Why The F-16 ADF Flies The Worst Out of Any Version In War Thunder
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2023
- Those who have the F-16 know the pain of its high speed compression. But what if I told you the ADF/MLU (same flight model) variant is the only one that suffers from it that badly?
The block 10 is seen as an unnecessary vehicle to grind by some people who already have the ADF, but there are quirks other than CAS ability that make it all the more unique. 
Игры
Holy shit, a warthunder content creator that has a excellent taste in cinematics and isn’t cringe. I love this guy
seriously. getting real tired of the repetitive flashy gameplay with cringe voice lines in the background after each kill
@@JustJohn505 Wait you don’t like the endless 2012 montages? They’re clearly ground breaking and artistic brilliance.
@@JustJohn505 tell me about it, nearly all warthunder content creators create content on par with baby sensory videos
@@JustJohn505 Yea, I shut off every video at this point if I hear a fart sound after a non penning shot
Zetaris and his consequences have been a disaster for the warthunder content community
The ADF seriously feels like they just took a foldered aircraft and gave it its own thing.
Tbh i think it was gaijins excuse to force american players to grind out 2 planes for sparrows
@@Elijah1573 Sparrows ver came first, the ground armament sec.
@@eesmaaura4961 Yes i know that
But my point is other nations that have the F-16 only have one variant to grind through and they all get bombs and sparrows Aside from the italian ADF
Not just that but ive noticed that the mig 21 mf has better look down capability with r3rs than this plane does.
They butchered this plane entirely
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 man the r3rs on spsk are the most satisfying missiles to get kills with
AIM-7M isn't the most modern version of the Sparrow, AIM-7P and the AIM-7MH (also called AIM-7H, an AIM-7M upgraded with AIM-7P parts) were and they had lofting.
Also this DCS level montage is awesome, Gaijin did good adding the new camera.
Aim 7m and 7f loft too😐
@@tobi2233 ; I am pretty sure they shouldn't, especially the AIM-7F. Again loft was a feature the AIM-7P introduced and the AIM-7M was upgrade with in the AIM-7MH's form.
@@FirstDagger yeah the M and F shouldnt loft in war thunder if they do, but I think in the video he just meant that it has the most modern sparrow in the game.
@@tobi2233 they dont they just go above if the target is higher
Gaijin added a new camera for cinematics??
This is really well made, but I think you might have missed something. If my understanding is correct, the reason that the block 10 variants of the 16 can pull more is due mainly to the nature of how realistic mouse aim artificially limits the deflection of the elevators of the block 15+ models with the instructor. Consequently, in sim/full real controls, the ADF (and all other block 15+ variants) can pull competitive levels of Gs with the block 10s - but just that, only in sim.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as it has been a minute since I looked into this. Also, its worth noting that having less weight on the A model will still have an effect, although slim. I just thought it may be worth mentioning that there is a significant difference in ability when it comes to the block 15+ variants on a variety of different control settings. The same can be said for the Mirage 2000 as well, its able to pull things in sim that it cant even get close to in RB controls.
This is of course all assuming that you did your tests using RB controls in the first place, which I assume you did.
The main difference is roughly 300kg if I remember correctly. The block 10 is just lighter and so pulls more.
In full real controls with trim axis I can rip the f16 at around 13-15G
I've since stopped playing war thunder and moved on to DCS because it has more of what I wanted but I always flew sim controls in RB because of the things I could do that players using a mouse could not. I didn't have a fancy set up like I do now. Back then I just used an xbox controller. Although I have played a couple of times with my DCS setup, War Thunder sadly just feels too arcade even in sim games.
@@deekamikaze Oh boy, here we go.
Earlier this week i defeated an F-16 in my J-8B in a one-on-one dogfight. Must have been the greatest thrill iv’e ever felt in this game
1:51 "the most modern version of the Sparrow even today, the AIM-7M"
*AIM-7P would like to have a word*
Anyways great video as always!
absolutely over the top editing, aside from dollar with his meme format and animations, I've seen nothing else from creators that's this consistently over the top
Interesting, didn't know that. I'll still stick to my ADF for Air RB tho, if only because I'm happy to trade a bit of dogfighting potential for the 7Ms. 40km Killshots are a wonderful thing.
i only dare to shoot that far away using the F14 because.. in air rb.. if you get locked for long enough people are going to notch and dive down rendering ur pd radar useless... in the F14 though you can switch from normal radar and pd while maintaining lock and you get way more AIM 7's
@@henlooo8135 +The F-14B that's coming next update is getting the AIM-7M, which will be a great step up from the 7F.
