I did not expect you to discuss scaling the car down in this video after I commented with that idea. It is very awesome to see you taking suggestions directly from comments - Thank you!
@@Project66Hoon I think a lot of information you have in your head (like scaling will happen) is not communicated so youtube commenters are thinking you are insane. 🙂 which kind of is correct anyways, because this project is insane without a full donor chassis. mostly it's best to go from there if you have a timeframe you want to be finished. If the goal is the way and learn a lot, then keep on going 🙂
Love it. You actually design your suspension the long and difficult way. Building basic suspension is simple, but optimizing it introduces a lot of complexity, most people are completely ignorant of. The noobs care only about power at the crank, but without good suspension, all the engine power in the world is useless.
I am a rally driver and test driver, working on car development in a performance setting is part of my job. Let me know if you want to have a chat as theres a lot of things I could comment on. Respect the continued commitment on the build as this is for sure my favorite car in Cyberpunk!
This is really interesting to watch. I have no knowledge in how suspension and the handling of a car is made, but I do love Cyperpunk and it's astetics. So not only do I get to watch education videos, I get to see a project come to life. Awesome work so far!
I used to drift in real life and mainly do simulators now. I prefer understeer or balanced cars for drifting. So don't worry too much about it, you can force any car to drift and as long as it has no issues, you can drift any relatively well. I'd say it is more important have a decent diff to learn to drift well. I used to do it on an open differential car too but it didn't feel or look that good. In either case it is better to learn on a street car before trying a drift set up car. At least in my opinion. Just so you know, I used -3 to -5 on my front camber on the extreme side and that was more than enough. Some people rolled with -11. Also, make sure your Ackerman looks neutral, when you turn half way or fully, that will mainly influence if you can get a stable counter steer on high angle drifts, on low angle it doesnt matter as much.
Really thorough KPI analysis, awesome work! It could be interesting to investigate variable length/position linkages for the suspension, to allow you to adjust certain KPI's and change the drive style depending on the driving conditions, e.g. less understeer for 'drift' days. I know SuperfastMatt often adds variable mounting locations on subframe features, could look at something similar for your suspension, such as bolt on fixtures or variable length linkages. This series got me into Cyberpunk just recently, and the hoon is now my mainstay. Can't wait to see this project come to life!
I'm really excited to see where you take this channel. Your content thus far is excellent. This is the first new video since I discovered your channel last week and I'm here for it. 2nd year grad mech eng.
recommendation to fix the dead pixel on the camera: in your editing software cut out a pixel just next to the dead pixel and move it over the dead pixel. Don't have to get a new camera just because of one pixel being dead
if you use OBS or something then you could also set it up to do that at record-time, that way you can do it once and forget, instead of doing it every time when editing a video
The resolution on this camera isn't great either, and there are some other features I'm looking for in a camera that would be really nice. Good idea though!
Its a very cool Project. And since in Cyberpunk almost any car is modified in some way, even changes to the scale would still result in a perfect "in universe" car. Looking forward to the progress on this!
Love the video I’m no engineer, but Understeer is supposedly common for drift cars as it means there’s more control and grip to work with. I believe a mechanically stiff front and grippy rear with decent amounts of steering angle would help make the car easier to handle during oversteer. I don’t think that you should sacrifice normal street drivability in order to make the car drift capable. Cars are a balance of needs, no one car is capable of everything!
Hi, this is a very interesting project 💪. I am not sure if i missed it and it has been mentioned in another video, but do you have an estimate/target weight and weight distribution for your car?
Incredible project! I’m looking forward to the long journey ahead, from design to simulation to manufacture and assembly. How long do you expect the project will take? (Also - I find this to be incredibly inspiring, and it makes me want to commit more to some of my long-term projects more seriously!)
Men didn't know suspensions could be so complex... I drive a 29 Ford with 2 solid axels with single traverse mounted leafsprings, and triangle mount towards the center of the car. A lot less factors to think about, and honestly the right isn't that bad both on and offroad...
I would find it cool if someone made a suspension where the axel works double duty as one of the suspension arms, possibly lower rear suspension arm for 5 link front suspension or lower front suspension arm for rear (and as the axel :). Setup like that could be exploited to reduce unsuspended mass and increase ground clearance.
