Pulled the trigger and got a 7851. Soon as I powered it up I started receiving a transmission in the 40 meter band from North Carolina, about 3000 miles away. Here's the intriguing part. I hadn't hooked it up to the antenna yet. Yes, I would say it can pull in those hard to receive signals. Can't wait to see what it does with an antenna hooked up! The only downside is, I think I got a hernia getting it out of the box. It is a heavy unit.
A great side by side review. I’ve had the IC7800 since 2008. It is still performing and never fails to impress. Thank you for taking the time for this demonstration. M0DSK
Very nice video. I have watched it many times. The 7610 is jumps and leaps from what I had in the past. TS480, Icom7100, Icom7410. I can run the 7610 and I very seldom have someone I can not contact. I use the RX ant. with a RX only Mag loop. This alone was the biggest jump in me getting around local noise. Before I could not find any way around it. Its only 100watts, but it feels like much more compared to my older radios. I do have 600watt amp , but I never use it. I havent turned it on in 4-6 months. This radio just gets the contacts. And once you get the radio, understand how and what you need to do. It is the best thing I have ever used on HF. 73
Hitting the Multi button top right near the screen will net RF pwr-Mic gain, Digi sel ,notch-notch activation and width and Monitor. Likewise hitting the quick button on the bottom brings you to a sub menu that has a "drive gain" selection that pops up a mini menu as previous mentioned.
As always a great fair side by side comparison, so a huge thank you for that Bob. As a current 7610 owner coming up from the 7300, I can see where the 7851 excels now. In truth I’m very satisfied with the 7610. However if the day ever comes I would get the 7851 but I would need to be out of the urban environment that I’m currently in. I’d want that radio on the air far away from pesky neighbors and their electrical noise to fully enjoy that low noise floor.
Andi- Well, truthfully, I will sell the 7851 and keep the 7610 because it is just too much money to keep in one radio. It is not easy to downgrade.. luckily it is a small step.
Nice review. Thanks. I've got my eye on a new 7851. Expensive? Yes... but only live once! 😊 Having aquired a 7800 a year or so ago, and loving the ease of operation, the upgrade to the 7851 would be fantastic. I have both the 7800, and a Yaesu FTDx101D (three years old). Both radios are fantastic, but over the last couple of years, operating both (daily), I have come to really like the 7800 better. The audio is much "easier" on the ears (the 101D is a bit harsh), and having all of the needed controls right up front (without touching menu screens) is really handy. Of course, the 101D is much improved in the selectivity, and the scope [speed] is a huge improvement over the 7800, but i sure like running the 7800! Plus, it's nice having the 200w on-tap when I don't want to fire up an amplifier. That's why I'm leaning towards a new 7851, and probably selling the 101D. 73 from west Texas!
I hear you! We ain't getting any younger! That said, I let the 7851 go and kept the 7610 for the following reasons: The newer SDR technology actually produces a better sounding receive audio. The 7851 is REALLY heavy and hard to physically manage or ship. The transmit audio is also better on the 7610 SDR. Everything else is virtually identical at $10K less money. Like any energy conversion system (from RF to AF and visa-versa), the less conversions you need to make the trip, the more efficient and higher fidelity the system is (2nd law of thermodynamics). SDR is like digital windex. You feel one whole layer closer to the original signal. It is a simpler and more elegant system. Sure there is prestige to the 7851, but it's soon to be a giant expensive antique with the release of Icom's 55 year anniversary flagship. That radio will be an SDR... and an amazing one. (my theory) It's really the difference between a Corvette and a Tesla model 3. We are used to the smoke and noise..and like it. But the Tesla is a better performer at a third the price.
I owned a 7610 (upgrade from a 7300) and it's absolutely fantastic. I could however not get used to the graphic screen menu, there are to many steps to get to whatever setting you want. I now own a TS 990 which has knobs and buttons for everything and I personally love that. The 7851 is absolutely gorgeous and I'm sure it is a fantastic performer. Nice video Bob! Thanks! 73
Dreaming vs Reality.. I love ICOM, got a new 765 when I got my Extra ticket back in the day (still got it) then a 7600, 7300, now considering the 7610, compared with the new 7760. I'm like you, I actually love all the bells and whistles of the 7851. If I had one I don't think I could part with it. Menu-driven SDR is the current trend, but I would rather fondle with all the buttons and knobs, for functionality of course! The 7760 looks like your using a mobile control-head model and mostly geared for contesting. Was hoping for a 7860? (7851 on SDR steroids) I can't imagine the price tag ICOM would want for one. So, 7610 will have to fit the bill for now. Enjoyed your comparison video.
For the cost of that thing a man could buy a 7610, 1500 watt amp, tower, antenna, coax, tuner, and still take a nice vacation to Mexico and’s still have a little pocket change left.
Same here. My 7300 has been an excellent transceiver and is loads of fun to use. I'd love to have a 7610 but it just isn't in the budget and I'm not going to spend what I don't have.
