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In a weird coincidence. Tuesdays are the start of my work week so I always start my workday listening to Poorhammer. Oddly enough I start my work on Sunday this week and they also upload. It’s like they knew.
Jokes on you with that "it doesnt matter for 99% of the casual players" - i'm in the 1% of people who dont even play Warhammer and are just here for the funny goofs
I'm in the % of people who played a bit with their brother ages back, kinda tries to keep up, and is really disappointed that blast templates don't exist anymore. (It feels so weird that if artillery fires and misses, it just doesn't do anything. Compared to the old version, where you'd throw a die to get a direction and distance, move the marker in accordance, and whatever's there gets blasted instead. Sure, it limited the blast range to existing markers, you'd have people arguing endlessly about the precise movement, and the marker circle will break off spears and servoskulls, but it just feels right, y'know?)
As much as I don't enjoy playing the game "League of Legends" I will concede that they set the gold standard for patch notes, esspecially with how frequently they update their game. Every single facet of the game that gets changed gets explained in the format of: - Goal for changes - Summary of changes - Detailed changes - Notes for how/why detailed changes were made, as well as any fringe interactions. - How they're gonna be measuring success for the goals
They give explanations. It’s just that 90% of it is either lies or just wrong reading of data and they assume the the playerbase they give this info to are ignorant to that.
@@vinnythewebsurfer Tbf a large amount of humans just straight up do not understand things on the level they think they do in general. League's player base especially is one of the most delusional I've ever experienced.
I still find it crazy that League still runs on a *HEAVILY* modified Riot Engine. Note: Riot Games is named _after_ the engine, not the other way around. They also got their logo from it as well. The original developers of the engine? Surreal Software.
YOUR WARNING IS FALSE, I AM A CASUAL PLAYER AND NOW I CAN BRING ASSAULT TERMINATORS TO BOARDING ACTION WITHOUT ACCEPTING I HAVE TO BE VERY SHORT OF 500 POINTS AND MY HEART SWELLS WITH JOY
Boarding action singlehandedly pushing me to get into 40k. I love Killteam, but I can't use the models that give me dopamine. A 500 point game with big ol bots however...
Not to kill your joy, but you can't use most of the big models in boarding actions. It is very focused on infantry. Get the book, or at least browse the detachments.
There’s a partial fix for GSC’s Cult Ambush from the new Sigmar edition: if a unit dies, it comes back with half the models (rounded down). Simply add a little extra line stating, “If an Infantry unit drops below 5 models, it is destroyed.” Did you cheap out with a 5 Acolyte Hybrids? They don’t get to come back. Did you spend the big points for a full 10 Aberrants? They come back at half strength. Did you bring a 20 model unit of Neophytes? They can come back multiple times; However, unlike the start of the edition, they’re going to be weaker each time. If a certain unit is too strong with a guaranteed Cult Ambush while the 5-man unit is perfectly balanced, GW can increase the cost of the 10-man while keeping the 5-man the same. It’s another balance lever to add an extra points cost to Cult Ambush when necessary. Bonus: GW can add a “Vehicle/Mounted units can be reduced to one model (rounded down) compared the Infantry’s five models” to get Atalan Jackals and Achilles Ridgerunners in on the action. Max Jackals becomes 6 models, then 3, then 1. Max Ridgerunners becomes 3 models, then 1. Goliath vehicles would remain unaffected because half of a single model rounded down is zero. Edit: Fixed some grammar. I also added the vehicle/mounted rule I was considering since I forgot to mention it. The idea is an easy update to an existing rule-which has already been tested in a parallel system-to make it easy to remember, easy to explain to your opponent mid-battle, not reliant on random chance, and keeping it thematic. Personally, having played both sides of the “nothing comes back” and “everything comes back” scenarios as a consequence of random chance, neither scenario is fun.
Penalizing MSU is kinda silly, especially since most GSC lists take a healthy mix of minimum maximum sized squads anyways. The ojly reason outlander claw specifically doesn't is bc they use vehicles instead In the index, getting full sized squads back was not an issue bc characters (namely in this case Primuses) don't come back, so the damage output was nowhere near the same. Once the points were adjusted and the autobattline revive was taken away, we stayed in the winrate target window all the way to the codex. I'd prefer if cult ambush was somewhat reliable (3+, regardless of unit) and we had to go back to using blips but its a 6 inch radius to delete/come in from instesd of 9. Our internal balance is pretty good rn and we have tons of options for listbuilding, sp anything for cult ambush that changes what you want to bring is the wrong move imo
Nah that doesn't really sit right with me. Already our army rule only applies to what 7 of our units and the solution is to limit it further? Even if coming back was guaranteed and the units were priced higher I'd rather have the units be cheaper and take more of them to have at the start rather than have the tax and maybe it'll come up in time to be worth the extra points. From the people I have talked to units coming back is just an unpopular/unfun mechanic to face and GW seems to also be moving in that direction with squashing of reinforcement like stratagems. I hope they just remove it and give us something that represents planning and preparation, with options that could be made before each battle. ie Select 1 or 2 from the following: We flood the battle field making the enemy infantry and vehicles slog through a mire, slowing their movement We have set up and mapped reinforced cover positions allowing to double cover bonus We have tainted the water and air weakening our foes, lowering strength or weapon or ballistic skill Pre-targeted Artillery allowing some sort of indirect fire mitigation False Intel: Can move primus' redeploy ability here and get rid of something that is redundant for multiple primus It would have to be balanced/tested and have more thought put through it but just something that makes me think "We are not a regular army, we are not going to fight fair" instead of "We have more bodies than you have bullets."
27:00 I think the problem with Space Marines' Codex is that it was written with a lot more potential overlap for effective datasheets compared to other Codexes. You could take just about any 2k list of SM and slot in a few potential detachments to modify the playstyle of that list, but the detachment in every other Codex DEFINES the play style and list building. SM players are playing the game backwards from everyone else, and no one seems to agree on how to fix it.
@@timiturret148 you are correct. Both Brad and Bricky are chaos enjoyers who don't especially like loyalist Marines. Brad especially doesn't care for "snowflake chapters" with special detachments and rules. Tldr; yes
I think it's just a redundant argument at this point. Everyone knows the divergent chapters are objectively better because they're more spoiled for choice, so it's like "Yeah, these guys who were just good got nerfed because they're good. Duh." And I respect that. I just wish the community was more solution-oriented instead of parroting the problem. To act as an example I guess: divergent chapters needs to be locked out of compliant detachments. To me, that's an easy fix, paired with some much needed buffs for the weaker divergent detachments.
@@soffren It fells not good to be honest, if they talk about everything, especially every other divergent chapter and then leave one out. It is their podcast, and they can whatever they want, but that feels just bad.
As an apparently rare literate World Eater, modern WEs lore-wise are yolo charge. Evaporating melee targets is also part of it, but the nails mean there is no real strategy and they get themselves killed all of the time. The gladiator stuff is mostly pre-nails, amongst each other, or exceptions like Gladiator Cadre 331. RUclips seems to not be sending my reply, so I'll just add this edit. "[The Butcher's Nails] pound relentlessly, demanding blood and slaughter, and the World Eaters are only too willing to acquiesce... Khorne Berzerkers charge headlong into the foe... Obsessed with butchery, the World Eaters hack apart any who stand before them... These beasts of war are a fast-moving force that surge to get up-close and personal with the foe" - 9th edition WE codex
^This. If we were talking about Horus Heresy World Eaters, Bricky would have a point. If we're talking modern 40K, after 10,000 years of going Full Khorne, No. No, they're not gladiators. They're a mob of crazed berserkers who know little of tactics and even less of their history. The World Eaters "Legion" in the Era Indomitus is what happens when you lower your standards for Inductii to the fucking floor, and just keep doing that for millennia. That's what makes the World Eaters tragic. They lost everything they had, and now only have Rage.
@@vahlok2568 "Khorne Berzerkers charge headlong into the foe, bellowing war cries and oaths to the Blood God and his Skull Throne... Obsessed with butchery, the World Eaters hack apart any who stand before them, rendering all up as offerings to Khorne. These beasts of war are a fast-moving force that surge to get up-close and personal with the foe" - 9th edition codex Some, like Gladiator Cadre 331, do maintain old traditions and don't fully succumb to nails. This is an exception though, not the rule.
One thing I remembered when you mentioned the forgefiend got nerfed because of a tournament skew list is that you guys didn't cover Black Templars. It's ok I forgive you but, our crusader squads got murdered because of the black tide list with 120 crusaders winning a tournament so now I have something other than not getting a model release in the last 5 minutes to cry about.
GW saw a Space Marine list win a tournament without even one Gladiator Lancer in sight and they needed to crack down on that immediately, because if you run power armor you need at least 3 fucking tanks on the field if you want to compete apparently.
SM's problem is the detachments and sometimes the lack of unit options for those detachments, yeah. The non-ultramarines first-founding chapters need more characters, and you need an incentive to play pure vanilla (no first founding chapters) or at least codex compliant SM. IDK about locking divergent chapter units to their detachments, but I could see it maybe work.