What resources do you use when learning and thinking about these concepts? Do you have textbooks, influencers or websites that help? Race included, of course. What classes did you take to learn this?
Most everything has been from RACE. I've tried textbooks, but they either don't cover this kind of detail or go so into the weeds that they lose big picture. I'm still learning as well, so as I get more knowledge I'll continue to show my findings.
Totally unrelated to the content of the video, but I think you may have some dead or burned, or "hot pixels" in your camera? May want to look in to compensating for that, if your camera manufacturer offers software to fix it, or if there's a built-in menu option.
Hey, do you know Wintergatan / Martin Molin and his Marble Machines? If not, he has some very good videos on how to plan projects (because he himself had troubles with it). Maybe you find interest in it and can adapt something to your project. Especially your project has same needs than his: Mechanic, Usage, Asthetics etc.
I saw that you want to include an electric drivetrain in this car. Have you reconsidered this? Electric drivetrains are surprisingly expensive once you really get in to them. Apart from that, one of the main drivers of how a car feels is how it sounds, and the Quadra 66 has an especially prominent V8. It will probably also be easier to reach 1000 whp with a V8 crate engine than with an electric drivetrain - especially if you're using E85, which is pretty close to lore correct CHOOCH. Soundwise you'll find that maisteer has recently cracked the code - a stepped equal length header should get very close to the sound of the 66. If you're not getting enough power out of that, but are lacking room under the hood for turbos, consider moving them to the rear of the car. People have had quite good success with turbos in the boot. If you combine that with an MGU-H type turbo as Mercedes and Porsche are currently selling or planning to sell ( C63 AMG and 911 GTS respectively), turbolag would be minimal and you can use the piping from turbo to manifold as intercooler. It also seems to allow for air cooled turbos in high horsepower applications, because you're not hitting your turbos with 1500°K exhaust. I'm sure you're aware of Rob Dahm's exploits in replicating a lot of the Hoonicorn's drivetrain, which would be necessary here for the AWD. Finally, I really wouldn't change the ratios of the car. Part of what makes the 66 look the way it does is how flat and wide it is. If you're having trouble with fitting yourself in the car, consider reclining your seat - it works in F1 cars, it should work here too ( and laid back driving is a lot more comfortable than you'd think).
In my most recent video, I said that I am going to make it a hybrid. As for the body, I have to change the dimensions as it is currently illegal to have it be so wide. I think I may have found another way of changing size but still have it look the same for the most part. I'll keep the rest of what you said in mind. Thanks!
@@Project66Hoon I haven't watched that one yet. About the sizes: That's unfortunate, but I still would advise against downsizing just in X and Y while leaving Z original, as the car doesn't have to be big - just flat and wide. Your adjusted model gives off more of an first gen Mustang vibe, less Hoonicorn. From what I saw in your 3D model, your seat is actually higher than it needs to be, so I'd really reconsider this plan. Have you made any specific plans about the hybrid drivetrain yet? I've been toying around with the idea of manufacturing my own diff with two entries, one for ICE and another for electric powertrains, using existing diffinternals and casting a new shell. Benefits would be allowing for EV only mode, drawback would be not being able to draw on the electric drive train during high speeds because of the high rpm. attaching it to the crankshaft makes it impossible to run EV only, attaching it to the gearbox in shaft puts a lot of stress and wear on the clutch. One thing I've found that I really like is turbo compound, where you attach a turbine to the exhaust flow but use the energy there not to drive a turbine that pressures air in to the engine, but attach it to the crankshaft through a torque converter to even out exhaust pulses. basically you get more bang for your buck while keeping compression and therefore efficiency high. One could attach an electric motor to the turbine shaft instead and feed the energy generated to the electric motors - if they are attached behind the gearbox, you can even forego a reverse gear. I don't know how well this would work on an already turbocharged engine though.
@@zibingotaeam3716 I am hoping to get a model of a racing seat with myself sitting in it soon, so I can see how things actually stand. Since your comments are rather in-depth, I highly recommend joining the discord (in the description) so it's easier to talk about this kind of thing.
