I know, the volume is well off.... A Thousand apologies, I was (not so) young and stupid.... Click here for a fixed version - ruclips.net/video/zzNa6oqrJ8g/видео.html
This clip probably saved someone's life as I was about to defenestrate my printer after a week of constant clogging after installing a spider pro that I thought was going to solve all my problems - was I wrong, it printed one benchy before wasting kilos of filament but finally the 1mm setting seams to have worked - also some great comments with some good ideas, thanks so much for the upload :)
Never use regular CPU thermal grease in the hot end area (the throat area is slightly cooler, but ...). Its working range is up to 150 C. The paste instantly turns to stone and it is difficult to disassemble it later. Use special high temperature thermal compounds.
I too bought a clone and I’ve had lots of string but I completely solved it by tightening the nozzle when hot as you said and then removing the two countersink pins that holds the hotend to the heat sink, OMG it’s been a game changer for me. Hope that helps 👍
Hi Mark, great minds think alike! Very soon after this video I tried removing the set screws and also changed to a ducted silent Noctua fan... zero stringing 👍 thanks for the comments and the watch!
Haha! I thought 11 was the loudest! Thanks for the feedback, I think it was this video which inspired me to buy a new microphone! Hopefully my recent videos are better...
Had no issue hearing you, and I'm deaf on 1 ear and reduced sensitivity on the other. Wearing a headset though, but volume is several notches down from max (on phone with a cheapo active type-c dongle, not exactly a super powerful driver). But boosting the voice recording is certainly appreciated if your new mic don't "solve" it - shouldn't be much hassle when doing edited video anyway (not a single continous recording uploaded raw). I think it helped (for me at least), that past the channel intro, there wasn't a bunch of background music during your dialogue, that would otherwise also get louder when cranking up the volume.
Few words for people replacing with all metal heatbreak and what I have absolutely tuned up: 1.) Lower the temperature you used to print PLA with. A LOT. I went from 210 to 190 °C. ABS can happily run at regular 245 °C. If you replaced heatblock by copper/brass one, lower the temp even more as it really has great termal conductivity. Higher temp materials wont have problem with clogging when printed at regular temps as those can sustain at least 20 °C more then PLA (55 °C melting point) 2.) Lower the retractions. 1.5 mm at max, by the size of the zone making the actual break. 3.) Go with Klipper firmware or at least better board (not 8 bit) so you can use Marlin Linear Advance (Klipper's Pressure advance work on 8 bit board as calculations are managed by Raspberry). That will completely eliminated stringing and blobs and retractions are there for „just in case“. But not needed that much. All of these will allow you to print PLA on all metal heatbreak and much better materials like ABS and Nylon without any problems (well, ABS getting from heatbed is another subject)
@@MakingforMotorsport I've got the ENder 5 Plus this monday and not even bothered with Marlin. Klipper & Fluid are much, much better. Anyway, Linear/Pressure advance and most important, Input shaper to eliminated ringing will do wonders with quality of the prints. If pressure advance is tuned up well, you will have hard time to find a seem on your prints :)
Thanks for the temp tip. Just changed mine on my ender6. Couple hours in, clog. Think it’s from heat creep due to me hitting those temps like I used to. Problem is I changed everything because of a clogging issue from the tube to heat break from the stock one.
@@zozoartstudio4727 what are your retractions? For bowden, it really matters in case of all metal. I run my Dragon HF on Ender 5 Plus with 3 mm retractions BUT - Klipper firmware with pressure advance set on every filament. PLA at 205 °C no problem, but I had hard clog with CF Nylon once and it wasn’t funny to get it out given how tough material it is. Lowerig temp by 10 °C helped completely. Depends on your hotend cooling fan too, I run Sunon 4020 because only this gives enough airflow and pressure while quiet, Noctuas are no go.
@@ZhuJo99 let me start by saying I’m a complete amateur and have been doing this for months. So I apologize if I’m ignorant to some of this. Not sure on what fan is on the Ender 6, still have it as stock. So far I haven’t felt it’s been an issue.. yet. The retraction is what CURA defaulted it for the ender 6, at 10mm. I’ve tried 8mm and 6mm and I’ve had complete jumbled failures with those. (Could’ve been too cool temp on those but 190C shouldn’t have been cause for failure if this new copperhead heatbreak can run cooler with PLA, but who knows) Today after a bunch of tests I finally had a successful one (except for the corners curling up a little) I really wanted to make sure the issue wasn’t how I had put it back together, it had blocked up, but was it heatcreep? Was it not aligned? So I played with some settings, nothing crazy, minutia temp changes until finally No failure. But I was thinking. Maybe the printer, after heating up and cooling down a bunch of times has the hot end settling together with the new components.
Always run a PID calibration if you disturb the heat-capsule! The heat-capsule needs a little shmoo, but not the thermistor. A bit on the nozzle threads helps with steel nozzles. There are three main factors that limit heat flow: 1) Air gap, 2) surface irregularities and 3) surface cleanliness/oxidation. Shmoo displaces air, fills grooves and valleys and prevents oxidation. Doesn't matter if the shmoo is loaded with silver-plated nano diamonds or boring old zinc oxide! The thermal properties of the solid ingredients isn't as important as 'sealing' the gaps between parts. Arctic Silver 5, my choice, works slightly better than bulk white generic 'heat sink compound'.
Hi, thanks for the comment! I didn’t do a PID tune for a couple of reasons, 1. The temperature is rock solid 2. I haven’t played with the firmware or done anything complicated with the printer, just kept it simple (I did another video on CF-PA with a “stock” Ender). But the thermal grease was as cheap as I could get and I might upgrade next time (although i did get about 5 tubes!!)
@@MakingforMotorsport You'd need something better if you're "schmoo"ing the heater like Greg said. CPUs don't run at 200c(They cease functioning long before), so the compound doesn't hold together that high(it will start separating and maybe turning into other things). You need industrial stuff. McMaster-Carr(an American industrial supply company) sells Boron Nitride syringes for about 12 USD. It is in fact suggested as the product to use for 3d printer heating blocks by MMC.
Oh boy. Just so you (probably) already know, it’s not because it’s a cloned part, it’s the characteristics of all metal hot ends. I myself got one of the original Micro Swiss ones and had nothing but frustration. I ditched it in the bottom of my parts drawer some eight months ago and went back to the stock hotend. Now that I watched your video I’m ready to give it another try. Never considered using thermal paste, it solved your problem and will probably solve mine. Cheers mate!
Not so sure… I know every all metal hot end has more problems than the standard hot end. And anyway the Prusa uses a E3D V6 and runs PLA no problems…. (So that’s what I’ve bought now!)
This is a bit long, but I hope it moght be useful for others when troubleshooting stringing, oozing, retraction issues etc. Understanding the dynamics at work had helped me _a lot._ 1.0mm of retraction on a bowden setup, even with tight tubing like capricorn etc, is pretty much "no retraction". There's usually a 0.2 to 0.4 (or more) mm larger diameter inside the bowden tube, than the filament diameter. As the extruder pushes filament through the bowden tube and there's (normal) resistance at the hotend, there's room in the (bowden) tube for the filament to absorb that force and tension, by bowing inside the tube. Kinda like taking the outside of *every* bend on a race track - when you do that in _all_ the bends, you're effectively doing longer laps than if you stayed in the center of the track. The longer the tube, the more accumulated space the filament has to bow and flex. The result is that when pushing the filament, there's several millimeters more filament inside the tube, than the actual length of the tube itself. That filament inside the tube is under tension, maintaining that flex. Badly configured extruder e-steps can attenuate these issues. So when doing retraction on a bowden setup, the first few millimeters of retraction doesn't actually cause any actual retraction of filament inside the hotend - it just relieves that pressure, so that now there's the same length of filament inside the bowden tube, as the length of the tube itself. This relieves the filament tension and reduces oozing. Next, the hot (and the molten) segment of filament inside the hotend is sticky. So there's some resistance to physically pulling the filament back out. This results in the extruder needing to pull on the filament with force, causing the filament to bow inside the tube once again - this time similar to taking the _inside_ of every bend on a race track. So now you've added another 1-2 mm of retraction, but the result is that there's now a _lesser_ length of filament inside the bowden tube, than the length of the actual tube. Only once the extruder has pulled out all the "slack" available for the filament to bow/bend/flex inside the bowden tube, do you get near-full transfer of "pulling force" from the extruder, onto the bit of filament inside the hotend so there's enough force to overcome the sticky friction. Only then, does the filament actually start moving (retracting) inside the hotend. So with a bowden setup, it's not until _beyond_ 3-4+ mm of "retraction" at _the extruder end,_ that the filament _in the hotend_ actually start moving/retracting. 1mm of retraction, likely won't be enough even just to relieve the filament tension, to _mostly_ stop it oozing. It certainly won't cause actual retraction at the hotend, you usually need _at least_ 3-4 times that before filament retraction at the hotend actually kicks in. Do note: This stuff doesn't notably change with an all-metal hotend, because the cause of it is the bowden tube between the extruder and the hotend. The tiny bit thst go inside a lined hotend, doesn't make a notable difference. And it's a fully straight section of tube, which is less conducive to filament significantly bowing inside.
So even with an all metal hotend you'd go for 4mm retraction? I'm about to give up on my hot end. I haven't tried normal retraction yet i went straight to what the internet recommended.
@@abgingernuts Or more. If you're having issues, 4mm is practically a minimum. Try 6 or even 7 first, see if that makes a difference at all If it does, but too much, start dialing it down from there. As mentioned in OP, the mechanics of this doesn't change with an all-metal hotend, because the (room for) "slack" is in the bowden tube. Especially curved sections. Even with a PTFE lined hotend where the bowden tube goes all the way up to the nozzle, that last bit of bowden tube inside the hotend is straight and terminates in the nozzle so the filament doesn't bow or flex much in this small, 30-40mm section. With an all-metal hotend, there's a metal path for the last 15-30mm instead, but it has roughly the same bore size as the bowden tube so the effect on retractions are practically identical. The filament might sometimes stick a bit more to the interior walls of some All-metal hotends though, meaning in some cases you may need to add another mm or two of retraction, for the elasticity of the length of filament inside the bowden tube between the extruder and hotend to break the friction and pull the molten plastic at the nozzle back. TL;DR This is pretty universal with bowden setups. The "only" setups where you need less retraction (0.5-2.0mm range), is with direct drive extruder setups. For bowden, whether your hotend is all metal or PTFE lined, you need _at least_ 4mm - often significantly more.
@@pr0xZen i went back to a .4 nozzle but kept my hotend to knock out a variable as i was having issues. 5mm retraction seems to have it working well again! Thanks!
So here's my story. Bought a micro-swiss clone as well, no printing issues at all (still none). Then amazon stopped carrying it so when I needed it for my other 2 printers, I bought something "similar". I too had this clogging issue, but only like 10 minutes in. The hotends looked identical from the outside. Your video opened my eyes, yes of course the retraction was causing it. You have semi-melted filament trying to go back up a tight metal tube that won't give. So here was my fix. I slid some drill bits in the metal hole to see how tight it might be (figured mine was probably around 1.8mm, but don't have a pin gage set). This seems very tight, and quite excessive for metal since the filament really has nowhere to go. So I went up the next drill american drill size (2.1mm equivalent), and drilled all the way through to open it up so the semi-melted filament would still have space when it retracts. This 100% fixed my issue, and I suggest everyone try this (or at least verify how tight your metal throat is).
