"You may think that, but, remember, they were not BORN under the stars as your people were. In fact, from the perspective of their homeworlds, the star alignments mean a different story. Heck, they weren't born in the same year. So, how can you judge them based on different universal perspectives?" Basically, use their same methodology against them.
If i remember properly, the Captain actually did argue that(and the video here actually reiterates it a bit) at one point, but it was dismissed as the leader refused to see any other perspective but their own societies. And he also said he wouldnt want to be a part of such a system that didnt believe what they believed. Epitome of 'dont care if it's true, i just believe it' mentality.
There was a really easy way for them to get out of this. "Oh no it's not like that with us because we're born on different planets different Stars rule our births, "
They, like the Moclans refuse to see through other people’s perspectives. Even if it was said they would likely believe that once a Gelliac entered their solar system the Gelliac star would influence them negatively. Belief systems supercede logic.
I mean if you think you have found the definitive absolute truth about the galaxy. Then it logically stems that anyone more advanced than you would come to the same conclusion.
Let's see. Vulcans humans orions trill heck even humans and Klingons can interbreed. To make things even more interesting apparently one of the oldest S/S species came from earth millions of years ago. Seriously much early Sci Fi was insanely racist.
That's... That's exactly what humans do, like, RIGHT NOW. Humanity has been sending messages into space for decades now, but if aliens were to show up, I'm pretty sure humans would nuke them if they were too different.
This is why I liked Sisko on DS9. He wouldn’t have played these stupid philosophical games. He would just say, “give me back my people or I start nuking your planet.”
@redes9529 no they position and alignment would be different because they belive it's the position of the stars connected to that planet based on the whole c-section issue. So on another planet thier star alignment would be different. So in alpha centauri a Gemini would be born in our capercorn
But they weren't born on that planet and are possibly in a different galaxy altogether then the one they were born on so the position of the stars would be completely different
Man if I were talking to someone from a civilization literally thousands of years more advanced and knowledgeable and they were telling me that I’m objectively wrong, I might consider that they might be right.
Have you never heard of the Nobel effect? People we considered genius can believe pretty dumb shit. Always question everything but not in an arrogant way.
@@anna.owo. True but like I said, Captain Mercer is pointing out that their entire society is based on falsities and he’s rejecting it. Even in a hypothetical, he wound change anything despite knowing its bs because of public outcry.
Except, the be objectively wrong. Because ethics isn’t objective. But, that’s why we have global wars, to see which culture and system of ethics can stand against others.
What I don't get, it that Kelly and bortus were born on different planets under different stars, so wouldn't that mean they weren't technically Giliacs
They're technically born at the same time though, like if someone gives birth on a Monday in China and someone also gives birth on a Tuesday but at in the US They're practically born at the same time but in different timezones and hence dates, they're registered to be born a day apart
Attributing someone’s entire self-worth based roughly upon when someone’s parents got laid… I think that’s pretty stupid. But youd think at this point people would stop having sex at certain months instead of C-sectioning the babies.
Actually thus does happen, in Japan and probably China the sign of the fire horse is said to be a bad wife, so birthrate in this one year goes down every time due to fear of having a daughter who's potentially partner might decline her just because of their sign
That requires using math to determine the approximate birthday of your kids. I mean that's why my older sister's birthday is 2 days after mine (Or mine is 2 days before hers) But Math requires logic
Personally I beleve any celestial(divine) beings are managerial and janitorial because I think their only cares are about making the reality they exist in persists through out time, aka no God of any merit gives a damn about man or woman, if they exist they would be completely separated from all normal classes of life forms, they also would be completely inconceivable as a form of life, like they would instead of being peaple you can interact with they would be energies and rules that manipulate and controll reality itself... but my belief in this is more loose as I know theirs no real way to prove it but if it's actually true then it would be like thinking things like gravity has sentience hence I don't just beleve it as fact but more closely a question, on how much of this random chaos was not by chance... Aka I beleve if anything with the power of a God exists, we will be forever beyond its notice
@@cberger3558 I could make a pretty compelling pseudo science explanation for why that could be the case but honestly I could not be bothered to even if you pay me.
