Sorcery is such a fun time. The precons are an incredible way for someone to get up and running, especially for a CCG. I'd even go as far as to say that they're generous with what they deliver. I think there's enough variety and game in those decks alone to keep many people happy without going further. That ease (and low cost barrier) to entry is a great move for a casual/kitchen table experience - building the player base and spreading the word on the merit of the game. Sorcery, Netrunner, Ashes, and L5R (TCG) are my go to kitchen tabletop card games these days. Pretty sure I have you guys to thank for at least half of these - cheers to that 🍻
I've been talking about this topic a lot lately! You guys nailed it. It's bizarre people don't just want to play the game for fun, no strings attached. I've seen shade being thrown at LGS for not rewarding store credit on top of the other prizes lately. For something as low as a $5 buy-in. Something has got to give!
20:45, I think there may be some correlation without causation here. I have heard from local stores that in-store SWU play has drastically shifted down in the last month or so around here as well but when talking to the players many of them have said that they're waiting on the new set to come out (which has a pre-release in three days), others were bored of a one-set meta and others felt priced out with boxes going up to $200+. I think there are a lot of factors at play with SWU besides the single question of whether or not there are Weekly Play packs in the store or not. 39:42, Souvenirs have existed for thousands of years - heck, the Ancient Romans collected them. Differentiating these sorts of things from play promos is potentially a distinction without a difference. Some human beings want mementos of the events that they have attended or the places they've gone. I don't think this is always a negative thing (definitely not new) like it is being framed at this point in the video. It's a bit strange to see so many comments early in the Live Chat Replay about how Commander and FNM play don't need promos when FNM was doing promos as far back as 2000 with decades of promo cards made specifically for it. It's telling that the shift away from FNM store promos coincided with WotC bypassing LGSes and selling directly to consumers through places like Amazon. Some Commander players may not be playing in stores to get promos, just like some SWU players may not try to get the Weekly Play promos, but events and conventions with Commander play like MagicFest still offer promo cards to attendees (I have a promo Sol Ring from the Commander events there in 2019). Conspicuous consumption is a huge part of the MtG ecosystem and maybe even moreso in Commander where there is an emphasis on creating a 'unique' personalized deck with variant art cards of which promos certainly play a part.
All I expect from a game store is maybe air conditioning because I live in the deep South. I never played tournaments that weren't local, never received a promo for playing weekly, and was never charged a table fee. The only thing that might motivate me to invest in a new game and travel to play is a compelling narrative and the opportunity to influence story if I win. That's more valuable to me than cash prizes. That's probably why I haven't invested in a new TCG since 2010. Now I just play MECCG with friends who play and TC got my wife and I into Arkham Horror LCG.
Ps. I'd probably play Sorcery if there was a scene nearby. I sabotaged that by convincing my friends to play MECCG which is a pricey investment these days...
Hahaha I'm proud of both of you for that beautiful game of Sorcery. Except Steven who cut Lightning Bolt (!) I hope you were playing Plague of Frogs, Steven?! On the store kit question, I feel like you guys got to some good points about why prizes and prize kits can be really effective at building communities. It felt like at the start of the discussion there was a premise that people coming to play partly to win promos is a bad thing? I think it's great that people love card games enough to spend their time playing the game to win some more cards to show off or sell or enjoy or look at. There's something to be said of promos and store kits being a way for games to give back to stores and players and help foster communities (a reinvestment of some of the proceeds of sale of cards). Similarly for stores, there's something to be said for tournaments fulfilling a similar role in the overall economy of each game. Giving your players something to strive for, a reason to buy singles and build decks and be excited to play more games is an effective way for stores to improve the return games give them financially, whilst also building fun and community. I think prize kits and OP support is really excellent and wholesome for building communities, and I love giving out prizes and promos and playmats to players at our events and seeing their excitement and enjoyment of the game and the prizes. Dust store rewards for Sorcery are another great part of that value proposition too.
