lol, Intel Arrow Lake is not making them look any better Quick little correction: at 27:25 the undervolt testing I did was on the "Gigabyte Optimized" Profile as it was on the F6 Bios. Both sides are the same, I just labeled it wrong- my b Hope you enjoy this and it can help set the stage for Intel. This has been a monstrous project :)
If you're sitting on a 13900k, looking to upgrade Intel, where do you go? 14900k is maybe 3% faster? 285k (aka 15900k) req the purchase of a new single-use mb, is, at best another 2 or 3%. Surely, they aren't expecting AMD owners on AM4/AM5, to bypass or move off 5800x3d/7800x3d to purchase a lackluster cpu with no platform future. Who is their customer? Why would they pay more for less, with no 'olive branch' extension or commitment from Intel?
Im pretty sure AM4 is the main reason so many people are on AMD platforms. Its amazing how long this platform is lastinng and still provides great perfomance.
its amazing how AM4 somehow still beats even AM5 CPUs. No one really wants to buy ANOTHER motherboard with their CPU. "Future proofing" by buying the highest end everything is actually the worst thing you can do because it leaves no room to move
I absolutely despise the 3000 series from AMD 3700X was a scam AMD was literally giving us a 2015 powered CPU in 2019 I built a rig in 2020 and was already bottlenecked am I was really behind however they seem to make it up with the 5000 series but let's be real here what's the point of upgrading through the same platform if they're just going to give us garbage performance for its time heck we're already seeing that right now with am 5 9000 series Dead on arrival and the x3d variants are garbage as well by the look of the leaks 8% better my butt
🙂 agree, i dont need another computer right now but if i needed one i like the Ryzen 7 lineup and the nicer AM4 ATX Boards, right now the Ryzen 7's for AM4 are alot cheaper than i7s, it wasnt like that a few years ago. I like anything that has 8 cores and 16 threads.
The direction with Intel's Core Ultra is a good example of this. Intel was almost about to axe Battlemage as well. Because Intel's CEO says that nobody needs a discrete graphics card.
The real problem is that CEOs are basically useless morons coming out of stupid Ivy leagues without any real world knowledge of how anything works. It's like a caste or class systems where they basically have their job given in a plate, its pure nepotism. There's no merit, they produce no value for shareholders , yet they have the required creds to get the job, meanwhile no engineer from the trenches are even going to be promoted to the manager class. Remember when Intel was founded and run by an engineer ? Yeah, that can't happen anymore. It's all because of Wallstreet and their stupid fake numbers. I wonder why companies even pay their high salaries, except for marketing reasons , like a pedigree dog , just for show. You could literally replace 99% of the CEOs with AI and no one asked would notice, except the companies might run better without the drag of the managerial class, and actually produce value for customers and shareholders.
Seeing the 13700k use 145 Watts, just to compete head-to-head with the 7800x3D that's using 65 Watts, is really unsettling. Performance be damned, but the Ryzen CPU is just so much more efficient, it's not even funny anymore. In Frames/Watt the Ryzen system really has no competition with the Intel one.
@@thehavok4258 my brain just hurt from reading this. Why then don't you get older top of the line hardware like a 2080ti or even two of them instead of the new RTX4060? Probably because the GPU from this year with the performance of a 2080ti uses 2/3 the power, but that's none of your concern. Operating cost isn't worthy of being considered anyway. Or thought bigger, why don't you get yourself a clothes dryer with traditional resistance heating, it's so cheap! And it will only use 5x the power of one with a heat pump, but that costs 2x as much to buy. Who the hell cares about operating cost anyway, that's for nerds. Have I made my point clear?
@@maxdergroe9082 I'm sorry simple things make your head hurt. So, there's a thing called a used market. You know, where people buy used older things and it's in some cases a bigger to significantly bigger market than buying new. Like cars for example. Most people buy cheaper less efferent used cars over new. Same goes for pc hardware which is thriving at all times. Ever hear of ebay? Probably not judging by your comment, but it's real. 132 million people use it every year. You can't run sli or crossfire anymore and people absolutely did buy second gpu's over buying a new one all the time. Even when those setups hardly worked right at the best of times and flat out didn't work at their worst. Why do you think it's not available anymore, it's not because people didn't use it. It's because it was a pain to implement and the game devs have to support it and didn't at times and it was buggy. No one cares about power draw. If they did, no one would be buying 500 watt gpu's and the market never would have moved passed 250 watt gpu's. Btw, clearly you don't know this, but 4090's can draw 500 watts and people shunt mod them to draw 600. Because no one cares. Get over it.
That is the thing though. Is not horrible to go Intel if you are building something cheap but if you want to go big money then you are better with AMD because those i9 suck and need as much power as a nuclear submarine. But if you find a cheap i5 or an older generation cheap i7 is not that horrible for a lower budget built. But generally i think i5 is the best for an Intel system because that CPU will probably be good enough with air-cooling while you might need more for an i7 and if you start buying watercoolers you are ruining the cheap built.
I picked up a z690 DDR5 board and 12700F on release with the plan of updating to the latest CPU the board supported in a couple years time. I'm glad I got 12th gen but now I can't upgrade. Last time I ever buy intel
*YEAH*, exactly! The *vision* is the most important - and keeping the promises of 5-year support of the platform! Amazing! I *LOVE* AMD because of this vision. ............ But don't get me wrong, it was NOT without problems. There are *ALWAYS* some problems with a *completely* NEW HW / NEW CPU_architecture........ And what AMD did and released in April of 2017 was a pretty *brave* LEAP OF FAITH !! They *created* a completely NEW architecture from scratch and at the same time they *SHRINKED* their manufacturing_process from their previous_experience 32nm and 40nm SOI ...... to 14nm ! No one has EVER done this before, NEVER! So I am really impressed it went SO WELL ----- I mean: with ONLY RAM_controller INSTABILITY! In the beginning (Ryzen 1800X, HW revision 00) - it was a VERY *painful* experience gaming on it !!! ... I mean - even with the most compatible RAM (G.Skill 3600) running at the BASE frequency of DDR4-2400, it was still UNSTABLE = randomly FREEZING ... a lot - but ONLY when fully loaded... there were only a handful of games capable of FULLY loading this 8-core BEAST..... : CRYSIS III, Metro Exodus and HL: ALYX . These were crashing the most of all - on Ryzen 1800X !!! ... but the newer CPUs - they ALL already have a 100% stable RAM controller. So, no more problems after upgrading the CPU to 5800X and later to 5800X3D ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Reminder that the poll doesn't show that more people have AMD, its that more AMD people respond to these kinds of polls because AMD buyers zealously watch youtube tech channels more than intel buyers.
Intel is using a 10nm process (called Intel 7 process node) while AMD is using a 5nm process , that directly contributes to the differences in power usage. That is because Intel fabs its own chips, while AMD contracts TSMC to manufacture them, and TSMC is so far ahead of Intel in chip fab technology. On the flip side it is why when a new Intel chip is released you can buy it in volume from day 1, but when a new AMD chip is released it takes a while to get any stock because AMD is negotiating with TSMC, as TSMC is also making chips for Apple and host of other companies.
And Intel is only behind because of how insanely aggressive they were being when trying to get to 10nm and below. Their original 10nm would have been as dense or slightly denser than TSMCs 5nm. Due to that it made it harder to hit those and have a viable and profitable process. Intel is about to move to their 18A and if it goes well should be ahead of TSMC. If you look at most process designs at the same nm, Intel is usually denser than TSMC or Samsung.
@domainmojo2162 That's not what they did. AMD spun their FABs off into what is called GlobalFoundries. Originally AMD was going to use GF but they fell behind in process tech so they switched to TSMC. And it isn't the best option always. They have no control over the process technology and have to fight with Apple and nVidia for FAB space which can leave them with less stock to sell.
@@dregothic It's just Negotiation. Not a big issue - as long as you have competent negotiators. There are delays... but with planning- which AMD seems to manage, it really isn't that big a deal. Every decision has it's downsides- you just need to manage it and b prepared to meet those challenges. That's all it costs.. and that is an everyday thing between businesses and a skill that many people can master. I would've liked for AMD to keep hold of their fabs, but yeah- when the going gets tough... Still... they will have options in future and all this allows them to better concentrate on what they're good at. Best decision for us all. Imagine if that never happened.. We wouldn't have these same failing issues, but we woulda been stuck buying CPUs right now, at premium, with massive power profiles... and Intel would've just gone- "Bend down a little more! Grab your ankles... and spread 'em!" .. while they're pumping away! (without applying any Vaseline or KY) I'm sure low-end, budget CPUs would've been, like 200 MSRP, with massive power profiles in excess of 200W, and we wouldn't have been able to do a d_mn3d thing.
I’ve had this 13700k for about a year now. No issues, I love it. I live in Michigan and it’s cold half year round so I got no issue with the heat either lol.
I agree. And if one wants a less power hungry verson/less heat, there are always 13700 and 13700T versions, running at 65 and 35 Watts. They do pretty well all things considering.
This video is clickbyte. Here is data: i7-13700K TDP typical 125W while Ryzen 7 9800X3D (similar to Intel but about 5% less performance) typical TDP: 120W so TDP are almost the same.
Or, alternatively, CEP was just trigger happy just for sake of it and you could undervolt further with it disabled. So yeah, give it a shot. Intel runs these CPUs at voltages they needed at launch, not now, when they got way more experience in producing these. Their node also still matures and gets better as the time passes. So Intel CPUs generally undervolt like crazy, just like Zen 4 CPUs do now vs. launch
@@AngryChineseWoman Depends. You should not loose performance by just undervolting alone but when CEP is triggered or logic just isn't stable enough, it will start to stretch the clocks. It will seem that CPU holds frequency just fine but the actual performance will be lowered. If it's CEP triggering, you may disable it and try to UV further. BUT! IIRC turning CEP off also prevents or limits clock stretching so while you may achieve even better results, there is also risk of instability as CPU will crash instead of just stretching the clocks in heavy load scenario you may have not tested for
@@danieljackheck Yes, but the binning stays on the really safe side. You usually can UV by 50 mV. If you use good MB, set VRM correctly, -70-100 mV often is doable. Personally I was able to UV one 12700K by 110 mV and I've seen people doing even more without loosing performance, which is crazy. By sacrificing couple hundred MHz, peaking at around 1.15-1.2V under load is nothing unusual on Alder and Raptor Lake.
I guess the older ones are okay. I got a i7 7700 and have had zero issues with it for the 4 years I have had it. I got it used along with my Used memory, used GTX 1080, Used motherboard, Used NvmeM.2 and my used ssd. All used and still running fine.
I had to delid my 7700k within a week of installing it because the thermal compound was horrible.. but once I added some liquid metal under the heat spreader it was a beast. Overclocked really easy and stayed cool. I now have a 13700k lol Works fine for me
@@itsTyrion Intel also used to be incredibly successful, but if nvidia does the same thing where they hold top status for a few years and stop trying to innovate because they believe amd will not catch up, AMD or someone else will do the same thing to them as AMD did to intel
Green don't care as long as they are on top. Performance increases lead to price increases. They wrote the book on market manipulation and price gouging.
It’ll never happen as long as the nonsensical “green” vs “red” bullshite continues that creates diehard fanboys of either side to run defense for companies on why they do X/Y/Z in subtle ways to completely justify it … I mean, seriously. People have somehow been able to rationalize that it’s totally fine and perfectly normal to have a GPU be sold for over $2k on the market due to hype built up around it by giving the justification of “but good performance tho”, especially when *SOLD OUT* appears for them at retailers that makes people buy into the hype even more that they gotta’ have it. Can’t wait to see how ridiculous things will be in another 5 years and how people will still continue to pull out the “but they’re advancing with tech, so they gotta’ charge that much” nonsense. It’ll be a never-ending trajectory upwards with pricing with that type of logic, making it so they never ever have to come back down to reasonable prices ever again because “but that tech tho” - “budget build” then will be waiting 5-7 years for a card to be under $350 at the rate we’re going now… and even then, that’s using the word _budget_ very loosely …
I don't know man. It's not that the engineers on the Intel production floor were screaming that there would be quality control issues and management told them to kick rocks. It's not the power efficiency. It's not the reliability. The big problem for me was that Intel gaslit OEM partners and lied to customers for TWO YEARS deflecting blame for a problem that they 100% knew about ahead of time. I won't touch their lazy designs until executive management gets purged. Throwing 50% of your net worth into the trash and setting yourself back 40 years isn't a great way to turn the company around. Why would I reward their stupidity by sending them my cash when I can buy objectively better stuff for less? 12th gen was great but look at the longevity of AM4. 13 looked lazy before we knew about the reliability and performance issues. 14 was a waste of sand. With Ultra they actually managed to look worse. Intel is now the 50% off bargain bin option. Brutal.
Unfortunately they are too big to fail and government is going to bail them out with our tax money so we can compete with China, instead of just firing their failures of executives to save money especially considering they just made massive layoffs to regular workers and if it is really that important to American success maybe it should, idk, be run by people who are looking out for American's best interests rather than personal financial gain. But that's socialism! Of course bailing them out with taxes, that's not socialism, that's just good foreign policy. Ridiculous. If they are going to get bailed out by American taxpayers, the American taxpayers should own it. Same with all those banks that robbed the American people twice. Unfortunately, we have an entire political party controlling at least half the elected positions who are completely opposed to the government doing anything but putting money in their allies pockets while taking it out of the pockets of the American taxpayers. But they say they want small government, except when it comes to using taxpayer money to fix the broken free market. In that case, the free market and capitalism is wrong and needs to be propped up by government, but the government and American people shouldn't control the businesses it is financially supporting with taxpayer funds. Anyone who isn't brainwashed can see how this is completely hypocritical and doesn't make sense, and if something is critical to the public good and success of America as a whole it should be heavily regulated and controlled, especially if American taxpayers are going to be forced to financially invest in it with literally no expectation of receiving anything in return but a passable alternative to foreign produced chips, or having predatory banks and lending that is literally designed to suck as much money from you AND the American government to enrich just a few selfish oxygen thieves. Plus they can feed that money they stole into propaganda and lobbying politicians, and in getting their Republican votes to be worth more through the electoral college and gerrymandering and lax bribery and lobbying and financial investment laws. It's just so ridiculous. Advanced Micro Devices should rebrand to American Made Design or Devices and take over Intel's chip making with government investment if they really believe in the "free market" and care that much to use taxpayer money to prop up an American chip maker. Intel has already went the same route as Boeing, which has left us in the space faring hands solely of a crazy billionaire supervillain basically. Man, America has really gone downhill since the whole "Declaration of Independence," thing.
Sad to see my personal issues with Intel in 2001 are still ongoing for folks today, I don't usually keep track of this anymore because I haven't been in a situation it mattered for years, but they were profoundly bad in dealing with resellers back then while AMD Australia were incredible comms wise in addressing what was happening and not beating about the bush.
Engineers screaming that there would be quality control issues and the management telling them to kick rocks was the main reason for the downfall of two iconic American companies from different industries but with pretty much the same problems now: *Intel* and *Boeing.* The similarities are striking, the comparison unavoidable.
@@goytabr no one knew there'd be any issues with idling wafers. It's likely it's not fully understood. So it's nothing anyone has any right to scream about. The history of our rise is a comedy of errors. That's how it works. We make mistakes and then learn from them. Success is falling down seven times and getting up eight.
