There are some case prep procedures that just do not matter for a great deal of shooters/reloaders. Turning necks is at the top of the list followed by uniforming/deburring/cleaning primer pockets.
True, I don't need to do any case prep except trimming for deer hunting in the woods. However, for 1000yd shots, every small technique collectively makes a difference. My turned neck reloads are a small bit more accurate than otherwise identical loads.
Yes, sometimes, maybe but not my favorite thing to do. What i do is buy 500 or 1k rounds of brass all the same lot either Peterson, Alpha, or Lapua for particular rifle. See what the neck thickness is and have my reamer made accordingly.. i have only turned a few. Mostly yse an inside reamer pilot to remove the donut on the inside of my AIs. There is some vast variations in neck thicknesses on certain cartridges like a 220 Swift. Winchester brass being very thick is what I sized my reamer to. If i would have sized my reamer on Hornady or other brass and used Winchester brass i would be trimming all if it and that is NO FUN!!! LOL It is not so much the thickness i am after but the consistency in the side to side. I do my brass in batches of 500 minimum pieces. Thanks Keith, great video.
Really enjoy your videos. Please keep them going . I guess I'm in that tinker class but I want my rigs to shoot small as possible..... Can you do a video on just checking your action?... how to know if you have firing pin drag ect... . I hear from all the interviews Ala, EC podcasts that fire control is 90% of the battle.... mabey have a video on fire control and or how to tell if something isn't right or could be better?
Thanks for all your info. Love precision on my own time. Not sure I have time for PRS or F class but as an engineer, I love precision particularly in aerospace, Formula 1 and the ballistics of precision shooting. Love your style of presentation and the data you provide. Hope to head out for ladder tests (three each of six loads with two different powders=36 rounds), for 6.5 CM. Might give up after the first powder H4350, but if weather and operator hold out I'll run the W760 (amazing powder for lighter 7mm, .308 and Creedmoor. Bless you brother!
I think I would respectfully disagree. Most people dont know how to turn correctly. Correctly done, turning out the thickness inconsistencies does nothing but help. It's up to the individual as to if it's worth it or not, but in all scenarios, turned brass should outshoot not turned brass regardless of how much neck clearance is in the chamber. It's a simple test, shoot 20 turned and 20 not turned round robin and 100% you will see a significant difference in ES/SD and likely raw accuracy.
Excellent information. I have been reloading for over 30 years. I have never turned a case neck. I am a hunter and target shooter. I don't own a rifle that would really benefit from it. Great video !!!!
Pretty good advice. I do like better accuracy than I need when reloading and do neck turn brass sometimes when it is not all that uniform at the neck. And it will shave a 1/4 inch off a group in many cases. I don't just shoot a lot of bullets either. No more than necessary to get a good load and then I pretty much make 50-100 to hunt and check my zero before the next hunting season. Pretty sound advice. It is always better to buy good brass in the first place. I do like Peterson Brass that I most certainly won't neck turn. I have been very disappointed with Nosler Brass. I bought some that was on the short side and too many cases were different lengths out of the box, and this was premium stuff. Thanks for your take on things.
while not needed i like to at least skim turn for all my brass for my standard size chambers. Even Lapua and Alpha have small thickness variances and my OCD would go nuts knowing that hahahaha. All my BR stuff is tight necked so its mandatory on those. Doesnt take long and a neck turner doesnt have to be lots of money. LOL, I usually do my neck turning over a bowl while im watching a movie.
My 284 Win has a tight neck. I found a cheat code that allows me to avoid neck turning. I buy 6.5-284 brass and neck them up to .284 This thins out the case neck wall enough that I never have neck clearance issues.
I turned necks one time for one project. I never want to do it again. For that project I didn't really have a choice, I had to thin the necks. 300 win Mag to 350 REM mag. If I need more brass in the future, I will just buy it at $2 a piece instead of try to form it. If you just need clearance but not necessarily extreme precision, reaming is leaps and bounds easier and faster.
I wish I had heard this a month ago, and I would have saved nearly $600 in neck turning equipment expenses. BR shooters recommended and I was looking for improvement that I still haven’t found. And I’m not enjoying this journey. I just don’t have or can find anything but budget brass. Guess that makes me a tinkerer now.
Keith, what case holder were you using on your drill press? I have a wildcat that requires significant forming from a parent case and finally turning, and would prefer to use my drill press, but havent found a case holder that I like for the application, yet.
So I'm definitely not going to neck turn then, lol. Well timed video, I thank you sir. Have recently been looking into my reloading process now that I own rifles that can actually shoot better than I can. How important would you say neck expanding with a mandrel is, over the floating carbide size button inside FL sizing die set up that I currently use? And if I end up neck expanding with a mandrel and dry lube, should I dry lube the bullets before seating on top of that, or will the residual lube from expanding be sufficient?
Keith, isnt' t the case that we turn brass in F-class because it gives as lower SDs and statistically we get smaller groups at 300y+ range? For me it has little to do with a chamber itself. it had in the past.
