It's a Twilight Zone episode. It should have ended with Rod Serling going "The USS Voyager... or what's left of it. Floating through space. Their mission becoming a futile and tragic gesture.Trying desperately to leave... The Twilight Zone."
Tom: for all you know the real Harry Kim is having Sunday dinner with his family Real Harry kim: *floating in the deep dark of space 50,000 LY from voyager* Remeber the episode where voyager was duplicated but shared the same fuel source
@@TheBrokenMadManOf course Harry can't escape his fate even in the sweet embrace of death. Bet he just loved being turned into a zombie "kid" by those weirdos.
@@JounLord1 he came around to it when he learned he could be with Lyndsay again and that his other self became a Captain with a good career and legacy.
@@sigiligusAnd now i'm picturing the Delta Quadrant being threatened with hundrets of Evil Janeways. Destroy one Voyager to save yourself from Janeway and then two more appear, offering their help 😈
I get the feeling that at this point in the show there were elements of the writing staff that threw their hands in the air with:- “who the heck cares”
@@ThomasFishwick When they finally stopped giving a fuck, ironically that's when they got superb. Some of the later Voyager episodes are some of my most favorite Star Trek episodes of any series.
My problem with the time capsule is.....shove it out an airlock or cargo bay. You don't need to launch it like a probe where it can get crushed by bulkheads melting on it.
The typical problem with torpedoes too. When you need them most the launchers tend to fail ... but since the torpedoes are self-propelled you also only need to get them out somehow. I guess that goes on the same list as ALL transporters failing at once and nobody thinking about the ones on the shuttles, which should at least in some situations solve the problem.
I've always thought this episode is a superb one. We get enough of these characters and their lives to feel the ending. And I like the writers fully committed to the tragedy of said ending and didn't do a convenient save by the real Voyager. Real Janeway's minimal entry about what we know was a crew who had achieved so much and fought so hard to survive makes the kick to the feels even more hard. There's also a couple of nice touches. The fact the duplicate Voyager had designed a new warp drive that was better than the real one and was a long way ahead shows the duplicate crew were inventive, resourceful and brilliant. I do like the "Krenim tried to recruit Voyager" line, a little titbit that suggests Duplicate Voyager had it's own dose of fun in that region. I think 7 out 10 is a bit low, for Voyager this is an 8 or 9, and that's accounting for the inconsistencies from Demon.
This feels like an episode that should have been a recurring subplot. Imagine having several episodes where things happen that didn't quite make sense. It seemed like the continuity wasn't being followed, and I know how laughable that is for voyager, the way it should be. Only for it to finally be revealed that this was the wrong crew.
I like this, though the only problem with that is the same issue Dallas faced when an entire season turned out to be a dream. One episode can work as a twist, several and it needs to end with at least some consequences continuing on to the original Voyager crew.
That's a great idea! Too add to your idea, this could have been an extended subplot. Think of a few episodes sprinkled with their mission to reach the distress call. The mystery remains, but we see it grow over that time. Cool idea!
@@drockjr Goddammit, now I'm going to be disappointed we'll never get the CGI adventures of the Quicksilver Clone Voyager crew TV show produced by the Prodigy people
@@CanobyYes, but there was a zero percent chance of that ever happening. I mean Paramount wanted Voyager to be like TNG in the way that you could watch episodes in any order without getting confused as what is going on now. VOY had only a few things changing over time, like Seven replacing Kes and Tom's and B'Elanna's relationship. No huge changes of the status quo like on DS9. So having multiple episodes where we follow the fake crew would have never been possible, as interesting as it could have been.
It's interesting that the crew made of liquid metal goo is way more competent than the real crew. Well, except for Neelix, who wants them to hang out with sex crickets in liquid argon.
I heard about this one from Linkara. He described it roughly as if this crew were sacrificial lambs. Paying the price for all the times the actual crew got off the hook.
It is truly and entirely reasonable to ask how exactly the silver blood was capable of becoming antimatter for the ships warp reaction. This episode definitely had it's issues.. many, many issues, but... well.. actually that's all
I always liked this episode, despite the fact it doesn't make sense. My favorite part is the Silver blood Harry being the last one standing; he was the first of their kind, so it's poetic he was the last.
