How can it be fun to play against just 6 OP models.... it's so weird to see huge armies fight and then there are the ogor mawtribes with just a few models... looks like a match of Imperial knights vs any other army
I'd say for SURE make a video with the dice in a bag system. This is the type of play testing and feedback that can influence Aos 3.0. PLEASE DO AT LEAST ONE video of this variety!
I would definitively love to see the alternatives to the random game turn mechanic. It's one of the things keeping me out of Age of Sigmar. Also, I'm impressed how Ogres manage to ruin games in both Fantasy and Age of Sigmar. Really impressive faction design.
I have this discussion every time I play someone who is coming from 40K. I don't think the mechanic is great but the number of games I've played where the double turn has kept someone in the game out numbers the number of games it has allowed someone to steam roll. But again, that's just a lucky roll and having the armies more balanced between the two players. As someone just getting in to 40k from AoS the first turn advantage I see in all the batreps kinda turns me off lol
@@MichaelSmith-wg7cs I don't play 40k. But your point about keeping someone in game is actually I don't like. If you lost the game and require a double turn to stay relevant doesn't make for a fun game for me.
Its honestly not that bad you just have to set up for either possibility, The more I play Aos the more I realize that the random turn mechanic is just something you learn to play around. A learned skill for sure though and it certainly looks intimidating to new players.
It is a GW system, so You buy the modeles, not the rules. Want good and balanced rules, try other companies:) AoS i pretty entertaining as a game to watch and plays on Huge emotions, it is a good thing in my opinion.
@@MichaelSmith-wg7cs The problem with AoS is that you can have a fun, even game knowing all the while that a single double turn can completely ruin everything.
A friend and I were inquiring how to change a bit the turn structure of the game, be it by keeping turn order, using alternating phases (like first I do my hero phase, then him, then i move, etc), and this talk really helped to get some examples to look for. Would love to see a "homebrew" style age of sigmar game!
Thanks for this BatRep! I can no longer watch the Vault videos, but I'll continue to support you guys here! And I usually run a Huskard on a Thundertusk to take advantage of the Prayers and such. They can be a lot of fun! And I only run 2 Monsters in my Beastclaw list. :) I like mixed lists! Oh, and I am with Lukas: hate the double turn. We have played among my local group without it and it seems to be more fun.
I would love to see something like the chess activation system played! Might need to have it at the 1000pts mark but would be super interesting. Dice in the bag seems super hit or miss though. Would still watch but would prefer just straight up one goes then the other.
I would 100% like to see a batrep using alternating activation. But I can see some issues with regards to filming it and how long the video could be in length. Personally the double turn mechanic feels half-baked at the moment endless spells seemed to be the way GW attempted to give it something additional but now the only endless spells I see are the ones with either total control or faction immunity.
I think many wouldn't have a problem with seeing alternate experiments on turn systems for AoS, if it was in addition to the 2 batreps we get every week :)
I'd love to see a back and forth battle in either AoS or 40K, especially in AoS. Either way, I really want to see it explored and have some insight before trying it out with friends.
Would be cool to watch a 2v2 from you guys. I've played it a few times myself on AoS and loved it a lot. Gj with this battlereport! Mawtribes are fun to play : 3
I’ve played a few games where there are no turns, just battle rounds and phases. The players roll off to determine who starts and then alternate completing activations in the HP, alternate moving, shooting and so on
I've only played AoS and I love it. Double turns are the only rule I dislike in combination with big shoot lists. Otherwise i have tons of fun playing, doubles and all
After a round (you and your opponents turns equal one round), you roll to see who goes first in the next round. So you can go second in one round, then first in the next round. This means you get two turns in a row.
Speaking in general terms about game design, any mechanic that makes things more random makes the game fundamentally less strategic. This isn't always a bad thing but everyone who complains about double turns definitely has a legitimate grievance.
I'm new to the hobby and I'm curious where to find the most up to date stats for units. The manual that came with my slaanesh is very different from the warscroll in the official app. Thanks!
Great report again guys, unlucky for Luka but well played Josh. Love watching AoS reports as I dont get the chance to play anymore but seriously hate the double turn I feel it ruins the game but other AoS rules are great. Definitely up for watching the alternative rules if you guys have time. Keep the content flowing
I would absolutely love to see a few games using alternating activations methods, alternating activations has always been one the biggest upsides to skirmish games to me.
Really wished Luka would have murderlusted those wrathmongers to charge the stonehorn and wall off the other side so he was protected from the other stonehorn. Really quick to give up. Was really excited to see Khorne as well.
I am open to a game of draw the stone iniative. I think it's a good thing to do as a special episode, and maybe it should be a vault episode, but it would be worth trying once.
