I requested him few days ago to make an video on adhesive ...and here I am at the start of the video...feeling humble..thank you for the video for all of us ...greatly appreciate your work
I’ve read lots of books on bookbinding, your clear explanation of the difference between glue and paste, then relating the historical and modern versions of each, made so much clear. Also, showing the different strokes in applying glue… thank you, you are incredibly generous with your knowledge.
I did use Elmer's (white) glue for my first few attempts at binding after figuring out that it's PVA. It seemed to me to work perfectly fine, with the caveat that it's slightly acidic due to acid being involved in the manufacturing process and not neutralized due to expense and the fact that, being meant for child use, no one really expects it to be used for anything meant to last a long time. (Incidentally, your explanation of acidity was slightly misleading*.) I've heard some people say that it doesn't hold very well, but I didn't have any problems with it. Having used better glues since, but still not being far removed from my Elmer's glue days, I think the reason for the disagreement is that Elmer's has a higher water content and thus takes longer to set. If you're used to glue setting in ten minutes, and everything falls apart when you check it in ten minutes, then it seems like it didn't work very well, but it holds fine for anything I've left to set overnight (and given how little time I had for binding when I started, that was pretty much everything, since I couldn't get back for the next step until the next day, generally). On the other hand, the higher water content can play havoc on your materials when it comes to stretch and wrinkling (and sometimes running colors); until I improved my adhesive selection, I was driving myself crazy trying to figure out why my endpapers kept coming out terribly. There's also the problem that the slight acidity is still enough to cause yellowing and brittleness eventually. I don't know exactly how quickly it becomes a problem (I've recently seen the book I bound 5 years ago for my sister, and it's still okay), but I wouldn't expect an Elmer's book to last a lifetime, let alone centuries. One experiment I've been meaning to try, and that you might also be interested in if you end up playing around with Elmer's, is neutralizing the glue with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate/bicarbonate of soda), which is an easily-available, nontoxic, safe-to-handle base. Things I want to try include: is it better to mix with water first? Is it better to use exactly enough to neutralize or is an excess okay? If an excess is a problem, is it because of the baking soda specifically or because a basic glue is just as bad as an acidic glue? (To test that last one, I might ( _very_ carefully) try a ( _very_ sight) excess of lye instead, to get slightly basic glue without the baking soda.) * Substances with differing pH that are still both acidic do not react _because of_ pH, though they may still react just like any combination of chemicals may or may not react if you don't know precisely what they are. The acidity of wood just means that you don't want to use a basic adhesive; the reasons for the high acidity of wood glue are more related to set time and the color and hardness of the glue after setting. If similarity in pH was the only issue, then Elmer's would be fine for non-archival paper, which is also slightly acidic. Instead, books are best made from acid-free archival paper and acid-free archival glue for the same reason: acids oxidize cellulose, making the material brittle and leaving behind carbon and hydrocarbons that stain the material. The reason acidic glues don't do this to wood is that the longer cellulose and lignen chains are more resistant to oxidation. More specifically, cellulose and lignen are both glucose polymers, and the acid can oxidize a glucose molecule at the end of the polymer chain, exposing another molecule to oxidize, etc.; The short paper fibers expose a lot of polymer ends to the acid, while wood generally only has a single layer of exposed ends on the plane on which it's been cut. Paper also suffers more structurally from even the same amount of oxidation due to both the shorter fibers and the fact that the material is (almost always) far thinner.
Yes, unfortunately I have to simplify, and in this case I'm caught out a bit. In the this context, where most papers are buffered, there will be a reaction with acid glue. In the past I have used the explanation of acidic wood glue having more "bite", but this simplification seemed worse, so I don't use it any more. The idea that everything in bookbinding has to be completely "acid free", or neutral, or (usually over) buffered, I think is wrong. Using a slightly acid adhesive with quality paper should be fine (pH 6-7). My understanding is that oxidisation of the lignin, rather than the cellulose, is the larger component of paper yellowing. Most pure starch or flour pastes are slightly acid (maybe 6.5). Just about every pre 16th century book is an example of how slightly acid wheat flour paste has no impact on lignin free paper. The quality of the paper is as important as the adhesive. But most 21st century office, or quality (expensive) papers are lignin free, so we can focus on the adhesive. Thanks for your detailed comments.
@@DASBookbinding As I mentioned in another comment, while I know more about chemistry than the average person, I'm no expert; I'd not heard that about lignen being more responsible for yellowing, though it sense, given both that lignen has more ends than cellulose and that the highest-quality paper tends to be cotton, linen, hemp, or otherwise not made from wood. I would agree with you on principle, though, that over-buffering is probably a bad idea. A book in regular use is likely to come into contact with mild acids all the time, and the acid/base reaction leaving CO2 and various salts behind in the paper seems like a bad thing. Especially considering that CO2 in water becomes carbonic acid, which is what the buffering was meant to avoid.