@@ko4otv43 Only thing I wish Icom would have included in the 7300 is backlit keys. From a design standpoint it would have added maybe another $5 to the cost (if that much) by including laser cut keys and SMT led's behind them. But hey, if that's the worst I can say about the 7300 that means it's a pretty good radio 👍
Great review and an extremely fair comparison! I own both rigs and enjoy them both. The selectivity of the 7851 is evident mainly in contesting CW conditions on crowded bands. The APF seems to work better on the 7610 but you can designate the digi-sel to tune the APF like the 7610. I prefer the 7851 ergonomics over the 7610 - the menu system of the 7610 is a bit confusing to me. Bob - enjoy both rigs! They are the cream of the cream!
Absolutely. I failed to mention that the receiver difference results in my being able to work 5 watt stations right next to BIG signals on SSB. You actually Can work more stations with the 7851. Keeping both here...man, can I rationalize that? Ha. Just got in the FTdx-10 and did the review on it. Pretty neat radio too. Dam good RX. 73's Bob
@@robertnagy2163 Don't rush the decision on what to keep - all have a purpose in one's ham shack! Enjoy them for a while and then decide, if you can. Keep producing these great videos - I really enjoy your comparisons.
10 band buttons on the 7610 that coulda been dual purpose with a long press. That would have cut short some of the menu intensity. I like the 7300 button complement better. Icom should have kept all of those & added to them. I also notice on my 7610 display that some letters & numbers do not render very well. 2s & 3s and vertical lines characters are not fully rendered with missing pixels or washed out. Looks like the 7851 is more like my TS890S which has a slightly larger & better quality screen. Great review as always.
Thanks for this video. A couple comments: I listened several times through each receiver demonstration and I could tell zero advantages towards the 7851. This is pretty common from testing I've done as well on the bands in the real world with various radios. All the sensitivity in the world means very little on HF when were most often noise limited, or maybe more accurately, interference limited. I good directional antenna can be more helpful sometimes! I was hoping to see how the 7851 was better dealing with that with its selectivity, but didn't really see that here. I even preferred the 7610's CW filtering and sound over what I heard, as did you I believe. I have made a career field testing of various types of radios in live conditions over the decades and have seen in most cases, the highest rated receivers in the lab don't really make all that much difference in the real world, and some actually fall short for various reasons (some you alluded to). I do own a 7610 now, and have for a couple years. I have a few contests and Field Days under my belt with it, and agree 100% about the Digi-Sel tracking bandpass filters being absolutely crucial in a multi-multi environment. Tremendous difference to the point the other stations' desense from other bands is completely mitigated. I also own a Flex, and I find I spend most of my time on the 7610, but I do find some of the features of the Flex handy at other times. AM on the Flex (transmit and receive) is far superior, for instance. Graphical filter adjustment is a breeze as well. I would love to see Icom integrate graphical filter on the 7610's screen using the USB mouse on the rig. Lastly, I don't follow the comments about mic gain (one press of the multi-knob gets you there), and the same with the VFO/Memory change (one press of the Quick button gets you there). I have had several Icoms in the past, and still run a couple 7000s for mobile and portable use sometimes, but the menu are quite different on the 7610, yet I find it far easier than most other rigs to use. Long presses of on screen buttons for example take you right where you need quickly without having dedicated HW buttons, and change based on mode. Very handy, IMHO. Press & hold the S-meter to get the to multi-function meter quickly from the large spectrum scope, for example. Press & hold the M. Scope button to get back. Press & hold the AGC on screen button to get to its adjustment screen, and again, press & hold the M. Scope or Exit button to get back. Very easy to navigate around things you need quickly using the touch screen buttons. There may be a lot of short cuts you're missing out on! Thanks again and 73!
Indeed there is little difference in these top shelf receivers when in use. The 7851 has a slight selectivity advantage. For me that is very slight in my "average ham's" usage patterns. I will say that my preference for the SDR's is in the flatter receive passband. For various reasons, there is more roll-off in the bottom ant top end on the Superhets. There is also a "smoothing' of the audio that happens through stages of superhet. Filter delays etc. all contribute to a less visceral sound once it hits the AF section. To me it's the old 2nd law of thermodynamics at play. We just have less conversions between converting RF energy to AF energy in an SDR. A more direct path results in better system fidelity, I'm looking forward to seeing what ADC etc. Flex has implemented in their new 8000 series. May need to trade-in my Anan 7000 DLE II.
Great Videos Bob, I was thinking I'd try a 7610 and give it a whirl, Im a Elecraft Guy moved over from Icom 20+ years ago. After watching, I think I'm gonna stay put... to many menus BTW The 10 mhz ref clock you mentioned at 3:13 is for frequency stability, not to set the CLOCK... Thanks for saving me buyers remorse--73! K2WW
Yup, If i was an elecraft guy, I'd stay with them. Have had a KX-1, KX3...superbly quiet receivers. On the 10 mhz ref- I was speaking in the purest way- 'Clock" meaning the motherboard's clock...the prime oscillator. Sure would like to take a test drive on the K4. Might be my next rig.