They brought this up in the episode. The people in charge basically told the captain he can’t take any hostile actions whatsoever because it would be in violation of the laws involving planets reaching that stage of advancement. They had to go about freeing them a different way.
There would be absolutely no way they could become an advanced society if they took astrology that seriously. There’d have been wars and dozens of violent revolutions before they could reach the stars
@@Galdenberry_Lamphuck I you got in contact with a new society, you can make absolutely no assumptions. We have a ton of weird quirks in our society as well, we just don't notice them, because they are normal to us. On the flip-side, we tend to assume that all the things we have figured out in the past, are so exceedingly obvious, that everyone must have come to the same conclusion. It's pretty much impossible to separate traditions and society on a purely reason-based approach, because the history of a society plays a huge role in that development. Imagine if world war 2 never happened. We might have set entirely diffetent priorities and live in a completely different society today. Just as an example.
The old dude has the wrong perspective. Thei home worlds have diffrent stars, different constalations, different astrological signs. Their "Zodiac" is a different Zodiac.
You can accept reality as it is or not, but that doesn't change the fact that it is what it is. And if any of you are wondering, yes, you seem just as ridiculous to us and especially the young earth creationists.
How do they know that their calendar matches the calendar used by the Orville crew? Like a day or a year on one planet can be significantly different based on size of planet and rotation around given sun
"Maybe i do believe life is chaos, and insignificant, and random. But that doesnt mean i dont believe it to be beautiful. Just because something is insignificant, doesnt mean it lacks meaning. Just because something is random, doesnt mean its not educational. Your assertion that a chaotic, insignificant, random life is inherently bad is flawed as it is offensive."
Dude could be silenced with one ultimatum; “either play ball with the rest of the galaxy or the rest of the galaxy is gonna destroy your ball” pretty simple. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Honestly after the dude says he believes the stars position more than a persons actions that would have been enough proof for me to call an orbital strike on his ass.
Ignoring the astrology thing, the dude did have a point. Even if he didn't believe in that system, his entire society does, and releasing them could cause massive riots and mayhem
“I wouldn’t want to live in a society that believes the universe is chaos.” So, you’d rather live in a fantasy world than accept the truth. That says volumes of your character.
The only reason there would be proof is because they make it so. Treating people like nothing if there born on a spacific day. They made there own monsters
Well, there is a human precedent for that actually. In the Chinese calender, 1966 was the year of the fire horse, and women born that year were...well...__'According to superstition, fire horse women are said to have troubled marriages, to mistreat men, and to cause early deaths for their husbands and fathers.__ So they tried to either not give birth during that period, or they simply faked their birth-year on the birth certificate, so these women would not be shunned for being born that year.
When you send an invitation to any organic or mechanical lifeform to learn your ways, and they say the universe doesn’t dictate your way of thinking and therefore your way is considered primitive: "Impossible!"
@@Hakar17 That’s always been the one rational reason for why I think people embrace astrology. The time of year you are born affects the sequence in which you experience life.
@@mingthan7028 oh, no doubt. One’s birthdate certainly doesn’t dictate events throughout their life or anything like that. Just saying the season one comes of age could have a marginal impact on their personality and explain why the star signs have unique personalities. Just a theory.
I don't think people seem to get it in the comments. You're trying to rationalize the logic of their bigotry, when bigotry in and of itself is irrational. That's the whole point of this, this is what racism is even if you're 100% right their hatred supersedes any kind of logic.
@@coreypharveyable It was mostly a joke. 😅 But nearly all the Gemini I meet have been terrible. Two that stick out in my memory are my abusive stepdad and my old bully.
No, that's just how most civilisations think. The idea of an entire society based on astrology is actually really cool and original. And if I'm being honest that ST episode was mid
@@Casterspellproductions so your saying all who are born gemini should be jailed because our dual nature, or all aries and taurus born because of their inherient violent nature. If you had watched the episode and other shows that have touched on astrology based societies have shown how quickly and inhumanely they become.
Before you judge him, he's believed this his entire life. He's been told this his entire life. He probably believes he sees what he's as evidence to his bias his entire life. People in real life are that way too. Racism I dont like, but I know that some people are racist not because they are bad people but they were taught bad things their entire life. But people think "it's easy, just stop" but that there is toxic thinking. The enemy of intolerance is compassion. *note, im.ignoring the whole fact that they need to rescue someone in the show and to do so they have to convince him.