@@uberschnilthegreat22 honestly.. in my experience with the F16.. its worse than the aim 7f because it sometimes fucking goes into outer space while maintaining constant lock but other times when i lose lock it can still get a kill.. and sometimes i lock someone and it goes for someone else meanwhile with the aim 7f.. it can still get kills when i lose lock right before it hits and it doesnt go to outer space
Nice video, love the editing that goes in to these short format cinematic gameplay.
I love the editing and the "serious" humour that goes into the video
That was some really nice editing and you raised some great points. You just got a new sub
Wow these videos are insane. Good music, visuals, and very informative! Didnt fastforward at any point!
loving your videos rn man, super informative
That was a crisp video my guy great work!
Earned yourself a sub. Good video, nice pace with the visuals complementing the script, and well chosen audio.
Take it for what it’s worth, I think one way of making this video would be using WRTI and showing different altitude turns (and maybe even a top-down view of the turning circle side by side). That would require more work, but overall impressive video.
Honestly I feel equally comfortable in a dogfight with either frame, though I do agree the BLK.10 has better instant agility. Think that's just because usually I'm trying not to engage in a dogfight at all or when I am, I'm trying to rate fight at mid-speeds, which is equal between the two (both absolutely rip around at 26 degrees per second). However, since the BLK.15/20 has access to Aim-7M's (MH when), I prefer it to the BLK.10 since I have more stand-off capability. It's really just personal taste though
Then what if a block 10 frame but comes with sparrows... FYI currently the 7M is literally same with 7F in game
@@ChipsetS_main Yeah, I really with Gaijin modeled the 7M's better seeker. Should see way better in rear and front aspect
@@ChipsetS_main So the f16aj :D
Dude your background clips are always amazing, you should consider making short WT films or something like that
amazing quality i love your vids man! keep up the good work!
Alot of quality content right here, love it
Greatest technical and “historical” warthunder channel out there
damn your cinematics hit hard
cool video
This is fr the cleanest wt vid I’ve ever seen
The editing is insane!!
Love youre vids man! quality over quantaty
I really really liked the camera angles and overall direction of the video!!! Just make sure to read @RustyRobot 's comment about differing controls for RB and SIM in game.
I love your thumbnails they remind me so much of mustards thumbnails
Nah bruh this mf is far better than spookton
yeah, i've banned him he is cancer af
What a perfect looking footages in your videos.
You get a sub for the great content! Well done
RB players having instructor limiting about 40% of their planes performance:Gaijin is shitting on the F16s...
always noticed in videos that people flying their Block 10s looked...overall lighter with their handling than the Block 15 i usually fly- ive still bagged a few Block 10s in it though because with a HOTAS the Block 15 can just about pull as hard as it wants, so long as i dont allow my energy state to fall too slow or too fast. And the performance gap between these two falcons can be negligible with a bit of clever BFM through those means- though i would fear a pilot who flies this thing with a HOTAS lmao. this reminds me lots of the dogfighting disparity between the JA37 and AJ37 viggens
Yea I'd say you've earned my subscription 10/10 vid
Not gonna matter to me anymore bc I’m gonna be kicking ass in the F-14B
Much better audio quality, thank you so much!
Edit: Also, this video has made me reinstall warthunder for the 7th time.
Proof that the F16AJ is currently the best if we ignore the extra countermeasures from the MLU
only Aim-7F tho...
@@pelto7706 7F same as 7M in-game
@@ahisjkh07AJ doesn't have TWS
correct @@Hoshino_Channel
@@ahisjkh07 MLU does though
needs more views fr
Bigger tail makes it easier to get out of deep stalls because it shifts the center of lift bit more aft than its lower area predecessor 💀
I mean, j35d and ja37c/d can win with f16 in dogfight, it's not easy but still easier than winning with mig 29 in my opinion
Someone in the F16 is doing something extremely wrong if they're losing to a Draken or Viggen. All the F16 has to do is take either two circle and it immediately wins. The Draken and Viggen just don't have enough thrust anyway.
@@F22Lover if f16 doesn't run and they start at similar speed then u can win with those since Draken has better turn radius (or at least it used to have) and viggen has its magic flaps and can keep up with f16 top speed
@@4S1X_ All the F16 has to do is go vertical or rate fight and it wins
@@F22Lover it won't win so easily at vertical fight with viggen, it will win with Draken tho. But otherwise I won't think so it will be easy kill for f16, nor it's for viggen but chances for winning are equal for both sides, maybe little higher for f16 but it's still not sure which one will win
@@4S1X_you are so entirely wrong, the viggen cannot maintain its energy well enough to sustain a vertical just a few turns with an F-16 in a vertical and it will lose all its speed and die. Sure the nose of it is a bit threatening but if you just fly to the side of its nose a bit the viggen just won’t have the aoa to point it’s nose at you and you can keep going vertical, I’ve fought my buddy in Sweden who uses the draken and viggen and we even switched aircraft and by no means was it a contest for the F-16
instability and manuoeverabilty are different things, its makes sense to say they are if you think about it but in reality manoeuvrability is how hard a plane can pull a turn and how quickly in a given direction, and instability is how the airframe reacts to adverse air conditions (wind, turbulence etc) its an easy mistake to make but
I got the Netz on Israel after playing the F-16 ADF in the American tree and it is night and day for me. The ADF feels like an absolute brick by comparison. I feel like I can actually dogfight in the Netz (an F-16A block 10). My first 3 games I got 4 kills, then 5 kills, then 6 kills.