Bob, what did you decide with the IC-7851? I have a IC-7851 on order, because I have a penchant for big transceivers, but sometimes find myself second guessing (I already have a TS-990S and Yaesu 5K in the station). The figures for the FTDX-101 look great on paper and on Sherwood's List, but reading your comments about the FTDX-101 vs the IC-7610, you pointed out some flaws I couldn't live with either. I don't see too much in the pipeline these days from the Japanese. The K4 seems nice, but its seems sparse and utilitarian.
Greetings! Well, I sold the 7851. Why? #1 reason was concern about repairs. My wife and I could barely lift it into it's birth in the comm center. Shipping these days is really high. #2 was that my ears are old and I needed the more visceral sound of a SDR (7610). It's just more articulated. It also has more top-end. I'm not a contester, I'm just an old Ham who will buy anything that gives me pleasure. The only thing I see coming is Icom's 55 year anniversary top-end radio. Designers are waiting for affordable 24 bit A to D chips that will allow native dynamic range of over 125dB. We are almost there. Then it is game-over for superhets. The future is infinite, but we are not. So we enjoy the best of the best in the time we have left. It's a beast..the 7851. You'll love it. (and PS: If you want to experience the best performance period, try an Anan 7000 DLE II. Sure, it has no knobs, but what it does is truly amazing)
@@Yavor54 I received the IC-7851, been in my station now for a while. It's everything I expected and more. A wonderful operating experience. I also own a Flex 5000A, using the KE9NS version of PowerSDR. It's fantastic, listening and adjusting the plethora of controls and visual attributes is good old fashioned ham radio fun. I agree with you regarding the Anan SDR transceivers. They are on the top of my list of a new SDR to upgrade from the Flex 5000a, seriously considering the new Anan G2.
@Robert Nagy - Hi Robert, have you noticed on your 7610 if it has any drive gain issues with 7610 not putting out a full 100 watts PEP on SSB at all? most people seem to be getting 30-40 watts SSB and if they do adjust it higher than 50%, the TX signal seems splattery. I'm torn between the 7610 and going back to a 590SG
The average SSB power output on most SDR radios seems to be generally lower than traditional radios. They have to be SO sure not to over-drive digital stages so they run them conservatively. Peak powers are normal, it is the average power levels that seem lower.
Szervusz kedves Robi ! Ismét nagy örömmel hallgattam élvezetes előadásodat. Különlegesen tehetséges vagy rádió összehasonlításban. Ezzel együtt megerősítetted korábbi saját megfigyelésemet, miszerint a fejlettebb rádiók nem feltétlenül kellemesebb hangúak. Jól emlékszem, az özönvíz előtt volt egy IC-751-em. Nagyon régi, eléggé zajos, a szelektivitása sem volt jó, de a hangja sokkal jobb volt mint az SDR vevőké. Mai napig is lenyűgöz az FT-817 rendkívüli érzékenységével és hangjával - analóg persze - mindaddig nagyszerű vevő, amíg meg nem jelenik egy erős állomás frekvenciában közel. Remek összehasonlítás, köszönöm !
Egyetértek. Volt egy IC-751-em, és a hangja éles és tiszta volt. Ezenkívül a füled minden embertől különbözik. Jobban szeretem a magas frekvenciájú hangzást. A basszus is jó! Ezért használok háromutas PC hangszórórendszert minden rádiómon. Szeretem a Logitech modelleket. Csodálatos hangzás. Hosszú évek óta először használtam a Ft-817-emet...és még mindig csodálatos rádió. Kérjük, nézze meg a QRP Labs QRP rádióit Törökországból... Nagy móka. 73- Bob
@@BubbaWarbucks Yeah, I had to zero-out the accounts to get this one. There is literally nothing in my wallet! I got a great deal though and will probably sell it before the warranty expires.
Hi Bob. Nice review. You didn’t mention the fiber optics on 7851. I have had an IC 7851 for several years. You also didn’t mention that the 7851 is hand crafted. You did mention the 1.2 roofing filter it’s an outstanding feature that 7610 can’t compare with. If you are into contesting or chasing DX the 7851 is worth the money. If you are a casual operator the 7610 is all you need. 73. Dave WA6DKN. Again good review.
Robert: In the video you said you used a studio quality mic and did not notice much difference. I was wondering, what mic were you using and if you were using a mixer and what brand/model you were using. I usually use headsets because I am legally deaf, but I have the basic setup for a studio mic and wanted to see what you suggested.
The absolutely best bang for the $$ is a combination of a AT-2035 mic and a Behringer DSP110 "Shark" to run it. the Sharks are discontinued but all over Ebay. It has a great compressor and noise gate in it. The Mic is not expensive... look for a deal.
