very nice written and explained! thanks.. may u have more on different, better said other topics? could I somehow contact you and maybe even ask youba few questions? hopefully my vocabulary and grammar is acceptable.. wish you a nice day!
Point is GH takes less rope than f8 but ''tests also revealed significant variability among slip values, ranging from 2.5 to 21.5cm '' so you might want at least 21,5 cm
So reading the research there’s slippage involved so depending on where the break is and taking into account slippage it may not be redundant is my take.
Is that redundant though? If one of the carabiners on the anchor failed, would the friction in the girth hitch be enough to keep the sling from coming undone? Especially in a shock loading scenario. Just curious.
Yes! My friend and Mountain Guide at Weber State University in Utah has a paper on it. I tried to paste it here, but for some reason RUclips is not allowing it. A quick Google search should see it through. I also have done testing on the girth hitch with Petzl and the AMGA and it showed redundancy under all climbing scenarios tested. Under a slow pull at incredible loads (those seen in slack lining for example) it is not redundant in some instances.
Not hindered by any form of climbing knowledge, but quite familiar with knots and ropes, imho it is not redundant, there's a scenario here where the sling breaks, and it will all come loose.
Hownot2 debunked this. However, even if they didn't, would you be concerned if your 24kn sling went down to 12kn. That's as high/higher than all your nuts and cams. You're also belaying from above in this situation, so I'd be amazed if you could even get to 2kn on a fall.
@@gregschlosser922 That is interesting, I will have to watch his video. To answer your question, yes I would be concerned. There's many more factors to consider than just "kn forces" so many, that it is impossible to truly get a solid, set point of guarantee failure. That being said, carabiners, slings, etc, way too often break with far less force than they are rated for. So, to lessen that amount is just stupid. I will ask you the same kind of question that you just asked me with different words. Would you be concerned if your carabiner was cross or side loaded? Cause "you'll never generate that much force"? Again, my answer is: yes, I would be concerned.
I'm purely a sport climber, and maybe a bit old school, but it just looks so weird having metal on metal like that. Just get a double length runner or some cord, much easier
I hear you. As someone who started climbing whilst this was still a popular idea, it initially made me uncomfortable. It took a great deal of research (both read and participated in with companies) and historical misconceptions to realize where the idea came from and why it is inaccurate. Historically, this idea is from a time of more normalized mixed metal usage (steel vs aluminum). Over long periods of time, this can cause galvanic corrosion, but this typically happens from long term usage (bolts with additional hardware). Nowadays, the areas in which we would use this kind of system is primarily with aluminum. There is no issue with bodyweight at an anchor with this kind of use of metal to metal. Also, in this context, it is best to utilize a carabiner designed to withstand this kind of tiaxial loading. In this case, a dedicated HMS style carabiner.
It’s interesting, but I have my doubts about that girth hitch being redundant, especially if you were to jumar on it. For limited material like the situation you described, the magic X would probably be best. Also, locking carabiners from the anchors to the sling would be good, but I understand that wasn’t the point of the video.
Totally understandable to be skeptical, however it has been tested thoroughly. So long as the girth hitch is weighted under bodyweight first, it is indeed redundant. Under climbing scenarios, this system is good to go. It also does not introduce a serious shock load issue that is created something like the sliding x. The girth also has the advantage of being able to be used with any anchor situation, including edge-case scenarios where a potential failure would cause a shock load and subsequent anchor failure of using self-adjusting systems like the quad or sliding-x.
if you were to just use one ring as the masterpoint and add a quickdraw to the second bolt for redundancy, it wouldnt fullfil any of those fancy acronyms, but realisticaly, it would still be good enough, right?
If you feel so comfortable with that technique, remove one side of the anchor and rapel or lower or take a bid fall on just one side. Bring the proper gear and using a short cut isn't necessary.
I'd probs only use this as like a past resort rappel point if I was desperate. So basically never. That girth hitch will slip at 4kns, and any kind of cyclic loading i.e jumaring, a rappel with lots of obstacles and features, could also cause slipping. Definitely a last resort
Remember when you tie a girth hitch, it loses 50% of it's strength. Also a big fall would definitely untie this anchor should a caribeener brake. I could not recommend this...
