Inside DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction + Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty - AI Visuals Roundtable
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- Cyberpunk 2077 2.0 is coming soon - the first showcase for DLSS 3.5 ray reconstruction, integrated into a full DLSS package including super resolution and frame generation, all combining to produce a state-of-the-art visual experience. In this roundtable discussion, we discuss how ray reconstruction works, how it was developed and its applications outside of path-traced games. We also talk about the evolution of the original DLSS, the success of DLSS in the modding community and the future of machine learning in PC graphics.
Many thanks to all participants in this roundtable chat: Bryan Catanzaro, Vice President Applied Deep Learning Research at Nvidia, Jakub Knapik VP Art and Global Art Director at CD Projekt RED, GeForce evangelist Jacob Freeman and Pedro Valadas of the PCMR sub-Reddit.
00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:10 When did the DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction project start and why?
00:04:16 How did you get DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction up and running?
00:06:17 What was it like to integrate DLSS 3.5 for Cyberpunk 2077?
00:10:21 What are the new game inputs for DLSS 3.5?
00:11:25 Can DLSS 3.5 be used for hybrid ray tracing titles and not just path traced ones?
00:12:41 What is the target performance budget for DLSS 3.5?
00:14:10 Is DLSS a crutch for bad performance optimisation in PC games?
00:20:19 What makes machine learning specifically useful for denoising?
00:24:00 Why is DLSS naming kind of confusing?
00:27:03 What did the new denoising enable for Cyberpunk 2077's graphical vision?
00:32:10 Will Nvidia still focus on performance without DLSS at native resolutions?
00:38:26 What prompted the change internally at Nvidia to move away from DLSS 1.0 and pursue DLSS 2.0?
00:43:43 What do you think about DLSS mods for games that lack DLSS?
00:49:52 Where can machine learning go in the future for games beyond DLSS 3.5? 
Игры
I love how CP 2077 has basically become the technical showcase for whatever is new in graphical technology.
Truly a game of the future😍 if only they kept it Next-Gen only it would’ve been a massive success from the get go!
This way it could be released for next-gen consoles as a next-gen game with all those improvements we're seeing on PC right now.
ikr, its a fully functional nvidia commercial, clever nvidia (as the developer said, nvidia came and said hey implement this, for sure is some money flow from nvidia to de developers which is good at least win/win)
It's an Nvidia advertisement.
It's just a shame that the game itself is quite bad.
Bryan's hair was definitely generated by AI. No human could grow such luscious locs.
Bryan is *fabulous*
I guess this kind of comments are a good example, what often happens beneath YT videos. People hardly get, what a person in the video is talking about, so their brain transits in a state of emergency and makes silly, superficial jokes about the person's appearance.
It's annoying to read those, seriously. Please respect this gentleman.
When i watch a digital foundry video, i want to talk about technologies in gaming. Sadly the commentary section seems to become more and more a mainstream place.
PS: LOL thank you Trolls for your attention, but i don't give a penny for your comments. I stick to my words, because it's about the truth. Cry even more, if you want. I don't care. LOL
@@aladdin8623their comments weren't disrespectful in any way, grow a pair
@@aladdin8623 you dropped your fedora.
Awesome Nvidia Hairworks going on there with Bryan...looks very real and a solid 60fps
Talking about hairwork they never update any of it anymore, right?
@@tonyhuwa641Don't you see the hair? They clearly improved the tech.
Jokes aside: last time i've seen that tech is in the witcher 3.
@@Z3t487metro exodus
@@tonyhuwa641 probably because tressFX just won............
Think about it, it was open source many developers used to create their own solutions like PureHair from crystal dynamics.
There is literally nothing Nvidia could've done to make it special again. Maybe, they'll use AI magic to make hairworks 2.0 lol
@@Z3t487i think Metro exodus has hairworks too
I had an opportunity to talk with Jakub Knapik at Phantom Liberty Tour in Warsaw and I know how passionate he is about path tracing and how this technology make Cyberpunk looks better. It is very pleasing for me to see him here and hear even more. At August 6th DLSS 3.5 wasn't announced yet so I wasn't able to ask about this technology in Cyberpunk 2077 and Phantom Liberty DLC so this material is even more valuable for me right now. Cannot wait for new update and DLC. ;)
I know you can call PL a DLC because technically It's a correct term but i would call it an expansion pack because It brings a new story to explore. My 2 cents and feel free to call it whatever you like anyways.