I’m the type of person that always steers toward happy endings. I can appreciate tragedies that are written well and will remember them fondly but I’m rarely drawn into one if I know it’s a tragedy before hand. I think. This is overall one of the better written episodes of voyager, which I think was a show that was well below the other series of the 80s -2000s. That said, the thing that really bothered me about this episode from all the way back when I first saw it was the complete lack of any consequences for the (actual) crew of voyager, Janeway especially. I didn’t need the beacon to have somehow been received, I didn’t need voyager to sweep in and save the duplicates or many of the other common complaints about how this episode ended. All that would have fixed it for me was some basic understanding of the voyager crew as to what they had come across. All I would have needed to have been satisfied at the end was for enough of trace to be left that Janeway realized who that ship was and her crew and have that “oh crap” moment of what she had done by allowing themselves to be duplicated. Of her comprehending that that sentient society they had seeded she had also sent on their course to being completely annihilated and there be some realization of just how badly she had screwed up by ignoring the prime directive in this case. Kate mulgrew is a great actress and a great choice as a captain in trek but the writing of her was absolutely atrocious on so many, many occasions. They caused a lot of trouble in their time on that show and Janeway rarely faced any real consequences for her near infinite supply of bad decisions. That’s the real tragedy of this episode to me.
Another minor point, if the "real" Voyager had gotten that log buoy they might have found out how to get home in two years. But at least Harry got to be captain (if only by default).
-I agree. Harry should have saved the painstick joke for the best man speech at the reception. Those kind of jokes are the whole point of that speech. -I disagree. I like your smartmouth. It makes even boring episodes more fun to watch. In fact, your smartmouth works best when in cynical mode over a boring or ridiculous episode. I can't resist allowing my smartmouth free reign, when I'm able (and sometimes when I'm not). There has to be smart mouth in every group or the cynical would never survive. Don't be ashamed of or defend your smartmouth. It's more of a blessing than a curse people like us! And it definitely breaks the monotony of listening to reviews that have the potential of being long and boring. -I was also unsatisfied with the tragic ending of this episode. it breaks my heart that the real voyager couldn't refceive the logs from the duplicates. They could have learned something about themselves and about part of the Delta quadrant they hadn't explored. -Voyager has more enemies than people they have actually met. With the duplicates doing their own exploring and the Janeway/Tuvok posers ripping people off, it is not surprising the enemies would be a higher count. Going to a planet just to learn that the occupants already met and traded with them a week ago has got to be disorienting. It is amazing they didn't run into that more often. -Of course, Duplicate Voyager is going to coincidentally run into real Voyager. Real Voyager left the Demon planet to head straight for home. And, when the duplicates left their planet, they headed straight for Earth. When you take the same route, it isn't surprising to hit the same tourist spots. However, going "through" the galactic core didn't mean anything to me when I first heard it and I have no idea why. From what I understand it is total, deadly choas in there that nobody could fathom, so why would they want to travel right through it? Modified warp engine change how your travel, but it wouldn't raise the power of your shields, deflectors, structural integrity, and inertial dampeners. In other words, they still couldn't survive the journey. Silly writers!
Star Trek online released a new story arc: Harry Kim is the Terran Borg King. (I'm 💯 serious). Harry Kim becomes Borg King. Chew on that Chuck). Omg please make a video breaking down how ...ehrm...fitting that position is for him.
It's an amusing episode. Now we just need to keep seeing different Voyagers appearing in the future as they all leave the blueblood planet and try heading back to Earth without realising they are copies...
So, the silver blood can duplicate machinery and technology? It can create a warp capable ship that lifted off and went exploring? I am dumbfounded. I was under the impression that it was organic and desired sentience. This episode put the fiction into science fiction.
This is exactly a sequel to episode Demon. Tom and Harry was sent down to an alien planet and the liquid form duplicated them. They were discovered, but did not want to alone. So Janeway and the crew provided DNA and they duplicated the entire crew.
@@beckiel5511 - Understood, but they didn't provide a ship, right? Or the technology of warp drive? It should have just been 140 or so new life walking around the planet.
This again... it was exhausting enough when I played it on Xbox 360, and my last letsplay! I'm going to have to close shut the jaws of Oblivion, AGAIN!