I have a big question... in order to be able to understand all the math behind this etc and be able to design such things what do you need a mechanical engineering degree or an automotive one? Or do they eventually have many things in common? I'm genuinely curious about that
As for this kind of thing, I would say you don't need a degree, but it helps. I have a mechanical engineering degree, which I think helps, but I can't speak for automotive. I would imagine automotive would help too.
@@Project66Hoon Thanks for the answer it helps a lot.... I'm definetely trying to aim at creating a car brand if possible and I'm trying to weigh my options and learn what would help me the most (obviously I wouldn't do it alone but I'll be the one taking most of the engineering side)
@@c0mpl3x91 In my opinion, the most helpful experience you can get is working on some project involving something automotive. In college you can be part of student groups such as FSAE or solar car that really help you get started on that journey. You are also surrounded by like minded people who also want to learn more.
@@Project66Hoon The issue is I'm not in the states or something like that I'm in EUROPE and not every uni has those projects... which is particularly sad tbh and unfortunately my uni won't have such projects available
@@c0mpl3x91 Ah, that's rough. I would recommend taking on a personal project then, perhaps like a remote control car but try to incorporate a lot of things a full size car has.
Couldn't you keep the exact 3 space scale, scale it appropriately, and just make a more recumbent driving/riding position? F1 car driver's feet are above their hips in their riding position. I hear it's quite comfortable as well.
I am not a race engineer and have not drifted a car yet, all my technical understanding about drifting comes from anime, but from my understanding it might be to have the suspension setup to understeer quite a bit. Sure, it will make it harder to enter a drift, but it will make it a lot easier to control the drift and not just spin out.
Nope, doesnt work as he explained in the video. Understeer lessens control when drifting and makes it hard to enter it (by making the front slide first). The "perfect" suspension (as is already done in the industry) for a consumer/non-racing car is the slightest tendency to understeer. If you want to learn more I recommend searching RUclips for a drift/race suspension setup guide.
You should reconsider your understeer idea unless this is literally just going to be a drag car. A full understeer or oversteer scenario is not exactly ideal at all but having more snappy steering and learning the cars limits will be safer than going quickly then trying to hit a sharp turn and the car just doesn't turn. Its not all about drifting and not drifting you need a balance in handling. But don't take my word for it maybe talk to some track enthusiasts at a local club or even go down to a local yourself with a cheap car and have a go, even better if you get a car with adjustable coil overs and you can try the softer front/rear suspension yourself to see the difference between the two handlings. But it's your car, you make it handle how you want just make sure you're safe and don't push the limits either way in an uncontrolled (off track) environment!
I am aiming for just a bit of understeer, nothing excessive. Plus, I am going to make the suspension adjustable to make it handle better once it is made.
Hopefully you get enough views to start funding the physical build of your car. I like this kind of content, but it’s alittle dry and technical for it to keep me engaged.
I did not expect you to discuss scaling the car down in this video after I commented with that idea. It is very awesome to see you taking suggestions directly from comments - Thank you!
I do read all of the comments. Plus, the car is wider than is legal, so I was going to need to scale it anyway.
@@Project66Hoon I think a lot of information you have in your head (like scaling will happen) is not communicated so youtube commenters are thinking you are insane. 🙂
which kind of is correct anyways, because this project is insane without a full donor chassis. mostly it's best to go from there if you have a timeframe you want to be finished. If the goal is the way and learn a lot, then keep on going 🙂
Love it. You actually design your suspension the long and difficult way. Building basic suspension is simple, but optimizing it introduces a lot of complexity, most people are completely ignorant of.
The noobs care only about power at the crank, but without good suspension, all the engine power in the world is useless.
I am a rally driver and test driver, working on car development in a performance setting is part of my job. Let me know if you want to have a chat as theres a lot of things I could comment on. Respect the continued commitment on the build as this is for sure my favorite car in Cyberpunk!
Oh hell yeah. Absolute win. Reach out to me on discord (in the description) or email me (channel about). I'd love to talk.
you give superfast matt so much, love the videos keep it up!
i'm so glad i'm here from the start to see all of it unfold, good luck
This is really interesting to watch. I have no knowledge in how suspension and the handling of a car is made, but I do love Cyperpunk and it's astetics. So not only do I get to watch education videos, I get to see a project come to life. Awesome work so far!