And maybe there are biological differences that make these people affected by their horoscope. The Oroville aways does that. Putting a human filter over other species, saying that the others are wrong and their way is the only right one
Another thought, Orville is saying that because they sent messages into universe they must accept other cultures! Uno reverse then those cultures and the Orville should be more open minded towards them. Just saying it's kinda works both ways.
I may not have seen this show but it seems like the leader took Orville crew or people he knows. So whyshould he respect that leader when people he knows are threatened, that just from what I heard
I mean sure, but the people there previously captured two Orville crew members and imprisoned them. Plus they literally send them to a prison concentration camp later.
If you drop all the events in the episode then sure... but they are forcing their beliefs on the Orville crew and captured 2 of their members. If they want to not partake in the galactic community due to "Gilliacs" being accepted there then so be it. But don't go capturing members of that community and expect the other side to not want them back or judge you for taking them
So they should accept their citizens being jailed for. . . A birthday? Ok so you accept and embrace honor killings since its a part of another persons culture and we shouldnt disagree? Same thing
@@hadiisaboss5307....you mean the fascists who wanted to be exterminate anyone who wasn't exactly the same as they were. Pretty damn fucking sure the vast majority of cultures on Earth are better than a group that advocates for literal genocide and blood purity.
Think what you want. When you start treating people differently based on baseless thoughts, then it’s an issue. You don’t have rights to anyone or anything other than your own body. And a government’s role is just to make sure that always stays. Corporations don’t abuse power and essentially enslave people. And everyone is giving the opportunity to stay alive and seek happiness. So we all become better
Chaos and order is one coin, chaos is seen differently throughout different people what chaos is to you is order to others, and if people want to accept galactic exploration they have to accept its chaos within it to have somewhat of an order
It’s not about want it’s about logic and not basing your hate off of nothing. That’s how I would have followed up anyway. I gotta watch this series the bits I find are weirdly deep and comedic at the same time. This is both a jab at astrology but brings up neat discussions about the concept of belief.
He said it best when he admitted he wouldn't want to live in a chaotic, unordered universe. They enjoy the "peace of mind" of having everything ordained and determined for them. Logic doesn't come into the equation to them.
That's precisely how the universe works, no one thing happens because it's meant to happen. Those who try to establish order to the cosmos are left behind while it changes. One should spend time not assigning something to something that's completely unrelated, but understanding what has happened to turn something into what it is now.
It’s not that they believe the universe is chaos. It’s controlled chaos. The man just sees the universe on one color. Maybe just grey, instead of the countless hues of colors that are possible.
I have never watched this TV series, but perhaps the crew of the Orville should consider why the Zodiac is so important to an entire species? Yes, the Orville has the right to protect their ship and crew from hostile people. But I doubt, that they are there to antagonize the local leaders. This scene is akin to foreigners asking why mainland Chinese people eat strange foods. Or asking why the Japanese insist on sitting in the formal "seiza," position (which is very uncomfortable btw). Or why are Asians are so racist to each other?
Isnt the recommendation procedure for encounters like these to “meet them as they are”? Like try and understand and communicate/convince them from the same position/logic they’re coming from?
Bigots don't have consistent logic or reason. You cannot debate a fascist because the fascist doesn't even see you as a person. They are brainwashed to twist and refocus every conversation into one that confirms their bias. You cannot debate with a fascist.
Religious zealotry, check. Unable to listen to reason, check. Obnoxious to debate, check. I had no idea the Orville had a episode on modern christians.
This is one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard on both sides. This show took a lot of liberties with strawman fallacies. When you get to control the argument on both sides and make one look as crazy as possible all the sudden normally irrational argument starts slightly rational.
Ye they were worng in this, its kind of ironic since they are a group that is trying to be kind to all cultures, they only have a problem with it because it's them getting affected by it
They could have forced his cooperation by explaining the consequences of his actions. They joined the rest of the Galaxy and then immediately committed an act of war. Depending on the race they offend, this mindset could lead to his own planets destruction, imprisonment, or even enslavement. He basically painted a target on the backs of his people. Some leader huh?