I also got that feeling when they were discussing the promos early on. I don't see it as any different than the WoW mount discussion later on which they didn't seem to see in the same light. I have the same feeling and drive that Steven describes about the goat mount for weekly promos in SWU. I want those promo Death Troopers to bling out my SWU deck to make it visually different (like he talks about the Mechanostriders). Sure, you can buy them but you can same the same thing about vanity mounts in WoW as well since you can often just go the easy route and purchase things there as well if you don't want to spend the time in the game.
personally to me i think the "problem" with promos and why it makes more people show up, is because the casual players that feel they have no shot at actually winning 1st 2nd or 3rd whether it be for the glory or for those prizes (booster packs promos, playmats etc) still get something out of going and getting shit on by the players that do nothing and think about nothing else other than that particular game. Also i think for the money they put in to enter the tournament, they feel they still are gonna leave with something special even though they know they are not going to win. Love Sorcery! and Love you guys! that is just my 2 cents
I love the Sorcery streams. It's like a throwback Thursday without being an actual throwback. Or Thursday. But I wish you guys had the time to bring back the real throwbacks (Thursday or otherwise)!
I’ve always thought the golf course/club was a good way to rethink the value a FLGS provides. I hear Steven’s point regarding most people don’t have “space” to do this at home. It’s certainly true, however I think there are a lot of people that don’t have the space to play these games in their home. Granted, you can maybe find other public spaces that could provide the space, but I think is a board game store created a great in-store play experience people will see value. I’m also coming from more of a board game experience where the space is the biggest value add for me. Your point of paying for players is certainly critical in the CCG/LCG and competitive organized play space. To the earlier point golf is golf for the most part and bowling is bowling, however a board game store is asked to support a wider and more diverse table top community rather than one game with a specific rule set. You are certainly correct in saying the barrier to entry is lower, but board game stores have to find a way to monetize the value they provide to those board gamers. It’s not an easy thing to do, but I would absolutely pay a monthly membership fee for a game store that meets my “space” needs. Always love this conversation and there is so many other places to go. I’ve always wondered what other value add products or services a game store could provide. Can you charge a small fee for high level demos followed by a discount for the game? Could your CCG/LCG subscriptions work for board games for certain publishers or designers? Creating an engaging enough space that people would want to host events, such as birthdays or other celebrations. After school or summer programs/camps for kids? Idk what works and what doesn’t but I appreciate TC speaking on this topic so frequently. It will certainly be a defining problem for the table top industry over the next 5-10 years!
On the topic of a third space, I feel like more and more cities have expanded, relying more and more on cars for transport. However, growing up now, you can't drive and so your third space has become the internet, which trains kids more and more you don't need to meet in person unless there's an incentive.
In the wargaming hobby, a third space due paying club is common in the EU, especially the UK. As stated around 1:18:00, this is particularly driven by the fact that homes in the EU/UK are smaller than in North America, so they needed to find somewhere to play. Retail real estate is also a lot more expensive, so only really high end stores have dedicated play space.
Is it better to run waveshaper or sorcerer in waveshaper deck? I like the later card draw better then waveshaper ability i think. Hot take?? Deck remains same otherwise.
I love playing games casually with my friends, however I genuinely hate tournaments. Always have, and I have won a few in my time including nationals of the game I play (v:tes) also a bunch of magic ones. I have never once enjoyed myself in a tournament situation. I will play casual at a friends place all day but I never want to set foot in a tournament ever again. Saying that there are some full art promos coming up you can only get at a tourny.... it is tempting me. I dunno, perhaps some people don't enjoy the tournament environment and that little extra incentive brings those people in.
This is me also. The only reason I even consider playing at LGS tournament events is because there's promo packs. And it's not that I have no chance at winning prizes, it's just the whole atmosphere of competitive "play to win prizes" event is not appealing to me. People get tense and stressed and get upset when they lose, it sucks. I need my games to be chill and fun. I want to be able to crack jokes and discuss play moves. I obviously can't do it when my opponent is nervously shuffling their hand. The problem is that most LGS don't seem to be interested in running casual play events. I'm not saying tournaments with prizes shouldn't exist, I get it that some people enjoy that scene and need that as motivation to play. I just wish there were options other than that. With SWU I ended up buying a lot of cards from those promo packs online, because the only option to get them at LGS was to play in a tournament and I didn't want to do it. And it's irrelevant to me how little the event cost, it's the fact that it's a _competitive_ event that I don't want to partake in. I would pay a fee to attend a casual game night, even if there's no promo packs. BTW SWU promo packs don't just have color border. In those packs you can get hyperspace versions of cards exclusive to the 2 player starter. AND alternative art cards, both in hyperspace and truly gorgeous hyperspace ripple foil.
