Why don't (most) American Hikers use these Norwegian "Fishnet" Base Layers? (Brynje and Aclima)
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- Опубликовано: 11 дек 2023
- Why?:
Next-to-skin mesh base layer stays dry by transfering sweat vapor (before it turns to liquid sweat) to midlayer. The more conventional "closed knit" fabrics tend to wet through and then "wick" liquid sweat to the mid-layer.
The Basic Concept:
In cold weather, with a more snug mid-layer, the mesh "fabric gaps" trap warm air and moves sweat vapor to the mid-layer where it can dry next to the outside air. Vapor transfer vs moisture (liquid) wicking...
In warm weather, with a looser mid-layer the mesh "fabric gaps" allow air circulation to evaporate liquid sweat on the skin to cool the body.
The more popular "closed knit" design typically wets through and we then rely on this base layer to transfer liquid sweat through fabric to evaporate, which is less efficient. While AlphaDirect, Capilene Air, and some other knits/fabrics are similiar, none are functionally the same as mesh/fishnet.
Weights:
6.8 oz - Brynje Super Thermo Zip Polo Shirt with Inlay (Synthetic)
9.4 oz - Aclima WoolNet Original Polo (Wool)
Brynje USA created a 10% discount code for us to share with Hikers and an affiliate link to use if you want:
www.brynjeusa.com/ref/13/
10% Discount Code: AT24
Brynje USA distributes their products in the US.
Aclima is Europe-based and an order must be placed internationally. We found Varuste.net ships Aclima products quickly.
varuste.net/en/p47926/aclima-...
Links to other reviews and resources:
sectionhiker.com/brynje-wool-...
backpackinglight.com/brynje-t...
nymag.com/strategist/article/...
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
I had fishnet base layer in the late 1970's. But IIRC, the coarse netting chafed - especially on the shoulders under packs - so when polypro came out, I was glad to switch and still use. But the Brynje shirt in the video, with solid shoulders, might have solved the chafe problem by now. Always something new!
Thanks for sharing! We've found the Brynje shoulder padding super comfortable under pack straps and thankfully no chafing.
That is a great point about chafing. I wondered why I never heard of mesh inner layer before, until now in 2024. And I grew up wearing all kinds of outdoor winter clothing, so I am always reading/watching videos on what is the best material/methods. I ever had long johns that were made of a thin silk material. This was back in the early 1980s (I wore it as a base layer, when doing long distance running in very cold weather).
@JohnS-er7jh Similar situation here...just now discovering mesh after years of outdoor activities. So far our Brynje synthetic mesh have been working great during winter hikes. Happy to have found it and share the idea with other hikers
I used mesh bottom layers for skiing way back in the 70s. Always wondered why no one made it anymore.
Seems like fashion typically wins over function. But we did find 3 brands making mesh layers...Wiggy's, Brynje, and Aclima
The dog is actually a good cameraman.
Will check out the mesh; thanks for the information!
I was using those mesh layers in the 70s also; still have them. They did the job very well, but were made of cotton. Patagonia arrived in the early 80s and the polypro revolution was born--great one that transformed so much, but the mesh idea was a good one and should have been retained. Great to see it thriving again--will buy Brynje shortly and try it out.
Thanks for sharing! Many of the comments echo yours...mesh seems to have been forgotten but is still great
I've used it or a version of mesh like materials for years. Works great under a base layer of "wicking" material. You dry quickly and don't have that wet clammy feeling.
We've found the same. A bit surprised it's not more popular amongst US hikers....or maybe we've just never seen a hiker on the AT use mesh because it's under their mid-layer...
If this seems strange to anyone, remember that this is also how liners in swim shorts work.
Also the mesh liners in hiking pants with "built-in" underwear.