Great idea! 🧐 I found that, when it was clogging, the filament had cooled in the PTFE section to the larger diameter of the inside of the PTFE tube and wouldn’t go back down the all metal hotend (mine is much longer than the one shown in the video). I also reduced the retraction till it now works and stringing isn’t too bad but your idea is MUCH better. My guess if that the all metal idea works well but some heat travels up the melted plastic material itself softening a long section of the plastic. Increasing hotend temperature probably makes it worse. I run at slightly lower temperatures too. PLA gets soft at 100 C so a nozzle running at 210C is going to heat up a lot of plastic before it even gets to the nozzle.
When upgrading the hot end on my V2, I just went with the Slice engineering heat break. With the exception that it was longer than the OEM heat break by almost 2 mm it works great so far. That was after I sanded the 2 mm excess. I applied thermal grease only to the top part of the heat break that goes into cooler. BTW thermal grease is applied in a very thin layer on the break, its not meant to "fill" any voids. Applying thremal grease to the threads that go into the heater block isn't recommended since thats where you want the plastic to start melting. Because the Slice heat break is machined so well, I had to adjust the retraction rate down to .05-.08 (I'm running a direct drive). As for the 2 screws on the bottom of the heater block, when I first installed the heat break it was too long so I left out the 2 screws and attempted a print. The print went fine till the heater block spin around and wrecked the print. Why anyone says to remove them is just being silly. How many printers have them without an issue. They are meant to support and to align the heater block and not allow the block to spin and knock off the top of a print. If you feel that they should be removed go for it, just hot tighten the grub screw and hope it doesnt spin while your printing.
I'm struggling with my all metal PLA and clogging since I installed, so extremely frustrated. I'm going to try this now . If it works.. Gonna kiss you. Update: After +30 hours no clogging.
Sounds very familiar, I went all metal, other materials printed but PLA clogged... I wouldn’t even think of not using the thermal paste or going big (more than 2.5mm) on retractions with PLA again. (And you don’t have to kiss me 😂)
@@MakingforMotorsport Omg, first successful print in a week, it worked or its a coincidence(I don't think so) , amazing. I only applied thermal to the barrel, not the nozzle. Thank you.
CPU silver heat paste will degrade at above 140 C at best. Its not designed to go higher then 100 cause your CPU will shut down due to thermal protections. It will probably be fine for heat break / heat sync but it will hurt on the nozzle hot block.
Just looked at my package of kryonaut thermal paste. It looks like it's 350c! Artic silver is 130 though so get some kryonaut. I am not sure if thats long term temp so you might wanna double check.
You are a life saver! I bought the a virtually identical model off aliexpress and was having constant jams. The thermal paste tip got that cheap little clone printing wonderfully!
Also, MOST (not all) thermal grease/compound or glue/epoxy can "cook" and turn extremely hard and actually work as an insulator. Due to the close tolerances of the heater and probe, you don't actually need to use any compound on these parts. Plus if any of the grease gets into your print, its going to ruin it as well.
@@MakingforMotorsport Still some clogging going on with pla. But CF nylon prints fantastic. Saw someone talking about conditioning the hotend with sewing machine oil. Might be worth a try.
You should try Ali Express takes long but I got the exact same style as that with a sensor and heat cartridge for 4.89 shipped been using it almost a year not one problem
You hit the nail on the head mate, the shipping takes ages and I don’t have that patience anymore, Amazon and never waiting more than a day have ruined me! I have heard good things about some AliExpress stuff tho... maybe I just need to plan more 🤔
I just got so frustrated with my printer that I stopped using it. I was getting the “dug dug dug” of the filament struggling to feed and it got to a point where pretty much every print would fail. Now I can’t even remember how to use the thing. 3D printing was so frustrating. Good luck to you and glad to see that you had better results!!
It can be bad and I have been there… best thing to do at that point is to warm it up, clean up the filament, disassemble and start again… never fails to fix my clogging problems…
That sucks, Dave. It seems like 3D printers in the 2020s are becoming the salt water aquariums of the 1980s, and as a guy who has successfully raised non-photosynthetic black sun corals AND has an Ender 3 that pretty much runs 24/7… in both of those cases I can honestly say that the general opinion of most people I know is, “There is no way I would have spent the time and money to learn what you’ve learned in order to do THAT.” My response, generally, is, “Why not?” - but, there are times (days? weeks?) where I wholeheartedly agree it’s not worth it. So far I’ve been able to solve the problem at hand and push on through, though. Interestingly, I think both of the above mentioned hobbies have the same problems: myths & misinformation, foreign fly-by-night equipment sources, and a lack of access to true experts and mentors because there aren’t very many yet - certainly not enough to mentor the hoards of new people getting into the hobby (and make no mistake: a 3D printer is not a device, it’s a person with skills that can operate that device) There is one upside: it’s almost Christmas again, and about 6 weeks after that is when the first frustrated people will start putting their Christmas present printers on eBay, Kijiji, etc… 😕 (Sorry, make that 2 upsides… screwing up a mod or upgrade on a 3D printer doesn’t kill marine life … at least, not usually. 😎)
@@lucasthompson1650 You're partially correct, these are not machine meant for the casual guy thinking 3D is a cool concept. From my experience with my Ender 3 I can confidently say: I doesn't matter if you know what you're doing, these cheap machine simply have garbage designs. The sheer amount of problems I got just because the printer is the way it is, it way too much to be remotely close to acceptable. My z-axis motor shouldn't have passed quality control. It was severely out-of-spec without proper calibration, losing a whole layer every 20 mm of upward travel. Had to buy a dial gauge just to catch this problem after months of failed prints and clicking like a woodpecker on crack. The magnetic bed also is not stable long term, developing a low spot in the middle severe enough to prevent any kind of sticking. I also had to print an entire mod just to allow the filament to enter the extruder without scraping, thanks to the big brain design of having the spool holder almost vertical. Also every now and then I've to reseat the PTFE tube, because again if it moves even slightly, the printer just clogs. For me it's like having bought a unfinished product. I can understand why people just throw them away after a couple of weeks. Took me almost a year to get my Ender 3 _close_ to a working state.
If you get under extrusion and eventually clogs the fault is not the extruder nor the nuzzle and even not the slicer setting most likely. It's the bowden tube... trust me i almost throw my ender 3 v2 printer away trying figure out why it was under extruding and clogging.. my slicer settings were good, nuzzle was changed to new one event tho the old was less than 2 weeks old. extruder was running fine, never had or have adhesion problems my leveling is very good (quite proud of that). except the bowden tube.. You see the tube is twisting around while the printer works and the coupler that keeps the bowden tube in place cutting quite the grooves around where the little teeth holding it. now eventually thanks to that twisting and retractions causes the tube to move away from the nuzzle leaving a gap and that is where the clog starts, to be precise the tube clogs not the nuzzle. There is a fix tho, a pritable fix. i can't recall the where i found the stl files for what you need or the video explaining it, but basically you cut a piece of tube you put it inside the hot end like you do normally only this time is going only a few inches above to where the coupler bottoms out, you have 3d printed something like a cone washer that goes after that and then the coupler that when tighten it sandwiches the tube between the nuzzle and the 3d printed washer, after that you place the tube from the extruder to the coupler only this time it goes as far as the washer you put inside. It does not matter how much the printer move around or the tube from the extruder to the coupler, the piece of tube that is sandwiched inside of there is going nowhere. Sorry if my explanation is long and maybe not sufficient enough or for any spelling mistakes and what nots, even though i can't recall where i found the stl file and video i hope you do. i never run in any sort of problems after that fix ever. i hope that helps
No retract = stringing whatever you do. I have been printing similar manifolds as these featured on your video and print quality would benefit greatly from design upgrades. In this case a sacrificial or solid bridge connecting the tubes would also make a more rigid print.
Generally, you do *not* want to put thermal paste around the nozzle: 99% of the time they are not meant to be used at these temperatures (remember you got rid of the PTFE tube for that reason). One thing you could try, though, is to screw the nozzle all the way (back it off 1/4 turn and re-tighten once hot) and then screw the heatbreak: the heatbreak should see less thermal transfer from the heatblock
The temp rating of the grease has been mentioned in the comments before and this is rated to 300degC so no problems there, but it’s also a really good idea to maximise the amount of the nozzle in the heater block and minimise the amount of the heat break! Great shout 👍
TO UNCLOG i've just been sticking my hotend (slice copperhead w/heatbreak) in the oven when it gets clogged. the stuck filament should drip out when molten but if not shove an allen wrench through it while hot. i dread the day i start printing PEI/PEEK though because the oven doesnt get hot enough for those
First, stop whispering. I can't even hear you while I'm driving. Yeah I'm not supposed to watch videos while I'm driving. I wasn't really watching. I was just listening. 2nd, reduce your retraction speed to 20mm. 40 mm is way too fast . Yeah it's counterintuitive but trust me, it'll work. At least for PLA and PET-G. When you get into the fancier filament it's all bits are off. And I'm curious why you're printing in nylon with carbon fiber. You should probably use ABS or ASA
Hi, got it from Amazon, it’s a Noctua 4020 premium quiet fan, it’s so quiet it’s amazing. Noctua NF-A4x20 PWM, Premium Quiet Fan, 4-Pin (40x20mm, Brown) www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07125KWG1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_BKPPJT8NFFNAXH9PZ9G1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 They either of the 12v versions work but you will need to wire one of these in to bring the stock 24v down to 12v... 6 PCS LM2596 DC-DC Buck Converter 3.0-40V to 1.5-35V Step up down Converter Module Adjustable Boost Converter DC Power Supply Voltage Regulator for 3D Printer, Camera, Computer Fans, QLOUNI www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B077VW4BTY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_MQ7YT8CP3TA85P2QPFRA?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Thats a Problem. U need more power the noctua is too weak for cooling. I recomend Sunon Fans with a higher pressure and AirVolume/h Physics cant be tricked :P
@@Qub1tus Hi, more cooling is always going to be better but I just balanced up the noise issue... all I can say is with the Noctua and the duct I haven’t had 1 heat creep clog... plus I get less stringing than the normal E3Pro cooler... Physics can’t be tricked you’re right.... but helicopters prove that physics can be persuaded! 😂
I have the Micro Swiss Hotend what is close to yours, I have a retraction from 3 mm / 45 mm/s Temp is 5 - 10 C° more than normal, try to use that setting. Best regards
I know there is alot of comments at this point, but am I the only one that noticed that the nozzle was not installed properly? The nozzle should be screwed in all the the way and then backed out a quarter turn. Then the throat (heat break) should be installed. Once that is done, heat the hot end up and torque down the nozzle. There is way too much of the nozzle threads hanging outside the block which might be the whole reason for the stringing.
I will try that, as I have sped up the movement, but slowing down the print I haven’t. Since the video I have removed the securing screws from the hot end and put on a silent Noctua fan which is ducted into the cooler, this has fixed 95% of the stringing... maybe slowing down will fix the last 5%!
I might be a dummy but what do you mean by reprime? It drives me nuts that all these different programs have different names for settings. Im in cura if anyone can help translate
damn man , my v6 clone is driving me nuts , if I print without retracts I have normal prints but lots of stringing , if I turn on retract it just clogs all the time clicking and skipping layers like crazy the worst part is that it began doing this when i tried to print gembird pla (which I never tried before) after printing only abs for some time , the worst part is if I print abs , no clicks , no clogs . so now the question is : does it have to do with the bad pla spool or is it that pla has rough surface and doesnt slide as good as abs does during retracts and advances and I had the bad contact of heatbreak with the heatsink all along ...