@@Kickyboots1207 The stores around here are giving out SWU Weekly Play packs for just showing up and playing - no competitive participation necessary. The official SWU site actually suggests that the Weekly Play packs be used for 'hang out' casual games and 'open play' nights (they're not called "Tournament Packs"). The issue here is the way that your LGS is distributing them.
I've been having this conversation with people for a few years now, around the time Tolarian Community College started saying "support your LGS". I've been in tcg's for nearly 30 years and in that time I've played in dozens and dozens of card shops. My argument to the "support your LGS" community is, what have they done to earn it? If a restaurant made the best food in the area but you're draped in b.o. the whole time then you likely won't bother going there. Honestly, I've played in every kind of store at this point and a good portion of them were total dumps. Just the smelliest, darkest, most cramped places you can imagine. Playing with some big sweaty dudes literally back to back for hours on end and we all did it for fun but I'm not about to continue on that way. I'm not suggesting that I need prize support, I don't even play competitively anymore but being comfortable shouldn't be a bonus. I've played in YMCA basements, mom and pop shops, regional chains and not one thing is consistent from place to place. I don't know what the answer to this issue is but I know that the current system doesn't work or at least it won't work for the next 30 years. I think Sorcery might have something with their crazy model. I love Erik's vision and if it just amounts to this one set then I'll play it forever but it's insane if they're in the business to make money. The same as any other physical hobby, you just provide the equipment and let the consumer figure it out, I mean that's how Magic started.
My side tangent on this specific example (SW:U) is how much "could" have been due to the shortage of cards? like... if you can't buy product (all sold out)... then "random pack" if you show up for game night is the one thing you can do to add to your collection.... So is this example still valid across other games (FAB, pokemon, etc, etc)... or was it the lack of product in SW:U scenario that made it quite so dramatic? My other thought is personally I'm just too dang busy to really get out to the LGS as often as I should... whether for a new TCG or a launch event or a casual event or an organized tournament... so I literally have to cherry pick the "best" event for me to support in a given month just due to scheduleing with work, family, friends, etc... I think if we go back to your pub example... how many people can just "leave work" and go to the pub for a drink with co-workers or a "game" with friends at the LGS? vs how many people who'd love to get a pint or a pack or play in a casual event just can't get out on a random Tuesday or can't go straight from work to the shop or the pub for a game with "like-minded-folks"... So I feel like it is our culture of "go-go-go" and being too busy that prevents us from "just" going to the LGS (or the pub) to hang out with people who could be friends that we just haven't met yet.
The promo packs are plentiful in my area for SWU, but that doesn’t get me to go out unless there is an actual tournament for something else. I need the most minimal of stakes for me to justify driving an hour round trip when I have to be at work at 4 AM, and more of the promos ain’t it when I have close to 40 unopened ones.
Sorry for the string of comments; I'm firing them off as I watch. Packs were much more valuable when I was younger and my disposable income was a lot less. Now that I buy ccgs by the box and sometimes case, it has next to no value. There are old school and vintage mtg tournaments that players will pay hundreds of dollars to enter (NYSE VIII in June had a $500 entry fee, and they got a turnout of 109 players). The top prize was a Black Lotus, but the caliber of players and the pedigree of the tournament draws people even outside the country to play.
If your a good hearted person and make the choice to help everything and never harm anything, you are a hero and are walking the best path that you possibly can. God bless everyone and everything ❤
At this stage in my hobbies, even a promo card isn't worth it to me. If I want it, I would rather pay for the card on the secondary market than show up and get it for free. The average gathering of randoms in public spaces (mainly game stores) is usually a net negative for me, even if I go with a group of friends. The only gatherings I will attend are high level competitive tournaments where I am looking for good competition. I don't care about the prizes. I'm there for the challenge. I am willing to suffer going to the store in order to get that competition. A few people in my various playgroups, including myself, have nice places in our homes that we can play. We have no problem with our friends bringing new people along with the assumption that they will be a good fit. Regarding game stores, there are a bunch of issues. Many stores are dark poorly laid out clubhouses. Many players that have no concept of hygiene. Some players that have no sense of social decorum, saying sexist, homophobic, or generally disparaging comments to fellow players. I'm fine with a little ribbing between players, but I don't need to play against Dice Clay. Some players are salty try-hards that can't handle being beat. It's also infuriating when store owners and/or employees refuse to deal with the above players, simply standing behind the counter acting like nothing is happening. There is a store a town over that has a private game room you can rent with a good game table, and we've paid and used it a couple of times when nobody's house was available. The biggest problem with game stores are the random bad players and the stores not willing to cut them off for fear of losing a customer, which is short sighted because it often ends up costing them more customers in the long run.
