i think the reason people are angry at her for promoting unethical brands is because she is a "punk" content creator and one of the main things about being punk is being anti-consumerism and making your own clothing
@Samkainsta I mean i have tons of friends in the punk scene who go by this so that's just what i've picked up on from them and other punk content creators
All alternative subcultures are anti-consumerist and diy idk why ppl wanna argue ab this (Yes I go to shows hardcore punk and screamo mostly I’m active in my local scene)
don't feel bad to donate your clothes from shein. If I see something cute at goodwill and it feels to be decent quality, I don't really care what brand it comes from because I'm not directly supporting that brand. I feel like most people feel that way
I just care that the products and clothes have been found to have a ton of lead and other heavy, dangerous amounts of chemicals. So I would want nothing to do with those clothes, I avoid SHEIN when I thrift and I’m not a huge fan of the contaminated clothes being mixed in with other clothing.
I dont think we should shame others. I still dont want to find shien second hand. But i can just hopefully skip over it. My issue is im worried that it will just all be fast fashion.
Frog owner here! You can actually hold frogs without gloves, but with VERY washed hands without soap. It can be safe but you can’t hold them for more than a minute
@@dq8431 so what I mean is that you wash your hands very hard all around with just water and a scrubbing brush that is clean, and you can only hold them while your hands are wet and not dry or hot and sweaty
Yea, but she played with her acrylic nails on the frog, and simply uses her frogs for videos. She even let one of her frogs try to eat the other frog😰 they are cannibalistic, so... yeah, shes a Great animal friend...
As an ol skool metalhead (just turned 57 a few days ago), I honestly HATE gatekeeping. The 70-80's gave birth to metal. It's not what yo wear, your hair, or what genre or subgenra we didn't care about. Did you head bang? Yes? Welcome to the brotherhood my dude. No joke, that's how me and my crowd were anyway. RAIS YOUR HORNS!!!
Nah if I know I can look better than you and you try to come at me in a bathroom while I’m minding my business just bc I didn’t wanna do too much that day, you’re gonna walk out with fewer teeth in your mouth. That’s gonna show her what punk means.
agreed. like there’s always gonna be people who support unethical brands and are losers lol. just ignore her edit: POSER not loser. and i say poser cause she promotes anti punk behaviour while making money off it
From what I’ve learned about this situation in a short time is it comes down to fake punks on social media are pissed at another fake punk for not being a cookie cutter tiktok “punk”. None of these people on tiktok in their punk costumes are real punks they are cosplayers. Actual punks wouldn’t be policing social media all day and night like cops.
i mean imo( i am not punk im more goth/metalhead/general alt ) i feel like being a poser is not really abad thing . i mean if they were doing bad shit then they are bad but just being a poser ain't a crime . the aesthetic is cute and appealing if they wanna play dress up go right ahead
basically it’s cause she uses “punk” to like make money. which is the opposite of punk. and promoting unethical brands and consumerism which is NOT very punk
my thing is, i hate how most of the people who label themselves as "punk" nowadays are nowhere near actually punk. punk in itself is not just an aesthetic, yet people use it as one and that's what pisses people off. if you want to dress in a punk-esque fashion, then go ahead. its fine. just dont label yourself as punk if you're actually the living definition of consumerism. there is a difference between being punk and dressing in the style. (is that the right word?? sorry i have trouble with that stuff :[ )
You realize the majority of what you consider punk only exists because of fashion designers managing the sex pistols. Punk has always been an artificial genre created by the industry to piss of your parents.
When I saw "frog murderer", I was expecting something like what my dad bragged about to me once where he cut a live frog in half with scissors like it was normal. THAT is frog murder. People need to chill and not just assume so much.
I'm just confused why she's the only one getting hate. Majority of tiktokers who have frogs handle them in that way, like it was very normal to see people do that at that time. (I say at the time bc there was a time on the Internet where frogs were big on TikTok. And honestly that's iconic, I love frogs) Not saying that means it's okay, it just means that its very easy to get misinformed.
Thank god we weren't doing social media when I was a teen. The alternative crowd back then, which btw the term alt wasn't a thing yet(we were all just a bunch of "freaks" with some punks and goths sprinkled in there), wasn't so stupidly stringent about who is what and the criticism was nowhere near as bad as is it now. It's absolutely crazy to watch tt freak out over really liytle things. I get some of the arguments being brought forward however its being used to gatekeep and prop up elitist attitudes.
Ikr, like so much for standing against society. I wish they'd stop gatekeepers bc baby bats and emos obviously need to explore before they sit comfortably in the group, just be happy with who you are
@@Mike_Oxlong07 or maybe just be accepting of new people, and the fact that you can like more than one genre, gatekeeping is stupid and just a petty way to feel better about yourself.
Ok thats chronically online 😭 "exploiting the frogs for views" it's ok to film your pets haha funny moments, the only thing that is wrong is if she was purposely harming them for views or rage baiting the frogs for views 💀
You know what's actually chronically online? Putting frogs on dirty surfaces that harms them just to make a tiktok and then arguing in the comments that you're smarter than literal biology. She started using gloves after people didn't let that slip. Mainly for peace and not for the good of the animal. Still put them in places they shouldn't be tho. Because she doesn't care about them, just the views they bring. Wow "chronically online" seems more like you. Defending a random ignorant person for funzies. With no actual arguments too. Lmao.
This is why I don't consider myself part of any kind of (sub)culture/group. I'm not goth, I'm not punk, I'm not alt. I like what I like and I wear what I want to wear. People will ALWAYS have something to say and it's never good enough. People are so quick to judge without knowing the full picture so I just don't care about any of it.
@@Kash-eb7rjomg wow youre so cool for gatekeeping music and clothes!! She literally just said she isnt. Relax, dude. Youre not better than anyone because you wear a black hoodie and watch goth/alt youtube creators.
Punks since the beginning of the subculture made their own clothes. They ripped up shirts jeans jackets pinned them painted them scuffed them messed them up. Shoes were well worn and well loved. Makeup was messy and ugly. Pink jackets were DIYed and were supposed to be unique to you. If the charity shops are too expensive for you or your a minor, do it yourself!! That’s literally the point!!!! Rifle through your family members closet, repurpose what you already have. There are so many other options than shopping with shein.
We really wore ugly, harsh makeup! Huge wings and garish colors. Smeared lipstick, etc. Nowadays, I think a lot of us were trying to keep away douche bag guys with this unintentionally, I think.
@@Tores444 I was agreeing with the first comment that our makeup was not “pretty”. The eyeliner was in a huge “wing” on the outside of the eye and inside towards the nose and sometimes down the nose. We made our own clothing from thrift stores and the family closet. Ripped and put back together with safety pins.🧷 I was also saying that maybe the “ugly makeup”, as I put it, was to scare away the potentially creepy guys from back in the day. It worked, mostly. Is that clearer for you to understand?
I've been a Metalhead and Goth for 16 years and I've been a Pokémon for 21 years, I love the Piplup plush. Edit: I meant Pokémon fan for 21 years. If I was a Pokémon I'd be Dialga and or Charizard X.. also I love Goth Rock, Deathrock and Darkwave too and some classical music.
@@thelastdaybreathinginetern1385 honestly I'm glad they didn't give a set one, as excited as I am. If they had a set release date they might end up rushing and making a bad product
I think people are just mad at her for saying she’s punk while she buys her clothing from unethical fast fashion brands such as shien/romwe. The point of being punk is DIY. I think people should be talking about that aspect of her and also the fact that she was rude to a fellow alternative person! There was a video on TikTok of a woman who met with Caroline and Caroline was just rude to her for wearing a shirt advertising “The Church” which is a long time running goth club.
If you're talking about the club in Denver, what a throwback. That was my home away from home back when I was a goofy little mushroom-infused raver. 😂 Was a cool, kitschy little hangout though. The rooftop VIP section was ridiculously easy to sneak into, and had a great view.
or how she’s just rude to other alternative people in general after switching her style around 2021 and that’s why people are so critical of her in the first place.
oh girl i LOVE this take, we seriously need more people who are in the middle, don't choose a side and just talk about the facts. Everyone feels like they have to choose a side and it's soooo toxic. I love this. I've never seen you and I subscribed to you immediately after watching this video lol
Thank you so much! I was pretty worried putting it out their bc everyone is so cut throat and I think it’s pretty unnecessary, like we can all be chill 😌
Goth, punk and metal is a music based subculture. So if you listen to the music then congrats you are punk, goth or metalhead. I feel really bad for baby bats who have to grow up with social media the way it is nowadays. I mean we had MySpace but I was never called a poser online. Or see a TikTok where someone says “you can’t be goth if you don’t shop at killstar.” I think when influencer like the aesthetic of alternative with out the music and trying to tell younger ppl what they are or aren’t than gate keeping is necessary but done respectfully. Also I do think there is Misogyny going on as well. I think the major hate is caused by her allegedly conservative views.
@@Deletiriumconsidering these subcultures were built on bucking AGAINST conservative principles in both aesthetics and ideology… yeah, conservatives have no place in any of these scenes.
8:41 - counter point: this is an argument I see all the time. The whole point of punk in the alt scene is being DIY. Learn a skill!! rip and tear your own clothes!! Make the items you want. That's more ethical and cheaper than buying from reputable brands. And when you are able to, buy from those brands!! There is literally no good reason to spend money on fast fashion. We're better than that. This isn't gatekeeping, it's holding folks accountable.