Brynje is indeed highly recommended (not so much experience with Aclima). They offer summer and winter net clothing, and both work great in warm/cold conditions. I typically wear my Brynje base layer (pants and shirt, which is quite expensive) in the summer for multi-day hikes as it dries so fast over night or during longer breaks, and doesn’t smell thah bad. And for cross-country skiing in the winter, where staying dry is even more important when you cool down. The only thing I regret is that I didn’t know about this gear during my 12 yrs in the German military. I guess I could’ve avoided quite a few colds :)
Thanks for your comment and feedback! It has been interesting reading the comments. It also sounds like you have validated Mesh as a base layer! We are hoping all this helps more hikers discover it's benefits. Danke!
Brilliant ! I discovered mesh decades ago but I found synthetic superior to wool or cotton and nudity even better, even in winter sports . ❤
Just discovered mesh wool base layer. Took 3 tries to get the correct size. And now it’s warmed up, so the cold weather test will have to wait.
Just getting back into hiking. Stunned that some type of mesh isn't a standard base layer today! Always used it in the 70s and 80s. Although it wasn't wool, the principle and effect were the same, and it worked extremely well.
Thanks for the comment, and we feel the same! Multiple people have commented that they used to use Mesh with great success. I've been suggesting to Brynje USA that they try to reach out to more American hikers...or any hikers! Hopefully the discount code they created will help some backpackers rediscover mesh!! Take care
Greetings from Norway. This piece of gear, including net pants (winter), is the "go to" when it it comes hiking up here. Wool is the thing, proven over and over through time.
Thanks for the comments from Norway! From what I've seen, Norwegians do not mess around when it comes to winter clothing and equipment, so your comment holds weight, Skol!
How does the wool mesh compare to synthetic?
@_kardus My observations...(on the Brynje Top and Pants). Synthetic is lighter, dries faster, less expensive, and easier to wash than the wool. The synthetic material has larger "gaps" in the mesh. The wool is a little stretchier than the synthetic. Neither caused any chaffing and both seem to resist odor. Hope this helps!
@@_kardus For winter hiking here in Norway some say "Synthetic on the move, wool in camp." That said, many winter hikers, including myself, use only different types of wool layers, both on the move and in camp. Wool dry up on the body and at the same time offers warmth.
@@palbal I am trying to put together a light system for indefinite travel year round with as few items as possible, probably minimal activity and not so much backpacking type stuff. I don't anticipate going below -10 often, but maybe high as +35-40. I was thinking of using some sort of mesh layer along with a thin 120gsm merino or merino-lyocell shirt, layered with a 200gsm merino fleece, and montbell 1000 down vest/rain shell. Figured I would give the wool mesh a shot since it may not be washed frequently. I don't have a lot of experience with synthetics but was wondering if I should swap the merino fleece for some modern thing like alpha direct or octa.
We used both the leggings and the top in the Norwegian Army. It's absolutely the best base layer by far.
Thanks for sharing! You are adding more evidence to the case for mesh for those that have not yet tried mesh! Did you prefer Wool or Synthetic? Skol
Great gear that we used around 50 years ago in New Zealand. Can't find any now .
Excellent piece of gear. Have been essential in both warm and cold service conditions.
I love my Acima clothes, especially the Merino baselayer shorts that have a windstopper built in, as my thighs were always freezing in winter
Great info! Thanks. Our Aclima top and pants have performed well so far
My granddad was wearing a mesh base layer (when it was still just called undershirt) in winter and I found it strange back then. But he obviously knew about the benefits. He was a navy veteran and walked (had to) through Norway (Narvik) 1940 ).
Thanks for sharing! It has been interesting seeing multiple comments from people who used to use mesh, or know someone who did. Stories about folks such as your granddad seem to show mesh has been tested over time but has been forgotten by many...