@@DaneFerolin doesn't mean he knows the physics of knots, especially a super static material like dyneema. Figure eight knot preferably, or overhand with a locker in the system to make untying easier after loading it
Is it good to use aluminum carabiners on one another? I thought they pick up burs and have potential to cut your ropes. I may be wrong. My technique is 20+ years old
imho, not redundant because tensil strength of sling is still the linear max, not double. it will be single strength at horizontal "over" strand of sling. simple tension physics.
As a tree climber, screw gate carabineers just don't seem safe to me. Our industry standard is to use a triple locking carabineer. In my early days before I knew any better I actually had a screw gate open on me thankfully it wasn't my only tie in, or I'd be dead. Could a rock climber please explain to me why y'all use screw gates instead of triple lockers.
Many climbers don't like them because they can be difficult to deal with at the top of a pitch when you're gassed and your hand strength is gone. Also, you have to think about the environments. Screw gates are simpler mechanisms and have fewer issues with grit or ice getting in there. One of my triple lockers grinds every time you open it because a tiny amount of grit got in there. I use all types, but I prefer twist locks because they auto lock, but aren't so difficult with tired hands. Don't forget that weight is a huge issue too. The vast majority of carabiners that climbers use are wire gates like at the top of his anchor. A screw gate is already way safer than that.
Joining one carabiner to another is not good practice, they're not designed for that. Only for "soft" connections, especially if subjected to high dynamic forces such as belaying
Talk to a sailor who does this for a living, not you amateur climbers. That girth hitch is not redundant. I personally witnessed them fail and pull through.
Halbmastwurf sicherung. (Literally, Half a Clove Hitch). These carabiners are designed to accept the symmetry and mechanism of a Munter hitch. Wide at one end so it can accept loads over a wider surface area than standard carabiner shapes.
I thought that a girth hitch or a knot reduces the strength of the sling by 50%. This does not seem safe to me, but I've never climbed a rock. In Florida, all we have is trees, so I'm an arborist.
@@codykennedy8359 my sling and most are rated at 22kn. Some Dyneema is higher. That means tying a knot reduces the the strength to 11kn. That's a 2200 lb reduction, for a knot. Now, would you rather have a 44kn rating by doubling the sling over, which could handle nearly every whip ever. Or one that holds 11, but when it breaks has another 11 as a backup? I've watched hundreds break testing videos and the only knot that remains 80% is the figure 8, which is why we use them at rhe harness. For me, I'd rather not have a compromised piece of gear that could break at under manufacturer's rated kn. Besides, dyneema isn't supposed to be tied into knots, it's very slippery and can cut itself under friction.
This is what lazy climbers do. Girth hitch should only be used at the anchor point, not the master point. That is not redundant. If one leg goes, you lose all friction to keep the hitch tight. Please don't do this.
Then I guess the research is wrong? And that my lying eyes as well as the hundreds of times I have used this system myself after seeing and actually being there when at least one of them was being performed was just not reality?
@@CodyBradford @Cody Bradford it might have worked hundreds of times, but all it takes is once. You also have a duty when attempting to instruct in the climbing industry to ensure what you are saying is true. As a professional in this industry, I'm telling you this is not redundant. Now you can learn from that and move on, or be stuck in your thoughts and change nothing. Either way it's your right. But to instruct others something incorrect... especially when it's a fatal vs not is unacceptable.
@@Relic_of_You I am literally dumbfounded… flabbergasted even… I just don’t know what amount of research and findings it will take to show that this system is redundant in the context I have shown. You can absolutely send me research to the contrary, but in the meantime, you are just incorrect. Calling me out in this way as if I have never had my mind changed (literally search any Instagram video in the last several years) is just asinine.
@@CodyBradford 1.2 kn at 7:50. I'm all for a snappy efficient anchor, but its pretty concerning how varied the results with a girth hitch are. That being said I think 99.9 % of climbers go a lifetime without something severing a leg in one of their anchors while it's loaded with 2 kn.
@@cz3582 staff.weber.edu/derekdebruin/research/girthhitch.pdf And here we consistently got 6.5-7 KN. In the video you sent, it didn’t look like the girth hitch was ever cinched at all. Not only did this research both Weber and myself have done with Petzl show upwards of 8KN of force ability both static fall and slow pull of up to 10KN, but anecdotally I have used the girth hitch in situations such as ice climbing and rock for 5 years or more at this point without a single issue. 2 KN is absolutely false as I have put more load on these than that with just 3 people’s bodyweight.