I was sold on AMD when their first generation Ryzen came out. The price to performance was unmatched, and I didn't give a shit about having the fastest possible chip. I just didn't understand why people kept going intel with their ridiculous prices.
Imo the real dealbreaker has always been the socket changes all the time, while amd continues to support AM4 for way longer. And of course, the 13/14th gen fiasco is the nail in the coffin for me. Never will I buy my cpu, which is supposed to be reliant on longevity and reliability, from a corp like intel that can’t even be transparent about their own manufacturing defects.
AMD's insane power efficiency makes me not care that my 7800X3D is moderatley slower than a Intel Core i9 14900K when it does the same workload fully competently at consistently 85% less power draw then Intel. Also I have a dead Intel Core i9 14900K in a befitting trash bag, undervolting and underclocking did absolutely nothing to stop its oxidation and degregation. The 6 GHZ marketing campaign, FAILED to inform its consumers of the need for NVIDIA RTX 5090 priced (no joke) EKG Quantum DELTA TEC 2 Custom Loop Water Cooling to remotely have a chance at stability at those 6 GHZ or higher clock speeds. 9800X3D and 7800X3D run cool and efficient with a simple air cooler. Apply a EKG Quantum DELTA TEC 2 Custom Loop Water Cooling, proper delid and direct to die the 9800X3D or 7800X3D and AMD is with or without this tweaking in another league in gaming. BTW a 14900KS with 8000 MHZ RAM and more than 6 GHZ all core still gets smoked by the 9800X3D in most games, without several months of tuning and again, an RTX 5090 priced premium cooling solution plus months of tweaking in the BIOS. I love BIOS tweaking, but even for people like this, AMD is the better current choice. I hope Intel's next CEO can turn the company around. BattleMage is exciting.
Back then I rather bought i5 8600K as 1st and 2nd gen Ryzens were not that good in single thread performance. This was addressed in 3rd gen Ryzen and now AMD's performance is mostly even better while remaining power efficient. So yeah, my next CPU will be AMD.
I've had two 13900Ks die on me, I think the first was the oxidation issue due to the timing but second was definitely due to degradation as the memory controller was failing as well. I downgraded to a 12900KS because it was cheap; 12th gen didn't appear to have the same issues and didn't have to change the board.
been running a 14700k with cpu frame, 7400 DDR5 for a whole year with zero issues and everyone i know on 13700k or 13900k has no problems either. You're just terribly unlucky
Initially I thought you were ragging on the i7 but I'm glad you emphasized its use for video work. Being a video editor myself I've built a monster rig with 80TBs of HDD storage, 128GB DDR4, 3080 ti and the 13700K in the midst of all that has pumped out hour long TED talk style videos (With motion graphics mind you) SEAMLESSLY for the past 18 months!
I am glad someone finally talked about the wattage. I have to pay that power bill each month. 200-300 watts is crazy. This would have been considered experimental a few years ago. Keep up the good work.
@@Mr.Genesis7800X3D only costs that much because AMD stopped making new ones in prep for 9800X3D, and the ones that were left in stock are currently getting scalped to hell and back. The irony is that it wouldn't cost nearly as much if Intel actually had a decent alternative to offer.
Hey Vex I used to hate your video being click baity with stupid thumbnails and kind of low effort bc most of the time you were iust reacting to tech news and others benchmarks. But this video quality and testing is actually really good. And the coverage is all round. Good job dude👍
Intel has been having these problems for years. I bought a new Intel CPU about 4 years ago and had it cooking in my tower, send it back to Intel, and they sent me a replacement. The replacement was still overheating, but it wasn't a game-ender and I couldn't afford to shut my PC down again for a month and a half for a second replacement. The most annoying part about it was Intel not taking my word for it that it was overheating out the arse. They required me to hit up a service shop, then when said shop referred that it was overheating they screwed them around til they filed paperwork *just right,* which drove the owner of the small repair shop bonkers and almost made them refund me just to not have to deal with it. The only reason the owner stuck it out and fought/advocated for me was because, in their words, "It's not right. 20% of Intel CPUs are overheating like this. They need to be held accountable." I don't want to try to pin the cause on one thing, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the entire production went tits up when they went in hard with their DEI initiatives. The start of the cooking CPUs was just after they started pushing out their talent and started racist practices.
Dude DEI has nothing to do with it. There was an issue with some of the coding where it wouldn’t apply the right voltage. That’s not even counting the fact that CPU chips are getting more powerful and when you cram a lot of transistors in a small area, things get very hot, very fast. CPUs are sensitive and anything wrong with how it communicates, how much voltage it gets, etc, can make it malfunction. AMDs new release of CPUs had issues in late 2024. We are close reaching the physical limits of what silicon can do, which is why we’re seeing less and less gains year after year of what silicon based chips can do.
@@lesterchua2677 you're wrong. But even if that was the case, AMD is an American company. Not that DEI has anything to do with the hardships Intel is facing. As @m3gami_ has already stated.
@@lesterchua2677 you're wrong. But even if that was the case, AMD is an American company. As @m3gami_ stated there's physical problems that attribute to Intel's woes as well as trying to be a competitive fabricator and CPU and GPU design house. Their capital is spread more thin in R&D than AMD who is fabless. Bringing up DEI in this case (and in most cases) is a lazy argument.
1:33 props to the employee at microcenter being honest to the consumer. Instead of just letting another uninformed customer clearing their dead inventory. This means that Microcenter staff really treat their customers right and prioritise educating their customer to make the best value choice for their PCs.
How is being and AMD shill "being honest"? You can clearly see in this video that the intel does well in games and does much better in other aplications.
@@metallboy25AMD shill? So all these years, what was it with intel? Also, everyone knows x3d chips are not meant to be good at productivity, they are worse than their non x3d amd chips due to their lower clockspeed.
@@metallboy25 If anyone's a shill, it's you. There's a reason why Intel has been in the news a lot this year, and it wasn't for creating the best CPUs. Intel is power inefficient, their 13th and 14th generation CPUs were unreliable, they produce so much heat, and when they tried to fix it with their new generation, they saw regression in games. Oh, and X3D CPUs aren't for productivity work, something like the 9950X or 7950X are more catered to productivity, where they use less power than Intel for comparable or greater performance. Believe me, I would love for Intel to be trading blows with AMD, same with AMD and Intel trading blows with Nvidia in the GPU market. Competition creates innovation, but Intel still rides on the coattails of it's previous dominance over AMD.
The shop I was working at decided to stop selling pre-assembled machines with AMD. They then had to deal with LOTS of bad intel CPU, returns and unhappy customers. They're now closed.
The number one reason is not the performance in isolation, but the performance per watt. I'm already undervolting and underclocking both my CPU and GPU to survive summers without needing to use my aircon. 100% Agree with everything else but note that overall efficiency is very important for some of us. Appreciate the work you did on this, very well put together and your points came across as very fair, you also addressed just about every strength and weakness of both AMD and Intel CPUs in general, was a joy to listen/watch. With this video you are hitting far beyond your subscriber/view count in quality and just simple constructive reasoning with some great evidence to back up your claims :-) Also loved the unbiased nature of this video and would love to see more of it since fanboying over one company is just about always a bad thing and kills innovation within this space etc.
Yes. This. People that recommend me to prefer Intel must be living near the Arctic. They must be having no idea what it feels like living in a hot and humid tropical area without air conditioning. 150W heater is good enough to make a small bedroom like a sauna, let alone having a 600W PC...
@@AJsWorld (XD) interesting that you went with ntendo switch. I had a 5900hx/3070 Asus G17 laptop that I absolutely adored to bits, though for my needs, one who isn't mobile regarding gaming needs desktop simply made more sense eventually, but I still miss the efficiency I got from it where I would disable my 3070 in older games like SWTOR and might & magic which I was playing at the time and simply play with the onboard vega gpu basically gamming at 50-70watts in total. Anyway in the end overall experience on desktop is simply superior since I'm not dealing with optimus, low vram and some annoying cpu bottlenecking experience anymore.
You AMD fanboys talk about electricity like it was liquid gold, a few watts here a few watts there most of the appliances in your house need many hundreds if not thousands of watts 🤣
I live in a very hot climate and have an i5-13600k and 7900xt cooling cost me 3 cheap pwm fans and a 100$ AIO (this is plus taxes and vat). I torture it for an hour on cinebench the hottest core doesn't cross 84C. I think you chucklenuts just don't know know how power works.
I have an i7-13700. Has the firmware patch. Never had any issues with it. I also replaced the socket with an aftermarket bracket so it doesn't bend. No reason for me to buy AMD for me. But most likely this will likely be my last Intel CPU. Next build will be AMD.
You can't say temp. is 14% lower. If temp was +2'C and now it is +1'C, it does not mean it is 2 times or 50% colder. This is common scientific, logical error. And it depends if you use 'C or F - then you would get even lower % differences.
@@Raderade1-pt3om Basically, temps are a made up scale of numbers, unlike regular numbers where 2 is the double of 1. 0'C is not the point in which there is no heat, it's just the point at which water freezes at sea level air pressure, more of a reference point than a zero. Consider 0'C an unknown value instead of 0, like "x", since it is a temperature where heat is still present. In that case, 1'C is x+1'C and 2'C is x+2'C, and you can't assume one of them is the double of another. Measuring temperature by Kelvin is more accurate in that regard, since its 0 point (0 K) actually is the point in which there is 0 heat, also known as Absolute Zero. That's why you see the other comments joking around saying "Lord Kelvin".
12th gen was really good in my opinion. Got a 12600k for 285$ 3 months after launch, paired it on a cheap Z ddr4 mobo and off to the races. I limited the tdp to 125W and it turned into a really efficient CPU for multithread workloads. Adding UV got me down to 95W, with a total 7% loss in performance but -45% reduction in power draw (-110mV, got lucky there!). Really good gen, but was already pushed a bit too high, then Intel shot themselves in the foot with 13th and 14th gen
yup, i have a dozen 12th gen sku for me and the family, they work fine, they are on discount at Microcenter, you can get an i7K sometimes for less than 200
I personally helped building 2 PCs this year. One with a 12100 and another with a 12400. They both were very good for how little they cost and been running without issues until this day. Ryzen 7000 is good but the mobo cost is atrocious, so it's quite a lot harder to build on a tight budget, at least for now.
I got an i7 14700K with an AsRock Riptide motherboard absolutely zero issues. Paired it with an RTX 4070 Ti and it's been a great experience no issues. I used to have an i9 14900KS paired with a low tier msi motherboard but the problem was that I didn't know any better at the time and very poor financial decisions were made. Crashing was my PC's second nature back then. Glad the changes were exactly what I needed.
@ The 7950x3D is/was pretty good, but you'd be better off getting a 9800X3D if you just game, it outperforms pretty much everything else on the market right now. I have use for 16 cores, so its worth it. For gaming,, 7800x3D/9800x3D.
@ReallySadProfessor I'm thinking about a 9950x3D build but intel supposedly cut the price of xeons and my needs are for video rendering not gaming so I am considering a xeon workstation but I haven't yet seen the price drop only news. I'm even considering a new amd build and a project to create a 56 core 2nd gen xeon instead. I'm bumping footage up to prores 4444 and avid DNxHR 4444 uncompressed for DaVinci. The 10G ethernet will give me at least thunderbolt but I would rather rather get a higher core count and 32 core threadripper might cost more than new xeon prices. I even considered getting a used 2066 just like yours but 48 to 56 cores will be excellent for rendering while I can still work. I would need a second machine dedicated to rendering a day's shoot. I expect the 9950x3D to also give me great performance on war thunder but plat 1 game a day. I can get away with an old build with two 8gb gpus for gaming so it's not my priority. My budget is 3200 before monitors. So I was going to get the AMD first and make my project over time looking for deals. I can build a 40 core for $600 with a Dell t7920 so that's on the table because I can get 1300w psu. So you can see how I'm thinking. The Dell can be my conversion rig.
my 12700kf/4070 combo works great on linux with a corsair AIO watercooler. i get max 46 degrees Celsius. also cpu frequency scaling is a great way to limit power draw but yeah amd is doing better overall these days i admit.
I have a 13600k with a be quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler since April 2023 and haven't had any issues. Also installed the latest microcode bios updated on my Z790 TUF board and still going strong.
Thats the thing a lot of people arent updating the microcode haha, I had a EVGA Kingpin Z690 sitting around I wanted to use so I waited until EVGA released the 0x29 microcode. They released it 2 weeks ago which is when I bought my 13600k. Temps are great, Overclock temps are great, wattage is even good. It's a great cpu to pair with my 3090.
Yeah, I'm at my PC all day so I tend to check for a new BIOS almost every day and I needed to undervolt because I have a Hyper 212 for cooling lol. So I was already preventing problems that I didn't know could happen.
This is a great video. Earned mu sub with this one. I bought my 13700K in the Fall of 2022, and I ran it in a gaming PC with e 6800XT, then a 7900XTX, with a 280mm AIO, for an average of about an hour per day. I used the default power settings of my Z670 Taichi motherboard, and I have had zero issues. Still, when all the stability issues hit the fore, I took it out of service. I'm about to install the latest 0x12b microcode and start using it again -- for production. I can do that because I have a 7800X3D system ready to assemble -- for gaming. My next faster CPU for production is a 3900X, or maybe it's my 5700X. The 13700K smokes them both. Here's hoping it doesn't smoke itself as well.
If you're just gaming, x3d is a no brainer. But if you do a lot of stuff with your CPU the 13700k is a very good value. It is inefficient at full load, but it uses a lot less power than AMD at idle/light loads which most people spend a lot of time in (eg. browsing web, writing documents, watching videos, etc etc) even in most gaming at 2k/4k where you're gpu bound, it's not any more power hungry than amd... Also intel generally has a lot more headroom for undervolting so you can actually cut a ton of wattage at full load with no performance loss (still not as efficient at full load as amd though).
@@toncica Noctua U12A is enough for the 12700K but kinda noisy on Cinebench. If you want a quiet PC on Cinebench, Corsair 5000D Airflow and Noctua D15 as a top notch air cooled combo. The thermal paste is irrelevant (basically MX4). Is the most power efficent and powerful i7 that can be easily aircooled, check motherboard settings. Intel motherboards for some reason use overclocking settings at "stock", my 12700K was running hot at 220 watts and 90°C, dropped the voltage to sane levels (1.2-1.3) and now almost matched Gamer's Nexus 's max power levels and 67°C. Must be a bugged BIOS.
11:38 From what I’ve read, Nvidia makes graphics cards for a tenth of the price of what they are sold at. They don’t care how affordable they are. They will pump as much as they can out of your wallet. To a point I agree, however they could give a far better product than what they’ve given and at a lower price and still make a good profit. They don’t care though, as long as they can still stay the highest performance and then charge harshly for it. I’m not sure what kind of profit margins a company needs in that industry. But making a graphics card for 35 bucks and then selling it for 350, there has to be a better deal they could give and still have great profits.
For "Eco mode" on Intel you can set up a Power limit in a bios to any number of watts. All intel motherboards have this option. Gigabyte has 6 power limit options you just need to enter the same number to all of them.
@@Anderson_LS that is true, although I do agree with Vex that a "eco mode button" would be nice, that could be found in the Easy bios, easily accessible for all users.