@@Z3t487 What is a difference between expansion pack and dlc? isnt that the same thing?
@@asur1194 No. A DLC is extra downloadable content like some skins, armor, various items, cars whatever etc... And expansion pack often contains new story content and can also add new locations to a game.
Unfortunately, it's also a dead end. Phantom Liberty is the only/final DLC for the game, and CDPR has discontinued the REDengine in favour of UE5. I'm happy that it's getting a last hurrah, but I wish we'd see more from it in the future.
Back in the day it was a lot more than that, think BG2 Throne of Bhaal or The Burning Crusade. Ironically CDPR know this, they called Hearts of Stone DLC and Blood and Wine an expansion.
This was incredible setup. Mixing these people together to get every perspective. Also Bryan burning Starfield was hilarious.
Bethesda needs to integrate DLSS into Starfield.
Yea that was a good burn lol and he's right
Lol. Where was that? Can anyone point me to the timestamp? =O
@@thecircusfreak5364 Done! And the community mod was already great ;D
@@v1kt0u5 14.38
A 1 hour video??? Imma lock in
Me too
Half way through lmao
They really had to hit that 10 min Mark, didnt they?
Heck, yeah!
@@talison461It's 8 minutes now for the mid roll ad.
What a fascinating conversation! That Starfield burn was extremely funny, and he said it with confidence!!
I can imagine Todd Howard getting all red-eared and meek 😳 What? My game?
Answering to 00:14:10
"I think Starfield isn't terrible well optimised and yet, it also doesn't have DLSS in it. So clearly, they weren't using DLSS as a crutch."
Oh boy, going to see this one make the rounds again on forums, reddit, articles lol
Nvidia's president of deep learning really just murdered Starfield fr
He really said that even with AMD's involvement, optimization is shit lmao
@@sumairsaif2050 It was mostly a shot fired at the clueless gamers who think only lazy devs use DLSS and upscaling tech being a sign for "no optimization".
@@tripnils7535 It was also a shot fired at Starfield, which almost certainly signed an agreement with AMD to keep DLSS out of the game until after its release. Nvidia can't be happy about that.
@@mattmexor2882AMD partnering with Starfield arguably made AMD look worse. Because even with partner deal and FSR exclusivity the game runs like complete ass and you basically are required to use FSR to play it. Not to mention FSR 2 looks pretty bad.
The shots fired at Starfield at 14:37. Oof.
Great job as always, DF.
Shots fired towards Nvidia by Pedro. Oof. 😅
That was funny as hell
Pedro defelcting from the fact that his colleagues at the Geforce Driver team still haven't released a gameready driver for Starfield. The fault is at Nvidia, not bethesda lmao, and plenty of sources within Nvidia have confirmed that fact.
@@wile123456 Fault is 20 years old Creation Engine, means ONLY on Bethesda side. This engine is so outdated that it doesn't even support CPU multicore properly.
@@p0k314COMProblem is what other engine is suitable for that kind of game?, and would have as good mod support/implementation.
This gave me such a deeper understanding of how DLSS actually works. Thanks Bryan! That Starfield Burn too, oof.
Yeah.
Better be MUCH better when DLSS gets officially there :( Using the mod, is good but got a few bugs still!
@@romainbeaulande3486for me only framegen came with bugs. DLSS looks and runs way better than fsr already
@@backfischritter yes, I think there is no word on frame generation. So have to wait and see
FG runs really good in Starfield. Even though it's a mod. I did a side by side on a 4090. 4k/60 Ultra native, FG alone ads another 50% fps to fluidity, adding DLSS Quality ads another 50% for double the frame rate on screen with barely any noticeable image quality degradation. These technologies are quite impressive at the utility and choice they offer to the user.
DLSS is not much better in SF, its somewhat better with maybe somewhat better performance, for most people. Officially it wont be much better, that sick burn was lazy nonsense from the market leader wanting to sound on level with gamers. It made me cringe and roll my eyes.
Well done DF, this is a real milestone of an interview, you have found yourself as the nexus point for this discussion. A crucible if you will...that's why your called Digital foundry!
Every crucible needs a catalyst.