Du hast vergessen dich selbst zusichern, beim einrichten des Standplatzes!! Der Mastwurf Konten ist erst später die Selbstsicherung! Bandschlingen, Daisy Chain.
A quad definitely works well as a quick and organized solution when there are two unquestionable bolts as the anchor. However, it is ill advised to use a quad in most other scenarios as the potential for shock load in the event of a component failure is a serious issue.
That won't actually do anything for the redundancy as the girth hitch does not rely on the twist (extra strand) for redundancy as the sliding-x does. The girth itself is the redundancy here.
Totally wrong what he is doing! It is a total mess! You do not put 3 HMS in oneanother! 1. The sling must be attached to the bolts with HMS! 2. Self assurance with HMS in the bold. 3. To secure your partner: HMS in the sling like he shows it.
@@jackvanlierop6090 I get it and I don't iike it. The anchor or his lame pandering channel. Also the sling is technically NOT redundant. An overhand or figure 8 at the masterpoint would be better practice. A girth hitch also weakens the knot big time. A clove hitch would be much better. Also he could clip directly into bolts and not tie up the abseil slings for his anchor.
@@EliteBagpiper I like how you said you get it, then proceed to demonstrate how you do not get it. Maybe watch and learn next time, instead of putting on the blinders.
Before commenting, please read this first: staff.weber.edu/derekdebruin/research/girthhitch.pdf
very nice written and explained! thanks.. may u have more on different, better said other topics? could I somehow contact you and maybe even ask youba few questions?
hopefully my vocabulary and grammar is acceptable.. wish you a nice day!
*keep up the awesome work! really just so nice you give this information and make it accessible to everyone who's interested innit!! thanks again..
Point is GH takes less rope than f8 but ''tests also revealed significant variability among slip values, ranging from 2.5 to 21.5cm '' so you might want at least 21,5 cm
So reading the research there’s slippage involved so depending on where the break is and taking into account slippage it may not be redundant is my take.
RIP you will forever live in our memories through these videos.
He dead ?
@@jayheikkeinen2000 committed suicide
@@seasonti8312 man this is heartbreaking. Check in on your people
@@jayheikkeinen2000 heck yeah I loved watching his videos. At least he wanted his followers to be better climbers and be safe.
What happened
Is that redundant though? If one of the carabiners on the anchor failed, would the friction in the girth hitch be enough to keep the sling from coming undone? Especially in a shock loading scenario. Just curious.
Yes! My friend and Mountain Guide at Weber State University in Utah has a paper on it. I tried to paste it here, but for some reason RUclips is not allowing it. A quick Google search should see it through.
I also have done testing on the girth hitch with Petzl and the AMGA and it showed redundancy under all climbing scenarios tested.
Under a slow pull at incredible loads (those seen in slack lining for example) it is not redundant in some instances.
@@CodyBradford Awesome, good to know! Thanks for the info, ill definitely look into it.
There are definitely some dissenting opinions and testing. I would not trust a girth hitch to be redundant
@@deapthought1156 in defense of Cody hownot2 was doing a break test which does not represent actual climbing activities.
Came here to say the same thing.
My favorite part about the climbing community is watching you guys argue about every little thing. Definitely a fun group to be around!
Not hindered by any form of climbing knowledge, but quite familiar with knots and ropes, imho it is not redundant, there's a scenario here where the sling breaks, and it will all come loose.
Fun fact: girth hitch lessens the strength of the rope by half, given the distribution of force
Hownot2 debunked this. However, even if they didn't, would you be concerned if your 24kn sling went down to 12kn. That's as high/higher than all your nuts and cams.
You're also belaying from above in this situation, so I'd be amazed if you could even get to 2kn on a fall.
@@gregschlosser922 That is interesting, I will have to watch his video.
To answer your question, yes I would be concerned. There's many more factors to consider than just "kn forces" so many, that it is impossible to truly get a solid, set point of guarantee failure.
That being said, carabiners, slings, etc, way too often break with far less force than they are rated for. So, to lessen that amount is just stupid.
I will ask you the same kind of question that you just asked me with different words. Would you be concerned if your carabiner was cross or side loaded? Cause "you'll never generate that much force"?
Again, my answer is: yes, I would be concerned.