Its just heat creap probably. Buy a bi metal heatbreak that use titanium and copper. I hear the work great. Just ordered one on ebay for my CR 5 Pro H. Will try it out soon.
I tried the thermal paste and reducing the retraction but I did one thing few people do: I looked up fan cowlings on thingiverse and found an internal fan shroud that screwed on the BACK of the heat sink fan that directed more air to the heat sink and I've just about eliminated stringing now i have to back track to contend with the blobs. I to have an Ender 3 pro and have just about got it ready for CF nylon, just need a enclosure and a better bed plate. Glass is a bad idea for PETG so I'm looking at spring steel PEI sheet. I could use the back for the CF nylon.
Nice! What I do for CF-Nylon is use my glass bed with glue stick, and on the flip side of that I have my mag pad and the PEI spring steel, that way I can flip between surfaces without releveling!
Get a Mellow MS clone from Aliexpress they come with a real titanium heatbrake that is a snug fit and the heatsinks are machined from quality aluminium
Yeah, I have seen reviews of other clones and they do seem to have tighter tolerances than mine! It’s been made to work but if I have more issues I will probably get an E3D v6 style and try making this one water-cooled... How have you got on with the mellow clone?
@@MakingforMotorsport The Mellow clone is great, I was expecting problems but it has all gone smoothly although I am considering tapping it so I can use the pneumatic Bowden coupling instead of the Bowden collet as I was getting a bit of movement with the Bowden tube but I solved that by wrapping a bit of PTFE tape around it to give a tighter fit and all is well now, I think those Bowden colets are designed for the white Bowden tube and I am using Capricorn, I have some of the standard white stuff and I will try this out on a second Mellow I have ordered for an additional Ender 3, I was wowed by the manufacturing quality of the Mellow, everything is machined from solid billets of aluminium and the aluminium is quality stuff, not just bog-standard 601, the inside of the heatbrake is lapped to a very smooth finish. Oh, by the way, check this printer out, it is an Ender 3 V2 clone that is actually better than the original and only £129.30 Voxelab Aquilla www.voxelab3dp.com/product/aquila-diy-fdm-3d-printer
Its funny you say about the pneumatic fittings, I have a print fail last night because the Bowden fitting came out the the top of the hot end (probably my fault). I think you are right about the white bowden vs capricorn, it does seem to move more and it seems softer aswell so it gets torn up by the collets in the fitting. That printer looks like outstanding value, if I tried to get a 2nd printer i'd have to print a 2nd set of ball 'cus the Missis would have my current pair!! Although I do know some thinking about joining the 3D printing revolution who I could tempt with this........
@@MakingforMotorsport Interesting. I do want to point out however that the fins on the nozzle would be pointless of you make it water-cooled. An interesting thermodynamic principle is that fins don't actually work in liquids.
Oh man. That is one scammy short, ill-fitting heatbreak. No wonder you had these issues. That heatbreak is usually 3-4x as long at the heatsink end including on any reasonably OK all-metal hotends. Even on decent clones.
One thing I noticed you missed in regards to heat creep on these all metal hot ends, the two long screws (silver Phillips head) are in place just to help align the heating end with the rest of the body and should be removed after the whole unit is tightened securely as they will cause 3x the heat transfer between the heated end and cooling body hence the heat transfer problems. Try removing these and you should get way better performance without the need of thermal paste. This is an awesome video regardless and greate starting point for anyone to begin printing using these metal hot ends. Thank you for putting in the effort of recording this, you are much appreciated! 💯🌟👍
CHEP youtube channel proved the screws are basically nothing to worry about. Decent *theory*, but the emperical heat transfer that actually occurs through the screws IRL is completely negligible in practice.
What you gained with this? I just tried a bimetal barrel with my ender 3 neo and I only got nothing but stringing and clogs withy PLA, went back to the stock barrel + teflon and somehow is working even better than before somehow. So, for PLA the all metal barrels don't make sense right?
I bought a bimetal heatbreak ( that is actually for an Artillery printer ) from banggood, I replaced only the heatbreak in the stock ender hotend, added a stainless steel nozzle and it just worked. Because the heatbreak was shorter than the standard steel one, I actually just left the heatbreak cilinder part stick out of the cooling side , it's being held by the grub screw and the two heatblock bolts. I am now in the process of making another all metal hotend from a backup standard one I bought, now using a titanium heatbreak... fingers crossed :) .
I'm having the clog clog problem, not matter what retraction or temp I set. I bought the bimetal and waiting to arrive. Did you do any extra setting after installing it?
I saw CNC kitchen do a piece on the Bimetallic heat break and really boosted print speeds with it...hadn’t thought of using it to solve clogging. Did the bimetallic heat break work with the standard hot to make it all metal??? Do you have the link?
@@duveral none, actually I didn't even do a PID tune. What I did different than any guide: I tightened the nozzle on the heat block with brute force to make sure there was zero gap between the nozzle and the bimetal heatbreak, that "tighten when hot " didn't go well to me in the past. I do have a noctua 40x10 instead of the stock fan, but the fan is actually weaker, so it should have more heat creep, but the bimetal heatbreak I think it's the key.
@@MakingforMotorsport yup , there is where I learned about the bimetal heatbreak, also from a channel called ruiraptor. Regarding the bimetal heatbreak, just search "creativity bi-metal heatbreak" , for ender the full-moon one is needed. Basically I bought the cheapest one I could find :-D , bought a spare hotend and mounted it on it just to see if it can work , and now it's my default setup :-D . It is full metal hotend now, I just printed nylon at 255C yesterday.
Warning: Many thermal pastes meant for computer parts are only tested and validated for the usual temperature ranges (like 0-100°C) and not for excessive heat of 200°C and above! Make sure to get properly validated thermal pastes for these temperatures, especially if you plan on applying thermal paste to parts of the heatblock! a simple off-the-shelf thermal paste will be fine if you only apply it to the heatbreak-heatsink portion, but NOT for the nozzle, heating element or temperature probe!
Hi, thanks for the comment, this has been bought up before and the HY510 is good for 300degC, it appears that some of the more “high performance” compounds for gaming PC have the lower top end temps. But you’re right, always check!!!
with a all metal hotend u have to turn ur retractions down quite a bit from the stock boden system, i think my ender 5 was 5 ot 6mm/s for the retraction speed an 45mm distance i think i cant remember now its been so long but all i had to do was change the retraction speed down to 2.5mm/s an it was perfect. i did buy mine from microswiss an i went by their instructions an it worked great so for my ender 3 and aquila i just picked up clones of the microswiss first one was half the price so 30 an the last was only a quarter at 15 an they are both identical to the micoswiss so when installing them i did the same as i did for my ender 5 from microswiss an dropped the retractions an they have worked just as good as the microswiss. oh also did a pid tune.
It’s a tricky balance…. Enough retraction to not clog the hotend but enough to stop stringing… Fortunately I don’t need to worry, I went the E3D V6 route and have no problems now 👍
Hi, thanks for watching! Absolutely, I should’ve mentioned that e-steps and nozzle temps are critical and an easy place to start (I had already done both) but these all metal hotend clogs seem to all be about retraction and heat creep as the clog is in the heat break. Do you have an all metal hot end?
That’s quite the piece of kit! What materials do you normally run with that beast??? I am just trying out some CF-Nylon but have eyes on the high end in time...
@@MakingforMotorsport mostly PLA or PTEG, have some C.F. ASA in the wings........ just another thought on the stringing.... have you re-calibrated the PID? Heard that if one changes anything re: hot end, the P.I.D. might need some tweeking. This changes some of the Marlin code in the EPROM of the motherboard of the printer.
CF ASA? Not seen that one, but CF seems to help a lot with stopping warping so it’s probably useful on ASA aswell. I didn’t do a PID, mainly because the temp is rock solid (I get more variation in my bed than hot end) and I was trying to keep the printer as stock as possible for a different video. That said, I am planning on going SKR v1.4 turbo with Octoprint soon so any little tweak like that I will be happy to make...
Hi there!! I love your channel !! I am currently doing a project similar to yours with a speeduino and a 1.6 8v megane, I have designed the intake manifolds to adapt yamaha r6 carburettors !!! but i'm having trouble with nylon printing. the finish is horrible, the pieces suffer from cracking ... I use a x1 artillery with direct extruder, all metal hotend ... any advice ??? If you want I'll leave you in the link of the page where I upload my designs in case you need any for future projects !!!
Hi there! Sounds like a great project! For the Nylon, have you dried it out properly? (Full spool on at 60degC for maybe 4hours), if it’s not been dried just before you start and it’s held in a low humidity environment it’ll soak up water from the air which boils in the hot end causing all kinds of problems…. I dry out thoroughly EVERY time before printing… check out my Nylon video for what I do 👍
@@MakingforMotorsport good afternoon!!! Yes, at the beginning I dried the filament at 80 ° in the oven for 3 hours. even so, when I print, cracking appears in the pieces and warping. I will try to close the printer in a closet to get a more homogeneous temperature. I have a profile in cad grab. If you want, I'll give you my link and take a look at the collectors I'm making. Best regards!!!
I don't have your exact problem as the clicking on appears during the first part of the print and seems to work okay after that and does not affect the print quality, very little if any stringing. I have a genuine Microswiss direct drive and all metal hot end. I use 0.5mm retraction. The one thing I found that helped is tightening up the tension that the extruder has on the filament. I use PETG exclusively as PLA just clogs which I did not understand until recently. I am printing in an enclosure and PLA needs airflow around it or it will cool to soon and cause clogs. I know a lot of people say PETG is stringy which initially I did have problems with, but I store it and use it from within a drybox with desiccant. I have not had any problems since. The humidity here is high around 50%.
Good that I found this video. I have an Ender 5 S1 with the stock Sprite extruder that developed alot of clogs recently. The application of thermal paste on nozzle & upper part of the heatbreak worked wonders.
On my MK8 hotends, I've used Teflon tape (aka PTFE) on the heatbreak's threads that go into the heatblock. It eliminated filament oozing out though the threads, and seems to reduce the heat transfer to the heatbreak/heatsink.
It was a combination really, so the heat soak was softening the filament too early and the retraction was just like pulling the trigger, with the paste I could increase retraction but only up to 2mm but still got stringing. Now I have also now removed the set screws and ducted the cooler fan i can run retraction at 2mm with almost zero stringing so I haven’t tried to increase is back up, but I think you’ll never get up the 3-5mm that you can with the standard hot end.
@@MakingforMotorsport Thanks for the reply, I was really curious about it. I've got an all metal hot end in the mail so i'll be going through the same thing with my bowden setup, good to know beforehand what the problems are. The one I got has a really thin heat break so it will be interesting to see if that makes a difference. Might need to convert to direct drive to have a low retraction length.
Hi, I haven’t had the clogging, I have had the odd skip at the extruder but that was from trying to go too fast, I haven’t even disassembled my hot end in about 3 weeks.. it just works 👍. Hope you get yours sorted, are you using the thermal paste?
@@MakingforMotorsport not yet but I'm about to! I mostly addressed mine with a custom cooling setup to isolate the heatbreak and force more air over it but I do still get some clogs with TPU and PLA. I'll try the thermal compound and see if that helps. I hadn't even considered that to he honest and I'm a sysadmin who builds PCs on the side... lol. Thanks for the response man!