@@Yavor54 Thanks for the reply Bob! I have a Heil PR-781G and a Behringer Xenyx Mixer. I have thought about putting one of the Heil IC Microphones on my other Icoms, but I may run them all off of a single mic and a mixer.
Great comparison. One error, though. Being a touch screen doesn't change the blacks. Samsung OLED phones have the deep blacks and they're touch screens. The key is OLED and calibration.
i had both radios and sold the IC 7610. the IC 7610 failed because of my 3 element for 40 fullsize. The IC 7851 won in all disciplines....The RX from the IC 7610 goes under unter my Full-Size Yagi... OW OW Oh Mama, Help me :D
I agree, the 7851 is a more robust receiver. If you are not a contester and have average antennas, the 7610 performs well. The RX audio is "crisper" in the 7610 and this helps my old ears. I was also worried about having a problem with the 7851 and the shipping costs. I could barely pick it up!
Most of the Top HF/50MHz SDR Radios use a Mixer . All Yaesu's Top FTdx10, , FTdx101D, FTdx 101MP , Icom's Top SDR 7851 & Elecraft Model K4HD & Kenwood TS-990S, TS-890S, TS-590SG All use Mixers in there top HF radios!
All the Kenwood radios are superhets. The IC-7851 is a superhet. Of course they have mixers. They are all yesterday's technology. The Elecraft K4HD, IC-7300, IC-7610 are direct sampling SDR radios like the Flex and Anan- no mixers in their receive chains. (AKA "The Future")
That was in the city. I have a very high noise level here. These radios should act similarly in the most challenging condition: Multi-Station contest. They both have the same Digi-Sel tracking front-end pre-selector. The 7851 has just a tad more selectivity generally, but the 7610 has a much more articulated RX sound due to the fact that it is a much shorter path from RF to AF in a SDR than in a superhet. As well, the 14 bit Digital path in the 7610 produces a fantastic TX signal. It is virtually identical to the IC-7300. For my older ears, the 7610 produces a more understandable RX sound...better fidelity.
I would get a apache labs or flex instead of a 7851, higher score on sherwood engineering site and less expensive... I do not think any radios can be justified at that price, top radio on sherwood is more than half the price and better speced...
Bob Nagy I Have exact same Black Cat!! Wow, John Bernays just Wagging The Cat atcha! Yes, I am still alive (74 Years Old ) and finally got a Room where I can Make SWL receiver out side 5 Windows and a Fire Escape high up Top of Building facing East. I let my Ham Technician License retire 11-28-2020 because I thought the Hotel would Never Put me into a Good Room, but after 12 Years I am Ready, problem is Senility. I ordered the Tecsun H501 Digital Worldband AM/FM Shortwave Longwave Radio with SSB Reception, Dual Speakers, & MP3 Player, Matte Black for SWL. Tecsun H501 Digital Worldband AM/FM Shortwave Longwave Radio with SSB Reception, Dual Speakers, & MP3 Player, Matte Black Buy it again
Johnny! -Great to hear that you are still kicking around. Your Siltronics 1011D is long gone from the pawn shop on Ouachita... they folded. Still running my FM station in the next storefront to the right. Same crap here in HS.... Wayne, JM and Bob King are still the three top hombraes. 146.88 is still there... and my group of silly operators is on our system on 145.625. Nothing to report here except old age and failing biosystems. the Tecsun RX's are just fine... but too sensitive. No antenna longer then 20 ft on them. I've done reviews of them too. Take care! Blob ruclips.net/video/rJL3Q_3vI1M/видео.html
The 7851 sounds like garbage compared to the 7610 and also I wouldn’t doubt old Sherwood makes a few bucks off his reviews. Nobody wants to admit the SDR sounds better for a 6th of the price. A few more shiny knobs a maybe a micro hair less noise. But in no comparison have I seen where the 7851 outshines the 7610. $14k sure I could buy one but my wife would kick my ass. $2800 I’m ok and I’m happy
Pulled the trigger and got a 7851. Soon as I powered it up I started receiving a transmission in the 40 meter band from North Carolina, about 3000 miles away. Here's the intriguing part. I hadn't hooked it up to the antenna yet. Yes, I would say it can pull in those hard to receive signals. Can't wait to see what it does with an antenna hooked up! The only downside is, I think I got a hernia getting it out of the box. It is a heavy unit.
Thank God it came with the rack handles! Congrats, and it without a doubt is worth every penny. 73.
Did it come with a car and 12 months mortgage?
A great side by side review.
I’ve had the IC7800 since 2008. It is still performing and never fails to impress.
Thank you for taking the time for this demonstration.
M0DSK
Very nice video. I have watched it many times. The 7610 is jumps and leaps from what I had in the past. TS480, Icom7100, Icom7410. I can run the 7610 and I very seldom have someone I can not contact. I use the RX ant. with a RX only Mag loop. This alone was the biggest jump in me getting around local noise. Before I could not find any way around it.