@@BlackPantherClimbing you are stupid
But if one bolt fails, would the system not just come unsecured? Looks like it would just slip through?
Why not just do a sliding X?
Why not doing a "sliding X"?
Not enough material and the sliding is is hard for your follower to tether to 👍. Since the sliding x is self equalizing.
Thanks for the video, Can’t wait to play with this system!
I'm purely a sport climber, and maybe a bit old school, but it just looks so weird having metal on metal like that. Just get a double length runner or some cord, much easier
I hear you. As someone who started climbing whilst this was still a popular idea, it initially made me uncomfortable.
It took a great deal of research (both read and participated in with companies) and historical misconceptions to realize where the idea came from and why it is inaccurate.
Historically, this idea is from a time of more normalized mixed metal usage (steel vs aluminum). Over long periods of time, this can cause galvanic corrosion, but this typically happens from long term usage (bolts with additional hardware). Nowadays, the areas in which we would use this kind of system is primarily with aluminum. There is no issue with bodyweight at an anchor with this kind of use of metal to metal.
Also, in this context, it is best to utilize a carabiner designed to withstand this kind of tiaxial loading. In this case, a dedicated HMS style carabiner.
@@CodyBradford negative. it's because of mechanical leverage in twisting events popping gates.
It’s interesting, but I have my doubts about that girth hitch being redundant, especially if you were to jumar on it. For limited material like the situation you described, the magic X would probably be best. Also, locking carabiners from the anchors to the sling would be good, but I understand that wasn’t the point of the video.
Totally understandable to be skeptical, however it has been tested thoroughly. So long as the girth hitch is weighted under bodyweight first, it is indeed redundant. Under climbing scenarios, this system is good to go. It also does not introduce a serious shock load issue that is created something like the sliding x.
The girth also has the advantage of being able to be used with any anchor situation, including edge-case scenarios where a potential failure would cause a shock load and subsequent anchor failure of using self-adjusting systems like the quad or sliding-x.
Its not redundant. ruclips.net/video/-MmX8h4F0po/видео.html
if you were to just use one ring as the masterpoint and add a quickdraw to the second bolt for redundancy, it wouldnt fullfil any of those fancy acronyms, but realisticaly, it would still be good enough, right?
Yep! I would say so. Those rings are getting popular.
Sweet! I usually do an overhand knot. I’m gonna change to this now!
If you feel so comfortable with that technique, remove one side of the anchor and rapel or lower or take a bid fall on just one side. Bring the proper gear and using a short cut isn't necessary.
I'd probs only use this as like a past resort rappel point if I was desperate. So basically never. That girth hitch will slip at 4kns, and any kind of cyclic loading i.e jumaring, a rappel with lots of obstacles and features, could also cause slipping. Definitely a last resort
Please read the study I posted.
Remember when you tie a girth hitch, it loses 50% of it's strength.
Also a big fall would definitely untie this anchor should a caribeener brake.
I could not recommend this...
I believe that is true for all knots. This would still leave the sling with 11kn of strength which is plenty of strength.
Hes a mountain guide
@@DaneFerolin doesn't mean he knows the physics of knots, especially a super static material like dyneema. Figure eight knot preferably, or overhand with a locker in the system to make untying easier after loading it
@@gbay5250 okay Mr mountain guide
@@DaneFerolin that's so sick dane, lmk if you ever got off boulders
Is it good to use aluminum carabiners on one another? I thought they pick up burs and have potential to cut your ropes. I may be wrong. My technique is 20+ years old
imho, not redundant because tensil strength of sling is still the linear max, not double. it will be single strength at horizontal "over" strand of sling. simple tension physics.
I tried this out and it seems pretty solid.
Aren't you loading the gate side of your HMS here ?(your belay device really seems to be loading the gate side in case of a fall )
What if the sling breaks. Not really redundant, is it?
If one fails you could still fall since the rope might just slip through?
I would not say that this is redundant without a knot - and it’s also really weird with mental to mental.
Yeah, if you attached the HMS biner then tied an overhand, you'd have two strands on each length and it doesn't take up much space.
Don’t die mufasa
That is not a redundant tie-off. You still HAVE only one sling attached to two anchors - no back-up. If that sling fails, so do you....
Perfectly simple.
he really likes carabiner!