I used to drift in real life and mainly do simulators now. I prefer understeer or balanced cars for drifting. So don't worry too much about it, you can force any car to drift and as long as it has no issues, you can drift any relatively well. I'd say it is more important have a decent diff to learn to drift well. I used to do it on an open differential car too but it didn't feel or look that good. In either case it is better to learn on a street car before trying a drift set up car. At least in my opinion. Just so you know, I used -3 to -5 on my front camber on the extreme side and that was more than enough. Some people rolled with -11. Also, make sure your Ackerman looks neutral, when you turn half way or fully, that will mainly influence if you can get a stable counter steer on high angle drifts, on low angle it doesnt matter as much.
Got it, thanks for the info!
MORE KINEMATICS!! MORE OPTIMIZATION! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY!!!
I love this, One day you'll be able to look back at this inside of your fully self made car
Really thorough KPI analysis, awesome work! It could be interesting to investigate variable length/position linkages for the suspension, to allow you to adjust certain KPI's and change the drive style depending on the driving conditions, e.g. less understeer for 'drift' days. I know SuperfastMatt often adds variable mounting locations on subframe features, could look at something similar for your suspension, such as bolt on fixtures or variable length linkages.
This series got me into Cyberpunk just recently, and the hoon is now my mainstay. Can't wait to see this project come to life!
Thanks! I am planning for an adjustable suspension, but I still have to figure out how exactly to do that.
getting happier with each video ...as you are progressing towards your goal (from now i should say Our Goal).
Please keep it up.
Awesome video. Really in depth and educational. Wish all the best in this project!
I'm really excited to see where you take this channel. Your content thus far is excellent. This is the first new video since I discovered your channel last week and I'm here for it.
2nd year grad mech eng.
Commenting before I watch the video, as I just wanted to say, Wow! I just watched your previous video last night! Talk about perfect timing
I love your content.
There is a white dot in the video in the middle of the screen, I didn't know if anyone noticed or commented that there was one.
Thanks! I'm aware. Once I get some more money, I'm going to buy a better camera that doesn't have that problem.
recommendation to fix the dead pixel on the camera: in your editing software cut out a pixel just next to the dead pixel and move it over the dead pixel. Don't have to get a new camera just because of one pixel being dead
if you use OBS or something then you could also set it up to do that at record-time, that way you can do it once and forget, instead of doing it every time when editing a video
The resolution on this camera isn't great either, and there are some other features I'm looking for in a camera that would be really nice. Good idea though!
Awesome work!! Keep going !! 😊
Its a very cool Project. And since in Cyberpunk almost any car is modified in some way, even changes to the scale would still result in a perfect "in universe" car.
Looking forward to the progress on this!
Thanks for all those useful infos! Love the series so far!
HELL YEAH MORE KINEMATICS VIDEO
Love the video
I’m no engineer, but
Understeer is supposedly common for drift cars as it means there’s more control and grip to work with. I believe a mechanically stiff front and grippy rear with decent amounts of steering angle would help make the car easier to handle during oversteer.
I don’t think that you should sacrifice normal street drivability in order to make the car drift capable. Cars are a balance of needs, no one car is capable of everything!
favourite channel rn
Have you looked into the citroens hydro spheres? They allow for stiffness adjustments on the go and "active suspension possibilities"
YES YES YES IM SO EXCITED FOR THIS BUILDDDD
Could you in your future videos process the audio with de-esser?
this is really cool stuff!
Hi, this is a very interesting project 💪. I am not sure if i missed it and it has been mentioned in another video, but do you have an estimate/target weight and weight distribution for your car?
I am thinking it will be around the weight of a tesla model S, but it's difficult to say when it's so early in development.
Incredible project! I’m looking forward to the long journey ahead, from design to simulation to manufacture and assembly. How long do you expect the project will take?
(Also - I find this to be incredibly inspiring, and it makes me want to commit more to some of my long-term projects more seriously!)
