I worked on the construction of the underpass at Water Works. The roundabout had been there for a few years and the spans of the bridges were designed for the underpass in mind. The bridge at Gates Corner' is full of 120cm polystyrene void formers to reduce the volume of concrete used in the bridge. This made it cheaper to build and lighter.
Well that is fascinating. So they knew the underpass was coming some years before it got parliamentary approval, and prepared for it. I'll walk over the bridge at Gates Corner with a different feeling now - polystyrene, wow! Thanks for the comment.
@@HollowayTyre I was told the central line bridge over the A406 cutting was, at the time of opening, the longest box construction bridge in the country. Built cheaply and quickly for minimal disruption.
Can I ask...on the thumbnail, before you play the video...there is a huge round and flat area of grass? I have always wondered why it is there. Did it used to be a rounderbout, do you know if it used to be a rounderbout?
I grew up 200 metres from the Waterworks. Two things, it's located in South Woodford, not Woodford, not Walthamstow. South Woodford, E18, London Borough of Redbridge. Secondly in over 50 years I've never heard one local person refer to that forest as Walthamstow forest.
Nice presentation. I grew up in this area between 1958 and 1967, living just a few yards from the Wadham Road bridge which still carries the North Circular Road traffic, with the Liverpool Street to Chingford railway line running underneath. I have many happy memories of walks in the forest with my parents, especially in the parts which were destroyed when the new road was built, from the bridge, climbing up to Waterworks corner. In the late 60s, I actually went several times with a school friend, when a great swathe had been carved out through the forest; it was heart-breaking to see the destruction of that ancient woodland. I also remember there being a memorial stone made out to a Gypsy Lee within that stretch of forest, but have no idea if this has survived. I moved to Devon in the late 1980s, but still travelled frequently along this stretch of the North Circular to visit my parents who then lived in Chigwell, until 2012. Each time I approach the Waterworks corner on the now six lane highway, I am reminded of the happy times of childhood in these woods over to the left, enough of which still survive, in spite of the 'march of progress.'
Thanks for sharing this, its interesting to hear from someone who was actually there - I can only imagine how sad it must have been to see the destruction. There is the Gypsy stone (goo.gl/maps/VbQJX8Gg1jvLc85a6) but this is made out to Rodney Smith - so is this a different memorial? 2 things you might be able to cast light on - why is Sky Peals Road called that, what is this name about? There is a tunnel under the A406 - a big substantial tunnel that looks like its built for vehicles. But there is no route to get a vehicle to the tunnel. I can't figure out why such a substantial tunnel exists there.
@@HollowayTyre Thanks for your reply. Yes, it was devastating to see such wanton destruction of the forest, I'm not sure I've ever felt any better about it. I would like to say that we know better these days, but it's simply not true - think of the HS2 Railway. The Gypsy stone is one and the same, it's my memory which is at fault. My father took many photos of us in these woods, which I still have somewhere. I have no idea why Sky Peals Road is named so, it appears to be the only road in the country with this name. I'm sure local historians will have some information - it's right on the border between Essex and the E4 postal district, though previously this would have been all Essex. With regard to the tunnel under the A406, once again I have no idea why this is there, it might be something to do with drainage. I note that one of the other contributors (Nickolas Reeks) states that he worked on the construction of the Waterworks underpass - maybe he can shed some light on this - otherwise local planning records of the time will surely give some information if you can find it!
Hello from New Zealand. Thanks for this, I lived in Spruce Hills Rd in Walthamstow a number of years ago and loved going for a walk through the forest, was a sanctuary in the big smoke! Always wondered about that busy road going through the forest. Certainly didn't know about the former road, thanks again!
Something to do with the juxtaposition of the roads, the city and the forest all co-existing together - such an urban modern environment alongside an ancient natural environment. You might say its a forest surrounded by highway (and city)...
@@HollowayTyre we just knew it as waterworks corner.it was a big dog leg junction when I was a kid. Then I heard they changed to a roundabout and now of course this monster. We lived in Walpole Road.
the problem with slicing woodland is it destroys a more viable wildlife habitat, having said that I am surprised the old road has not been developed with houses to match those on the other side of the road. While the three lane routing is handy for motorists I wonder if a two lane dual carriageway would have been efficient at a 40mph limit.
Once its gone, its gone. Hard to bring it back to the same habitat standard. Whenever I drive on motorways that have a 50mph or 60mph limit, it never really affects my sat navs arrival time. Slower = more consistent = just as fast overall? Can that be right?
@@HollowayTyre I can remember a particular trip when we joined the M25 south from the M3 and the traffic was slow and 'jumpy' (40 - 70+moh) ... then the variable speed limit switched on to 60 and all 4 lanes went immediately to a consistent around 60mph. This immediately (felt?) much safer and was faster.
Considering how few forests are left in the UK, you'd think they'd try to preserve some. They should bury these roads and allow the hills that are formed from the tunnels take over.
I agree, burying roads is a nice if expensive way to go. It does seem sad to have cut through part of Walthamstow Forest, you can't get back that old growth.