Thank you so much for this. I got the same clone hotend (minus the black paint) and was getting jamming non-stop. Was about to try seasoning the hotend but saw you're video and decided to go for it. It works great. I used some Thermal Grizzly thermal paste I had from a PC build I did, says it's rated up 350C so I should be good. Do you know how often one should replace the thermal paste? I didn't put any paste between the heat block and nozzle as I like changing nozzles often and don't want to cause more clogging issues. Seriously, thank you!
Hi Gil, thanks for the message, it’s great to know these vids are helping people! As for how long, I honestly don’t know, I suppose the “simple” answer is when it starts clogging again but mine has been fine since I did the mod, nearly 2 months now... but maybe it’s about time I messed with it abit more??!! 🤔
@@MakingforMotorsport Yeah, that makes total sense. I'm expecting this to last a while since the heatbreak won't be getting nearly as hot as the heat block and I'll be investing in some better cooling options to help the thermal paste do it's job. Thanks again!
Your tips are good, but a common source of clogging all-metal hot ends when printing PLA, is an inadquate cooling fan. The crummy, stock 4010 fans on many printers won't cut it. Decent upgrade fans cost
Nope. On the standard hotend the PTFE Bowden tube goes all the way through the heatbreak to the nozzle and butts up against it, this limits nozzle temps to less that 240-260 as above that it decomposes into gases you REALLY don’t want to breathe. An all-metal hot end has a different hot-end which separates the Bowden tube from the nozzle and only the filament goes through. If the heatbreak gets too hot, especially on low temp filament like PLA, it melts, bingo…. That’s a clog.
i had a E3D V6 hot end !! i upgraded to 40 mil fan and in the adapter i made a hole where the heat break is .... so i had just enough draft to move the hot air coming up from the heat block to the heat break and that solved my problem ... im going to try the thermal paste thing when i get home
Voice intro - so low I had to 100% volume and get earpiece Intro music - so loud it hurt. Voice again - so low the earpiece had to go back in. Please.. do a huge favor and equalize your volumes. This is a pretty easy step to do in video editing before you upload it.
If you plan to keep on the whispering you should consider turning up the volume, had to turn on the CC because i cant hear what you say. You are about 50% of everyone elses volume.
Get a mosquito clone, it'll solve all your problems I had V6 hotend before, and had the same issues, caused by heatcreep, and not enough cooling on the cold end Sadly all of these types of hotends has the same issue, heatcreep The mosquito has bimetal heatbreak which solves these issues, also a lot more effective cooling on the cold end With it it doesn't really matter how much my retraction is, it never clogs, since I have it I never had any clogs I'm printing with pla, petg, abs, asa, tpu, soon I'll try to print nylon(66, mega prone to warping) if I finished the chamber heating Also nozzles Most cheap ones has a 120 degree cone at the end of the nozzle inside, super prone to clogging, the correct angle is 60, probably the material burns in the sharp corners and when it gets out it blocks the nozzle, or simply the flow resistance is that much higher in the 120 degree ones
Great bit of information… I went for the V6 because they are the Prusa standard (I think) and that seems to cope well enough with PLA? We’ll see I suppose! I’ll have a look out for those nozzles aswell 👍
On a completely standard Ender, you’re right but with an All metal hot end, anything over 3mm retraction is a recipe for clogging, as it pulls molten filament into cool metal. That’s often why all metal hot ends go well with direct drive extruder (look at a Prusa) as the retraction can be super accurate and as little as possible…
After I did the video I printed and fitted a “fang” fan arrangement, www.thingiverse.com/thing:3504842 this has a fan duct to put all the cooler fan directly onto the heat sink. This reduced the stringing to zero even with 1mm or so retraction, now no clogging AND great quality! Hopefully the changes, thermal paste, retraction settings and more air on the cooler help you get yours sorted! Stick at it!
Also, forgot to mention, I can print with no clogging on PLA, PETG and Nylon but if I try Glow In The Dark PLA it’s a battle, some filaments are better than others
@@MakingforMotorsport When I begin to feed the filament it starts coming out from the nozzle with ease but then it keeps clicking and gets stuck for some reason.. 😔😔
@@JohnWayne99999a so you can push the filament through with your hand at the print temp but when you start printing it starts clogging? What is your retraction setting? As long as the nozzle temp staying there that shouldn’t be the problem so it sounds like it’s heat soak and retraction. Something else I have done since the video is remove the 2 screws holding the heater block to the cooler, and just tightening up the nozzle to the heat break hard keeps everything together. This puts less heat into the cooler so it runs less hot.
@@MakingforMotorsport I set the retraction to 1mm, so maybe I should try to disable it completely and see what happens. I am quite confused and frustrated right now. It just makes no sense for the extruder to work and let the filament out when I push it through by hand but then, when I hit print it suddenly clogs up after 10 seconds or so. Edit. I am doing some tests. I just unscrewed the nozzle and let the filament run through the titanium tube while lowering the temperature down to 100 degrees. No issues so far. I wonder if the problem is the nozzle at this point..or the connection between the tube and the nozzle
They seem to be in stadnard sizes so I'm not sure which is wrong, the cooler or the heat break.... I'd thought about making one but.... thermal paste is the answer! (or maybe a non clone hot end 🤣)
cant hear you speak but your music intro is off the wall lol, in we are the smart ones lmaoooooo! good info tho/ update Anyone reading this look up Blackshark FAN For gaming phones, Its a heat sink, A lil air conditioner i attached mine to the fan housing it seems to do the trick adding cooler air being put on the all metal end dont change your slicer settings try 1 thing at a time i got no stringing i didnt change
Thermal Grizzly paste is rated up to 350°C, Arctic MX-5 goes up to 180°C Also the Cold-End doesn't get nearly as hot as the heaterblock. This is exactly what the heat-BREAK is supposed to do.
Hi, thanks for the comment. I did check the specs and it’s good for up to 300degC, which is more than enough for me, it’s cheap so I actually probably wouldn’t use it on an expensive CPU, but here it is definitely better than nothing and has shown to do the job!
If you buy thermal grease that brakes down at only 80c that's some major crap sounds like junk dont think I wver saw any that sad less the 250c on the package in my life
@@cdxer well that is geared towards PC I guess general thermal paste goes way higher I got 3 brands I just checked myself made for PC 260c to 350c maybe they are lying idk
@@MakingforMotorsport I have been struggling to find something that can work at high temp. Would you happen to know the brand? Thanks for this I was at my wits end with the clog. Although I am super efficient at clearing out the clog.
@@MakingforMotorsport Took me much longer than I care to admit to figure it out lol. Everywhere I kept looking was saying it was optional so I hadn't bothered. Now if I can just get the sunlu silk rainbow pla+ to print properly without clogging
@@MakingforMotorsport To be honest the high flow variant is a pain in my ass! ... Stringing issues but you´re able to control it with a lot fine tuning. And more than 1,89mm diameter will cause clogging. You can´t use cheap filament with it. Otherwise it´s a good hotend for that price range. But just my humble opinion. I wouldn´t buy it again I think. Maybe a Mosquito ... You can´t change the nozzle as good as with a Mosquito and I´ve never had issues with a Mosquito... no clogging, no stringing... you get what you´ve paid for ... or so...
I think the high flow ones are always going to be trickier with stringing, just a larger melt volume is always going to be likely to do that I think. I was thinking about the E3D volcano but I wouldn’t use it properly… hence the V6
I was having the same issue with heat creep. But I had my printer in an enclosure which was just making the fan circulate more hot air to the hot end. So I ended up keeping the enclosure open with a small fan blowing into in the printer. I did switch out my all metal hot end for the stock hot end because i ended up breaking the heat break. But I switched the stock heat break with the Slice Engineering heat break which basically turned it into an all metal hot end. I am using stainless steel nozzles, but I also have pointy hardened steel nozzles. Both left the same amount of stringing which was just as much as you showed in the video. I did use thermal paste in the heat break because why not. lol. Your video helped a lot.
I know, the volume is well off.... A Thousand apologies, I was (not so) young and stupid....
Click here for a fixed version - ruclips.net/video/zzNa6oqrJ8g/видео.html
No worries, I just assumed that I stumbled upon "3D printer thermodynamic troubleshooting" ASMR.
I know an AVE fan when I hear them.
Isn’t everybody???
I say it everytime now - on my own in the garage draining oil - “Release the schmoooo!”
I frikin love AVE his content is priceless!!!!
Gentlemennnnnnnnn welcome back to the shop
Ave: "keep your dick in a vice"
My: ol lady "what did he say?"
Me: *smiles at her and winks.
This clip probably saved someone's life as I was about to defenestrate my printer after a week of constant clogging after installing a spider pro that I thought was going to solve all my problems - was I wrong, it printed one benchy before wasting kilos of filament but finally the 1mm setting seams to have worked - also some great comments with some good ideas, thanks so much for the upload :)
Never use regular CPU thermal grease in the hot end area (the throat area is slightly cooler, but ...). Its working range is up to 150 C. The paste instantly turns to stone and it is difficult to disassemble it later. Use special high temperature thermal compounds.
Yes mate.... I use Hainziye which is rated up to 300degC....
I too bought a clone and I’ve had lots of string but I completely solved it by tightening the nozzle when hot as you said and then removing the two countersink pins that holds the hotend to the heat sink, OMG it’s been a game changer for me. Hope that helps 👍
Hi Mark, great minds think alike! Very soon after this video I tried removing the set screws and also changed to a ducted silent Noctua fan... zero stringing 👍 thanks for the comments and the watch!
Great video. I will say I struggled to hear your voice. I watch most videos on volume 6, had to turn this up to 25.
Haha! I thought 11 was the loudest! Thanks for the feedback, I think it was this video which inspired me to buy a new microphone! Hopefully my recent videos are better...
Same here. I had to go to the bathroom, with a closed door, to hear this video.
Had no issue hearing you, and I'm deaf on 1 ear and reduced sensitivity on the other. Wearing a headset though, but volume is several notches down from max (on phone with a cheapo active type-c dongle, not exactly a super powerful driver). But boosting the voice recording is certainly appreciated if your new mic don't "solve" it - shouldn't be much hassle when doing edited video anyway (not a single continous recording uploaded raw).
I think it helped (for me at least), that past the channel intro, there wasn't a bunch of background music during your dialogue, that would otherwise also get louder when cranking up the volume.
Few words for people replacing with all metal heatbreak and what I have absolutely tuned up:
1.) Lower the temperature you used to print PLA with. A LOT. I went from 210 to 190 °C. ABS can happily run at regular 245 °C. If you replaced heatblock by copper/brass one, lower the temp even more as it really has great termal conductivity. Higher temp materials wont have problem with clogging when printed at regular temps as those can sustain at least 20 °C more then PLA (55 °C melting point)
2.) Lower the retractions. 1.5 mm at max, by the size of the zone making the actual break.
3.) Go with Klipper firmware or at least better board (not 8 bit) so you can use Marlin Linear Advance (Klipper's Pressure advance work on 8 bit board as calculations are managed by Raspberry). That will completely eliminated stringing and blobs and retractions are there for „just in case“. But not needed that much.
All of these will allow you to print PLA on all metal heatbreak and much better materials like ABS and Nylon without any problems (well, ABS getting from heatbed is another subject)
Fantastic information… I have seen the linear advance piece in Marlin and looking forward to giving it a try!
@@MakingforMotorsport I've got the ENder 5 Plus this monday and not even bothered with Marlin. Klipper & Fluid are much, much better. Anyway, Linear/Pressure advance and most important, Input shaper to eliminated ringing will do wonders with quality of the prints.