Honestly they were terrible at communicating with these people They just treated them like they were insane for believing in astrology like that They should have explained that different planets have different astrology and the stars can have different effects on earthlings You don't fight insanity with logic you fight insanity with logical insanity
They should have just told them ok then, release these guys, and close your boards to everyone else because this type of thinking will cause you to have a all out war with other planets
BASED guy in the grey suit. Not about the giliac thing but about the atheism thing. Replace whatever beleif system they have and Christianity, and youve got my vote
![Yeat & Quavo - 5BRAZY [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4XxnTAwyxus/mqdefault.jpg)
"You may think that, but, remember, they were not BORN under the stars as your people were. In fact, from the perspective of their homeworlds, the star alignments mean a different story. Heck, they weren't born in the same year. So, how can you judge them based on different universal perspectives?" Basically, use their same methodology against them.
I was thinking the same
Yes, _weaponized stupidity._
Use whatever weapons your enemies give you.
This is definitely the move.
If i remember properly, the Captain actually did argue that(and the video here actually reiterates it a bit) at one point, but it was dismissed as the leader refused to see any other perspective but their own societies. And he also said he wouldnt want to be a part of such a system that didnt believe what they believed. Epitome of 'dont care if it's true, i just believe it' mentality.
Plus it's pretty much impossible for that planet to have the same constellations as Earth seeing as it is thousands of light years away
There was a really easy way for them to get out of this. "Oh no it's not like that with us because we're born on different planets different Stars rule our births, "
Exactly!
They tried that, it didn't work. The old guy wouldn't see beyond his own society's teachings.
No one this radical will listen to reason
They, like the Moclans refuse to see through other people’s perspectives. Even if it was said they would likely believe that once a Gelliac entered their solar system the Gelliac star would influence them negatively. Belief systems supercede logic.
@@transsnackYeah. The fact he basically tells the audience he "sees" it everyday should be the bigger sign.
So u contact the universe thinking everyone is going to be the same.
I mean if you think you have found the definitive absolute truth about the galaxy. Then it logically stems that anyone more advanced than you would come to the same conclusion.
@@jkdragonjk6895 but he is not like is posible but he 100 sure. His civilization start a war and die
Let's see. Vulcans humans orions trill heck even humans and Klingons can interbreed. To make things even more interesting apparently one of the oldest S/S species came from earth millions of years ago. Seriously much early Sci Fi was insanely racist.
I mean, that’s what we did
That's... That's exactly what humans do, like, RIGHT NOW. Humanity has been sending messages into space for decades now, but if aliens were to show up, I'm pretty sure humans would nuke them if they were too different.
This is why I liked Sisko on DS9. He wouldn’t have played these stupid philosophical games. He would just say, “give me back my people or I start nuking your planet.”
Yes!!!!
The position of the stars would be different from the homeland of the people they are talking about. So they couldn't be the gilliak thing
They would be gilliak on that planet though
@redes9529 no they position and alignment would be different because they belive it's the position of the stars connected to that planet based on the whole c-section issue. So on another planet thier star alignment would be different. So in alpha centauri a Gemini would be born in our capercorn
@@redes9529 Even if they are born on the same planet, the stars move. There should be a measurable continuous change in outcomes if it was all true.
But they weren't born on that planet and are possibly in a different galaxy altogether then the one they were born on so the position of the stars would be completely different
That is literally my freaking point. What are you arguing that is different to my position?
Man if I were talking to someone from a civilization literally thousands of years more advanced and knowledgeable and they were telling me that I’m objectively wrong, I might consider that they might be right.
If we had aliens come and say Jesus wasn't real, people would deny
It's not about fact but faith
He did. When he said even if I let them go. It would be national outrage.
Have you never heard of the Nobel effect? People we considered genius can believe pretty dumb shit. Always question everything but not in an arrogant way.
@@anna.owo. True but like I said, Captain Mercer is pointing out that their entire society is based on falsities and he’s rejecting it. Even in a hypothetical, he wound change anything despite knowing its bs because of public outcry.
Except, the be objectively wrong. Because ethics isn’t objective. But, that’s why we have global wars, to see which culture and system of ethics can stand against others.
Them: We treat a group horribly for something outside their control and they hate us for it. Clearly their fault!
