WC3 - CC Masters - Q2 - Grand Final: [UD] Happy vs. TH000 [HU]
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- 🏆 CC Masters Qualifier 2
👉 Playlist: • CC Masters - Qualifier 2
Grand Final
[UD] Happy vs. TH000 [HU]
Cast by: Remo
Date: December 23, 2019
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#warcraft3 #back2warcraft #CCMasters
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Very VERY good commentary
you explain the builds
you show the last hit and denies
good UI too
Very nice man for real
Thank you so much for posting replays with commentaries!
Fantastic! Thank you Back2Warcraft!
Best commentary! Really enjoyed it!
Tavern earns tons of money on game 4
Best comment ever 😂
AGAIN! Those two will never end!!
Haha its so funny when u see comments like: TH should play like this or like that vs Happy. People who are WATCHING wc3 for few hours a week are talking how should TH play, maybe the best human player ever to play this game!
"He's got the one tank with 6 armour, so he's pretty tanky" -Remo
xD
Congrats bro
@back2warcraft ich kommentiere mal auf Deutsch damit die anderen nicht deutschen das nicht mitbekommen. Bei Minute 47:20 sagst du, dass jemand geklingelt hat und du kurz weg musst. Du hast aber ausversehen das falsche Mikrofon gemutet und man hört wie du „Wasser fließen lässt“ 😂😂 ich konnte einfach nicht mehr vor lachen und das ganze dann noch mit dem Satz „ der Typ hat einfach nicht aufgehört zu klingeln“ perfekt gemacht. Hahaha du bist der beste remo. Made my day
When tanks lose, another angel gets his wings.
Go undead happy ur the Man U make us ud players proud!
That 4th game tho.. my goodness.
Tang ina mo
It was actually not an over-extension into the human base. It was just multiple execution/micro mistakes stacked together.
If you watch closely, Happy's two destroyers were ready to kill the arcane tower, but then he moved them to where the 2 water eles are, intention to devour, misses, then orders the destroyers back. That lost a ton of time, allowing the arcane tower to drain way too much mana.
Had the destroyers, with mana, been more committed to kill the arcane, the DK would have more mana to save the Lich, and Happy can tp out while dealing massive damage.
After the multiple combined screw ups in TH000's main, Happy was way too behind to come back.
greatest games -_- ) thanks remo ) what a 3rd game crazy ) i ask HOW its possible )
When people complain about Happy winning and call for nerf when he is one of only two prominent undead players.... Pls check tournament history and races..
very true...
It is just the nature of things. If Happy was NE, people would be calling for NE nerfs. If he was HU, same thing. Well, maybe not Orc. Depends if he plays Blademaster or not :p
@@ilevitatecs2 ladder doesn't equate to tournament performance... The strength of races differ relative to the level of play etc etc.. Stay on the carriage mate. Happy is a unique player with amazing micro and accuracy.
It's just this very matchup. You simply can't win with HU against UD on a top tier level. Happy lost both of his heroes in Map4 and still was close to a win. That's not balanced.
Yeah, UD < Orc and UD vs. Ne is quite balanced. But UD >> HU.
@@MagicRabbit Ne is quite balanced ? So why Hu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ne then ?
1:23:25
well, that happens especially with high latency as Happy has, but this situation definitely costed him the game. However, i don't think it must be necessary a mistake to go inside of the base as Remo said. Just move the lich further towards gold mine to get more time for destroyers to take out the footies, there is bottle neck in the base also for human, so no full firepower is used.
I think ping done this to him
ping 200, no chance against Happy if he plays LAN
hail our emperor
That throw on AZ though... xD
Yeah, when you see something like that you know only hero kills can save it
Disclaimer: I'm not Human (I even was playing UD when I played). But this MU is fundamentally broken. The main issue is that you can't hard counter fiends. No matter what Human builds you can't fight the UD in open field.
The reason is simple: UD-Aura. You will never be able to catch fiends with all the slow and speed that a UD with decent micro can provide. Imagine you are building mass Hyppos vs. WindRiders and even though the Orc doesn't build a single BatRider you lose every battle. That's the state of HU vs. UD. Knights simply get countered by the heroes of UD, Breakers don't have the damage and you don't have any option beside that to fight.
The problem is that any army you can make as human is countered by UD-Heroes. If you go Rifle / Mortar you lose vs Coil / Nova / Impale. If you turtle with Knights you lose vs Coil / Nova / RoF. The other options are countered by UD-Units you have anyway in your composition. You make air - UD has fiends. You make casters - UD has Destros. UD can simply always go Fiends / Statues and just has to make small adjustments to secure the win. UD has a big strategic advantage above HU.
And that also is the reason why UD's struggle with Orc. Orc has TC with a great catch and Raiders. (NE has Dryads at least.) HU has nothing beside Thunderbolt and Clap. With Orc you take out the speed advantage of UD which makes it impossible to play out the kiting game with which UD is wrecking HU.