Okay but in order to even have clothes to rip and tear up, we're gonna have to get them from somewhere. With prices getting higher and higher in thrift stores, fast fashion is the most affordable option for most people. You're speaking from a place of privilege if you can be picky about where you get your clothes because not everyone has that option. You're right that it's not gatekeeping, but it's also not holding people accountable, it's actually not understanding or caring about other people's financial situations.
@@Maglors_grief ok but Caroline can do all that DIY stuff bc she is privileged herself,i'm lower middle class and i get what you're saying but this doesn't apply to her.
Yo if you will not wear your shein clothes anymore, bring them to goodwill. As a regular degular ass poor person, I can’t really be choosy about which brands are super duper fun and ethical. I have to go with what’s cute & cheap- that’s it. Those with the ability to simply pay the $60 for a cute outfit can continue to do so & frankly until it’s common place to just spend $60 on a piece of clothes all Willy nilly, then you can shit on me for wearing unethical clothes. It’s really picky & choosy to me lmfao, when y’all happily have iPhones using batteries mined using child slavery but shit on randoms for wearing shein as if it isn’t the same thing. Hypocrisy is fucking insane to me, how the fuck is fast fashion & worker exploitation in one area so much more important than in others?
At a certain point it’s performative. You don’t genuinely care, you just don’t want teenagers to shit on you online. Nobody would dog someone irl for wearing shein unless they were a rich stuck up piece of shit, in which case, most people would say “what the fuck is wrong with you?” because adults don’t call adults out for their choices in necessities.
It's all a bunch of high school bullshit. Just wear what you enjoy and like. It's nearly impossible to find something that isn't tied to some unethical action if you go down the rabbit hole.
@@RansomTRabbitright. Even big brands are known for exploring people from poor countries and are known for being unethical yet people still buy them, Chanel, Adidas, Gucci and so go on are tested on animals for example yet nobody cares. At this point people should know that the clothes industry is unethical in general.
@@RansomTRabbit Exactly. I found out the other day that the Always brand tests on animals - if we cancelled every youtuber/tiktoker that wore Always pads and/or tampons, we'd end up cancelling a good 50% of women online.
So just doing a google search on her turns out a lot more reasons for the hate than you give. Like a lot more. The frog thing seems to have been a bigger deal than you imply. She also apparently bullied a minor on the internet when she was like 19 or 20. Having lived in the area she's from, can confirm stories of her being a fuckin asshole. Which isnt a crime.
Yea, she basically let one of her frogs try to eat the other one and just laughed and let it keep going. Frogs are cannibalistic. She dragged its arms with her false Acrylic nails back and forth, almost tearing them off 😰
Don’t you love how the communities based around accepting everyone for who they are so they have a community that allows them to express themselves how they want, have now started gatekeeping the community from people they believe don’t 1000% match the personality of the masses?
These communities are not based solely on acceptance tho. Yes acceptance is up there in their values, but there are more important things. You either protect the culture from certain things/people, or you let it fall apart. Yes gatekeepers are annoying, but without them setting boundaries the culture would be assimilated and just become a bunch of people listening to music with no community around it.
it's wild how people will do literally anything to find reasons to hate on women. i watched this twenty minute video and didn't see ANY valid reason to hate her, all i saw was that she's a person like all of us and makes mistakes and wants to do things that make her happy.
So a cursory search on Google comes up with that when she was 19 or 20 she bullied like a 14 year old online, apparently the frog thing was a lot worse than this video implies. Like people started politely telling her not to handle her frogs like that, she ignored them or argued. Then there was a bunch of other drama she's tied to. And that's all the stuff just from the internet. I lived in Texas, she started working in the town I lived in so I got to hear all about her presence in that scene. It wasn't great.
That person's 'meeting her in the bathroom' situation is crazy. To quote them all Caroline said was 'you go to the church?' - which imo could be a completely innocent attempt at making conversation. I know very little about the whole situation but I think it's unfair to assume someone's intention with a question and turning it into a tirade against her. Also to say 'she doesn't even go to the church' followed immediately by 'ive seen her there three times' is so silly and a complete contradiction. No hate to the person who made that video but it's just a perfect example of biased storytelling.
Yeah, I noticed that contradiction too lol. I do think she seems rude in person since multiple people have shared stories, but that "she's only been there 3 times" thing was a bit silly.
Dude, thank god social media wasnt a thing when I was younger. I saw the Hex girls from scooby doo and one (1) goth girl at my high school and suddenly decided to make it my whole personnality for 4 years. Couldnt change my musical taste tho, so I looked goth, but listenned to pussycat doll, madonna and that one 'airplaine in the night sky' song. Also, now its years later and I realise that my obsession had less to do with the style of those people and more with the fact that I was a baby gay in denial
I was the weird goth kid but also a jock so wrap that around your head 😅😂. I did track, volleyball, basketball and hockey all while being the weird goth kid. Though I will say I had it better then most I didn't get picked on like the others because I had my teammates to back me up 😂 that along with the shot putt team training weights with the football players I think headed some warnings. Point is just because you don't fit into the cookie cutter mold doesn't mean your a poser. I've been in the goth and metal community since 13. Gatekeeping is lame.
Wait really ? I live in Europe and thrifting here is very very inexpensive. Personally I only buy a couple of items when I go thrifting bc overconsumption when thrifting is definitely a thing but usually it’s like 5-10 euros for tops and a little more for bottoms but nothing insane!
@@ritamoniz413 that's so interesting to hear. I'm from Serbia and we have 'specialized' thrift stores that carry second hand clothing from Spain and Portugal.
You should never bring that kind of bullying back. When i wanted to be friends with metalheads,they called me a poser for not knowing the whole discography of whatever band they pulled out of their ass. The standards were impossible to meet just to be accepted in the community. I was called a poser also because i was a female so i'd have older men come at me for no reason at all, and just plain bully me, on whatever i did. Like, imagine already not being accepted by the society, and then not even by the people who like the same things as you do.
LOL how I feel about Tx2 her friend and I feel the same too about Caroline. I used to look at Punk and Goth TikTok and Instagram, but when MGK and Tx2 and others got way too repetitive and sharing thee same Skit, over and over again... I just unaided the Emo Punk Posers. I grew up 1989-2008 to being a teen in the '08 and well to this day, I used to like Green Day, Slipknot MCR and such.. but I grew up in the 90's with Bauhaus on , the Pixies on my old CD's and stuff... I feel like I got more Punk and Gothic Alt Rock in my upbringing than most Emo 30's have... So when I hear of Caroline, tx2 MgK I just keep scrolling and don't elfing care. Lol why? I atl least have more punk rock integrity in my veins. LOL wow kids are weird on TikTok and IG and sites today. Keep it up Moo! Love the Channel!
@@PlxsteredH34rt the easiest way to get into it is to probably listen to vermillion pt 2, (I think pt 1 is better, but personal preference) then work your way down, my favorite is probably Custer, killpop, Spit it Out, Eyeless, and (sic). Their popular music is a great way to get started too, remember that everyone is welcome as long as they're respectful ❤
@@PlxsteredH34rt it's all good, it's always hard to find a good starting point to new things, sometimes diving in is the best way to do it though and if you like softer songs (like Vermillion pt 2) try Corey's other band Stone Sour (their most popular is looking glass)
@@arij8704 Custer was the one if I’m fairly honest I found first which made me want to get into their music. Definitely my favourite from them for the time being
I’m not a fan of hers but I think people are just hating for something to do. Unfortunately, there are people out there with personalities that grate against others and it results in what we see now. The frog thing got fixed, even if it wasn’t fixed as quickly as people wanted, and she doesn’t do the whole Vanellope/Ralph thing anymore. She even cringes at that point in her life. People change as they grow older and some (like myself) enter their alt lifestyle after their teen years for various reasons. Doesn’t make them a “poser.” Social media has been the worst thing for society because people use it as a means to base whether someone is a good person or not simply by what they posted 10 years ago. Apparently, there’s no such thing as learning and growing as a person to the masses of the internet. Unless she’s committing real crimes, hurting real people, and killing animals outright leave her alone. Don’t like her? Just scroll past, no need to put effort into hating someone who isn’t aware of your existence anyways…
I hate her bc she made an O.F. and charged like $25 for totally normal cosplay pictures (nothing wrong with that, heres where the issue comes in) and wrote in the bio that no one should be complaining about the price or the content because shes "not just some random girl on the internet", shes her. As if shes... not just some random girl from the internet??? and shaming swers is not punk
People talk about shein all the time if there anything affordable And I’m sure id thrift but guess what IM IN THE UK there’s only charity shops as the equivalent and they aren’t even good stuff unlike thrifts the closest stores of salt clothing is like a hour away I’m a minor
@Samkainsta people have forgotten that most alternative subcultures didn't have affordable ready-made clothes back in their heyday either. people would buy the less than ideal grandma clothing from charity shops and then modify them - re-dying, restructuring the whole garment, covering it in patches or decorations to make it look better.
@@inesaldazabalruiz2793 Do you know exactly where they live? The demographics in their area? You don't just see one person make a video on TikTok and create a blanket statement like that. That's just plain ignorant.
@@DylonsBBGorl Of course if you don't have time that's perfectly understandable, and if something is preventing you from being able to learn these skills that's also understandable. But if you are able to learn it, the ability to modify clothing is really useful and generally the whole foundation of what most alternative subcultures fashion developed from.