Love the little Zs coming out of Bricky when Chaos Demons came up! It's the visual details that accent the dynamic of the hosts that really push Poorhammer up to being my favorite podcast, keep up the great work y'all!
Brad - "I'm your host brad and here is my co-host bricky" (cool cool everything is normal so far.) Bricky with the deepest sexiest voice - "hows it going" (wtf that's not Eric! oh right balance changes that means bricky is here.)
Just like the Time Bandits episode, my favorite episodes are the ones where Brad laughs the hardest. Eric too, but in Brad's laugh I can hear the tears as he doubles over. As someone who has never played the tabletop and understands very little about it, I enjoy the podcast most for your guy's dry sense of humor and the fact that I don't hear the tone of voice that conveys forced hype. I include Borelio in this too with the way he edits the episodes. Berelio? Birelio? Byrelio?
Dark angels are ran in gladius because our whole codex, even with the buffs, just doesn't work at all. inner circle task force looks good at first seeing the repulsors and dreadnoughts get the deathwing keyword until you realize the only rule they actually benefit from is a 4+ fight on death stratagem...
I so desperately want a rules rewrite of the Praetors. They're one of the coolest plastic models available for us, yet they have the worst rules synergy I've ever seen. It's especially egregious in Custodes' case, where our whole shtick is powerful datasheet abilities that give each unit a specialized role, and then the Praetors just... firebomb someone for at most 6 mortals, or charging a bastard and then dealing twice that much fairly reliably. Also Eric can continue coping, seething, and malding over the superiority of the Telemon. He can cry about it to Shalaxi, but that won't change the fact that we have the best dreadnought model in the game.
Brad acts like space marine players are so beneath him like he isn't literally playing a space marine faction. Just because you're chaos doesn't mean you aren't also literally playing big guys in power armor
Part of the reason they can’t lock space marine divergent chapters to their own detachments is because they refuse to actually make a full codex. They only get like 3 detachments, and use the normal space marine army rule. They could easily just make them their own army rule and just have generic marines be includable, and then give them a normal number of detachments and it would be ok. But as is if for instance dark angels were locked to their own detachments they only have 3, and because gw can’t design or balance 40k stuff for shit, one of those detachments only really does stuff if you’re battleshocked which you never are, one detachment is actually good but literally only has 2 units that are generalist units that can make use of the abilities, and they both kinda suck, and one is actually good but it’s still pretty limited in who it can benefit. You just can’t really actually play a decent dark angels list in its detachments because they’re all kinda trash.
I don’t know why I thought bricky said “wh*rehammer” dice, but now I want a short episode where the crew just review the new slaanesh range with sex workers on as guests who know nothing about warhammer
as Space Wolfs player, from the first day I always said that Stormlance was not supposed to bu used with TWC. They gave the list of generic SM to a group of dudes and asked them to come up with rules, and the only mounted units they saw was bikes. (at the time there were 3 units) This is so clear and transparent, you just get it by reading to the strats. example, full throttle: they gave something to boost advance, but the bikes already had that, so they added 9" if you are mounted. nobody intended to have a massive wolf run like mad max.
I have long said Khorne doesn't specifically wish he had been able to corrupt the Blood Angels rather than the World Eaters, but he sure wishes he could convert a few of the Blood Angels tournament players to pilot his armies.
So on top of the Silent King not having triarchy for a year, THE COMMAND BARGE, WITH AN OVERLORD ON TOP, DOES NOT HAVE THE NOBLE KEYWORD FOR THE PHALANX EITHER
Death Guard got a huge buff in the form of the infection clarification - once we infect a point, its always infected and we can regain the infection by simply making sure the opponent doesn't control the objective point - so battleshock from Plagueburst Crawlers can work. We can also reactivate Nurgle's Gift over the infected point by gaining control of an infected point - most notably it doesn't have to be a Death Guard unit so high OC allies like War Dogs (who have OC 8) and Rotigus (who coincidentally has a OC debuff) can muscle a point away from the enemy and gain the benefit of -1T & -1SV (or whatever other aura you picked) in the process. Most importantly, this makes it much easier for us to trigger the enchanced versions of our -AP and +Sustained Hits strats much more reliably. So if we battleshock a unit sitting on an objective or muscle it away with a squad of cultists, our Deathshrouds can deep strike in and hit that squad with potentially -3AP anti-infantry 4+ flamers. Or our Plague Marines can charge with Lethal 5+, Sustained 2 power fists. Death Guard has a lot more play with this seemingly minor change.
So its still situational at best and Negligible at worst, becuase after turn 3 its either them holding it or you most of the time.. not to mention the infection doesnt do damage and will get turned off once they take the objective.. and when they take the objective from you 90% of the time any units that would've been there is already dead so they cant fight to hold the objective
Holy Shit. I looked at Lord Disco's sheet and I was like "Okay....not bad...maybe like...100 points max? HOLY SHIT it was 190 before? ONE NINETY? Calgar is 185 and has like way more value
@gabrielmccray3457 If you want a fun way to run your Infernus, put five of them in an Impulsor, which you give the missile launcher and frag launcher. Makes for a hilarious and cheap fragmobile. Great time against Orks or swarm Nids!
As a new player who started with World Eaters, Brad is entirely correct all I care about is Unga Bunga Melee, I just want to get in fast and clobber you than move on to the next meatbag.
The problem with points updates is that there's no way to shave 5points off your list and keep it relatively the same. If any of your units get updated you have to make a whole new list.
Unless you're Knights, in which case you probably had 10-15 points spare even WITH enhancements, simply as a consequence of all your models being huge.
Bricky throwing shade will never get old... but once his sisters get nerfed to hell he's going to be singing a very different, slightly indignant tune I imagine.
RE: Space Marines, i think the root of the problem with codex compliant chapters is Oaths of moment being the universal Space Marine army rule means that when it got nerfed, the special snowflakes could compensate by leaning into their unique units, where codex compliant chapters(Aside from Ultramarines) got left behind because the rule intended to compensate for their issues with killing shit got hamstrung. I 100% think that the divergent chapters should have their own army rule, and should probably be limited to their codex detachments unless using only generic marine units. Though ideally i would want each codex to have a couple detachments that are variations on Codex: SM detachments, such as a blood angels armored company detachment that's focused on buffing your tanks movement instead of mostly just their shooting or a SW thunderwolf cavalry detachment that isn't as broken as stormlance.
Detachment specific points modifiers and this is fixed. Would help every army, especially Space Marines splashing divergent chapters into core detachments
I play codex marines, and GW please! Just lock divergent datasheets to Detachments. I don't want to watch divergent just take their datasheets make the Detachment too strong and then nerf it. Either give Codex marines more benefits for taking the Detachment like for example if you don't take Dark angels, black templars, space wolves, and blood angels you get pre nerf ironstorm with the aura Enhancements and 1 cp for mercy is weakness or just look datasheets to codexes.
this is what i’ve been saying! make it something like “if the army contains the firestorm assault force detachment and either no chapter keyword or the salamanders, infernus marines get battleline” or something like that
I say lock the divergent chapters to gladius + their unique ones, since Gladius is supposed to be the generic one that symbolizes Space Marine flexibility. Give them all a baseline one at least (dark angles for example all use gladius because their other three are bad. Please buff them GW, I want a dark angels army full of terminators and first company veterans)
The problem with “make the divergent chapters use their detachments” is a lot of them aren’t good. Particularly DAs. If you force Dark Angels to use their detachments, then they become the worst army in the game. That isn’t even an exaggeration. So, I would support that idea, if it meant their detachments got an overhaul. But that isn’t some minor fix. Even ignoring the rework of multiple detachments. You’d then have to find out what SM units can be buffed to bring generic SMs back in line. But the other chapters can still use those units. I’ve seen people suggest different point values depending on the chapter. But that is a whole dumpster of worms. Basically, this is a giant endeavor. Locking divergent chapters to their detachments just makes those chapters worse. While doing nothing for SM. Other than giving them potential to be buffed without also not bugging 4 other armies. But really those 4 other armies are still getting buffed because they can use those units.
I think Space Marine players justifiably should frustrated. Space marine’s problem are design problems from GW. I don’t think any divergent chapter player asked to be roped into the space marine codex faction. As a space wolf player I wish we had a separate codex because Champions of Russ would have been buff sooner then a year after release. What don’t understand is why Space Marine act as one giant faction. While in chaos CSM, World Eaters, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons are all separate.
I have two theories. The first theory is that the people creating the factions and rules are not communicating to each other. Like at all. The second is they wanted to make factions for each specific chaos god because it was a thing they committed to in seventh and are almost done.
They also stopped the extreme overpowered soup that is "Genestealer Cults, featuring zero genestealer cultists" (Brood Brothers, make the warlord one of the Imperial Guard, only take the Guard up to the limit, then because your army only consists of IG models you can add Agents of the Imperium, Knights, Titans etc). Something which was mostly lore-friendly and also had you actually fighting at a detriment (it's the same as playing it as an Imperial Guard faction except with more limitations and without a faction rule or detachment rule). That's something we can pretend to care about greatly, and chuckle a bit.