When I saw all these reported issues with 13th & 14th gen I thought to myself I guess I'm the luckiest intel user around, I bought my i9-13900K in late 2022 and never had any stability issues lol (Also quicksync and thunderbolt is no joke I do love these features on intel, my i9 paired with the 7900 XTX is like the perfect combo)
You aren't lucky, there is just a ton of bad hype from people that don't own them. I'm pretty happy with my 13900kf as well. It doesn't have quicksync but I don't use it.
Same with my 14700k, no issues and performs very well. Gets better 0.1% lows than the 7800x3d in a lot of the games I play too. As high end systems all get great max FPS, it's the lows that matter to me most.
@@rluker5344 Well, it is a fact that Intel 13 and 14 are generally more prone to degradation than other generations. Several companies are switching to AMD and press outlets like Hardware Unboxed, Gamers Nexus, Level1Tech, etc have reported this. Even a gaming company called Alderon Games found that virtually all of their Intel-based machines were failing and affecting the performance of servers in the Path of Titans game (of course, a normal consumer PC is one thing, a server with other servers running 24/7 is quite another). As a techno bro hoping to get a good PC by the early next year to work as a Systems Engineer focused on programming, I am not going to go for Intel because I am really afraid that I will be unlucky and my CPU will be very prone to degradation. Yes, microcode, BIOS and firmware updates should prevent degradation in new CPUs but *I already lost confidence in the brand.*
My 14900K and 285K machines are phenomenal performers. 240mm AIO on each with no cooling issues. I'm so glad I make my own decisions after looking at the data instead of listening to unimformed opinions.
At my local Microcenter in Brooklyn the AMD cpu section is always full of people while the Intel section is pretty barren. That is what happens when stock buybacks and paying dividends are more important to you than reinvesting in your core business is.
I just had a technician come and replace my i7 14900F for the 2nd time. Overheated today, called tech support. Now I have to mail in my alienware aurora r16 to be "fixed" by engineers. Cost me 1500$ and all I got was a proprietary space heater. Feel pretty defeated. Can't edit videos. YT is in the toilet.
that sounds more like the terrible alienware case design rearing it's ugly head. I have never seen my 13700k hit above 85C even with a full 250W load, partially cause I got lucky and am stable at -170mV partially cause I have good airflow in my case.
I’ve bought this exact CPU a few months after its launch, in january 2023. My decision prioritized productivity instead of gaming (which I honestly rarely do anymore). So far so good. This thing is snappy and still as blazingly fast as it was back then when I turned on the pc for the first time. Luckily, I didn’t experienced yet any of the issues that some costumers lately have been reporting with intel CPUs. That being said, one should keep in mind that these Raptor Lake do run quite hot under heavier loads, getting way hotter much faster than any other CPU I’ve used before. It does demand a robust cooling system to perform without throttling and to avoid physical damage due to the heat. Personally I’m using a 360mm AIO from Lian Li and it’s been holding itself pretty well at the task. I think changing the original CPU frame is a good idea too, as it may help to prevent the CPU from bending as well as to better dissipate the heat it produces.
The problem with heat isn't just physical damage to the CPU... It also heats up your room to unbearable levels in the summer and your wife divorces you when she sees the electricity bill.
You can cool even a 13900k for less than $45 without throttling. 1. Get a $8 contact frame 2. Get a $35 thermalright phantom spirit This setup can compete with aios and can tame that beast.
Amazing review. So much details, so much work. Amazing. Editing skills are also top notch. I was rocking intel for years and noticed a weird problem with RAM after around a year, I couldn't run XMP anymore. And was generating more heat , crazy.
Guys, he forgot that the quick sync video has worse compression (quality) than the libx265 and hevc_nvenc, even in max compression level the other two smash quick sync (the only good reason i see to use quick sync is using it with obs cause, for some reason, obs retain good quality even in the fastest preset, and you won't kill 10% of your gpu for encoding) But in ffmpeg, sadly, the nvenc beats the others (althought the libx265 gives ±1/2 file size from the hevc_nvenc but, i bet you put your 13700k to compress a video in slow preset and tell it's fast (experience from a 9750h + 2060)) Edit 999: all the experience said up there was using -cq (constant quality) and -cq sucks in quick sync, you'll have to go with -b:v (bit rate video) if you want good results (didn't test crf in quick sync cuz cq is better in other codecs)
Ran an FX 8350, then upgraded to a 6700K on release. The difference was just incredible, even if the 8350 still wasn't "bad" at that time, still true 8 core compared to intel. This made me think the 13th gen intel was still the better choice. Shopped around, and the 13600K was the better value. Cheaper, while providing similar or better performance than AMD's offerings at even 15% higher price. 13600K on a pretty mid tier MOBO, running a Noctua U14s (single tower air cooler) gets great temps, runs quiet and stable. I have had zero issues with it. Then I had to help my neighbour with his amd 5800x that had major overheating issues, even with a 240 AIO or twin tower air cooler. A bios update fixed it. That felt a little sketchy. With that said, if I where to buy a new PC today, I would go 7xxx or 9xxx series AMD. But 13th gen wasn't bad, unless you looked at the i9...
It's literally just group think form the vocal minority. People just want to confirm their biases. There's obvious discussion to be had on legit hardware issues. It's fair to say that the issues with voltage on intel should scare joe normie - but it feels like this area of tech tube is the semi-informed normie. They act like a low level it suits them, and act informed when it suits them. Why someone like Frame chasers can identify the massive voltage spikes on boost cores causing the degradation, while everyone else with a semi large platform faffs about?
Yeah, 14900k without issues here. Kinda annoying to see most tech tubers get on the hate train, it was annoying when they were on the Intel train for a loooong time and now it's annoying they are on the AMD train. Stop getting on trains. (my second system is AMD and i have an AMD laptop, in before any bias comments)
@@Greez1337 Yeah, the voltage degradation is a huge issue for sure, but it's not like Intel isn't replacing chips or addressing it. AMD had a similar problem with their chips a long time ago, and they had to do the same thing. It's just funny hearing people say "Intel is dead!" just because their top chips can't provide 1% performance gains over their rivals when the majority of gamers won't ever notice the difference.
I've had a 13700k for a really long time now, like multiple years now. And, I haven't noticed any type of frame drops or performance decreases. Stock motherboard settings too.
Well, I've tried unplugging power mid gigabyte bios update and it just goes back to the previous bios you where using on its own. Its impossible to brick the board no matter what stage of the bios update you unplug power, early mid or late, same outcome.
Just got 13700k myself. Runs at 70 degrees, pulls 77 watts sim racing on 1440p triples. Just takes 5 minute undervolt. $250. 5 year warranty. Gaming performance on par with 7800xd and completely DEDTROYS it in everything else. Keep trashing them please. Can’t wait to pick up a new 14900k for $250 lol.
@@DrMicoco AMD is only better in performance performance watt. They perform around the same but intel uses double the power in some cases. And rhe microcode patch it out and has been for some time so the cpu dont kill itself. And what you amd fans dont get is that intel falling behind means the amd has no competition and there for can charge more money per chip if they want. Some amd cpus blow up too, even breaking the cpu socket also. They also have problems.
@mikkelgraff6879 "Some amd cpus blow up too, even breaking the cpu socket also", yep, on one manufacturer, with few cpus and only needed a mb bios update to fix. There is a difference between a faulty mb setting to a basic architectural cpu issue.
I never even knew about the issues until i saw a few videos like this. I got a open box 13700k from microcenter about 2 years ago for $300. I do as i always do, and immediately tweak the vcore to lessen the power draw and heat. Havent had a single problem since. But i get that im a "power user". I am just the kind of person that has to know how and why things work, or i wont own it. I also upgraded to a contact frame, but got zero improvement. Im still on the original bios from 2 years ago as well. If it aint broke, dont mess with it. Infact ive always hated that every cpu has a voltage set from the factory way too high. All for the problem of probably very few cpus that actually need it that high to run stock.
Probably someone already commented this but the reason older F7 bios (with letters) were removed is because they were beta bios versions. It's a gigabyte weird naming scheme.. So basically F1, F2 etc. is a normal "release" version while F6b, F7f etc. is a beta.
What's up with the 7800X3D anyways? Are they discontinuing it all together or just artificially creating panic to make people buy the 9800X3D at launch? I see it's still about $280 on AliExpress but no idea how smart it is to order it from there
Black friday scam again, raising prices so that they can nickel and dime unsuspecting shoppers and during the black friday sales, they're going to do "deep" discounts
By the way the 13th and 14th gen i5, namely the 13600K and 14600K, have been insane value. They have what should be i7-level performance, and go head to head with the Ryzen 7 (non-X3D), not Ryzen 5. They also don't heat up as much and have not been reported as suffering the fates of their higher-tier siblings.
Thank god. I bought the 13600kf at $175 because it was a great deal. I was aware of the fact I probably need to undervolt it with my okay ish air cooler. Hopefully it survives for years to come.
A built a new PC this which is not something i do often like every 5-10 years and upgrade my GPU every 3-5 years depending on if i need to, after a ton of research i picked the i5-13600k and was quite happy with it. The temps under load with a air cooler was kind of crazy but i was happy enough then the intel stability issues started i was running my I5 with a 300mhz overlock via Microsoft's own auto overclock software. The next couple months sucked i ended up having only a few crashes from a VRAM error message and my CPU was sucking down more watts then it was when it was built barely a few months before. So after scrambling around and being generally destressed about the issue i managed to convince amazon to take my CPU and MOBO back for a 20% restocking fee, and then went to a opening day microcenter in Miami and got a 7800x3d for 314 and a b650 MAG tomahawk for 167 i ended up spending a little over 40 bucks to switch to AM5 and consider my self very damn lucky. And when you consider the reviews for Arrow Lake intel has not learned a damn thing. Also personal note from using a i5-13600k and a 7800x3d the temps in use aren't to different for me the idle for the I5 was lower but the in use was higher then the 7800x3d BUT the i5 felt like it was pushing way more head out of my case then then 7800x3d which i guess is the higher power draw? no idea. Bottom line for me was spending half a grand on my cpu/mobo combo and having it start to fail within in a few months is ridicules. Also the 2nd hard market for all 13/14th gen CPUs is basically going to be gambling how many damaged CPUS are in the wild now? who's going to want to buy one??
I used to rock a Ryzen 1700, and I still can't wrap my head around how a 4 core 12100f is about as fast in multi core workloads and completely obliterates the zen 1 cpu in games.
13900K @ 5.9Ghz, 8000Mhz RAM (or secondary profile of 6800Mhz, 1T, Gear 2 mode) as a gaming + workstation PC has been an absolute blast. Oddly enough in Battlefield 2042 I get more FPS than my friend with a 7800X3D. We both have RTX 4080 GPU's.
@@yonghominale8884 Optimize in what way? He's running an undervolt + XMP or whatever the AMD equivalent is. And I won't have any degrading :) Not all games benefit from the 3D cache.
20:54 he hasnt mentioned anywhere whether the liquid cooling test was left to run for an hour so it could reach equilibrium. If it was, the CPU temps would be very similar. In the end the only difference is achieved by increasing the air interface surface area and starting with lower temperature air, if cfm is the same. Water cooling is not better, it is actually slightly less efficient from a surface area pov. It just has more total surface area than an air cooler. In short: if you want actual better cooling with a sustained load, make sure you have a significant amount more radiator volume than the current wisdom holds. Three 240mm fans worth for starters.
I'm not excusing intel's incompetence, but man.. Yall perpetuate internet hysteria like crazy. Meanwhile an AM5 MB costs over $200, 16GB of DDR5 $100, and the cheapest AM5 CPU? over $200. I'm buying a 12700k, MB, and 16GB DDR4 for $300. Why is AM5 still an overpriced platform?
@@kaputinkaputin i guess you missed the AMD CPUs exploding last year. Which Gamers Nexus proved Multiple times. the overwhelming majority of LGA 1700 intel owners have no problems. You're part of the hysteria.
Well, comparing cost of used Intel system to new AMD system ain't really a fair game, is it? 12700K costs ~220 USD, 16GB of good DDR4 costs ~50 bucks and you are not getting a good board that can actually sustain 12700K performance for $100 or less. The good boards start at around 150, and often go for $200 as well. So the difference is not anywhere as crazy as you portray it
Plus. on top of that, you have to factor in the cooling. AMD can be cooled by the cheapest coolers. I've run 16 core parts under $10 coolers without problems or performance loss. Good luck cooling 12700K with a cheap cooler
My PC is mainly for gaming but I do other things from time to time. I live in a basement suite in a house surrounded by trees so its always cool-cold. During the winter my PC literally is my space heater as I do not control the furnace. Its my GPU doing the heating though! I've been lucky over the decades as to hardware failures, or lack there of. I run stability tests on this thing fairly frequently & it looks like I dodged the bullet yet again as to the microcode, so far. Electricity is dirt cheap here so I dont much care about the power draw. Having said that I'll probably go 9950X3D next build. I hear its a monster.
yeah im not gonna lie i was defending intel but i bought a brand new intel i5-12600k and its giving me a lot of issues random pc freezes like unrecoverable pc freezes it doesnt even blue screen i know its the cpu because i had a 12100 in there before and it was fine and i checked again when i bought a new cooler it doesnt have bent pins i have a 750 watt evga psu and it does its job but randomly i feel like my gpu just doesnt know when to work? i know its not my gpu because i have 3 and it did the problem with all of them so im seriously considering going all amd and possibly in the future a intel gpu but id rather go amd rn because of its prices to performance
I'm using Nvidia and Intel, simply because of software compatibility/efficiency for certain design applications. But when you're using the PC only for gaming, you should get AMD for both the GPU and CPU...
Even with bloat these i7s are extremely fast and definetly is the core count and clockspeed, the IPC is very high. The 7800X3D is simply sluggish in Windows use, i tried my i7-12700K with E-Cores disabled and it feels sluggish as well.
Do you own a Ryzen 9 PC? A friend has a 5900X and is just as snappy as my 12700K. I just noticed recently how massive the difference cores and threads do make when i switched from a Haswell i7 to a Zen 1 Ryzen 7.
I was on Intel for a decent number of years. Talking like...2012. Sure I liked the performance all well and good but my god would the room get hot. And there were many times where I considered upgrading to the next generation, only to further worry about the higher costs AND heat. Wasn't until around 2022 that I switched things up with a amd ryzen 9 5900x. The cost was ridiculously low for me especially since I was going full on build-a-new-computer-mode. Three years later here and I still love it. All my games (up to Alan Wake 2 most recently) and project editing/art apps run smooth and I'm not having to pop the AC on. Sadly, throwing power at cpu's and gpu's along with upscalers like DLSS, seems to be what many of these manufacturers are aiming towards now instead of optimizations in software. I'm sure we can all look forward to more failure rates and house fires in the future!
kinda funny 10 years ago i had a AMD System and i said to myself i will never buy a AMD System again because of all the problems. went in 2017 for a i7 7700K and in early 2022 to the i7 12700KF and i´m since then happy with it and yes i´m playing in 1080p with a RTX 4080
The only time my family had an AMD CPU was before year 2000. I think it was a K5. It didn't go well and my father went back to Pentium lol. I built my first own rig in 2015 and back then AMD had a terrible reputation so of course I went with an i5-4590 and later upgraded to an i7-4790. Early this year I got a 10400 + B460 Aorus Pro AC combo from a friend for $59. The deal was so good there was no way I could say no to that, and now it's my current gaming system. I don't really play AAA games these days so I'm pretty confident that this rig will last me at least a few years more. That said I might be interested in going with AMD next, assuming that they provide better value than Intel by the time I need the next build. I've only been using old CPUs since 2019 so it's quite a lot different from how most people build their PCs.