Marauders plus whip from a bloodstoker have a 35/36 chance to make a 12” charge which is pretty good. The re roll wounds will also massively buff their damage output. I really don’t think STD does it better once you factor in multiple ways to stack attacks, killing frenzy, whip etc marauders can become pretty insane in Khorne.
You have to declare the Reapers of Vengeance command ability at the beginning of the phase. But good battle! Try bringing a Unfettered Fury for safe pile-ins at 6" Luka!
The Ogor army has it's weakness es, namely Screens and magic/shooting. It is difficult to screen 6 Monsters. However, Luka's positioning on turn 1 was decisive in the end. He was out of Screens on turn 2, so he had to sacrifice the Bloodletters. If He had one more screen, he could have sent them in next turn and with 3 attack and double pile-in, they could have wrecked both monsters. He did not have enough Screens against this Kind of army. Beasts of Chaos would be really annoying for Beastclaw with All their Screens and all their possibilities for - saves adds up to that. Tzeentch will simply wreck them with magic and shooting, Cities can have enough Screens and shooting to deal with them as well. So if Luka had more Screens the game would have gone differently. Normally Khorne armies do not field that much Screens, only 2,3... Nevertheless, if the Ogor gets a double turn with All of his monsters still alive, it is usually game over.
@@B4H4D4 yes, he lost one third of his army, 2/6 models to the Bloodthirster. However, the Marauder mispositioning cost Luka a lot. One of his three Combat units totally wasted when they were in range of all buffs. Marauders with 4 attacks and +1 to Hit would have crippled the enemy army severely.
While I agree that the double turn has to go. That mistake what luca cost the game was putting the mauraders too close to the front line.Having these guys alive would have more done than a bloodthirster with 6 wounds left.
Taking them in the first place was more of a mistake, especially with flails which are atrocious and should never be taken, when you could take two units of 10 Reavers with -1 and attack buffs, that you WANT to die for tithe points. If you are playing armies like this that are gonna kill lots of units you might as well drown them in bodies to get sweet tithe points and relentlessly wear them down. A unit of 20 is 1 tithe whereas a 2 units of 10 are worth two, its a no brainer. Also the double turn thing is something you have to calculate into your game. If you bank on the double turn to win you games then you aren't playing the game properly, you need to manoeuvre yourself with the DT in mind. I'm not a massive fan of it myself but if your army is able to get tabled on a double turn then its probably not a good army and/or you've played it very wrong.
The Ogors seem to win every matchup I see you guys play, I think that dealing mortal wounds strait off the charge is a little to Op. it doesn’t give the opposing army a realistic chance of hitting back.
Sun Eater that’s what luka did and still didn’t work. Also what happens if you can’t charge or reach them first? I think that needs to be FAQ, there charge should just give them bonuses to there attack and wound rolls not shell out a ton of mortal wounds you can’t shrug off.
He didn't do it. He ran massive squads into blenders. If he had 4x10 man, instead of 40 man, those squads would have lived 4 times longer. The thundertusks also do less damage to smaller units. At like 7 points per model, they male for cheap screens. You also generate more tithe points this way. He could have also walled off areas with judgements, not place his back line in range to be piled into, used khorne marked warshrine and/or warriors. Though tbh, I would have liked to see a 5 bloodthirster Tyrants list vs the ogors. Would have been a lot more entertaining. At the end of the day though, Khorne is a mediocre army vs a good army.
I'm fairly new to AOS but I was wondering; Set aside any impractical effect of this BUT would a bigger playing area reduced the hit of the double turn? I mean more movement and positioning, less charging in the same turn (probably)... Just wondering. Forgive me if this question is too stupid or has been discussed previously. Happy wargaming!
I... guess ? But it would change just so many things. (Value of movement, ability to redeploy, etc...) However, playing around double turn is more about : - Building up your list to have the choice to take or give the first turn (And so, decide who have a chance to get the double) - Play with screens. You need to protect your important stuff. Or by getting two chaff units on the way, or with one bulky one that can withstand at least until the next fight phase. Basically, you should always play as if you would get double turn. If you do that, it's much less coinflip.
Tried chess-like activations for Warhammer and absolutely hated it. Takes too long, which was the deal-breaker. There where other problems as well: hard too keep track of which unit had actived (for MSU armies), and I never got a break to sit down and relax. This is usually not a problem in chess-like activation skirmish games, but in a game that took WAY too long to finish, it was very taxing. I would not recommend chess-like activation in Warhammer 40k or AoS.