30:00 to be fair, if you're asking for models' balancing/point costs to reflect their lore strength and value at all you're asking for every single space marine model to basically have a classic dreadnought's defensive profile and an 18-inch move, and for that to be pointed appropriately
That would mean a 2000 points SM army would be a squad of marines, a character, and a vehicle. While 2000 points of tyranids would be 400 gants, 50 ripper swarms, 2 carnifexes, and 16 Tyranid Warriors (The HQ isn't present on the battlefield, as long as the synapse creatures still stand).
Armor saves maybe, but Marines being at 4 toughness is never changing. Orks have 5, and orks can survive having their stupid heads cut off for hours. Show me a marine that can survive a beheading and I'll grant you that increased toughness.
Deathwing Knights going up mostly means more Inner Circle Companions are going to be used more. Folks are still going to have Azrael lead one maxed out group while a Judiciar leads another in an Impulsor or Repulsor. Maybe even three maxed out groups. They can absolutely rip and tear their way through a variety of datasheets.
The worst thing about erad Biologis fire discipline is that they could have put all the point nerfs on Fire Discipline and nothing would change for the other detachments.
29:30 As a Dark Angels player I get the frustration with non marine players. I would be annoyed too if another faction that had access to loads of detachments were moaning about their stuff. But I think GW should split each of the divergent chapters into their own books and have the SM units in them separately and pointed separate accordingly like they have done with chaos legions.
Nice list! How do you use the bladeguard ancient in this list? I don’t have one but I’ve been considering painting one for fun and would like to use them too.
@frostypineapple He uses the Enhancement - Portents of Wisdom, so he can re-roll Advance. Then, when they enter Battle, I use his abilities to add 1 added attack to 6 Blade Guards & Kor'sarro Khan. The Khan also makes so all the Guns have assault.
Just finished listening to the podcast, these by far are always my favorite episodes. Hope Bricky continues to be a reoccurring guest cause the dynamic is perfect
39:40 I actually prefer to do the opposite with the termies: give them mark of tzeentch abd all bolters with a sorcerer, they tend to just fill the enemy with so many ap 1 shots that they either have to spend a cp for armour of contempt (if they have it) or just run the risk of making 40+ saves
Hot Take: Each Space Marine divergent chapter only gets access to 6 total Detachments, the 2-3 in your Codex and make up the difference with specific detachments from the General Space Marine Codex. For Example: Blood Angels get their 3 codex detachments plus Gladius, First Company Task Force, and maybe Firestorm (???). This gives them a broad range of options but doesn't overwhelm with choices.
As a player who owns(ed) 2000 points of Kroot -- I can say that they are a sleeper army, they have a lot of wombo combo that you can put into play -- but when you start targeting their unique pieces they fall apart unless played well. A lot of players talk about how kroot doesn't have answers to armor, but they do via all of the wombo resulting in saying screw the odds we just go brrrrr -- they are T'au orks in essence.
I am also playing kroot. Although it’s far or a mixture between tau and kroot. And from what I can tell the kroot did not like the system mechanics change at all.
I think GeeDub kinda like Bungle, leave stuff out so that it generates content and buzz with them effectively doing less. Bungle (what I call Bungie studios) would leave lots of stats on their guns in Destiny 1 &2 not visible so you had an entire ecosystem of guys who would farm up multiple versions of the weapon and do tests to see which perks were worthwhile and which were shite.
I need a host exchange episode where bricky tries to lead an episode in the poorhammer style with eric as cohost and brad tries to lead an episode of adric with dk as cohost
I think Brad makes a good point about space marines. As the subscription service faction, we are very used to just buying whatever combo box looks good, buying used models on a discount, or buying something that just looks cool. There is so much variety and the detachment rules are vague enough that you kind of assume you can run a little bit of everything We build up these massive 4k point collections only to realize that we dont have a single 2k list that actually synergizes well into even a casually viable list, let alone competitive. While we have some good stuff, there is so much available that the odds we have enough for a good list is unlikely. Space marine players are used to being able to slap any model on the table, pick the detachment that works best for what theyve got, and assume it will be at least okay which has not been the case with 10th. You might have some aggressors, but if you dont have 6 with a gravis captain or calgar, you may as well have 0. I see this clearly with orks. If you wanna play bully boys, you need 18 meganobz, 2 trukks, and Ghaz. It would be silly to play bully boyz where 60% of your list is boyz, killa kanz, and squigz. Its like obviously your list is going to suck and no one is going to have sympathy for you. But its very clear from 1st reading of the codex that you need to pick a direction, and each subfaction tells you exactly what units you need to make a good list. This is not the case with space marines, which from reading the codex, you would assume they are a generalist faction. The problem again comes back to space marines and all the snowflake subfactions having too much variety which can let the serious players with high knowledge and lots of foresight to pick out only the best subfactions, characters, and units, while the casual guy buying whatever used models or combo boxes he can scrape together is left with over-costed bad units because some space wolves or blood angels players broke the game. Space marines are kind of advertised as a versatile generalist army, and I think they should play that way. I hate to say it, but I think at least in 10th edition, the best way to fix that is actually to remove a lot of the rules from the detachments and let space marines stand alone as simply good datasheets. Your unit shouldnt suck just because its actually good only if you play in X detachment with Y leader. I know thats how most other factions work, but space marines are the entry point with way too much variety, which doesnt mesh well as the faction with highly specialized viable army compositions. Let newbies build their first space marine army out of whatever odds and ends they find and do okay, then when they actually understand the game and want to engage in some more niche strategizing, buy into a different army. To summarize, i think a poorly optimized and poorly played space marine army should be able to beat a poorly optimized/played army of any other faction, but a well optimized/played space marine army should mostly lose against a good player with a well built list. This would make space marines much less competitively viable and I am totally fine with that. Edit: im only talking about generic space marines here, DA, BA, SW, and whatever others should be highly specialized and shouldnt be allowed to take anything they want from regular SM. I think thats what those players want anyway. I just think generic marines should be kind of a skill check for other players and should get boring after a while which would encourage them to start a 2nd army. Space marines, the true "little brother" army that can put up a decent fight even if they are wielded by a child with whatever units you have lying around.
So as someone playing chaos knights in a crusade (the need for take all comers lists may push a bit of a skewed view point here) but in my experience, my abominant has actually come in clutch a ton of times. And the fact that when a unit takes battle shock tests when below starting strength while within a foot of a chaos knight model seems to make battle shock WAY more impactful. I think just suicide rushing 3 abominants might actually be a wildly effective slant list to force early shocks and force them all game.
The amount of games played comment was such a mood. I remember one year in particular when I only got 1 game. I would have loved to get a guaranteed game every month.
Okay, random idea my playing group talked about, but when it comes to knobs to turn, what if your army gave you 3 strategems and 2 enhancements that would be accessible in all detachments? You could then make a foundation upon which to build and it could add variety.
You know something I find very interesting is why hasn't games workshop decided that if you're running a specific character detachment that it gets pointed differently like say you're running the blood Angels specific characters okay now you have your generic units pointed to reflect that so it way you can leave the detachments mostly alone yet still Nerf the armies that are using certain attach ments in incredibly dumb ways that makes them very annoying and it also lets them balance the generics without having to worry about that big chapter breaking them
It seems y'all missed it, but for Tyranids, Neurogaunts got hit pretty hard by the FAQ. They no longer expand Synapse if they are getting it from other Neurogaunts or a Neurotyrant's ability. It doesn't necessarily sound like a ton but you used to be able to (or at least argue for) giving them Neurotyrant Synapse as long as they were within 12", then make their own move and advance giving you a lot of range on Synapse for a round while keeping the Neurotyrant safe, such as rushing them forward to give your melee Synapse on a charge for the extra strength. Now without that they don't do a whole lot because they just can't extend it that far. As much as I complain about Warriors being glass you can get a unit of 3 Ranged Warriors that provide some killing power and have more bulk for 65 while generating Synapse on their own while Neurogaunts are 45. I'm not sure why you'd ever take them unless you have 45 to 55 points left over, don't want any more enhancements, and don't want rippers. Maybe to stick on backline objective if the opponent doesn't have any deep strike?
If you're using a model from outside the Codex: Space Marines, then you should follow the rules specific to that model's faction. The Red, Green, Black, and Blue wretches can still be played as Codex: Space Marines, as long as you only include units from the Codex: Space Marines. It doesn't make sense to nerf an army just because a different army is using its own models with your rules.
Idk why it’s so hard to say, the Divergent Chapters should get handled the way the special snowflake CSM are handled. Give them the generic vehicles, a handful of units required to fill out their lists like veterans and Intercessors of all flavors and then separate them from generic Ultramarines. They shouldn’t be Space Marines +
Bricky's "...man I hate t'au" out of nowhere and the immediate laughter absolutely killed me - I'm sorry, you guys just have to work harder not to get shot off the board next time
For the love of the Emperor, give the White Scars their own codex supplement for 10th. Stormlance Detachment doesn't do enough for the White Scars and makes it too focused on vehicles, which isn't everything with the white scars. The White Scars have other units they can use in their lore and that should be fleshed out like with other chapters.
