No Wonder Intel Left The NUC Game
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2023
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Presenter: Brett Sticklemonster
Videographer: Brett Sticklemonster
Editor: Catlin Stevenson
Thumbnail Designer: Reece Hill 
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Minisforum currently has the UM790 (Ryzen 9 7940hs) with 32gb ram and 1tb ssd on sale for $700, which is an even better deal.
Its normal price is $879, so I definitely think you should check it out for a video if possible.
The Minisforum even supports up to 64Gb ram configuration if that is a factor, BUT the AS 6 has much better IO. The 6900HX is actually slightly faster than the 7940HS tho.
@@mrdali67 the part about the io may be right, but the 6900hx being slightly faster than the 7940hs is just not true, the 7940hs beats it in both CPU and GPU tests.
Geekom is now offering Intel based models using i5-13500 through i9-13900, with a slightly smaller form factor than the AMD models. It is hard to say at this stage which mini-pc is the most reliable, because that is an important long term consideration.
For those not in the know, AMD Laptop CPUs have been significantly more efficient than Intel Laptop CPUs for quite some time now.
...and AMD APU minis even have reasonable console level graphics
For those not in know, amd laptop cpu has better battery life bc it cuts all the IO function to lower uncore power consumption down so yes u get better battery but u don’t get thunderbolt. the nuc has thunderbolt meaning the uncore will be high so it won’t be as efficient as laptops. At daily usage amd chip is also a hot garbage, sometimes even worse than intel
@@zihechen3111Hot garbage? Benchmarks say otherwise.
@@zihechen3111average naive Intel fanboy 😂
@@opathoris daily power consumption doesn’t equal to FPU does not equal to run R23. A normal human being doesn’t run rendering 24/7 that is why those “benchmarks” u get does not mean sht
Really living up to their name now; Advanced 'Micro' Devices
*Advanced Micro Devices
Been living up to it. Hate to break it to you.
@@sorryidgaf.6043 Well IMO it may be living up to the name more than it ever had since when AMD was founded. Nevertheless AMD still does a brilliant job at pushing the market to evolve and innovate, especially back when Ryzen launched and when every time it gets performance bumps.
@@wilfredpeter1963 nuh uh
@@sorryidgaf.6043 Well...yeah. Transistors are tiny and the 'devices' AMD make are 'micro.'
It was a initially joke. Hate to break it to you.
For those curious, and if I did my math correctly, then the Intel NUC took about 29 Watt-hours to complete the render, while the AS6 took about 22 Watt-hours to complete the same task.
Thanks for the math.
That was my calculation too. In terms of battery capacity consumption (because this is running from a UPS) that would mean the AS6 would consume ~25% less of the battery's capacity by the end of the job.
I was going to convert the numbers in joules, but watt-hours work too. Thanks.
would love to see the power draw compared to a mac mini despite the obvious platform and size differences
If it’s anything like the rest of Apple’s new silicon it’d easily have the most performance per watt. Those ARM M2 chips are insane how well they perform for how much power they draw
The mini Mac would destroy it
hint: mac wins and its not even close. ARM vs x64
@@schizofennec I actually wonder we’ll start to see more arm devices make their way into other computers. I’d like to see something like a regular business laptop with a 60Wh battery combined with an Arm cpu. Decent performance and the battery would almost easily last a full workday and then some. Of course in the case of an OS like Windows the biggest issue would be program compatibility.
@@Silentguy_ funny thing is MS was actually the first on ARM and currently have volterra for devs. MS saw the value in ARM ages ago (with the original surface I think it was), hopefully getting apps supported will be easier this time around given Apple and Linux are doing the same. Not to mention the enterprise.
great info, thanks GEEKOM for looking out for us and the UFD fam
I’d like to see a comparison to the BeeLink AMD based mini PC. Looking at:
- Throttling
- Expandability
- Connectivity
I bought my Sister-in-law and Nephew both a BeeLink from Amazon Prime Day. His is a little better as he will actually use it for school etc; where she will mostly be online or editing documents. I set them up, and thoroughly impressed with both units.
Spend a lot of time in front of computers. The biggest relief I get is not just the heat, but the quiet that one experiences when they shut down their full sized desktop machine.