Ive never tried bookbinding but I am fascinated by your videos and love watching them as I find them to be very relaxing. You are very talented, keep up the good work.
Methyl cellulose, huh? And lo and behold, that's within reasonable prices at Mercado Libre (think South America's Ebay/Amazon), seems much more convenient than making my own paste, thanks for that bit of knowledge!
Methylcellulose is easiest to find as wallpaper glue where I live. It's usually sold under a brand name, but "small print" says methylcellulose, so it pays off to read it.
Just keep an eye out for additives. Wallpaper pastes often have lots of additives that can worry me. If it doesn't have any, or only a few that look safe, that is great.
Purely anecdotal here, but I've found that by making my corn starch paste partly with rubbing alcohol (say, 20% of the liquid), and then keeping it in an air-tight container in the refrigerator, extends its life considerably. It may tack and dry a bit more quickly than paste made with pure water, and possibly the adhesion strength is slightly different, but if so, I haven't noticed either. Likewise, I have no idea how it affects the pH level. The paste does seem to work as usual, though, and I've got a batch in the fridge I made months ago that's still good.
Isopropanol is neutral and the only reaction it has with water is dissolution, so it doesn't affect the pH directly; I don't think it causes any chemical reactions with starch that would create any acids or bases either, but I'm not exactly an expert. Personally, I've found the same thing just from rinsing my jars with isopropanol, not drying them thoroughly so there's still a little bit left, (maybe a couple ml) , and putting my paste in while still hot (hence sterile). And storing it in the fridge, of course. Even after using some paste and putting it back, it's not moldy or runny after a couple of weeks. I haven't had paste last for months just because I use it up (more due to small batches than frequent use), so I don't know if it can remain unspoiled for that long, but I think 20% alcohol is probably overdoing it.
Of course the IPA is acting as a sterilising agent and thus less microbes are in the paste to start with, and thus the longer life. If you add during cooking most of it will boil off. It would have no impact on pH, which is probably slightly acid to start with, but not enough that is important for bookbinding or paper repair.
I learnt a lot from this, thank you. For many years, and I am only a utilitarian bookbinder, I have a used wallpaper paste which has a cellulose and PVA content and an anti-microbial action. I will add some PVA depending on what I am doing. I have yet to do anything that justifies a leather binding.
As always that was very educational, I have been using Evostick PVA wood glue and it has been working for me, I like how it dries clear and it is flexible. have to put on covers on the solution manuals that i have binded , what i have done is cut several notches and placed short pieces of organic twine to hold the block together, all of my projects so far has been with A4. Thanks for making these vids they have been great help.
Glad you enjoy the videos. I'm not so keen on the wood glue. But if it works for you. I assume you mean double-fan binding for inserting the pieces of cord. I used to do this all the time, but now only do it when double-fan binding a thicker book, and then not always. I don't like damaging the edge of the paper. All the best, DAS
@@DASBookbinding Thanks again, yes you are you are correct in your assumption, the books are large ones both over 600 sheets of A4, an although I have not put covers on them, they have been taking much abuse. The books are actually vector calculus text and a physics solution manual, when the price of the Cal text drops to under $100 us dollars i have every intention of purchasing it additionally I keep both blocks away from sunlight and in plastic so i have not noticed any discoloration at this time roughly 2yrs that is. Gona get the edges trimmed before i put cover on them. Really liked your vids on the book casing. keep up the great vids .
Thank you for another magistral lesson on bookbinding. I recently started using a new bookbinding PVA and I noticed that it dries faster than the one I've been using so far. Now I found harder to back the books because after ploughing the edges and rounding the spine, the glue is already pretty set. I wonder if I could use mix for this first thin layer of glue on the spine or that would it introduce too much humidity.... Regards
For the spine you really want the strength and would worry about this decreasing the strength. Maybe apply a bit of heat with a hair dryer to soften it for rounding?
For someone looking for a good PVA for beginning and hobby level: Anecdotally, from other crafting experience, mod podge furniture finish is incredibly difficult to reactivate once fully cured, compared to regular white glue or regular mod podge. As a multidisciplinary craftsperson, furniture finish mod podge is my go-to PVA, even for bookbinding.
My general rule of thumb is to avoid PVA designed to work with wood. Reversibility is considered a good thing in bookbinding. Thus why EVA has become popular.
@@DASBookbinding I was thinking more, when I lived on a more humid climate, original mod podge would be sticky on my projects years later. Yuck! Furniture finish mod podge is meant for paper and cloth.
I've used that polyester "paper" for book covers, because I don't have any way to print logos on leather or cloth, but the downside is that you can't paste down the edge flap. It just pops back up and if you score it enough to bend it breaks. I haven't quite figured out what to do about this. also the casing in hasn't gone that well because I've been trying to use pva instead of mix.
Also, I tried to mix PVA and Yes Paste and *it did not work AT ALL* ! It actually curdled, which is not a good thing if you don't have whey to balance it.