Ogor raiders are worse in AoS than Knights ever were in 40k. In a game with less shooting they have good shooting and even snipes, terrifying charges, kill whatever they fight, decent save, and a FNP. On top of it they count as 10 for objectives. There is a guy in my area who plays them, and both my stormcast and my Skaven are borderline helpless.
I'd love to see new takes on rules. One of my biggest beefs with 40k and AoS is how they handle turns and if you were to do a "House Rule Special" I would watch the crap out of that.
And this shows, clearly, why double turns are not worth it as a game mechanic. EDIT (on post-game commentary): The dice in a bag is a wonderful idea. And the reason you likely think the 40k community would be MORE accepting of it, is because it is an older, established community that has "mostly" matured, has gone through 9 editions and simply has a wider base of opinions. Age of Sigmar divided a community after the death of WHFB, thus AoS hardened people FOR or AGAINST the mechanics of AoS (as mechanics were CORE debate for AoS vs WHFB) and therefore those playing AoS are far more defensive about any deviation from what is the status quo of AoS and how it is played.
Blood boil doesn’t require line of sight. I think you’re really missing out not having the judgements. To both block charge lanes and debuff and put out mortal wounds. Your error in turn 1 positioning was pretty catastrophic for your chances in this game.
I would ditch the marauders. They are not bad but their key selling point is that they can roll 9" charges well after they got teleported which ability we lack. I would also bring a unfeathered fury bloodthirster, maybe instead of the marauders, his 6" pile-in aura Command Ability is amazing. You can avoid 'I go you go' with daemons, the begining of fight phase mortal wound could have also been avoided with the thirster. Just run up, stand 5" away from the oponent with multiple daemon units and fight whenever you feel like it. This way you can fight with the thirster, and the letters without endangering any of them.
Random turn order is the only thing I wouldn’t change in AoS. I’m a couple of hundred games of AoS in now and it is one of the most interesting mechanics in wargaming. I have no interest in seeing AoS that isn’t AoS through any other activation system.
I think the Marauders are pretty good in Blades of Khorne, especially if you run them with a Warshrine since it gets to reroll its prayers. Realising I just suggested Luka should bring a warshrine in a Nurgle batrep a couple of weeks ago... maybe I just really like the warshrine.
Why take Marauders when you can take Reavers? They benefit more from the BoK buffs and die easier, which is exactly what you want in a BoK army...this Khorne list was just bad. Marauders are 20 for 160, just take Reavers for 70pts, take a ton of them and force your opponent to spread their dmg, if they do clear a 10 man, then you get Bloodtithe, taking large groups of +6 sv infantry is detrimental to the Khorne playstyle. Also Bloodletters need to be in a full Daemon list or left of summoning, they are so weak and are better used as a surprise unit with their mortal wounds. I just don't understand this list against OMT, it's so lacklustre I knew he'd lost before this even started. He needed big Mortal Wound output coupled with screening, this list does none of that well.
@@jorgeclarkson4639 Marauders are not screens. They are your hammer. They charge a million miles in whatever direction they want, drenched in every single buff you can imagine and they annihilate whatever they touch. Unlike Reavers they are on 25 millimeter bases, and with their obscene charging you can get most of a 40 man unit in to fight. Sure if the only thing you want out of your battleline is for it to be cheap and die, go for reavers. But it's not like anything Khorne Mortals got has the same output potential or speed that marauders do. I'd argue you probably use reavers to screen your marauders since ogres got 0 tricks. They charge the reavers, kill them, then on your turn your marauders clean them off the table. Ez pz.
haha yes!! I love how Luka acknowledged the hair. Hopefully by December the hair on the top of his head will grow out enough to finally cut that pink off.
I'm going to be running my Blades of Khorne thusly: Hexgorger skulls Skull altar Brass Stampede Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut 6 x Skullcrushers 6x Skullcrushers 6x Skullcrushers Gore Pilgrims 1x Bloodsecrator 2x Priests 1x 5 Blood Warriors 2x 10 Bloodreavers Running against Ogor, Orruk, and Nurgle armies. Figure the Bloodcrushers will smash something turn 1 or 2 and then die spectacularly.
Is there a particular reason that you guys don't play Legion on the channel if you're such fans of it? Just like I saw Vito post some beautiful DC Miniatures on the Instagram page. Is it just concern about futzing with the algorithm or MWG brand?