Its only 100watts, but it feels like much more compared to my older radios. I do have 600watt amp , but I never use it. I havent turned it on in 4-6 months. This radio just gets the contacts.
And once you get the radio, understand how and what you need to do. It is the best thing I have ever used on HF.
73
Finally we come to a comparison of two great radio's well said Bob
Hitting the Multi button top right near the screen will net RF pwr-Mic gain, Digi sel ,notch-notch activation and width and Monitor. Likewise hitting the quick button on the bottom brings you to a sub menu that has a "drive gain" selection that pops up a mini menu as previous mentioned.
As always a great fair side by side comparison, so a huge thank you for that Bob. As a current 7610 owner coming up from the 7300, I can see where the 7851 excels now. In truth I’m very satisfied with the 7610. However if the day ever comes I would get the 7851 but I would need to be out of the urban environment that I’m currently in. I’d want that radio on the air far away from pesky neighbors and their electrical noise to fully enjoy that low noise floor.
Andi- Well, truthfully, I will sell the 7851 and keep the 7610 because it is just too much money to keep in one radio. It is not easy to downgrade.. luckily it is a small step.
Nice review. Thanks. I've got my eye on a new 7851. Expensive? Yes... but only live once! 😊
Having aquired a 7800 a year or so ago, and loving the ease of operation, the upgrade to the 7851 would be fantastic.
I have both the 7800, and a Yaesu FTDx101D (three years old). Both radios are fantastic, but over the last couple of years, operating both (daily), I have come to really like the 7800 better. The audio is much "easier" on the ears (the 101D is a bit harsh), and having all of the needed controls right up front (without touching menu screens) is really handy. Of course, the 101D is much improved in the selectivity, and the scope [speed] is a huge improvement over the 7800, but i sure like running the 7800! Plus, it's nice having the 200w on-tap when I don't want to fire up an amplifier. That's why I'm leaning towards a new 7851, and probably selling the 101D.
73 from west Texas!
I hear you! We ain't getting any younger! That said, I let the 7851 go and kept the 7610 for the following reasons: The newer SDR technology actually produces a better sounding receive audio. The 7851 is REALLY heavy and hard to physically manage or ship. The transmit audio is also better on the 7610 SDR. Everything else is virtually identical at $10K less money. Like any energy conversion system (from RF to AF and visa-versa), the less conversions you need to make the trip, the more efficient and higher fidelity the system is (2nd law of thermodynamics). SDR is like digital windex. You feel one whole layer closer to the original signal. It is a simpler and more elegant system. Sure there is prestige to the 7851, but it's soon to be a giant expensive antique with the release of Icom's 55 year anniversary flagship. That radio will be an SDR... and an amazing one. (my theory) It's really the difference between a Corvette and a Tesla model 3. We are used to the smoke and noise..and like it. But the Tesla is a better performer at a third the price.
I owned a 7610 (upgrade from a 7300) and it's absolutely fantastic. I could however not get used to the graphic screen menu, there are to many steps to get to whatever setting you want. I now own a TS 990 which has knobs and buttons for everything and I personally love that. The 7851 is absolutely gorgeous and I'm sure it is a fantastic performer. Nice video Bob! Thanks! 73
Dreaming vs Reality.. I love ICOM, got a new 765 when I got my Extra ticket back in the day (still got it) then a 7600, 7300, now considering the 7610, compared with the new 7760. I'm like you, I actually love all the bells and whistles of the 7851. If I had one I don't think I could part with it. Menu-driven SDR is the current trend, but I would rather fondle with all the buttons and knobs, for functionality of course! The 7760 looks like your using a mobile control-head model and mostly geared for contesting. Was hoping for a 7860? (7851 on SDR steroids) I can't imagine the price tag ICOM would want for one. So, 7610 will have to fit the bill for now. Enjoyed your comparison video.
$10K can provide some wonderful antennas and a great linear amplifier. Considerations for those of us with an overall budget.
For the cost of that thing a man could buy a 7610, 1500 watt amp, tower, antenna, coax, tuner, and still take a nice vacation to Mexico and’s still have a little pocket change left.
I love these radio's but I am extremely happy with my 7300!
And be happy. That radio is a little bit of magic.
@@robertnagy2163 you got that right!
Same here. My 7300 has been an excellent transceiver and is loads of fun to use. I'd love to have a 7610 but it just isn't in the budget and I'm not going to spend what I don't have.
@@ComputerLearning0 Yeah I hear you. Same here just doesn't seem like I would really be gaining that much more for $2k more than the 7300
@@ko4otv43 Only thing I wish Icom would have included in the 7300 is backlit keys. From a design standpoint it would have added maybe another $5 to the cost (if that much) by including laser cut keys and SMT led's behind them. But hey, if that's the worst I can say about the 7300 that means it's a pretty good radio 👍
Great review and an extremely fair comparison! I own both rigs and enjoy them both. The selectivity of the 7851 is evident mainly in contesting CW conditions on crowded bands. The APF seems to work better on the 7610 but you can designate the digi-sel to tune the APF like the 7610. I prefer the 7851 ergonomics over the 7610 - the menu system of the 7610 is a bit confusing to me. Bob - enjoy both rigs! They are the cream of the cream!