@@thimblemunch24 K10-based AM3 CPU's like the Phenom II competed pretty well with Intel at the time... the problem being that they were competitive with later Core 2 CPU's and not the first i7's which were already released on the enthusiast socket 1366, so the bar was raised - otherwise I'd say it was the peak of dark ages AMD (2006-2016). AM3+ on the other hand (which carried the notorious FX CPUs) was a joke and even fell behind faster Phenom II X6's in some cases, and it only got worse later on when development for it was effectively abandoned after the release of the FX-8350 in 2012.
what the bloody hell are you talking about ? On Intel you can quickly and easily control voltage, power settings, limits, cores and clocks, on what planet are you on ? I have no issues on my ASUS Z790 ROG motherboard with my INTEL CPU.
I still remember this two-month period from November to December 2022, when the 13900K was the absolute king of CPUs. Released right when the 4090 was, it basically became what most people bought. 7000X3D had a rough launch, and it really seemed as if Arrow Lake was launched a year earlier like it was supposed to, Intel would be in a really good place right now.
@@griffin1366 I guess the thing with Intel is that it lets you game at *almost* 7800X3D levels while letting you do some actual productivity. Meanwhile, Arrow Lake decides "Hm, let's scrap that and instead make it even worse for games while giving basically zero productivity uplift, besides a better iGPU for video encoding." Considering that the instability issue is fixed, an i9-14900KS is looking like a better deal with every passing day. That's until 3D-Vcache no longer sacrifices productivity performance of course.
@@RobloxianX But if you take a 7950X3D right now, you have better gaming performance, about equal production performance, and its capped at 160W vs the 14900KS' 320W in extreme profile (or 253W on performance). There is also the matter that you can likely upgrade to the 11950X3D in a few years, which is cheaper than buying an entirely new platform... 14900KS and the 7950X3D are priced similarly, 650$ But the 14900K and the 7950X are a lot cheaper, with the 7800X3D closer to this pair, 450$ If you care about gaming and productivity, then the 7950X3D seems the smarter choice. If you care about gaming, then the 7800X3D seems the smarter choice, because it also has an easy upgrade later. And if you are after productivity, then the application is the deciding factor. 14900K or 7950X would both work, and again, the 7950X has an easy upgrade path in the future. Even on price I see no reason to go intel as the market is currently.
Wendel over at Level 1 Tech says having the CPU under cooled will actually save it and prevent it from killing itself. The better cooled eg. water cooling the higher the odds of it blowing itself up because the voltage will continue to increase itself to ruination if the temps are all within the envelops, however if the CPU senses it's running too hot it will thermal throttle itself which will save it.
I'd change that title to: "These Intel CPUs are worthless". Even if the current round of CPUs are not much of an improvement (AMD 's too) having two companies really competing is a very good thing for all of us.
I agree, but Intel must save themselves. Arrow Lake is not an upgrade, it's more a refresh. It regresses in many areas, particularly gaming. Intel needs to price the 285k (aka 15900k) the same or (even better) $50 less than the 14900k AND guarantee platform support an additional cpu generation. A small incentive for consumers to support them thru their transition. It's Business 101 to understand, you must bring VALUE when you're sitting at the bottom. Intel's performance in the last few yrs from 13K cpus to 14k and now 15k is ridiculous. Their slow demise is self-inflicting.
I have a 13600K, z690 and 32gb 4000MHz ram. Best combo I ever had. I do rendering, gaming, sometimes for 12 hours straight. Never had stability issues. On the other hand, my old Ryzen 5600... well
I have been using Intel 13700k with AMD 7900XTX and 32 gb of ddr5 at 6400MHz for 20 months and had zero problems with it. Works great in all games, no problems at maxed settings 1440p/165hz. Yes the cpu is warmer and less energy efficient that the competition, but my air cooled cpu rarely get hoter than 60-75°C during heavy gaming. Yes you must update bios to the latest just in case, but everything else is fine.
that realy nice ! my 14700k runs pcores 5.7ghz ecores 4.5ghz hitting 37k in cinebench r23 . cpu at 1.35v with offset -0.100v 253watt intel default with 64gb ddr5 cl36 6000mhz on new microcode
The 13700K won't die on you, 14th gen had even higher voltages than 13th because of the higher clock speeds, which made them degrade faster. For example my CPU had the max VID of 1.309V, giving it more longevity than other models with higher VID. If you really want to see dying CPUs, swap it to maybe a 13900K but more like a 14900K. Those beasts have way higher VIDs, making the overall avg voltage way higher for them. I got my 13700k on day1 (basically it's 2 years old now), never had a single issue except bad memory OC attempts.
Servers with close to 100% failure rates profes it is a silicon issue not only high voltage. Idk if the same channel made a video about it 3 months ago.
Pretty cool to see the power draw difference a fan makes in numbers. 5% or 9 watts delta with 72C 86C and 164w to 173w is quite big and makes it worth running a big and good fan.
Fun fact, I bought my 11700K for $150 new from Micro Center a few years back because that was the start of when nobody wanted to buy Intel anymore because it wasn't good and, you know, it's only good for the money. It's horribly power inefficient and not very performant compared to the 5800X.
@@robicelus I only got it because of the price I got the combo at. So that would not have been to my benefit. The only cooler I could afford with the money I had left is barely enough with 2 fans maxxed out and attached.
You need a more expensive motherboard because it must have good VRMs, you need a more expensive cooler to handle the heat and you will spend more money long term on electricity, but that's something that almost no one considers at the time of purchase
Limiting it to 125W is perfectly fine, especially for gaming. Productivity is still up there too. 125W x 4 hours a day at $0.20c per kW/h is only $36.53 a year. 7800X3D is equivalent to $21.92 a year.
8:23 notice how an identical cooler is able to keep the 145W Intel CPU at 63C whereas the AMD CPU is hitting 89C from a mere 66W load. So you actually need a better cooler with the lower power AMD x3D CPU.
@@longdang2681 Notice how Vex himself said that the temperatures aren't directly comparable and that installing a higher power cooler on the 7800X3D would do nothing to lower them? Not that it matters, since it's not like it ever thermal throttles.
@@HunterTracks Doesn't change the fact that you don't need an more expensive cooler for the Intel system versus AMD x3D. It's flawed logic to immediately assume that a higher wattage CPU will need more cooling capacity(this is only true if you are comparing CPUs with similar thermal transfer ability). Even if the numbers aren't directly comparable, 26C difference is still quite big for the 12% performance increase. It's no secret that x3D chips don't transfer thermal energy as well as regular chips.
i got a 13700k a couple months after launch for my first system and it's always worked fine for me. Whole system feels super responsive no matter what i throw at it. P+E cores are what made me go intel. Was pretty disappointed to hear about the degradation and voltage problems but somehow i feel as though my processor wasn't affected
lol, Intel Arrow Lake is not making them look any better
Quick little correction: at 27:25 the undervolt testing I did was on the "Gigabyte Optimized" Profile as it was on the F6 Bios. Both sides are the same, I just labeled it wrong- my b
Hope you enjoy this and it can help set the stage for Intel. This has been a monstrous project :)
deduct -30 from amd because you know amd fake fans, they like to pretend online
you should try space marine 2 . some battles the game is cpu limited at 1080p ... also flight simulator is also cpu limited even at 4k
If you're sitting on a 13900k, looking to upgrade Intel, where do you go? 14900k is maybe 3% faster? 285k (aka 15900k) req the purchase of a new single-use mb, is, at best another 2 or 3%.
Surely, they aren't expecting AMD owners on AM4/AM5, to bypass or move off 5800x3d/7800x3d to purchase a lackluster cpu with no platform future. Who is their customer? Why would they pay more for less, with no 'olive branch' extension or commitment from Intel?
Consoles are BETTER THAN PC HAHAHA PC IS 🗑️🤣
@@cctv2500 Lol, This is what you do when your dad steps away from his PC with it unlocked? Smh
Im pretty sure AM4 is the main reason so many people are on AMD platforms. Its amazing how long this platform is lastinng and still provides great perfomance.
its amazing how AM4 somehow still beats even AM5 CPUs. No one really wants to buy ANOTHER motherboard with their CPU. "Future proofing" by buying the highest end everything is actually the worst thing you can do because it leaves no room to move
@@Mr.GenesisAM4 does not beat AM5 CPUs, unless you're comparing 5800X3D to 7600X for some reason.
I absolutely despise the 3000 series from AMD 3700X was a scam AMD was literally giving us a 2015 powered CPU in 2019 I built a rig in 2020 and was already bottlenecked am I was really behind however they seem to make it up with the 5000 series but let's be real here what's the point of upgrading through the same platform if they're just going to give us garbage performance for its time heck we're already seeing that right now with am 5 9000 series Dead on arrival and the x3d variants are garbage as well by the look of the leaks 8% better my butt
🙂 agree, i dont need another computer right now but if i needed one i like the Ryzen 7 lineup and the nicer AM4 ATX Boards, right now the Ryzen 7's for AM4 are alot cheaper than i7s, it wasnt like that a few years ago. I like anything that has 8 cores and 16 threads.
i am tottaly skipping am5 with my 2019 x470 gaming 7 and 3600X upgraded to 5950X few months ago
There are several CEOs in this world today running companies straight into the ground.
The direction with Intel's Core Ultra is a good example of this. Intel was almost about to axe Battlemage as well. Because Intel's CEO says that nobody needs a discrete graphics card.
@@BigJohnno66 - The CEO is right, at least not an intel card.
@@lJUSTwanaCOMMENTnow they're running behind trying to make a GPU for stupid AI
The real problem is that CEOs are basically useless morons coming out of stupid Ivy leagues without any real world knowledge of how anything works.
It's like a caste or class systems where they basically have their job given in a plate, its pure nepotism.
There's no merit, they produce no value for shareholders , yet they have the required creds to get the job, meanwhile no engineer from the trenches are even going to be promoted to the manager class.
Remember when Intel was founded and run by an engineer ? Yeah, that can't happen anymore.
It's all because of Wallstreet and their stupid fake numbers.
I wonder why companies even pay their high salaries, except for marketing reasons , like a pedigree dog , just for show.
You could literally replace 99% of the CEOs with AI and no one asked would notice, except the companies might run better without the drag of the managerial class, and actually produce value for customers and shareholders.
@@BigJohnno66 i mean nobody needs a discrete graphics card i agree with that
Seeing the 13700k use 145 Watts, just to compete head-to-head with the 7800x3D that's using 65 Watts, is really unsettling. Performance be damned, but the Ryzen CPU is just so much more efficient, it's not even funny anymore. In Frames/Watt the Ryzen system really has no competition with the Intel one.
Comparing max power consumption, Intel is 253W and the Ryzen is 120W.
Of course the intel one performs better.
No one has ever cared about efficiency for gaming rigs, even back when amd used multiples the power to do the same thing as Intel.
@ You are straight up wrong.
@@thehavok4258 my brain just hurt from reading this.
Why then don't you get older top of the line hardware like a 2080ti or even two of them instead of the new RTX4060? Probably because the GPU from this year with the performance of a 2080ti uses 2/3 the power, but that's none of your concern. Operating cost isn't worthy of being considered anyway.
Or thought bigger, why don't you get yourself a clothes dryer with traditional resistance heating, it's so cheap! And it will only use 5x the power of one with a heat pump, but that costs 2x as much to buy. Who the hell cares about operating cost anyway, that's for nerds.
Have I made my point clear?
@@maxdergroe9082 I'm sorry simple things make your head hurt.
So, there's a thing called a used market. You know, where people buy used older things and it's in some cases a bigger to significantly bigger market than buying new. Like cars for example. Most people buy cheaper less efferent used cars over new. Same goes for pc hardware which is thriving at all times. Ever hear of ebay? Probably not judging by your comment, but it's real. 132 million people use it every year.
You can't run sli or crossfire anymore and people absolutely did buy second gpu's over buying a new one all the time. Even when those setups hardly worked right at the best of times and flat out didn't work at their worst. Why do you think it's not available anymore, it's not because people didn't use it. It's because it was a pain to implement and the game devs have to support it and didn't at times and it was buggy.
No one cares about power draw. If they did, no one would be buying 500 watt gpu's and the market never would have moved passed 250 watt gpu's. Btw, clearly you don't know this, but 4090's can draw 500 watts and people shunt mod them to draw 600. Because no one cares. Get over it.
I paid $560 for a defective space heater. Never again.
i9 9900k here its not bad but it sounds like i got off the boat before it sank im excited to try amd for my next rig
Same I paid $700 for the 14900K. Oxidized and dead on my carpet, switched to 7800X3D :)
That is the thing though. Is not horrible to go Intel if you are building something cheap but if you want to go big money then you are better with AMD because those i9 suck and need as much power as a nuclear submarine.
But if you find a cheap i5 or an older generation cheap i7 is not that horrible for a lower budget built.
But generally i think i5 is the best for an Intel system because that CPU will probably be good enough with air-cooling while you might need more for an i7 and if you start buying watercoolers you are ruining the cheap built.
I picked up a z690 DDR5 board and 12700F on release with the plan of updating to the latest CPU the board supported in a couple years time. I'm glad I got 12th gen but now I can't upgrade. Last time I ever buy intel
Get it replaced under warranty.
AM4 was AMD's best strategy of their company's existence. It has played out so well. Lisa Su truly had a vision with it.
She's a glorified PR person. You praise her only because she's a her. When any other company does something good, you don't praise the CEO.
@@kaczan3 jesse wtf are you talking about
@@kaczan3 She's an actual engineer. Why do you think she's called Dr Lisa Su. Do your research instead of speading FUD.
*YEAH*, exactly! The *vision* is the most important - and keeping the promises of 5-year support of the platform! Amazing! I *LOVE* AMD because of this vision. ............ But don't get me wrong, it was NOT without problems. There are *ALWAYS* some problems with a *completely* NEW HW / NEW CPU_architecture........
And what AMD did and released in April of 2017 was a pretty *brave* LEAP OF FAITH !! They *created* a completely NEW architecture from scratch and at the same time they *SHRINKED* their manufacturing_process from their previous_experience 32nm and 40nm SOI ...... to 14nm ! No one has EVER done this before, NEVER! So I am really impressed it went SO WELL ----- I mean: with ONLY RAM_controller INSTABILITY!
In the beginning (Ryzen 1800X, HW revision 00) - it was a VERY *painful* experience gaming on it !!! ... I mean - even with the most compatible RAM (G.Skill 3600) running at the BASE frequency of DDR4-2400, it was still UNSTABLE = randomly FREEZING ... a lot - but ONLY when fully loaded... there were only a handful of games capable of FULLY loading this 8-core BEAST..... : CRYSIS III, Metro Exodus and HL: ALYX . These were crashing the most of all - on Ryzen 1800X !!! ... but the newer CPUs - they ALL already have a 100% stable RAM controller. So, no more problems after upgrading the CPU to 5800X and later to 5800X3D ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Reminder that the poll doesn't show that more people have AMD, its that more AMD people respond to these kinds of polls because AMD buyers zealously watch youtube tech channels more than intel buyers.