Seriously? You don't at all see that it was essentially an unofficial one-hour advertorial for Nvidia, a company that's officially sponsored DF videos in the past?
yeah i see it, but there are enough critical/negative comments around youtube already, i was in a light hearted mood. Also im not sure its as big a deal as people think, consumers watching this video i assume can make their own decisions on which GPU company to pledge allegiance to. I just accept that DF follows Nvidia's tech lead and reaps some reward. Worse things to worry about me thinks@@sambagogo777
@@sambagogo777Is ANY, of the in the video said stuff, not extremely informative and true?
It's not like they where making unfounded statements they talk about their fields in which they are all experts...
Absolutely! 100% Agree here, what a cool lineup, awesome questions - many really fundamental answers. Anyone who wants to pick up on what "AI" can do for gaming, should watch this. It's a rel. wholistic overview of what we have here. 💚
Wonderful discussion. Especially at 20:19, how Bryan beautifully explains the importance of AI while the screengrabs by DF show what he is talking about in games. Really fun and exciting to watch..
At first I felt this was potentially the best implementation of Nvidia Hairworks I've ever seen. On reflection, my assumption is Bryan is actually pre-rendered.
xDDDDDDDDDDD
I find it amazing that DF has the pull and influence to be able to bring together such high level minds in the industry for a round table such as this.
They did it before its not the first time however still impressive 😎
That hair, and then that starfield burn. What a guy!
14:37 Bryan throwing some SERIOUS ambient occlusion! Wow!
😂😂😂
Yeah he nailed Starfield for its meager 30fps and sub-optimal performance.
Thank you Alex and everyone involved for putting this together.
Very interesting and informative.
Super interesting discussion. Thank you DF for bringing it to us.
Great interview Alex. It's almost like you had a list of all the questions I would have asked. Thanks!
Pedro asked the question about DLSS's confusing naming - specifically the version numbering - that many enthusiasts have been perplexed as to why Nvidia would naming these stuffs in such a way. Jacob is an intelligent man and I suspect he probably shares the same sentiments regarding the confusion, but hearing him trying to answer it in such a roundabout way, the penny drops and I suddenly understand why they named it that way.
It's the same philosophy behind the naming scheme of USB3 and USB4; it's the same philosophy behind HDMI 2.1. It's the current trend of naming thing with a version number.
And that sucks.
Yeah between the lines of Jacob's answer it was clear it's just marketing
I love the point Bryan makes from 35:36. When you think about how games have had to hack lighting behaviour up to now (consider early 3D games like MGS duplicating a scene under the floor to simulate reflections), but we are now getting the most "real" frames ever produced in gaming with DLSS.
It's not. Really not.
When we talk about fake frames vs real frames, we talk about engine rendering from input. You do something, the game compute what that looks like, and renders it. Something interpolated, or fake, frames can't do. Which increase input latency, and whole chain latency.
Bryan dodged the question (quite masterfully) by talking about something else entirely, all rendering is fake, traditional raster is nothing but fake, while path tracing is way more close to reality and a simulation of light. But the question and issue weren't about how simulated each pixel were, but about interpolation and how that affect input and controls.
And we all know why it's important. The games industry is selling 4K (now 8K) gameboxes, that almost never render 4K (and never 8K). It's about how game publishers ship 15fps games for over a decade, games with massive recurring stutters.
The next console gen will very probably have hardware accelerated frame interpolaters/generators. Give that blindly to AAA game devs and publishers and you can bet, with no risk, we'll see 10-15fps games sold as "30fps" (and even missing that mark). Good luck with so-called latency reductions there. Exactly the same way some current games render around 500p and upscale to a 4K display.
That's why some of us are raising warning flags about how this enters the gaming discourse, and how it's presented by the medias.
@@LiraeNoir You're missing his point. The light rays are behaving more naturally than rasterization so by default are the real frames and all rasterization before path tracing have been fake. And it's a solid point. What's the fake frame, a hand created image to make what the artist thinks light should do, or beaming rays of light onto a 3D scene and seeing where they go like real light does? When you look at it like they're meaning they're dead on. The path tracing shows you what it would really look like.
Then, the frame generation system takes a few realistic ray pathed 'images' and interprets the delta between those _realistic_ scenes.
_Way_ more real than any gaming level rasterization.
@@LiraeNoir Of course if you define "fake" and "real" the way you say then what you say is true. But how appropriate is it to do that? What matters is overall image quality at a certain performance level. That is increased with ray tracing and DLSS compared to brute force pure rasterization? Why? Because all graphics are fake. Everything is a hack or an approximation. Rasterization is filled with so many hacks that try to approximate the way light really works but they aren't very good at it. The only reason they are used is to maintain performance. So the "real pixels" you get out of any real time renderer are fake. They don't display what is meant to be displayed. Regardless, in the final analysis what matters is image quality. The use of DLSS increases image quality at a particular performance target.