Bricky's comments on World Eaters reminds me of how Khorne played in AoS 3rd edition. The army itself was a bit more strategic than just full sending it down mid lane - rather, your units were a little fragile, and a little slow, and the strategy came from using your tools to get into melee in the first place. You had a faction mechanic that gave you points when units died (mostly), so you had to learn when to use them to speed up some guys into a favourable fight, when to use them to summon some surprise bloodletters, when to auto-deny a key spell, and so on. When played well, you could compensate for the faction weaknesses and shitstomp in melee, but if you didn't you'd get shot and spelled to bits. I have no clue how they play in 4th edition (beyond in melee), but if 40k GW wanted to copy AoS GW's homework again then giving WE that extra strategic layer would be a good way to do it.
Tau should be the Soulblight gravelords of 40k, the mishmash of everything. I get making detachments, but i want to field a bunch of kroot and vespids *alongside* my tau, not instead of my tau.
For GSC I support more controlled randomness of cult ambush. It should be influenceable by the GSC player and the opponent. Maybe something like: you have a roll of 5+ or 6+ to start out with, every one you fail adds one to the next test, every success resets to the original. Maybe an attached character guarantees the respawn or adds +1 That way both players have control. The GSC player at 5+ can just sacrifice a cheap unit because he expects a more expensive one to die next turn, and an opponent can kill GSC units with respect to the state of the roll. But some units should be barred from returning, like Aberrants and Jackals but be either dropped in cost or increased in lethality. Broodbrothers should be integrated into all detachments. Specialist detachments could allow their units, normally barred from returning, allow it as part of their detachment rule, that way they’d feel more impactful in their detachment or if that’s too strong, under the usage of stratagems (maybe once per unit or even once per game)
Im new to the hobby and started work on a 2000 point CSM army supplemented with a Knight Abominant. As a Vashtorr and Knight Abominant enjoyer, Im very happy with recent changes, not only that but with the changes on terminators, legionaries, etc I was able to include my rhino, so basically i can run all the models I want to run for exactly 2000 points and i dont have to drop 5 legionaries to fit the rhino in. The dark gods have been especially generous!!!! Now back to painting the rhino
You SAY no one would be happy running an Outrider ATV, but I have been brewing up a White Scares successor army called 'The Surf Sharks' who carry surf boards and grills on their vehicles and have sand and splashing water bases and the dune buggy would be PERFECT for them! Add a couple boards to the sides, rework one of the drivers hands so he's doing the 'surfs up' sign and have the gunner helmet less and wearing sunglasses... that's the center piece of the army baby!
I do crusade, playing fists so I'm obligated for anvil. Honestly I'm winning most games, but the weird part is the very limited number of heavy weapons. Devestators, intercessors, heavy intercessors, desolators, eliminators, scouts, infiltrators, hellblasters, lancer, executioner... And one in a tactical. Like... It's not a lot and a lot is S4, AP 0 or 1. Give divergents something cool. Gimme a thunderfire cannon or a rapier carrier!
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](/img/1.gif)
I have been informed by a commenter that after 80K people watched this video I never posted a pinned comment with the links to the merch and Patreon. We really suck at this stuff.
BUY OUR SWEET DICE - orchideight.com/collections/poorhammer
If you want to support us more directly we have a Patreon too - www.patreon.com/c/SolelySingleton
In a weird coincidence. Tuesdays are the start of my work week so I always start my workday listening to Poorhammer. Oddly enough I start my work on Sunday this week and they also upload. It’s like they knew.
My work week just shifted from starting on Tuesday to starting on Sunday
They do know. Turn around, look up about 40°s and wave hi. Cause we can all see you.
I’m sorry you have such a horrible way to start your week. (This is a joke. You can laugh now)
Monday Morning here in Australia so its perfect timing for Monday morning working from home with coffee.
Jokes on you with that "it doesnt matter for 99% of the casual players" - i'm in the 1% of people who dont even play Warhammer and are just here for the funny goofs
I'm in the percentage that can't play because the edition keeps changing before I can.
I'm in the % of people who has models but not a full army and who lives in the middle of no where with nobody to play with.
So that’s how u beat the system… smart
I'm in the % of people who played a bit with their brother ages back, kinda tries to keep up, and is really disappointed that blast templates don't exist anymore.
(It feels so weird that if artillery fires and misses, it just doesn't do anything. Compared to the old version, where you'd throw a die to get a direction and distance, move the marker in accordance, and whatever's there gets blasted instead. Sure, it limited the blast range to existing markers, you'd have people arguing endlessly about the precise movement, and the marker circle will break off spears and servoskulls, but it just feels right, y'know?)
@@macroglossumstellatarum5932 Make blast templates great again. :P
As much as I don't enjoy playing the game "League of Legends" I will concede that they set the gold standard for patch notes, esspecially with how frequently they update their game.
Every single facet of the game that gets changed gets explained in the format of:
- Goal for changes
- Summary of changes
- Detailed changes
- Notes for how/why detailed changes were made, as well as any fringe interactions.
- How they're gonna be measuring success for the goals
True and based
They give explanations. It’s just that 90% of it is either lies or just wrong reading of data and they assume the the playerbase they give this info to are ignorant to that.
@@vinnythewebsurfer Tbf a large amount of humans just straight up do not understand things on the level they think they do in general. League's player base especially is one of the most delusional I've ever experienced.
I still find it crazy that League still runs on a *HEAVILY* modified Riot Engine.
Note: Riot Games is named _after_ the engine, not the other way around. They also got their logo from it as well. The original developers of the engine? Surreal Software.
@@petercampi2840ohh just like bugthesda software
hey make a vid on the HEAVIEST warhammer lists based on plastic weight
We find your factions CHONKIEST model
It’d have to be Tyranids or Orks, right?
_Maybe_ a Titans list with some chaff units allied in?
Stompa, Stompa, Gorkanaut, and 30 Grots
Resin knights. Custodes are also a top contender.
All praise the wonderful and handsome Berilio
Berilio get off your alt
Tuesday already? Oh boy!
huh? 😱
OH BOY 3am!
Love cohost Bricky, the guest host Eric could definitely try harder to sell me things though
YOUR WARNING IS FALSE, I AM A CASUAL PLAYER AND NOW I CAN BRING ASSAULT TERMINATORS TO BOARDING ACTION WITHOUT ACCEPTING I HAVE TO BE VERY SHORT OF 500 POINTS AND MY HEART SWELLS WITH JOY
Boarding action singlehandedly pushing me to get into 40k. I love Killteam, but I can't use the models that give me dopamine. A 500 point game with big ol bots however...
Not to kill your joy, but you can't use most of the big models in boarding actions. It is very focused on infantry. Get the book, or at least browse the detachments.
I feel the same way; all my favorite models are tanks and monsters.
@@WilliamMoses355 (points over at 'Horde Mode' developed by this very podcast for this exact purpose)
A Poorhammer podcast? At this day of the week? At this time of the day? In this video platform? Localized entirely within your channel?
May I see it?
@@JackMcKinney-uu6dxyes
Guess we're doing Poorhammer now
@@JackMcKinney-uu6dx …no
There’s a partial fix for GSC’s Cult Ambush from the new Sigmar edition: if a unit dies, it comes back with half the models (rounded down). Simply add a little extra line stating, “If an Infantry unit drops below 5 models, it is destroyed.”
Did you cheap out with a 5 Acolyte Hybrids? They don’t get to come back.
Did you spend the big points for a full 10 Aberrants? They come back at half strength.
Did you bring a 20 model unit of Neophytes? They can come back multiple times; However, unlike the start of the edition, they’re going to be weaker each time.
If a certain unit is too strong with a guaranteed Cult Ambush while the 5-man unit is perfectly balanced, GW can increase the cost of the 10-man while keeping the 5-man the same. It’s another balance lever to add an extra points cost to Cult Ambush when necessary.
Bonus: GW can add a “Vehicle/Mounted units can be reduced to one model (rounded down) compared the Infantry’s five models” to get Atalan Jackals and Achilles Ridgerunners in on the action. Max Jackals becomes 6 models, then 3, then 1. Max Ridgerunners becomes 3 models, then 1. Goliath vehicles would remain unaffected because half of a single model rounded down is zero.
Edit: Fixed some grammar. I also added the vehicle/mounted rule I was considering since I forgot to mention it.
The idea is an easy update to an existing rule-which has already been tested in a parallel system-to make it easy to remember, easy to explain to your opponent mid-battle, not reliant on random chance, and keeping it thematic. Personally, having played both sides of the “nothing comes back” and “everything comes back” scenarios as a consequence of random chance, neither scenario is fun.