This is probably going to horrify you but, as a beginner, I've been using wallpaper paste as the paste and it seems to work OK. None of my bindings are sufficiently old however to know how this will work out long term.
Your videos are fantastic! I’m guessing that you are an educator….Possibly a Tertiary Educator. Your RUclips tutorials are so impressive because of your attention to detail and stunning books but also because of the wealth of knowledge that you have. I think that fact that you always reference your knowledge is wonderful and, it definitely makes your tutorials stand out from the crowd. I must say I never feel the need to refer to your references because I trust your research and expertise. Thank you 🙏 for sharing your passion with the world. Jaime from Melbourne. One more thing, how can I make bole? I can’t seem to find how. Thanks again 😊
Hi Jamie, I have a complex background:) Are you coming to the bookbinding conference in Brisbane later in the year? There is a star lineup and for many people it is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to meet so many famous binders. And I'll be there too:) qbg.org.au/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=579936&module_id=558941 Almost forgot. Bole is just the special clay which you buy from somewhere like The Gold Leaf Factory. I use the stuff sold in powdered form. You can buy it in solid form and grind yourself. Then mix a tiny bit (like 1/4 teaspoon) with your favourite binding agent like thin paste or watered down PVA, or my favourite gelatine. I show this in the edge gilding videos. Darryn
What is the reason wheat paste is used for leather rather than methyl cel? Is Methyl cel not suitable for leather? Would methyl cel/pva mix be suitable for working with leather?
MC is not as strong as adhesive as flour paste. And you want a strong adhesive for leather. Nothing worse than leather popping off the spine. For me it’s all or nothing when it comes to PVA and leather. Usually with mix you get the best of both when working with paper and board. With leather I think you get the worst of both in terms of moisture and tack.
Can you use water proof adhesives? Like waterproof wood glue? And most importantly do they work with water proof papers and boards? I'd like to make some waterproof steifbroschuren for in the field. Edit: as so basically no wood glue because of pH.
PVA is waterproof. This is why it can't be reversed. So any PVA aimed at paper craft should be fine. But not all PVAs are equal when it comes to sticking to stuff. I have found one that sticks to just about anything. But I don't have a retail source for it. Sorry.
I like the precision of your language, explaining what and how you are doing. I have two questions: 1. What means DAS. In my native language, written with capital letters, it expresses THE (emphasis in, to be the only one). Since you do a great job, you may claim this article. (However, other also make nice videos about bookbinding) 2. Where did you get this cute little heatplate, shown in minute 2:44. I was looking in eBay and others, but couldn't find anything. Keep on making such nice videos.
Thanks! DAS is just my initials. But because of my heritage it also a bit of a play on the definite article. I'm certainly not the only and would be very happy if someone made even better videos than me! It took me awhile to find a mug warmer with a variable temperature. cosori.com/products/original-automatic-coffee-warmer-co294-cw Happy binding! DAS
question about preservative additives to home-made paste - do you know if other oils like eucalyptus, ravensara, tea tree, or cajeput would work? (after having infections after all four wisdom teeth extractions, i loathe cloves . . . 8/ ) Come to think, tea tree may do well . . .
I haven't tried them and I'd worry about potential negative effects due to the compounds in them - not just acidity. Clove oil has been used by bookbinders as a preservative for paste for at least 100 years so is well tested. But as I mention, I don't use it much myself any more. I'm just extremely careful about hygiene and treat the jars and utensils with boiling water and keep the paste in the fridge. Nothing stops flour paste going off quickly, but refined starch paste can be kept for many weeks. It does need straining and mixing again after storage.
Different type of glue. All the PVA/EVAs I recommend in the video description should tack in 10 seconds or less. This is assuming normal bookbinding materials, not plastics or something unusual.
I acquired an 1897 book "The Black Watch", a history of the regiment. It is an ex-library book, and they rebound the book. The text block appears as though it was sewn on a sewing machine (must have been quite a machine!) and the glued the cover directly to the spine. I want to rebind the book to look a bit more like the original, but how do I get the cover off the text block? What will take the glue off? I've looked online but can't find any solutions. Thank you.
I made a video about pulling a book for my Patreons. Here it is. It's not one of my usual full on videos. ruclips.net/video/JfkNZWN3FsA/видео.html The thing is that the 1897 book would have been bound with hide glue which would reactivate with water (using a MC poultice as I show in the video). But who knows what the rebind uses. Some of the modern synthetic adhesives are difficult to remove. Heat is usually the last resort (hair dryer). Try water first then heat. Or keep it is as a great artefact of a library rebind. It won't be long before bindings like this will be prized.