Take care
As a US backpacker I want to use this but this material is seldom seen here and can see how I would probably be viewed as some kind of 60 year-old weirdo with my white chest hair poking out of my black fishnet base shirt. Like a stripper pole is more familiar to me than a trekking pole! Not sure surviving is worth it! Lol 😂
Haha! I might try a tank top over it in warmer weather
Fish net is the real thing. In the 1970's I bought my fishnet from REI, they had the North American rights to Brynje. along came poly pro the new wonder fiber and REI stopped selling fishnet. It was just a year ago that I discovered Brynje and back wearing and they dealerships in the USA and Canada. . This past week I took three twenty five mile bike rides on the paved trail near my home. In all three rides the temperature was just above freezing 0C, 32F. On each ride I wore the same mid layer and wind shell. I wore the base layer the mid layer and the wind shell, with no moisture barrier. All three layers were untucked. The first ride was with fishnet base layer, the second with merino. The third with brand 32 degrees Cool . A very light weight poly pro with thousands of pin holes. The most comfortable ride was with the fish net. When I finished the ride the poly pro fish net was bone dry, the wool mid layer was slightly damp to the touch. The second day was the merino base layer. The merino was only slightly moist to the touch. The mid layer was slightly damp to the touch. The third day was the 32 degree poly pro. I was interested to see if the tiny hole would transport the moisture away from the base layer. When I finished the ride, the base layer was slightly damp but dried within seconds. of removing it. the wool mid layer was slightly damp to the touch. This was not planned as an experiment, it just happened to wear three different base layer and the temp was the same. As well as the route and the 10-12 mile wind. In none of the three variations of the base layering was there a significant difference in "Feels Like" I would rate the fishnet as my comfort favorite as well as the best transporter of moisture vapor.
The Fish net is worth the price, you will have them for years even if you wear them 365 days year. The poly pro will last forever, the cotton version is just as good but after years of everyday wear the armpits rot out. I The fishnet is very comfortable to sleep in. I only wore the bottoms when the temperature was minus 10 to 20 F. But it may be different for you.
Great feedback on your experience and ad-hoc testing with fishnet...thanks! It echoes our shorter-term experience, and is what I was hoping would be our longer-term experience. We're finding the mesh benefits you mention are only magnified when wearing the layers hiking for multiple days straight without being able to get indoors and dry off or warm up. We're also wearing them as camp/sleep clothes after wearing them all day since they are essentially dry and warm yet breathable. We are also playing around with what we put on top of the mesh while moving...windshirt, wool/synthetic zip-neck hoodie, pants/shorts, etc. It really feels like a magical fabric and design, and we're hoping we can help others out by spreading the word! Take care and happy new year to you
Canadians who were working hard in the cold wore mesh in the 50s, 60s and 70s that I know of. I still have skiing and bicycling mesh that I wore in the sixties and seventies. I remember being told a pack of mistruths about Goretex and after decades of miracle fabrics that didn't live up to their hype, people are rediscovering real things like wool and fishnet base layers. Misleading marketing killed fishnet in Canada. For people who work in real cold, (-40 and lower) the only serious clothing is caribou skin.
Very interesting. I tend to think it's probably worth listening to folks that work/play in artic conditions! Without being too conspiratorial, I also think marketing of the miracle materials has beat mesh/fishnet. Pretty sure most of us have had these materials in a jacket wet-out or boots get wet on the inside. The response to this video has been encouraging...seems it's helping spread the word on mesh a bit. Hopefully it improves some people's experience in the outdoors! Take care my friend
I just got the Wiggy's and I'm a fan of the performance but I don't like the fit and the lack of backpack straps inserts. I do love how much dryer my back is when rucking with it mesh baselayer though. Hopefully Brynje restocks soon though!
Thx for the feedback on the Wiggy's. Was wondering how they were. I'm hearing Brynje is restocking this week or next
@@WillowWalksTheAT I wish they had restock notifications.
@sldsnk3 Great point. I'll pass that along to them. I have found their customer service to be very responsive, so if interested maybe send them an email and you could get a personal notification...
every cyclist knows that a fishnet baselayer is key to feel dry. backpackers are a bit behind i think
Great info, thanks! What companies do cyclists use?
@@WillowWalksTheAT Castelli is good :)
@@magnesnor Thanks!
For Spring, Summer, and Fall wear in Colorado, some while motorcycle riding, which would be best, the synthetic mesh, or the wool mesh. I only want to spend the money once. Thanks.