Politicians be like
What I don't get, it that Kelly and bortus were born on different planets under different stars, so wouldn't that mean they weren't technically Giliacs
You’re trying to understand insanity with logic. Might as well go looking for darkness with a flashlight.
@@rvolcano7338 that would actually be pretty easy.... It's called shadow puppets lol
But I do understand your point
As many who have mention this before. They did try to argue that point and he still didn’t listen.
They're technically born at the same time though, like if someone gives birth on a Monday in China and someone also gives birth on a Tuesday but at in the US
They're practically born at the same time but in different timezones and hence dates, they're registered to be born a day apart
They probably dont even realize the stars in constellations aren't(in most places) actually in close proximity.
Attributing someone’s entire self-worth based roughly upon when someone’s parents got laid… I think that’s pretty stupid.
But youd think at this point people would stop having sex at certain months instead of C-sectioning the babies.
And you’d think people nowadays who didn’t want babies wouldn’t have sex but funny how humans are stupid like that
Actually thus does happen, in Japan and probably China the sign of the fire horse is said to be a bad wife, so birthrate in this one year goes down every time due to fear of having a daughter who's potentially partner might decline her just because of their sign
That's fucking insane.
That requires using math to determine the approximate birthday of your kids.
I mean that's why my older sister's birthday is 2 days after mine (Or mine is 2 days before hers)
But Math requires logic
Bro thinks as if the Cosmos cares for people's feeling
Personally I beleve any celestial(divine) beings are managerial and janitorial because I think their only cares are about making the reality they exist in persists through out time, aka no God of any merit gives a damn about man or woman, if they exist they would be completely separated from all normal classes of life forms, they also would be completely inconceivable as a form of life, like they would instead of being peaple you can interact with they would be energies and rules that manipulate and controll reality itself... but my belief in this is more loose as I know theirs no real way to prove it but if it's actually true then it would be like thinking things like gravity has sentience hence I don't just beleve it as fact but more closely a question, on how much of this random chaos was not by chance...
Aka I beleve if anything with the power of a God exists, we will be forever beyond its notice
A lot of people think that irl😂
I don't even care about people's feelings, why the hell would the cosmos
Lol
@@cberger3558 I could make a pretty compelling pseudo science explanation for why that could be the case but honestly I could not be bothered to even if you pay me.
Then let them suffer for their ignorance.
They couldn't just do that. Two of their captains were in prison on their planet simply for being born on a certain day
I would just give them a warning: Give back my crew or be annihilated from space
The most forward answer "give them back or prepare to have your world glassed"
Ah a fan of the Covenant method of diplomacy
@@EVER_PRINCEhey it is effective
They brought this up in the episode. The people in charge basically told the captain he can’t take any hostile actions whatsoever because it would be in violation of the laws involving planets reaching that stage of advancement. They had to go about freeing them a different way.
@@EVER_PRINCEi mean they don't give shit about arresting other people not from theirs and probably off them. It's only natural you off threats
There would be absolutely no way they could become an advanced society if they took astrology that seriously. There’d have been wars and dozens of violent revolutions before they could reach the stars
For being trained in contacting new societies, they suck at diplomacy quite a lot.
That's because they are using logic and reason against someone who lacks it.
@@Galdenberry_Lamphuck I you got in contact with a new society, you can make absolutely no assumptions. We have a ton of weird quirks in our society as well, we just don't notice them, because they are normal to us. On the flip-side, we tend to assume that all the things we have figured out in the past, are so exceedingly obvious, that everyone must have come to the same conclusion. It's pretty much impossible to separate traditions and society on a purely reason-based approach, because the history of a society plays a huge role in that development. Imagine if world war 2 never happened. We might have set entirely diffetent priorities and live in a completely different society today. Just as an example.
@@Galdenberry_Lamphuckwow so only my way or the highway approach i see
The old dude has the wrong perspective. Thei home worlds have diffrent stars, different constalations, different astrological signs. Their "Zodiac" is a different Zodiac.
Yeah, and they all don't matter
@@zechariah22 oh astrology is complete horse shit no matter how you look at it, but when arguing about horse shit you gotta throw shit back at them.