I keep seeing all this stuff about Caroline all over youtube and social media where people are dragging her or saying she's x, y or z and it's honestly just kind of annoying at this point. She's not worth viciously cancelling or something, especially when there's far bigger fish doing far worse like ImAllexx that I've seen way less in my feed about. It's so annoying when everyone online is just piggybacking trying to milk the "drama" with Caroline instead of talking about way more important things than some apparently fake punk artist.
Honestly I don't feel like Caroline has done anything wrong. She has never called herself punk ( to my knowledge ). She made a sincere apology without begging for forgiveness and she has actually taken accountability. So what's the problem? People can make whatever music they want about whatever they want. They can cover whatever song they want I can make a cover of 7 rings even though I've never liked nor listened to Ariana Grande. Caroline can make a cover of a song regardless of how "punk" she is. Its a cover. Its not copying the song. She has openly stated it's a cover, she didn't try to pretend like she has written it. Personally, I like Cherry Bomb, both the original and Caroline's version. They're different but both fun to listen to. If people don't like her music that's ok, but they don't have to come over on the internet and say stuff to get her cancelled when she's not done much wrong. This whole video was basically about "nothing" ( let me explain ) as there's no serious things to cover. She didn't do anything actually harmful. Maybe she has bought some shein clothes but so did 90% of people complaining about her lets be honest come on. I take fast fashion as veganism, by not buying from shein you will not change anything because most people will still buy from it, same with vegans, you will not change anything by not eating that steak. The cow is already dead. Conclusion? Caroline Carr is great, she's a good singer, a good influencer and there's nothing to go off of on her
You should watch the videos of people who have met her in person. She’s not a nice person, she’s the exact opposite of how she shows herself in videos. A nasty elitist who thinks they’re better than others.
Social media is an easy way to seem concerned or ethical without any work. Why would you go outside and try to make a difference when you can scream at someone for buying clothes? It’s an easy way to gain social brownie points
for the thrifting chapter thank you for saying bc my mom doesn't have much money on her all the time but she does it's either ross or shein, and i'm really scared to be a young person who love alt fashion and music while wearing shein bc i don't have enough from my job but i glad you said in the same way i would say it too others. again thank you for being my guide in the alt world!!! ♥
I truly don't know what my label was in high school nor in the present time(I'm 31!), but that's because I listen to more than just one genre, dress in bright ass clothes, wear fishnets on my arms, etc. I listen to kpop, for goodness sake! There's just a lot of music genres that I absolutely love and adore, so I wouldn't exactly label myself as 'goth'. I'd say I'm more whatever the fuck I want to dress as, represent myself as, listen to, etc. Also, supporting a brand and just wearing the clothes are two different things. You can wear the clothes without supporting whatever happens with said brand.
I don't know who she is, I'm too old for for TikTok lol, but, if she came up to me questioning my 'alt credentials' I wouldn't laugh in her face. My teen years started in 1999, I've been through the trenches of being "Goth" when it was hated.
My teen years were in the 80's. I listened to Specimen and Gene Loves Jezebel, wore skull buckle pikes and a bunch of black eyeliner to high school. I not only lived through the Reagan years I also had to live through all of the Marilyn Manson neo-goth crap of the late 90's/early 2000's.
You have an actual adult non chronically online take on this whole thing. I really appreciate you understanding that this stuff really isn’t something to waste all your energy on. I have no opinion on Caroline either, i just don’t care. She was willing to correct her behavior on what really caused harm, which was how she handled her frogs. The rest of this is truly meaningless. I grew up more “alternatively” and would still say I’m emo adjacent nine years later, but I think wasting energy on who’s a poser and who isn’t is such a meaningless internet thing to participate in. Subscribed for your level headed take that wasn’t just you chastising this person for being human. Because come on, we all suck in some ways 😭 having an online platform doesn’t change that. We need to stop holding people to perfect standards, and I’m not even defending Caroline, I just think she’s getting attacked relentlessly and it’s kind of absurd
I was one of the people who called her out on the frog thing. U see most people actually were being nice about it when they first told her. However she didnt listen for like months, and kept posting video's of the frogs without gloves and with very sharp nails. She ignored everything that people were saying, So eventually people started hating. Due to the hate she decided to do it. You have to compare frog skin to your arm without any skin only flesh. You wouldn't let someone's bare hands and sharp nails come close to you? It would be extremely sensitive and even painful if the hands are dry (its like sandpaper for frogs). She can make mistakes, yes she is human. But ignoring something like this as a plublic figure is gonna make you look bad. The frog murdering thing was because her frogs dissapeared for a while, and when they eventually came back on the internet, people were convinced they weren't the same frogs due to color and size. However i'm not sure if this is true. I dont like her because she knew what she was doing at some point and i think that is not okay when it comes to animals no matter what size. You can clearly see her hands are bone dry, people who handle frogs correctly without gloves have very wet and even dirt covered hands.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate, yes she presents a "punk" image but she herself has said that she doesn't identify as such. So like people need to wind their neck in imo. I mean, yeah, call her out for supporting a terrible brand but don't come for someone not being 'punk enough' when they don't identify as one to begin with. 😂
I feel like influencer gets thrown around too loosely because a musician who influences their audience through their music are influencers but everyone with a following are being called an influencer to the point it’s lost all meaning!
I feel evert part of that, trying to make friends in the punk/alt community. I'm not a big make up wearer but my hole wardrobe is 93% black and has been since i was a kid over 10 years ago now, but because I don't do some heavy dark makeup or any makeup everytime I go out I'm apparently some kind of lazy wannabe to some people in the scene????
The thing with thrifting is that not everybody can access it. I live in a small island, there is only one thrift shop and on Sundays there is a huge second hand market in some places of the island. The thing is, here thrifting is expensive, size exclusive and the clothes tend to be really not nice at all, Vinted does not ship here and shopping from Depop gets really expensive with the shipping costs, and is also not really size inclusive, I actually purchased some clothes of my size and some were too big, some were too small. Sometimes fast fashion IS the only solution of some of us, Thrifting shouldn´t be the ONLY solution for people.
this is the first video i have seen of yours and i ddin't even know the girl you were talking about 🤣 but i stuck around and subscribed because you seem so lovely !!!! i enjoyed the video !! x
This all seems like silly fake drama made by people who spend far too much time online. The only real issue imo would be shein. Past that, people need to genuinely and desperately touch grass if those are the things they think are world stopping issues.
Ive been called a hardcore kid in 2015 for having a funeral for a friend hoodie and then couple months later was wearing dickies, a.pop punk band shirt and metioned i liked the story so far and i took that with badges of honour hahaha
everywhere i look it says it is not okay to hold frogs with your bare hands and if she sanitized/washed everything it still is bad as it is chemicals and water wouldnt get the oils on your hands off so there is no excuse to her handling her frogs without gloves. And handling them in the way she did can stress the frogs too.
All this drama makes me feel like you cant just exist in the alt community, you have to perform. You have to be perfect. I just want to be myself and its starting to sound like that is not allowed in the alt community.
I feel this, it alway happens especially when the popularity in 'alt' comes up on social! it sucks! I hope you can still find a way to be yourself and happy, anyone with something negative to say should really just be focusing on themselves
The lady making the video about how Caroline was allegedly rude to her just seemed so spiteful... like "she doesn't even go to the church, I've seen her there like 3 times" so that means she does go there? Just not often? And then saying "atleast participate in your subculture" just because you can't go to fancy goth clubs doesn't mean your not goth!!! It sucks if she was rude, but idk man
Sorry to admit this Ms. Moo, but I clicked on the video bc ur so pretty. But stayed and then subbed bc I like listening to what you have to say, and how you say it with your little quirks and whatnot.
i can count on at least to hands how many accounts i've blocked in on tiktok for crucifying her like she beheaded a bunch of babies. unfortunately, i think a lot of the online community finds comradery in bashing on the same people
I can definitely see how promoting places like Shein or Temu, etc, is a bad look for content creators, who are people able to shop ethically & I agree with that... The only thing I'm not for is shaming people who need to shop at these places because they definitely cannot afford the higher prices on items for their crafts/clothes/jewelry... (You did NOT do this, to be clear, I'm just making this point as I have seen people do that a lot...) I am disabled & know that my hobbies would not be possible if it weren't for places like these!! So I can totally see that your initial intention of making content for us, who can't afford to go all-out for concerts/festivals is a really good aim to have!! But yeah, I can also see how endorsing them as a content creator is a baaaaad look... Thank you for the video!!! I didn't know who she is, but your video was very informative!!! 🖤🖤🖤
I'm in my 30s, living through the 90s grunge and emo era, and I feel lost because I wasn't allowed to be who I wanted to in my teens and having no money but dye and sewing skills... I'm sad to see she's so hated on now. She didn't seem like a "poser" but her music didn't match her look most times, but it's hard to recreate goth music from the 80s and 90s without forcing. And it felt more pop listening to what she created.
The punk scene has always been either super open minded and non judgemental, all the way to being the most judgemental. There were always those people who wanted to make cliques, and then insult what other people wore. I remember this group of girls all decked out in their finest Hot Topic making fun of me outside of a show because I was wearing these beat up pleather pants and a shirt my friend made for me with Happy Noodle Boy. Apparently to them I was the poser, but to me they were and on top they were mean so not people I wanted to be around anyway. How I've always seen it, if you like the music you belong. The politics part can stay with the Crass crowd, I just wanted to have fun and live a meaningful life. Unfortunately the punk scene attracts many highly narcissistic people.