As a tree climber, screw gate carabineers just don't seem safe to me. Our industry standard is to use a triple locking carabineer. In my early days before I knew any better I actually had a screw gate open on me thankfully it wasn't my only tie in, or I'd be dead. Could a rock climber please explain to me why y'all use screw gates instead of triple lockers.
Many climbers don't like them because they can be difficult to deal with at the top of a pitch when you're gassed and your hand strength is gone. Also, you have to think about the environments. Screw gates are simpler mechanisms and have fewer issues with grit or ice getting in there. One of my triple lockers grinds every time you open it because a tiny amount of grit got in there. I use all types, but I prefer twist locks because they auto lock, but aren't so difficult with tired hands. Don't forget that weight is a huge issue too. The vast majority of carabiners that climbers use are wire gates like at the top of his anchor. A screw gate is already way safer than that.
How do climbers get their gear back?
What is an HMS carabiner? A hardened metal screw closure? Help me out dudes
Metal on metal connection no go
watch how not 2 locker brake test
they all good for 20kn metal on metal
I have never searched cliff anything , why ?
Joining one carabiner to another is not good practice, they're not designed for that. Only for "soft" connections, especially if subjected to high dynamic forces such as belaying
Awesome tip
Cheers, my friend! Will try to start utilizing this platform more often. I have way more on Instagram, however it is getting more challenging to use.
you have successfully constructed a fantastic shear point under potential shock load. Please don’t do this just because it saves You 22 seconds…..
What? How?
Нельзя же такие карабины нагружать на 3 точки. Если я правильно вас понял
How about using a figure eight belay device, instead of the hms?
He's using a tuber I think
Talk to a sailor who does this for a living, not you amateur climbers. That girth hitch is not redundant. I personally witnessed them fail and pull through.
Forgot the magic X.
🔥
There is zero redundancy
HMS carabiner?
Halbmastwurf sicherung. (Literally, Half a Clove Hitch). These carabiners are designed to accept the symmetry and mechanism of a Munter hitch. Wide at one end so it can accept loads over a wider surface area than standard carabiner shapes.
@@CodyBradford Thank you. 😊
you explain that so good you want to be a teacher this was very informative I’m not a climber hiker but The information was spot on
You could loose one of those non lockers too
No way!!
Self adjustable would be better
❤
If I carried that many carabiners on a climb, I'd never get off the ground ;-)
Haha it’s true, as a guide I do tend to carry a couple of extra lockers.
RIP
I thought that a girth hitch or a knot reduces the strength of the sling by 50%. This does not seem safe to me, but I've never climbed a rock. In Florida, all we have is trees, so I'm an arborist.
Tying a knot here makes it redundant though, so if one side breaks the whole system won’t fail
@@williamspencer1935 redundancy is awesome! I see
Also, the slings you use for these scenarios are very over-rigged for the forces they will see in a fall:)
@@codykennedy8359 my sling and most are rated at 22kn. Some Dyneema is higher. That means tying a knot reduces the the strength to 11kn. That's a 2200 lb reduction, for a knot. Now, would you rather have a 44kn rating by doubling the sling over, which could handle nearly every whip ever. Or one that holds 11, but when it breaks has another 11 as a backup? I've watched hundreds break testing videos and the only knot that remains 80% is the figure 8, which is why we use them at rhe harness. For me, I'd rather not have a compromised piece of gear that could break at under manufacturer's rated kn. Besides, dyneema isn't supposed to be tied into knots, it's very slippery and can cut itself under friction.
@@williamspencer1935 use 2
Biner on biner makes me cringe. I came up learning never to do that. I get that it's likely fine, but still makes my spidey sense tingle
That’s a new one for me, thank you!
This is what lazy climbers do. Girth hitch should only be used at the anchor point, not the master point. That is not redundant. If one leg goes, you lose all friction to keep the hitch tight. Please don't do this.
It's the gloves for me. Did you put them on just to build the anchor
Is this for top roping?
No, this is for the multi-pitch environment in certain situations.
@@CodyBradford cool
😔
NoW iT’s ReDunDaNt
Sliding X will balance the load between the anchors even if the angle of load changes.
Whenever we working with limited amount of material, we need extra hms carabiner, wtf
Biner on biner is no no.
Hmm.. your definitely putting a lot of stress on the sling.. larks foot weakens by 40%
That sling is probably rated to 22+ kN. What are you worried about?