Just turn your sound up
The best part about the mini pc market is you can spend from ~$200ish to ~$900ish and find something to suit most needs. The bad part is there are so many out there it can be hard to find mini's for more niche uses.
be glad! :-) any suggestions for why for doing 2D architectural CAD, please? never games! thanks!!
seems i missed it - did you measure the idle power draw? how does it compare?
I had wanted a ryzen 7940HS/HX laptop without a dGPU, but it's not made yet. So, I ordered a 7940HS minisforum unit and was completely blown away as to how efficient and fast this thing is. In fact, I'm setting it up to daily drive replacing my 13900K/a770 for a week or so just to see if I miss the power or the 13900K. If you are going to do these comparisons in the future where you compare power usage, you absolutely must do power usage over time (ie, Joules), not just how much power it's drawing during your render. Right now, AMD is very much on top and I hope Intel has an answer in the future (as in yesterday - Xe is showing it's age). The 7940HS is more efficient than any other processor I have and if I lived in an area with frequent power outages or high prices for electricity that forced me to use a solar backup, I'd pick the 7940HS as it's going to run considerably longer on a battery backup system than anything I've tested. PS: These things are WAY overpriced when you consider that they don't have keyboard/mouse/monitor and only make sense as a desktop replacement.
There's a fee companies on aliexpress that make ryzen 7735hs and 7840hs laptops actually. They have really good reviews but come with a locked bios. Not sure how I feel about that, but man am I tempted to get. 7840hs laptop!
7940U is same silicon as HS/HX, difference is in stock TDP -- if you need higher TDP limit, then maybe something like ryzenadj would do the job.
Correction. The Intel NUC versions is overpriced. A serious Laptop for more heavy workload is still more expensive than a desktop system, and a dedicated Gaming Laptop that really can push the newest aaa games is extremely overpriced. These 7940Hs and 740 radeon NUCs pack a good punch for both reasonable gaming performance and also some really good multithreaded performance without costing a fortune and being very power efficient. Unless you seriously need the highest single core performance and most effective gpu encoding both Intel and Nvidia has totally lost ground control of how much you can push power usage and prices to claim to be the fastest in class. Intel IS already beaten, Next in line is to get Nvidia either to leave the gaming market for good or start making products that makes sense for normal users.
For anyone that wants to know - the AS6 is built on the Asus PN53 ExpertCenter Mini-PC - there is an even newer model the PN53-S1 with Ryzen 7000 CPUs - we use them as our barebones kits at work and we love them!
Thanks for the info ..I'm wondering if there is even a better more costly NUC out there ? Any ideas, thanks.
@@kahvac Not in the traditional palm-top cube factor that I'm aware of. Units in that size typically haven't had a dGPU in them and just use the iGPU, when AMD's next range comes out with a better iGPU I would expect you'd get a formidable entry-level battle box out of the R7 version.
Getting bigger than the 'cube' Intel used to make 'NUC Extreme' but that is more of a Micro tower as it allows you to install video cards with an x16 slot. This has been taken over by ASUS after they purchased Intel's NUC business - it's now called the ASUS NUC 13 Extreme, up to 750W 3-slot video cards are supported
I appreciate the reply. I need to replace the Dell Precision 7910 Tower with Dual Xeon processors I'm using now I've had it for 7+ years. I don't use it for gaming but need a good unit to run 4 monitors for stock trading and editing 4K videos. Never had an issue with any of these but need to update. I don't need the tower but comes in hand to store (4) 18TB UltraStar's Also never had a problem with those either. Thanks in advance if you have any thoughts.@@theironangel767
The comparison at 6:00 yields 105kJ (kilowatt-seconds) for the NUC13, but only 79kJ for the AS6; the AS6 took 25% less energy and thus battery here.
I'd like to know what the noise levels of both systems are when fully loaded.
Would be nice to see a comparission between AS 6 and nextgen AS with 780M graphics just to see how much faster it will be or for the matter a Phoenix 2 APU when it is released.
Measure the power usage using the usb power input by running it of the usb-c port of the battery backup. And then benchmark how long they can run of off the battery backup during one Reese's regular work days' loads.
I recently got the barebone Intel NUC 13 with the i5-1340P new for €440 (it's €459 now here at the cheapest store but a lot of options for
@maarten6766, can you test the cinebench and black magic raw speed on your NUC 13? I plan to use this for video editing, but really struggling on selection. And if you can do a test for exporting 10 min 4k video for Davinci resolve, that will be really appreciated!