Orville comedically trashing zodiac sign nuts
This is my favorite episode and me and my family will regularly walk onto a room, call each other “Jilliac Trash,” and leave.
This world would be a teen moms paradise
You can accept reality as it is or not, but that doesn't change the fact that it is what it is. And if any of you are wondering, yes, you seem just as ridiculous to us and especially the young earth creationists.
How do they know that their calendar matches the calendar used by the Orville crew? Like a day or a year on one planet can be significantly different based on size of planet and rotation around given sun
The guy kinda sounds like Doctor Breen from Half Life 2
"Maybe i do believe life is chaos, and insignificant, and random. But that doesnt mean i dont believe it to be beautiful. Just because something is insignificant, doesnt mean it lacks meaning. Just because something is random, doesnt mean its not educational.
Your assertion that a chaotic, insignificant, random life is inherently bad is flawed as it is offensive."
Words like that is how you get a giant force field put around your planet😂😂😂
Dude could be silenced with one ultimatum; “either play ball with the rest of the galaxy or the rest of the galaxy is gonna destroy your ball” pretty simple. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
Honestly after the dude says he believes the stars position more than a persons actions that would have been enough proof for me to call an orbital strike on his ass.
An episode roasting zodiac believers.
Ignoring the astrology thing, the dude did have a point. Even if he didn't believe in that system, his entire society does, and releasing them could cause massive riots and mayhem
“I wouldn’t want to live in a society that believes the universe is chaos.” So, you’d rather live in a fantasy world than accept the truth. That says volumes of your character.
Well he wouldn't be allowed to imprison people he dislikes or demand abortions if he accepted the Universe doesn't care.
The only reason there would be proof is because they make it so. Treating people like nothing if there born on a spacific day. They made there own monsters
Well, there is a human precedent for that actually. In the Chinese calender, 1966 was the year of the fire horse, and women born that year were...well...__'According to superstition, fire horse women are said to have troubled marriages, to mistreat men, and to cause early deaths for their husbands and fathers.__
So they tried to either not give birth during that period, or they simply faked their birth-year on the birth certificate, so these women would not be shunned for being born that year.
When you send an invitation to any organic or mechanical lifeform to learn your ways, and they say the universe doesn’t dictate your way of thinking and therefore your way is considered primitive: "Impossible!"
Of everything is chaos. Order only happens because we decide it should.
It doesnt matter if you want to or not. Thats the way things are, and thats the way they will be.
Lol things are constantly changing bud
What
Can you please elaborate on your position a little more? I genuinely can't tell whose opinion you're advocating for.
It is what ot is but what it is is bullshit
Sounds like colonialism
Does the climate in which the mother lives while the child is in the womb have an effect on the personality???
Kind of because culture is affected by the climate and culture effects ones outlook as they grow up.
@@Hakar17 That’s always been the one rational reason for why I think people embrace astrology. The time of year you are born affects the sequence in which you experience life.
@@GrizzlyTank Perhaps
A Fallacy
@@GrizzlyTank
@@mingthan7028 oh, no doubt. One’s birthdate certainly doesn’t dictate events throughout their life or anything like that. Just saying the season one comes of age could have a marginal impact on their personality and explain why the star signs have unique personalities. Just a theory.
"Judged them by their actions" yeah and say that to real life politicians 😂😂
I don't think people seem to get it in the comments. You're trying to rationalize the logic of their bigotry, when bigotry in and of itself is irrational. That's the whole point of this, this is what racism is even if you're 100% right their hatred supersedes any kind of logic.
Sounds like exterminatus to me
No dude..., in their universe is "Launch torpedos!"...
Astrology getting heat in this one 😂
As it deserves.
All pseudosciences deserve to get all the heat.
This is what religion would look like if Astrology took over.
There's no unsorted chaos, because to me, it's been orchestrated and designed that way.
It's like I'm hearing a debate about how "Knowing how zodiac signs says about people"
Now listen, I don't like Geminis either, but that doesn't mean they should suffer unfairly
😢 damn...Gemini aren't that bad
@@coreypharveyable It was mostly a joke. 😅
But nearly all the Gemini I meet have been terrible. Two that stick out in my memory are my abusive stepdad and my old bully.
This is ripped off of a episode of TNG were there religion is based off there planet being the centre of the universe.