I'm a metal head but you would never know lol I have an outdoorsy clothing aesthetic and don't dress alternative unless i'm going to a show, so I appreciate what you said!
Regarding behavior like the reported restroom rudeness, whether a punk or a poser, posturing is the practice of petty, pesky, puny pests, and pride is a prelude played prior to the plummet to pavement.
I follow her, she does have a really cute aesthetic. I did not know she made music (I’m a fake fan lol). As far as her cover of Cherry Bomb… I think the point of covers is to add something to it. Like what Bad Wolves did with Zombie, or what Rain Paris does. I’m not saying either is a masterpiece but they added elements to cater to a larger audience. Essentially without changing any part of the song she’s just singing Karaoke. Nothing wrong with that but I’d rather give my listen to the original creator at that point.
Theres a frog hanging out in my front yard, where my air conditioner drips water. Its been there for awhile now, live behind my flower bush. Idk what to do with it. I just make sure its not in the way when i mow the lawn
I feel like there was such a surge during lockdown of alternative/experimental fashion - which is amazing to see such appreciation to sub-cultures that were given a bad name. But, it has created negative spaces surrounded by gatekeeping and just straight up negativity.
I can confirm from the other side of the world that not only they are creating more "luxury" thrift shops where u basically pay for those things as if they were new but also old thriftshops up their prices.
I think finding a baby bat in your area and giving them all your old clothes away would be better than to donate to a thrift shop because they tend to always overprice items ,even shein
I'm like you. I don't like it, I said "In my opinion, that is terrible." And I scrolled on. I do not want her on my fyp! Now... I do love the original but I've also had a big crush on Joan Jett for like... Forever. Meh. People need to stop gatekeeping. Like what you like. Be your weird lil self baby!!! ❤❤
This is a really fair look into the whole situation, I admire you for that. Granted she seems quite immature and rude if the interactions people are describing with her in person are true. But I also don't think her behavior warrants the hate train I've seen. And a lot of arguments people are bringing up against her (frog abuse, her being a "poser") I really don't feel are worth the time people are taking to talk about it. Personally. Like, the background to Cherry Bomb and punk... Sure that stuff is important, but I don't think it was a fair critique. She presumably loved the song and wanted to cover it. Great. Let people have fun and make art. I completely understand being part of a subculture and being angry at seeing it watered down to nothing but aesthetics. As a goth, the misinformation is rampant. At the end of the day though, I don't see her promoting anything harmful. She's just expressing herself. As you said, people need to learn to scroll. GRANTED, I am not familiar with her at all. So there could be more to her and the things she does... but from what I've seen in a few videos now, I don't really understand the hate.
i kinda hate it when people complain about other people supporting places like shein. Like yeah shein is bad, but sometimes it's all we can fucking afford. you think I want to buy shitty clothes from temu and shein? No, I fucking don't. But I can't fucking afford regular clothes because prices are so bad
I do like how she did learn and start handling her frogs better, and I also like how she stopped ordering fast fashion for the most part. And honestly, I know some people would think her cover of cherry bomb is bad, but people should just accept the fact that it’s litterly a cover, and they don’t need to listen to it if they don’t want to. However I don’t like how she’s rude to some of her viewers.
I don't like her but in a scene that I don't care about her. I don't think she deserves any hate whatsoever. She learned from her mistake and fixed the frog situation. Fast fashion IS a problem, but come on who can look me in the eyes and tell me that they haven't indulged in fast fashion one way or another be so for real. And chill with poser accusations you all look so silly trying to police how alternative other people are, it doesn't affect your life in the slitest
Learning her parents are rich suppar tracks for me in my brain. And her "excuse" of how she looked at 17 is kind of valid eh? I was trying to dress alt since i was 12 in 6th grade and made all my e-sonas goth since i was 7. I tried to wear black nail polish when i was like 5 lol. My senior pics were less alternative because my mom was paying for them and had to approve my clothes I remember getting my red skinny jeans in was hard. Also my Edgar allen poe tshirt. Hard ins but i got them. Looking back you can see a subdued punk baby. I have pictures with a hard hard and mudcaked boots in a white lace dress climbing a tree. Thats me. A juxtaposition.
I love the Goth and Punk aesthetic and some of the music as well. I'm terrified to dress as goth in public because I don't want people to cancel or crucify me for being a 'poser' when in reality I just find goth aesthetics to be beautiful and they make me feel beautiful.
woah i feel like ive just had a dmt trip or something trying to watch this wtf is happening??? my dejevu bumps are tingling hardcore, i dont know why. do i know you somehow ...? the fuck is going on in my brain right now? Lamb of Gods the shit for me when i think of metal right off the bat but also jackson rose and dal Av is cool anywho very bizzare experience i can't explain well. peace out mosh on 🤙
Caroline isn’t punk. She addressed it in an interview. Even if she was she is not a poser people have different aesthetics. People are allowed to change. She did not abuse her frogs at all, she simply took them out of their habitat to film videos, I understand that bacteria is bad for them. But they are still alive and doing well. She is taking good care of them. In my opinion Caroline has grew from her mistakes, look back in 2019, look at the people who ACTUALLY are animal abusers and got away with it. She’s a good person.
“Don’t ever call yourself punk. You’ll spend the rest of your life arguing about what it means.” I probably don’t like her. I also don’t care what she does. I’ll just keep doing what I do. Would be interesting to compare these kinds of things to what happened with Beki Bondage back then.
My only thing is that people are hating her on her being sponsored by SHEIN while other creators who are sponsored by SHEIN,Etsy,ect and act like its a good thing and celebrate them. I get that SHEIN is unethical but people also need to realize that a lot of people can’t afford to buy $30 jeans and thrift stores are being over run by people who resell the items they get for 3x the price (might not be in your guys area but it’s happening to mine) but I just think it’s hypocritical
i think the reason people are angry at her for promoting unethical brands is because she is a "punk" content creator and one of the main things about being punk is being anti-consumerism and making your own clothing
@Samkainsta I mean i have tons of friends in the punk scene who go by this so that's just what i've picked up on from them and other punk content creators
@samkainsta yes it does hehe thats why people are mad at her and calling her a poserrrrr
All alternative subcultures are anti-consumerist and diy idk why ppl wanna argue ab this (Yes I go to shows hardcore punk and screamo mostly I’m active in my local scene)
@@Sturmgeist899 Yes i agree
@Samkainsta It's not arbitrary, it's to preserve the culture. If you wanna be a punk, you do that with your whole chest.
don't feel bad to donate your clothes from shein. If I see something cute at goodwill and it feels to be decent quality, I don't really care what brand it comes from because I'm not directly supporting that brand. I feel like most people feel that way
I got something from goodwill that was from SHEIN
@@brunette_st4rg1rl12 same, and it's one of my favorite skirts, actually lmao
i think it’s less about the brand and more about the quality and safety of garments from shein.
I just care that the products and clothes have been found to have a ton of lead and other heavy, dangerous amounts of chemicals. So I would want nothing to do with those clothes, I avoid SHEIN when I thrift and I’m not a huge fan of the contaminated clothes being mixed in with other clothing.
I dont think we should shame others. I still dont want to find shien second hand. But i can just hopefully skip over it. My issue is im worried that it will just all be fast fashion.
Frog owner here! You can actually hold frogs without gloves, but with VERY washed hands without soap. It can be safe but you can’t hold them for more than a minute
do you mind explaining how you would get "VERY washed" hands without soap? like, would you use something else or just water?
@@dq8431 so what I mean is that you wash your hands very hard all around with just water and a scrubbing brush that is clean, and you can only hold them while your hands are wet and not dry or hot and sweaty
@@Chickennugget523 that makes a lot of sense thank you!
Yea, but she played with her acrylic nails on the frog, and simply uses her frogs for videos. She even let one of her frogs try to eat the other frog😰 they are cannibalistic, so... yeah, shes a Great animal friend...
@@ToweTiih i don't think they are defending her, just clarifying proper frog handling.
As an ol skool metalhead (just turned 57 a few days ago), I honestly HATE gatekeeping. The 70-80's gave birth to metal. It's not what yo wear, your hair, or what genre or subgenra we didn't care about. Did you head bang? Yes? Welcome to the brotherhood my dude.
No joke, that's how me and my crowd were anyway.
RAIS YOUR HORNS!!!
yup. like lemmy said "rock n roll is for everyone"
YEAAAAH
At most she seems pretentious she's not nearly as bad as other influencers. She's more worth ignoring than hating if anything
fr..
That's what I've been thinking.
Nah if I know I can look better than you and you try to come at me in a bathroom while I’m minding my business just bc I didn’t wanna do too much that day, you’re gonna walk out with fewer teeth in your mouth. That’s gonna show her what punk means.
agreed. like there’s always gonna be people who support unethical brands and are losers lol. just ignore her edit: POSER not loser. and i say poser cause she promotes anti punk behaviour while making money off it
Didn’t she abuse her frogs?
From what I’ve learned about this situation in a short time is it comes down to fake punks on social media are pissed at another fake punk for not being a cookie cutter tiktok “punk”. None of these people on tiktok in their punk costumes are real punks they are cosplayers. Actual punks wouldn’t be policing social media all day and night like cops.