You say that but there's some vows going viral on tick tock right now where this dude basically just insults his wife over and over again. Saying stuff like "all you need to do to keep me happy is my balls empty and my belly full. You're really good at one of those but let's get you some cooking lessons"
I...still don't care for this one. It feels like its depressing for depressing's sake. I will say nothing else about it, since I know of others who find it to be amongst the highest forms of art that this franchise has produced, I'm just not a fan.
@@Jokie155 That's interesting cause I like Turn Left a lot better than this one. This I do find to be too grim while Turn Left was more on an interesting exploration of a road not travelled with one hell of a wham reveal.
@@Jokie155 It's like he commented on Year of Hell. At least in Turn Left SOMEONE remembered what happened, and thus the adventure wasn't without point. Here? This was needlessly cruel and pointless by the end, since nothing here had any effect on anything. Worse? We don't know if the stuff on the Demon Planet can do more than one? What if there's dozens, or even hundreds of Voyagers out there now, all trying to get home, all being...this?
It's a Twilight Zone episode. It should have ended with Rod Serling going "The USS Voyager... or what's left of it. Floating through space. Their mission becoming a futile and tragic gesture.Trying desperately to leave... The Twilight Zone."
Tom: for all you know the real Harry Kim is having Sunday dinner with his family
Real Harry kim: *floating in the deep dark of space 50,000 LY from voyager*
Remeber the episode where voyager was duplicated but shared the same fuel source
Then, Star Trek Online decided to torture that version some more by revealing he was picked up by the Kobali.
The plan was that with enough duplicates of Voyager, eventually one of them would make it back
@@TheBrokenMadManOf course Harry can't escape his fate even in the sweet embrace of death. Bet he just loved being turned into a zombie "kid" by those weirdos.
@@JounLord1 he came around to it when he learned he could be with Lyndsay again and that his other self became a Captain with a good career and legacy.
@@sigiligusAnd now i'm picturing the Delta Quadrant being threatened with hundrets of Evil Janeways. Destroy one Voyager to save yourself from Janeway and then two more appear, offering their help 😈
It’s fitting that Chuck uploaded this right after Relativity bc I walked away from both episodes thinking “I liked it even if it made no sense.”
I get the feeling that at this point in the show there were elements of the writing staff that threw their hands in the air with:- “who the heck cares”
@ThomasFishwick I mean....after 6 seasons of working on this show I wouldve burned the studio down. And I say that with love as a Voyager fan.
@@ThomasFishwick When they finally stopped giving a fuck, ironically that's when they got superb. Some of the later Voyager episodes are some of my most favorite Star Trek episodes of any series.
@@SaphoSheepI'm rewatching the entire series right now and enjoying much of it. I don't get a lot of the hate it gets, but whatever.
@@kbanghartthe hate is definitely very overblown.
My problem with the time capsule is.....shove it out an airlock or cargo bay. You don't need to launch it like a probe where it can get crushed by bulkheads melting on it.
The typical problem with torpedoes too. When you need them most the launchers tend to fail ... but since the torpedoes are self-propelled you also only need to get them out somehow.
I guess that goes on the same list as ALL transporters failing at once and nobody thinking about the ones on the shuttles, which should at least in some situations solve the problem.
I've always thought this episode is a superb one. We get enough of these characters and their lives to feel the ending. And I like the writers fully committed to the tragedy of said ending and didn't do a convenient save by the real Voyager. Real Janeway's minimal entry about what we know was a crew who had achieved so much and fought so hard to survive makes the kick to the feels even more hard.
There's also a couple of nice touches. The fact the duplicate Voyager had designed a new warp drive that was better than the real one and was a long way ahead shows the duplicate crew were inventive, resourceful and brilliant. I do like the "Krenim tried to recruit Voyager" line, a little titbit that suggests Duplicate Voyager had it's own dose of fun in that region.
I think 7 out 10 is a bit low, for Voyager this is an 8 or 9, and that's accounting for the inconsistencies from Demon.
I like this one
This is just a great episode of Trek period, and very unique.
This feels like an episode that should have been a recurring subplot. Imagine having several episodes where things happen that didn't quite make sense. It seemed like the continuity wasn't being followed, and I know how laughable that is for voyager, the way it should be. Only for it to finally be revealed that this was the wrong crew.
I like this, though the only problem with that is the same issue Dallas faced when an entire season turned out to be a dream. One episode can work as a twist, several and it needs to end with at least some consequences continuing on to the original Voyager crew.