I love AofS but I'm really not a fan of the double turn. 1/3 of the time It can make a lopsided game more interesting by robbing a player of the victory that they had earned and the other 2/3 of the time it will ruin the balance of an exciting even game or it will turn a lopsided game into a massacre. The full army activation system is what makes both 40k and AofS less fun to play. A double turn mechanic just makes this worse. It's more of a problem in 40k as there is more shooting while in AofS close combat is king and you alternate that so it's less likely to be totally one-sided. In my opinion AofS would be better with no double turn mechanic and 40k would be better with an activation system similar to Kill Team. Roll off to see who chooses to go first or second. The player that goes first moves all their units. The other player then does the same. The player that moved first then gets to activate one unit. That unit shoots and assaults. Then it's the other player's turn to activate a unit and so on. This way you don't get those games where one side is crippled and the game is decided before that side even gets a turn (which seems to happen about 25% of the time in 40k).
You have to play a bit more defensively if you are facing a potential double. Ideally you want to give your opponent the double when they won't be able to utilize it. The current khorne book is mediocre though.
I enjoyed your brainstormin in the end. And i used to play Fantasy Warhammer 20 odd years ago. And i cant see myself going back to play AoS, ever. Its fun to watch you guys smash each other, but i wont dump 500-1000$ in a army unless they change the core rules for it to make it more fun and fair.
I love Age of Sigmar (5 armies and counting), really like 40k (2 armies and counting)... but yeah. Star Wars Legion system is just way better. I mean, I only really have one army, but each time I play the game Im like, yeah this is way better. More strategic, way less random, and more though out. I guess sigmar and 40 are more for just the fun, but then the competitive scene is pretty hardcore. But yeah to this day, I strongly believe Legion is just way better.
*Slaughterpriest charging in*
Raiders: You can’t defeat us.
Slaughterpriest: I know, but he can.
*BLOODTHIRSTER FROM BEHIND*
@Alien Alien cause men in 2020 lol
WE NEVER GET TIRED OF THE BLADES OF KHONRE!! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
Milk for the Khorne flakes.
It's because they don't know how to play them lmao
Does khorne ever win? In almost every batrep khorne gets completely killed turn 2 or 3
@@olafolafsson2755 it's because they have no idea how to play them effectively
@@LoRdInTeRwEbS what are they doing Wrong?
How can it be fun to play against just 6 OP models.... it's so weird to see huge armies fight and then there are the ogor mawtribes with just a few models... looks like a match of Imperial knights vs any other army
I'd say for SURE make a video with the dice in a bag system. This is the type of play testing and feedback that can influence Aos 3.0. PLEASE DO AT LEAST ONE video of this variety!
I would definitively love to see the alternatives to the random game turn mechanic. It's one of the things keeping me out of Age of Sigmar.
Also, I'm impressed how Ogres manage to ruin games in both Fantasy and Age of Sigmar. Really impressive faction design.
I have this discussion every time I play someone who is coming from 40K. I don't think the mechanic is great but the number of games I've played where the double turn has kept someone in the game out numbers the number of games it has allowed someone to steam roll. But again, that's just a lucky roll and having the armies more balanced between the two players. As someone just getting in to 40k from AoS the first turn advantage I see in all the batreps kinda turns me off lol
@@MichaelSmith-wg7cs I don't play 40k. But your point about keeping someone in game is actually I don't like. If you lost the game and require a double turn to stay relevant doesn't make for a fun game for me.
Its honestly not that bad you just have to set up for either possibility, The more I play Aos the more I realize that the random turn mechanic is just something you learn to play around. A learned skill for sure though and it certainly looks intimidating to new players.
It is a GW system, so You buy the modeles, not the rules. Want good and balanced rules, try other companies:) AoS i pretty entertaining as a game to watch and plays on Huge emotions, it is a good thing in my opinion.
@@MichaelSmith-wg7cs The problem with AoS is that you can have a fun, even game knowing all the while that a single double turn can completely ruin everything.
Innovation is the requirement for progress! Try new things! Especially for those of us that want to play test but don't have the resources!
I would love to see the many adventures of Fritz, the unfortunate.
Always love the commentary with you 2, the self deprecating banter is great fun to listen to now matter how the game is going.
Slaughter priest blood boil doesn’t require line of sight. Awesome report. Happy to see Khorne on your table again
Feels like the biggest gotcha moment in MWG history with the stonehorns 2” reach. Let the man move his models back an inch dammit!!!
Agreed. Way to make an uphill battle even tougher. But it is Josh playing so who’s surprised.
A friend and I were inquiring how to change a bit the turn structure of the game, be it by keeping turn order, using alternating phases (like first I do my hero phase, then him, then i move, etc), and this talk really helped to get some examples to look for. Would love to see a "homebrew" style age of sigmar game!
This two timing wizard who keeps trying these failing business ventures needs his own narrative campaign!