A point of clarification: you say in the video that you would explain why you use EVA over PVA, but I never saw that explanation (I did check the transcript too). Is it simply a cost issue, as EVA supposedly has a longer shelf life than PVA (given it's otherwise similar properties to PVA)? Finding information on EVA for bookbinding can be tough; even the 'BPG Adhesives' section of Paper Conservation Catalog barely mentions it. Here in the US it's impossible to find for bookbinding, yet it's used in a lot of other industries (paint especially). Maybe 'BEVA D-8' is similar to the Evasol I've seen you use on your channel? The only other one I've seen that even contains EVA is 'Jade R', and it seems to be a PVA/EVA mix.
I'm sure I talk about it somewhere. I wonder where? The cost of a high quality PVA, such as Jade, and an EVA suitable for bookbinding are about the same price and in terms of shelf life and other practical things, about the same. There was a study of enclosures where under certain conditions boxes made with PVA developed a slight acid environment in the enclosure compared to using EVA. EVA is also considered reversible, which is a complex subject and not of practical use to most people. But I think PVA is nicer and easier to use than EVA, especially for production work. I used to stock both and would use the EVA for the enclosures and special work, and PVA for more standard work, which was the majority of my work. But when I stopped doing production work I couldn't justify to similar adhesives, so I just use EVA. But for almost everyone I would recommend a quality PVA designed for bookbinding, or working with paper, such as Jade 403. Especially for beginners I recommend PVA over EVA. In the US Jade R from Talas is EVA.
I would use the term "go off" as in a chemical reaction firming up or setting such as epoxy or polyester resin fiberglass laminations. From the context of your use, I'm assuming that you mean it to mean something like spoil, mold, turn rancid, having the water separate out of it, or dry so it can't be used?
@@DASBookbinding I should as well. I didn't mean this as an admonishment, only clarification. I've used some old paste that was firmed up and watery,similar to U.S. American sour cream or yogurt. I stirred this back up and mixed it with PVA. it still seemed to work ok but now am wondering if this "setting up" was the same as your "going off" and it was no longer usable? I know some things like alginate are short lived and will continue to degrade. I wasn't sure if the starch or wheat paste was the same.
@@TgWags69 No, I wasn't being clear, and want to be as clear as possible. I think I need to do another video on making paste where I incorporate the result of some research that was fairly recently published. When the paste "goes off" it is very obvious as often yeast has started fermentation and other bacteria are producing colourful blooms, and it is clearly not useable. Make a batch of wheat flour paste and keep it a week and you'll understand this process well. But even if you keep the paste and it has not been spoiled by biological activity it quickly "retrogrades" whereby the "
I think this may be a dialectal issue. In my experience, people from the UK and Australia tend to use "go off" as a synonym for "spoil," while people from the US and Canada tend to use it to mean "explode" or "begin a chain reaction." I feel like there's a difference between being careful with one's words and catering to people who speak a different language (given that "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy," which all four US, Canada, UK, and Australia most definitely have.)
@@tildessmoo In North American English is implies a reaction of some sort. However, in parts of the US, if something is "off" it can mean it's spoiled or starting to spoil. Like "That milk is off". I got what he meant though - it just took a second.
About Elmers School Glue: Sea Lemon did her own video on bookbinding glues a few years ago, ruclips.net/video/cvCQv0cHBWY/видео.html and at the 14:18 mark she briefly mentions that type of glue and says that it doesn't hold together very well for book construction.
@@DASBookbinding So, I commented on a different video - I fix/restore/repair game boxes (in reality, I only reinforce and straighten them in a non-destructive way - so the proper word is hard to find). Anyway, I said there that I use a particular type of glue rather than PVA because PVA is not considered permanent. Now I wonder if that was Elmer's rather than PVA. Basically, there is a glue that folks commonly use in box repair that after years turns brittle and lets loose. I have had to scrape it off old repairs. It's good in the sense that it allows a more permanent proper repair later - so you can be slap dash I suppose. But some things I have run into were well done but let loose because of the adhesive. At any rate - great video.
I requested him few days ago to make an video on adhesive ...and here I am at the start of the video...feeling humble..thank you for the video for all of us ...greatly appreciate your work
You are a one-man university! Deeply appreciated, sir. Best wishes 🐈⬛
These are the best videos ever made on the topic of bookbinding.
Great to hear from you! DAS
I’ve read lots of books on bookbinding, your clear explanation of the difference between glue and paste, then relating the historical and modern versions of each, made so much clear. Also, showing the different strokes in applying glue… thank you, you are incredibly generous with your knowledge.
I did use Elmer's (white) glue for my first few attempts at binding after figuring out that it's PVA. It seemed to me to work perfectly fine, with the caveat that it's slightly acidic due to acid being involved in the manufacturing process and not neutralized due to expense and the fact that, being meant for child use, no one really expects it to be used for anything meant to last a long time. (Incidentally, your explanation of acidity was slightly misleading*.) I've heard some people say that it doesn't hold very well, but I didn't have any problems with it. Having used better glues since, but still not being far removed from my Elmer's glue days, I think the reason for the disagreement is that Elmer's has a higher water content and thus takes longer to set. If you're used to glue setting in ten minutes, and everything falls apart when you check it in ten minutes, then it seems like it didn't work very well, but it holds fine for anything I've left to set overnight (and given how little time I had for binding when I started, that was pretty much everything, since I couldn't get back for the next step until the next day, generally).