Real punks can still be mad/grossed out that the culture has been bastardized 😭
@@TitanHolefish i dont care about whats going on online when my local scene is pretty cool man
i mean imo( i am not punk im more goth/metalhead/general alt ) i feel like being a poser is not really abad thing . i mean if they were doing bad shit then they are bad but just being a poser ain't a crime . the aesthetic is cute and appealing if they wanna play dress up go right ahead
basically it’s cause she uses “punk” to like make money. which is the opposite of punk. and promoting unethical brands and consumerism which is NOT very punk
my thing is, i hate how most of the people who label themselves as "punk" nowadays are nowhere near actually punk. punk in itself is not just an aesthetic, yet people use it as one and that's what pisses people off. if you want to dress in a punk-esque fashion, then go ahead. its fine. just dont label yourself as punk if you're actually the living definition of consumerism. there is a difference between being punk and dressing in the style.
(is that the right word?? sorry i have trouble with that stuff :[ )
Yes you explained that perfectly
Yes it's absolutely true
*THIS* nothing punk about a uniform- everyone is doing it look :P if she just used 'Alt' or "alt baddie" people wouldn't care
You realize the majority of what you consider punk only exists because of fashion designers managing the sex pistols.
Punk has always been an artificial genre created by the industry to piss of your parents.
When I saw "frog murderer", I was expecting something like what my dad bragged about to me once where he cut a live frog in half with scissors like it was normal. THAT is frog murder. People need to chill and not just assume so much.
I'm just confused why she's the only one getting hate. Majority of tiktokers who have frogs handle them in that way, like it was very normal to see people do that at that time. (I say at the time bc there was a time on the Internet where frogs were big on TikTok. And honestly that's iconic, I love frogs) Not saying that means it's okay, it just means that its very easy to get misinformed.
Wth 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Ngl he needs to be sectioned.
@@fallenbeeyou say that like the cute animal video industry isn't rotten from the inside out
Your dad has a body buried in the backyard lmao
Thank god we weren't doing social media when I was a teen. The alternative crowd back then, which btw the term alt wasn't a thing yet(we were all just a bunch of "freaks" with some punks and goths sprinkled in there), wasn't so stupidly stringent about who is what and the criticism was nowhere near as bad as is it now. It's absolutely crazy to watch tt freak out over really liytle things.
I get some of the arguments being brought forward however its being used to gatekeep and prop up elitist attitudes.
I’m 14 and I haven’t fell into this shit.
So it’s not even social media it’s just people
Ikr, like so much for standing against society. I wish they'd stop gatekeepers bc baby bats and emos obviously need to explore before they sit comfortably in the group, just be happy with who you are
@@PlxsteredH34rt social media has most definitely made it worse but I get it, it is just people. Glad you haven't fell down that hole
The only people who complain about gatekeeping are the same people who should be kept out
@@Mike_Oxlong07 or maybe just be accepting of new people, and the fact that you can like more than one genre, gatekeeping is stupid and just a petty way to feel better about yourself.
Ok thats chronically online 😭 "exploiting the frogs for views" it's ok to film your pets haha funny moments, the only thing that is wrong is if she was purposely harming them for views or rage baiting the frogs for views 💀
Exactly the girl in the video gave me "erm actually" vibes like gurl stfu...
You know what's actually chronically online? Putting frogs on dirty surfaces that harms them just to make a tiktok and then arguing in the comments that you're smarter than literal biology. She started using gloves after people didn't let that slip. Mainly for peace and not for the good of the animal. Still put them in places they shouldn't be tho. Because she doesn't care about them, just the views they bring. Wow "chronically online" seems more like you. Defending a random ignorant person for funzies. With no actual arguments too. Lmao.
This is why I don't consider myself part of any kind of (sub)culture/group. I'm not goth, I'm not punk, I'm not alt. I like what I like and I wear what I want to wear. People will ALWAYS have something to say and it's never good enough. People are so quick to judge without knowing the full picture so I just don't care about any of it.
thats right you arent goth or punk or alt. dressing in all black isnt equal 2 listening 2 the music & being apart of those subcultures lol.
@@Kash-eb7rjomg wow youre so cool for gatekeeping music and clothes!! She literally just said she isnt. Relax, dude. Youre not better than anyone because you wear a black hoodie and watch goth/alt youtube creators.
@kash-en7rj why do men insist on yapping about things nobody even saiddgdh stop assuming shit
@@oliviahyerobrine fr like putting words in someones mouth so they can have something to bitch about
@@Kash-eb7rj profile picture checks out how does it feel to have a personality aesthetic?
Punks since the beginning of the subculture made their own clothes. They ripped up shirts jeans jackets pinned them painted them scuffed them messed them up. Shoes were well worn and well loved. Makeup was messy and ugly. Pink jackets were DIYed and were supposed to be unique to you. If the charity shops are too expensive for you or your a minor, do it yourself!! That’s literally the point!!!! Rifle through your family members closet, repurpose what you already have. There are so many other options than shopping with shein.
We really wore ugly, harsh makeup! Huge wings and garish colors. Smeared lipstick, etc. Nowadays, I think a lot of us were trying to keep away douche bag guys with this unintentionally, I think.
I used to pin my own leather jacket, pants and bags. Loved it❤
@@kimberlyvespathis comment was actually fucking incoherant 😂
@@Tores444 I was agreeing with the first comment that our makeup was not “pretty”. The eyeliner was in a huge “wing” on the outside of the eye and inside towards the nose and sometimes down the nose. We made our own clothing from thrift stores and the family closet. Ripped and put back together with safety pins.🧷 I was also saying that maybe the “ugly makeup”, as I put it, was to scare away the potentially creepy guys from back in the day. It worked, mostly.
Is that clearer for you to understand?
That's still your Hot Topic punk of the 90's
I've been a Metalhead and Goth for 16 years and I've been a Pokémon for 21 years, I love the Piplup plush.
Edit: I meant Pokémon fan for 21 years. If I was a Pokémon I'd be Dialga and or Charizard X.. also I love Goth Rock, Deathrock and Darkwave too and some classical music.
Charizard X is one of the coolest designs in the series tbh, super excited for the inevitable updated model in ZA :D
@@lavenderlaceration Same! wish we knew the release date..
@@thelastdaybreathinginetern1385 honestly I'm glad they didn't give a set one, as excited as I am. If they had a set release date they might end up rushing and making a bad product
@@lavenderlaceration Possibly yes, lol..
Omg its an irl pokemon
I think people are just mad at her for saying she’s punk while she buys her clothing from unethical fast fashion brands such as shien/romwe. The point of being punk is DIY. I think people should be talking about that aspect of her and also the fact that she was rude to a fellow alternative person! There was a video on TikTok of a woman who met with Caroline and Caroline was just rude to her for wearing a shirt advertising “The Church” which is a long time running goth club.
If you're talking about the club in Denver, what a throwback. That was my home away from home back when I was a goofy little mushroom-infused raver. 😂
Was a cool, kitschy little hangout though. The rooftop VIP section was ridiculously easy to sneak into, and had a great view.
or how she’s just rude to other alternative people in general after switching her style around 2021 and that’s why people are so critical of her in the first place.
oh girl i LOVE this take, we seriously need more people who are in the middle, don't choose a side and just talk about the facts. Everyone feels like they have to choose a side and it's soooo toxic. I love this. I've never seen you and I subscribed to you immediately after watching this video lol
Thank you so much! I was pretty worried putting it out their bc everyone is so cut throat and I think it’s pretty unnecessary, like we can all be chill 😌
Goth, punk and metal is a music based subculture. So if you listen to the music then congrats you are punk, goth or metalhead. I feel really bad for baby bats who have to grow up with social media the way it is nowadays. I mean we had MySpace but I was never called a poser online. Or see a TikTok where someone says “you can’t be goth if you don’t shop at killstar.” I think when influencer like the aesthetic of alternative with out the music and trying to tell younger ppl what they are or aren’t than gate keeping is necessary but done respectfully. Also I do think there is Misogyny going on as well. I think the major hate is caused by her allegedly conservative views.
Punk is more of an ideology rather than about music. Metal is music based. Goth is more about literature
Oh good heavens... not... conservative views! 😱
@@Deletiriumconsidering these subcultures were built on bucking AGAINST conservative principles in both aesthetics and ideology… yeah, conservatives have no place in any of these scenes.
yeah considering punk is largely based on leftist political ideology
@@Deletiriumthey're pretty terrifying arent they
8:41 - counter point: this is an argument I see all the time. The whole point of punk in the alt scene is being DIY. Learn a skill!! rip and tear your own clothes!! Make the items you want. That's more ethical and cheaper than buying from reputable brands. And when you are able to, buy from those brands!! There is literally no good reason to spend money on fast fashion. We're better than that. This isn't gatekeeping, it's holding folks accountable.
Okay but in order to even have clothes to rip and tear up, we're gonna have to get them from somewhere. With prices getting higher and higher in thrift stores, fast fashion is the most affordable option for most people. You're speaking from a place of privilege if you can be picky about where you get your clothes because not everyone has that option. You're right that it's not gatekeeping, but it's also not holding people accountable, it's actually not understanding or caring about other people's financial situations.