Thanks for this BatRep! I can no longer watch the Vault videos, but I'll continue to support you guys here! And I usually run a Huskard on a Thundertusk to take advantage of the Prayers and such. They can be a lot of fun! And I only run 2 Monsters in my Beastclaw list. :) I like mixed lists!
Oh, and I am with Lukas: hate the double turn. We have played among my local group without it and it seems to be more fun.
I would love to see something like the chess activation system played! Might need to have it at the 1000pts mark but would be super interesting. Dice in the bag seems super hit or miss though. Would still watch but would prefer just straight up one goes then the other.
Would love to see an alternating activation style mechanic. As someone who plays 30k, and konflict 47, it's the crossover I never knew I needed.
Even the poor amusement park owner isn't safe in Warhammer. Hang in there Fritz!
I wouldn't mind see an alternating activation sequence or something different than the double turn.
Leave none alive from Reapers of vengeance has to be used at the start of the combat phase.
I think luka with the short beard is pretty hot, ngl
Tough game. 6 stonehorns is a little much honestly. Blades of khorne have a similar damage potential but nowhere near the level of tankiness. Ez dub
@Alec Holland AND have better ranged damage AND can move faster AND steal objectives AND destroy entire units before the fight phase
The trick with facing Stonehorns is to chip them with Mortal Wounds. Once they start charting, they chart hard
@@BR4IN1N4J4R ranged mortal wounds...not exactly something a blades of khorne army has, is it
Tyrants of Blood + Halo of Blood has a better than 60% chance against Beastclaw to be fair
YES TO ALTERNATIVE TURN MECHANIC VIDEOS! :D
I would 100% like to see a batrep using alternating activation. But I can see some issues with regards to filming it and how long the video could be in length.
Personally the double turn mechanic feels half-baked at the moment endless spells seemed to be the way GW attempted to give it something additional but now the only endless spells I see are the ones with either total control or faction immunity.
I think many wouldn't have a problem with seeing alternate experiments on turn systems for AoS, if it was in addition to the 2 batreps we get every week :)
I'd love to see a back and forth battle in either AoS or 40K, especially in AoS. Either way, I really want to see it explored and have some insight before trying it out with friends.
Definitely play a game with alternating activations. Set it to 1k or 1250 or something so it finishes in time
Would be cool to watch a 2v2 from you guys. I've played it a few times myself on AoS and loved it a lot.
Gj with this battlereport! Mawtribes are fun to play : 3
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULL FOR THE SKULL THRONE! Love it!
Biggggg Khorne turn 2. That was surprisingly a very fun bat rep to watch!
I’ve played a few games where there are no turns, just battle rounds and phases. The players roll off to determine who starts and then alternate completing activations in the HP, alternate moving, shooting and so on
I love the Idea of making an AoS report with the turn rules from Blor Action... awesome plan
I'd love to see a 2v2!
I've only played AoS and I love it. Double turns are the only rule I dislike in combination with big shoot lists. Otherwise i have tons of fun playing, doubles and all
What are double turns? Am very new
After a round (you and your opponents turns equal one round), you roll to see who goes first in the next round.
So you can go second in one round, then first in the next round. This means you get two turns in a row.
Speaking in general terms about game design, any mechanic that makes things more random makes the game fundamentally less strategic. This isn't always a bad thing but everyone who complains about double turns definitely has a legitimate grievance.
Love the battle report as always. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD. SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE
It would be cool to see a dice in the bag! Would be super cool!
I'm new to the hobby and I'm curious where to find the most up to date stats for units. The manual that came with my slaanesh is very different from the warscroll in the official app. Thanks!
The official app azyr is curently up to date with all the updated warscroll. So the app is a go to.
@@coldshoulder8550 thanks!! Looks like slaanesh got some nerfs then haha
Great report again guys, unlucky for Luka but well played Josh. Love watching AoS reports as I dont get the chance to play anymore but seriously hate the double turn I feel it ruins the game but other AoS rules are great. Definitely up for watching the alternative rules if you guys have time. Keep the content flowing
I would love an alternating activation batrep! Imo that would totally fix 40k for me too ;D
I would absolutely love to see a few games using alternating activations methods, alternating activations has always been one the biggest upsides to skirmish games to me.
Luka blood boil doesnt require los as a heads up. Nice report guys!
I'd be interested in watching that house rule setup game!
I really wanna see a bat rep of the (kinda) all thundertusk list vs the (kinda) all stegadon list
Really wished Luka would have murderlusted those wrathmongers to charge the stonehorn and wall off the other side so he was protected from the other stonehorn.
Really quick to give up. Was really excited to see Khorne as well.
I am open to a game of draw the stone iniative. I think it's a good thing to do as a special episode, and maybe it should be a vault episode, but it would be worth trying once.