Thank you! I imagine at least 5 years
very cool
Men didn't know suspensions could be so complex... I drive a 29 Ford with 2 solid axels with single traverse mounted leafsprings, and triangle mount towards the center of the car. A lot less factors to think about, and honestly the right isn't that bad both on and offroad...
I would find it cool if someone made a suspension where the axel works double duty as one of the suspension arms, possibly lower rear suspension arm for 5 link front suspension or lower front suspension arm for rear (and as the axel :). Setup like that could be exploited to reduce unsuspended mass and increase ground clearance.
What resources do you use when learning and thinking about these concepts? Do you have textbooks, influencers or websites that help? Race included, of course. What classes did you take to learn this?
Most everything has been from RACE. I've tried textbooks, but they either don't cover this kind of detail or go so into the weeds that they lose big picture. I'm still learning as well, so as I get more knowledge I'll continue to show my findings.
Totally unrelated to the content of the video, but I think you may have some dead or burned, or "hot pixels" in your camera? May want to look in to compensating for that, if your camera manufacturer offers software to fix it, or if there's a built-in menu option.
Hey, do you know Wintergatan / Martin Molin and his Marble Machines? If not, he has some very good videos on how to plan projects (because he himself had troubles with it). Maybe you find interest in it and can adapt something to your project. Especially your project has same needs than his: Mechanic, Usage, Asthetics etc.
How long after buying the course do you have access to the software?
I believe it is 10 years
I saw that you want to include an electric drivetrain in this car. Have you reconsidered this?
Electric drivetrains are surprisingly expensive once you really get in to them.
Apart from that, one of the main drivers of how a car feels is how it sounds, and the Quadra 66 has an especially prominent V8.
It will probably also be easier to reach 1000 whp with a V8 crate engine than with an electric drivetrain - especially if you're using E85, which is pretty close to lore correct CHOOCH.
Soundwise you'll find that maisteer has recently cracked the code - a stepped equal length header should get very close to the sound of the 66.
If you're not getting enough power out of that, but are lacking room under the hood for turbos, consider moving them to the rear of the car. People have had quite good success with turbos in the boot. If you combine that with an MGU-H type turbo as Mercedes and Porsche are currently selling or planning to sell ( C63 AMG and 911 GTS respectively), turbolag would be minimal and you can use the piping from turbo to manifold as intercooler. It also seems to allow for air cooled turbos in high horsepower applications, because you're not hitting your turbos with 1500°K exhaust.
I'm sure you're aware of Rob Dahm's exploits in replicating a lot of the Hoonicorn's drivetrain, which would be necessary here for the AWD.
Finally, I really wouldn't change the ratios of the car. Part of what makes the 66 look the way it does is how flat and wide it is. If you're having trouble with fitting yourself in the car, consider reclining your seat - it works in F1 cars, it should work here too ( and laid back driving is a lot more comfortable than you'd think).
In my most recent video, I said that I am going to make it a hybrid. As for the body, I have to change the dimensions as it is currently illegal to have it be so wide. I think I may have found another way of changing size but still have it look the same for the most part. I'll keep the rest of what you said in mind. Thanks!
@@Project66Hoon I haven't watched that one yet.
About the sizes: That's unfortunate, but I still would advise against downsizing just in X and Y while leaving Z original, as the car doesn't have to be big - just flat and wide. Your adjusted model gives off more of an first gen Mustang vibe, less Hoonicorn. From what I saw in your 3D model, your seat is actually higher than it needs to be, so I'd really reconsider this plan.
Have you made any specific plans about the hybrid drivetrain yet? I've been toying around with the idea of manufacturing my own diff with two entries, one for ICE and another for electric powertrains, using existing diffinternals and casting a new shell. Benefits would be allowing for EV only mode, drawback would be not being able to draw on the electric drive train during high speeds because of the high rpm. attaching it to the crankshaft makes it impossible to run EV only, attaching it to the gearbox in shaft puts a lot of stress and wear on the clutch.