I picked up a um773! great little machine, as a gamer who has had to put his setup away since having 2 little kids 2 under 2 lol these mini and portable monitors is a life saving.
If you want a lower power version get something with the AMD U series like the 7730U or 7740U system instead. I got a a ASUS PN50 4300U in 2021 and it runs at less than 20w. Yes only quad core but more than enough to browse the web watch videos etc mounted using the VESA mount at the back of my TV
So using your numbers, on power efficiency for the render:
NUC13 took 26m48s or 1608s at 65W, or 104520 Watt Seconds, or 29.03 Watt Hours.
AS6 took 18m21s or 1101s at 72W, or 79272 Watt Seconds, or 22.023 Watt Hours.
So the AS6 looks better, assuming you only run it for the time required for the render.
I would like to know how the power was measured - is this the manufacture's power rating, or did you measure the power consumption from the wall while doing the test?
Picked up a Beelink 7735HS mini PC and it's near 6800/6900 ground of performance. Architecture is the same, but I use it for work and performs so good being all I do is web based apps. The random time I was able to play a game waiting for a car to come in can still play Halo Infinite just over 40fps...
Since the AMD consumes more power in a smaller package, I wonder how the temps compare and if they are a concern?
I may consider one of these for when I travel. I have a very old laptop which doesn't cut the mustard for what I do.
That’s the tall NUC. You can expand the IO on the NUC with that bottom portion with another Ethernet, another USB, another HDMI, dp, thunderbolt, etc.
Newegg sells barebones NUC:
13th gen i7 (slim ver) - 599.99 direct from newegg
2x16 GB DDR4 - 49.99 direct from newegg
1TB Samsung 990 pro - 74.99 (Amazon)
Total: 725.00 with Samsung/g.skill mem, and official Intel with 3 years replacement warranty from Intel…
I have one used in my arcade cab running eGpu 1650 via tb4, and also bigbox. The NUC comes with a 120w brick…
Also you can get a 13th gen 8 core 12 thread i3 for significantly less… I’ve deployed over a few thousand NUC’s starting from the 8th gen to businesses. It wasn’t until the 12th gen I seriously considered one for myself. 13th gen VYK sold me on the alu silver on white edition for the i5 (it’s like a miniature Mac mini)from back in the day…😊
I just wished the 680M and 780M would've been more useful for video editing like the Iris Xe graphics that can easily decode H265 10 Bit 4:2:2 footage that even the RTX 4090 cannot do.
ETA Prime has a video on the UM790 pretty amazing lil box. EM680 ain't no slouch either.
The AMD chip set is a generation old! They have a 780 m now
He literally mentioned that in the video
I use after effects and Toonboom Harmony how good do you think it will function on this AS6
What options exist if you need one 3.5" drive and 10gb network?
I haven't seen any mini-PCs with 10gbe yet but maybe one of the USB 3.2 / 4 ports could be used for networking? I think a 3.5" drive would have to go into a USB enclosure.
Why not summarize the render job power consumption in KWh?
Thank you! That was a very helpful video for me as I am looking to buy a mini PC
A more interesting comparison would be to include those 1L mini-PCs by Dell, Lenovo and HP which have desktop low power CPUs and single slot discreet GPUs. Think about i9-13900T + RX 6400 or GTX 1650.
Servethehome has been reviewing what they call tiny mini micro PC's for several years now. Covering all the brands you mentioned plus the new mini PC stuff from non enterprise brands.
Can you run some stable de fusion tests on it?
That background music though. At one point I had flashbacks to an LSD trip I took when I was 16.
Fun watt hours comparison on that render:
The Intel NUC consumed 29.03 watt hours
The AMD AS6 consumed 22.02 watt hours
can you use an eGPU on these NUCs?
this will become even better with the introduction of fsr3
I was hoping to see some Intel NUC's with the 14th gen processors. The new integrated Arc graphics are good enough to match the GTX 1630 which makes this fine for people who want to do light gaming or light video editing
The NUC used 104,520 Joules to complete the render, while the AS6 took 79,272.
is it true that it is not possible to play 4k Video disks on Amd?