Having the new Python 3's helps too.
Great video
I never knew wt could look this good
The Kfir can hold it's own in some cases against the block 10, besides energy retention i guess
You can still clap anyone with ADF but every once in a while you have to take the fight with another F16 only to realise its a Block 10 and now you're dead.
You know it’s sad when a gaming community watches videos of in game aircraft specifically to discuss what the developer does wrong.
While other communities exchange flying stories on how they took a missile, limped it back to the airfield, repaired, and then covered a helicopter inserting ground troop by providing SEAD
You should do something like this for dcs
Is the filter in-game post FX or edited?
new added systems => added weight => FATAL FLAW
the block 15s for some reason have a broken FM which is just weird as fuck, with full real it pulls more than the block 10 at least from the limited experience I have between em
no matter how bad it is compared to the A, both eat sparrows and Vulcan like champs. Su25s are proud of them.
The reclined seat is because the canopy would have to protrude higher in relation to the airframe. Reclining gives a lot more clearance for taller pilots.
Every source I have seen says the reclined seat is for G-loading reasons, since the head and feet are closer to the same level as the heart, the load on the cardiovascular system is greatly reduced, making it vastly easier to avoid blacking out during extended maneuvers, such as a 2-circle Dogfight.
the 14 is a better dogfighter because it behaves better on a much greater range of speeds. It can use flaps and when on manual wing control, you get tremendous lift
AIM-7P is the final Sparrow model.
I almost heard the talking over the music
Larger elevators would equal better ability to pull, but it’s modeled weird.
What sound mods do you use? Also, are your graphics via editing? Or is it possible for me to have my game look like yours?
I use ETSM, a sound mod that's basically in a perpetual early access for $10 a month. This video specifically actually has its sounds almost entirely edited in manually, so don't expect anything similar from ETSM. Color correction and other video effects all done in post.
@Pilicast Damn, thank you for the swift response. Your content has some of the best quality of any warthunder tuber, keep at it , I love to see more.
How do people get their war thunder to look this good
I think the A-5/RA-5 Vigilante was the first production combat aircraft to have fly-by-wire
nope
Gaijin should just give it a good ole WT flight model so we can pull 14Gs out of our ass.
Where can i get that Mig 29 F22 skin?
I don't disagree, but at top tier I personally find prolonged dog fights to be much more rare than good positioning and getting picks with missiles
they turn the same, just take a full aim9L load out if wanna turn more with block 50
I would like gaijin add a more realistic flight model of the F-16
Apparently the MLUs flight model is a copy paste from the block 10
Here i am, in the woeful minority of those that win the majority of my 1 v 1s in the ADF.
While the BLK 10 does feel better, the slight performance "downgrade" in the BLK 15 doesnt really feel like a hinderance.
What model is the F-16AJ? It has the smaller elevators, can carry air-to-ground munitions, but can also carry sparrows. Is this the ultimate F-16 in game?
As far as I know the AJ's armament is exaggerated to a degree, since there is little source material on it
But judging from the airframe it would be a block 10
YOu make me wonder if you would enjoy/have enjoyed Falcon 4.0
0:50 lmao that shit got me
What do you do in a high speed dogfight in either F16, it just seems like MIG29’s can extend and force the AoA limiter to cuck you by forcing a high speed pass.
Wish WT sounded like that
It was not designed to be unstable to improve maneuverability. It was designed to improve energy-maneuverability. This is to say that it should have superior energy retention and turn rate than other fighters and designs. It's AoA was drastically limited in comparison to other designs such as the F-14 and F-15 or F/A-18. The aircraft had poor performance when rolling at AoA above 20 degrees without drastically reducing roll rate, which was done later as a modification to the FLCS.
In fact, the reason the ADF / MLU perform worse than the block 10 is almost solely due to the instructor flight model. They can handle more AoA and recover far more easily in full real. This is advantageous when fighting better dogfighters such as the F-14A and the MiG-29 which can easily force one circle fights
Cool!