If i give you a new way to play without the double turn would you guys try it out??
Yes please show us that game! Such an interesting idea!
if they get rid of the double turn they need to change who goes first though, all that is tied into it as well
I would 100% like to see some house rule turn bat reps
I think you look fantastic Luka, excellent haircut. Love the beard
*After Chat Response*
I'm a fan of bolt actions activation and would be interesting to see how that would work with AoS
Marauders plus whip from a bloodstoker have a 35/36 chance to make a 12” charge which is pretty good. The re roll wounds will also massively buff their damage output. I really don’t think STD does it better once you factor in multiple ways to stack attacks, killing frenzy, whip etc marauders can become pretty insane in Khorne.
You have to declare the Reapers of Vengeance command ability at the beginning of the phase. But good battle! Try bringing a Unfettered Fury for safe pile-ins at 6" Luka!
Woot! Love the reports! First! You need to play more Slaves to Darkness!
I'd love to see the alternate activation for AOS... :)
I bet those beastclaw raiders enjoy a nice picnic basket ey Boo Boo?
is it me or are the Ogres OP by a lot?
The list is good at killing but bad at playing objectives.
The Ogor army has it's weakness es, namely Screens and magic/shooting. It is difficult to screen 6 Monsters. However, Luka's positioning on turn 1 was decisive in the end.
He was out of Screens on turn 2, so he had to sacrifice the Bloodletters. If He had one more screen, he could have sent them in next turn and with 3 attack and double pile-in, they could have wrecked both monsters.
He did not have enough Screens against this Kind of army. Beasts of Chaos would be really annoying for Beastclaw with All their Screens and all their possibilities for - saves adds up to that.
Tzeentch will simply wreck them with magic and shooting, Cities can have enough Screens and shooting to deal with them as well.
So if Luka had more Screens the game would have gone differently. Normally Khorne armies do not field that much Screens, only 2,3...
Nevertheless, if the Ogor gets a double turn with All of his monsters still alive, it is usually game over.
@@beartrappr2841 bad at playing objectives? each model counted as 10 models? or something like that. seems good to me.
@@saschakling2906 did he even lose a model? lol
@@B4H4D4 yes, he lost one third of his army, 2/6 models to the Bloodthirster. However, the Marauder mispositioning cost Luka a lot. One of his three Combat units totally wasted when they were in range of all buffs. Marauders with 4 attacks and +1 to Hit would have crippled the enemy army severely.
I'm keen to see the house rules you're talking about!
Honestly I would be really interested to see that!
It's a fact, Stonehorns are just no fun to play against. Even when BCR was underpowered, the SH was like this giant null zone.
While I agree that the double turn has to go. That mistake what luca cost the game was putting the mauraders too close to the front line.Having these guys alive would have more done than a bloodthirster with 6 wounds left.
Taking them in the first place was more of a mistake, especially with flails which are atrocious and should never be taken, when you could take two units of 10 Reavers with -1 and attack buffs, that you WANT to die for tithe points. If you are playing armies like this that are gonna kill lots of units you might as well drown them in bodies to get sweet tithe points and relentlessly wear them down. A unit of 20 is 1 tithe whereas a 2 units of 10 are worth two, its a no brainer.
Also the double turn thing is something you have to calculate into your game. If you bank on the double turn to win you games then you aren't playing the game properly, you need to manoeuvre yourself with the DT in mind. I'm not a massive fan of it myself but if your army is able to get tabled on a double turn then its probably not a good army and/or you've played it very wrong.
? when the Blood thister charge you roll a dice a 4 mortal what ability is this ????
The Ogors seem to win every matchup I see you guys play, I think that dealing mortal wounds strait off the charge is a little to Op. it doesn’t give the opposing army a realistic chance of hitting back.
Take a couple cheap, throw away units to walk in front of you.
Otherwise, charge them first.
Sun Eater that’s what luka did and still didn’t work. Also what happens if you can’t charge or reach them first? I think that needs to be FAQ, there charge should just give them bonuses to there attack and wound rolls not shell out a ton of mortal wounds you can’t shrug off.
He didn't do it. He ran massive squads into blenders.
If he had 4x10 man, instead of 40 man, those squads would have lived 4 times longer. The thundertusks also do less damage to smaller units.
At like 7 points per model, they male for cheap screens.
You also generate more tithe points this way.
He could have also walled off areas with judgements, not place his back line in range to be piled into, used khorne marked warshrine and/or warriors.
Though tbh, I would have liked to see a 5 bloodthirster Tyrants list vs the ogors. Would have been a lot more entertaining. At the end of the day though, Khorne is a mediocre army vs a good army.