I really like this
Penalizing MSU is kinda silly, especially since most GSC lists take a healthy mix of minimum maximum sized squads anyways. The ojly reason outlander claw specifically doesn't is bc they use vehicles instead
In the index, getting full sized squads back was not an issue bc characters (namely in this case Primuses) don't come back, so the damage output was nowhere near the same. Once the points were adjusted and the autobattline revive was taken away, we stayed in the winrate target window all the way to the codex.
I'd prefer if cult ambush was somewhat reliable (3+, regardless of unit) and we had to go back to using blips but its a 6 inch radius to delete/come in from instesd of 9. Our internal balance is pretty good rn and we have tons of options for listbuilding, sp anything for cult ambush that changes what you want to bring is the wrong move imo
Nah that doesn't really sit right with me.
Already our army rule only applies to what 7 of our units and the solution is to limit it further?
Even if coming back was guaranteed and the units were priced higher I'd rather have the units be cheaper and take more of them to have at the start rather than have the tax and maybe it'll come up in time to be worth the extra points.
From the people I have talked to units coming back is just an unpopular/unfun mechanic to face and GW seems to also be moving in that direction with squashing of reinforcement like stratagems.
I hope they just remove it and give us something that represents planning and preparation, with options that could be made before each battle.
ie Select 1 or 2 from the following:
We flood the battle field making the enemy infantry and vehicles slog through a mire, slowing their movement
We have set up and mapped reinforced cover positions allowing to double cover bonus
We have tainted the water and air weakening our foes, lowering strength or weapon or ballistic skill
Pre-targeted Artillery allowing some sort of indirect fire mitigation
False Intel: Can move primus' redeploy ability here and get rid of something that is redundant for multiple primus
It would have to be balanced/tested and have more thought put through it but just something that makes me think "We are not a regular army, we are not going to fight fair" instead of "We have more bodies than you have bullets."
instant like for that 'miserable pile of debuffs' joke
When are we gonna get a M.I.L.F.F.S hat. Man I love fishing for sixes.
ITS POORHAMMER SUNDAY!
27:00 I think the problem with Space Marines' Codex is that it was written with a lot more potential overlap for effective datasheets compared to other Codexes. You could take just about any 2k list of SM and slot in a few potential detachments to modify the playstyle of that list, but the detachment in every other Codex DEFINES the play style and list building. SM players are playing the game backwards from everyone else, and no one seems to agree on how to fix it.
Ehm… why did they say nothing to Black Templars at all? Did I miss something? Did not only GW hates us, Poorhammer too?
@@timiturret148 you are correct. Both Brad and Bricky are chaos enjoyers who don't especially like loyalist Marines. Brad especially doesn't care for "snowflake chapters" with special detachments and rules.
Tldr; yes
I think it's just a redundant argument at this point. Everyone knows the divergent chapters are objectively better because they're more spoiled for choice, so it's like "Yeah, these guys who were just good got nerfed because they're good. Duh."
And I respect that. I just wish the community was more solution-oriented instead of parroting the problem. To act as an example I guess: divergent chapters needs to be locked out of compliant detachments. To me, that's an easy fix, paired with some much needed buffs for the weaker divergent detachments.
@@soffren It fells not good to be honest, if they talk about everything, especially every other divergent chapter and then leave one out.
It is their podcast, and they can whatever they want, but that feels just bad.
@@timiturret148 I'm with you. I play Salamanders, and our detachment got hit pretty bad, but not nearly as bad as yours. At least your kits are nice 🙂
... wait, tank commanders didn't have squadron before?
Errors have been made
Yes, since the start of 10th - and IG bitched about this
Nor does the baneblade which means no detachment rule and to give it orders you NEED Lord solar
28:00 MY SPACE MARINES STOLE THOSE BAAL PREDATORS FAIR AND SQUARE
That’s the only reason I play blood angels, I want flame predators
did somebody say blood ravens?
Deimos predator ny friend.
It's legends, but it rocks!
As an apparently rare literate World Eater, modern WEs lore-wise are yolo charge. Evaporating melee targets is also part of it, but the nails mean there is no real strategy and they get themselves killed all of the time. The gladiator stuff is mostly pre-nails, amongst each other, or exceptions like Gladiator Cadre 331.
RUclips seems to not be sending my reply, so I'll just add this edit.
"[The Butcher's Nails] pound relentlessly, demanding blood and slaughter, and the World Eaters are only too willing to acquiesce... Khorne Berzerkers charge headlong into the foe... Obsessed with butchery, the World Eaters hack apart any who stand before them... These beasts of war are a fast-moving force that surge to get up-close and personal with the foe" - 9th edition WE codex
^This. If we were talking about Horus Heresy World Eaters, Bricky would have a point. If we're talking modern 40K, after 10,000 years of going Full Khorne, No. No, they're not gladiators. They're a mob of crazed berserkers who know little of tactics and even less of their history. The World Eaters "Legion" in the Era Indomitus is what happens when you lower your standards for Inductii to the fucking floor, and just keep doing that for millennia.
That's what makes the World Eaters tragic. They lost everything they had, and now only have Rage.
This is literally the opposite of what the codex said and what our newest book shows
@@vahlok2568 "Khorne Berzerkers charge headlong into the foe, bellowing war cries and oaths to the Blood God and his Skull Throne... Obsessed with butchery, the World Eaters hack apart any who stand before them, rendering all up as offerings to Khorne. These beasts of war are a fast-moving force that surge to get up-close and personal with the foe" - 9th edition codex
Some, like Gladiator Cadre 331, do maintain old traditions and don't fully succumb to nails. This is an exception though, not the rule.
One set of toilet flushable dice please. Guess I'll take the poorhammer ones too, are they based on the sturmtiger?
One thing I remembered when you mentioned the forgefiend got nerfed because of a tournament skew list is that you guys didn't cover Black Templars. It's ok I forgive you but, our crusader squads got murdered because of the black tide list with 120 crusaders winning a tournament so now I have something other than not getting a model release in the last 5 minutes to cry about.
Once again, we run into the problem of competitive players being allowed to run way too much of a thing. A thought I did laugh when I read this.
GW saw a Space Marine list win a tournament without even one Gladiator Lancer in sight and they needed to crack down on that immediately, because if you run power armor you need at least 3 fucking tanks on the field if you want to compete apparently.
Blessed be Berillio, may you acquire GW plastic at non exhortation prices and your 42 dogs never receive the grandfather's gifts
SM's problem is the detachments and sometimes the lack of unit options for those detachments, yeah. The non-ultramarines first-founding chapters need more characters, and you need an incentive to play pure vanilla (no first founding chapters) or at least codex compliant SM.
IDK about locking divergent chapter units to their detachments, but I could see it maybe work.
Love the little Zs coming out of Bricky when Chaos Demons came up! It's the visual details that accent the dynamic of the hosts that really push Poorhammer up to being my favorite podcast, keep up the great work y'all!
Brad - "I'm your host brad and here is my co-host bricky"
(cool cool everything is normal so far.)
Bricky with the deepest sexiest voice - "hows it going"
(wtf that's not Eric! oh right balance changes that means bricky is here.)
"All elves are sex elves if you have taste."
-Roboute Guilliman
When bricky said PH the first thing that came to mind was not poorhammer
Fair - although I teach a lot of chemistry these days so I might be an outlier.
Ikr phosphorous is always on my mind these days
Sure wasn’t. I was def thinking of something else.
Just like the Time Bandits episode, my favorite episodes are the ones where Brad laughs the hardest. Eric too, but in Brad's laugh I can hear the tears as he doubles over. As someone who has never played the tabletop and understands very little about it, I enjoy the podcast most for your guy's dry sense of humor and the fact that I don't hear the tone of voice that conveys forced hype. I include Borelio in this too with the way he edits the episodes. Berelio? Birelio? Byrelio?
Berilio, and thank you for the kind words. It means a lot.
When death guard gets their new combat patrol, please reward Berilio with it. YOU SIR ARE THE REAL HERO!
Dark angels are ran in gladius because our whole codex, even with the buffs, just doesn't work at all. inner circle task force looks good at first seeing the repulsors and dreadnoughts get the deathwing keyword until you realize the only rule they actually benefit from is a 4+ fight on death stratagem...
I like how Bricky's forehead is edited to be slightly larger in the thumbnail
Alll hail our lord and savior berillio
I so desperately want a rules rewrite of the Praetors. They're one of the coolest plastic models available for us, yet they have the worst rules synergy I've ever seen. It's especially egregious in Custodes' case, where our whole shtick is powerful datasheet abilities that give each unit a specialized role, and then the Praetors just... firebomb someone for at most 6 mortals, or charging a bastard and then dealing twice that much fairly reliably.
Also Eric can continue coping, seething, and malding over the superiority of the Telemon. He can cry about it to Shalaxi, but that won't change the fact that we have the best dreadnought model in the game.
This will be weird to read in 2 years
@@1inimilian567 I sure hope so
Brad acts like space marine players are so beneath him like he isn't literally playing a space marine faction. Just because you're chaos doesn't mean you aren't also literally playing big guys in power armor
No, but his special snowflake chapter is fine because its blue and chaos.