@@amai2307 Hmm let me think. Who I will believe? Happy who agrees that Human is his best MU? Th000 and Infi who race switch if they face UD? The majority of Human players who say that UD is the hardest MU? Or amai who says otherwise? Though question.
@@amai2307 Why are you lying?
So true. It’s just it’s easy enough for UD just go for same tech fiend routinely and get into the same upper hand every stage of the game
1:23:27 Bet he wasn't HAPPY about that
they're superhuman
Crazy game 4
The gyros need a buff like higher damage and armor...
Happy is by far and away the best player currently. Beating all races NE (Moon), OR (Grubby) and now HU (TH000) with ease.
He doesnt wins Always against lyn and lawliet
lol not really Undead has a pretty big advantage over Human statistically anyways
30% win rate against fly....not mention lyn.
@@TheSKInsomnia Lol Philmaraldo was never a top UD player. I think you are missing TED who Grubby also used to beat, but OR has always had the advantage over UD.
@@TheSKInsomnia Grubby is playing WC3 almost everyday and doesn't win vs. Happy. But yeah he must be GOAT.
Undead is just stupid af. 2 heroes take on entire team.
How could anyone who watches this not see that UD is way OP vs HU
so having a unit with building armor, which can take an enemy great hall down with 10 shots or something, is not op?
@@Fenixias What you might not understand is that none of the human players want to play tanks. The truth of the matter is that Human cant win army vs army so tanks are a last resort. When facing a top Undead they are the only option 80% of the time.
But I do agree, tanks are very lame. Wish there were other ways.
TH000 seems to be too passive when playing with Happy
Reminds me of 120 playing that wgl final against th, he just threw the game playing so passively.
Happy seems to have everything under control and th cant see a way to solve happy's moves. :s
It's because Hu just can't handle Un in a man fight. Let's be real, there are some big imbalances in this game most notable Un>Hu and Hu>Ne. And this isn't to discredit Happy as I think him, Th000, Lyn, and Moon are my top 4 players. But I think Happy>Th000 and Th000>Moon if they are matched up because of race advantages.
There is a better way to beat Happy. Sok used mass riflemen with a couple of priests against WFZ, which WFZ lost. I tried that strategy and easily destroyed the undead.
@@kisungyoon979 Rifles/priests uses so much resources for tier/building upgrades. The UD will be able to mass a bigger army and control the map. I'm not saying you can't win. But if all things are equal, ie: skill lvl and players aren't making mistakes, the UD has a clear advantage. That's why top tier HU players like Th000 and Infi resort to using tanks (HU players don't like using it either), or sometimes change race against Undead. Matchup is unfavorable.
@@kisungyoon979 Rifles/Priests get destroyed by Coil/Nova/Impale + Fiends/Aboms/2 statues
What is the "right click" attack you are referring to. Is this related to animation canceling and improving attack rate? I heard you reference this "right click" a few times. Just curious if there is an exploit to be had here, haha.
for a laymen, the translation would be akin to "target". right clicking something means you're going after it specifically, instead of just attacking as you go. eg. 59:06
Imperator is undead!
is there some backstory behind remo saying +4 intelligence?
Well, it's just that lich gets +4 intelligence on level 4, therefore getting a big boost
Remo points it out literally every game when the lich gets there
So given the amount of times this happened, you can say that there's now a backstory
@@vladsavchenko9176 does lich get different boosts in intelligence each level gained, assuming it's not always +4 at other lvls?
@@justinwong4149 I believe lich has +3.4 bonus to intelligence (the only number that fits here)
So first two level ups he gets 3 points, as his "real" bonuses are 3.4 and 6.8, and then he gets +4, as he gets to 10.2
@@vladsavchenko9176 Nice factoid. But is an extra intelligence boost on the Level 4 mark really going to make that big a difference?
Getting to level 3 or level 5 seems much more important
@@DivineAtheistWannabe of course, upgrading Nova is great, no doubt about that.
On lvl 4 main bonus for lich is a huge manapool boost:
+60 MP just from intelligence
+ Increased manaregen
+ Quite often skillpoint goes into Dark Ritual, giving the hero basically infinite mana if it's DR lvl 2
Plus 4 damage, of course
Lich is sort of unique because of huge power boosts with each level, Remo is just super-excited about the lvl3->lvl4 jump.
This matchup is so bad. Map 4, Happy lost almost everything in TH base even the TP, meanwhile TH has expo running and Happy is still in the game! How tf?!
It's the Emperor
Ah, looks like you see what so many others fail to see. This has been what UD vs HU has looked like for many many years.
1:35:52 "He must be dead!"
Something should really be done about the statues. On tier 2 undead has almost infinite mana and hp regen. This allows undeads to pressure for 10 mins straight without having to go back which is just ridiculous. The mana regen statues provide easily outperforms brilliance aura lvl 2... The mana pool of the statues should be significantly reduced.. either that or the mana cost...
Ud has no heal or retreat option in shops like other races (dagger is a joke) so statues compensate for it
@@kukuruzzo I'm not saying it should be removed but that it should be nerfed.