Huh? The most expensive SWU Weekly Play promo is $3 unless you pull a foil variant which would be exceedingly rare and, even then, that's worth a whopping $5. Not really worth it from a time-investment perspective as there are much more lucrative ways to spend your time. Even a Store Showdown Top 8 promo is $11 and that's for hours of play (again, there are much easier ways to make money).
@@ccgear4367 They never state that they were there for cards to resell. That's not in the video anywhere. It also doesn't make any sense at all due to the value of the cards in question (see above).
"Achievements" is exactly the right word for it. I first got introduced to that in World of Warcraft and I found it to be so strange. Even more on Playstation etc. You played through a game --> Achievement. It turns even non competitive things into competitive spaces. Now TCGs are mostly played to win and thats fair but the fun of playing shouldn't be competitive. "Look I have so many promos I enjoy this game way more than you who only sits at home and looks at the cards." Magic the Gathering has ultimately monetized this via the "Secret Lair" a horrible, attrocious, cynical and greedy monstrosity of a product for something that once was a game. At the moment I think Sorcery has a fair level of promo cards. It's not too much and some like Curio cards are super rare and SUPER expensive. But at the same time the focus still is on the regular cards I think.
Sorcery is such a fun time. The precons are an incredible way for someone to get up and running, especially for a CCG. I'd even go as far as to say that they're generous with what they deliver. I think there's enough variety and game in those decks alone to keep many people happy without going further. That ease (and low cost barrier) to entry is a great move for a casual/kitchen table experience - building the player base and spreading the word on the merit of the game.
Sorcery, Netrunner, Ashes, and L5R (TCG) are my go to kitchen tabletop card games these days. Pretty sure I have you guys to thank for at least half of these - cheers to that 🍻
Wish I could hit the like button a second time for Steven's Waveshaper deck. I'm in the process of foiling mine out.
I've been talking about this topic a lot lately! You guys nailed it. It's bizarre people don't just want to play the game for fun, no strings attached.
I've seen shade being thrown at LGS for not rewarding store credit on top of the other prizes lately. For something as low as a $5 buy-in. Something has got to give!
People have to understand that shops need to make money. Paying for the shop's time is essential.
20:45, I think there may be some correlation without causation here. I have heard from local stores that in-store SWU play has drastically shifted down in the last month or so around here as well but when talking to the players many of them have said that they're waiting on the new set to come out (which has a pre-release in three days), others were bored of a one-set meta and others felt priced out with boxes going up to $200+. I think there are a lot of factors at play with SWU besides the single question of whether or not there are Weekly Play packs in the store or not.
39:42, Souvenirs have existed for thousands of years - heck, the Ancient Romans collected them. Differentiating these sorts of things from play promos is potentially a distinction without a difference. Some human beings want mementos of the events that they have attended or the places they've gone. I don't think this is always a negative thing (definitely not new) like it is being framed at this point in the video.
It's a bit strange to see so many comments early in the Live Chat Replay about how Commander and FNM play don't need promos when FNM was doing promos as far back as 2000 with decades of promo cards made specifically for it. It's telling that the shift away from FNM store promos coincided with WotC bypassing LGSes and selling directly to consumers through places like Amazon. Some Commander players may not be playing in stores to get promos, just like some SWU players may not try to get the Weekly Play promos, but events and conventions with Commander play like MagicFest still offer promo cards to attendees (I have a promo Sol Ring from the Commander events there in 2019). Conspicuous consumption is a huge part of the MtG ecosystem and maybe even moreso in Commander where there is an emphasis on creating a 'unique' personalized deck with variant art cards of which promos certainly play a part.
All I expect from a game store is maybe air conditioning because I live in the deep South. I never played tournaments that weren't local, never received a promo for playing weekly, and was never charged a table fee.
The only thing that might motivate me to invest in a new game and travel to play is a compelling narrative and the opportunity to influence story if I win. That's more valuable to me than cash prizes. That's probably why I haven't invested in a new TCG since 2010. Now I just play MECCG with friends who play and TC got my wife and I into Arkham Horror LCG.
Context: 2010 is when I basically stopped playing Magic.
Ps. I'd probably play Sorcery if there was a scene nearby. I sabotaged that by convincing my friends to play MECCG which is a pricey investment these days...