Part of the reason they can’t lock space marine divergent chapters to their own detachments is because they refuse to actually make a full codex. They only get like 3 detachments, and use the normal space marine army rule. They could easily just make them their own army rule and just have generic marines be includable, and then give them a normal number of detachments and it would be ok. But as is if for instance dark angels were locked to their own detachments they only have 3, and because gw can’t design or balance 40k stuff for shit, one of those detachments only really does stuff if you’re battleshocked which you never are, one detachment is actually good but literally only has 2 units that are generalist units that can make use of the abilities, and they both kinda suck, and one is actually good but it’s still pretty limited in who it can benefit. You just can’t really actually play a decent dark angels list in its detachments because they’re all kinda trash.
I don’t know why I thought bricky said “wh*rehammer” dice, but now I want a short episode where the crew just review the new slaanesh range with sex workers on as guests who know nothing about warhammer
What would be even funnier is if they did, though
Guard perspective on the entire hot takes segment of the video.
Damn, having detachments sounds cool.
Shovel brothers for life. Right Bricky?
Ah. Genius, his favorite joke! No better way to get on his good side!😂
@chaosheaven23 all I am saying is, if they had shovel dice, those would sell out in a day.
As codex-SM player I find it hilarious that people with round 50% winrate armies are complaining - some of us have actual problems… 😂
as Space Wolfs player, from the first day I always said that Stormlance was not supposed to bu used with TWC. They gave the list of generic SM to a group of dudes and asked them to come up with rules, and the only mounted units they saw was bikes. (at the time there were 3 units) This is so clear and transparent, you just get it by reading to the strats. example, full throttle: they gave something to boost advance, but the bikes already had that, so they added 9" if you are mounted. nobody intended to have a massive wolf run like mad max.
I have long said Khorne doesn't specifically wish he had been able to corrupt the Blood Angels rather than the World Eaters, but he sure wishes he could convert a few of the Blood Angels tournament players to pilot his armies.
So on top of the Silent King not having triarchy for a year, THE COMMAND BARGE, WITH AN OVERLORD ON TOP, DOES NOT HAVE THE NOBLE KEYWORD FOR THE PHALANX EITHER
Death Guard got a huge buff in the form of the infection clarification - once we infect a point, its always infected and we can regain the infection by simply making sure the opponent doesn't control the objective point - so battleshock from Plagueburst Crawlers can work. We can also reactivate Nurgle's Gift over the infected point by gaining control of an infected point - most notably it doesn't have to be a Death Guard unit so high OC allies like War Dogs (who have OC 8) and Rotigus (who coincidentally has a OC debuff) can muscle a point away from the enemy and gain the benefit of -1T & -1SV (or whatever other aura you picked) in the process.
Most importantly, this makes it much easier for us to trigger the enchanced versions of our -AP and +Sustained Hits strats much more reliably. So if we battleshock a unit sitting on an objective or muscle it away with a squad of cultists, our Deathshrouds can deep strike in and hit that squad with potentially -3AP anti-infantry 4+ flamers. Or our Plague Marines can charge with Lethal 5+, Sustained 2 power fists. Death Guard has a lot more play with this seemingly minor change.
So its still situational at best and Negligible at worst, becuase after turn 3 its either them holding it or you most of the time.. not to mention the infection doesnt do damage and will get turned off once they take the objective.. and when they take the objective from you 90% of the time any units that would've been there is already dead so they cant fight to hold the objective
Holy Shit. I looked at Lord Disco's sheet and I was like "Okay....not bad...maybe like...100 points max? HOLY SHIT it was 190 before? ONE NINETY? Calgar is 185 and has like way more value
Even then, Calgar is on a 50mm base. Lord disco is on a massive 120mm x 92mm oval.
Yeah…I was high-balling it at 130 since they warned us it’d be trash but bruh…that’s just insulting.
is brad okay, he turned into golem for a second
Im just starting salamanders. Im glad im so new i dont know what to be mad about. and i'll stay that way.
Flamers are fun, you’ll be happy
@@Jadfisk I got 10 infernus. The idea of 10d6 hits just sounds like a good time to me.
Get 6 flamer aggressors, 6 eradicators with an apothecary Biologis and a land raider redeemer. You'll drown your foes in Prometheum
@gabrielmccray3457 If you want a fun way to run your Infernus, put five of them in an Impulsor, which you give the missile launcher and frag launcher. Makes for a hilarious and cheap fragmobile. Great time against Orks or swarm Nids!
Already bought 50 of my PH dice. Been looking for more dice for the pile of addiction rocks.
I really hope a Grey Knight detachment is just army-wide Poor Hammers.
As a new player who started with World Eaters, Brad is entirely correct all I care about is Unga Bunga Melee, I just want to get in fast and clobber you than move on to the next meatbag.
The problem with points updates is that there's no way to shave 5points off your list and keep it relatively the same. If any of your units get updated you have to make a whole new list.
Unless you're Knights, in which case you probably had 10-15 points spare even WITH enhancements, simply as a consequence of all your models being huge.
@@Bluecho4 ideally you would have wargear options that would help you dial that in...
Bricky throwing shade will never get old... but once his sisters get nerfed to hell he's going to be singing a very different, slightly indignant tune I imagine.
Sometimes as an elderly millenial there are moments when i wish i'd lived in a world where this podcast was a thing when i was a teenager
Want to know something wild? I don’t actually play 40K or know anything about it.. I just like listening to these guys. Keep it up!
A good example of the point change is not affecting casual play they mentioned, is my casual SoB only went up 45 pts
My 1000 point list went up 55 points and I wasn’t even doing great before tbh
RE: Space Marines, i think the root of the problem with codex compliant chapters is Oaths of moment being the universal Space Marine army rule means that when it got nerfed, the special snowflakes could compensate by leaning into their unique units, where codex compliant chapters(Aside from Ultramarines) got left behind because the rule intended to compensate for their issues with killing shit got hamstrung.
I 100% think that the divergent chapters should have their own army rule, and should probably be limited to their codex detachments unless using only generic marine units.
Though ideally i would want each codex to have a couple detachments that are variations on Codex: SM detachments, such as a blood angels armored company detachment that's focused on buffing your tanks movement instead of mostly just their shooting or a SW thunderwolf cavalry detachment that isn't as broken as stormlance.
Detachment specific points modifiers and this is fixed. Would help every army, especially Space Marines splashing divergent chapters into core detachments
LETS GOOOOO thank you Bricky for doing these updates with them. Thank you Berillo for your hard work editing!
I play codex marines, and GW please! Just lock divergent datasheets to Detachments. I don't want to watch divergent just take their datasheets make the Detachment too strong and then nerf it. Either give Codex marines more benefits for taking the Detachment like for example if you don't take Dark angels, black templars, space wolves, and blood angels you get pre nerf ironstorm with the aura Enhancements and 1 cp for mercy is weakness or just look datasheets to codexes.
this is what i’ve been saying! make it something like “if the army contains the firestorm assault force detachment and either no chapter keyword or the salamanders, infernus marines get battleline” or something like that
I say lock the divergent chapters to gladius + their unique ones, since Gladius is supposed to be the generic one that symbolizes Space Marine flexibility. Give them all a baseline one at least (dark angles for example all use gladius because their other three are bad. Please buff them GW, I want a dark angels army full of terminators and first company veterans)
The problem with “make the divergent chapters use their detachments” is a lot of them aren’t good. Particularly DAs. If you force Dark Angels to use their detachments, then they become the worst army in the game. That isn’t even an exaggeration.
So, I would support that idea, if it meant their detachments got an overhaul. But that isn’t some minor fix. Even ignoring the rework of multiple detachments. You’d then have to find out what SM units can be buffed to bring generic SMs back in line. But the other chapters can still use those units. I’ve seen people suggest different point values depending on the chapter. But that is a whole dumpster of worms.
Basically, this is a giant endeavor. Locking divergent chapters to their detachments just makes those chapters worse. While doing nothing for SM. Other than giving them potential to be buffed without also not bugging 4 other armies. But really those 4 other armies are still getting buffed because they can use those units.
I’m just sitting here with my Four attachments wondering how the hell this is even became a problem.
@@rickkcir2151divergents are ruining the faction. Kick em to their own detatchments already, god-legion style. That is the only real fix.
Before I even watch the episode I’m gonna make sure to thank Berilio for his hard work
I think Space Marine players justifiably should frustrated. Space marine’s problem are design problems from GW. I don’t think any divergent chapter player asked to be roped into the space marine codex faction. As a space wolf player I wish we had a separate codex because Champions of Russ would have been buff sooner then a year after release. What don’t understand is why Space Marine act as one giant faction. While in chaos CSM, World Eaters, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons are all separate.
I have two theories. The first theory is that the people creating the factions and rules are not communicating to each other. Like at all.
The second is they wanted to make factions for each specific chaos god because it was a thing they committed to in seventh and are almost done.