Absolutely. I failed to mention that the receiver difference results in my being able to work 5 watt stations right next to BIG signals on SSB. You actually Can work more stations with the 7851. Keeping both here...man, can I rationalize that? Ha. Just got in the FTdx-10 and did the review on it. Pretty neat radio too. Dam good RX. 73's Bob
@@robertnagy2163 Don't rush the decision on what to keep - all have a purpose in one's ham shack! Enjoy them for a while and then decide, if you can. Keep producing these great videos - I really enjoy your comparisons.
Thanks for the interesting review, Robert. I heard some harmonic distortion on the audio from the 7851 on CW and single tones.......
Indeed the SDR is just cleaner all-around. The 7851 went way... 7610 is still here.
10 band buttons on the 7610 that coulda been dual purpose with a long press. That would have cut short some of the menu intensity. I like the 7300 button complement better. Icom should have kept all of those & added to them. I also notice on my 7610 display that some letters & numbers do not render very well. 2s & 3s and vertical lines characters are not fully rendered with missing pixels or washed out. Looks like the 7851 is more like my TS890S which has a slightly larger & better quality screen. Great review as always.
Thanks for this video. A couple comments: I listened several times through each receiver demonstration and I could tell zero advantages towards the 7851. This is pretty common from testing I've done as well on the bands in the real world with various radios. All the sensitivity in the world means very little on HF when were most often noise limited, or maybe more accurately, interference limited. I good directional antenna can be more helpful sometimes! I was hoping to see how the 7851 was better dealing with that with its selectivity, but didn't really see that here. I even preferred the 7610's CW filtering and sound over what I heard, as did you I believe. I have made a career field testing of various types of radios in live conditions over the decades and have seen in most cases, the highest rated receivers in the lab don't really make all that much difference in the real world, and some actually fall short for various reasons (some you alluded to).
I do own a 7610 now, and have for a couple years. I have a few contests and Field Days under my belt with it, and agree 100% about the Digi-Sel tracking bandpass filters being absolutely crucial in a multi-multi environment. Tremendous difference to the point the other stations' desense from other bands is completely mitigated. I also own a Flex, and I find I spend most of my time on the 7610, but I do find some of the features of the Flex handy at other times. AM on the Flex (transmit and receive) is far superior, for instance. Graphical filter adjustment is a breeze as well. I would love to see Icom integrate graphical filter on the 7610's screen using the USB mouse on the rig.
Lastly, I don't follow the comments about mic gain (one press of the multi-knob gets you there), and the same with the VFO/Memory change (one press of the Quick button gets you there). I have had several Icoms in the past, and still run a couple 7000s for mobile and portable use sometimes, but the menu are quite different on the 7610, yet I find it far easier than most other rigs to use. Long presses of on screen buttons for example take you right where you need quickly without having dedicated HW buttons, and change based on mode. Very handy, IMHO. Press & hold the S-meter to get the to multi-function meter quickly from the large spectrum scope, for example. Press & hold the M. Scope button to get back. Press & hold the AGC on screen button to get to its adjustment screen, and again, press & hold the M. Scope or Exit button to get back. Very easy to navigate around things you need quickly using the touch screen buttons. There may be a lot of short cuts you're missing out on!
Thanks again and 73!
Indeed there is little difference in these top shelf receivers when in use. The 7851 has a slight selectivity advantage. For me that is very slight in my "average ham's" usage patterns. I will say that my preference for the SDR's is in the flatter receive passband. For various reasons, there is more roll-off in the bottom ant top end on the Superhets. There is also a "smoothing' of the audio that happens through stages of superhet. Filter delays etc. all contribute to a less visceral sound once it hits the AF section. To me it's the old 2nd law of thermodynamics at play. We just have less conversions between converting RF energy to AF energy in an SDR. A more direct path results in better system fidelity, I'm looking forward to seeing what ADC etc. Flex has implemented in their new 8000 series. May need to trade-in my Anan 7000 DLE II.
Great Videos Bob, I was thinking I'd try a 7610 and give it a whirl, Im a Elecraft Guy moved over from Icom 20+ years ago. After watching, I think I'm gonna stay put... to many menus
BTW The 10 mhz ref clock you mentioned at 3:13 is for frequency stability, not to set the CLOCK...
Thanks for saving me buyers remorse--73! K2WW
Yup, If i was an elecraft guy, I'd stay with them. Have had a KX-1, KX3...superbly quiet receivers. On the 10 mhz ref- I was speaking in the purest way- 'Clock" meaning the motherboard's clock...the prime oscillator. Sure would like to take a test drive on the K4. Might be my next rig.