Hahaha I'm proud of both of you for that beautiful game of Sorcery. Except Steven who cut Lightning Bolt (!) I hope you were playing Plague of Frogs, Steven?!
On the store kit question, I feel like you guys got to some good points about why prizes and prize kits can be really effective at building communities. It felt like at the start of the discussion there was a premise that people coming to play partly to win promos is a bad thing? I think it's great that people love card games enough to spend their time playing the game to win some more cards to show off or sell or enjoy or look at.
There's something to be said of promos and store kits being a way for games to give back to stores and players and help foster communities (a reinvestment of some of the proceeds of sale of cards). Similarly for stores, there's something to be said for tournaments fulfilling a similar role in the overall economy of each game. Giving your players something to strive for, a reason to buy singles and build decks and be excited to play more games is an effective way for stores to improve the return games give them financially, whilst also building fun and community.
I think prize kits and OP support is really excellent and wholesome for building communities, and I love giving out prizes and promos and playmats to players at our events and seeing their excitement and enjoyment of the game and the prizes. Dust store rewards for Sorcery are another great part of that value proposition too.
I also got that feeling when they were discussing the promos early on.
I don't see it as any different than the WoW mount discussion later on which they didn't seem to see in the same light. I have the same feeling and drive that Steven describes about the goat mount for weekly promos in SWU. I want those promo Death Troopers to bling out my SWU deck to make it visually different (like he talks about the Mechanostriders). Sure, you can buy them but you can same the same thing about vanity mounts in WoW as well since you can often just go the easy route and purchase things there as well if you don't want to spend the time in the game.
personally to me i think the "problem" with promos and why it makes more people show up, is because the casual players that feel they have no shot at actually winning 1st 2nd or 3rd whether it be for the glory or for those prizes (booster packs promos, playmats etc) still get something out of going and getting shit on by the players that do nothing and think about nothing else other than that particular game. Also i think for the money they put in to enter the tournament, they feel they still are gonna leave with something special even though they know they are not going to win. Love Sorcery! and Love you guys! that is just my 2 cents
Excellent topic and discussion again. Funny to see the olden days of MTG flair alive and well in that chaos twister. Hilarious blowing cards...
I love the Sorcery streams. It's like a throwback Thursday without being an actual throwback. Or Thursday. But I wish you guys had the time to bring back the real throwbacks (Thursday or otherwise)!
We do too! Hopefully, you haven’t seen the last of throwbacks. We’ve got some ideas floating around.
Still waiting for Zach to re-enact the Vader corridor moment from Rogue One during the silhouette intro
I’ve always thought the golf course/club was a good way to rethink the value a FLGS provides. I hear Steven’s point regarding most people don’t have “space” to do this at home. It’s certainly true, however I think there are a lot of people that don’t have the space to play these games in their home. Granted, you can maybe find other public spaces that could provide the space, but I think is a board game store created a great in-store play experience people will see value.
I’m also coming from more of a board game experience where the space is the biggest value add for me. Your point of paying for players is certainly critical in the CCG/LCG and competitive organized play space. To the earlier point golf is golf for the most part and bowling is bowling, however a board game store is asked to support a wider and more diverse table top community rather than one game with a specific rule set. You are certainly correct in saying the barrier to entry is lower, but board game stores have to find a way to monetize the value they provide to those board gamers. It’s not an easy thing to do, but I would absolutely pay a monthly membership fee for a game store that meets my “space” needs.
Always love this conversation and there is so many other places to go. I’ve always wondered what other value add products or services a game store could provide. Can you charge a small fee for high level demos followed by a discount for the game? Could your CCG/LCG subscriptions work for board games for certain publishers or designers? Creating an engaging enough space that people would want to host events, such as birthdays or other celebrations. After school or summer programs/camps for kids? Idk what works and what doesn’t but I appreciate TC speaking on this topic so frequently. It will certainly be a defining problem for the table top industry over the next 5-10 years!
On the topic of a third space, I feel like more and more cities have expanded, relying more and more on cars for transport. However, growing up now, you can't drive and so your third space has become the internet, which trains kids more and more you don't need to meet in person unless there's an incentive.
Not gonna lie, the “smash the like button” always reminds me to Like the video.