Intel is using a 10nm process (called Intel 7 process node) while AMD is using a 5nm process , that directly contributes to the differences in power usage. That is because Intel fabs its own chips, while AMD contracts TSMC to manufacture them, and TSMC is so far ahead of Intel in chip fab technology. On the flip side it is why when a new Intel chip is released you can buy it in volume from day 1, but when a new AMD chip is released it takes a while to get any stock because AMD is negotiating with TSMC, as TSMC is also making chips for Apple and host of other companies.
And Intel is only behind because of how insanely aggressive they were being when trying to get to 10nm and below. Their original 10nm would have been as dense or slightly denser than TSMCs 5nm. Due to that it made it harder to hit those and have a viable and profitable process.
Intel is about to move to their 18A and if it goes well should be ahead of TSMC. If you look at most process designs at the same nm, Intel is usually denser than TSMC or Samsung.
Good argument
Should learn from AMD - they sold their fab, all factories and assets, patents, AND technology.. to TSMC! 😀
NVIDIA... does TSMC.
@domainmojo2162 That's not what they did. AMD spun their FABs off into what is called GlobalFoundries. Originally AMD was going to use GF but they fell behind in process tech so they switched to TSMC.
And it isn't the best option always. They have no control over the process technology and have to fight with Apple and nVidia for FAB space which can leave them with less stock to sell.
@@dregothic It's just Negotiation. Not a big issue - as long as you have competent negotiators. There are delays... but with planning- which AMD seems to manage, it really isn't that big a deal. Every decision has it's downsides- you just need to manage it and b prepared to meet those challenges.
That's all it costs.. and that is an everyday thing between businesses and a skill that many people can master.
I would've liked for AMD to keep hold of their fabs, but yeah- when the going gets tough...
Still... they will have options in future and all this allows them to better concentrate on what they're good at. Best decision for us all. Imagine if that never happened..
We wouldn't have these same failing issues, but we woulda been stuck buying CPUs right now, at premium, with massive power profiles... and Intel would've just gone- "Bend down a little more! Grab your ankles... and spread 'em!" .. while they're pumping away! (without applying any Vaseline or KY)
I'm sure low-end, budget CPUs would've been, like 200 MSRP, with massive power profiles in excess of 200W, and we wouldn't have been able to do a d_mn3d thing.
I’ve had this 13700k for about a year now. No issues, I love it. I live in Michigan and it’s cold half year round so I got no issue with the heat either lol.
Its also almost half cheaper than 7800 x3d. 95% peoples i know here in EU use intel cpu, because AMD cpus go to insane price and never sold at msrp.
@@Ernest.J same here in asia. Like cpu us for both work and gaming for us.
Same, I have a 13900k mild undervolt from new and it rocks with no issues.
I agree. And if one wants a less power hungry verson/less heat, there are always 13700 and 13700T versions, running at 65 and 35 Watts. They do pretty well all things considering.
This video is clickbyte. Here is data: i7-13700K TDP typical 125W while Ryzen 7 9800X3D (similar to Intel but about 5% less performance) typical TDP: 120W so TDP are almost the same.
28:12 you undervolted too much and CPU protection mechanism started to stretch the clocks. So effectively the CPU was running few hundreds MHz slower.
Or, alternatively, CEP was just trigger happy just for sake of it and you could undervolt further with it disabled. So yeah, give it a shot. Intel runs these CPUs at voltages they needed at launch, not now, when they got way more experience in producing these. Their node also still matures and gets better as the time passes. So Intel CPUs generally undervolt like crazy, just like Zen 4 CPUs do now vs. launch
But when your undervolt a 13700k while locking the core clocks to 5.3 Ghz in theory you shouldn't lose performance ?
@@Osaka2407 Each individual CPU is going to have its own voltage table based on binning at the manufacturer.
@@AngryChineseWoman Depends. You should not loose performance by just undervolting alone but when CEP is triggered or logic just isn't stable enough, it will start to stretch the clocks. It will seem that CPU holds frequency just fine but the actual performance will be lowered. If it's CEP triggering, you may disable it and try to UV further. BUT! IIRC turning CEP off also prevents or limits clock stretching so while you may achieve even better results, there is also risk of instability as CPU will crash instead of just stretching the clocks in heavy load scenario you may have not tested for
@@danieljackheck Yes, but the binning stays on the really safe side. You usually can UV by 50 mV. If you use good MB, set VRM correctly, -70-100 mV often is doable. Personally I was able to UV one 12700K by 110 mV and I've seen people doing even more without loosing performance, which is crazy.
By sacrificing couple hundred MHz, peaking at around 1.15-1.2V under load is nothing unusual on Alder and Raptor Lake.
I guess the older ones are okay. I got a i7 7700 and have had zero issues with it for the 4 years I have had it. I got it used along with my Used memory, used GTX 1080, Used motherboard, Used NvmeM.2 and my used ssd. All used and still running fine.
I had to delid my 7700k within a week of installing it because the thermal compound was horrible.. but once I added some liquid metal under the heat spreader it was a beast. Overclocked really easy and stayed cool.
I now have a 13700k lol
Works fine for me
I'm still on an i5-2500, still happy. I do coding and some gaming
@@anquelmarthofor coding I'd say almost any CPU is good.
yeah, 13th and 14th gen are the problem child, 12th gen and below and intel runs with no issues
NVIDIA needs to pay attention to what happens to greedy companies.
"they lived happily ever after"? - Willy Wonka
they raise to billions of net worth. in case of nvidia.
@@itsTyrion Intel also used to be incredibly successful, but if nvidia does the same thing where they hold top status for a few years and stop trying to innovate because they believe amd will not catch up, AMD or someone else will do the same thing to them as AMD did to intel
Green don't care as long as they are on top. Performance increases lead to price increases. They wrote the book on market manipulation and price gouging.
It’ll never happen as long as the nonsensical “green” vs “red” bullshite continues that creates diehard fanboys of either side to run defense for companies on why they do X/Y/Z in subtle ways to completely justify it …
I mean, seriously. People have somehow been able to rationalize that it’s totally fine and perfectly normal to have a GPU be sold for over $2k on the market due to hype built up around it by giving the justification of “but good performance tho”, especially when *SOLD OUT* appears for them at retailers that makes people buy into the hype even more that they gotta’ have it.
Can’t wait to see how ridiculous things will be in another 5 years and how people will still continue to pull out the “but they’re advancing with tech, so they gotta’ charge that much” nonsense. It’ll be a never-ending trajectory upwards with pricing with that type of logic, making it so they never ever have to come back down to reasonable prices ever again because “but that tech tho” - “budget build” then will be waiting 5-7 years for a card to be under $350 at the rate we’re going now… and even then, that’s using the word _budget_ very loosely …
I don't know man. It's not that the engineers on the Intel production floor were screaming that there would be quality control issues and management told them to kick rocks. It's not the power efficiency. It's not the reliability. The big problem for me was that Intel gaslit OEM partners and lied to customers for TWO YEARS deflecting blame for a problem that they 100% knew about ahead of time. I won't touch their lazy designs until executive management gets purged. Throwing 50% of your net worth into the trash and setting yourself back 40 years isn't a great way to turn the company around. Why would I reward their stupidity by sending them my cash when I can buy objectively better stuff for less? 12th gen was great but look at the longevity of AM4. 13 looked lazy before we knew about the reliability and performance issues. 14 was a waste of sand. With Ultra they actually managed to look worse. Intel is now the 50% off bargain bin option. Brutal.
Unfortunately they are too big to fail and government is going to bail them out with our tax money so we can compete with China, instead of just firing their failures of executives to save money especially considering they just made massive layoffs to regular workers and if it is really that important to American success maybe it should, idk, be run by people who are looking out for American's best interests rather than personal financial gain.
But that's socialism! Of course bailing them out with taxes, that's not socialism, that's just good foreign policy. Ridiculous. If they are going to get bailed out by American taxpayers, the American taxpayers should own it. Same with all those banks that robbed the American people twice.
Unfortunately, we have an entire political party controlling at least half the elected positions who are completely opposed to the government doing anything but putting money in their allies pockets while taking it out of the pockets of the American taxpayers.
But they say they want small government, except when it comes to using taxpayer money to fix the broken free market. In that case, the free market and capitalism is wrong and needs to be propped up by government, but the government and American people shouldn't control the businesses it is financially supporting with taxpayer funds.
Anyone who isn't brainwashed can see how this is completely hypocritical and doesn't make sense, and if something is critical to the public good and success of America as a whole it should be heavily regulated and controlled, especially if American taxpayers are going to be forced to financially invest in it with literally no expectation of receiving anything in return but a passable alternative to foreign produced chips, or having predatory banks and lending that is literally designed to suck as much money from you AND the American government to enrich just a few selfish oxygen thieves.
Plus they can feed that money they stole into propaganda and lobbying politicians, and in getting their Republican votes to be worth more through the electoral college and gerrymandering and lax bribery and lobbying and financial investment laws.
It's just so ridiculous. Advanced Micro Devices should rebrand to American Made Design or Devices and take over Intel's chip making with government investment if they really believe in the "free market" and care that much to use taxpayer money to prop up an American chip maker.
Intel has already went the same route as Boeing, which has left us in the space faring hands solely of a crazy billionaire supervillain basically.
Man, America has really gone downhill since the whole "Declaration of Independence," thing.
Sad to see my personal issues with Intel in 2001 are still ongoing for folks today, I don't usually keep track of this anymore because I haven't been in a situation it mattered for years, but they were profoundly bad in dealing with resellers back then while AMD Australia were incredible comms wise in addressing what was happening and not beating about the bush.
Nobody today knows 100% what's going on. Least of all is you.
Engineers screaming that there would be quality control issues and the management telling them to kick rocks was the main reason for the downfall of two iconic American companies from different industries but with pretty much the same problems now: *Intel* and *Boeing.* The similarities are striking, the comparison unavoidable.
@@goytabr no one knew there'd be any issues with idling wafers. It's likely it's not fully understood. So it's nothing anyone has any right to scream about. The history of our rise is a comedy of errors. That's how it works. We make mistakes and then learn from them. Success is falling down seven times and getting up eight.
I was sold on AMD when their first generation Ryzen came out. The price to performance was unmatched, and I didn't give a shit about having the fastest possible chip. I just didn't understand why people kept going intel with their ridiculous prices.
Imo the real dealbreaker has always been the socket changes all the time, while amd continues to support AM4 for way longer. And of course, the 13/14th gen fiasco is the nail in the coffin for me. Never will I buy my cpu, which is supposed to be reliant on longevity and reliability, from a corp like intel that can’t even be transparent about their own manufacturing defects.
@@黃鈺倫-t6d I don’t think they’ll recover anytime this decade. They seem like they’re in a deep hole they can’t get out of.
@@Viper4ever05 well said.
AMD's insane power efficiency makes me not care that my 7800X3D is moderatley slower than a Intel Core i9 14900K when it does the same workload fully competently at consistently 85% less power draw then Intel. Also I have a dead Intel Core i9 14900K in a befitting trash bag, undervolting and underclocking did absolutely nothing to stop its oxidation and degregation.
The 6 GHZ marketing campaign, FAILED to inform its consumers of the need for NVIDIA RTX 5090 priced (no joke) EKG Quantum DELTA TEC 2 Custom Loop Water Cooling to remotely have a chance at stability at those 6 GHZ or higher clock speeds. 9800X3D and 7800X3D run cool and efficient with a simple air cooler. Apply a EKG Quantum DELTA TEC 2 Custom Loop Water Cooling, proper delid and direct to die the 9800X3D or 7800X3D and AMD is with or without this tweaking in another league in gaming.
BTW a 14900KS with 8000 MHZ RAM and more than 6 GHZ all core still gets smoked by the 9800X3D in most games, without several months of tuning and again, an RTX 5090 priced premium cooling solution plus months of tweaking in the BIOS. I love BIOS tweaking, but even for people like this, AMD is the better current choice.
I hope Intel's next CEO can turn the company around. BattleMage is exciting.
Back then I rather bought i5 8600K as 1st and 2nd gen Ryzens were not that good in single thread performance. This was addressed in 3rd gen Ryzen and now AMD's performance is mostly even better while remaining power efficient. So yeah, my next CPU will be AMD.
I've had two 13900Ks die on me, I think the first was the oxidation issue due to the timing but second was definitely due to degradation as the memory controller was failing as well. I downgraded to a 12900KS because it was cheap; 12th gen didn't appear to have the same issues and didn't have to change the board.
Sorry to hear that
been running a 14700k with cpu frame, 7400 DDR5 for a whole year with zero issues and everyone i know on 13700k or 13900k has no problems either. You're just terribly unlucky
@@synqFPS lmao no, you are terribly lucky instead. Intel's issues are real, their stock price will let you know 🤣🤣
Because 12th gen was not a factory overclocked bs like 13th and 14th.
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat thats cuz people plug and play on intel running shit at 1.45v on stock playing games at 100c
skill issue
Initially I thought you were ragging on the i7 but I'm glad you emphasized its use for video work. Being a video editor myself I've built a monster rig with 80TBs of HDD storage, 128GB DDR4, 3080 ti and the 13700K in the midst of all that has pumped out hour long TED talk style videos (With motion graphics mind you) SEAMLESSLY for the past 18 months!
@bujfvjg7222 stage talks my guy. TED talk style videos with motion graphics.
@bujfvjg7222wtf does any of what you said mean
I am glad someone finally talked about the wattage. I have to pay that power bill each month. 200-300 watts is crazy. This would have been considered experimental a few years ago. Keep up the good work.
The original comment will not be known to you anymore muahaha
Yeah that $150 difference in price is so "equivalent" cmon man. If you compare CPUs compare the prices.
7800x3D = over $450 USD. 13700k = $320 USD.
@@Mr.Genesis yeah now it is, but a month or 2 ago it was at ~$340
@@xTRTSCx So at the time of this video being posted (Today) the information i provided is more accurate. 😅
At $450 now which the 13700k has never been.
@@Mr.Genesis7800X3D only costs that much because AMD stopped making new ones in prep for 9800X3D, and the ones that were left in stock are currently getting scalped to hell and back. The irony is that it wouldn't cost nearly as much if Intel actually had a decent alternative to offer.
Hey Vex
I used to hate your video being click baity with stupid thumbnails and kind of low effort bc most of the time you were iust reacting to tech news and others benchmarks.
But this video quality and testing is actually really good. And the coverage is all round. Good job dude👍
Intel has been having these problems for years. I bought a new Intel CPU about 4 years ago and had it cooking in my tower, send it back to Intel, and they sent me a replacement. The replacement was still overheating, but it wasn't a game-ender and I couldn't afford to shut my PC down again for a month and a half for a second replacement.
The most annoying part about it was Intel not taking my word for it that it was overheating out the arse. They required me to hit up a service shop, then when said shop referred that it was overheating they screwed them around til they filed paperwork *just right,* which drove the owner of the small repair shop bonkers and almost made them refund me just to not have to deal with it. The only reason the owner stuck it out and fought/advocated for me was because, in their words, "It's not right. 20% of Intel CPUs are overheating like this. They need to be held accountable."
I don't want to try to pin the cause on one thing, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the entire production went tits up when they went in hard with their DEI initiatives. The start of the cooking CPUs was just after they started pushing out their talent and started racist practices.
Do you believe AMD doesn't have DEI programs?