@@Veritas.0 I like both of your points and agree with both of you. I think veritas more accurately described what Bryan's answer was meaning, but what @LiraeNoir said is still not to be ignored and is a very important point.
@@Veritas.0 We already know that low fps scenarios using frame-gen results in a bad experience. That's not the intended use of the technology and I think game devs know that. I believe frame-gen will continue to work exactly as it does now, providing a nice boost to what was already an acceptable experience. I've used it in about 4 games: Spiderman, Ratchet & Clank, Cyberpunk, and Starfield (with the mod). In each case my 4070ti was outputting around 70-90fps native and frame gen boosted that up to over 140fps, maxing out my monitors refresh rate. If a developer really tries to boost a 15fps game to 30fps I think it will be terrible and obvious and they will get criticised for it. But I just don't think its something we have to worry about and we can just celebrate this advancement instead.
What a treat! Thanks for the great discussion, Alex!
This was a great talk. I love seeing new technology be birthed and watch it grow.
When I was a kid pong was the most powerful game we could play on our TV at home.
But to go from that to DLSS 3.5 in graphics technology is a privilege.
Imagine someone who was born in 1870 live long enough to see the moon landing.
Literally going from horses/steam trains to sending men on the moon.
I can't imagine the feeling.
But from pong to Ray Reconstruction is my wow feeling in regards to gaming evolution. I'll throw VR in this mix too.
Such a scary but great time to live in. 😊
Amazing conversation, one the best DF videos to date. Fascinating insights to general applications of AI while still keeping a creative human touch
This is some of the most interesting content I've seen on RUclips in months. Really enjoyed hearing Jakub and Bryan speak especially. Thanks for bringing this to us, hope we get more in the future!
My hope is that DLSS 4.0 can AI enhance windows cursor de-noising from Jakubs cam. Great talk!
Great interview, amazing guests, congrats!
This was an awesome video. I love listening to people so much smarter then me and walking away more informed and excited. I'm hoping to see DLSS introduced in more older titles to free up computing power for modders to improve textures and assets whilst making games run better. I've been wanting to see DLSS3+ in Assetto Corsa and/or OpenXRToolkit. It has a huge modding scene and us VR players are having to compromise on content and quality to get an acceptable performance in VR.
Nvidia should be using AI to improve VR performance.
What about a AI based Async Timewarp to improve reprojection ??
Or just Frame Gen for VR ?
Reshade/Depth3D that can generate stereoscopic images from a single eye view + depth buffer. How about using AI to do this better in a way that does not produce artifacts ?
Superb roundtable! More of this type of content please!
Lmao Bryan's dunk on Starfield was hilarious.
Fantastic, informative and full discussion about the absolute bleeding edge of graphics right now. I felt like the balance of participants (engineers, users, etc) definitely helped make it so as well. Just a great piece of content, thanks!
Many Thanks Alex, we are blessed to have you and all DF talking about this stuff nowdays, it's extremely interesting and one of the most reliable source of information on those technical stuff. Cheers!
Bryan is coolest looking dude I've seen for ages!!
I've had a crap day. Thank you for making something I can look forward too.
yet another great video with great variety of guests on futuristic tech that brings us further . . .
Such fun discussioun you brought us here Alex! Thank you!
What a great, multi-faceted discussion touching on many aspects of today's tech discourse way beyond just visuals. Keep up the great work DF team. 👏
I love how the guy's answer to "why is the DLSS naming so confusing" is "it's easier to understand that way".
Yeah, that one was a bit weird. Why not market the damn things on a per-feature level, because that's how they're showing up in the game settings anyway.
All of his answers felt kind of BS to me.
@@faultier1158 you have to buy a card and the game to see what it supports, it's WAY less confusing and completely consumer friendly, not a marketing scheme at all.
It was a stupid answer to a stupid question. Yes, the naming is stupid but what are you expecting them to answer in this interview? Waste of time considering how much more interesting everything else they talked about was. NVIDIA isn't going to change their marketing because some Reddit mod asked a question so why bother.
@@joos3D all of the PCMR dude question was dumb, Alex really had better question.
Thank you Alex, DF team, and all guests, that was Awesome and very informative video.