@@Yavor54 I really meant that about the 7610, You saves me from some buyers remorse! Keep up the videos, they are great!
Bob, what did you decide with the IC-7851? I have a IC-7851 on order, because I have a penchant for big transceivers, but sometimes find myself second guessing (I already have a TS-990S and Yaesu 5K in the station). The figures for the FTDX-101 look great on paper and on Sherwood's List, but reading your comments about the FTDX-101 vs the IC-7610, you pointed out some flaws I couldn't live with either. I don't see too much in the pipeline these days from the Japanese. The K4 seems nice, but its seems sparse and utilitarian.
Greetings! Well, I sold the 7851. Why? #1 reason was concern about repairs. My wife and I could barely lift it into it's birth in the comm center. Shipping these days is really high. #2 was that my ears are old and I needed the more visceral sound of a SDR (7610). It's just more articulated. It also has more top-end. I'm not a contester, I'm just an old Ham who will buy anything that gives me pleasure. The only thing I see coming is Icom's 55 year anniversary top-end radio. Designers are waiting for affordable 24 bit A to D chips that will allow native dynamic range of over 125dB. We are almost there. Then it is game-over for superhets. The future is infinite, but we are not. So we enjoy the best of the best in the time we have left. It's a beast..the 7851. You'll love it. (and PS: If you want to experience the best performance period, try an Anan 7000 DLE II. Sure, it has no knobs, but what it does is truly amazing)
@@Yavor54 I received the IC-7851, been in my station now for a while. It's everything I expected and more. A wonderful operating experience. I also own a Flex 5000A, using the KE9NS version of PowerSDR. It's fantastic, listening and adjusting the plethora of controls and visual attributes is good old fashioned ham radio fun.
I agree with you regarding the Anan SDR transceivers. They are on the top of my list of a new SDR to upgrade from the Flex 5000a, seriously considering the new Anan G2.
Great job! Excellent comparison
@Robert Nagy -
Hi Robert, have you noticed on your 7610 if it has any drive gain issues with 7610 not putting out a full 100 watts PEP on SSB at all? most people seem to be getting 30-40 watts SSB and if they do adjust it higher than 50%, the TX signal seems splattery. I'm torn between the 7610 and going back to a 590SG
The average SSB power output on most SDR radios seems to be generally lower than traditional radios. They have to be SO sure not to over-drive digital stages so they run them conservatively. Peak powers are normal, it is the average power levels that seem lower.
Szervusz kedves Robi ! Ismét nagy örömmel hallgattam élvezetes előadásodat. Különlegesen tehetséges vagy rádió összehasonlításban. Ezzel együtt megerősítetted korábbi saját megfigyelésemet, miszerint a fejlettebb rádiók nem feltétlenül kellemesebb hangúak. Jól emlékszem, az özönvíz előtt volt egy IC-751-em. Nagyon régi, eléggé zajos, a szelektivitása sem volt jó, de a hangja sokkal jobb volt mint az SDR vevőké. Mai napig is lenyűgöz az FT-817 rendkívüli érzékenységével és hangjával - analóg persze - mindaddig nagyszerű vevő, amíg meg nem jelenik egy erős állomás frekvenciában közel. Remek összehasonlítás, köszönöm !
Egyetértek. Volt egy IC-751-em, és a hangja éles és tiszta volt. Ezenkívül a füled minden embertől különbözik. Jobban szeretem a magas frekvenciájú hangzást. A basszus is jó! Ezért használok háromutas PC hangszórórendszert minden rádiómon. Szeretem a Logitech modelleket. Csodálatos hangzás. Hosszú évek óta először használtam a Ft-817-emet...és még mindig csodálatos rádió. Kérjük, nézze meg a QRP Labs QRP rádióit Törökországból... Nagy móka. 73- Bob
Just think of the antenna system you could put up with the difference in price between the two.
Oh yeah, but that system would have to be on acreage... Some 45G Rohn towers...giant log periodics....
@@robertnagy2163 Well those are about the only folks that can afford the 7851 to begin with, aren't they?
@@BubbaWarbucks Yeah, I had to zero-out the accounts to get this one. There is literally nothing in my wallet! I got a great deal though and will probably sell it before the warranty expires.
hi could you if possible do a revue of a sunsdr dx and maybe compare it to other sdr radios
I have to buy these radios, so I can only do so many! I would LOVE to review the Sun SDR. Я много знаю о русских!
Very nice video, Robert! I own a 7610 and is`s a newer style of radio with dito menu etc. You love it or you hate it..
Hi Bob. Nice review. You didn’t mention the fiber optics on 7851. I have had an IC 7851 for several years. You also didn’t mention that the 7851 is hand crafted. You did mention the 1.2 roofing filter it’s an outstanding feature that 7610 can’t compare with. If you are into contesting or chasing DX the 7851 is worth the money. If you are a casual operator the 7610 is all you need. 73. Dave WA6DKN. Again good review.