That would have been cool to have it revealed that we saw entire episodes with the Quicksilver Clone crew
That's a great idea! Too add to your idea, this could have been an extended subplot. Think of a few episodes sprinkled with their mission to reach the distress call. The mystery remains, but we see it grow over that time.
Cool idea!
@@drockjr Goddammit, now I'm going to be disappointed we'll never get the CGI adventures of the Quicksilver Clone Voyager crew TV show produced by the Prodigy people
@@CanobyYes, but there was a zero percent chance of that ever happening. I mean Paramount wanted Voyager to be like TNG in the way that you could watch episodes in any order without getting confused as what is going on now. VOY had only a few things changing over time, like Seven replacing Kes and Tom's and B'Elanna's relationship. No huge changes of the status quo like on DS9.
So having multiple episodes where we follow the fake crew would have never been possible, as interesting as it could have been.
It's interesting that the crew made of liquid metal goo is way more competent than the real crew. Well, except for Neelix, who wants them to hang out with sex crickets in liquid argon.
How are they way more competent?
This was just the video I needed after a long, crappy week. Thank you.
This was such a cool albeit sad episode, and one of Voyager's most ambitious stories.
Harry Kim, last of his people because of a stupid choice he made. That is so him it's hilarious.
"And Harry, just to be sure: You are the last one left, but you are still just an ensign!"
I remember this episode. I found it quite upsetting and sad. So it accomplished emotional reactions. Good for it.
I heard about this one from Linkara. He described it roughly as if this crew were sacrificial lambs. Paying the price for all the times the actual crew got off the hook.
I think he called it karmic balance.
This is oneof my favorite episodes of Voyager.
Don't forget the first Star Trek reboot film! Nero was a bad-ass miner, too.
It is truly and entirely reasonable to ask how exactly the silver blood was capable of becoming antimatter for the ships warp reaction.
This episode definitely had it's issues.. many, many issues, but... well.. actually that's all
The good news as is that Real Harry probably didn't say that awful painstick line in the other wedding.
I always liked this episode, despite the fact it doesn't make sense. My favorite part is the Silver blood Harry being the last one standing; he was the first of their kind, so it's poetic he was the last.
If you didn't laugh like a mad person when Chuck said "Neelix's Secs Crickets", you are not an actual person.
Given the ending, your purgatory analogy actually makes quite a bit of sense.
I really liked this episode, but, damn, the ending kicked me in the "futiles". 🙁
I’m the type of person that always steers toward happy endings. I can appreciate tragedies that are written well and will remember them fondly but I’m rarely drawn into one if I know it’s a tragedy before hand. I think. This is overall one of the better written episodes of voyager, which I think was a show that was well below the other series of the 80s -2000s.
That said, the thing that really bothered me about this episode from all the way back when I first saw it was the complete lack of any consequences for the (actual) crew of voyager, Janeway especially.
I didn’t need the beacon to have somehow been received, I didn’t need voyager to sweep in and save the duplicates or many of the other common complaints about how this episode ended. All that would have fixed it for me was some basic understanding of the voyager crew as to what they had come across.
All I would have needed to have been satisfied at the end was for enough of trace to be left that Janeway realized who that ship was and her crew and have that “oh crap” moment of what she had done by allowing themselves to be duplicated. Of her comprehending that that sentient society they had seeded she had also sent on their course to being completely annihilated and there be some realization of just how badly she had screwed up by ignoring the prime directive in this case.
Kate mulgrew is a great actress and a great choice as a captain in trek but the writing of her was absolutely atrocious on so many, many occasions. They caused a lot of trouble in their time on that show and Janeway rarely faced any real consequences for her near infinite supply of bad decisions.
That’s the real tragedy of this episode to me.
Another minor point, if the "real" Voyager had gotten that log buoy they might have found out how to get home in two years. But at least Harry got to be captain (if only by default).
Saying polygamy doesn’t exist in future Star Trek means you don’t understand enterprise at all
I like this episode, it's oddly sad
-I agree. Harry should have saved the painstick joke for the best man speech at the reception. Those kind of jokes are the whole point of that speech.