Awesome, great mix of people, conversations and topics.
Excellent content Alex. Thank you for making this kind of technical discussion available for everyone!
A discussion with devs and graphics engineer about optimization, stuttering, shader compilation would be great.
For example, have nixxes present how they worked on their best ports...
Regarding DLSS used as a crutch, and ''fake frames'' i think that people need to accept that we are really facing a paradigm shift in computing. And i'd say that as long as it allows to maintain a decent image quality, while pushing new and more accurate rendering techniques, there is nothing to complain about.
The real problem these days (and it's been quite some time now) on pc is that there are a lot of games plagued with stutters, or that are not scalable enough, to the point where you can't have decent enough performance with mid tier hardware, even when lowering settings. That's the real issue imo.
Yeah, I like to run native and have invested in hardware able to do that. Still, with something like RT Overdrive in CP2077, super res and frame gen actually allowed a new, next-gen feeling experience-even _before_ DLSS 3.5. If the experience actually feels cutting edge, it's easier to accept using the tech despite its imperfections. As long as there are noticeable drawbacks, there will always be those who turn those features off, but the smaller the drawbacks become, the more people will use them.
For example, I usually turn off Vsync for that bit of extra responsiveness. Even at 155fps, it helps parrying in Lies of P and aiming in Horizon Zero Dawn more responsive in a tangible way that directly improves gameplay. If there was no perceivable latency, of course I'd have it on because the smoothness of camera panning and lack of tearing look wonderful.
I'm really glad dlss is still improving, and hopefully encouraging XESS and FSR to keep up too. The 'good enough' attitude that led to the stagnation of TAA with artifacts and poor motion clarity is finally over.
Im hoping DLAA will keep getting improved too until it can finally rival the motion clarity of MSAA or even supersampling before we reach that 'good enough' mentality again.
DLAA is already far beyond what MSAA can offer IMO. Unless you're talking about a game that doesn't have a super high geometric density and makes zero use of alpha transparencies (which don't really exist much anymore).
@@Your_Paramour image quality as a whole, you're arguably right, and I'm not interested in arguing. I'm talking purely about the loss of detail in motion and softening of edges, which is still an issue with DLAA but much improved over most TAA
"The 'good enough' attitude that led to the stagnation of TAA with artifacts and poor motion clarity is finally over."
That is not what happened. Just like dlss vs fsr, AI can improve on most things better than humans can do by hand
@@existentialselkath1264 You can almost completely solve that right now by using DSR 4X combined with DLSS Quality, of course, it's incredibly expensive but a cool look into the future
@@tbunreall but even FSR is much better than standard TAA. Not to mention unreal engine finally upgrading their awful TAA to TSR in response to the new image quality arms race.
Only Intel and Nvidia are really using AI for this rn. It works incredibly well and is much better than the alternatives, but it's not the sole reason for improvement
Wonderful stuff! I learned a lot. Thanks for your time and effort.
Really good selection of people with different perspectives in this round table. Really love those nitty--gritty technical unscripted conversations!
Fascinating convo, can't wait till I get a 4090 or 5080 or whatever next year. DLSS 3.5 ray reconstruction is amazing. Wish we could see more of it in this vid though.
Such great questions to bring to this Alex.
All very interesting stuff. Can't wait to see it in practice when the CP2077 update and Alan Wake II release.
Brilliant interview, gripped me from start to finish. Peak DF
Awesome interview! Thank you for this to everyone involved. 😎😎😎
Id like to see Overdrive Ray tracing in something like Deus Ex Mankind Divided. Very underrated game imo with nice cyberpunk style cities, but I like its more tight central world.
Second this. Amazing game and incredible world
Yep it would be an amazing idea for a patch, for example releasing it a few weeks before the release of a new Deus Ex (one can dream)
I love Mankind Divided a lot, i played it like 7 or 8 times lol, the atmosphere in each area is amazing, and so much stuff to do/find, exploration is really rewarded in this game. I don't get why this one is not really liked and most people say they prefer the previous game, while it was a good game too i admit, it didn't click with me as much as Mankind Divided.