They also stopped the extreme overpowered soup that is "Genestealer Cults, featuring zero genestealer cultists" (Brood Brothers, make the warlord one of the Imperial Guard, only take the Guard up to the limit, then because your army only consists of IG models you can add Agents of the Imperium, Knights, Titans etc). Something which was mostly lore-friendly and also had you actually fighting at a detriment (it's the same as playing it as an Imperial Guard faction except with more limitations and without a faction rule or detachment rule). That's something we can pretend to care about greatly, and chuckle a bit.
30:00 to be fair, if you're asking for models' balancing/point costs to reflect their lore strength and value at all you're asking for every single space marine model to basically have a classic dreadnought's defensive profile and an 18-inch move, and for that to be pointed appropriately
That would mean a 2000 points SM army would be a squad of marines, a character, and a vehicle. While 2000 points of tyranids would be 400 gants, 50 ripper swarms, 2 carnifexes, and 16 Tyranid Warriors (The HQ isn't present on the battlefield, as long as the synapse creatures still stand).
Armor saves maybe, but Marines being at 4 toughness is never changing. Orks have 5, and orks can survive having their stupid heads cut off for hours. Show me a marine that can survive a beheading and I'll grant you that increased toughness.
@@terrydavis5924 By this logic Ferrus Manus was t4
Give us the classic movie marines list in 10th please.
Deathwing Knights going up mostly means more Inner Circle Companions are going to be used more. Folks are still going to have Azrael lead one maxed out group while a Judiciar leads another in an Impulsor or Repulsor. Maybe even three maxed out groups. They can absolutely rip and tear their way through a variety of datasheets.
The worst thing about erad Biologis fire discipline is that they could have put all the point nerfs on Fire Discipline and nothing would change for the other detachments.
I saw the balance notes released and couldn't wait for you dorks to talk about it.
29:30 As a Dark Angels player I get the frustration with non marine players. I would be annoyed too if another faction that had access to loads of detachments were moaning about their stuff. But I think GW should split each of the divergent chapters into their own books and have the SM units in them separately and pointed separate accordingly like they have done with chaos legions.
Bricky bringing up my White Scars build was a nice surprise.
White Scars 2K (1945 points)
Space Marines
White Scars
Strike Force (2000 points)
Stormlance Task Force
CHARACTERS
Bladeguard Ancient (60 points)
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Heavy bolt pistol
• Enhancement: Portents of Wisdom
Captain (80 points)
• 1x Bolt Pistol
1x Master-crafted bolter
1x Master-crafted power weapon
Chaplain on Bike (85 points)
• 1x Absolvor bolt pistol
1x Crozius arcanum
1x Twin bolt rifle
• Enhancement: Feinting Withdrawal
Judiciar (70 points)
• 1x Absolvor bolt pistol
1x Executioner relic blade
Kor’sarro Khan (70 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Bolt Pistol
1x Moonfang
Librarian in Phobos Armour (70 points)
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Force weapon
1x Smite
Lieutenant (65 points)
• 1x Master-crafted power weapon
1x Neo-volkite pistol
1x Storm Shield
OTHER DATASHEETS
Bladeguard Veteran Squad (180 points)
• 1x Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant
• 1x Master-crafted power weapon
1x Neo-volkite pistol
• 5x Bladeguard Veteran
• 5x Heavy bolt pistol
5x Master-crafted power weapon
Bladeguard Veteran Squad (180 points)
• 1x Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant
• 1x Master-crafted power weapon
1x Neo-volkite pistol
• 5x Bladeguard Veteran
• 5x Heavy bolt pistol
5x Master-crafted power weapon
Company Heroes (95 points)
• 1x Ancient
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Bolt rifle
1x Close combat weapon
• 1x Company Champion
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Master-crafted power weapon
• 2x Company Veteran
• 2x Bolt pistol
2x Close combat weapon
1x Master-crafted bolt rifle
1x Master-crafted heavy bolter
Eliminator Squad (85 points)
• 1x Eliminator Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Instigator bolt carbine
• 2x Eliminator
• 2x Bolt pistol
2x Close combat weapon
2x Las fusil
Eradicator Squad (100 points)
• 1x Eradicator Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Melta rifle
• 2x Eradicator
• 2x Bolt pistol
2x Close combat weapon
1x Melta rifle
1x Multi-melta
Inceptor Squad (130 points)
• 1x Inceptor Sergeant
• 1x Assault bolters
1x Close combat weapon
• 2x Inceptor
• 2x Assault bolters
2x Close combat weapon
Incursor Squad (80 points)
• 1x Incursor Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Occulus bolt carbine
1x Paired combat blades
• 4x Incursor
• 4x Bolt pistol
1x Haywire Mine
4x Occulus bolt carbine
4x Paired combat blades
Infiltrator Squad (100 points)
• 1x Infiltrator Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Marksman bolt carbine
• 4x Infiltrator
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
1x Helix Gauntlet
1x Infiltrator Comms Array
4x Marksman bolt carbine
Invader ATV (60 points)
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Multi-melta
1x Twin bolt rifle
Invader ATV (60 points)
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Multi-melta
1x Twin bolt rifle
Invictor Tactical Warsuit (125 points)
• 1x Fragstorm grenade launcher
1x Heavy bolter
1x Invictor fist
1x Twin ironhail autocannon
1x Twin ironhail heavy stubber
Outrider Squad (160 points)
• 1x Outrider Sergeant
• 1x Astartes chainsword
1x Heavy bolt pistol
1x Twin bolt rifle
• 5x Outrider
• 5x Astartes chainsword
5x Heavy bolt pistol
5x Twin bolt rifle
Sternguard Veteran Squad (90 points)
• 1x Sternguard Veteran Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Sternguard bolt pistol
1x Sternguard bolt rifle
• 4x Sternguard Veteran
• 4x Close combat weapon
4x Sternguard bolt pistol
3x Sternguard bolt rifle
1x Sternguard heavy bolter
Exported with App Version: v1.22.0 (51), Data Version: v488
Nice list! How do you use the bladeguard ancient in this list? I don’t have one but I’ve been considering painting one for fun and would like to use them too.
@frostypineapple He uses the Enhancement - Portents of Wisdom, so he can re-roll Advance. Then, when they enter Battle, I use his abilities to add 1 added attack to 6 Blade Guards & Kor'sarro Khan.
The Khan also makes so all the Guns have assault.
Just finished listening to the podcast, these by far are always my favorite episodes. Hope Bricky continues to be a reoccurring guest cause the dynamic is perfect
39:40 I actually prefer to do the opposite with the termies: give them mark of tzeentch abd all bolters with a sorcerer, they tend to just fill the enemy with so many ap 1 shots that they either have to spend a cp for armour of contempt (if they have it) or just run the risk of making 40+ saves
Hot Take: Each Space Marine divergent chapter only gets access to 6 total Detachments, the 2-3 in your Codex and make up the difference with specific detachments from the General Space Marine Codex. For Example: Blood Angels get their 3 codex detachments plus Gladius, First Company Task Force, and maybe Firestorm (???). This gives them a broad range of options but doesn't overwhelm with choices.
1.3 games per month? That implies my army isn't just supposed to live in a glass cabinet?
As a player who owns(ed) 2000 points of Kroot -- I can say that they are a sleeper army, they have a lot of wombo combo that you can put into play -- but when you start targeting their unique pieces they fall apart unless played well.
A lot of players talk about how kroot doesn't have answers to armor, but they do via all of the wombo resulting in saying screw the odds we just go brrrrr -- they are T'au orks in essence.
I am also playing kroot. Although it’s far or a mixture between tau and kroot. And from what I can tell the kroot did not like the system mechanics change at all.
A weekend episode in officially shook
God it pisses me off how likeable bricky is, how dare you
I think GeeDub kinda like Bungle, leave stuff out so that it generates content and buzz with them effectively doing less.
Bungle (what I call Bungie studios) would leave lots of stats on their guns in Destiny 1 &2 not visible so you had an entire ecosystem of guys who would farm up multiple versions of the weapon and do tests to see which perks were worthwhile and which were shite.
4:50 Everyone else sees that Space Wolf's shoulder as the McDonald's logo _every single time_ right?
I need a host exchange episode where bricky tries to lead an episode in the poorhammer style with eric as cohost and brad tries to lead an episode of adric with dk as cohost
I think Brad makes a good point about space marines. As the subscription service faction, we are very used to just buying whatever combo box looks good, buying used models on a discount, or buying something that just looks cool. There is so much variety and the detachment rules are vague enough that you kind of assume you can run a little bit of everything
We build up these massive 4k point collections only to realize that we dont have a single 2k list that actually synergizes well into even a casually viable list, let alone competitive. While we have some good stuff, there is so much available that the odds we have enough for a good list is unlikely. Space marine players are used to being able to slap any model on the table, pick the detachment that works best for what theyve got, and assume it will be at least okay which has not been the case with 10th. You might have some aggressors, but if you dont have 6 with a gravis captain or calgar, you may as well have 0.