@@johngo6283 Simple: in a fall factor 2 , 60% of 22kN are not enough to guarantee a sufficient safety factor
The larks foot is the weakest knot
Don't do that, it dangerous. You are reducing the strength of the sling.
Only after you increase the strength. Its doubled, then halved so theoretically it retains full strength.
No more dangerous than any other knot that would be tied.
Steel ring is better
No no no. Cordino a strozzo 50% ridotta la tenuta. Catena di moschettoni??? No, no no.
10 out of 10 would not trust that as redundant...
Then I guess the research is wrong? And that my lying eyes as well as the hundreds of times I have used this system myself after seeing and actually being there when at least one of them was being performed was just not reality?
Some people still hip belay.
@@CodyBradford @Cody Bradford it might have worked hundreds of times, but all it takes is once.
You also have a duty when attempting to instruct in the climbing industry to ensure what you are saying is true.
As a professional in this industry, I'm telling you this is not redundant. Now you can learn from that and move on, or be stuck in your thoughts and change nothing. Either way it's your right. But to instruct others something incorrect... especially when it's a fatal vs not is unacceptable.
@@Relic_of_You I am literally dumbfounded… flabbergasted even…
I just don’t know what amount of research and findings it will take to show that this system is redundant in the context I have shown.
You can absolutely send me research to the contrary, but in the meantime, you are just incorrect.
Calling me out in this way as if I have never had my mind changed (literally search any Instagram video in the last several years) is just asinine.
Ya nice. And it fails at under 2 kn in dyneema
No, it does not.
@@CodyBradford ruclips.net/video/UMuCkC3jshA/видео.html it does here. The difference between the test and a climbing fall being the duration of load.
@@CodyBradford 1.2 kn at 7:50. I'm all for a snappy efficient anchor, but its pretty concerning how varied the results with a girth hitch are. That being said I think 99.9 % of climbers go a lifetime without something severing a leg in one of their anchors while it's loaded with 2 kn.
@@cz3582 staff.weber.edu/derekdebruin/research/girthhitch.pdf
And here we consistently got 6.5-7 KN.
In the video you sent, it didn’t look like the girth hitch was ever cinched at all.
Not only did this research both Weber and myself have done with Petzl show upwards of 8KN of force ability both static fall and slow pull of up to 10KN, but anecdotally I have used the girth hitch in situations such as ice climbing and rock for 5 years or more at this point without a single issue.
2 KN is absolutely false as I have put more load on these than that with just 3 people’s bodyweight.
Du hast vergessen dich selbst zusichern, beim einrichten des Standplatzes!! Der Mastwurf Konten ist erst später die Selbstsicherung! Bandschlingen, Daisy Chain.
Just use a quad
A quad definitely works well as a quick and organized solution when there are two unquestionable bolts as the anchor. However, it is ill advised to use a quad in most other scenarios as the potential for shock load in the event of a component failure is a serious issue.
Put a twist on on strand.....
That won't actually do anything for the redundancy as the girth hitch does not rely on the twist (extra strand) for redundancy as the sliding-x does. The girth itself is the redundancy here.
HMS. High material strength?
Danger: both first karabiners openings are directed towards the wall!
Danger: the more HMS are in one another the more dangerous it is!
An old system rehashed. This has limited uses, because it has catastrophic failure potential
Totally wrong what he is doing!
It is a total mess! You do not put 3 HMS in oneanother!
1. The sling must be attached to the bolts with HMS!
2. Self assurance with HMS in the bold.
3. To secure your partner:
HMS in the sling like he shows it.
This dude… so many better ways. What a joke and an example of the degradation of outdoor adventure
I'm sorry you don't get it. It's fairly simple.
@@jackvanlierop6090 I get it and I don't iike it. The anchor or his lame pandering channel. Also the sling is technically NOT redundant. An overhand or figure 8 at the masterpoint would be better practice. A girth hitch also weakens the knot big time. A clove hitch would be much better. Also he could clip directly into bolts and not tie up the abseil slings for his anchor.
@@EliteBagpiper I like how you said you get it, then proceed to demonstrate how you do not get it. Maybe watch and learn next time, instead of putting on the blinders.
@@jackvanlierop6090 Okay then, tell me what I am missing? He over complicates the anchor, and it is not redundant. Please.
And I will state again that this guy is just panderer to folks who are too scared to go learn on their own.