@@Maglors_grief ok but Caroline can do all that DIY stuff bc she is privileged herself,i'm lower middle class and i get what you're saying but this doesn't apply to her.
agree DIY has always been a huge part of goth and punk make your own, make it you it's not gatekeeping to correct
Yo if you will not wear your shein clothes anymore, bring them to goodwill. As a regular degular ass poor person, I can’t really be choosy about which brands are super duper fun and ethical. I have to go with what’s cute & cheap- that’s it. Those with the ability to simply pay the $60 for a cute outfit can continue to do so & frankly until it’s common place to just spend $60 on a piece of clothes all Willy nilly, then you can shit on me for wearing unethical clothes. It’s really picky & choosy to me lmfao, when y’all happily have iPhones using batteries mined using child slavery but shit on randoms for wearing shein as if it isn’t the same thing. Hypocrisy is fucking insane to me, how the fuck is fast fashion & worker exploitation in one area so much more important than in others?
At a certain point it’s performative. You don’t genuinely care, you just don’t want teenagers to shit on you online. Nobody would dog someone irl for wearing shein unless they were a rich stuck up piece of shit, in which case, most people would say “what the fuck is wrong with you?” because adults don’t call adults out for their choices in necessities.
It's all a bunch of high school bullshit. Just wear what you enjoy and like. It's nearly impossible to find something that isn't tied to some unethical action if you go down the rabbit hole.
@@RansomTRabbitright.
Even big brands are known for exploring people from poor countries and are known for being unethical yet people still buy them, Chanel, Adidas, Gucci and so go on are tested on animals for example yet nobody cares.
At this point people should know that the clothes industry is unethical in general.
@@ssfghjgghhgrdcbbnmjgddxcggg agreed
@@RansomTRabbit Exactly. I found out the other day that the Always brand tests on animals - if we cancelled every youtuber/tiktoker that wore Always pads and/or tampons, we'd end up cancelling a good 50% of women online.
So just doing a google search on her turns out a lot more reasons for the hate than you give. Like a lot more.
The frog thing seems to have been a bigger deal than you imply. She also apparently bullied a minor on the internet when she was like 19 or 20.
Having lived in the area she's from, can confirm stories of her being a fuckin asshole. Which isnt a crime.
Yea, she basically let one of her frogs try to eat the other one and just laughed and let it keep going. Frogs are cannibalistic. She dragged its arms with her false Acrylic nails back and forth, almost tearing them off 😰
She bullies anyone who says she's goth instead of alt. She's insecure as fuck about being labled properly. Literally the opposite of punk
Don’t you love how the communities based around accepting everyone for who they are so they have a community that allows them to express themselves how they want, have now started gatekeeping the community from people they believe don’t 1000% match the personality of the masses?
I agree with this but to be punk you have to have the politics and Caroline dosen't
These communities are not based solely on acceptance tho. Yes acceptance is up there in their values, but there are more important things.
You either protect the culture from certain things/people, or you let it fall apart. Yes gatekeepers are annoying, but without them setting boundaries the culture would be assimilated and just become a bunch of people listening to music with no community around it.
it's wild how people will do literally anything to find reasons to hate on women. i watched this twenty minute video and didn't see ANY valid reason to hate her, all i saw was that she's a person like all of us and makes mistakes and wants to do things that make her happy.
So a cursory search on Google comes up with that when she was 19 or 20 she bullied like a 14 year old online, apparently the frog thing was a lot worse than this video implies. Like people started politely telling her not to handle her frogs like that, she ignored them or argued. Then there was a bunch of other drama she's tied to.
And that's all the stuff just from the internet. I lived in Texas, she started working in the town I lived in so I got to hear all about her presence in that scene. It wasn't great.
yeah there really aren't any reasons to hate her, but there are a lot of valid reasons to be annoyed with her
I feel like people are so focused on hating her than actually caring about other problems, it’s like a distraction
Its all a distraction.
"Give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt"
That person's 'meeting her in the bathroom' situation is crazy. To quote them all Caroline said was 'you go to the church?' - which imo could be a completely innocent attempt at making conversation. I know very little about the whole situation but I think it's unfair to assume someone's intention with a question and turning it into a tirade against her.
Also to say 'she doesn't even go to the church' followed immediately by 'ive seen her there three times' is so silly and a complete contradiction. No hate to the person who made that video but it's just a perfect example of biased storytelling.
Yeah, I noticed that contradiction too lol. I do think she seems rude in person since multiple people have shared stories, but that "she's only been there 3 times" thing was a bit silly.
Honestly? She’s young and probably just doesn’t know a super lot about the scene she’s in. Apart from the kinda cringy music, she’s fine.
Nobody is really punk anymore. It's become the norm. It's all just fashion and attention grabs anymore
i thought frog killer was a band name
Dude, thank god social media wasnt a thing when I was younger. I saw the Hex girls from scooby doo and one (1) goth girl at my high school and suddenly decided to make it my whole personnality for 4 years. Couldnt change my musical taste tho, so I looked goth, but listenned to pussycat doll, madonna and that one 'airplaine in the night sky' song.
Also, now its years later and I realise that my obsession had less to do with the style of those people and more with the fact that I was a baby gay in denial
I was the weird goth kid but also a jock so wrap that around your head 😅😂. I did track, volleyball, basketball and hockey all while being the weird goth kid. Though I will say I had it better then most I didn't get picked on like the others because I had my teammates to back me up 😂 that along with the shot putt team training weights with the football players I think headed some warnings. Point is just because you don't fit into the cookie cutter mold doesn't mean your a poser. I've been in the goth and metal community since 13. Gatekeeping is lame.
This comment is SO real lol
Airplanes! That’s such a good song
Wait really ? I live in Europe and thrifting here is very very inexpensive. Personally I only buy a couple of items when I go thrifting bc overconsumption when thrifting is definitely a thing but usually it’s like 5-10 euros for tops and a little more for bottoms but nothing insane!
Here where i live i can find for 1 euro or maybe 2 lol
@Samkainstageh am besten zu Flohmärkten 🙏
In Portugal there's no thriftings stores! Only vintage and the clothes are more expensive than buy new ones
@@ritamoniz413 that's so interesting to hear. I'm from Serbia and we have 'specialized' thrift stores that carry second hand clothing from Spain and Portugal.
@@TheMTG666 I believe! But we don't have it here! So, if we what something alternative we have to buy new 🤷
We need to call out posers like we use too back in the day
We can’t jump people anymore :/
“Poser” is such a childish word lol. I was called a poser by my bully in the EIGHTH grade.
You should never bring that kind of bullying back. When i wanted to be friends with metalheads,they called me a poser for not knowing the whole discography of whatever band they pulled out of their ass. The standards were impossible to meet just to be accepted in the community. I was called a poser also because i was a female so i'd have older men come at me for no reason at all, and just plain bully me, on whatever i did. Like, imagine already not being accepted by the society, and then not even by the people who like the same things as you do.
@@Cig_ratshut up poser lmao
The only people who complain about gatekeeping are the reason we need the gates @@balrogmorgoth2360
One of my favorite skirts comes from Shien (bought it at the thrift doctored it up a bit) now I wear it when it is warm enough!
LOL how I feel about Tx2 her friend and I feel the same too about Caroline. I used to look at Punk and Goth TikTok and Instagram, but when MGK and Tx2 and others got way too repetitive and sharing thee same Skit, over and over again... I just unaided the Emo Punk Posers. I grew up 1989-2008 to being a teen in the '08 and well to this day, I used to like Green Day, Slipknot MCR and such.. but I grew up in the 90's with Bauhaus on , the Pixies on my old CD's and stuff... I feel like I got more Punk and Gothic Alt Rock in my upbringing than most Emo 30's have... So when I hear of Caroline, tx2 MgK I just keep scrolling and don't elfing care. Lol why? I atl least have more punk rock integrity in my veins. LOL wow kids are weird on TikTok and IG and sites today. Keep it up Moo! Love the Channel!
Ngl I really wanna get into slipknot
@@PlxsteredH34rt the easiest way to get into it is to probably listen to vermillion pt 2, (I think pt 1 is better, but personal preference) then work your way down, my favorite is probably Custer, killpop, Spit it Out, Eyeless, and (sic). Their popular music is a great way to get started too, remember that everyone is welcome as long as they're respectful ❤
@@arij8704 thanks cause it’s hard to choose out of many songs I’ll check them out!
@@PlxsteredH34rt it's all good, it's always hard to find a good starting point to new things, sometimes diving in is the best way to do it though and if you like softer songs (like Vermillion pt 2) try Corey's other band Stone Sour (their most popular is looking glass)
@@arij8704 Custer was the one if I’m fairly honest I found first which made me want to get into their music. Definitely my favourite from them for the time being
I’m not a fan of hers but I think people are just hating for something to do. Unfortunately, there are people out there with personalities that grate against others and it results in what we see now. The frog thing got fixed, even if it wasn’t fixed as quickly as people wanted, and she doesn’t do the whole Vanellope/Ralph thing anymore. She even cringes at that point in her life. People change as they grow older and some (like myself) enter their alt lifestyle after their teen years for various reasons. Doesn’t make them a “poser.” Social media has been the worst thing for society because people use it as a means to base whether someone is a good person or not simply by what they posted 10 years ago. Apparently, there’s no such thing as learning and growing as a person to the masses of the internet. Unless she’s committing real crimes, hurting real people, and killing animals outright leave her alone. Don’t like her? Just scroll past, no need to put effort into hating someone who isn’t aware of your existence anyways…
I hate her bc she made an O.F. and charged like $25 for totally normal cosplay pictures (nothing wrong with that, heres where the issue comes in) and wrote in the bio that no one should be complaining about the price or the content because shes "not just some random girl on the internet", shes her. As if shes... not just some random girl from the internet??? and shaming swers is not punk
You hate her because she values herself highly and you wouldn‘t want to pay that much because „she‘s just random Girl in the internet.“? Wow….