In the wargaming hobby, a third space due paying club is common in the EU, especially the UK. As stated around 1:18:00, this is particularly driven by the fact that homes in the EU/UK are smaller than in North America, so they needed to find somewhere to play. Retail real estate is also a lot more expensive, so only really high end stores have dedicated play space.
Guys, you should sign an endorsement deal with Smoothie King. I literally stopped by Smoothie King as I listened to your podcast in the car.
Is it better to run waveshaper or sorcerer in waveshaper deck? I like the later card draw better then waveshaper ability i think. Hot take?? Deck remains same otherwise.
I wish you guys uploaded these in the podcast platforms. I could listen to you all day but don’t want to do it with my screen on 😅
Completely understand! You're not alone in wanting some or all of these livestreams as podcasts. We're looking into it. Stay tuned!
I love playing games casually with my friends, however I genuinely hate tournaments. Always have, and I have won a few in my time including nationals of the game I play (v:tes) also a bunch of magic ones. I have never once enjoyed myself in a tournament situation. I will play casual at a friends place all day but I never want to set foot in a tournament ever again. Saying that there are some full art promos coming up you can only get at a tourny.... it is tempting me. I dunno, perhaps some people don't enjoy the tournament environment and that little extra incentive brings those people in.
This is me also. The only reason I even consider playing at LGS tournament events is because there's promo packs. And it's not that I have no chance at winning prizes, it's just the whole atmosphere of competitive "play to win prizes" event is not appealing to me. People get tense and stressed and get upset when they lose, it sucks. I need my games to be chill and fun. I want to be able to crack jokes and discuss play moves. I obviously can't do it when my opponent is nervously shuffling their hand. The problem is that most LGS don't seem to be interested in running casual play events. I'm not saying tournaments with prizes shouldn't exist, I get it that some people enjoy that scene and need that as motivation to play. I just wish there were options other than that.
With SWU I ended up buying a lot of cards from those promo packs online, because the only option to get them at LGS was to play in a tournament and I didn't want to do it. And it's irrelevant to me how little the event cost, it's the fact that it's a _competitive_ event that I don't want to partake in. I would pay a fee to attend a casual game night, even if there's no promo packs.
BTW SWU promo packs don't just have color border. In those packs you can get hyperspace versions of cards exclusive to the 2 player starter. AND alternative art cards, both in hyperspace and truly gorgeous hyperspace ripple foil.
@@Kickyboots1207 The stores around here are giving out SWU Weekly Play packs for just showing up and playing - no competitive participation necessary. The official SWU site actually suggests that the Weekly Play packs be used for 'hang out' casual games and 'open play' nights (they're not called "Tournament Packs").
The issue here is the way that your LGS is distributing them.
I've been having this conversation with people for a few years now, around the time Tolarian Community College started saying "support your LGS".
I've been in tcg's for nearly 30 years and in that time I've played in dozens and dozens of card shops. My argument to the "support your LGS" community is, what have they done to earn it? If a restaurant made the best food in the area but you're draped in b.o. the whole time then you likely won't bother going there.
Honestly, I've played in every kind of store at this point and a good portion of them were total dumps. Just the smelliest, darkest, most cramped places you can imagine. Playing with some big sweaty dudes literally back to back for hours on end and we all did it for fun but I'm not about to continue on that way. I'm not suggesting that I need prize support, I don't even play competitively anymore but being comfortable shouldn't be a bonus.
I've played in YMCA basements, mom and pop shops, regional chains and not one thing is consistent from place to place. I don't know what the answer to this issue is but I know that the current system doesn't work or at least it won't work for the next 30 years.
I think Sorcery might have something with their crazy model. I love Erik's vision and if it just amounts to this one set then I'll play it forever but it's insane if they're in the business to make money. The same as any other physical hobby, you just provide the equipment and let the consumer figure it out, I mean that's how Magic started.
My side tangent on this specific example (SW:U) is how much "could" have been due to the shortage of cards?
like... if you can't buy product (all sold out)... then "random pack" if you show up for game night is the one thing you can do to add to your collection....
So is this example still valid across other games (FAB, pokemon, etc, etc)... or was it the lack of product in SW:U scenario that made it quite so dramatic?
My other thought is personally I'm just too dang busy to really get out to the LGS as often as I should... whether for a new TCG or a launch event or a casual event or an organized tournament... so I literally have to cherry pick the "best" event for me to support in a given month just due to scheduleing with work, family, friends, etc...