If one can't slip a bullet into fired brass, it needs turned or reamed, correct? I ran into this potential problem while creating 30-30 Ackley Improved shells from 375 Winchester brass. And what about turning vrs reaming?
I do precision semi auto reloading and my dad keeps trying to get me to start neck turning. It just baffles me. My cases already get the crap kicked out of them.
There's also arguably no benefit from being tighter as well. I've seen many inconsistencies fixed by increasing neck clearance but none where I've had better consistent accuracy with a tight neck. A good test is whether or not you can drop a bullet into a fired case. It should fit into the neck with almost no resistance. All the cases should feel the same. If you've got some that drop clean and some that aren't then you likely need more clearance. This ensures that the neck can cleanly release the bullet before contacting the chamber walls. This is one of the first things I ask people when they tell me they have a rifle that shoots very tight most of the time but they consistently get "random" fliers. EDIT: I should have watched the whole video before commenting...
You are wrong about doughnuts . If the base of a bullet ( full diameter ) goes down into the doughnut it upsets consistent neck tension and can create bullet seating misalignment . If the bullet does not contact the doughnut then it is less of a problem . You don't turn the necks down so far that they get too thin . You just clean up about 75% of the surface for a factory chamber if turning for a tight neck chamber then you turn down as much as needed to get the correct fit with bullet seated . Some wrong ideas in this video . The case you show won't get a doughnut because you have skimmed the shoulder with the cutter .
Is there any point 4 concern with o6 or 270 with th long necks having to much free space neck to chamber if there are no blow back traces on case necks? Is.oo3 just right or?🦬
Excellent video on an important topic Keith. I'll be putting this in the Bulletin soon.
Great video. Thank you as i learned allot.
I reload for hunting , bench rest, and local precision competitions..
Straight forward- thanks for saving some of us a bunch of time and money. I wouldn't have known better.
There are some case prep procedures that just do not matter for a great deal of shooters/reloaders. Turning necks is at the top of the list followed by uniforming/deburring/cleaning primer pockets.
True, I don't need to do any case prep except trimming for deer hunting in the woods. However, for 1000yd shots, every small technique collectively makes a difference. My turned neck reloads are a small bit more accurate than otherwise identical loads.
Yes, sometimes, maybe but not my favorite thing to do.
What i do is buy 500 or 1k rounds of brass all the same lot either Peterson, Alpha, or Lapua for particular rifle. See what the neck thickness is and have my reamer made accordingly.. i have only turned a few. Mostly yse an inside reamer pilot to remove the donut on the inside of my AIs.
There is some vast variations in neck thicknesses on certain cartridges like a 220 Swift. Winchester brass being very thick is what I sized my reamer to. If i would have sized my reamer on Hornady or other brass and used Winchester brass i would be trimming all if it and that is NO FUN!!! LOL
It is not so much the thickness i am after but the consistency in the side to side. I do my brass in batches of 500 minimum pieces.
Thanks Keith, great video.
Really enjoy your videos. Please keep them going .
I guess I'm in that tinker class but I want my rigs to shoot small as possible.....
Can you do a video on just checking your action?... how to know if you have firing pin drag ect...
. I hear from all the interviews Ala, EC podcasts that fire control is 90% of the battle.... mabey have a video on fire control and or how to tell if something isn't right or could be better?
You can also check neck diameter with gage pins
Built an AR-10 in 6GT and went out of my way to get a no neck turn reamer to use with alpha brass. I couldn't be happier.
Thanks for all your info. Love precision on my own time. Not sure I have time for PRS or F class but as an engineer, I love precision particularly in aerospace, Formula 1 and the ballistics of precision shooting. Love your style of presentation and the data you provide. Hope to head out for ladder tests (three each of six loads with two different powders=36 rounds), for 6.5 CM. Might give up after the first powder H4350, but if weather and operator hold out I'll run the W760 (amazing powder for lighter 7mm, .308 and Creedmoor.
Bless you brother!
I think I would respectfully disagree. Most people dont know how to turn correctly. Correctly done, turning out the thickness inconsistencies does nothing but help. It's up to the individual as to if it's worth it or not, but in all scenarios, turned brass should outshoot not turned brass regardless of how much neck clearance is in the chamber. It's a simple test, shoot 20 turned and 20 not turned round robin and 100% you will see a significant difference in ES/SD and likely raw accuracy.
Excellent information. I have been reloading for over 30 years. I have never turned a case neck. I am a hunter and target shooter. I don't own a rifle that would really benefit from it. Great video !!!!
This video is gold for the why/why not and when. Sums up alot of videos.
Great explanation!
I always learn from your videos. Thanks.
another gem of knowledge thanks
Thanks a lot Keith. Very clear.