@@acecel Just another bullshit gaming discourse issue. There was all the issues around the politics in the marketing. "Aug lives matter" or something along those lines. Then all the weird pre-order shit they did prior to launch. Shit that had nothing to do with the devs themselves overshadowed the launch and they just never seemed to get out from under it. As a game it was fucking great and we need more immersive sims in the world but gamers gotta be mad about something
Great video! Especially Bryan and Jakub make me very excited for the future of graphics and gaming as a medium. (And short term I'm gonna have so much fun with CB2077 again.) I find it so cool that after being an active gamer for 35 years (roughly starting at age 10), it can still be this exciting today, perhaps even more so! Without DF and perhaps even specifically without Alex, we wouldn't get these kind of insight videos. Really great stuff, thanks! And also thanks to Nvidia for pushing the medium. I have some less positive thoughts about their commercial strategy, but without Nvidia I don't think we would be even close to where we are with modern graphics, so that really does deserve a big compliment as well.
Such a great interview! quality content, loved it
Awesome discussion. Super insightful and thought provoking! Looking forward to the new DLSS features in Cyberpunk (in addition to the expansion / 2.0 of course), and excited about the growth and implementation of DLSS (and AI tools in general) in other games going forward. Cheers Alex / DF 🍻
I love how a bunch of important people + one sub reddit moderator was able to be at the preview event.
It's great listening to perspectives from different departments of game Dev on this subject.
Cyberpunk really is a marriage between art and technology.
P.S. Cześć, Redzi 👋🏻😄
so right😊
Hey guys, this was a fascinating discussion!!!
I was having a bad day and your great video improved my mood considerably so thank you for that!
Best gaming interview I’ve ever seen. Bravo!
This is an amazing video. You can just feel the level of intelligence, knowledge, nerdiness, innovation and hunger for improvements.
Brilliant job DF for making this video possible 👏🏼. Love to see more of these videos and respect these devs. 👍🏼
What a nice bunch of dudes.
Great vid
So pumped, was waiting for Alex to do a video on this!
I can't believe they're dumping this engine after getting it to this point. It feels so smooth in-game and looks amazing. All i can see in the future is stuttering :(
Yeah, UE can be good, but one thing it's synonymous with is poor performance. I sort of blame Epic on this one and not necessarily developers. I'm all for good-looking games, but there's definitely an over emphasis on graphics than performance and needs to change.
Sad to see how Stutter Engine is being used for most triple A games. Not to mention the terrible performance and image quality with Ray Tracing.
Not seen Alex this happy in a video in ages. Bless him, he was like a kid at Christmas. Very interesting and informative, thanks!
Fantastic video and conversation.
Very interesting discussion, I love the part about future gaming.
I kind of want to put Bryan in a room with Carmack for a day and see what wonders they could conjure.
This was very interesting and very informative. Thanks to everyone involved.
Somebody tell me where I can buy the Nvidia Shampoo and Conditioner now!
😂😂😂
Insightful and interesting interview. More like this in the future, please ;)
Absolutely fascinating stuff, my brain loves listening to a group of tech smart human talking together!
Less that 15 minutes into the video, but I just gotta stop and say- this talk is amazing! Thank you for giving us this insight into this new and exciting technology. Can't wait to see what it looks like in a few years!
Not really. A couple of guys glucking NVIDIA shills.
@@jamezxh That nonsense around DLSS/etc. where they deflect about badly optimized games basically needing DLSS/etc. was so eyerolling.
Bryan's answer to Pedro's first question was fucking GOLD lmao. Solid dig at Starfields performance and lack of DLSS. Good shit lol
Awesome discussion and great choice of people!
The ray tracing overdrive is unbelievable. It completely changes interiors, looks photo realistic. And people don't look falsely lit anymore. I can't believe I thought psycho ray tracing was amazing lol
What’s amazing about it is how it makes a scene actually look 3 dimensional. It’s great. Can’t wait until an affordable card can do it.
you are imagining thing's, to you need someone to put out the differences ?
@@Akkbar21 that's maybe possible with 60 or 70 series meaning whatever the 6060ti costs by then but definitely 500+
@@chillhour6155 I've done a bunch of back and forth comparisons just toggling it off and on. And interior lighting is on a whole other level, even tunnels and covered walkways. Also inside your car...I was driving at night and should not have been able to see johnny in the backseat fully lit. With RT overdrive he's in the dark as he should be
Epic discussion. Super interesting.
Very enlightening interview, Alex. This is the kind of media I really like to see from DF.
You guys really love your CDI Tetris music for the background music.
Great video!! Hope we get more of these types of round table discussions with developers and hardware/software makers discussing how the technology is implemented in games.
Hopefully we can get Bethesda and AMD to discuss Starfield and how FSR implementation helps improve the visuals and game experience.