Congradulation, that episode was based of human history.
Hey guess what? The Orville is a comedy, parody.
@MarioFlynnCr33 and still better star trek than discovery 😂
No, that's just how most civilisations think. The idea of an entire society based on astrology is actually really cool and original. And if I'm being honest that ST episode was mid
@@Casterspellproductions so your saying all who are born gemini should be jailed because our dual nature, or all aries and taurus born because of their inherient violent nature. If you had watched the episode and other shows that have touched on astrology based societies have shown how quickly and inhumanely they become.
The diss on astrologers and theists is pretty well done
Captain Mercer : looks like you've chose to live alone
Yes how dare emotional intelligence and empathy be exercised
Before you judge him, he's believed this his entire life. He's been told this his entire life. He probably believes he sees what he's as evidence to his bias his entire life.
People in real life are that way too. Racism I dont like, but I know that some people are racist not because they are bad people but they were taught bad things their entire life. But people think "it's easy, just stop" but that there is toxic thinking.
The enemy of intolerance is compassion.
*note, im.ignoring the whole fact that they need to rescue someone in the show and to do so they have to convince him.
“We judge people by their actions, not their birthdates.” Clearly she’s never heard of the star sign people.
"Why are you defending them?"
"Because they're part of my crew."
"Ah. Right. Keep forgetting about that."
What season and episode
That's stupid. They are trying to debunk their belief system
instead of using that belief system to take their friends out of jail
And maybe there are biological differences that make these people affected by their horoscope.
The Oroville aways does that. Putting a human filter over other species, saying that the others are wrong and their way is the only right one
Every clip I've seen of this show is just "my race believes in this and it's our way. You're the wrong one"
4:48 wrong, DOM and Boom are on good terms and this was just a reference of DOM’s multiverse series and the beef drama from awhile back.
Another thought, Orville is saying that because they sent messages into universe they must accept other cultures! Uno reverse then those cultures and the Orville should be more open minded towards them. Just saying it's kinda works both ways.
Ah, the paradox of tolerance
I may not have seen this show but it seems like the leader took Orville crew or people he knows. So whyshould he respect that leader when people he knows are threatened, that just from what I heard
I mean sure, but the people there previously captured two Orville crew members and imprisoned them. Plus they literally send them to a prison concentration camp later.
If you drop all the events in the episode then sure... but they are forcing their beliefs on the Orville crew and captured 2 of their members.
If they want to not partake in the galactic community due to "Gilliacs" being accepted there then so be it.
But don't go capturing members of that community and expect the other side to not want them back or judge you for taking them
So they should accept their citizens being jailed for. . . A birthday? Ok so you accept and embrace honor killings since its a part of another persons culture and we shouldnt disagree? Same thing
I love that this show provides the idea that not all cultures or beliefs are equally good.
Yeah they're not? Would you say the 1940s German culture was as good as yours
@@hadiisaboss5307....you mean the fascists who wanted to be exterminate anyone who wasn't exactly the same as they were. Pretty damn fucking sure the vast majority of cultures on Earth are better than a group that advocates for literal genocide and blood purity.
You know....they kinda should do a bit of reserch into the planets they are visiting before hand
What i can't figure out is how they became so advanced with such a stupid belief influencing there society.
Gilad and tanagra... when the walls fell.
Sokath his eyes open
@@pokemontrainerharry9744 Yes !
He the person who goes to another country and ask why they dont speak English
Think what you want. When you start treating people differently based on baseless thoughts, then it’s an issue. You don’t have rights to anyone or anything other than your own body. And a government’s role is just to make sure that always stays.
Corporations don’t abuse power and essentially enslave people. And everyone is giving the opportunity to stay alive and seek happiness. So we all become better
Chaos and order is one coin, chaos is seen differently throughout different people what chaos is to you is order to others, and if people want to accept galactic exploration they have to accept its chaos within it to have somewhat of an order
One of the writers get rejected for being a _Giliac?_ 🤔
How do the astrology women feel about this episode?
“THEYRE JITLYANGS!”
That wall decoration is from worfs quarters
Arguing with someone who believes in horoscopes 😂
Reminded of how japan did the same thing with blood types. They used to and some still do think that your personality is dictated by blood type.