Some of this is unit choice. Khorne skullcrushers and bloodcrushers do damage on the charge too. Each model rolls a dice and on a 2+ does d3mw.
Ogors is far from OP. Sun eater is definitely right Chaffe walls and counter charges wins games in AoS when it’s melee army v. melee army 👍
I'm fairly new to AOS but I was wondering; Set aside any impractical effect of this BUT would a bigger playing area reduced the hit of the double turn? I mean more movement and positioning, less charging in the same turn (probably)... Just wondering. Forgive me if this question is too stupid or has been discussed previously. Happy wargaming!
I... guess ? But it would change just so many things. (Value of movement, ability to redeploy, etc...)
However, playing around double turn is more about :
- Building up your list to have the choice to take or give the first turn (And so, decide who have a chance to get the double)
- Play with screens. You need to protect your important stuff. Or by getting two chaff units on the way, or with one bulky one that can withstand at least until the next fight phase.
Basically, you should always play as if you would get double turn. If you do that, it's much less coinflip.
Honestly chaos marauders are one of the best horde infantry in AoS, I love the mercenaries rule in ghb 2019.
Tried chess-like activations for Warhammer and absolutely hated it. Takes too long, which was the deal-breaker. There where other problems as well: hard too keep track of which unit had actived (for MSU armies), and I never got a break to sit down and relax. This is usually not a problem in chess-like activation skirmish games, but in a game that took WAY too long to finish, it was very taxing. I would not recommend chess-like activation in Warhammer 40k or AoS.
Ogor raiders are worse in AoS than Knights ever were in 40k. In a game with less shooting they have good shooting and even snipes, terrifying charges, kill whatever they fight, decent save, and a FNP.
On top of it they count as 10 for objectives.
There is a guy in my area who plays them, and both my stormcast and my Skaven are borderline helpless.
Know that feeling, we stopped play with our ogre guy. Dont get me wrong he's very friendly dude, but its so frustating.
Why don’t I ever see you guys using Khorgoraths for the Blades Of Khorne?
Underrated unit. I'd like to see them more in lists myself.
I'd love to see new takes on rules. One of my biggest beefs with 40k and AoS is how they handle turns and if you were to do a "House Rule Special" I would watch the crap out of that.
me and a buddy tried alternating activations and it was ok. Made the game take a lot longer but u dont get the break from their movement phase
Bolt action?
And this shows, clearly, why double turns are not worth it as a game mechanic.
EDIT (on post-game commentary): The dice in a bag is a wonderful idea.
And the reason you likely think the 40k community would be MORE accepting of it, is because it is an older, established community that has "mostly" matured, has gone through 9 editions and simply has a wider base of opinions. Age of Sigmar divided a community after the death of WHFB, thus AoS hardened people FOR or AGAINST the mechanics of AoS (as mechanics were CORE debate for AoS vs WHFB) and therefore those playing AoS are far more defensive about any deviation from what is the status quo of AoS and how it is played.
One question, There is a limit of 0/4 behemot in 2000 points army list, but ogor player have 6 behemot? 6/4 is possible? Thanks.
With this general the Beastriders lose Behemoth and gain Battleline
How many points do they play with
Usually 2K
Blood boil doesn’t require line of sight. I think you’re really missing out not having the judgements. To both block charge lanes and debuff and put out mortal wounds.
Your error in turn 1 positioning was pretty catastrophic for your chances in this game.
I agree with Luka about the double turn. Has anyone else played Chronopia?
Josh needs to write all the narratives for every game.
i would love to see that type of game
I would ditch the marauders. They are not bad but their key selling point is that they can roll 9" charges well after they got teleported which ability we lack. I would also bring a unfeathered fury bloodthirster, maybe instead of the marauders, his 6" pile-in aura Command Ability is amazing. You can avoid 'I go you go' with daemons, the begining of fight phase mortal wound could have also been avoided with the thirster. Just run up, stand 5" away from the oponent with multiple daemon units and fight whenever you feel like it. This way you can fight with the thirster, and the letters without endangering any of them.
Carry Hard!
Random turn order is the only thing I wouldn’t change in AoS. I’m a couple of hundred games of AoS in now and it is one of the most interesting mechanics in wargaming. I have no interest in seeing AoS that isn’t AoS through any other activation system.
Noticed a bunch of broken unit cohesion
A very fun game. Too bad you didn't fight to the end with all those Blood Tithe Points.
I think the Marauders are pretty good in Blades of Khorne, especially if you run them with a Warshrine since it gets to reroll its prayers.
Realising I just suggested Luka should bring a warshrine in a Nurgle batrep a couple of weeks ago... maybe I just really like the warshrine.