Just WOW! What an awesome interview and collection of intellect. This is hands down the best DF interview yet, well done team. I'm stunned! Best quote "Raster in general is a bag a of fake-ness", lol. Thanks to everyone involved in making this.
14:11 DLSS optimization question from Pedro and the absolute savagery from Bryan Catanzaro that followed was beautiful to watch.
All that we saw was pure dodging the question asked. The answer is Yea, devs are using it as an easy button instead of optimizing the game before using it.
There is a difference between LOD/MAPs/Oculusion and Using upscalers at 720p… one of them you can’t notice when done correctly and the other is clear as day.
@@BrotherO4 Not sure we watched the same thing.
First of all how the hell is NVIDIA supposed to comment on developers doing a shit job of optimizing their games.
Second, as the guy from CDPR said, if you want to find excuses for shitty optimization you can go much deeper than just upscaling, which once again comes out to, “yeah, it’s the dev’s job to properly optimize the title and not count on tech that’s actual purpose is to raise the bar in terms of visual fidelity, to push the game to barely playable framerates.”
It would’ve been wild if NVIDIA were like “yeah F these developers for not optimizing their titles properly and purely rely on DLSS for optimization”.
@@BrotherO4 It was a stupid question. How would you possibly expect them to answer? "You know, you're right. DLSS will cease development, effective immediately. That should make developers take optimization more seriously."
It mostly shows that gamers have no clue what they are talking about and just make up narratives for their lack of understanding of the topic.
@@BrotherO4 If you read between the lines he actually tried to avoid the question but replied with a yes because bethesda, while not using DLSS did use a competing upscaler as a crutch and ran the game at 50% render resolution by default on medium settings and 75% for ultra. I don't think he even meant to, he just wanted to have a dig at starfield and in turn AMD.
This is basically just an huge ad but I approve it because it's actually insane tech and very informative content presented by nice and humble guys which are coincidentally absolut experts in their fields!
That Starfield burn goes deep. lmao
What an awesome video and excellent questions from Alex. Jakub talked about engine optimizations being thought of as just a series of cheats / made me think it’d be interesting to dive into what those cheats specifically are. I feel like “game isn’t optimized” is this sort of sweeping nebulous statement people make without a lot of context as far as what that means from a development perspective
@@Petekaboo I mean my system could only play Crysis at sub-30 FPS when it released and I was not happy lol
The larger discussion about how AI can integrate into videogames near the end was really fascinating. I especially enjoyed hearing Jakub's view that included excitement and interest, as well as some concerns over how AI could replace the creativity and artistry of humans in some areas. Eventually we'll be balancing on a knife's edge. But at least in the immediate future how AI has cemented itself into PC gaming especially has been a journey and a half. From being mind blown at the reveal of Turing/realtime raytracing to playing Cyberpunk with pathtracing on my own PC is nothing short of incredible
Really really amazing discussion!!
awesome video, great talks guys
Awesome work team!
This was pretty good, especially enjoyed the section on what really is a fake frame.
very interesting. thank you for this!
Fantastic conversation! 🌌💟☮️
Legendary discussion right here. Can't imagine what rt is gonna look like 5 years from now we're entering the era of photorealism
omg, DF scored an interview with Richard Branson!
Really insightful stuff to hear validates a bunch of thoughts I've had myself about where everything is going validated. Scared though at this rate Cyberpunk is going to be a showcase for the 5090 :D
watching this and the growl fm documentary was a real treat. thanks df!
OverDrive Cyberpunk is really incredible to see in person, outside of the strange "disco ball" and sparkling on some textures and stuff like wire mesh textures. Once that is ironed out, it will be incredible.
Bryan calling out Starfield is right too, as it runs horribly even though it still relies heavily on older rasterization techniques.
14:37 Bryan bringing the heat, hilarious
Bravo Alex, complimenti!
Not having time to play as many games these days, but still being able to keep in touch with the industry like this is great. Congrats to Digital Foundry for such great content
This is the content I love the most on DF next to the big game reviews. Indepth talks about game tech is fascinating.
how was this at all indepth, the most softball questions ever....
@@Decenium It was no Siggraph presentation obviously. If you want that you are looking at the wrong channel.
The crutch conversation was very enlightening and answered my exact question to a great extent, thank you for this!
Great video ! keep up the hard work.......amazing tech
thx for pioneering new technology grounds!