Dude DEI has nothing to do with it. There was an issue with some of the coding where it wouldn’t apply the right voltage. That’s not even counting the fact that CPU chips are getting more powerful and when you cram a lot of transistors in a small area, things get very hot, very fast. CPUs are sensitive and anything wrong with how it communicates, how much voltage it gets, etc, can make it malfunction. AMDs new release of CPUs had issues in late 2024. We are close reaching the physical limits of what silicon can do, which is why we’re seeing less and less gains year after year of what silicon based chips can do.
@@timdoesstuff9305Taiwan has no DEI.
@@lesterchua2677 you're wrong. But even if that was the case, AMD is an American company. Not that DEI has anything to do with the hardships Intel is facing. As @m3gami_ has already stated.
@@lesterchua2677 you're wrong. But even if that was the case, AMD is an American company.
As @m3gami_ stated there's physical problems that attribute to Intel's woes as well as trying to be a competitive fabricator and CPU and GPU design house. Their capital is spread more thin in R&D than AMD who is fabless. Bringing up DEI in this case (and in most cases) is a lazy argument.
1:55 - ""Intel Inside" is now a warning" 🤣🤣🤣
Haha funny, cleaver
More like "Idiots Inside".
@@taiwanluthiersi dont get joke. is it cuz intel is short for intelligence?
@@taiwanluthiersIntel pre 13/14 gen where good tho
@@kowaihanayuh
1:33 props to the employee at microcenter being honest to the consumer. Instead of just letting another uninformed customer clearing their dead inventory.
This means that Microcenter staff really treat their customers right and prioritise educating their customer to make the best value choice for their PCs.
How is being and AMD shill "being honest"? You can clearly see in this video that the intel does well in games and does much better in other aplications.
@@metallboy25AMD shill? So all these years, what was it with intel? Also, everyone knows x3d chips are not meant to be good at productivity, they are worse than their non x3d amd chips due to their lower clockspeed.
@@metallboy25 If anyone's a shill, it's you. There's a reason why Intel has been in the news a lot this year, and it wasn't for creating the best CPUs.
Intel is power inefficient, their 13th and 14th generation CPUs were unreliable, they produce so much heat, and when they tried to fix it with their new generation, they saw regression in games.
Oh, and X3D CPUs aren't for productivity work, something like the 9950X or 7950X are more catered to productivity, where they use less power than Intel for comparable or greater performance.
Believe me, I would love for Intel to be trading blows with AMD, same with AMD and Intel trading blows with Nvidia in the GPU market. Competition creates innovation, but Intel still rides on the coattails of it's previous dominance over AMD.
@@metallboy25 Oh, looks like Iv'e spotted a userbenchmark diehard fan or maybe their writer?
@@metallboy25 That's all fun and games until it starts causing bsod and other errors.
The shop I was working at decided to stop selling pre-assembled machines with AMD.
They then had to deal with LOTS of bad intel CPU, returns and unhappy customers.
They're now closed.
insane
The number one reason is not the performance in isolation, but the performance per watt.
I'm already undervolting and underclocking both my CPU and GPU to survive summers without needing to use my aircon.
100% Agree with everything else but note that overall efficiency is very important for some of us.
Appreciate the work you did on this, very well put together and your points came across as very fair, you also addressed just about every strength and weakness of both AMD and Intel CPUs in general, was a joy to listen/watch.
With this video you are hitting far beyond your subscriber/view count in quality and just simple constructive reasoning with some great evidence to back up your claims :-)
Also loved the unbiased nature of this video and would love to see more of it since fanboying over one company is just about always a bad thing and kills innovation within this space etc.
Yes. This. People that recommend me to prefer Intel must be living near the Arctic. They must be having no idea what it feels like living in a hot and humid tropical area without air conditioning. 150W heater is good enough to make a small bedroom like a sauna, let alone having a 600W PC...
Yep. Thats why I dont buy AMD GPUs.
"I'm already undervolting and underclocking both my CPU and GPU"... I think maybe you should just buy a Nintendo Switch tbh
@@AJsWorld (XD) interesting that you went with ntendo switch.
I had a 5900hx/3070 Asus G17 laptop that I absolutely adored to bits, though for my needs, one who isn't mobile regarding gaming needs desktop simply made more sense eventually, but I still miss the efficiency I got from it where I would disable my 3070 in older games like SWTOR and might & magic which I was playing at the time and simply play with the onboard vega gpu basically gamming at 50-70watts in total.
Anyway in the end overall experience on desktop is simply superior since I'm not dealing with optimus, low vram and some annoying cpu bottlenecking experience anymore.
You AMD fanboys talk about electricity like it was liquid gold, a few watts here a few watts there most of the appliances in your house need many hundreds if not thousands of watts 🤣
Why do I use AMD CPU's? Between the 65 watts my R7 7700 and 220 watts my RTX 4070 Super pull, I need a space heater to keep my PC warm.
i love my 4070 super, undervolted and 120fps limit shes basically a 100w card haha.
@@ConnorH2111”She”, I don’t want to know what other things you do with your GPU.
@@Simon_Denmark why are you being weird?
@@thewtfverse9763 It’s called a joke, sorry I forgot that there’s always someone like you that takes everything seriously.
I live in a very hot climate and have an i5-13600k and 7900xt cooling cost me 3 cheap pwm fans and a 100$ AIO (this is plus taxes and vat). I torture it for an hour on cinebench the hottest core doesn't cross 84C. I think you chucklenuts just don't know know how power works.
I have an i7-13700. Has the firmware patch. Never had any issues with it. I also replaced the socket with an aftermarket bracket so it doesn't bend. No reason for me to buy AMD for me. But most likely this will likely be my last Intel CPU. Next build will be AMD.
You can't say temp. is 14% lower. If temp was +2'C and now it is +1'C, it does not mean it is 2 times or 50% colder. This is common scientific, logical error. And it depends if you use 'C or F - then you would get even lower % differences.
You are correct, but most people don't understand.
OK Lord Kelvin
@@1pcfred Lord Kelvin RULES.
Elaborate
@@Raderade1-pt3om Basically, temps are a made up scale of numbers, unlike regular numbers where 2 is the double of 1. 0'C is not the point in which there is no heat, it's just the point at which water freezes at sea level air pressure, more of a reference point than a zero. Consider 0'C an unknown value instead of 0, like "x", since it is a temperature where heat is still present. In that case, 1'C is x+1'C and 2'C is x+2'C, and you can't assume one of them is the double of another. Measuring temperature by Kelvin is more accurate in that regard, since its 0 point (0 K) actually is the point in which there is 0 heat, also known as Absolute Zero. That's why you see the other comments joking around saying "Lord Kelvin".
12th gen was really good in my opinion. Got a 12600k for 285$ 3 months after launch, paired it on a cheap Z ddr4 mobo and off to the races. I limited the tdp to 125W and it turned into a really efficient CPU for multithread workloads. Adding UV got me down to 95W, with a total 7% loss in performance but -45% reduction in power draw (-110mV, got lucky there!).
Really good gen, but was already pushed a bit too high, then Intel shot themselves in the foot with 13th and 14th gen
yup, i have a dozen 12th gen sku for me and the family, they work fine, they are on discount at Microcenter, you can get an i7K sometimes for less than 200
ya i have a 12th gen 12700f runs good with lots of hours on it
12600k is a great chip, I got mine used for a good price.
Put a cheap ex crypto mining 3060ti in and some ddr5 ram and am happy with it.
Bought a 12600kf on black Friday 2023 for $148 USD. Price to performance is great! Paired it with a 6800 non xt that I got for $380.
14th was the final nail in the coffin for that foot I guess.
Like those who remember the ol' days when Athlon & Phenom were comparatively cheaper but were heating more
Windows 24h2 runs so bad on core ultra 200 series that it makes it seem like windows hates intel
Ultra Performance in Windows 11 will or has killed most of the processors in question.
😂😂😂😂
Microsoft and their sloppy code is the bottleneck nowadays
23h2 intel still loses to ryzen 7000. Hardware unboxed tested on 23h2.
@@Riyozsu yeah I know I just wanted to state that windows isn't siding with anyone so assuming that windows prefers intel is a misinterpretation!
Missed the poll, but ye - I'm on intel 12400 on pair with 3060ti and gaming 1440p. Pretty much happy with my 2.5yo build
i love my 12700K
I personally helped building 2 PCs this year. One with a 12100 and another with a 12400. They both were very good for how little they cost and been running without issues until this day. Ryzen 7000 is good but the mobo cost is atrocious, so it's quite a lot harder to build on a tight budget, at least for now.
That's my rig!
12th gen was awesome, except for the ILM.
Yeah that 12400 is a great chip, I have two boxes running them and never felt any need to "upgrade" to 13th/14th gen.
@@MoultrieGeek we dont need more as long our games run smooth f*** 30 fps here and there
I got an i7 14700K with an AsRock Riptide motherboard absolutely zero issues. Paired it with an RTX 4070 Ti and it's been a great experience no issues. I used to have an i9 14900KS paired with a low tier msi motherboard but the problem was that I didn't know any better at the time and very poor financial decisions were made. Crashing was my PC's second nature back then. Glad the changes were exactly what I needed.
One major problem I have with Intel is ethical. They're so fucking scummy as a company
Let me add to the comments at 0:11 - Upgraded from a 10980XE to a 9950x on x670. Best choice I could've made with my 3090 at 4K 120Hz.
I am building 7950x3d is it good
@ The 7950x3D is/was pretty good, but you'd be better off getting a 9800X3D if you just game, it outperforms pretty much everything else on the market right now. I have use for 16 cores, so its worth it. For gaming,, 7800x3D/9800x3D.
@ReallySadProfessor I'm thinking about a 9950x3D build but intel supposedly cut the price of xeons and my needs are for video rendering not gaming so I am considering a xeon workstation but I haven't yet seen the price drop only news. I'm even considering a new amd build and a project to create a 56 core 2nd gen xeon instead. I'm bumping footage up to prores 4444 and avid DNxHR 4444 uncompressed for DaVinci. The 10G ethernet will give me at least thunderbolt but I would rather rather get a higher core count and 32 core threadripper might cost more than new xeon prices. I even considered getting a used 2066 just like yours but 48 to 56 cores will be excellent for rendering while I can still work. I would need a second machine dedicated to rendering a day's shoot. I expect the 9950x3D to also give me great performance on war thunder but plat 1 game a day. I can get away with an old build with two 8gb gpus for gaming so it's not my priority.
My budget is 3200 before monitors. So I was going to get the AMD first and make my project over time looking for deals. I can build a 40 core for $600 with a Dell t7920 so that's on the table because I can get 1300w psu. So you can see how I'm thinking. The Dell can be my conversion rig.
my 12700kf/4070 combo works great on linux with a corsair AIO watercooler. i get max 46 degrees Celsius. also cpu frequency scaling is a great way to limit power draw
but yeah amd is doing better overall these days i admit.
I have a 13600k with a be quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler since April 2023 and haven't had any issues. Also installed the latest microcode bios updated on my Z790 TUF board and still going strong.
Thats the thing a lot of people arent updating the microcode haha, I had a EVGA Kingpin Z690 sitting around I wanted to use so I waited until EVGA released the 0x29 microcode. They released it 2 weeks ago which is when I bought my 13600k. Temps are great, Overclock temps are great, wattage is even good. It's a great cpu to pair with my 3090.
Yeah, I'm at my PC all day so I tend to check for a new BIOS almost every day and I needed to undervolt because I have a Hyper 212 for cooling lol. So I was already preventing problems that I didn't know could happen.
@@bruwy7370 updating a motherboard bios isn't hard, but I know a lot of normal people would never do that.
been about the same for me i have a 14700k but never had any issues and iv had it for months now
Have 13700kf have on 5.5ghz on all cores and run super from day one.
This is a great video. Earned mu sub with this one.
I bought my 13700K in the Fall of 2022, and I ran it in a gaming PC with e 6800XT, then a 7900XTX, with a 280mm AIO, for an average of about an hour per day. I used the default power settings of my Z670 Taichi motherboard, and I have had zero issues. Still, when all the stability issues hit the fore, I took it out of service. I'm about to install the latest 0x12b microcode and start using it again -- for production. I can do that because I have a 7800X3D system ready to assemble -- for gaming. My next faster CPU for production is a 3900X, or maybe it's my 5700X. The 13700K smokes them both. Here's hoping it doesn't smoke itself as well.
I think only the 13900k*'s and 14900k*'s had problems. You are perfevtly fine with the 13700 series.
@@ContraVsGigi By the reports I've seen, plenty of Alder Lake i7s have had these issues as well. My example has had an easy life, only gaming at 4K.
1h a day that's rookie numbers my guy, barely used that thing
@@HellGatefr2 Well, life.
13 and 14700s are also affected, just less of them. Even some 600s have been affected but the percentage is very small.
If you're just gaming, x3d is a no brainer. But if you do a lot of stuff with your CPU the 13700k is a very good value. It is inefficient at full load, but it uses a lot less power than AMD at idle/light loads which most people spend a lot of time in (eg. browsing web, writing documents, watching videos, etc etc) even in most gaming at 2k/4k where you're gpu bound, it's not any more power hungry than amd... Also intel generally has a lot more headroom for undervolting so you can actually cut a ton of wattage at full load with no performance loss (still not as efficient at full load as amd though).
I'm on a 12700k and it's absolutely fine, it hardly ever gets hot, it's very reliable and it's somewhat quick and it was dirt cheap.
What's your cooling solution and what are the temperatures? I'd like to run a dirt cheap air cooler with a dirt cheap CPU.
@@toncica Noctua U12A is enough for the 12700K but kinda noisy on Cinebench. If you want a quiet PC on Cinebench, Corsair 5000D Airflow and Noctua D15 as a top notch air cooled combo. The thermal paste is irrelevant (basically MX4).
Is the most power efficent and powerful i7 that can be easily aircooled, check motherboard settings.
Intel motherboards for some reason use overclocking settings at "stock", my 12700K was running hot at 220 watts and 90°C, dropped the voltage to sane levels (1.2-1.3) and now almost matched Gamer's Nexus 's max power levels and 67°C. Must be a bugged BIOS.
Pretty good cpu
@@TiGeRoof Extremely underrated and overlooked nowadays. Everyone praised it at launched.
I'm using 12900f, with BeQuiet Silent loops, max at 65 ish degrees but it eats electric bill
You will never know what the original comment was muahaha.
AMD is even worse.
@@cuzr702 How? AMD CPUs are generally much more efficient.
@@cuzr702 in which way?
Are you some kind of bot? I saw your comment twice in a row, and just 4 hours apart, I mean, who comments 4 HOURS after the first comment??
@@100organicfreshmemes5 AMD is more efficient when fully loaded but loses at idle due to its chiplet design. But thats all I can think of.
i have the i7 12700KF, no issues whatsoever, runs perfectly fine
11:38 From what I’ve read, Nvidia makes graphics cards for a tenth of the price of what they are sold at. They don’t care how affordable they are. They will pump as much as they can out of your wallet. To a point I agree, however they could give a far better product than what they’ve given and at a lower price and still make a good profit. They don’t care though, as long as they can still stay the highest performance and then charge harshly for it. I’m not sure what kind of profit margins a company needs in that industry. But making a graphics card for 35 bucks and then selling it for 350, there has to be a better deal they could give and still have great profits.
