling for nerfs cause they were used to a completely different game type with nids. I agree that nerfing the maleceptor would be unnecessary.
Yeah would be wild to nerf one of our few durable units.
@@DaveMcMuffin 1st, those are terrible players to play with, sorry about that. 2, i think it's funny that all these other factions can do WAY more than a rupture cannon every turn and no one cared. i think people got too used to being able to shoot nids off the board with little to no punchback, and are upset they dont get their power fantasy when facing nids.
but we're at 47% winrate with i think 3 event wins? so it's not like we're OP at all. people just complain cause they cant steamroll us as easily.
I think of the three Nids monsters on the list, the Exocrine is the only one that should get anything. It could stand to go up 10 points and probably be fine. The other two being good is good. Nids and Daemons are THE monster factions, their Monsters should feel monstrous
They routinely seem to over estimate tyranids strength and I think it comes down to 3 things.
The first is they play against John lennons tyranids a lot, who is one of the best tyranids players in the world. They’re playing against tyranids being played perfectly, not tyranids being played by even an average competitive player. Stuff seems way stronger when you only ever see it played perfectly.
The second is that Tyranids have tools to help them score and win games competitively, which skews them towards high skill, which sort of ties into the previous point, they’re playing against them being played at peak skill a lot for the time, and tyranids have a lot to variation in effectiveness even between different skill levels in competitive play, not to mention how much difference there is between competitive and causal.
The third reason somewhat ties into the previous point, but tyranids don’t rely on being good at killing stuff very much to win right now, they more rely on their shenanigans that can help them to score and prevent the enemy from scoring, so when people see them do both that but also kill some stuff they think something broken they dislike it because their perception of tyranids is they might be able to outscore you but they can’t actually really hurt you.
So I think they often overestimate the effectiveness of tyranids both for the reasons that people generally perceive tyranids to be a scoring army that can’t do damage (which side note I hate this as their identity, they should be a super Killy army that generally sucks at ignoring killing to instead score points, make my Killy bugs Killy), and they specially overestimate them because they only really play against tyranids played nearly perfectly by one of the best tyranid players in the world.
Your vehicle list better complain about lancers more than tyranids. 😂😅
Just found a store with a stash of Vortex Beasts. Sometimes stores will still have it under the other build of Slaughterbrute . and wonder why no one is picking them up. :|
@@pauljan2521 I've got a local guy who's basically a diamond in the rough Warhammer dealer who gets alot of sweet pre orders and niche models whenever he can. I've gotten 3 vortex beasts from him within a year lol
Here’s hoping World Eaters get access to Slaughterbrutes in their codex!
1:10:40 you mention that Angron can +1 to wound and reroll 1 to wounds, I assume you're talking about the stratagem that gives him +1 to wound against monsters and vehicles and the eightbound aura, correct?
Yes!
Nids dont need nerfs atm leave them be and see what happens with other armies, nids really only have a couple good tank killers and wanting them nerfed will drop the win rate by 5% easily....if they do buff venom cannons strength up to compensate.
The winged Chaos Demon Demon Prince can be kind of a beatstick. As Khorne with Ar'gath he has the cute amount of 11 attacks at S12 and with sustained or lethal or precision.
Thanks Jack and Quinton
As index sisters i took out GUO in one turn without committing my entire army. I think it was a castigator, an exorcist and a Vaulgon unit.
We are cancelling the apocalypse!
Pacific Rim is great
Great Unclean ones are better in a Chaos Knights army than their own big Knights.
Oh finally a top 10 that Sisters don't get thrown under the bus for being good.
The best I did vs the avatar was two riptides that did their once per game dev shots and just picked him up
My Avatar got one-shot but a single Breacher-fish, which is actually not far from their average output from Guide and strat support.
The second game I played against tyranids they had 2 maleceptors and I was playing world eaters…they and the 1 tyrannofex just wouldn’t die
Angron, a wardog I brought, and my eightbound were below half next to it :/
GUO? Dies to Stompa. (A totally viable and likely to be able to position to shoot it unit)
I feel like your putting disrespect on Vashtorr. T10, 2+ sv, 4+ invul. 14 wounds. 12" move. Hazardous reaction. If not in monster hes a beast character. All for 190
Bloodthirster didn’t rate even an honorable mention?
Keeper and Kairos being the second and third Daemon monsters is crazy
Morty should have probably been included. For 325 pts he's tough if you just don't overexpose it to all the enemy weapons at the begining and you heal 3 wounds with the cp. And the ignores modifiers aura can ruin some armies plans.
Disagree, Morty is very mediocre. Needs at least 7 attacks.
@TheBlightspawn For it's points it's fine and it's purpose it's not to be a damage dealer.
Trying to understand this list a bit more because if by cost I understand slightly. But arguing the ability to add a 235 Tyrant for assault/lethals, 135 Exocrine for rerolls, blast weapons so no BGNT for 2/3, and a strat in one detachment for them to be annoying compared to named C'tan or Morty loses me.
135 exocrine murders basically any and every elite infantry unit in the game while being pointed competitively. Nids are fine but they are fine because their good units carry their codex and the rest kinda suck
No way Fateweaver is better than Skarbrand, Bloodthirster with Angrath, Rotigus, or even a LOC with Everstave 😂
Keeper of secrets 5fnp?
@@marknicklin2694 with the shield wargear option, instead of the whip or knife
You guys need to chill on your tyranids need a nerf propaganda. We get it, John Lennon is really good at tyranids and beats people a lot. But just because tyranids played perfectly is hard to beat doesn’t mean they need a nerf 😂
Chest horns wins. haha
gw is unable to make loyal primarchs playable
@@wischfulthinking They're so playable man.
Use the lion with 15 deathwing knights, suddenly their 1 weakness (mortals) they take half damage!!
Just take gladius task force and the guy can advance and charge. 14" then charge from behind a wall now
Tell me how a redemptor is 210 with a quarter of the damage output of a 130 exocrine 😂
what? redemptor has a flamer, rocket pod, over charged plasma wep that has more ap and 3 dmg, and a twin linked grenade launcher. plus, it has -1 to dmg ability, access to AOC, rerolls from oath, and tons of other buffs depending on your detachment. in what world does a redemptor do 25% the dmg of an exo?
edit: i didnt even talk about it's ridiculously better melee compared to exo. charge an exo and it's neutralize. charge a redemptor and it kills you on the clapback if you dont kill it.