If pressure advance is tuned up well, you will have hard time to find a seem on your prints :)
Thanks for the temp tip. Just changed mine on my ender6. Couple hours in, clog. Think it’s from heat creep due to me hitting those temps like I used to.
Problem is I changed everything because of a clogging issue from the tube to heat break from the stock one.
@@zozoartstudio4727 what are your retractions? For bowden, it really matters in case of all metal. I run my Dragon HF on Ender 5 Plus with 3 mm retractions BUT - Klipper firmware with pressure advance set on every filament.
PLA at 205 °C no problem, but I had hard clog with CF Nylon once and it wasn’t funny to get it out given how tough material it is. Lowerig temp by 10 °C helped completely.
Depends on your hotend cooling fan too, I run Sunon 4020 because only this gives enough airflow and pressure while quiet, Noctuas are no go.
@@ZhuJo99 let me start by saying I’m a complete amateur and have been doing this for months. So I apologize if I’m ignorant to some of this.
Not sure on what fan is on the Ender 6, still have it as stock. So far I haven’t felt it’s been an issue.. yet.
The retraction is what CURA defaulted it for the ender 6, at 10mm. I’ve tried 8mm and 6mm and I’ve had complete jumbled failures with those. (Could’ve been too cool temp on those but 190C shouldn’t have been cause for failure if this new copperhead heatbreak can run cooler with PLA, but who knows)
Today after a bunch of tests I finally had a successful one (except for the corners curling up a little)
I really wanted to make sure the issue wasn’t how I had put it back together, it had blocked up, but was it heatcreep? Was it not aligned? So I played with some settings, nothing crazy, minutia temp changes until finally No failure.
But I was thinking.
Maybe the printer, after heating up and cooling down a bunch of times has the hot end settling together with the new components.
U gata stop whispering my TV is all the way up can barely hear u but when ur intro plays it blows my eardrums out
Always run a PID calibration if you disturb the heat-capsule!
The heat-capsule needs a little shmoo, but not the thermistor.
A bit on the nozzle threads helps with steel nozzles.
There are three main factors that limit heat flow:
1) Air gap, 2) surface irregularities and 3) surface cleanliness/oxidation.
Shmoo displaces air, fills grooves and valleys and prevents oxidation.
Doesn't matter if the shmoo is loaded with silver-plated nano diamonds or boring old zinc oxide!
The thermal properties of the solid ingredients isn't as important as 'sealing' the gaps between parts.
Arctic Silver 5, my choice, works slightly better than bulk white generic 'heat sink compound'.
Hi, thanks for the comment! I didn’t do a PID tune for a couple of reasons, 1. The temperature is rock solid 2. I haven’t played with the firmware or done anything complicated with the printer, just kept it simple (I did another video on CF-PA with a “stock” Ender).
But the thermal grease was as cheap as I could get and I might upgrade next time (although i did get about 5 tubes!!)
@@MakingforMotorsport You'd need something better if you're "schmoo"ing the heater like Greg said. CPUs don't run at 200c(They cease functioning long before), so the compound doesn't hold together that high(it will start separating and maybe turning into other things).
You need industrial stuff. McMaster-Carr(an American industrial supply company) sells Boron Nitride syringes for about 12 USD. It is in fact suggested as the product to use for 3d printer heating blocks by MMC.
@@Grimmwoldds the point he applied compund to will nebver reach 200c and thermal compound from noctua is -50 to 200c
Oh boy.
Just so you (probably) already know, it’s not because it’s a cloned part, it’s the characteristics of all metal hot ends.
I myself got one of the original Micro Swiss ones and had nothing but frustration. I ditched it in the bottom of my parts drawer some eight months ago and went back to the stock hotend.
Now that I watched your video I’m ready to give it another try. Never considered using thermal paste, it solved your problem and will probably solve mine.
Cheers mate!
Not so sure… I know every all metal hot end has more problems than the standard hot end.
And anyway the Prusa uses a E3D V6 and runs PLA no problems…. (So that’s what I’ve bought now!)
How was it going?
Thank you for this great video. It solved my problems with bi-metal hotend.
This is a bit long, but I hope it moght be useful for others when troubleshooting stringing, oozing, retraction issues etc. Understanding the dynamics at work had helped me _a lot._
1.0mm of retraction on a bowden setup, even with tight tubing like capricorn etc, is pretty much "no retraction". There's usually a 0.2 to 0.4 (or more) mm larger diameter inside the bowden tube, than the filament diameter. As the extruder pushes filament through the bowden tube and there's (normal) resistance at the hotend, there's room in the (bowden) tube for the filament to absorb that force and tension, by bowing inside the tube. Kinda like taking the outside of *every* bend on a race track - when you do that in _all_ the bends, you're effectively doing longer laps than if you stayed in the center of the track.
The longer the tube, the more accumulated space the filament has to bow and flex. The result is that when pushing the filament, there's several millimeters more filament inside the tube, than the actual length of the tube itself. That filament inside the tube is under tension, maintaining that flex. Badly configured extruder e-steps can attenuate these issues.
So when doing retraction on a bowden setup, the first few millimeters of retraction doesn't actually cause any actual retraction of filament inside the hotend - it just relieves that pressure, so that now there's the same length of filament inside the bowden tube, as the length of the tube itself. This relieves the filament tension and reduces oozing.
Next, the hot (and the molten) segment of filament inside the hotend is sticky. So there's some resistance to physically pulling the filament back out. This results in the extruder needing to pull on the filament with force, causing the filament to bow inside the tube once again - this time similar to taking the _inside_ of every bend on a race track. So now you've added another 1-2 mm of retraction, but the result is that there's now a _lesser_ length of filament inside the bowden tube, than the length of the actual tube.
Only once the extruder has pulled out all the "slack" available for the filament to bow/bend/flex inside the bowden tube, do you get near-full transfer of "pulling force" from the extruder, onto the bit of filament inside the hotend so there's enough force to overcome the sticky friction. Only then, does the filament actually start moving (retracting) inside the hotend.
So with a bowden setup, it's not until _beyond_ 3-4+ mm of "retraction" at _the extruder end,_ that the filament _in the hotend_ actually start moving/retracting. 1mm of retraction, likely won't be enough even just to relieve the filament tension, to _mostly_ stop it oozing. It certainly won't cause actual retraction at the hotend, you usually need _at least_ 3-4 times that before filament retraction at the hotend actually kicks in.
Do note: This stuff doesn't notably change with an all-metal hotend, because the cause of it is the bowden tube between the extruder and the hotend. The tiny bit thst go inside a lined hotend, doesn't make a notable difference. And it's a fully straight section of tube, which is less conducive to filament significantly bowing inside.
So even with an all metal hotend you'd go for 4mm retraction? I'm about to give up on my hot end. I haven't tried normal retraction yet i went straight to what the internet recommended.
@@abgingernuts Or more. If you're having issues, 4mm is practically a minimum. Try 6 or even 7 first, see if that makes a difference at all
If it does, but too much, start dialing it down from there. As mentioned in OP, the mechanics of this doesn't change with an all-metal hotend, because the (room for) "slack" is in the bowden tube. Especially curved sections. Even with a PTFE lined hotend where the bowden tube goes all the way up to the nozzle, that last bit of bowden tube inside the hotend is straight and terminates in the nozzle so the filament doesn't bow or flex much in this small, 30-40mm section. With an all-metal hotend, there's a metal path for the last 15-30mm instead, but it has roughly the same bore size as the bowden tube so the effect on retractions are practically identical. The filament might sometimes stick a bit more to the interior walls of some All-metal hotends though, meaning in some cases you may need to add another mm or two of retraction, for the elasticity of the length of filament inside the bowden tube between the extruder and hotend to break the friction and pull the molten plastic at the nozzle back.
TL;DR
This is pretty universal with bowden setups. The "only" setups where you need less retraction (0.5-2.0mm range), is with direct drive extruder setups. For bowden, whether your hotend is all metal or PTFE lined, you need _at least_ 4mm - often significantly more.
@@pr0xZen i went back to a .4 nozzle but kept my hotend to knock out a variable as i was having issues. 5mm retraction seems to have it working well again! Thanks!
Whhaaaaaaat!?
@@fate2022 He is right though,
So here's my story. Bought a micro-swiss clone as well, no printing issues at all (still none). Then amazon stopped carrying it so when I needed it for my other 2 printers, I bought something "similar". I too had this clogging issue, but only like 10 minutes in. The hotends looked identical from the outside. Your video opened my eyes, yes of course the retraction was causing it. You have semi-melted filament trying to go back up a tight metal tube that won't give. So here was my fix. I slid some drill bits in the metal hole to see how tight it might be (figured mine was probably around 1.8mm, but don't have a pin gage set). This seems very tight, and quite excessive for metal since the filament really has nowhere to go. So I went up the next drill american drill size (2.1mm equivalent), and drilled all the way through to open it up so the semi-melted filament would still have space when it retracts. This 100% fixed my issue, and I suggest everyone try this (or at least verify how tight your metal throat is).
Seems risky but interesting
Great idea! 🧐 I found that, when it was clogging, the filament had cooled in the PTFE section to the larger diameter of the inside of the PTFE tube and wouldn’t go back down the all metal hotend (mine is much longer than the one shown in the video). I also reduced the retraction till it now works and stringing isn’t too bad but your idea is MUCH better.
My guess if that the all metal idea works well but some heat travels up the melted plastic material itself softening a long section of the plastic. Increasing hotend temperature probably makes it worse. I run at slightly lower temperatures too. PLA gets soft at 100 C so a nozzle running at 210C is going to heat up a lot of plastic before it even gets to the nozzle.
Love the “like a mini in the channel tunnel” to describe how loose the heat break is. 🤣
Yeah... there are several other, arguably more entertaining but definitely less family friendly!
When upgrading the hot end on my V2, I just went with the Slice engineering heat break. With the exception that it was longer than the OEM heat break by almost 2 mm it works great so far. That was after I sanded the 2 mm excess. I applied thermal grease only to the top part of the heat break that goes into cooler. BTW thermal grease is applied in a very thin layer on the break, its not meant to "fill" any voids. Applying thremal grease to the threads that go into the heater block isn't recommended since thats where you want the plastic to start melting. Because the Slice heat break is machined so well, I had to adjust the retraction rate down to .05-.08 (I'm running a direct drive). As for the 2 screws on the bottom of the heater block, when I first installed the heat break it was too long so I left out the 2 screws and attempted a print. The print went fine till the heater block spin around and wrecked the print. Why anyone says to remove them is just being silly. How many printers have them without an issue. They are meant to support and to align the heater block and not allow the block to spin and knock off the top of a print. If you feel that they should be removed go for it, just hot tighten the grub screw and hope it doesnt spin while your printing.
You are right that the screws are meant to stay there, but your heat block shouldn't be spinning around without them either.
It actually is supposed to fill voids. Except they're microscopic voids from parts not being perfectly machined. But Not gaps.
I'm struggling with my all metal PLA and clogging since I installed, so extremely frustrated. I'm going to try this now . If it works.. Gonna kiss you. Update: After +30 hours no clogging.
Sounds very familiar, I went all metal, other materials printed but PLA clogged... I wouldn’t even think of not using the thermal paste or going big (more than 2.5mm) on retractions with PLA again.
(And you don’t have to kiss me 😂)
@@MakingforMotorsport Omg, first successful print in a week, it worked or its a coincidence(I don't think so) , amazing. I only applied thermal to the barrel, not the nozzle. Thank you.
Excellent 👍 Good to hear! Happy printing! Now where’s my kiss??? 😘. 😂😂😂
@@MakingforMotorsport hahaha I know right?