Pretty good advice. I do like better accuracy than I need when reloading and do neck turn brass sometimes when it is not all that uniform at the neck. And it will shave a 1/4 inch off a group in many cases. I don't just shoot a lot of bullets either. No more than necessary to get a good load and then I pretty much make 50-100 to hunt and check my zero before the next hunting season. Pretty sound advice. It is always better to buy good brass in the first place. I do like Peterson Brass that I most certainly won't neck turn. I have been very disappointed with Nosler Brass. I bought some that was on the short side and too many cases were different lengths out of the box, and this was premium stuff. Thanks for your take on things.
while not needed i like to at least skim turn for all my brass for my standard size chambers. Even Lapua and Alpha have small thickness variances and my OCD would go nuts knowing that hahahaha. All my BR stuff is tight necked so its mandatory on those. Doesnt take long and a neck turner doesnt have to be lots of money. LOL, I usually do my neck turning over a bowl while im watching a movie.
Yup.. just skim the high spots. For me I do it once on virgin brass and done.
My 284 Win has a tight neck. I found a cheat code that allows me to avoid neck turning. I buy 6.5-284 brass and neck them up to .284
This thins out the case neck wall enough that I never have neck clearance issues.
Thank you so much👍👌
Thank you
I turned necks one time for one project. I never want to do it again. For that project I didn't really have a choice, I had to thin the necks. 300 win Mag to 350 REM mag. If I need more brass in the future, I will just buy it at $2 a piece instead of try to form it. If you just need clearance but not necessarily extreme precision, reaming is leaps and bounds easier and faster.
This is true! I had to turn 100 pieces of Bertram Brass in order to chamber in my rifle. Bertram Brass is thicker than Winchester Brass.
I wish I had heard this a month ago, and I would have saved nearly $600 in neck turning equipment expenses. BR shooters recommended and I was looking for improvement that I still haven’t found. And I’m not enjoying this journey. I just don’t have or can find anything but budget brass. Guess that makes me a tinkerer now.
So would that money been better spent putting it toward an Autotrickler? Is it worth just going part way with a charge master?
Please,who makes that neck turning device you jad on your drill press. Looks nice, precise and simple. Please let me know so i may try it out.
Keith, what case holder were you using on your drill press? I have a wildcat that requires significant forming from a parent case and finally turning, and would prefer to use my drill press, but havent found a case holder that I like for the application, yet.
That one is from 21st century
So I'm definitely not going to neck turn then, lol. Well timed video, I thank you sir. Have recently been looking into my reloading process now that I own rifles that can actually shoot better than I can.
How important would you say neck expanding with a mandrel is, over the floating carbide size button inside FL sizing die set up that I currently use? And if I end up neck expanding with a mandrel and dry lube, should I dry lube the bullets before seating on top of that, or will the residual lube from expanding be sufficient?
What about ISSF 300 m shooting ? Pretty hard to know where to go as accuracy requirements are BR-like with PRS levels of fire volume
I wish I Sean this before I got a neck turning tool my factory chamber is to loose for turning I got worse groups
Keith, isnt' t the case that we turn brass in F-class because it gives as lower SDs and statistically we get smaller groups at 300y+ range? For me it has little to do with a chamber itself. it had in the past.
If one can't slip a bullet into fired brass, it needs turned or reamed, correct? I ran into this potential problem while creating 30-30 Ackley Improved shells from 375 Winchester brass. And what about turning vrs reaming?
I do precision semi auto reloading and my dad keeps trying to get me to start neck turning. It just baffles me. My cases already get the crap kicked out of them.
Sound advice
Why is .002 too risky? What is the risk? I'm new, thanks, love your videos.
Case to case variation. There is always the chance that you have one larger than the largest one you checked.
I would add that the real risk is if your neck gets squeezed by your chamber it could increase pressures to dangerous levels.
There's also arguably no benefit from being tighter as well. I've seen many inconsistencies fixed by increasing neck clearance but none where I've had better consistent accuracy with a tight neck. A good test is whether or not you can drop a bullet into a fired case. It should fit into the neck with almost no resistance. All the cases should feel the same. If you've got some that drop clean and some that aren't then you likely need more clearance. This ensures that the neck can cleanly release the bullet before contacting the chamber walls. This is one of the first things I ask people when they tell me they have a rifle that shoots very tight most of the time but they consistently get "random" fliers. EDIT: I should have watched the whole video before commenting...
Is the term ‘piece of brass’ an abbreviation of the word ‘case’? 😉
You are wrong about doughnuts . If the base of a bullet ( full diameter ) goes down into the doughnut it upsets consistent neck tension and can create bullet seating misalignment . If the bullet does not contact the doughnut then it is less of a problem . You don't turn the necks down so far that they get too thin . You just clean up about 75% of the surface for a factory chamber if turning for a tight neck chamber then you turn down as much as needed to get the correct fit with bullet seated . Some wrong ideas in this video . The case you show won't get a doughnut because you have skimmed the shoulder with the cutter .
When forming my wildcats I don't have a choice lol
Does anyone else just use super glue?
Is there any point 4 concern with o6 or 270 with th long necks having to much free space neck to chamber if there are no blow back traces on case necks? Is.oo3 just right or?🦬