Why take Marauders when you can take Reavers? They benefit more from the BoK buffs and die easier, which is exactly what you want in a BoK army...this Khorne list was just bad. Marauders are 20 for 160, just take Reavers for 70pts, take a ton of them and force your opponent to spread their dmg, if they do clear a 10 man, then you get Bloodtithe, taking large groups of +6 sv infantry is detrimental to the Khorne playstyle.
Also Bloodletters need to be in a full Daemon list or left of summoning, they are so weak and are better used as a surprise unit with their mortal wounds. I just don't understand this list against OMT, it's so lacklustre I knew he'd lost before this even started. He needed big Mortal Wound output coupled with screening, this list does none of that well.
@@jorgeclarkson4639 Marauders are not screens. They are your hammer. They charge a million miles in whatever direction they want, drenched in every single buff you can imagine and they annihilate whatever they touch. Unlike Reavers they are on 25 millimeter bases, and with their obscene charging you can get most of a 40 man unit in to fight.
Sure if the only thing you want out of your battleline is for it to be cheap and die, go for reavers. But it's not like anything Khorne Mortals got has the same output potential or speed that marauders do. I'd argue you probably use reavers to screen your marauders since ogres got 0 tricks. They charge the reavers, kill them, then on your turn your marauders clean them off the table. Ez pz.
yes to the dice in bag style!!!!!
The Vault link is missing. Now I gotta type in the web address and everything! ;P
haha yes!! I love how Luka acknowledged the hair. Hopefully by December the hair on the top of his head will grow out enough to finally cut that pink off.
Dude your hair looks sick
Dr. Murder?
I'm going to be running my Blades of Khorne thusly:
Hexgorger skulls
Skull altar
Brass Stampede
Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut
6 x Skullcrushers
6x Skullcrushers
6x Skullcrushers
Gore Pilgrims
1x Bloodsecrator
2x Priests
1x 5 Blood Warriors
2x 10 Bloodreavers
Running against Ogor, Orruk, and Nurgle armies. Figure the Bloodcrushers will smash something turn 1 or 2 and then die spectacularly.
no pink beard :( will miss it :(
40K would benefit from alternate activations
His hair looks better this way
thank god he cut his hair
Even if there are armies they are playing that I dont like, if luka is in the bat rep, you better believe I'm watching the whole thing
Love your batreps
Expierenced these BCR by my self . Its awful. Horde based lists are not as good as they think .
Love the explainations
Hey, do you mean raiders list is awful?
Lol. Luka trying hard not to say meta! 😊
Is there a particular reason that you guys don't play Legion on the channel if you're such fans of it? Just like I saw Vito post some beautiful DC Miniatures on the Instagram page.
Is it just concern about futzing with the algorithm or MWG brand?
Only so much time to film games and there is no wiggle room for extra content right now
Where were the Judgements of Khorne?? That's why Khorne is good
I love AofS but I'm really not a fan of the double turn. 1/3 of the time It can make a lopsided game more interesting by robbing a player of the victory that they had earned and the other 2/3 of the time it will ruin the balance of an exciting even game or it will turn a lopsided game into a massacre. The full army activation system is what makes both 40k and AofS less fun to play. A double turn mechanic just makes this worse.
It's more of a problem in 40k as there is more shooting while in AofS close combat is king and you alternate that so it's less likely to be totally one-sided.
In my opinion AofS would be better with no double turn mechanic and 40k would be better with an activation system similar to Kill Team. Roll off to see who chooses to go first or second. The player that goes first moves all their units. The other player then does the same. The player that moved first then gets to activate one unit. That unit shoots and assaults. Then it's the other player's turn to activate a unit and so on. This way you don't get those games where one side is crippled and the game is decided before that side even gets a turn (which seems to happen about 25% of the time in 40k).
You have to play a bit more defensively if you are facing a potential double. Ideally you want to give your opponent the double when they won't be able to utilize it. The current khorne book is mediocre though.
I enjoyed your brainstormin in the end. And i used to play Fantasy Warhammer 20 odd years ago. And i cant see myself going back to play AoS, ever. Its fun to watch you guys smash each other, but i wont dump 500-1000$ in a army unless they change the core rules for it to make it more fun and fair.
The pink fade looks good on you
I love Age of Sigmar (5 armies and counting), really like 40k (2 armies and counting)... but yeah. Star Wars Legion system is just way better. I mean, I only really have one army, but each time I play the game Im like, yeah this is way better. More strategic, way less random, and more though out. I guess sigmar and 40 are more for just the fun, but then the competitive scene is pretty hardcore. But yeah to this day, I strongly believe Legion is just way better.