@@pinkimietz3243 valuing yourself highly is wonderful. If you have to put others down in order to do so, that’s rotten! Hope this helps ♥️
People talk about shein all the time if there anything affordable
And I’m sure id thrift but guess what IM IN THE UK there’s only charity shops as the equivalent and they aren’t even good stuff unlike thrifts
the closest stores of salt clothing is like a hour away I’m a minor
are you kidding me?? as if you didnt get the best second hand stuff in the uk please
@Samkainsta people have forgotten that most alternative subcultures didn't have affordable ready-made clothes back in their heyday either. people would buy the less than ideal grandma clothing from charity shops and then modify them - re-dying, restructuring the whole garment, covering it in patches or decorations to make it look better.
@@inesaldazabalruiz2793 Do you know exactly where they live? The demographics in their area?
You don't just see one person make a video on TikTok and create a blanket statement like that. That's just plain ignorant.
@@steamvyrus6249 Not everyone goes thrifting to have to chop and screw garments. Not everyone has the ability or time to do that, either
@@DylonsBBGorl Of course if you don't have time that's perfectly understandable, and if something is preventing you from being able to learn these skills that's also understandable. But if you are able to learn it, the ability to modify clothing is really useful and generally the whole foundation of what most alternative subcultures fashion developed from.
Can we just stop calling all of this emo/goth revival crap punk?
I keep seeing all this stuff about Caroline all over youtube and social media where people are dragging her or saying she's x, y or z and it's honestly just kind of annoying at this point. She's not worth viciously cancelling or something, especially when there's far bigger fish doing far worse like ImAllexx that I've seen way less in my feed about. It's so annoying when everyone online is just piggybacking trying to milk the "drama" with Caroline instead of talking about way more important things than some apparently fake punk artist.
Honestly I don't feel like Caroline has done anything wrong. She has never called herself punk ( to my knowledge ). She made a sincere apology without begging for forgiveness and she has actually taken accountability. So what's the problem? People can make whatever music they want about whatever they want. They can cover whatever song they want
I can make a cover of 7 rings even though I've never liked nor listened to Ariana Grande. Caroline can make a cover of a song regardless of how "punk" she is. Its a cover. Its not copying the song. She has openly stated it's a cover, she didn't try to pretend like she has written it.
Personally, I like Cherry Bomb, both the original and Caroline's version. They're different but both fun to listen to.
If people don't like her music that's ok, but they don't have to come over on the internet and say stuff to get her cancelled when she's not done much wrong.
This whole video was basically about "nothing" ( let me explain ) as there's no serious things to cover. She didn't do anything actually harmful.
Maybe she has bought some shein clothes but so did 90% of people complaining about her lets be honest come on.
I take fast fashion as veganism, by not buying from shein you will not change anything because most people will still buy from it, same with vegans, you will not change anything by not eating that steak. The cow is already dead.
Conclusion? Caroline Carr is great, she's a good singer, a good influencer and there's nothing to go off of on her
You should watch the videos of people who have met her in person. She’s not a nice person, she’s the exact opposite of how she shows herself in videos. A nasty elitist who thinks they’re better than others.
Social media is an easy way to seem concerned or ethical without any work. Why would you go outside and try to make a difference when you can scream at someone for buying clothes? It’s an easy way to gain social brownie points
14:54 oh shit that me. Good video‼️🗣
for the thrifting chapter thank you for saying bc my mom doesn't have much money on her all the time but she does it's either ross or shein, and i'm really scared to be a young person who love alt fashion and music while wearing shein bc i don't have enough from my job but i glad you said in the same way i would say it too others.
again thank you for being my guide in the alt world!!! ♥
As a poor person i proudly shop on every dropshipping site
I truly don't know what my label was in high school nor in the present time(I'm 31!), but that's because I listen to more than just one genre, dress in bright ass clothes, wear fishnets on my arms, etc. I listen to kpop, for goodness sake! There's just a lot of music genres that I absolutely love and adore, so I wouldn't exactly label myself as 'goth'. I'd say I'm more whatever the fuck I want to dress as, represent myself as, listen to, etc.
Also, supporting a brand and just wearing the clothes are two different things. You can wear the clothes without supporting whatever happens with said brand.
I don't know who she is, I'm too old for for TikTok lol, but, if she came up to me questioning my 'alt credentials' I wouldn't laugh in her face. My teen years started in 1999, I've been through the trenches of being "Goth" when it was hated.
My teen years were in the 80's. I listened to Specimen and Gene Loves Jezebel, wore skull buckle pikes and a bunch of black eyeliner to high school. I not only lived through the Reagan years I also had to live through all of the Marilyn Manson neo-goth crap of the late 90's/early 2000's.
You have an actual adult non chronically online take on this whole thing. I really appreciate you understanding that this stuff really isn’t something to waste all your energy on. I have no opinion on Caroline either, i just don’t care. She was willing to correct her behavior on what really caused harm, which was how she handled her frogs. The rest of this is truly meaningless. I grew up more “alternatively” and would still say I’m emo adjacent nine years later, but I think wasting energy on who’s a poser and who isn’t is such a meaningless internet thing to participate in. Subscribed for your level headed take that wasn’t just you chastising this person for being human. Because come on, we all suck in some ways 😭 having an online platform doesn’t change that. We need to stop holding people to perfect standards, and I’m not even defending Caroline, I just think she’s getting attacked relentlessly and it’s kind of absurd
Being uneducated about an exotic pet you own is not "fair enough" why are you purchasing exotic pets you didnt even bother to learn how to care for?
“I don’t live in this girl’s bedroom closet!” Is exactly what someone who DOES live in her closet would say.
Sounds like simp talk there buddy
i really want to experience thrifting in london but the charity shops arent as good as some of the things i see online in america :(
I was one of the people who called her out on the frog thing. U see most people actually were being nice about it when they first told her. However she didnt listen for like months, and kept posting video's of the frogs without gloves and with very sharp nails. She ignored everything that people were saying, So eventually people started hating. Due to the hate she decided to do it. You have to compare frog skin to your arm without any skin only flesh. You wouldn't let someone's bare hands and sharp nails come close to you? It would be extremely sensitive and even painful if the hands are dry (its like sandpaper for frogs). She can make mistakes, yes she is human. But ignoring something like this as a plublic figure is gonna make you look bad. The frog murdering thing was because her frogs dissapeared for a while, and when they eventually came back on the internet, people were convinced they weren't the same frogs due to color and size. However i'm not sure if this is true. I dont like her because she knew what she was doing at some point and i think that is not okay when it comes to animals no matter what size. You can clearly see her hands are bone dry, people who handle frogs correctly without gloves have very wet and even dirt covered hands.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate, yes she presents a "punk" image but she herself has said that she doesn't identify as such. So like people need to wind their neck in imo. I mean, yeah, call her out for supporting a terrible brand but don't come for someone not being 'punk enough' when they don't identify as one to begin with. 😂
I feel like influencer gets thrown around too loosely because a musician who influences their audience through their music are influencers but everyone with a following are being called an influencer to the point it’s lost all meaning!
I feel evert part of that, trying to make friends in the punk/alt community. I'm not a big make up wearer but my hole wardrobe is 93% black and has been since i was a kid over 10 years ago now, but because I don't do some heavy dark makeup or any makeup everytime I go out I'm apparently some kind of lazy wannabe to some people in the scene????
Punk girlie here, and I subscribed so fast, I wish I was your friend you seem so cool and I agree with everything you said! ❤🤘
This is such a nothing burger. My god.
The thing with thrifting is that not everybody can access it. I live in a small island, there is only one thrift shop and on Sundays there is a huge second hand market in some places of the island. The thing is, here thrifting is expensive, size exclusive and the clothes tend to be really not nice at all, Vinted does not ship here and shopping from Depop gets really expensive with the shipping costs, and is also not really size inclusive, I actually purchased some clothes of my size and some were too big, some were too small. Sometimes fast fashion IS the only solution of some of us, Thrifting shouldn´t be the ONLY solution for people.
this is the first video i have seen of yours and i ddin't even know the girl you were talking about 🤣 but i stuck around and subscribed because you seem so lovely !!!! i enjoyed the video !! x
This all seems like silly fake drama made by people who spend far too much time online. The only real issue imo would be shein. Past that, people need to genuinely and desperately touch grass if those are the things they think are world stopping issues.
Ive been called a hardcore kid in 2015 for having a funeral for a friend hoodie and then couple months later was wearing dickies, a.pop punk band shirt and metioned i liked the story so far and i took that with badges of honour hahaha
everywhere i look it says it is not okay to hold frogs with your bare hands and if she sanitized/washed everything it still is bad as it is chemicals and water wouldnt get the oils on your hands off so there is no excuse to her handling her frogs without gloves. And handling them in the way she did can stress the frogs too.
I’ve seen more punk in a chips ahoy commercial
All this drama makes me feel like you cant just exist in the alt community, you have to perform. You have to be perfect. I just want to be myself and its starting to sound like that is not allowed in the alt community.