I think if we go back to your pub example... how many people can just "leave work" and go to the pub for a drink with co-workers or a "game" with friends at the LGS? vs how many people who'd love to get a pint or a pack or play in a casual event just can't get out on a random Tuesday or can't go straight from work to the shop or the pub for a game with "like-minded-folks"...
So I feel like it is our culture of "go-go-go" and being too busy that prevents us from "just" going to the LGS (or the pub) to hang out with people who could be friends that we just haven't met yet.
The promo packs are plentiful in my area for SWU, but that doesn’t get me to go out unless there is an actual tournament for something else. I need the most minimal of stakes for me to justify driving an hour round trip when I have to be at work at 4 AM, and more of the promos ain’t it when I have close to 40 unopened ones.
Yeah, I've got 2 hours round trip 😬. Hard to get out for anything other than a Store Showdown, Prerelease or other tournament.
The 100k subs promo for us is we get to name your next kid(s) as a community :D
Covenant, have you all seen the Godzilla decks for Universus? Attack on Titan is coming. Maybe a subscription for Universus challenger decks?
Did you guys ever dabble in the idea of Gloomhaven back in the day?
Sorry for the string of comments; I'm firing them off as I watch. Packs were much more valuable when I was younger and my disposable income was a lot less. Now that I buy ccgs by the box and sometimes case, it has next to no value. There are old school and vintage mtg tournaments that players will pay hundreds of dollars to enter (NYSE VIII in June had a $500 entry fee, and they got a turnout of 109 players). The top prize was a Black Lotus, but the caliber of players and the pedigree of the tournament draws people even outside the country to play.
If your a good hearted person and make the choice to help everything and never harm anything, you are a hero and are walking the best path that you possibly can. God bless everyone and everything ❤
At this stage in my hobbies, even a promo card isn't worth it to me. If I want it, I would rather pay for the card on the secondary market than show up and get it for free. The average gathering of randoms in public spaces (mainly game stores) is usually a net negative for me, even if I go with a group of friends. The only gatherings I will attend are high level competitive tournaments where I am looking for good competition. I don't care about the prizes. I'm there for the challenge. I am willing to suffer going to the store in order to get that competition. A few people in my various playgroups, including myself, have nice places in our homes that we can play. We have no problem with our friends bringing new people along with the assumption that they will be a good fit.
Regarding game stores, there are a bunch of issues. Many stores are dark poorly laid out clubhouses. Many players that have no concept of hygiene. Some players that have no sense of social decorum, saying sexist, homophobic, or generally disparaging comments to fellow players. I'm fine with a little ribbing between players, but I don't need to play against Dice Clay. Some players are salty try-hards that can't handle being beat. It's also infuriating when store owners and/or employees refuse to deal with the above players, simply standing behind the counter acting like nothing is happening.
There is a store a town over that has a private game room you can rent with a good game table, and we've paid and used it a couple of times when nobody's house was available. The biggest problem with game stores are the random bad players and the stores not willing to cut them off for fear of losing a customer, which is short sighted because it often ends up costing them more customers in the long run.
So vast majority of people aren't playing unlimited. Just trying to get promo cards to sell.
Huh? The most expensive SWU Weekly Play promo is $3 unless you pull a foil variant which would be exceedingly rare and, even then, that's worth a whopping $5. Not really worth it from a time-investment perspective as there are much more lucrative ways to spend your time.
Even a Store Showdown Top 8 promo is $11 and that's for hours of play (again, there are much easier ways to make money).
@@stropes. It's literally early in the video and bookmarked. Local scene collapsed from 40 down to 5 once the promos were gone.
@@ccgear4367 They never state that they were there for cards to resell. That's not in the video anywhere.
It also doesn't make any sense at all due to the value of the cards in question (see above).
"Achievements" is exactly the right word for it. I first got introduced to that in World of Warcraft and I found it to be so strange. Even more on Playstation etc. You played through a game --> Achievement. It turns even non competitive things into competitive spaces. Now TCGs are mostly played to win and thats fair but the fun of playing shouldn't be competitive. "Look I have so many promos I enjoy this game way more than you who only sits at home and looks at the cards."
Magic the Gathering has ultimately monetized this via the "Secret Lair" a horrible, attrocious, cynical and greedy monstrosity of a product for something that once was a game.
At the moment I think Sorcery has a fair level of promo cards. It's not too much and some like Curio cards are super rare and SUPER expensive. But at the same time the focus still is on the regular cards I think.