I would go with the synthetic mesh. Lighter, dries faster, less expensive, and I've found it does not stink too bad after a couple days of sweating in it. If using it in summer, might consider the short-sleave one. Really depends on how warm/cold you get...and what 2nd layer you like to use. I've used everything from a tank top to a sun hoodie. Hope this helps!
I would say that it amounts to limited awareness. I bought the US made double layer tops for my 2024 thru hike, but the Norwegian version is significantly more expensive and probably more than what many people want to spend on gear that most of them have never heard of or found reviews of. My main issue with the US made stuff is that its not wool, and is more "slippery". It also lacks the wool shoulder sections the Norwegian stuff has, so my straps tend to slide around more.
We suspect the same reason. Also heard similiar feedback from those with the US Wiggy's version. Been very happy with both the wool and synthetic Brynje tops with shoulder padding. Brynje synthetic is less expensive and we found dries faster. Hearing they will be back in stock this week or next. Brynje USA has been real user friendly too. Good luck on you 2024 Thru...doing the AT?
@@WillowWalksTheAT Yes. Doing the AT in 2024
Not sure what the price issue is between Brynje and a Smartwool top. That, and the polypro Brynje version would probably apply to more seasons on the AT than the wool version.
Wiggy's makes his from nylon which tends to be more durable, but less comfortable. He probably wasn't thinking of a pack strap digging into your shoulders either.
Have a few pieces of Aclima wool net base layer. Can attest to their quality
That's great to hear. I did have the hem on my Aclima top come unstiched a bit, but not so much that it's unraveling. Have not had that problem with the Brynje. Thanks for sharing!
I will try to get one Byrne one day. @@WillowWalksTheAT
What material would y'all recommend for the fishnet; polypropylene or wool? Is there a major scent as well as insulation difference between the two? Thx.
I tend to think its personal preference. We've tried the wool and synthetic Brynje tops and bottoms and so far prefer the synthetic for long distance multi-day hikes. Primary reasons are it dries faster, is lighter, less expensive, and easier to wash when in town.
Have not had an issue with either fabric holding odor and both seem to insulate (and vent) just as well. The wool is a little stretchier and has a tighter weave (smaller holes). I think you can't go wrong with either material. Hope this helps!
@@WillowWalksTheAT great, thx for the reply. Will probably go with synthetic, since I heat up pretty easily once I get moving, even in the cold. I did order a pair of the rubber bottom socks to give them a try. Looking to do grandfather mtn , NC during next snow storm.... probably without the socks though.. Haha.
@cadcamfreak NIce. I heat up fast too. Found with the mesh that it's nice to have a 2nd layer that vents well. Meaning has a chest zip and sleaves that are easy to pull up...makes it work over a wide range of temps without having to stop and strip off (or add) layers.
Cool you're trying the sock shoes! I like them for camp shoes too. If I've got to walk around camp in snow or wet ground, they're nice to slip on instead of the wet trail shoes/boots. Good luck on your snow hike!
Question as a woman: what about the bra? I run and bike all the year through and I find that sport bras that have enough support get soaked and stay wet. I need one but don't like them getting wet. Any suggestion? Thx
Have not tried any of the Women's tops😀 but Brynje USA does have lady specific tops like this one: www.brynjeusa.com/product/lady-wool-sports-top/
Also, their customer service has been very responsive, and I'm sure would be happy to help you find a top that would work for you. Good luck!
Because it’s not available
Are you supposed to wear this tight or can you give it a little snuggy space between your skin and the base layer just like other t-shirts?
I'd say you want it snug but not tight, if that makes sense. Basically about the same fit as any other base layer. We wear the same size in a Brynje top as we do in other hiking shirts, there was no guess work for us regarding fit thankfully. Hope this helps
I've been picking up More Notice about FishNet Base layer
and I have found the the Cyclists have already Figured this Out and have Fish Net ..
Starting to notice that too
'Wiggy's' make a great affordable alternative to the pricier models.