I feel this, it alway happens especially when the popularity in 'alt' comes up on social! it sucks! I hope you can still find a way to be yourself and happy, anyone with something negative to say should really just be focusing on themselves
The lady making the video about how Caroline was allegedly rude to her just seemed so spiteful... like "she doesn't even go to the church, I've seen her there like 3 times" so that means she does go there? Just not often? And then saying "atleast participate in your subculture" just because you can't go to fancy goth clubs doesn't mean your not goth!!! It sucks if she was rude, but idk man
Sorry to admit this Ms. Moo, but I clicked on the video bc ur so pretty. But stayed and then subbed bc I like listening to what you have to say, and how you say it with your little quirks and whatnot.
i can count on at least to hands how many accounts i've blocked in on tiktok for crucifying her like she beheaded a bunch of babies. unfortunately, i think a lot of the online community finds comradery in bashing on the same people
I can definitely see how promoting places like Shein or Temu, etc, is a bad look for content creators, who are people able to shop ethically & I agree with that... The only thing I'm not for is shaming people who need to shop at these places because they definitely cannot afford the higher prices on items for their crafts/clothes/jewelry... (You did NOT do this, to be clear, I'm just making this point as I have seen people do that a lot...) I am disabled & know that my hobbies would not be possible if it weren't for places like these!! So I can totally see that your initial intention of making content for us, who can't afford to go all-out for concerts/festivals is a really good aim to have!! But yeah, I can also see how endorsing them as a content creator is a baaaaad look... Thank you for the video!!! I didn't know who she is, but your video was very informative!!! 🖤🖤🖤
I'm in my 30s, living through the 90s grunge and emo era, and I feel lost because I wasn't allowed to be who I wanted to in my teens and having no money but dye and sewing skills... I'm sad to see she's so hated on now.
She didn't seem like a "poser" but her music didn't match her look most times, but it's hard to recreate goth music from the 80s and 90s without forcing. And it felt more pop listening to what she created.
The punk scene has always been either super open minded and non judgemental, all the way to being the most judgemental. There were always those people who wanted to make cliques, and then insult what other people wore. I remember this group of girls all decked out in their finest Hot Topic making fun of me outside of a show because I was wearing these beat up pleather pants and a shirt my friend made for me with Happy Noodle Boy. Apparently to them I was the poser, but to me they were and on top they were mean so not people I wanted to be around anyway.
How I've always seen it, if you like the music you belong. The politics part can stay with the Crass crowd, I just wanted to have fun and live a meaningful life. Unfortunately the punk scene attracts many highly narcissistic people.
I'm a metal head but you would never know lol I have an outdoorsy clothing aesthetic and don't dress alternative unless i'm going to a show, so I appreciate what you said!
I saw your piplup in the back and just wanted to say i have one too! He is so cuuuuute!!!
Regarding behavior like the reported restroom rudeness, whether a punk or a poser, posturing is the practice of petty, pesky, puny pests, and pride is a prelude played prior to the plummet to pavement.
8:44 I’m not able to actually get cool clothing because one, I can’t afford it and two, my parents wouldn’t let me wear it :(
I follow her, she does have a really cute aesthetic. I did not know she made music (I’m a fake fan lol).
As far as her cover of Cherry Bomb… I think the point of covers is to add something to it. Like what Bad Wolves did with Zombie, or what Rain Paris does. I’m not saying either is a masterpiece but they added elements to cater to a larger audience.
Essentially without changing any part of the song she’s just singing Karaoke. Nothing wrong with that but I’d rather give my listen to the original creator at that point.
I have a sneaky suspicion she uses AI to write her songs.. 😬 I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt but the cards are falling 😑
do you have a spotty playlist? I wanna hear what u're listening to!!!
Sure do! Here’s my lil profile 🫶🏻 open.spotify.com/user/31tezv64ljehpzmsxlvamxcnumva?si=ifXAesf1SR6fl1HJov2fkQ
@@MooSmith ahh!! thank you!
Theres a frog hanging out in my front yard, where my air conditioner drips water. Its been there for awhile now, live behind my flower bush. Idk what to do with it. I just make sure its not in the way when i mow the lawn
4:51 I have that same plush as in the background and you made a very good choice buying it (it's extremely comfortable)
I feel like there was such a surge during lockdown of alternative/experimental fashion - which is amazing to see such appreciation to sub-cultures that were given a bad name. But, it has created negative spaces surrounded by gatekeeping and just straight up negativity.
I'm also listening to the new Wage War album, along with Knocked Loose's new album. what a time to be alive!
I can confirm from the other side of the world that not only they are creating more "luxury" thrift shops where u basically pay for those things as if they were new but also old thriftshops up their prices.
This reeks of r/gatekeeper subreddit
I just got to say this, I fucking love your intro oml 🖤
Personally I can see where people criticize but I do enjoy her music and I think most of it is just people hating cause they don’t like her music
I think finding a baby bat in your area and giving them all your old clothes away would be better than to donate to a thrift shop because they tend to always overprice items ,even shein
I'm like you. I don't like it, I said "In my opinion, that is terrible." And I scrolled on. I do not want her on my fyp! Now... I do love the original but I've also had a big crush on Joan Jett for like... Forever. Meh. People need to stop gatekeeping. Like what you like. Be your weird lil self baby!!! ❤❤
Betting I can outnerd you in a music conversation...
This is a really fair look into the whole situation, I admire you for that. Granted she seems quite immature and rude if the interactions people are describing with her in person are true. But I also don't think her behavior warrants the hate train I've seen. And a lot of arguments people are bringing up against her (frog abuse, her being a "poser") I really don't feel are worth the time people are taking to talk about it. Personally. Like, the background to Cherry Bomb and punk... Sure that stuff is important, but I don't think it was a fair critique. She presumably loved the song and wanted to cover it. Great. Let people have fun and make art. I completely understand being part of a subculture and being angry at seeing it watered down to nothing but aesthetics. As a goth, the misinformation is rampant. At the end of the day though, I don't see her promoting anything harmful. She's just expressing herself. As you said, people need to learn to scroll. GRANTED, I am not familiar with her at all. So there could be more to her and the things she does... but from what I've seen in a few videos now, I don't really understand the hate.
i kinda hate it when people complain about other people supporting places like shein. Like yeah shein is bad, but sometimes it's all we can fucking afford. you think I want to buy shitty clothes from temu and shein? No, I fucking don't. But I can't fucking afford regular clothes because prices are so bad
I do like how she did learn and start handling her frogs better, and I also like how she stopped ordering fast fashion for the most part. And honestly, I know some people would think her cover of cherry bomb is bad, but people should just accept the fact that it’s litterly a cover, and they don’t need to listen to it if they don’t want to. However I don’t like how she’s rude to some of her viewers.
I don't like her but in a scene that I don't care about her. I don't think she deserves any hate whatsoever. She learned from her mistake and fixed the frog situation. Fast fashion IS a problem, but come on who can look me in the eyes and tell me that they haven't indulged in fast fashion one way or another be so for real.
And chill with poser accusations you all look so silly trying to police how alternative other people are, it doesn't affect your life in the slitest
Learning her parents are rich suppar tracks for me in my brain. And her "excuse" of how she looked at 17 is kind of valid eh? I was trying to dress alt since i was 12 in 6th grade and made all my e-sonas goth since i was 7. I tried to wear black nail polish when i was like 5 lol. My senior pics were less alternative because my mom was paying for them and had to approve my clothes
I remember getting my red skinny jeans in was hard. Also my Edgar allen poe tshirt. Hard ins but i got them.
Looking back you can see a subdued punk baby. I have pictures with a hard hard and mudcaked boots in a white lace dress climbing a tree. Thats me. A juxtaposition.
I love the Goth and Punk aesthetic and some of the music as well. I'm terrified to dress as goth in public because I don't want people to cancel or crucify me for being a 'poser' when in reality I just find goth aesthetics to be beautiful and they make me feel beautiful.
woah i feel like ive just had a dmt trip or something trying to watch this wtf is happening??? my dejevu bumps are tingling hardcore, i dont know why. do i know you somehow ...? the fuck is going on in my brain right now? Lamb of Gods the shit for me when i think of metal right off the bat but also jackson rose and dal Av is cool anywho very bizzare experience i can't explain well. peace out mosh on 🤙
hey that’s me at 5:55 !!! insane !
🎉fellow metalhead given ya fallow we all need friends out here lol
she just seems like a try hard prep in goth clothes
Why are people getting mad that someone has an aesthetic and they don’t act a certain way
Caroline isn’t punk. She addressed it in an interview. Even if she was she is not a poser people have different aesthetics. People are allowed to change. She did not abuse her frogs at all, she simply took them out of their habitat to film videos, I understand that bacteria is bad for them. But they are still alive and doing well. She is taking good care of them. In my opinion Caroline has grew from her mistakes, look back in 2019, look at the people who ACTUALLY are animal abusers and got away with it. She’s a good person.
“Don’t ever call yourself punk. You’ll spend the rest of your life arguing about what it means.”
I probably don’t like her. I also don’t care what she does. I’ll just keep doing what I do. Would be interesting to compare these kinds of things to what happened with Beki Bondage back then.
My only thing is that people are hating her on her being sponsored by SHEIN while other creators who are sponsored by SHEIN,Etsy,ect and act like its a good thing and celebrate them. I get that SHEIN is unethical but people also need to realize that a lot of people can’t afford to buy $30 jeans and thrift stores are being over run by people who resell the items they get for 3x the price (might not be in your guys area but it’s happening to mine) but I just think it’s hypocritical
I remember when Ray William Johnson roasted her