I see this clearly with orks. If you wanna play bully boys, you need 18 meganobz, 2 trukks, and Ghaz. It would be silly to play bully boyz where 60% of your list is boyz, killa kanz, and squigz. Its like obviously your list is going to suck and no one is going to have sympathy for you. But its very clear from 1st reading of the codex that you need to pick a direction, and each subfaction tells you exactly what units you need to make a good list. This is not the case with space marines, which from reading the codex, you would assume they are a generalist faction.
The problem again comes back to space marines and all the snowflake subfactions having too much variety which can let the serious players with high knowledge and lots of foresight to pick out only the best subfactions, characters, and units, while the casual guy buying whatever used models or combo boxes he can scrape together is left with over-costed bad units because some space wolves or blood angels players broke the game.
Space marines are kind of advertised as a versatile generalist army, and I think they should play that way. I hate to say it, but I think at least in 10th edition, the best way to fix that is actually to remove a lot of the rules from the detachments and let space marines stand alone as simply good datasheets. Your unit shouldnt suck just because its actually good only if you play in X detachment with Y leader. I know thats how most other factions work, but space marines are the entry point with way too much variety, which doesnt mesh well as the faction with highly specialized viable army compositions.
Let newbies build their first space marine army out of whatever odds and ends they find and do okay, then when they actually understand the game and want to engage in some more niche strategizing, buy into a different army.
To summarize, i think a poorly optimized and poorly played space marine army should be able to beat a poorly optimized/played army of any other faction, but a well optimized/played space marine army should mostly lose against a good player with a well built list. This would make space marines much less competitively viable and I am totally fine with that.
Edit: im only talking about generic space marines here, DA, BA, SW, and whatever others should be highly specialized and shouldnt be allowed to take anything they want from regular SM. I think thats what those players want anyway. I just think generic marines should be kind of a skill check for other players and should get boring after a while which would encourage them to start a 2nd army. Space marines, the true "little brother" army that can put up a decent fight even if they are wielded by a child with whatever units you have lying around.
Suprised no mention about the black Templar point changes was expecting to hear something about black tide lists
So as someone playing chaos knights in a crusade (the need for take all comers lists may push a bit of a skewed view point here) but in my experience, my abominant has actually come in clutch a ton of times. And the fact that when a unit takes battle shock tests when below starting strength while within a foot of a chaos knight model seems to make battle shock WAY more impactful. I think just suicide rushing 3 abominants might actually be a wildly effective slant list to force early shocks and force them all game.
The amount of games played comment was such a mood. I remember one year in particular when I only got 1 game. I would have loved to get a guaranteed game every month.
Okay, random idea my playing group talked about, but when it comes to knobs to turn, what if your army gave you 3 strategems and 2 enhancements that would be accessible in all detachments? You could then make a foundation upon which to build and it could add variety.
The minute I heard Brad say Bricky was the Cohost I knew that Bricky was going to steal Eric's "Sounds Good" and I am so glad that I was right.
You know something I find very interesting is why hasn't games workshop decided that if you're running a specific character detachment that it gets pointed differently like say you're running the blood Angels specific characters okay now you have your generic units pointed to reflect that so it way you can leave the detachments mostly alone yet still Nerf the armies that are using certain attach ments in incredibly dumb ways that makes them very annoying and it also lets them balance the generics without having to worry about that big chapter breaking them
Big point about sisters is the big buff to pent host which happens to be the box coming out for xmas
It seems y'all missed it, but for Tyranids, Neurogaunts got hit pretty hard by the FAQ. They no longer expand Synapse if they are getting it from other Neurogaunts or a Neurotyrant's ability. It doesn't necessarily sound like a ton but you used to be able to (or at least argue for) giving them Neurotyrant Synapse as long as they were within 12", then make their own move and advance giving you a lot of range on Synapse for a round while keeping the Neurotyrant safe, such as rushing them forward to give your melee Synapse on a charge for the extra strength. Now without that they don't do a whole lot because they just can't extend it that far.
As much as I complain about Warriors being glass you can get a unit of 3 Ranged Warriors that provide some killing power and have more bulk for 65 while generating Synapse on their own while Neurogaunts are 45. I'm not sure why you'd ever take them unless you have 45 to 55 points left over, don't want any more enhancements, and don't want rippers. Maybe to stick on backline objective if the opponent doesn't have any deep strike?
To fix divergent chapters for space Marines, give non divergent a point increase outside of generic marines
Never forget that Repentia cost more points than Lychguard.
If you're using a model from outside the Codex: Space Marines, then you should follow the rules specific to that model's faction.
The Red, Green, Black, and Blue wretches can still be played as Codex: Space Marines, as long as you only include units from the Codex: Space Marines.
It doesn't make sense to nerf an army just because a different army is using its own models with your rules.
Idk why it’s so hard to say, the Divergent Chapters should get handled the way the special snowflake CSM are handled. Give them the generic vehicles, a handful of units required to fill out their lists like veterans and Intercessors of all flavors and then separate them from generic Ultramarines. They shouldn’t be Space Marines +
Bricky's "...man I hate t'au" out of nowhere and the immediate laughter absolutely killed me - I'm sorry, you guys just have to work harder not to get shot off the board next time
And if I’m not mistaken, the tau can barely do that anymore, right?
By the time I get around to being able to play any 40K, there’s been an update and some of my points values have changed again.
For the love of the Emperor, give the White Scars their own codex supplement for 10th. Stormlance Detachment doesn't do enough for the White Scars and makes it too focused on vehicles, which isn't everything with the white scars. The White Scars have other units they can use in their lore and that should be fleshed out like with other chapters.
Bricky's comments on World Eaters reminds me of how Khorne played in AoS 3rd edition. The army itself was a bit more strategic than just full sending it down mid lane - rather, your units were a little fragile, and a little slow, and the strategy came from using your tools to get into melee in the first place. You had a faction mechanic that gave you points when units died (mostly), so you had to learn when to use them to speed up some guys into a favourable fight, when to use them to summon some surprise bloodletters, when to auto-deny a key spell, and so on.
When played well, you could compensate for the faction weaknesses and shitstomp in melee, but if you didn't you'd get shot and spelled to bits. I have no clue how they play in 4th edition (beyond in melee), but if 40k GW wanted to copy AoS GW's homework again then giving WE that extra strategic layer would be a good way to do it.
Tau should be the Soulblight gravelords of 40k, the mishmash of everything. I get making detachments, but i want to field a bunch of kroot and vespids *alongside* my tau, not instead of my tau.
Isn’t that how it used to be? I haven’t played since 3rd edition
Yeah, I mean I mainly run kroot tau (like 75% kroot and then tau tanks and AP stuff)
For GSC I support more controlled randomness of cult ambush.
It should be influenceable by the GSC player and the opponent. Maybe something like: you have a roll of 5+ or 6+ to start out with, every one you fail adds one to the next test, every success resets to the original. Maybe an attached character guarantees the respawn or adds +1
That way both players have control. The GSC player at 5+ can just sacrifice a cheap unit because he expects a more expensive one to die next turn, and an opponent can kill GSC units with respect to the state of the roll.
But some units should be barred from returning, like Aberrants and Jackals but be either dropped in cost or increased in lethality. Broodbrothers should be integrated into all detachments.
Specialist detachments could allow their units, normally barred from returning, allow it as part of their detachment rule, that way they’d feel more impactful in their detachment or if that’s too strong, under the usage of stratagems (maybe once per unit or even once per game)
Entry level World Eaters: Unga Bunga.
Enlightened level World Eaters: I Unga, Therefore I Bunga.
Im new to the hobby and started work on a 2000 point CSM army supplemented with a Knight Abominant. As a Vashtorr and Knight Abominant enjoyer, Im very happy with recent changes, not only that but with the changes on terminators, legionaries, etc I was able to include my rhino, so basically i can run all the models I want to run for exactly 2000 points and i dont have to drop 5 legionaries to fit the rhino in. The dark gods have been especially generous!!!! Now back to painting the rhino
Did you by the rhino?
@@1inimilian567 I was told it would be free!
You SAY no one would be happy running an Outrider ATV, but I have been brewing up a White Scares successor army called 'The Surf Sharks' who carry surf boards and grills on their vehicles and have sand and splashing water bases and the dune buggy would be PERFECT for them! Add a couple boards to the sides, rework one of the drivers hands so he's doing the 'surfs up' sign and have the gunner helmet less and wearing sunglasses... that's the center piece of the army baby!
I do crusade, playing fists so I'm obligated for anvil. Honestly I'm winning most games, but the weird part is the very limited number of heavy weapons.
Devestators, intercessors, heavy intercessors, desolators, eliminators, scouts, infiltrators, hellblasters, lancer, executioner... And one in a tactical. Like... It's not a lot and a lot is S4, AP 0 or 1.
Give divergents something cool. Gimme a thunderfire cannon or a rapier carrier!
Ope forgot suppressors
Brad is so good at crapping on space marines I could almost hear his rant over my 50% win rate
21:06 deathwatch players would like a word