It’s not about want it’s about logic and not basing your hate off of nothing. That’s how I would have followed up anyway. I gotta watch this series the bits I find are weirdly deep and comedic at the same time. This is both a jab at astrology but brings up neat discussions about the concept of belief.
He said it best when he admitted he wouldn't want to live in a chaotic, unordered universe. They enjoy the "peace of mind" of having everything ordained and determined for them. Logic doesn't come into the equation to them.
No matter how advanced a civilization is it can still be primitive
Wouldn't want to live with people that think like that? No, you're already imprisoning those among your own...
That's precisely how the universe works, no one thing happens because it's meant to happen. Those who try to establish order to the cosmos are left behind while it changes. One should spend time not assigning something to something that's completely unrelated, but understanding what has happened to turn something into what it is now.
this just got me thinkin what if a star in a constellation dies, how does that affect people born under that sign
It’s not that they believe the universe is chaos. It’s controlled chaos. The man just sees the universe on one color. Maybe just grey, instead of the countless hues of colors that are possible.
I have never watched this TV series, but perhaps the crew of the Orville should consider why the Zodiac is so important to an entire species?
Yes, the Orville has the right to protect their ship and crew from hostile people.
But I doubt, that they are there to antagonize the local leaders.
This scene is akin to foreigners asking why mainland Chinese people eat strange foods. Or asking why the Japanese insist on sitting in the formal "seiza," position (which is very uncomfortable btw). Or why are Asians are so racist to each other?
None of this is real and the old guy is wrong and right. The universe isn't just chaos. There is order to the universe.
Yeah, I now agree that old Alara is better
Religious fanatics, same here same there
Does anyone know what episode this was?
Isnt the recommendation procedure for encounters like these to “meet them as they are”? Like try and understand and communicate/convince them from the same position/logic they’re coming from?
Bigots don't have consistent logic or reason.
You cannot debate a fascist because the fascist doesn't even see you as a person. They are brainwashed to twist and refocus every conversation into one that confirms their bias.
You cannot debate with a fascist.
Constantly breaking the prime directive.
Star Trek Federation would be mad.
The confirmation bias is crazy 💀
This guy sounds like an astrology girl
this Saturn energy is ruining my day
bro who the hell is youuu
Guess they haven't read HP Lovecraft about what chaos truly is 😂
Having Life is chaos. All mankind is Giliac, by nature
Religious zealotry, check. Unable to listen to reason, check. Obnoxious to debate, check. I had no idea the Orville had a episode on modern christians.
This is one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard on both sides. This show took a lot of liberties with strawman fallacies. When you get to control the argument on both sides and make one look as crazy as possible all the sudden normally irrational argument starts slightly rational.
The astrology lovers would love it on thst planet
Called out the star racism of people who do zodiacs and astrology.
"Release him or get vaporized from hornit by our alien tech.
Do you feel like gamblin?"
Sometimes It's just that easy
Ye they were worng in this, its kind of ironic since they are a group that is trying to be kind to all cultures, they only have a problem with it because it's them getting affected by it
This episode aired with mercury in retrograde so that’s probably why the message is off maybe they buy it some healing stones
They could have forced his cooperation by explaining the consequences of his actions. They joined the rest of the Galaxy and then immediately committed an act of war. Depending on the race they offend, this mindset could lead to his own planets destruction, imprisonment, or even enslavement. He basically painted a target on the backs of his people. Some leader huh?
My response would be very simple, you are uninvited from the galaxy, give us back our people now, or you'll be uninvited from existence too
I can solve this with Federation diplomacy.
"Give me back my damned crew or i glass your planet from orbit and leave ONLY giliacs alive."
Send this episode to any woman that thinks horoscopes are neat.
Honestly they were terrible at communicating with these people
They just treated them like they were insane for believing in astrology like that
They should have explained that different planets have different astrology and the stars can have different effects on earthlings
You don't fight insanity with logic you fight insanity with logical insanity
What episode is this
They should have just told them ok then, release these guys, and close your boards to everyone else because this type of thinking will cause you to have a all out war with other planets
BASED guy in the grey suit. Not about the giliac thing but about the atheism thing. Replace whatever beleif system they have and Christianity, and youve got my vote