It could be... I hadn't thought about it, but its an interesting point! Some might say that Redbridge roundabout would better meet the brief. Its more on the 45 degrees - or perhaps Charlie Browns roundabout.
it's one of those places that's pronounced differently depending where you're from. Those in Becontree pronounce it your way, but I, from Ilford, always heard Beacon Tree. Now I live in Leicestershire, there's a main road called Catherine Street. I've no idea why everyone pronounces it "Cather-Rhine" and when challenged they don't know themselves. Another example is the river Nene near Peterborough. Nean or Nenn, depends where you're from.
@@MattDavis_BeechingsGhosts indeed I have a waterway atlas that says Nene has different pronunciations above and below a certain point on the river - love me a shibboleth \m/
Debateable... it's fairly interchangeable with the residents, but if I give out my address I would always say it how it's spelt, Beacontree, so they get the spelling correct. The 123 announces it as beckon though.
I worked on the construction of the underpass at Water Works. The roundabout had been there for a few years and the spans of the bridges were designed for the underpass in mind. The bridge at Gates Corner' is full of 120cm polystyrene void formers to reduce the volume of concrete used in the bridge. This made it cheaper to build and lighter.
Well that is fascinating. So they knew the underpass was coming some years before it got parliamentary approval, and prepared for it.
I'll walk over the bridge at Gates Corner with a different feeling now - polystyrene, wow!
Thanks for the comment.
@@HollowayTyre I was told the central line bridge over the A406 cutting was, at the time of opening, the longest box construction bridge in the country. Built cheaply and quickly for minimal disruption.
@@MattDavis_BeechingsGhosts the London Bridge mainline station is chock full of polystyrene blocks for similar reasons \m/
Can I ask...on the thumbnail, before you play the video...there is a huge round and flat area of grass? I have always wondered why it is there. Did it used to be a rounderbout, do you know if it used to be a rounderbout?
I grew up 200 metres from the Waterworks. Two things, it's located in South Woodford, not Woodford, not Walthamstow. South Woodford, E18, London Borough of Redbridge.
Secondly in over 50 years I've never heard one local person refer to that forest as Walthamstow forest.
Thanks very much. I've lived round here for 14 years and only now beginning to understand how the road layout used to be. This was really useful.
Glad you enjoyed it
Nice presentation. I grew up in this area between 1958 and 1967, living just a few yards from the Wadham Road bridge which still carries the North Circular Road traffic, with the Liverpool Street to Chingford railway line running underneath. I have many happy memories of walks in the forest with my parents, especially in the parts which were destroyed when the new road was built, from the bridge, climbing up to Waterworks corner. In the late 60s, I actually went several times with a school friend, when a great swathe had been carved out through the forest; it was heart-breaking to see the destruction of that ancient woodland. I also remember there being a memorial stone made out to a Gypsy Lee within that stretch of forest, but have no idea if this has survived.
I moved to Devon in the late 1980s, but still travelled frequently along this stretch of the North Circular to visit my parents who then lived in Chigwell, until 2012. Each time I approach the Waterworks corner on the now six lane highway, I am reminded of the happy times of childhood in these woods over to the left, enough of which still survive, in spite of the 'march of progress.'
A slight correction. The Wadham Road bridge is still there, carrying local traffic, but the North Circular Road now goes underneath.
Thanks for sharing this, its interesting to hear from someone who was actually there - I can only imagine how sad it must have been to see the destruction. There is the Gypsy stone (goo.gl/maps/VbQJX8Gg1jvLc85a6) but this is made out to Rodney Smith - so is this a different memorial?
2 things you might be able to cast light on - why is Sky Peals Road called that, what is this name about? There is a tunnel under the A406 - a big substantial tunnel that looks like its built for vehicles. But there is no route to get a vehicle to the tunnel. I can't figure out why such a substantial tunnel exists there.
@@HollowayTyre Thanks for your reply. Yes, it was devastating to see such wanton destruction of the forest, I'm not sure I've ever felt any better about it. I would like to say that we know better these days, but it's simply not true - think of the HS2 Railway. The Gypsy stone is one and the same, it's my memory which is at fault. My father took many photos of us in these woods, which I still have somewhere.
I have no idea why Sky Peals Road is named so, it appears to be the only road in the country with this name. I'm sure local historians will have some information - it's right on the border between Essex and the E4 postal district, though previously this would have been all Essex. With regard to the tunnel under the A406, once again I have no idea why this is there, it might be something to do with drainage. I note that one of the other contributors (Nickolas Reeks) states that he worked on the construction of the Waterworks underpass - maybe he can shed some light on this - otherwise local planning records of the time will surely give some information if you can find it!
@@HollowayTyre it was for the cattle that used to roam the forest, same with the cattle grids that were on the roundabout.
Hello from New Zealand. Thanks for this, I lived in Spruce Hills Rd in Walthamstow a number of years ago and loved going for a walk through the forest, was a sanctuary in the big smoke! Always wondered about that busy road going through the forest. Certainly didn't know about the former road, thanks again!