Did someone mention how much power each one drew at idle?
Would have been fun to throw a mac mini into the mix. Even a used M1 with "only" 16GB RAM is not bad when it comes to video processing and image editing. Gaming would suffer, obviously.
I want to see a company make a passively cooled AMD 680 unit. That would be golden!!
I have 7 external hard drives connected to my tower PC via a powered USB hub. If I switch to a mini-PC, can I safely connect my powered USB hub to this small device?
As far as the professional workload and the AS6 consuming "more" power. If you calculate the load out over the shorter amount of time that it has to run that load, it's actually still more efficient than the NUC. 26 min at 65W = 1.69kW total consumed vs. 18 min at 72W = 1.29 kW consumed. If Reece had to render something while on battery backup, better to get it done faster and be done sooner before it shuts down IMO.
If you do the math/science, then please do it properly. W and kW is a unit of power, not energy. The intel NUC consumes 28 Wh (not 1.69 kW) to do the job, while the AMD consumes 21.6 Wh (not 1.29 kW). The calculation: 26 minutes is 1560 seconds. A device that consumes 65W of POWER during 1560 seconds, will consume 65 x 1560 = 101400 Ws (Watt-seconds) of ENERGY (which is 101400 J (Joules)). It's the energy that you need to pay for, not the wattage. 101400 Ws = 101400 /60 /60 = 28 Wh (Watt-hours) = 0.028 kWh (kilowatt-hours). Your conclusion is still correct. 🙂
I got a feeling that these mini PCs are going to be the future of basic home computer needs with the cost being reasonable, not great, but the powerful enough and taking up minimal space and using much less power. Think schools / universities/ grand parents etc that need basic needs and as mentioned, secured behind a monitor and sip power. But also can Dow your home videos, basic streaming needs, secondary home pc etc.🥰😇💪👍
How loud are they?
Those NUCs are pretty amazing.
What I want to see though, is a proper all AMD "NUC" with current gen dedicated GPU and proper cooling.
More or less a good gaming laptop without all the stuff that is needed in a laptop.
That should result in a pretty small and efficient machine.
dedicated gpu? you might as well just build a good sff.
A NUC is a 'mini PC'
So it's better to call it 'an all AMD mini PC'
@@alejandrocafe8238 Maybe. Mini PC spans a wider range of form factors while NUC, at least originally, were really small machines. Think Hades Canyon being the biggest. Though just as Intel invented it, they also ruined it with ever bigger NUCs.
@@doctorakiba5667The original NUC were significantly smaller than any SFF.
It's hard to name these things, because there is no established definition and everyone things of something else.
For example, for me, NUCs for me are in the 1-2l range while I consider SFF to be usually something like 8-12l.
Steam deck, Lenovo legion go, Asus ally.... AMD is killing it in the hand held marker. Intel and NVIDIA are sleeping
Also, if the power management unit is well designed, the more powerfull PC might draw less power! Since the power rating is measured at load!
Asus G20 for example has a fantastic power brick solution!
I'm glad Asus is taking over Intel NUC. Asus is the best when it comes to PC
Don't see the point of the full size ports on the back of the Geekom, when the intel could support display via the USB 4 ports.
imagine if laptop gpus were also used here but with the appropriate form factor and with the same wattage as base counterparts
The Minisforum HX80G/90G/99G models all come with a Radeon RX 6600M and they're scary good
There's a Chinese brand called Kingdel as well that does them, I have one. They put them in a really nice solid metal case.
you need to put the mac mini into the discussion. But nice windows focused window, about the time, windows gets to the level
"Today (July 18, 2023), Intel announced it has agreed to a term sheet with ASUS, a global technology solution provider, for an agreement to manufacture, sell and support the Next Unit of Compute (NUC) 10th to 13th generations systems product line, and to develop future NUC systems designs."
Cool beatdown, but for that price (750$) you should really get a new generation Ryzen APU...
Like the 7840HS (also 8c, 16t) with new generation 780M iGPU and 5600Mhz DDR5, MUCH faster
E.g. GTR7 7840HS is 790$
The ports on the Geekom are usb4 not Thunderbolt, admittedly both are 40GB but Thunderbolt has tighter minimum specs and performance is more consistent across devices in my experience.
TLDW: 700 dollar single board computer. NOT WORTH IT.