Shareholders… you are expected to constantly grow, always make MORE. Greed and stock prices and quarterly returns are ruining the industry.
There's also the problem that any consumer GPU is competing with corporate GPU for manufacturing allocation.
Nvidia doesn’t make graphics cards so you can just disregard this clown.
If you don't like it then make your own GPU.
It's the good old Apple way
For "Eco mode" on Intel you can set up a Power limit in a bios to any number of watts. All intel motherboards have this option. Gigabyte has 6 power limit options you just need to enter the same number to all of them.
@@Anderson_LS that is true, although I do agree with Vex that a "eco mode button" would be nice, that could be found in the Easy bios, easily accessible for all users.
Eco mode doesn't stop the degrading problems though as the voltage still hits 1.5V+ as a single core tries to boost to 6ghz.
its eco mode by default, it has ecores
@@iikatinggangsengii2471 😂😂
This. I tried a 125 W Limit with my 13900K and the performance was still really good.
I have a Ryzen 9 5950X with a cheap air cooler and it's an absolute beast for HandBrake encoding.
11:07 finally someone said it.
Above 1080p its a margin of error between CPUs.
Lol, that's not how it works. CPU matters just as much at 4k, you're just wayyy more likely to be bottlenecked by your GPU.
When I saw all these reported issues with 13th & 14th gen I thought to myself I guess I'm the luckiest intel user around, I bought my i9-13900K in late 2022 and never had any stability issues lol (Also quicksync and thunderbolt is no joke I do love these features on intel, my i9 paired with the 7900 XTX is like the perfect combo)
You aren't lucky, there is just a ton of bad hype from people that don't own them. I'm pretty happy with my 13900kf as well. It doesn't have quicksync but I don't use it.
Also got the 13700kf paired with 7900 xtx since early 2023 and indeed its a strong combo.
Same with my 14700k, no issues and performs very well. Gets better 0.1% lows than the 7800x3d in a lot of the games I play too. As high end systems all get great max FPS, it's the lows that matter to me most.
@@rluker5344 Well, it is a fact that Intel 13 and 14 are generally more prone to degradation than other generations. Several companies are switching to AMD and press outlets like Hardware Unboxed, Gamers Nexus, Level1Tech, etc have reported this. Even a gaming company called Alderon Games found that virtually all of their Intel-based machines were failing and affecting the performance of servers in the Path of Titans game (of course, a normal consumer PC is one thing, a server with other servers running 24/7 is quite another).
As a techno bro hoping to get a good PC by the early next year to work as a Systems Engineer focused on programming, I am not going to go for Intel because I am really afraid that I will be unlucky and my CPU will be very prone to degradation. Yes, microcode, BIOS and firmware updates should prevent degradation in new CPUs but *I already lost confidence in the brand.*
Yea I've never actually personally known anyone with issues, only ever read about them online which makes me suspicious
My 14900K and 285K machines are phenomenal performers. 240mm AIO on each with no cooling issues. I'm so glad I make my own decisions after looking at the data instead of listening to unimformed opinions.
At my local Microcenter in Brooklyn the AMD cpu section is always full of people while the Intel section is pretty barren. That is what happens when stock buybacks and paying dividends are more important to you than reinvesting in your core business is.
I just had a technician come and replace my i7 14900F for the 2nd time. Overheated today, called tech support. Now I have to mail in my alienware aurora r16 to be "fixed" by engineers. Cost me 1500$ and all I got was a proprietary space heater. Feel pretty defeated. Can't edit videos. YT is in the toilet.
that sounds more like the terrible alienware case design rearing it's ugly head. I have never seen my 13700k hit above 85C even with a full 250W load, partially cause I got lucky and am stable at -170mV partially cause I have good airflow in my case.
Can they change the board to an AMD system?
@damienlobb85 not after purchase
@bujfvjg7222 that's a different matter
Replaced for the 2nd time? Ooof.
Good job, Vex.
My previous 13600K and now 14700K are fine.
No problems. Will skip Arrow Lake.
I’ve bought this exact CPU a few months after its launch, in january 2023. My decision prioritized productivity instead of gaming (which I honestly rarely do anymore). So far so good. This thing is snappy and still as blazingly fast as it was back then when I turned on the pc for the first time. Luckily, I didn’t experienced yet any of the issues that some costumers lately have been reporting with intel CPUs.
That being said, one should keep in mind that these Raptor Lake do run quite hot under heavier loads, getting way hotter much faster than any other CPU I’ve used before. It does demand a robust cooling system to perform without throttling and to avoid physical damage due to the heat. Personally I’m using a 360mm AIO from Lian Li and it’s been holding itself pretty well at the task. I think changing the original CPU frame is a good idea too, as it may help to prevent the CPU from bending as well as to better dissipate the heat it produces.
The problem with heat isn't just physical damage to the CPU...
It also heats up your room to unbearable levels in the summer and your wife divorces you when she sees the electricity bill.
@@Nayah9 Lol. That’s true as well.
You can cool even a 13900k for less than $45 without throttling.
1. Get a $8 contact frame
2. Get a $35 thermalright phantom spirit
This setup can compete with aios and can tame that beast.
reason for installing aio is to dump the heat out, if we have the system encased in a box
Amazing review. So much details, so much work. Amazing. Editing skills are also top notch. I was rocking intel for years and noticed a weird problem with RAM after around a year, I couldn't run XMP anymore. And was generating more heat , crazy.
Guys, he forgot that the quick sync video has worse compression (quality) than the libx265 and hevc_nvenc, even in max compression level the other two smash quick sync (the only good reason i see to use quick sync is using it with obs cause, for some reason, obs retain good quality even in the fastest preset, and you won't kill 10% of your gpu for encoding)
But in ffmpeg, sadly, the nvenc beats the others (althought the libx265 gives ±1/2 file size from the hevc_nvenc but, i bet you put your 13700k to compress a video in slow preset and tell it's fast (experience from a 9750h + 2060))
Edit 999: all the experience said up there was using -cq (constant quality) and -cq sucks in quick sync, you'll have to go with -b:v (bit rate video) if you want good results (didn't test crf in quick sync cuz cq is better in other codecs)
Got a 13600K and it runs everything great. "No one wants Intel" is definitely not true.
Ran an FX 8350, then upgraded to a 6700K on release. The difference was just incredible, even if the 8350 still wasn't "bad" at that time, still true 8 core compared to intel.
This made me think the 13th gen intel was still the better choice.
Shopped around, and the 13600K was the better value. Cheaper, while providing similar or better performance than AMD's offerings at even 15% higher price.
13600K on a pretty mid tier MOBO, running a Noctua U14s (single tower air cooler) gets great temps, runs quiet and stable. I have had zero issues with it.
Then I had to help my neighbour with his amd 5800x that had major overheating issues, even with a 240 AIO or twin tower air cooler. A bios update fixed it. That felt a little sketchy.
With that said, if I where to buy a new PC today, I would go 7xxx or 9xxx series AMD. But 13th gen wasn't bad, unless you looked at the i9...
FX8350 to 6700k was quite a jump back in the day…. But fx8350 was never a true 8 core, just marketing.
It's literally just group think form the vocal minority. People just want to confirm their biases. There's obvious discussion to be had on legit hardware issues. It's fair to say that the issues with voltage on intel should scare joe normie - but it feels like this area of tech tube is the semi-informed normie. They act like a low level it suits them, and act informed when it suits them.
Why someone like Frame chasers can identify the massive voltage spikes on boost cores causing the degradation, while everyone else with a semi large platform faffs about?
Yeah, 14900k without issues here. Kinda annoying to see most tech tubers get on the hate train, it was annoying when they were on the Intel train for a loooong time and now it's annoying they are on the AMD train.
Stop getting on trains.
(my second system is AMD and i have an AMD laptop, in before any bias comments)
@@Greez1337 Yeah, the voltage degradation is a huge issue for sure, but it's not like Intel isn't replacing chips or addressing it. AMD had a similar problem with their chips a long time ago, and they had to do the same thing.
It's just funny hearing people say "Intel is dead!" just because their top chips can't provide 1% performance gains over their rivals when the majority of gamers won't ever notice the difference.
I've had a 13700k for a really long time now, like multiple years now. And, I haven't noticed any type of frame drops or performance decreases. Stock motherboard settings too.
But a random guy on YT says otherwise!
39:45 oh, believe me, BIOS updates are scary. The last update I installed caused my PC to go into 15 minute coma.
Same, so fucking annoying.
Well, I've tried unplugging power mid gigabyte bios update and it just goes back to the previous bios you where using on its own. Its impossible to brick the board no matter what stage of the bios update you unplug power, early mid or late, same outcome.
Heats my room in winter and plays games, win win.
Until summer rolls around...
He like sweating in summer... 😂😂😂@@Globodyne
you do know that a 7800x3d runs hotter than a 13900-14900k in games? lol, the irony of talking when you dont know what you're on about.
you are paying for electricity so...Not a win win...
@@AGENTEN-ry6lr tests say otherwise 🤣
Love my 13700k. Still no issues 2 years on.
Just got 13700k myself. Runs at 70 degrees, pulls 77 watts sim racing on 1440p triples. Just takes 5 minute undervolt.
$250. 5 year warranty. Gaming performance on par with 7800xd and completely DEDTROYS it in everything else.
Keep trashing them please. Can’t wait to pick up a new 14900k for $250 lol.
exactly... the internet give all the clueless cumbubblers a platform to talk loud from their moms basement. i totally love my 13700.
*just take five minute undervolt", the cope is hard XD
@@DrMicoco AMD is only better in performance performance watt.
They perform around the same but intel uses double the power in some cases.
And rhe microcode patch it out and has been for some time so the cpu dont kill itself.
And what you amd fans dont get is that intel falling behind means the amd has no competition and there for can charge more money per chip if they want.
Some amd cpus blow up too, even breaking the cpu socket also. They also have problems.
How did you undercolt to get the 77watts? Thats amazing. I'm interested.
@mikkelgraff6879 "Some amd cpus blow up too, even breaking the cpu socket also", yep, on one manufacturer, with few cpus and only needed a mb bios update to fix. There is a difference between a faulty mb setting to a basic architectural cpu issue.
I got i7 12700kf recently, those are great right now for around 180$
Same, the last Intel CPU worth buying in my opinion. 13 and 14 gen are cooked lol.
K version is better than KF, that iGPU is the real deal.
Swap my i5 11400 and 2060 super for a 12700 non K, getting my 4070 super in 2 days working fine for me
me too its pefect 12700k goat
@@nivea878 The best i7 ever created.
I never even knew about the issues until i saw a few videos like this. I got a open box 13700k from microcenter about 2 years ago for $300. I do as i always do, and immediately tweak the vcore to lessen the power draw and heat. Havent had a single problem since. But i get that im a "power user". I am just the kind of person that has to know how and why things work, or i wont own it. I also upgraded to a contact frame, but got zero improvement. Im still on the original bios from 2 years ago as well. If it aint broke, dont mess with it.
Infact ive always hated that every cpu has a voltage set from the factory way too high. All for the problem of probably very few cpus that actually need it that high to run stock.
Probably someone already commented this but the reason older F7 bios (with letters) were removed is because they were beta bios versions. It's a gigabyte weird naming scheme.. So basically F1, F2 etc. is a normal "release" version while F6b, F7f etc. is a beta.
What's up with the 7800X3D anyways? Are they discontinuing it all together or just artificially creating panic to make people buy the 9800X3D at launch? I see it's still about $280 on AliExpress but no idea how smart it is to order it from there
Also retailers need to raise the prices to show a cut at black friday.
the mediocre reviews on the 9700X in regards to gaming really made 7800X3D go up in price again lol.
Scalpers bro. They gonna flood the market later when New GPU and CPU launches around January. Happened last year too with other CPUs.
Black friday scam again, raising prices so that they can nickel and dime unsuspecting shoppers and during the black friday sales, they're going to do "deep" discounts
They've stopped production of them, yes. 5800X3D too, but at least there's 5700X3D there.
I have an I9-13900k and I don't have that much trouble keeping it cool.
By the way the 13th and 14th gen i5, namely the 13600K and 14600K, have been insane value. They have what should be i7-level performance, and go head to head with the Ryzen 7 (non-X3D), not Ryzen 5. They also don't heat up as much and have not been reported as suffering the fates of their higher-tier siblings.
Thank god. I bought the 13600kf at $175 because it was a great deal. I was aware of the fact I probably need to undervolt it with my okay ish air cooler. Hopefully it survives for years to come.
Very happy with my 14600K. I will not be drinking the Kool-Aid today.
@@penumbral_psithurism fully maxing games at 200fps with 14700kf and 4070ti super. No issues here.
@@joshsprinkles1282 yeah just wait till they degrade the ring/IO and you'll enjoy tracking down why crashes happen.
A built a new PC this which is not something i do often like every 5-10 years and upgrade my GPU every 3-5 years depending on if i need to, after a ton of research i picked the i5-13600k and was quite happy with it. The temps under load with a air cooler was kind of crazy but i was happy enough then the intel stability issues started i was running my I5 with a 300mhz overlock via Microsoft's own auto overclock software. The next couple months sucked i ended up having only a few crashes from a VRAM error message and my CPU was sucking down more watts then it was when it was built barely a few months before. So after scrambling around and being generally destressed about the issue i managed to convince amazon to take my CPU and MOBO back for a 20% restocking fee, and then went to a opening day microcenter in Miami and got a 7800x3d for 314 and a b650 MAG tomahawk for 167 i ended up spending a little over 40 bucks to switch to AM5 and consider my self very damn lucky.
And when you consider the reviews for Arrow Lake intel has not learned a damn thing.
Also personal note from using a i5-13600k and a 7800x3d the temps in use aren't to different for me the idle for the I5 was lower but the in use was higher then the 7800x3d BUT the i5 felt like it was pushing way more head out of my case then then 7800x3d which i guess is the higher power draw? no idea.
Bottom line for me was spending half a grand on my cpu/mobo combo and having it start to fail within in a few months is ridicules. Also the 2nd hard market for all 13/14th gen CPUs is basically going to be gambling how many damaged CPUS are in the wild now? who's going to want to buy one??
25:47 U realize you can set power limits on intel cpus aswell?
Set it to whatever u desire 50 watts if that is what u want.
My 12100f going CRAZY. Okey no joke i am amazed how good this cpu is for 65w and the price xD
9600x looking at this comment: 😐
I can't believe intel is dropping their best value CPU for best performance i LOVE the i3. They're the little engines that could.
@@Darojar09600x:300$
12100f:90$
You:🤡
I used to rock a Ryzen 1700, and I still can't wrap my head around how a 4 core 12100f is about as fast in multi core workloads and completely obliterates the zen 1 cpu in games.
You put that into a Riptide B760M board and with BLCK OC it will perform like a 12900ks in games.
13900K @ 5.9Ghz, 8000Mhz RAM (or secondary profile of 6800Mhz, 1T, Gear 2 mode) as a gaming + workstation PC has been an absolute blast.
Oddly enough in Battlefield 2042 I get more FPS than my friend with a 7800X3D. We both have RTX 4080 GPU's.
Your friend needs to optimize his PC. Also enjoy your "win" as the CPU will crap out (hope you have a way to RMA it).
@@yonghominale8884 Optimize in what way? He's running an undervolt + XMP or whatever the AMD equivalent is.
And I won't have any degrading :)
Not all games benefit from the 3D cache.