Thanks for the comment! How do you like the Wiggy's?
I have a frugal friend that opted for the Wiggy's version, and it's working well so far. I tried to tell him that the Brynje equivalent is $64.95, and with the 10% Brynje discount (AT24) it's $59.45. That's just $9.45 more than the $50 Wiggy's. Maybe shipping changes the difference depending on where someone lives...
Here's the link to the Brynje equivalent to the Wiggy's Mesh top (if interested):
www.brynjeusa.com/product/unisex-super-thermo-long-sleeve-shirt/
Been using Wiggy's for years, no complaints. The price difference used to be much greater If I was going to do it today I would probably opt for the Brynje. I'm surprised more people don't know about Fishnet.
@@user-gc4kk2oj8q That's useful feedback on the Wiggy's, thanks. I'm also surprised it's not more popular in the US. Thought it was pretty cool for Berynje USA to offer a discount code to help get the word out. Take care
I prefer the Brynje over the Wiggy's. I've used both going on morning rucks and the Wiggys is hard to put on/take off (no stretch) and it fits a little funny over the body, whereas the Brynje is very comfortable to put on and take off and sits very close to the body. that said, Wiggy's lamilite socks are hands down the best next-to skin layer you can get, but you do have to secure it to the foot since it doesn't have any elastic to wrap around the foot (think christmas socking type of product)@@WillowWalksTheAT
How would this work under cotton in a dry heat?
I suspect very well since it would transfer sweat to the cotton outer layer and evaporate quickly in dry heat. Nothing against cotton, but curious...why cotton?
I'm trying a short sleave synthetic version in white for the summer under a sun hoodie. Wondering if it will feel better with the mesh layer underneath, or just the sun hoodie. Japanese company Finetrack also makes an interesting option in more of a mesh weave (less net-like). Will probably compare those hiking in the heat to see how they do. Good luck!
Link to Finetrack option:
www.finetrackglobal.com/en_US/shop_by_product/l1_elemental_layer/elemental-layer-short-sleeve-crew/FUM0422.html
Its a blue cotton long sleeved shirt, I just like the look of it
@rickycarrarini188 Right on, I'd go for it!
because it is expensive and the majority of USA hikers tend to go in warmer weather.
its expensive because it isnt popular
@@hypnogri5457 being popular does not mean it wont be expensive plenty of popular things are very expensive. only time being in demand drops price is if mass production actually drops the cost of production alot. most of these mesh base lasers are made from marino wool that is not cheap to start with due to all the labor involved in rearing the sheep and shearing, and processing. then to turn that wool into products. mass production for these would not drop the price all that much really unless they make versions out of cheaper materials.
look at leatherman they are popular but not at all cheap and are produced in large numbers, even on the used market they are not cheap. so popularity is not always a factor in price. not to mention lower price tends to also mean lower quality in most cases, not always but most of the time an exception would be Mora Knives.
where are the mesh socks?
www.brynjeusa.com/product/super-thermo-short-socks-with-mesh-lining/
Ah yes, the Trent Reznor baselayer.
Ha yes, guess the rock stars want to stay dry too
Wool or poly?
Currently trying both. I think I'll go with Poly top....holds less moisture, less expensive, and dries faster. But...Wool seems more stretchy so the wool pants fit me better
And another thing, does the one without the shoulder inlay hurt your back if you got a decently heavy pack on?
@@user-pd6bo7es1n I don't think so..feels kinda the same as any other shirt. Inlay is more of an extra nice to have
@@WillowWalksTheAT thank you
I hear they are very popular with gay men in nightclubs. Especially the leggings...
I've been wearing panty hose hiking and camping for at least 20 years now but I use them for a totally different reason and it's not kink! 😂 I hate lime disease especially the little demon 👿 carries!!! TICKS!!!!! Haven't had one penetrate the hose yet oh by the way I wear a whole panty hose body suit hard to find but I found one on Amazon
That's interesting...wondering if mesh would help there too...
Promo_SM 😏