Did you sell the 7851? Am I crazy enough to buy it?
Robert: In the video you said you used a studio quality mic and did not notice much difference. I was wondering, what mic were you using and if you were using a mixer and what brand/model you were using. I usually use headsets because I am legally deaf, but I have the basic setup for a studio mic and wanted to see what you suggested.
The absolutely best bang for the $$ is a combination of a AT-2035 mic and a Behringer DSP110 "Shark" to run it. the Sharks are discontinued but all over Ebay. It has a great compressor and noise gate in it. The Mic is not expensive... look for a deal.
@@Yavor54 Thanks for the reply Bob! I have a Heil PR-781G and a Behringer Xenyx Mixer. I have thought about putting one of the Heil IC Microphones on my other Icoms, but I may run them all off of a single mic and a mixer.
Great comparison. One error, though. Being a touch screen doesn't change the blacks. Samsung OLED phones have the deep blacks and they're touch screens. The key is OLED and calibration.
i had both radios and sold the IC 7610. the IC 7610 failed because of my 3 element for 40 fullsize.
The IC 7851 won in all disciplines....The RX from the IC 7610 goes under unter my Full-Size Yagi... OW OW Oh Mama, Help me :D
I agree, the 7851 is a more robust receiver. If you are not a contester and have average antennas, the 7610 performs well. The RX audio is "crisper" in the 7610 and this helps my old ears. I was also worried about having a problem with the 7851 and the shipping costs. I could barely pick it up!
@Carrot Cruncher I don't see that at all on my display. Huh. If it does not effect operation, I'd live with it.
Most of the Top HF/50MHz SDR Radios use a Mixer . All Yaesu's Top FTdx10, , FTdx101D, FTdx 101MP , Icom's Top SDR 7851 & Elecraft
Model K4HD & Kenwood TS-990S, TS-890S, TS-590SG All use Mixers in there top HF radios!
All the Kenwood radios are superhets. The IC-7851 is a superhet. Of course they have mixers. They are all yesterday's technology. The Elecraft K4HD, IC-7300, IC-7610 are direct sampling SDR radios like the Flex and Anan- no mixers in their receive chains. (AKA "The Future")
Nice kitty.
unfair comparison,
I would like to test them in high noise environment inside the cities
That was in the city. I have a very high noise level here. These radios should act similarly in the most challenging condition: Multi-Station contest. They both have the same Digi-Sel tracking front-end pre-selector. The 7851 has just a tad more selectivity generally, but the 7610 has a much more articulated RX sound due to the fact that it is a much shorter path from RF to AF in a SDR than in a superhet. As well, the 14 bit Digital path in the 7610 produces a fantastic TX signal. It is virtually identical to the IC-7300. For my older ears, the 7610 produces a more understandable RX sound...better fidelity.
I would get a apache labs or flex instead of a 7851, higher score on sherwood engineering site and less expensive... I do not think any radios can be justified at that price, top radio on sherwood is more than half the price and better speced...
The Ui I found much better compared to flex+maestro
Bob Nagy I Have exact same Black Cat!! Wow, John Bernays just Wagging The Cat atcha! Yes, I am still alive (74 Years Old ) and finally got a Room where I can Make SWL receiver out side 5 Windows and a Fire Escape high up Top of Building facing East. I let my Ham Technician License retire 11-28-2020 because I thought the Hotel would Never Put me into a Good Room, but after 12 Years I am Ready, problem is Senility. I ordered the Tecsun H501 Digital Worldband AM/FM Shortwave Longwave Radio with SSB Reception, Dual Speakers, & MP3 Player, Matte Black for SWL.
Tecsun H501 Digital Worldband AM/FM Shortwave Longwave Radio with SSB Reception, Dual Speakers, & MP3 Player, Matte Black
Buy it again
Johnny! -Great to hear that you are still kicking around. Your Siltronics 1011D is long gone from the pawn shop on Ouachita... they folded. Still running my FM station in the next storefront to the right. Same crap here in HS.... Wayne, JM and Bob King are still the three top hombraes. 146.88 is still there... and my group of silly operators is on our system on 145.625. Nothing to report here except old age and failing biosystems. the Tecsun RX's are just fine... but too sensitive. No antenna longer then 20 ft on them. I've done reviews of them too. Take care! Blob ruclips.net/video/rJL3Q_3vI1M/видео.html
The 7851 sounds like garbage compared to the 7610 and also I wouldn’t doubt old Sherwood makes a few bucks off his reviews. Nobody wants to admit the SDR sounds better for a 6th of the price. A few more shiny knobs a maybe a micro hair less noise. But in no comparison have I seen where the 7851 outshines the 7610. $14k sure I could buy one but my wife would kick my ass. $2800 I’m ok and I’m happy
It does however. Glad you are happy.
Have been enjoying your videos. Thank you 73 de K4QJS