On the other hand, the higher water content can play havoc on your materials when it comes to stretch and wrinkling (and sometimes running colors); until I improved my adhesive selection, I was driving myself crazy trying to figure out why my endpapers kept coming out terribly.
There's also the problem that the slight acidity is still enough to cause yellowing and brittleness eventually. I don't know exactly how quickly it becomes a problem (I've recently seen the book I bound 5 years ago for my sister, and it's still okay), but I wouldn't expect an Elmer's book to last a lifetime, let alone centuries.
One experiment I've been meaning to try, and that you might also be interested in if you end up playing around with Elmer's, is neutralizing the glue with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate/bicarbonate of soda), which is an easily-available, nontoxic, safe-to-handle base. Things I want to try include: is it better to mix with water first? Is it better to use exactly enough to neutralize or is an excess okay? If an excess is a problem, is it because of the baking soda specifically or because a basic glue is just as bad as an acidic glue? (To test that last one, I might ( _very_ carefully) try a ( _very_ sight) excess of lye instead, to get slightly basic glue without the baking soda.)
* Substances with differing pH that are still both acidic do not react _because of_ pH, though they may still react just like any combination of chemicals may or may not react if you don't know precisely what they are. The acidity of wood just means that you don't want to use a basic adhesive; the reasons for the high acidity of wood glue are more related to set time and the color and hardness of the glue after setting. If similarity in pH was the only issue, then Elmer's would be fine for non-archival paper, which is also slightly acidic. Instead, books are best made from acid-free archival paper and acid-free archival glue for the same reason: acids oxidize cellulose, making the material brittle and leaving behind carbon and hydrocarbons that stain the material. The reason acidic glues don't do this to wood is that the longer cellulose and lignen chains are more resistant to oxidation. More specifically, cellulose and lignen are both glucose polymers, and the acid can oxidize a glucose molecule at the end of the polymer chain, exposing another molecule to oxidize, etc.; The short paper fibers expose a lot of polymer ends to the acid, while wood generally only has a single layer of exposed ends on the plane on which it's been cut. Paper also suffers more structurally from even the same amount of oxidation due to both the shorter fibers and the fact that the material is (almost always) far thinner.
Yes, unfortunately I have to simplify, and in this case I'm caught out a bit. In the this context, where most papers are buffered, there will be a reaction with acid glue. In the past I have used the explanation of acidic wood glue having more "bite", but this simplification seemed worse, so I don't use it any more.
The idea that everything in bookbinding has to be completely "acid free", or neutral, or (usually over) buffered, I think is wrong. Using a slightly acid adhesive with quality paper should be fine (pH 6-7). My understanding is that oxidisation of the lignin, rather than the cellulose, is the larger component of paper yellowing. Most pure starch or flour pastes are slightly acid (maybe 6.5). Just about every pre 16th century book is an example of how slightly acid wheat flour paste has no impact on lignin free paper. The quality of the paper is as important as the adhesive. But most 21st century office, or quality (expensive) papers are lignin free, so we can focus on the adhesive.
Thanks for your detailed comments.
@@DASBookbinding As I mentioned in another comment, while I know more about chemistry than the average person, I'm no expert; I'd not heard that about lignen being more responsible for yellowing, though it sense, given both that lignen has more ends than cellulose and that the highest-quality paper tends to be cotton, linen, hemp, or otherwise not made from wood.
I would agree with you on principle, though, that over-buffering is probably a bad idea. A book in regular use is likely to come into contact with mild acids all the time, and the acid/base reaction leaving CO2 and various salts behind in the paper seems like a bad thing. Especially considering that CO2 in water becomes carbonic acid, which is what the buffering was meant to avoid.
I am beyond thrilled to have happened upon your video tutorials.
Wow you read my mind! I was literally googling the difference between eva and pva the day this video came out!
Ive never tried bookbinding but I am fascinated by your videos and love watching them as I find them to be very relaxing. You are very talented, keep up the good work.
Thank you for this explanation of adhesives. I enjoyed your work as you spoke but I would get lost in your project and to rewind to hear your talk!
Methyl cellulose, huh? And lo and behold, that's within reasonable prices at Mercado Libre (think South America's Ebay/Amazon), seems much more convenient than making my own paste, thanks for that bit of knowledge!
This is the second time for me to watch it again since my last watch almost half year ago. Still I have learnt a lot. Thousand thanks.
Methylcellulose is easiest to find as wallpaper glue where I live. It's usually sold under a brand name, but "small print" says methylcellulose, so it pays off to read it.
Just keep an eye out for additives. Wallpaper pastes often have lots of additives that can worry me. If it doesn't have any, or only a few that look safe, that is great.
@@DASBookbinding what are the most problematical additives and why?