@@griffin1366 Tell him to stop undervoting and his pc will smoke yours.
@@yonghominale8884lil bro is pissed his all so great amd cpu is losing to intel
@@hamza.991in wonderland 😅
20:54 he hasnt mentioned anywhere whether the liquid cooling test was left to run for an hour so it could reach equilibrium. If it was, the CPU temps would be very similar. In the end the only difference is achieved by increasing the air interface surface area and starting with lower temperature air, if cfm is the same. Water cooling is not better, it is actually slightly less efficient from a surface area pov. It just has more total surface area than an air cooler.
In short: if you want actual better cooling with a sustained load, make sure you have a significant amount more radiator volume than the current wisdom holds. Three 240mm fans worth for starters.
I would gladly pay the extra $40 for the AMD and avoid the Intel problems.
it's an extra $170 aud here, the price point between the two chosen cpus isn't as close as he suggested
I'm not excusing intel's incompetence, but man.. Yall perpetuate internet hysteria like crazy.
Meanwhile an AM5 MB costs over $200, 16GB of DDR5 $100, and the cheapest AM5 CPU? over $200.
I'm buying a 12700k, MB, and 16GB DDR4 for $300. Why is AM5 still an overpriced platform?
I guess because it is not destroying itself like Intel counterpart?
@@kaputinkaputin i guess you missed the AMD CPUs exploding last year. Which Gamers Nexus proved Multiple times. the overwhelming majority of LGA 1700 intel owners have no problems. You're part of the hysteria.
Well, comparing cost of used Intel system to new AMD system ain't really a fair game, is it? 12700K costs ~220 USD, 16GB of good DDR4 costs ~50 bucks and you are not getting a good board that can actually sustain 12700K performance for $100 or less. The good boards start at around 150, and often go for $200 as well. So the difference is not anywhere as crazy as you portray it
@@Mr.Genesis sure it's because of AMD and not because of ASUS forcing insane VSOC settings?
Plus. on top of that, you have to factor in the cooling. AMD can be cooled by the cheapest coolers. I've run 16 core parts under $10 coolers without problems or performance loss. Good luck cooling 12700K with a cheap cooler
I got a laptop as a gift with an i9 intel and nvidia 4080. Will it be ok or should i be concerned?
My PC is mainly for gaming but I do other things from time to time.
I live in a basement suite in a house surrounded by trees so its always cool-cold. During the winter my PC literally is my space heater as I do not control the furnace. Its my GPU doing the heating though!
I've been lucky over the decades as to hardware failures, or lack there of. I run stability tests on this thing fairly frequently & it looks like I dodged the bullet yet again as to the microcode, so far.
Electricity is dirt cheap here so I dont much care about the power draw.
Having said that I'll probably go 9950X3D next build. I hear its a monster.
9950X3D almost certainly will need to hit 5.90 GHZ to 6 GHZ or higher all core, because it will NOT have Dual CCD 3D-VCache.
I have a 14900k, and a noctua dh15 cooler with 2 fans, with all the bios updates and fixes the 14900k never goes beyond 88c when stress testing.
yeah im not gonna lie i was defending intel but i bought a brand new intel i5-12600k and its giving me a lot of issues random pc freezes like unrecoverable pc freezes it doesnt even blue screen i know its the cpu because i had a 12100 in there before and it was fine and i checked again when i bought a new cooler it doesnt have bent pins i have a 750 watt evga psu and it does its job but randomly i feel like my gpu just doesnt know when to work? i know its not my gpu because i have 3 and it did the problem with all of them so im seriously considering going all amd and possibly in the future a intel gpu but id rather go amd rn because of its prices to performance
If you want a cheap system now the 13700K, 12900k, 12700k, 13600k, and 12600k are great option. Especially if you are a small content creator
The 12700K is the GOAT i7.
The Price is INSANE. An i7 12th gen processor for $250. It's amazing.
The 12th gen yes. I would not risk it with 13th and 14th gen.
@@oxaile4021 Although I actually use i7 14700HX processor. It's not affected by the instability issue.
The thing is when you were comparing the I7 13700K VS the R7 7800x3D the Intel CPU had much less usage in all scenarios
More cores - less usage, cause those E-cores are not needed for gaming.
Wow. Click bait title much?
How did you manage to stretch this crap out to 47 minutes, without barely saying anything.
I'm using Nvidia and Intel, simply because of software compatibility/efficiency for certain design applications.
But when you're using the PC only for gaming, you should get AMD for both the GPU and CPU...
"Snappy" is how I describe any cpu paired with a fresh windows install.
Even with bloat these i7s are extremely fast and definetly is the core count and clockspeed, the IPC is very high.
The 7800X3D is simply sluggish in Windows use, i tried my i7-12700K with E-Cores disabled and it feels sluggish as well.
Do you own a Ryzen 9 PC?
A friend has a 5900X and is just as snappy as my 12700K. I just noticed recently how massive the difference cores and threads do make when i switched from a Haswell i7 to a Zen 1 Ryzen 7.
@@saricubra2867 I'm still rockn' on a Ryzen 9 3950x. Not sluggish at all.
@@networkg It's a Ryzen 9 proving my point
Try using linux 😊
I was on Intel for a decent number of years. Talking like...2012. Sure I liked the performance all well and good but my god would the room get hot. And there were many times where I considered upgrading to the next generation, only to further worry about the higher costs AND heat. Wasn't until around 2022 that I switched things up with a amd ryzen 9 5900x. The cost was ridiculously low for me especially since I was going full on build-a-new-computer-mode.
Three years later here and I still love it. All my games (up to Alan Wake 2 most recently) and project editing/art apps run smooth and I'm not having to pop the AC on. Sadly, throwing power at cpu's and gpu's along with upscalers like DLSS, seems to be what many of these manufacturers are aiming towards now instead of optimizations in software. I'm sure we can all look forward to more failure rates and house fires in the future!
calling intel literal e-waste is a major low blow and hilarious.
kinda funny
10 years ago i had a AMD System and i said to myself i will never buy a AMD System again because of all the problems.
went in 2017 for a i7 7700K and in early 2022 to the i7 12700KF and i´m since then happy with it and yes i´m playing in 1080p with a RTX 4080
You ended buying AMD at the worst possible time.
The only time my family had an AMD CPU was before year 2000. I think it was a K5. It didn't go well and my father went back to Pentium lol.
I built my first own rig in 2015 and back then AMD had a terrible reputation so of course I went with an i5-4590 and later upgraded to an i7-4790.
Early this year I got a 10400 + B460 Aorus Pro AC combo from a friend for $59. The deal was so good there was no way I could say no to that, and now it's my current gaming system. I don't really play AAA games these days so I'm pretty confident that this rig will last me at least a few years more.
That said I might be interested in going with AMD next, assuming that they provide better value than Intel by the time I need the next build. I've only been using old CPUs since 2019 so it's quite a lot different from how most people build their PCs.
AM3 was crap, AM4 was good. They learned from the mistakes and fixed most of them on AM4.
@@thimblemunch24 K10-based AM3 CPU's like the Phenom II competed pretty well with Intel at the time... the problem being that they were competitive with later Core 2 CPU's and not the first i7's which were already released on the enthusiast socket 1366, so the bar was raised - otherwise I'd say it was the peak of dark ages AMD (2006-2016). AM3+ on the other hand (which carried the notorious FX CPUs) was a joke and even fell behind faster Phenom II X6's in some cases, and it only got worse later on when development for it was effectively abandoned after the release of the FX-8350 in 2012.
I had first gen ryzen, and it's the worse experience with a platform I've ever had, and I'm still bitter
what the bloody hell are you talking about ? On Intel you can quickly and easily control voltage, power settings, limits, cores and clocks, on what planet are you on ? I have no issues on my ASUS Z790 ROG motherboard with my INTEL CPU.
I'm actually using a 14700k and free from terrible 1% lows in gaming and no stutters or slowdowns in video editing like my 7800x3D 😂
I still remember this two-month period from November to December 2022, when the 13900K was the absolute king of CPUs. Released right when the 4090 was, it basically became what most people bought. 7000X3D had a rough launch, and it really seemed as if Arrow Lake was launched a year earlier like it was supposed to, Intel would be in a really good place right now.
13900K with tuned RAM is still king
@@griffin1366 I guess the thing with Intel is that it lets you game at *almost* 7800X3D levels while letting you do some actual productivity. Meanwhile, Arrow Lake decides "Hm, let's scrap that and instead make it even worse for games while giving basically zero productivity uplift, besides a better iGPU for video encoding." Considering that the instability issue is fixed, an i9-14900KS is looking like a better deal with every passing day. That's until 3D-Vcache no longer sacrifices productivity performance of course.
@@RobloxianXArrow Lake has an NPU.
@@RobloxianX But if you take a 7950X3D right now, you have better gaming performance, about equal production performance, and its capped at 160W vs the 14900KS' 320W in extreme profile (or 253W on performance).
There is also the matter that you can likely upgrade to the 11950X3D in a few years, which is cheaper than buying an entirely new platform...
14900KS and the 7950X3D are priced similarly, 650$
But the 14900K and the 7950X are a lot cheaper, with the 7800X3D closer to this pair, 450$
If you care about gaming and productivity, then the 7950X3D seems the smarter choice.
If you care about gaming, then the 7800X3D seems the smarter choice, because it also has an easy upgrade later.
And if you are after productivity, then the application is the deciding factor. 14900K or 7950X would both work, and again, the 7950X has an easy upgrade path in the future.
Even on price I see no reason to go intel as the market is currently.
Wendel over at Level 1 Tech says having the CPU under cooled will actually save it and prevent it from killing itself. The better cooled eg. water cooling the higher the odds of it blowing itself up because the voltage will continue to increase itself to ruination if the temps are all within the envelops, however if the CPU senses it's running too hot it will thermal throttle itself which will save it.
I'd change that title to: "These Intel CPUs are worthless". Even if the current round of CPUs are not much of an improvement (AMD 's too) having two companies really competing is a very good thing for all of us.
I agree, but Intel must save themselves. Arrow Lake is not an upgrade, it's more a refresh. It regresses in many areas, particularly gaming. Intel needs to price the 285k (aka 15900k) the same or (even better) $50 less than the 14900k AND guarantee platform support an additional cpu generation. A small incentive for consumers to support them thru their transition.
It's Business 101 to understand, you must bring VALUE when you're sitting at the bottom. Intel's performance in the last few yrs from 13K cpus to 14k and now 15k is ridiculous. Their slow demise is self-inflicting.
AMD is competing. Not sure what Intel is doing.
I have a 13600K, z690 and 32gb 4000MHz ram. Best combo I ever had. I do rendering, gaming, sometimes for 12 hours straight. Never had stability issues. On the other hand, my old Ryzen 5600... well
I have been using Intel 13700k with AMD 7900XTX and 32 gb of ddr5 at 6400MHz for 20 months and had zero problems with it. Works great in all games, no problems at maxed settings 1440p/165hz. Yes the cpu is warmer and less energy efficient that the competition, but my air cooled cpu rarely get hoter than 60-75°C during heavy gaming. Yes you must update bios to the latest just in case, but everything else is fine.
Two year old 13700k running at 5.8P/4.7E perfectly.
Faster than 14900KS in games. Before it even came out.
5.8Ghz? Literal platinum sample right there. What voltages and how did you test for stability?
that realy nice ! my 14700k runs pcores 5.7ghz ecores 4.5ghz hitting 37k in cinebench r23 . cpu at 1.35v with offset -0.100v 253watt intel default with 64gb ddr5 cl36 6000mhz on new microcode
My 14900KS hits 6.5ghz overclocked
Got it running at 5.9ghz now on two cores and 6 cores at 5.8ghz.
@@RUclipsAccount-i4m how ?
The 13700K won't die on you, 14th gen had even higher voltages than 13th because of the higher clock speeds, which made them degrade faster. For example my CPU had the max VID of 1.309V, giving it more longevity than other models with higher VID. If you really want to see dying CPUs, swap it to maybe a 13900K but more like a 14900K. Those beasts have way higher VIDs, making the overall avg voltage way higher for them. I got my 13700k on day1 (basically it's 2 years old now), never had a single issue except bad memory OC attempts.
Servers with close to 100% failure rates profes it is a silicon issue not only high voltage. Idk if the same channel made a video about it 3 months ago.
Pretty cool to see the power draw difference a fan makes in numbers.
5% or 9 watts delta with 72C 86C and 164w to 173w is quite big and makes it worth running a big and good fan.
Fun fact, I bought my 11700K for $150 new from Micro Center a few years back because that was the start of when nobody wanted to buy Intel anymore because it wasn't good and, you know, it's only good for the money. It's horribly power inefficient and not very performant compared to the 5800X.
11th gen was a total dud. Worst gen out of 10th-14th gen.
You should've go with the 11900K and a good Z590 MB like the Maximus Hero XIII, which would give you a good performance boost.
@@robicelus I only got it because of the price I got the combo at. So that would not have been to my benefit. The only cooler I could afford with the money I had left is barely enough with 2 fans maxxed out and attached.
@@Felale "I bought my 11700K for $150 new from Micro Center " It was a value purchase. That was literally the first sentence.
@@FelaleWhich 11th gen?
Mobile or desktop?
They aren't the same.
You need a more expensive motherboard because it must have good VRMs, you need a more expensive cooler to handle the heat and you will spend more money long term on electricity, but that's something that almost no one considers at the time of purchase
@@xTRTSCx Don't forget more expensive 7200mhz DDR5 and once again single generation mb platform.
Limiting it to 125W is perfectly fine, especially for gaming. Productivity is still up there too.
125W x 4 hours a day at $0.20c per kW/h is only $36.53 a year.
7800X3D is equivalent to $21.92 a year.
8:23 notice how an identical cooler is able to keep the 145W Intel CPU at 63C whereas the AMD CPU is hitting 89C from a mere 66W load. So you actually need a better cooler with the lower power AMD x3D CPU.
@@longdang2681 Notice how Vex himself said that the temperatures aren't directly comparable and that installing a higher power cooler on the 7800X3D would do nothing to lower them? Not that it matters, since it's not like it ever thermal throttles.
@@HunterTracks Doesn't change the fact that you don't need an more expensive cooler for the Intel system versus AMD x3D. It's flawed logic to immediately assume that a higher wattage CPU will need more cooling capacity(this is only true if you are comparing CPUs with similar thermal transfer ability). Even if the numbers aren't directly comparable, 26C difference is still quite big for the 12% performance increase. It's no secret that x3D chips don't transfer thermal energy as well as regular chips.
Why nobody talks aboit the i9-13900KS?
why no 5$ thermalright frame for save intel cpu's broooo???
It depends, some cpus benefit from it but not all. some even cause other issues.
@@juice7661 well,no,it prevents bending,thats all
First thing I got when installing my 14900k. A few bio tweaks and haven't had any issues.
plz bro
i got a 13700k a couple months after launch for my first system and it's always worked fine for me. Whole system feels super responsive no matter what i throw at it. P+E cores are what made me go intel. Was pretty disappointed to hear about the degradation and voltage problems but somehow i feel as though my processor wasn't affected
my 12700 runs like a champ, you dont have to worry just undercloack bit plus undervolt
Same. But I always updated my BIOS and changed motherboard settings.
What an AWESOME video! Thanks for making it! Not often I watch a 45+ minute video anymore, but this one was well worth it!