I imagine you have a LOT more space for walking now, must be a big change being in NZ.
As a South Londoner with the south circular I am a bit jealous of their north circular 😂
I'd say there isn't too much to be jealous of - but I don't have to suffer the tricky slow routes of South London.
I've lived with a quest family in Walthamstow a few years ago and went jogging in that forest 👍
Good video, I’ve always wondered what Southend Road was like before the highways and roundabout were constructed
I wish I could find more pictures of Walthamstow forest before it was built on - they seem hard to come by.
Should have built a tunnel
Yep, like the Bell Common tunnel, which has a cricket pitch on top of it! I'd love to have seen the Walthamstow Forest in its connected state.
How this different from any other highway surrounded by forest? You think the roads came first?
Something to do with the juxtaposition of the roads, the city and the forest all co-existing together - such an urban modern environment alongside an ancient natural environment. You might say its a forest surrounded by highway (and city)...
I remember a V2 fell on the corner where Grove road met Woodford road. I believe an army convoy was passing.
Fascinating stuff - its hard to find photos. What was this place called - something corner?
@@HollowayTyre we just knew it as waterworks corner.it was a big dog leg junction when I was a kid. Then I heard they changed to a roundabout and now of course this monster.
We lived in Walpole Road.
@@HollowayTyre I believe it was called 'Gates Corner' - named after the Ford dealership which was there.
You have got the dates a little wrong, I lived in Grove road in 1979 and this had not been built by then.
ah, I hadn't realised this. Its been tricky to tie dates down, so thanks for the input.
the problem with slicing woodland is it destroys a more viable wildlife habitat, having said that I am surprised the old road has not been developed with houses to match those on the other side of the road. While the three lane routing is handy for motorists I wonder if a two lane dual carriageway would have been efficient at a 40mph limit.
Once its gone, its gone. Hard to bring it back to the same habitat standard. Whenever I drive on motorways that have a 50mph or 60mph limit, it never really affects my sat navs arrival time. Slower = more consistent = just as fast overall? Can that be right?
@@HollowayTyre I can remember a particular trip when we joined the M25 south from the M3 and the traffic was slow and 'jumpy' (40 - 70+moh) ... then the variable speed limit switched on to 60 and all 4 lanes went immediately to a consistent around 60mph. This immediately (felt?) much safer and was faster.
Don’t you mean “ancient irreplaceable forest bulldozed for ugly noisy polluting massive junction” - fixed the title for you
forests are replaceable
forests, yes. Ancient ones? Not so much!
Exactly totally agree
Considering how few forests are left in the UK, you'd think they'd try to preserve some. They should bury these roads and allow the hills that are formed from the tunnels take over.
I agree, burying roads is a nice if expensive way to go. It does seem sad to have cut through part of Walthamstow Forest, you can't get back that old growth.
Is that were East London meets with Northeast London.
It could be... I hadn't thought about it, but its an interesting point! Some might say that Redbridge roundabout would better meet the brief. Its more on the 45 degrees - or perhaps Charlie Browns roundabout.
@@HollowayTyre Absolutely
@@HollowayTyre Not the Green Man interchange?
@@lameduck3630 oh yes, good point! Could be…
i had never known the truth after driving over this route approx. 100,000 times
That is a lot of times!
This is so depressing.....
As a gay black man I love this video thank you from Nigeria :)
I worked for Husband and Co. and was one of the chief designers of this junction. Bore my kids and grandkids every time we go round it.
Bore away! You should be proud!
@@HollowayTyre thanks!
the cars going the wrong way round drives me nuts
I remember the first time I drove around the wrong way when entering France - scared the hell outta me!
*right way
@@fplsupport1251 oh yeah… we can’t all be wrong…!
Pronounced Beckon tree \m/
it's one of those places that's pronounced differently depending where you're from. Those in Becontree pronounce it your way, but I, from Ilford, always heard Beacon Tree. Now I live in Leicestershire, there's a main road called Catherine Street. I've no idea why everyone pronounces it "Cather-Rhine" and when challenged they don't know themselves. Another example is the river Nene near Peterborough. Nean or Nenn, depends where you're from.
@@MattDavis_BeechingsGhosts indeed I have a waterway atlas that says Nene has different pronunciations above and below a certain point on the river - love me a shibboleth \m/
I was about to apologise for getting the pronunciation wrong, but maybe its not. I should go and ask people on that road!
How are we pronouncing 'shibboleth'?😄
Debateable... it's fairly interchangeable with the residents, but if I give out my address I would always say it how it's spelt, Beacontree, so they get the spelling correct. The 123 announces it as beckon though.
Forest? Just a bit of a woods.
sure, when you consider, it used to on to whipps cross wanstead flats and out in to epping and harlow sure just a woods you tool
Let's just bulldoze an ancient forest what's it matter disgraceful
Certainly seems to be a shame, I agree.
What forest? 👎🏻