Purely anecdotal here, but I've found that by making my corn starch paste partly with rubbing alcohol (say, 20% of the liquid), and then keeping it in an air-tight container in the refrigerator, extends its life considerably. It may tack and dry a bit more quickly than paste made with pure water, and possibly the adhesion strength is slightly different, but if so, I haven't noticed either. Likewise, I have no idea how it affects the pH level. The paste does seem to work as usual, though, and I've got a batch in the fridge I made months ago that's still good.
Isopropanol is neutral and the only reaction it has with water is dissolution, so it doesn't affect the pH directly; I don't think it causes any chemical reactions with starch that would create any acids or bases either, but I'm not exactly an expert.
Personally, I've found the same thing just from rinsing my jars with isopropanol, not drying them thoroughly so there's still a little bit left, (maybe a couple ml) , and putting my paste in while still hot (hence sterile). And storing it in the fridge, of course. Even after using some paste and putting it back, it's not moldy or runny after a couple of weeks. I haven't had paste last for months just because I use it up (more due to small batches than frequent use), so I don't know if it can remain unspoiled for that long, but I think 20% alcohol is probably overdoing it.
Of course the IPA is acting as a sterilising agent and thus less microbes are in the paste to start with, and thus the longer life. If you add during cooking most of it will boil off. It would have no impact on pH, which is probably slightly acid to start with, but not enough that is important for bookbinding or paper repair.
Thank you for the excellent video. You are generous with your knowledge.
Thank you for posting this very informative and helpful video.
Very informative and helpful--thank you so much. I especially liked the section on brushes and brushwork. Greetings from Canada.
I learnt a lot from this, thank you. For many years, and I am only a utilitarian bookbinder, I have a used wallpaper paste which has a cellulose and PVA content and an anti-microbial action. I will add some PVA depending on what I am doing. I have yet to do anything that justifies a leather binding.
Thank you for answering my question in this video. Looking forward to your next.
Thank you for such an excellent overview; it’s been very helpful.
so informative! It comes from all your professional experience. Thank you so much for sharing.
Thank you and I am looking forward to the next installment.
*Saturday with Darryn!* 😀👍
Adoro tu forma de enseñar y desarrollar. Sos genial. Muchas gracias, maestro.
So, if I understand well, I can get going with only PVA and Methyl Cellulose ?
As always that was very educational, I have been using Evostick PVA wood glue and it has been working for me, I like how it dries clear and it is flexible. have to put on covers on the solution manuals that i have binded , what i have done is cut several notches and placed short pieces of organic twine to hold the block together, all of my projects so far has been with A4. Thanks for making these vids they have been great help.
Glad you enjoy the videos. I'm not so keen on the wood glue. But if it works for you. I assume you mean double-fan binding for inserting the pieces of cord. I used to do this all the time, but now only do it when double-fan binding a thicker book, and then not always. I don't like damaging the edge of the paper. All the best, DAS
@@DASBookbinding Thanks again, yes you are you are correct in your assumption, the books are large ones both over 600 sheets of A4, an although I have not put covers on them, they have been taking much abuse. The books are actually vector calculus text and a physics solution manual, when the price of the Cal text drops to under $100 us dollars i have every intention of purchasing it additionally I keep both blocks away from sunlight and in plastic so i have not noticed any discoloration at this time roughly 2yrs that is. Gona get the edges trimmed before i put cover on them. Really liked your vids on the book casing. keep up the great vids .
Great video! Thank you for going so in depth!
Thank you for another magistral lesson on bookbinding.
I recently started using a new bookbinding PVA and I noticed that it dries faster than the one I've been using so far.
Now I found harder to back the books because after ploughing the edges and rounding the spine, the glue is already pretty set.
I wonder if I could use mix for this first thin layer of glue on the spine or that would it introduce too much humidity....
Regards
For the spine you really want the strength and would worry about this decreasing the strength. Maybe apply a bit of heat with a hair dryer to soften it for rounding?
Great video - very informative. Thanks!
For someone looking for a good PVA for beginning and hobby level: Anecdotally, from other crafting experience, mod podge furniture finish is incredibly difficult to reactivate once fully cured, compared to regular white glue or regular mod podge. As a multidisciplinary craftsperson, furniture finish mod podge is my go-to PVA, even for bookbinding.
My general rule of thumb is to avoid PVA designed to work with wood. Reversibility is considered a good thing in bookbinding. Thus why EVA has become popular.
@@DASBookbinding I was thinking more, when I lived on a more humid climate, original mod podge would be sticky on my projects years later. Yuck! Furniture finish mod podge is meant for paper and cloth.
I've used that polyester "paper" for book covers, because I don't have any way to print logos on leather or cloth, but the downside is that you can't paste down the edge flap. It just pops back up and if you score it enough to bend it breaks. I haven't quite figured out what to do about this. also the casing in hasn't gone that well because I've been trying to use pva instead of mix.