CPU silver heat paste will degrade at above 140 C at best. Its not designed to go higher then 100 cause your CPU will shut down due to thermal protections. It will probably be fine for heat break / heat sync but it will hurt on the nozzle hot block.
Just looked at my package of kryonaut thermal paste. It looks like it's 350c! Artic silver is 130 though so get some kryonaut. I am not sure if thats long term temp so you might wanna double check.
Yeah the Thermalyse (I think) one I used in the video is good for 300 but your not the first to say that about the Arctic Silver 👍
You got a new subscriber mate! Amazing video, great explanations, perfect.
You are a life saver! I bought the a virtually identical model off aliexpress and was having constant jams. The thermal paste tip got that cheap little clone printing wonderfully!
Monshin! Thank you very much for the comment, that is exactly what Spurs me on for the next video 👍👍👍
@@MakingforMotorsport Ohh, so thats the fix, just add thermal paste? So why not start with that instead of wasting 11:30 of time?
@@fate2022 hehe! You know how this works yeah? I bet you’re great fun at a cinema! 😂
Also, MOST (not all) thermal grease/compound or glue/epoxy can "cook" and turn extremely hard and actually work as an insulator. Due to the close tolerances of the heater and probe, you don't actually need to use any compound on these parts. Plus if any of the grease gets into your print, its going to ruin it as well.
You are a true hero. Never thought of the thermal compound.
Sub'd :-)
Cheers bud! Make sure you get one that's got a high temperature rating, I used Halnziye from eBay
@@MakingforMotorsport Still some clogging going on with pla. But CF nylon prints fantastic.
Saw someone talking about conditioning the hotend with sewing machine oil. Might be worth a try.
You should try Ali Express takes long but I got the exact same style as that with a sensor and heat cartridge for 4.89 shipped been using it almost a year not one problem
You hit the nail on the head mate, the shipping takes ages and I don’t have that patience anymore, Amazon and never waiting more than a day have ruined me! I have heard good things about some AliExpress stuff tho... maybe I just need to plan more 🤔
the store which he bought from buy from Ali-Express then resell it haha
Good video. Could you maybe use tin foil instead of thermal grease? Just to decrease the gap and transfer the heat.
Never put thermal paste on a nozzle! And v6 nozzle on what looks like a mk8 hotend?
I just got so frustrated with my printer that I stopped using it. I was getting the “dug dug dug” of the filament struggling to feed and it got to a point where pretty much every print would fail. Now I can’t even remember how to use the thing. 3D printing was so frustrating. Good luck to you and glad to see that you had better results!!
It can be bad and I have been there… best thing to do at that point is to warm it up, clean up the filament, disassemble and start again… never fails to fix my clogging problems…
That sucks, Dave.
It seems like 3D printers in the 2020s are becoming the salt water aquariums of the 1980s, and as a guy who has successfully raised non-photosynthetic black sun corals AND has an Ender 3 that pretty much runs 24/7… in both of those cases I can honestly say that the general opinion of most people I know is, “There is no way I would have spent the time and money to learn what you’ve learned in order to do THAT.”
My response, generally, is, “Why not?” - but, there are times (days? weeks?) where I wholeheartedly agree it’s not worth it. So far I’ve been able to solve the problem at hand and push on through, though.
Interestingly, I think both of the above mentioned hobbies have the same problems: myths & misinformation, foreign fly-by-night equipment sources, and a lack of access to true experts and mentors because there aren’t very many yet - certainly not enough to mentor the hoards of new people getting into the hobby (and make no mistake: a 3D printer is not a device, it’s a person with skills that can operate that device)
There is one upside: it’s almost Christmas again, and about 6 weeks after that is when the first frustrated people will start putting their Christmas present printers on eBay, Kijiji, etc…
😕
(Sorry, make that 2 upsides… screwing up a mod or upgrade on a 3D printer doesn’t kill marine life … at least, not usually. 😎)
@@lucasthompson1650 You're partially correct, these are not machine meant for the casual guy thinking 3D is a cool concept. From my experience with my Ender 3 I can confidently say: I doesn't matter if you know what you're doing, these cheap machine simply have garbage designs. The sheer amount of problems I got just because the printer is the way it is, it way too much to be remotely close to acceptable.
My z-axis motor shouldn't have passed quality control. It was severely out-of-spec without proper calibration, losing a whole layer every 20 mm of upward travel. Had to buy a dial gauge just to catch this problem after months of failed prints and clicking like a woodpecker on crack. The magnetic bed also is not stable long term, developing a low spot in the middle severe enough to prevent any kind of sticking. I also had to print an entire mod just to allow the filament to enter the extruder without scraping, thanks to the big brain design of having the spool holder almost vertical. Also every now and then I've to reseat the PTFE tube, because again if it moves even slightly, the printer just clogs.
For me it's like having bought a unfinished product. I can understand why people just throw them away after a couple of weeks. Took me almost a year to get my Ender 3 _close_ to a working state.
If you get under extrusion and eventually clogs the fault is not the extruder nor the nuzzle and even not the slicer setting most likely. It's the bowden tube... trust me i almost throw my ender 3 v2 printer away trying figure out why it was under extruding and clogging.. my slicer settings were good, nuzzle was changed to new one event tho the old was less than 2 weeks old. extruder was running fine, never had or have adhesion problems my leveling is very good (quite proud of that). except the bowden tube.. You see the tube is twisting around while the printer works and the coupler that keeps the bowden tube in place cutting quite the grooves around where the little teeth holding it. now eventually thanks to that twisting and retractions causes the tube to move away from the nuzzle leaving a gap and that is where the clog starts, to be precise the tube clogs not the nuzzle.
There is a fix tho, a pritable fix. i can't recall the where i found the stl files for what you need or the video explaining it, but basically you cut a piece of tube you put it inside the hot end like you do normally only this time is going only a few inches above to where the coupler bottoms out, you have 3d printed something like a cone washer that goes after that and then the coupler that when tighten it sandwiches the tube between the nuzzle and the 3d printed washer, after that you place the tube from the extruder to the coupler only this time it goes as far as the washer you put inside.
It does not matter how much the printer move around or the tube from the extruder to the coupler, the piece of tube that is sandwiched inside of there is going nowhere.
Sorry if my explanation is long and maybe not sufficient enough or for any spelling mistakes and what nots, even though i can't recall where i found the stl file and video i hope you do.
i never run in any sort of problems after that fix ever. i hope that helps
No retract = stringing whatever you do. I have been printing similar manifolds as these featured on your video and print quality would benefit greatly from design upgrades. In this case a sacrificial or solid bridge connecting the tubes would also make a more rigid print.
I wish your voice was as loud as your intro, can't hear you dude.
Sorry chap.... Totally messed it up!
Generally, you do *not* want to put thermal paste around the nozzle: 99% of the time they are not meant to be used at these temperatures (remember you got rid of the PTFE tube for that reason).
One thing you could try, though, is to screw the nozzle all the way (back it off 1/4 turn and re-tighten once hot) and then screw the heatbreak: the heatbreak should see less thermal transfer from the heatblock
The temp rating of the grease has been mentioned in the comments before and this is rated to 300degC so no problems there, but it’s also a really good idea to maximise the amount of the nozzle in the heater block and minimise the amount of the heat break! Great shout 👍
TO UNCLOG i've just been sticking my hotend (slice copperhead w/heatbreak) in the oven when it gets clogged. the stuck filament should drip out when molten but if not shove an allen wrench through it while hot. i dread the day i start printing PEI/PEEK though because the oven doesnt get hot enough for those
First, stop whispering. I can't even hear you while I'm driving. Yeah I'm not supposed to watch videos while I'm driving. I wasn't really watching. I was just listening.
2nd, reduce your retraction speed to 20mm. 40 mm is way too fast .
Yeah it's counterintuitive but trust me, it'll work. At least for PLA and PET-G. When you get into the fancier filament it's all bits are off. And I'm curious why you're printing in nylon with carbon fiber. You should probably use ABS or ASA
Where did you order your fan, that you used with the fan duct you printed? Great video!
Hi, got it from Amazon, it’s a Noctua 4020 premium quiet fan, it’s so quiet it’s amazing.
Noctua NF-A4x20 PWM, Premium Quiet Fan, 4-Pin (40x20mm, Brown) www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07125KWG1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_BKPPJT8NFFNAXH9PZ9G1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
They either of the 12v versions work but you will need to wire one of these in to bring the stock 24v down to 12v...
6 PCS LM2596 DC-DC Buck Converter 3.0-40V to 1.5-35V Step up down Converter Module Adjustable Boost Converter DC Power Supply Voltage Regulator for 3D Printer, Camera, Computer Fans, QLOUNI www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B077VW4BTY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_MQ7YT8CP3TA85P2QPFRA?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Thats a Problem. U need more power the noctua is too weak for cooling.
I recomend Sunon Fans with a higher pressure and AirVolume/h
Physics cant be tricked :P
@@Qub1tus Hi, more cooling is always going to be better but I just balanced up the noise issue... all I can say is with the Noctua and the duct I haven’t had 1 heat creep clog... plus I get less stringing than the normal E3Pro cooler...
Physics can’t be tricked you’re right.... but helicopters prove that physics can be persuaded! 😂
I have the Micro Swiss Hotend what is close to yours, I have a retraction from 3 mm / 45 mm/s Temp is 5 - 10 C° more than normal, try to use that setting. Best regards
I know there is alot of comments at this point, but am I the only one that noticed that the nozzle was not installed properly? The nozzle should be screwed in all the the way and then backed out a quarter turn. Then the throat (heat break) should be installed. Once that is done, heat the hot end up and torque down the nozzle. There is way too much of the nozzle threads hanging outside the block which might be the whole reason for the stringing.
Yeah… you are right, I install it now a lot closer to the heater block, didn’t make much difference but did help.
I've been going crazy with this problem for a week
Slow down printer and it will reduce stringing
I will try that, as I have sped up the movement, but slowing down the print I haven’t.
Since the video I have removed the securing screws from the hot end and put on a silent Noctua fan which is ducted into the cooler, this has fixed 95% of the stringing... maybe slowing down will fix the last 5%!
That's good to hear
Use water cooling?
I might be a dummy but what do you mean by reprime? It drives me nuts that all these different programs have different names for settings. Im in cura if anyone can help translate
THANK YOU! This solved my issue! I was about to throw my printer out the window!! You are a Legend!
Sorry, but it was just a german dealer (Händler), the part itself is sure a china sh…. ;-)
damn man , my v6 clone is driving me nuts , if I print without retracts I have normal prints but lots of stringing , if I turn on retract it just clogs all the time clicking and skipping layers like crazy the worst part is that it began doing this when i tried to print gembird pla (which I never tried before) after printing only abs for some time , the worst part is if I print abs , no clicks , no clogs . so now the question is : does it have to do with the bad pla spool or is it that pla has rough surface and doesnt slide as good as abs does during retracts and advances and I had the bad contact of heatbreak with the heatsink all along ...
Its just heat creap probably. Buy a bi metal heatbreak that use titanium and copper. I hear the work great. Just ordered one on ebay for my CR 5 Pro H. Will try it out soon.
I tried the thermal paste and reducing the retraction but I did one thing few people do: I looked up fan cowlings on thingiverse and found an internal fan shroud that screwed on the BACK of the heat sink fan that directed more air to the heat sink and I've just about eliminated stringing now i have to back track to contend with the blobs. I to have an Ender 3 pro and have just about got it ready for CF nylon, just need a enclosure and a better bed plate. Glass is a bad idea for PETG so I'm looking at spring steel PEI sheet. I could use the back for the CF nylon.