Actually.. add mana potion to the shop and remove mana statues completely...
aoe heal and mana it is. for a unit that is immune to magic (somewhat), heavy armor and good hp pool its too good. human needs at least 3 fragile priests and a hero for it to be as good.
@@faltenpitt6266 Harras? You're kidding, right? Happy defended with one destroyer and 3 ghouls literally...
Not to mention that with the storm bolt nerfed you can't even kill an acolyte on lvl 3
Боже, что за чушь... Хуман с бесплатным экспандом жалуется на статуи. Бля!
Nice comments
Wouldn't Clap (especially in combination with Blizzard) have been amazing for these games? So many Undead ground units.
Edit: Also, can Breakers not steal Frost Armor and Magic Shield (from Banshees)? Otherwise, what's the point of making Breakers? :o
They can't. You make them because they can't be nuked and drain UD-Heroes Mana.
I guess they can steal frost armor but not magic shield and I guess the real danger of the undead army are the heroes (countered by stormbolt) not the fiends (countered by clap)
@@Fenixias no frost armor stolen.
Happy is the ever best!
Happy gaegosu nice!!
this mu is broken bs. the only way human can win is by ud making a giant mistake
happy needs to sprea his "meat wagons" hahahahahhahahahaha ud like wouldnt u remo
第四局好看
Undeads are OP
Ouch, the meta is shitting the bed. I mean it is cool for now, a lot of multi tasking and organization, but with it being so one lane it is also a bit boring because human has no real options. You either survive until you get a critical tank mass, or you lose.
I think the problem is with undead. Undeads standard tech and units are too good or mandatory to do anything else, so other races are forced to play around that one tactic, which leaves some races in a decent spot (nelf with dryads and fairy dragons) but humans in a very bad spot. Not sure how to balance that, but it needs some change up.
Too be honest I think it's good that UD > HU. I want TH000 and Infi coming up with new strats.
Nice hat!
Happy looks like he had a very bad ping.
UD 1 mistake in micro on high stake games and it's game over boi
1:50 TH is good...
Lol 4 Auras for Undead on last match
15:42 lol
It's no wonder Infi plays orc vs. UD as the matchup vs. HU is just ridiculously onesided. Some entertaining games though.
Strange to me that TH000 did the same thing pretty much every game. Happy punished it progressively more every game.
Daethbane there is no other possibility for hu to win
Isn't staff such a boring item? Just takes he micro away from the battle if you can just triple staff home your units then run away (having killed maybe three of your opponents units if you trade okay).
I guess the three best players in the world currently are 1. Lyn 2. Happy 3. Th000?
San dro
Moon also if NE wouldn’t have been nerfed or if actually there would exist a patch with a serious balance throughout all races. This of course is extremely difficult, because it would include Hero balances too.
@@omerozkan4856 I can agree to that. Best NE player Moon.
Best orc player - Lyn
Best UD players - Happy and 120
Best human players - Th000 and Infi.
I think those 6 makes the cut.
San dro
I would also include ThorZain as Human player, even though he never faced Chinese players. One of the best I have ever seen.
@@omerozkan4856 He plays very good vs Happy, his micro is insane. But he fell short against Foggy and other prop European players. Neo and Remo discussed if Thorzain is second best (after Hawk I guess) or third best European human player. However he is new from SC2 play. Who knows?
@@omerozkan4856 infi, th, fortitude, sok,chemiko, thunder,yumiko, blade, hawk and then thorzhan?
Император невозмутим
There are two undeads in comp play and there are only 2 for a reason. The race isn’t as playable as happy and 120 make it look. They are just simply BETTER than ANY other undead players. It’s almost not really fair to the playerbase to judge undead meta and other races meta based off of happy and 120 games. No other race has literally 2 players that are simply 20x better than anyone else in their race. It is not stated enough how many game’s happy and 120 win a game that literally every single other undead player would lose.
Yeah, there are only two undeads and literally thousands of top-level lyn-like humans, orcs and elves out here, moron.
Ok fly focus lyn? Hitman has taken maps. Human and Orc have plenty of tier 1 and tier 2 players. Elf right now is the same as undead with the 2 players but that’s from patching issues
Well actually, NE has 0 such players. So two is still pretty good
back when wc3 scene was still alive happy wasnt even the top3 ud in the world. ted, fov, lucifer, susiria, madfrog were all better than happy
牛逼啊，UD1矿追着hum2矿打，还把hum压死了。
Dark ranger was useless at that stage. Should have gone crypt Lord. Human was all melee normal damage. The bugs could provide defense for fiends.
this match up is such bs. only ud can pressure. human can do nothing but expo and limp along in the hope of surviving. 120 always beats infi. happy beats TH.
120 & happy are incredible players, but it is imba
can you download the game first?
I am so done with seeing undead win everything. Come the F on...
It's only one UD player that wins anything for UD
@@resee9856 i am so done with seeing happy win everything lol.
The world champ was orc lol
Don't cry, little boy, everythin will be fine
Shut up noob
commentator really fan of TH000 omg