The hdmi 2.1 only does 4k @ 60hz? Uggh i was so hopeful.
I wonder the performance between the two on Plex transcoding
Does it work on games like Diablo 4, God of war 4, Elden ring, photoshop, Autocad, and revit?
And then FSR3 walked into the room
I hope fsr 3 helps this kind of small pc
How come all the AMD CPUs and devices are listing an MSRP price and then the “current” price is below Intel? Are they trying to buy the market? If we let them do this, they will jack up the prices when they become de facto standard.
I have a minisforum with ryzen 5 5600H cpu. Barebones was around 200$. Added 64gb ram and 2tb nvme for a total of 400$. On the minipc market, intel can't compete with AMD.
How does it compare to Mac m2 mini
That is a last gen AMD mini PC. Could have at least compared it to the same generation AMD part instead of a 2 year older part. The 7980U.
Too bad it's not available in Canada (yet!), this little box would fit the bill perfectly
It's USB 4, not thunderbolt 4
Geekom is a generation behind Minisforums on their AMD mini pc's
"all of the same connectivities..." while comparing 2 thunderbolt 4 vs 1 usb-c with DP alt... Sure. Ah! And not touching on multicore tasks. Very solid review lol
Is one and a half faster same as 50% faster?
would a NUC Phantom Canyon not be a better call if its for gaming?
No Quick Sync Video on the AMD CPU, non ? Apparently you can still get hardware transcoding working on SOME AMD silicon, but why take a chance if your primary use is for Plex or any other app that requires transcoding power. Just sayin'.
I still don’t know how a Kensington lock works.
You loop a metal thread wire though it like a bike lock.
Would have also liked to see the Beelink SER5 MAX in the 32GB of DDR4 and 1TB SSD configuration. As it also is a low power PC with the same specs as the NUC and GEEKOM AS 6 but for 499.99USD.
These are really cool devices. Imagine in 10-15 years, when the highest end gaming PCs are tiny and we're talking about how a PC this size only had a thousandth of the power, RAM and storage.
With a desktop and a gpu several times bigger than this whole box, this is a future I'd look forward to.
Lol this is only a 6000 series CPU. These are a year old. Let that sink in.
7000 series has been out for 4 months now.
Thanks
Idk if you told anyone +7 watts for 31% better render times the convo ends there its a no brainer.
I think beelink are going to release a 7945hx3d version ❤
could you not have limited the AS6 to only 65W max power somehow to make the comparision more 1:1? O.o
can't forgive intel for releasing a premium™ dual core 7th gen i7 for mobile laptop 😅, but they came for a second round with the "efficiency" E core™
Or I'd get gmktec 6800H/7735HS barebones for $300+ and souped the config on my own
32gb/1tb nvme shud be around $150+
Considering higher latency on ddr5 compare to ddr4 the ram is not 1.5x faster it actually is slower! Don’t get confused with bandwidth vs speed.
What's happening at 1:48-1:50 when you look off-screen to the left? What distracted you? Was it a cat? Or maybe an iguana?
And the intel a twitch giveaway, no?
You are doing great
Should compare them in watt hour
Question: how does cooling work with those things?? Dont they overheat pretty fast without any fans??
There is a fan, video just shows only underside of motherboard, CPU die with heatsink/fan is on other side.
a new background?
Reece is gonna be able to play genshin impact during load sheding
Nice change
So cool, you did a review on a generation old SFF computers compared to Minisforum or Beelink at cheaper prices ? OK
CPU performance for AMD are very very good. But OpenVINO provides some great features that help with running computer vision projects. Object detection and labeling. AMD currently is far behind than Intel.
If I did my math correct in the video rendering test the AS6, despite asking more power, used less energy then the NUC did.
There are no Thunderbolt ports on the geekom as6. No usb 4 ports either. Details matter.
Doing things 30% faster with 10% mode power draw means you did the same work by using up 24% less power
The mini PC market is exploding - it's definitely going to get better as folks can then get a portable PC-level of power, but with more upgrade options
They didnt leave the NUC game. I bought a Raptor Canyon this year (i7-13700k) and it's been a beast.
Intel did. But other companies like Asus carries on building NUCs.
@@catchnkill I bought mine directly from Intel. I see though this decision is only as recently as July.