Nice! What I do for CF-Nylon is use my glass bed with glue stick, and on the flip side of that I have my mag pad and the PEI spring steel, that way I can flip between surfaces without releveling!
Get a Mellow MS clone from Aliexpress they come with a real titanium heatbrake that is a snug fit and the heatsinks are machined from quality aluminium
Yeah, I have seen reviews of other clones and they do seem to have tighter tolerances than mine! It’s been made to work but if I have more issues I will probably get an E3D v6 style and try making this one water-cooled...
How have you got on with the mellow clone?
@@MakingforMotorsport The Mellow clone is great, I was expecting problems but it has all gone smoothly although I am considering tapping it so I can use the pneumatic Bowden coupling instead of the Bowden collet as I was getting a bit of movement with the Bowden tube but I solved that by wrapping a bit of PTFE tape around it to give a tighter fit and all is well now, I think those Bowden colets are designed for the white Bowden tube and I am using Capricorn, I have some of the standard white stuff and I will try this out on a second Mellow I have ordered for an additional Ender 3, I was wowed by the manufacturing quality of the Mellow, everything is machined from solid billets of aluminium and the aluminium is quality stuff, not just bog-standard 601, the inside of the heatbrake is lapped to a very smooth finish.
Oh, by the way, check this printer out, it is an Ender 3 V2 clone that is actually better than the original and only £129.30 Voxelab Aquilla www.voxelab3dp.com/product/aquila-diy-fdm-3d-printer
Its funny you say about the pneumatic fittings, I have a print fail last night because the Bowden fitting came out the the top of the hot end (probably my fault). I think you are right about the white bowden vs capricorn, it does seem to move more and it seems softer aswell so it gets torn up by the collets in the fitting.
That printer looks like outstanding value, if I tried to get a 2nd printer i'd have to print a 2nd set of ball 'cus the Missis would have my current pair!! Although I do know some thinking about joining the 3D printing revolution who I could tempt with this........
@@MakingforMotorsport Interesting. I do want to point out however that the fins on the nozzle would be pointless of you make it water-cooled. An interesting thermodynamic principle is that fins don't actually work in liquids.
Slow talker. Doesn’t cut to the chase.
All that needed to be said was “apply thermal paste at heat break”
Oh man. That is one scammy short, ill-fitting heatbreak. No wonder you had these issues. That heatbreak is usually 3-4x as long at the heatsink end including on any reasonably OK all-metal hotends. Even on decent clones.
That's exactly what the real-deal micro-swiss all metal hot-end and heatbreak looks like, so no reason it couldn't perform well.
some people remove the left and right screw as well to remove extra hot creep. very creepy.
One thing I noticed you missed in regards to heat creep on these all metal hot ends, the two long screws (silver Phillips head) are in place just to help align the heating end with the rest of the body and should be removed after the whole unit is tightened securely as they will cause 3x the heat transfer between the heated end and cooling body hence the heat transfer problems. Try removing these and you should get way better performance without the need of thermal paste.
This is an awesome video regardless and greate starting point for anyone to begin printing using these metal hot ends. Thank you for putting in the effort of recording this, you are much appreciated! 💯🌟👍
like....actually? I just got this style of hotend - so I am going to try that!!!!
CHEP youtube channel proved the screws are basically nothing to worry about. Decent *theory*, but the emperical heat transfer that actually occurs through the screws IRL is completely negligible in practice.
never use the hotend with these screws removed
0:02 wait is that what clogging sounds like i bout a whole new extruder cause of that noise
What you gained with this? I just tried a bimetal barrel with my ender 3 neo and I only got nothing but stringing and clogs withy PLA, went back to the stock barrel + teflon and somehow is working even better than before somehow. So, for PLA the all metal barrels don't make sense right?
Maybe speak up just a touch I can’t hear anything you’re saying
Step 1: Swap to a proper hotend (like an e3d v6). ;)
I bought a bimetal heatbreak ( that is actually for an Artillery printer ) from banggood, I replaced only the heatbreak in the stock ender hotend, added a stainless steel nozzle and it just worked.
Because the heatbreak was shorter than the standard steel one, I actually just left the heatbreak cilinder part stick out of the cooling side , it's being held by the grub screw and the two heatblock bolts.
I am now in the process of making another all metal hotend from a backup standard one I bought, now using a titanium heatbreak... fingers crossed :) .
I'm having the clog clog problem, not matter what retraction or temp I set. I bought the bimetal and waiting to arrive. Did you do any extra setting after installing it?
I saw CNC kitchen do a piece on the Bimetallic heat break and really boosted print speeds with it...hadn’t thought of using it to solve clogging. Did the bimetallic heat break work with the standard hot to make it all metal??? Do you have the link?
Hi Julian, are you using an all metal hot end? Have you tried going back to the standard hot end to rule out other problems?
@@duveral none, actually I didn't even do a PID tune. What I did different than any guide: I tightened the nozzle on the heat block with brute force to make sure there was zero gap between the nozzle and the bimetal heatbreak, that "tighten when hot " didn't go well to me in the past. I do have a noctua 40x10 instead of the stock fan, but the fan is actually weaker, so it should have more heat creep, but the bimetal heatbreak I think it's the key.
@@MakingforMotorsport yup , there is where I learned about the bimetal heatbreak, also from a channel called ruiraptor. Regarding the bimetal heatbreak, just search "creativity bi-metal heatbreak" , for ender the full-moon one is needed. Basically I bought the cheapest one I could find :-D , bought a spare hotend and mounted it on it just to see if it can work , and now it's my default setup :-D . It is full metal hotend now, I just printed nylon at 255C yesterday.
Warning: Many thermal pastes meant for computer parts are only tested and validated for the usual temperature ranges (like 0-100°C) and not for excessive heat of 200°C and above! Make sure to get properly validated thermal pastes for these temperatures, especially if you plan on applying thermal paste to parts of the heatblock!
a simple off-the-shelf thermal paste will be fine if you only apply it to the heatbreak-heatsink portion, but NOT for the nozzle, heating element or temperature probe!
Hi, thanks for the comment, this has been bought up before and the HY510 is good for 300degC, it appears that some of the more “high performance” compounds for gaming PC have the lower top end temps. But you’re right, always check!!!
This I learned the hard way. Ruined an expensive all-metal hot end.
why are you whispering?
increase travel acceleration to 2000mm/s/s to help stringing
with a all metal hotend u have to turn ur retractions down quite a bit from the stock boden system, i think my ender 5 was 5 ot 6mm/s for the retraction speed an 45mm distance i think i cant remember now its been so long but all i had to do was change the retraction speed down to 2.5mm/s an it was perfect. i did buy mine from microswiss an i went by their instructions an it worked great so for my ender 3 and aquila i just picked up clones of the microswiss first one was half the price so 30 an the last was only a quarter at 15 an they are both identical to the micoswiss so when installing them i did the same as i did for my ender 5 from microswiss an dropped the retractions an they have worked just as good as the microswiss. oh also did a pid tune.
It’s a tricky balance…. Enough retraction to not clog the hotend but enough to stop stringing…
Fortunately I don’t need to worry, I went the E3D V6 route and have no problems now 👍
@@MakingforMotorsport yea they work really well, i have a couple on my delta printers
i have the exact same keyboard
Need a pid tune
Speak up
Yeah... this video inspired me to get a better microphone!
have you played with e steps? a good e step calibration works wonders
Hi, thanks for watching! Absolutely, I should’ve mentioned that e-steps and nozzle temps are critical and an easy place to start (I had already done both) but these all metal hotend clogs seem to all be about retraction and heat creep as the clog is in the heat break. Do you have an all metal hot end?
@@MakingforMotorsport all metal, but non standard.... Slice Mosquito
That’s quite the piece of kit! What materials do you normally run with that beast??? I am just trying out some CF-Nylon but have eyes on the high end in time...
@@MakingforMotorsport mostly PLA or PTEG, have some C.F. ASA in the wings........ just another thought on the stringing.... have you re-calibrated the PID? Heard that if one changes anything re: hot end, the P.I.D. might need some tweeking. This changes some of the Marlin code in the EPROM of the motherboard of the printer.
CF ASA? Not seen that one, but CF seems to help a lot with stopping warping so it’s probably useful on ASA aswell. I didn’t do a PID, mainly because the temp is rock solid (I get more variation in my bed than hot end) and I was trying to keep the printer as stock as possible for a different video.
That said, I am planning on going SKR v1.4 turbo with Octoprint soon so any little tweak like that I will be happy to make...
Hi there!! I love your channel !! I am currently doing a project similar to yours with a speeduino and a 1.6 8v megane, I have designed the intake manifolds to adapt yamaha r6 carburettors !!!
but i'm having trouble with nylon printing. the finish is horrible, the pieces suffer from cracking ... I use a x1 artillery with direct extruder, all metal hotend ... any advice ???
If you want I'll leave you in the link of the page where I upload my designs in case you need any for future projects !!!
Hi there! Sounds like a great project! For the Nylon, have you dried it out properly? (Full spool on at 60degC for maybe 4hours), if it’s not been dried just before you start and it’s held in a low humidity environment it’ll soak up water from the air which boils in the hot end causing all kinds of problems…. I dry out thoroughly EVERY time before printing… check out my Nylon video for what I do 👍
@@MakingforMotorsport good afternoon!!! Yes, at the beginning I dried the filament at 80 ° in the oven for 3 hours. even so, when I print, cracking appears in the pieces and warping. I will try to close the printer in a closet to get a more homogeneous temperature. I have a profile in cad grab. If you want, I'll give you my link and take a look at the collectors I'm making. Best regards!!!
I’m so sorry but that’s a Belgium flag, not Germany.
🤦♂️
Thanks. Helpful
Your Pile of Jammed Junk is not as Big a mine... Waiting for all metal now :)
I don't have your exact problem as the clicking on appears during the first part of the print and seems to work okay after that and does not affect the print quality, very little if any stringing. I have a genuine Microswiss direct drive and all metal hot end. I use 0.5mm retraction. The one thing I found that helped is tightening up the tension that the extruder has on the filament. I use PETG exclusively as PLA just clogs which I did not understand until recently. I am printing in an enclosure and PLA needs airflow around it or it will cool to soon and cause clogs. I know a lot of people say PETG is stringy which initially I did have problems with, but I store it and use it from within a drybox with desiccant. I have not had any problems since. The humidity here is high around 50%.
Good that I found this video. I have an Ender 5 S1 with the stock Sprite extruder that developed alot of clogs recently. The application of thermal paste on nozzle & upper part of the heatbreak worked wonders.
On my MK8 hotends, I've used Teflon tape (aka PTFE) on the heatbreak's threads that go into the heatblock. It eliminated filament oozing out though the threads, and seems to reduce the heat transfer to the heatbreak/heatsink.
Why didn't you increase the retraction again? Most if all of the problem was the heat transfer right?
It was a combination really, so the heat soak was softening the filament too early and the retraction was just like pulling the trigger, with the paste I could increase retraction but only up to 2mm but still got stringing. Now I have also now removed the set screws and ducted the cooler fan i can run retraction at 2mm with almost zero stringing so I haven’t tried to increase is back up, but I think you’ll never get up the 3-5mm that you can with the standard hot end.