Hmmm indeed
AIM-7M is not the most modern variant of the Sparrow, the AIM-7MH is.
So the AJ is the best air to air F-16 unless they buff the Aim-7M then?
TRUE
It may be the best dogfighter in the game, but saddly, in this era of war thunder, it does not matter. The second you loose speed its game over. And even in the "best" plane build for that, 90% of its pilot can't even dogfight
Is it worth using the sparrows to trade for the better performance?
i think yes cuz you not gonna dogfight that much in top tier
They should make the f16 and mig29 have the same g limit instead of f16 pulling less g's then the mig29
I wonder how you got the post processing colors to look like that. Was it with reshade or was it in a video editing software?
But, after gaijin remove g limit ADF is best f16a in term of turn and overall respons to dogfight
First best f16 is Japan version
Because its just f16a cas version with aim7.
The f16 can use sparrows? I thought it never use them
It’s unfortunate to me that the ADF flies the worst of the F-16’s, as it’s a plane important to my regional pride; you may notice the tail flash, an eagle and the word “Oregon.” This tail flash is of Kingsley Air Force Base, which is near my home town, and is currently the F-15C training wing.
does anyone know where the F-16AJ falls in all this?
It’s the best
As a Viggen player, I could hardly call the F-16 the best dogfighter in the game.
The favourite of all F-16 players is to drag their opponent in the vertical rate fight. My trump card to that: "don't follow him lmao"
Coming from someone who has done 1 on 1 controlled dogfights so same fuel and no missles guns only there is a definite difference on the f-16s having fought them all against decent pilots but 29 still beats the 16 block 10 the 29 I can say is the better fighter.
Cap.
Can't do anything in first F F16 12.0 it's F unplayable
barely pulling 8gs while f14 pulls harder
So they aren’t modeled correctly in the game
I've always been disappointed by the F-16ADF in game. I like the radar gunsight, but everything else it does, the Tomcat can do better. with the introduction of the F-14B and its more powerful engines, I'm certain that the F-16 will be useless in a competitive environment... unless gaijin reworks how mouse aim works with the fly by wire avionics.
The F-16s might be the pinnacle of dogfighters in WT, but in my experience their pilots are so inexperienced that beating them in a dogfight is not that hard, I consistently win 1v1s against F-16s in my J-7E.
that's partially because the J-7E is also a monster dogfighter, but yes, most F-16 players don't seem to know how to airbrake
7M doesnt differ from the 7F and the only thing that changes is the visual model
You do know the 7m has a skyflash seeker head right? Its not just a copy.
@@classifiedit5892 what does that change bruv?
Everyone in here is nerding out hard about specifics and blocks or whatever. Mf im just playing the game😂 gun and missile goes brrrrr
Idk, but I'd prefer the ADF cuz it has sparrows, which are really strong
F-16AJ has the Block 10 flight model but also Sparrow capability, I say its tied for the best F-16 with the Netz and thats only because Python 3's are whack.
you don't get best and cheap in one package......come on it should have been obvious right.
I don't know. Me and my squadron do a lot of BFM practice in war thunder. There are definite advantages the viper has to exploit against everything it fights against, but i mean its turn rate really only "kicks in" around the 430-350KT range. which all around isnt bad, but i mean it has about the same if not extrenely similar sustained turn rate as the F-14A, but the turn rate in the ADF vs the A is minimal, and barely even true. The ADF sacrifices some 1 circle capability for avionics upgrades, while maintaining a 2 circle fighter. This is a trend with later models (and if youre an RB player, youre not really gonna find much love with rate fighters because rate fighting involves alot of stick play, and you cant do that with hoe rb on keyboard+mouse works.) But the issue is it's outclassed by even the F-14A when it comes to 1 circle capability. Which considering the mig-29, and mirage 2000 exist, why fly an F-16 as a dogfighter for RB when the best BFM style for K+M pilots is 1 circle fighting?
that's just warthunder being bad at making FM and being ignorant about aerodynamics
Eh, F-16 is cool and all but the MiG-29, in MY opinion, is a bit better and cooler looking
Learn about the offset two circle, it's one of the few things you can do in a worse rate fighter to beat it.
However you still need a fairly maneuverable aircraft
Honestly one of the best tactics I've learned, it can make you win dogfights you really shouldn't
Well luckily this is war thunder where shit like offset two circles really doesn’t matter, actually two circle doesn’t matter half the time on the deck, if you get on the deck in an f-16 per say, you can go up to 370 knots and just start pulling hard and win pretty much always it’s a really funny little thing some aircraft can do. Also if they try to offset you just mimic their movements and the offset is lost.
Flies the worst of any version in game, still makes every nation other than US and USSR irrelevent xD
You're using it wrong.