Maybe a low sheen art paper. I've been experimenting with this for covering and I'm liking the results.
Also, I tried to mix PVA and Yes Paste and *it did not work AT ALL* ! It actually curdled, which is not a good thing if you don't have whey to balance it.
This is probably going to horrify you but, as a beginner, I've been using wallpaper paste as the paste and it seems to work OK. None of my bindings are sufficiently old however to know how this will work out long term.
Many wallpaper pastes are methyl cellulose based. Just watch out for additives such as anti-fungals.
Extremely helpful!
Your videos are fantastic! I’m guessing that you are an educator….Possibly a Tertiary Educator. Your RUclips tutorials are so impressive because of your attention to detail and stunning books but also because of the wealth of knowledge that you have. I think that fact that you always reference your knowledge is wonderful and, it definitely makes your tutorials stand out from the crowd. I must say I never feel the need to refer to your references because I trust your research and expertise. Thank you 🙏 for sharing your passion with the world. Jaime from Melbourne. One more thing, how can I make bole? I can’t seem to find how. Thanks again 😊
Hi Jamie,
I have a complex background:) Are you coming to the bookbinding conference in Brisbane later in the year? There is a star lineup and for many people it is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to meet so many famous binders. And I'll be there too:)
qbg.org.au/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=579936&module_id=558941
Almost forgot. Bole is just the special clay which you buy from somewhere like The Gold Leaf Factory. I use the stuff sold in powdered form. You can buy it in solid form and grind yourself. Then mix a tiny bit (like 1/4 teaspoon) with your favourite binding agent like thin paste or watered down PVA, or my favourite gelatine. I show this in the edge gilding videos.
Darryn
Could one use Wheat Paste for everything??
You could make it work, but I wouldn't. Not the best adhesive for spine lining, for instance.
What is the reason wheat paste is used for leather rather than methyl cel? Is Methyl cel not suitable for leather? Would methyl cel/pva mix be suitable for working with leather?
MC is not as strong as adhesive as flour paste. And you want a strong adhesive for leather. Nothing worse than leather popping off the spine. For me it’s all or nothing when it comes to PVA and leather. Usually with mix you get the best of both when working with paper and board. With leather I think you get the worst of both in terms of moisture and tack.
Can you use water proof adhesives?
Like waterproof wood glue?
And most importantly do they work with water proof papers and boards?
I'd like to make some waterproof steifbroschuren for in the field.
Edit: as so basically no wood glue because of pH.
PVA is waterproof. This is why it can't be reversed. So any PVA aimed at paper craft should be fine. But not all PVAs are equal when it comes to sticking to stuff. I have found one that sticks to just about anything. But I don't have a retail source for it. Sorry.
I like the precision of your language, explaining what and how you are doing.
I have two questions:
1. What means DAS. In my native language, written with capital letters, it expresses THE (emphasis in, to be the only one). Since you do a great job, you may claim this article. (However, other also make nice videos about bookbinding)
2. Where did you get this cute little heatplate, shown in minute 2:44. I was looking in eBay and others, but couldn't find anything.
Keep on making such nice videos.
Thanks! DAS is just my initials. But because of my heritage it also a bit of a play on the definite article. I'm certainly not the only and would be very happy if someone made even better videos than me!
It took me awhile to find a mug warmer with a variable temperature.
cosori.com/products/original-automatic-coffee-warmer-co294-cw
Happy binding! DAS
question about preservative additives to home-made paste - do you know if other oils like eucalyptus, ravensara, tea tree, or cajeput would work? (after having infections after all four wisdom teeth extractions, i loathe cloves . . . 8/ ) Come to think, tea tree may do well . . .
I haven't tried them and I'd worry about potential negative effects due to the compounds in them - not just acidity. Clove oil has been used by bookbinders as a preservative for paste for at least 100 years so is well tested. But as I mention, I don't use it much myself any more. I'm just extremely careful about hygiene and treat the jars and utensils with boiling water and keep the paste in the fridge. Nothing stops flour paste going off quickly, but refined starch paste can be kept for many weeks. It does need straining and mixing again after storage.
How come when you glue something stics right away, when I glue, it doesnt stuck an less I hold for 2 min.
Different type of glue. All the PVA/EVAs I recommend in the video description should tack in 10 seconds or less. This is assuming normal bookbinding materials, not plastics or something unusual.
thank you, your video
For archival reasons, is EVA a better choice than PVA?
Does "mix" paste/PVA go bad as does pure wheat paste?
Yes it does. Sad face:(. This is why I mostly use PVA methyl cellulose mix.
I acquired an 1897 book "The Black Watch", a history of the regiment. It is an ex-library book, and they rebound the book. The text block appears as though it was sewn on a sewing machine (must have been quite a machine!) and the glued the cover directly to the spine. I want to rebind the book to look a bit more like the original, but how do I get the cover off the text block? What will take the glue off? I've looked online but can't find any solutions. Thank you.