@@MakingforMotorsport Thanks for the reply, I was really curious about it. I've got an all metal hot end in the mail so i'll be going through the same thing with my bowden setup, good to know beforehand what the problems are. The one I got has a really thin heat break so it will be interesting to see if that makes a difference. Might need to convert to direct drive to have a low retraction length.
Are you whispering?
increase your volume.. I have to turn tv way up to hear you, but all other videos on tube burst my eardrums!!!!
;)
Yeah… I bought a new microphone after this video 😂
Hey man, are you still having 0 clogs with the thermal compound? This one has been biting me too on my all metals.
Hi, I haven’t had the clogging, I have had the odd skip at the extruder but that was from trying to go too fast, I haven’t even disassembled my hot end in about 3 weeks.. it just works 👍.
Hope you get yours sorted, are you using the thermal paste?
@@MakingforMotorsport not yet but I'm about to! I mostly addressed mine with a custom cooling setup to isolate the heatbreak and force more air over it but I do still get some clogs with TPU and PLA. I'll try the thermal compound and see if that helps. I hadn't even considered that to he honest and I'm a sysadmin who builds PCs on the side... lol. Thanks for the response man!
Thank you so much for this. I got the same clone hotend (minus the black paint) and was getting jamming non-stop. Was about to try seasoning the hotend but saw you're video and decided to go for it. It works great. I used some Thermal Grizzly thermal paste I had from a PC build I did, says it's rated up 350C so I should be good. Do you know how often one should replace the thermal paste? I didn't put any paste between the heat block and nozzle as I like changing nozzles often and don't want to cause more clogging issues. Seriously, thank you!
Hi Gil, thanks for the message, it’s great to know these vids are helping people!
As for how long, I honestly don’t know, I suppose the “simple” answer is when it starts clogging again but mine has been fine since I did the mod, nearly 2 months now... but maybe it’s about time I messed with it abit more??!! 🤔
@@MakingforMotorsport Yeah, that makes total sense. I'm expecting this to last a while since the heatbreak won't be getting nearly as hot as the heat block and I'll be investing in some better cooling options to help the thermal paste do it's job. Thanks again!
Too quiet
Your tips are good, but a common source of clogging all-metal hot ends
when printing PLA, is an inadquate cooling fan. The crummy, stock 4010
fans on many printers won't cut it. Decent upgrade fans cost
Absoltuely, an upgrade for me was a silent 4020 hot end fan…
All metal hot end as apposed to what? Isn't the stock hot end all metal anyway?
Nope. On the standard hotend the PTFE Bowden tube goes all the way through the heatbreak to the nozzle and butts up against it, this limits nozzle temps to less that 240-260 as above that it decomposes into gases you REALLY don’t want to breathe.
An all-metal hot end has a different hot-end which separates the Bowden tube from the nozzle and only the filament goes through. If the heatbreak gets too hot, especially on low temp filament like PLA, it melts, bingo…. That’s a clog.
@@MakingforMotorsport thanks for the reply, I was so confused
have you ever heard a narrator whisper?
i had a E3D V6 hot end !! i upgraded to 40 mil fan and in the adapter i made a hole where the heat break is .... so i had just enough draft to move the hot air coming up from the heat block to the heat break and that solved my problem ... im going to try the thermal paste thing when i get home
Interesting, how the thermal paste holding up? I wonder about it drying out maybe.
It definitely drys out, but generally, as long as it's not disturbed then its fine, it still provides a decent bridge....
Voice intro - so low I had to 100% volume and get earpiece
Intro music - so loud it hurt.
Voice again - so low the earpiece had to go back in.
Please.. do a huge favor and equalize your volumes. This is a pretty easy step to do in video editing before you upload it.
This was one of my early vids and I pay alot more attention to it now!
Why are you whispering?
Yeah… YT newb there I’m afraid… check out pinned comments for a version with the audio sorted 👍
If you plan to keep on the whispering you should consider turning up the volume, had to turn on the CC because i cant hear what you say. You are about 50% of everyone elses volume.
Yeaaaah…. I messed this video up 🤦♂️
Get a mosquito clone, it'll solve all your problems
I had V6 hotend before, and had the same issues, caused by heatcreep, and not enough cooling on the cold end
Sadly all of these types of hotends has the same issue, heatcreep
The mosquito has bimetal heatbreak which solves these issues, also a lot more effective cooling on the cold end
With it it doesn't really matter how much my retraction is, it never clogs, since I have it I never had any clogs
I'm printing with pla, petg, abs, asa, tpu, soon I'll try to print nylon(66, mega prone to warping) if I finished the chamber heating
Also nozzles
Most cheap ones has a 120 degree cone at the end of the nozzle inside, super prone to clogging, the correct angle is 60, probably the material burns in the sharp corners and when it gets out it blocks the nozzle, or simply the flow resistance is that much higher in the 120 degree ones
Great bit of information… I went for the V6 because they are the Prusa standard (I think) and that seems to cope well enough with PLA? We’ll see I suppose! I’ll have a look out for those nozzles aswell 👍
I would increase the retraction to about 3mm and see if the stringing is better.
Also... retraction on a bowden ender 3 should be ~4-6mm. That'll kill the stringing instantly.
On a completely standard Ender, you’re right but with an All metal hot end, anything over 3mm retraction is a recipe for clogging, as it pulls molten filament into cool metal.
That’s often why all metal hot ends go well with direct drive extruder (look at a Prusa) as the retraction can be super accurate and as little as possible…
easiest way is go for larger nozzle
Combing to reduce stringing
I bought the exact same hotend from the same ebay seller and it is clogging like crazy!!!!!
After I did the video I printed and fitted a “fang” fan arrangement, www.thingiverse.com/thing:3504842 this has a fan duct to put all the cooler fan directly onto the heat sink. This reduced the stringing to zero even with 1mm or so retraction, now no clogging AND great quality!
Hopefully the changes, thermal paste, retraction settings and more air on the cooler help you get yours sorted! Stick at it!
Also, forgot to mention, I can print with no clogging on PLA, PETG and Nylon but if I try Glow In The Dark PLA it’s a battle, some filaments are better than others
@@MakingforMotorsport When I begin to feed the filament it starts coming out from the nozzle with ease but then it keeps clicking and gets stuck for some reason.. 😔😔
@@JohnWayne99999a so you can push the filament through with your hand at the print temp but when you start printing it starts clogging? What is your retraction setting? As long as the nozzle temp staying there that shouldn’t be the problem so it sounds like it’s heat soak and retraction.
Something else I have done since the video is remove the 2 screws holding the heater block to the cooler, and just tightening up the nozzle to the heat break hard keeps everything together. This puts less heat into the cooler so it runs less hot.
@@MakingforMotorsport I set the retraction to 1mm, so maybe I should try to disable it completely and see what happens. I am quite confused and frustrated right now. It just makes no sense for the extruder to work and let the filament out when I push it through by hand but then, when I hit print it suddenly clogs up after 10 seconds or so.
Edit. I am doing some tests. I just unscrewed the nozzle and let the filament run through the titanium tube while lowering the temperature down to 100 degrees. No issues so far. I wonder if the problem is the nozzle at this point..or the connection between the tube and the nozzle
I'm wondering if it's the coating or anodizing on the heat sink
Is it possible to just purchase or machine a 3 or 4mm longer heat break? And about .005 larger in diameter...
They seem to be in stadnard sizes so I'm not sure which is wrong, the cooler or the heat break.... I'd thought about making one but.... thermal paste is the answer! (or maybe a non clone hot end 🤣)
This is the best cooling system (with stock parts) for ender 3. It uses inverted flow... no more hot air to bed.
Wow thanks...I really needed this info. I was getting ready to hang it up with MicroSwift.
Glad it helped!
Also check your fans if there is any dust build up on the blades, dust would restrict the airflow
cant hear you speak but your music intro is off the wall lol, in we are the smart ones lmaoooooo! good info tho/ update Anyone reading this look up Blackshark FAN For gaming phones, Its a heat sink, A lil air conditioner i attached mine to the fan housing it seems to do the trick adding cooler air being put on the all metal end dont change your slicer settings try 1 thing at a time i got no stringing i didnt change
Check the thermal paste. Many are not made to be used above 220°C or so.
This one is good for 300degC
Sty. It is not German. It's a fake. Thx for the vid anyway
Yeah..... the lovely rattle the heat brake made in the cooler gave me a clue!
Also NEVER use CPU thermal grease on these. It isn't rated for temps as high as what we use in 3D printing.
Thermal Grizzly paste is rated up to 350°C, Arctic MX-5 goes up to 180°C
Also the Cold-End doesn't get nearly as hot as the heaterblock. This is exactly what the heat-BREAK is supposed to do.
that thermal grease is meant for cpus that are running at 50c to 80c, not 250c
Hi, thanks for the comment. I did check the specs and it’s good for up to 300degC, which is more than enough for me, it’s cheap so I actually probably wouldn’t use it on an expensive CPU, but here it is definitely better than nothing and has shown to do the job!
If you buy thermal grease that brakes down at only 80c that's some major crap sounds like junk dont think I wver saw any that sad less the 250c on the package in my life
@@RespawnRestricted arctic silver for example, specially states -30c to 130c
@@cdxer well that is geared towards PC I guess general thermal paste goes way higher I got 3 brands I just checked myself made for PC 260c to 350c maybe they are lying idk
@@MakingforMotorsport I have been struggling to find something that can work at high temp. Would you happen to know the brand? Thanks for this I was at my wits end with the clog. Although I am super efficient at clearing out the clog.
sorry but i can't hear you
Yeah mate… I screwed the sound up on this one! 🙈
I used Boron Nitride paste from Slice engineering on my Gulf Coast Robotics hot end, eliminated my heat creep issues.
The compound is mandatory I think on every all metal. Even the E3D V6, which has nice fit still needs it.
@@MakingforMotorsport Took me much longer than I care to admit to figure it out lol. Everywhere I kept looking was saying it was optional so I hadn't bothered. Now if I can just get the sunlu silk rainbow pla+ to print properly without clogging
Muahahaha! "NOOOOOOOO, NOT AGAIN!!!!!"
That´s it! .... Damn Pheatus Dragon Hotend!
Haha…. So I take it you don’t recommend that hot end? 😂
@@MakingforMotorsport To be honest the high flow variant is a pain in my ass! ... Stringing issues but you´re able to control it with a lot fine tuning. And more than 1,89mm diameter will cause clogging. You can´t use cheap filament with it. Otherwise it´s a good hotend for that price range.
But just my humble opinion. I wouldn´t buy it again I think. Maybe a Mosquito ... You can´t change the nozzle as good as with a Mosquito and I´ve never had issues with a Mosquito... no clogging, no stringing... you get what you´ve paid for ... or so...
I think the high flow ones are always going to be trickier with stringing, just a larger melt volume is always going to be likely to do that I think. I was thinking about the E3D volcano but I wouldn’t use it properly… hence the V6
I was having the same issue with heat creep. But I had my printer in an enclosure which was just making the fan circulate more hot air to the hot end. So I ended up keeping the enclosure open with a small fan blowing into in the printer. I did switch out my all metal hot end for the stock hot end because i ended up breaking the heat break. But I switched the stock heat break with the Slice Engineering heat break which basically turned it into an all metal hot end. I am using stainless steel nozzles, but I also have pointy hardened steel nozzles. Both left the same amount of stringing which was just as much as you showed in the video. I did use thermal paste in the heat break because why not. lol. Your video helped a lot.
Nice one! If I am running PLA (my most cloggy material) I keep the enclosure door open. That Slice heartbreak does look good…