One thing I've found that I really like is turbo compound, where you attach a turbine to the exhaust flow but use the energy there not to drive a turbine that pressures air in to the engine, but attach it to the crankshaft through a torque converter to even out exhaust pulses. basically you get more bang for your buck while keeping compression and therefore efficiency high. One could attach an electric motor to the turbine shaft instead and feed the energy generated to the electric motors - if they are attached behind the gearbox, you can even forego a reverse gear.
I don't know how well this would work on an already turbocharged engine though.
@@zibingotaeam3716 I am hoping to get a model of a racing seat with myself sitting in it soon, so I can see how things actually stand. Since your comments are rather in-depth, I highly recommend joining the discord (in the description) so it's easier to talk about this kind of thing.
I have a big question... in order to be able to understand all the math behind this etc and be able to design such things what do you need a mechanical engineering degree or an automotive one? Or do they eventually have many things in common? I'm genuinely curious about that
As for this kind of thing, I would say you don't need a degree, but it helps. I have a mechanical engineering degree, which I think helps, but I can't speak for automotive. I would imagine automotive would help too.
@@Project66Hoon Thanks for the answer it helps a lot.... I'm definetely trying to aim at creating a car brand if possible and I'm trying to weigh my options and learn what would help me the most (obviously I wouldn't do it alone but I'll be the one taking most of the engineering side)
@@c0mpl3x91 In my opinion, the most helpful experience you can get is working on some project involving something automotive. In college you can be part of student groups such as FSAE or solar car that really help you get started on that journey. You are also surrounded by like minded people who also want to learn more.
@@Project66Hoon The issue is I'm not in the states or something like that I'm in EUROPE and not every uni has those projects... which is particularly sad tbh and unfortunately my uni won't have such projects available
@@c0mpl3x91 Ah, that's rough. I would recommend taking on a personal project then, perhaps like a remote control car but try to incorporate a lot of things a full size car has.
The dot that's normally on your face because of something wrong with the camera (I'm assuming) is really bothering me lol
Oh I just noticed the red dot on your hair now, but it looks like it's more from a laser pointer. Watch out for snipers
Oh dot on the shirt too... this is gonna kill me
Did your camera get hit by a laser?
Couldn't you keep the exact 3 space scale, scale it appropriately, and just make a more recumbent driving/riding position? F1 car driver's feet are above their hips in their riding position. I hear it's quite comfortable as well.
Don't give up! ^-^
Mod link?
Nice
Theres a small dot on your video, other than that great video!
I'm aware. It's due to the cheap camera I have. I plan to upgrade in the near future.
I am not a race engineer and have not drifted a car yet, all my technical understanding about drifting comes from anime, but from my understanding it might be to have the suspension setup to understeer quite a bit. Sure, it will make it harder to enter a drift, but it will make it a lot easier to control the drift and not just spin out.
Nope, doesnt work as he explained in the video. Understeer lessens control when drifting and makes it hard to enter it (by making the front slide first). The "perfect" suspension (as is already done in the industry) for a consumer/non-racing car is the slightest tendency to understeer. If you want to learn more I recommend searching RUclips for a drift/race suspension setup guide.
You should reconsider your understeer idea unless this is literally just going to be a drag car. A full understeer or oversteer scenario is not exactly ideal at all but having more snappy steering and learning the cars limits will be safer than going quickly then trying to hit a sharp turn and the car just doesn't turn. Its not all about drifting and not drifting you need a balance in handling.
But don't take my word for it maybe talk to some track enthusiasts at a local club or even go down to a local yourself with a cheap car and have a go, even better if you get a car with adjustable coil overs and you can try the softer front/rear suspension yourself to see the difference between the two handlings.
But it's your car, you make it handle how you want just make sure you're safe and don't push the limits either way in an uncontrolled (off track) environment!
I am aiming for just a bit of understeer, nothing excessive. Plus, I am going to make the suspension adjustable to make it handle better once it is made.
@@Project66Hoon hell yeah, I'd be keen to see you take it to a track day nonetheless
@@Jlewismedia Whatever happens, it's sure to be eventful
Hopefully you get enough views to start funding the physical build of your car. I like this kind of content, but it’s alittle dry and technical for it to keep me engaged.
Ah yes.. i would do this.... if i had money...
Quit your job and do this full time.
I wish