I made a video about pulling a book for my Patreons. Here it is. It's not one of my usual full on videos.
ruclips.net/video/JfkNZWN3FsA/видео.html
The thing is that the 1897 book would have been bound with hide glue which would reactivate with water (using a MC poultice as I show in the video). But who knows what the rebind uses. Some of the modern synthetic adhesives are difficult to remove. Heat is usually the last resort (hair dryer). Try water first then heat.
Or keep it is as a great artefact of a library rebind. It won't be long before bindings like this will be prized.
@@DASBookbinding Thank you
A point of clarification: you say in the video that you would explain why you use EVA over PVA, but I never saw that explanation (I did check the transcript too). Is it simply a cost issue, as EVA supposedly has a longer shelf life than PVA (given it's otherwise similar properties to PVA)? Finding information on EVA for bookbinding can be tough; even the 'BPG Adhesives' section of Paper Conservation Catalog barely mentions it. Here in the US it's impossible to find for bookbinding, yet it's used in a lot of other industries (paint especially). Maybe 'BEVA D-8' is similar to the Evasol I've seen you use on your channel? The only other one I've seen that even contains EVA is 'Jade R', and it seems to be a PVA/EVA mix.
I'm sure I talk about it somewhere. I wonder where? The cost of a high quality PVA, such as Jade, and an EVA suitable for bookbinding are about the same price and in terms of shelf life and other practical things, about the same. There was a study of enclosures where under certain conditions boxes made with PVA developed a slight acid environment in the enclosure compared to using EVA. EVA is also considered reversible, which is a complex subject and not of practical use to most people. But I think PVA is nicer and easier to use than EVA, especially for production work. I used to stock both and would use the EVA for the enclosures and special work, and PVA for more standard work, which was the majority of my work. But when I stopped doing production work I couldn't justify to similar adhesives, so I just use EVA. But for almost everyone I would recommend a quality PVA designed for bookbinding, or working with paper, such as Jade 403. Especially for beginners I recommend PVA over EVA. In the US Jade R from Talas is EVA.
I would use the term "go off" as in a chemical reaction firming up or setting such as epoxy or polyester resin fiberglass laminations. From the context of your use, I'm assuming that you mean it to mean something like spoil, mold, turn rancid, having the water separate out of it, or dry so it can't be used?
You are correct. I might have to be more careful in my language. DAS
@@DASBookbinding I should as well. I didn't mean this as an admonishment, only clarification. I've used some old paste that was firmed up and watery,similar to U.S. American sour cream or yogurt. I stirred this back up and mixed it with PVA. it still seemed to work ok but now am wondering if this "setting up" was the same as your "going off" and it was no longer usable? I know some things like alginate are short lived and will continue to degrade. I wasn't sure if the starch or wheat paste was the same.
@@TgWags69 No, I wasn't being clear, and want to be as clear as possible. I think I need to do another video on making paste where I incorporate the result of some research that was fairly recently published. When the paste "goes off" it is very obvious as often yeast has started fermentation and other bacteria are producing colourful blooms, and it is clearly not useable. Make a batch of wheat flour paste and keep it a week and you'll understand this process well. But even if you keep the paste and it has not been spoiled by biological activity it quickly "retrogrades" whereby the "
I think this may be a dialectal issue. In my experience, people from the UK and Australia tend to use "go off" as a synonym for "spoil," while people from the US and Canada tend to use it to mean "explode" or "begin a chain reaction." I feel like there's a difference between being careful with one's words and catering to people who speak a different language (given that "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy," which all four US, Canada, UK, and Australia most definitely have.)
@@tildessmoo In North American English is implies a reaction of some sort. However, in parts of the US, if something is "off" it can mean it's spoiled or starting to spoil. Like "That milk is off". I got what he meant though - it just took a second.
Is your wheat flour paste whole wheat or white flour paste?
White is probably best. I'm not sure the addition of bran will help the health of a book:)
About Elmers School Glue: Sea Lemon did her own video on bookbinding glues a few years ago, ruclips.net/video/cvCQv0cHBWY/видео.html and at the 14:18 mark she briefly mentions that type of glue and says that it doesn't hold together very well for book construction.
Now I'm going to have to find some and try it.....
@@DASBookbinding Elmer's Glue All is better than regular Elmer's School Glue.
@@DASBookbinding So, I commented on a different video - I fix/restore/repair game boxes (in reality, I only reinforce and straighten them in a non-destructive way - so the proper word is hard to find). Anyway, I said there that I use a particular type of glue rather than PVA because PVA is not considered permanent. Now I wonder if that was Elmer's rather than PVA. Basically, there is a glue that folks commonly use in box repair that after years turns brittle and lets loose. I have had to scrape it off old repairs. It's good in the sense that it allows a more permanent proper repair later - so you can be slap dash I suppose. But some things I have run into were well done but let loose because of the adhesive. At any rate - great video.