-I disagree. I like your smartmouth. It makes even boring episodes more fun to watch. In fact, your smartmouth works best when in cynical mode over a boring or ridiculous episode. I can't resist allowing my smartmouth free reign, when I'm able (and sometimes when I'm not). There has to be smart mouth in every group or the cynical would never survive. Don't be ashamed of or defend your smartmouth. It's more of a blessing than a curse people like us! And it definitely breaks the monotony of listening to reviews that have the potential of being long and boring.
-I was also unsatisfied with the tragic ending of this episode. it breaks my heart that the real voyager couldn't refceive the logs from the duplicates. They could have learned something about themselves and about part of the Delta quadrant they hadn't explored.
-Voyager has more enemies than people they have actually met. With the duplicates doing their own exploring and the Janeway/Tuvok posers ripping people off, it is not surprising the enemies would be a higher count. Going to a planet just to learn that the occupants already met and traded with them a week ago has got to be disorienting. It is amazing they didn't run into that more often.
-Of course, Duplicate Voyager is going to coincidentally run into real Voyager. Real Voyager left the Demon planet to head straight for home. And, when the duplicates left their planet, they headed straight for Earth. When you take the same route, it isn't surprising to hit the same tourist spots. However, going "through" the galactic core didn't mean anything to me when I first heard it and I have no idea why. From what I understand it is total, deadly choas in there that nobody could fathom, so why would they want to travel right through it? Modified warp engine change how your travel, but it wouldn't raise the power of your shields, deflectors, structural integrity, and inertial dampeners. In other words, they still couldn't survive the journey. Silly writers!
Alright everybody, we’re coming up on the center of the Milky Way. All together now: “What does God need with a starship?”
Star Trek online released a new story arc: Harry Kim is the Terran Borg King.
(I'm 💯 serious).
Harry Kim becomes Borg King. Chew on that Chuck).
Omg please make a video breaking down how ...ehrm...fitting that position is for him.
"See you soon, Harry." Borg Queen, Unimatrix Zero.
@@Jokie155 yo, you have a great point. What a hell of a memory and tie together. Kudos to you. 👏. Bravo. I'm seriously impressed and you rock.
It's an amusing episode. Now we just need to keep seeing different Voyagers appearing in the future as they all leave the blueblood planet and try heading back to Earth without realising they are copies...
So, the silver blood can duplicate machinery and technology? It can create a warp capable ship that lifted off and went exploring? I am dumbfounded. I was under the impression that it was organic and desired sentience. This episode put the fiction into science fiction.
This is exactly a sequel to episode Demon. Tom and Harry was sent down to an alien planet and the liquid form duplicated them. They were discovered, but did not want to alone. So Janeway and the crew provided DNA and they duplicated the entire crew.
@@beckiel5511 - Understood, but they didn't provide a ship, right? Or the technology of warp drive? It should have just been 140 or so new life walking around the planet.
So is Venus considering a y class planet aka demon planet ?
This again... it was exhausting enough when I played it on Xbox 360, and my last letsplay! I'm going to have to close shut the jaws of Oblivion, AGAIN!
You say that but there's some vows going viral on tick tock right now where this dude basically just insults his wife over and over again. Saying stuff like "all you need to do to keep me happy is my balls empty and my belly full. You're really good at one of those but let's get you some cooking lessons"
I...still don't care for this one. It feels like its depressing for depressing's sake. I will say nothing else about it, since I know of others who find it to be amongst the highest forms of art that this franchise has produced, I'm just not a fan.
It's basically how I feel about Turn Left in Doctor Who. It's just, so goddamn miserable how awful things get without the Doctor.
@@Jokie155 That's interesting cause I like Turn Left a lot better than this one. This I do find to be too grim while Turn Left was more on an interesting exploration of a road not travelled with one hell of a wham reveal.
@@Jokie155 It's like he commented on Year of Hell. At least in Turn Left SOMEONE remembered what happened, and thus the adventure wasn't without point. Here? This was needlessly cruel and pointless by the end, since nothing here had any effect on anything.
Worse? We don't know if the stuff on the Demon Planet can do more than one? What if there's dozens, or even hundreds of Voyagers out there now, all trying to get home, all being...this?
I didn't like it because of how pointless it was.
If you think that's a pointless story, then you're going to hate IRL.
@@wilfdarr "What crappy writers!"
Save time money idea version got turn down