The thing I appreciated about the Paper aesthetic in the old games was that it was implicitly non-diagetic. It's like the stage and props in theatre, it's acknowledged and played around with sometimes, but it's not supposed to be a part of the story. Doing it this way not only preserves the story, allowing it to remain serious, but it means that when they do do things with it, it's actually funny, because it contrasts with everything else, and breaks the fourth wall without shattering your immersion.
The aesthetics of the first two Paper Mario games was pretty much a living storybook. Paper was just as an art style. Characters weren't literally made of paper. They couldn't literally walk through prison bars. Even the transformations in TTYD were curses - things that don't normally happen. Had the first game not been localised with the name "Paper Mario", things may have been different...
@@wariolandgoldpiramid Someone gets it :) Exactly! That's why the series should've kept the series name as Mario Story instead of Paper Mario in the first place.
@@wariolandgoldpiramid It's like the old games were well written storybooks, and the new games are cheaply made paper dioramas made out of the cut up remains of them. Each new game since then has been Nintendo trying to improve their diorama making skills, but we're all just sitting here going "Hey! Put those damn books back together! We were reading them!".
The original paper Mario games weren’t about the paper. The paper is a gimmick that they’ve been relying on too heavily. Og and ttyd were just games with a paper-y aesthetic. The last few have just been treating paper Mario like the the crafted yoshi series.
They need to be Papery y aesthetic.. Otherwise Paper mario would look like a INDIE game slapped with HD stamp.. If you make the environment full 3D with stylized natural environment. It looks so out of place with flat character .
IMO, I think Color Splash (not Sticker Star) has more unique in visual and each stage artwork than TTYD. But I agreed about character design and background story, they should be better than TTYD or SPM.
Super paper mario also wasnt self aware...and it was not canonically a PAPER WORLD...sadly the fact that paper was just nothing but a slight aesthetic is gone now.
@Yosh065 Pokemon has like 10 gens, it's like bi-yearly thing, and none of the experiment or innovate in any significant ways, there are only 2 real Paper Mario games and they experimented way more between the sequel and the og than Pokemon has done in 2 decades. If they simply kept making games like TTYD there would be no problem.
I miss when paper mario wasnt self aware filled with paper gimmicks and puns. The series used to just have paper be a slight aesthetic due to the fact Paper Mario was you playing through a visual retelling of the storybook being read to you at the beginning...it was NOT a canonically PAPER WORLD...sadly the fact that paper was just nothing but a slight aesthetic is gone now.
@@baconburgeronly3089 I think I can sum up the feeling fans of the first two games have with the new artstyle. Turning the whole world into paper ruins the world building and immersion to be honest. Turning the sky, the oceans, and the lands into cardboard and construction paper completely takes me out of the experience, as it no longer feels like a real, cohesive world, but instead as one big gag. Everything is just so fake and artificial now, and it's impossible to get immersed as a result. It's the same feeling with the white outline around the characters, the way they sway in the wind and crumple when stepped on turns these humans/non humans into nothing but gags, objects. Nothing feels real anymore in the modern paper mario games, and that was the appeal of the first two games, the fact that everything were real, tangible objects that just so happened to resemble paper as a stylistic choice, the world itself and the characters WERE NOT made out of paper and cardboard. That's the reason why so many of us prefer the old style, and dislike the new one.
@@darienmiller1032 first 3 games technically. Super paper mario wasnt hyper self aware either or made the entire game revolve around "lol it's a paper world" Tok has self aware jokes and a paper title and hyper real arts and crafts art style...but the way they're using it at least makes it feel more like an actual world compared to colour splash that legit looked like some kids art project...I'll give it that.
@@slenderfoxx3797 Jesus Christ what kids have you been looking at? I sure as hell have never seen a kid make a chain chomp and mountains out of cardboard
Tbh, the game really isn't like TTYD. It was its own thing in many ways. The main plot is the only thing that seems similar, and even then there's a lot of different nuance. Both games are excellent in their own rights
I've heard it said on Reddit and I'll say it here - it feels more like the development team was checking off a list they made of "what fans wanted," and failed to realise _why,_ and it kind of shows. I'm happy partners are back, there's a non-Bowser villain, and the story seems to be deeper, but it still feels like a neatly folded Color Splash.
You can only do so much with Exp based turn based system. So its great they try to do something different but they cannot just make different for sake of it. They need make it new and better otherwise justification does not add up.
The battle system is also different from Color Splash, and it looks like it is TTYD battle system with a twist. The japanese battle clip shows the options, and if I remember them correctly, they are: Jump Attack, Hammer Attack, Run, Assist, Items (The names could be a bit different, but they are basically the same thing). There is also Toads watching the battle
There's not even an excuse to keep avoiding rpg elements since AlphaDream is dead. I'm interested in what the design philosophy and marketing/branding discussions at nintendo look like for paper mario.
@@PipeGuy64Bit thats not gonna happen. I'm positive nintendo is done with the M&L series, since the last 3 games (Paper Jam and the 2 remakes) sold EXTREMELY poorly. They're not gonna make an effort to form a new team for a series that sells like garbage.
It's like once they started development on New Super Mario Bros Wii, Nintendo developed this bizarre fear that if Mario characters and locations aren't constantly in their most generic, vanilla, stereotypical form with no story it's bad for the brand or something.
They did have shining spots like Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2, Mario Odyssey and kinda Mario 3D World (being a bit crazier than usual) but it does seem to be that trend for the past decade or so now.
@Stonetown, you forgetting about Super Mario Odyssey and how wacky that was? Also, I don't see how the environments in Origami King look bland. If anything, they seem to keep away from the usual, "grass and ice" themes and have more variety. Examples; A giant, ancient Japanese-styled city? Vegas meets Arabian Nights? When have we ever seen this in a Mario game? Also, you forgetting about 3D World and Galaxy 2?
Mario Rabbids Kingdom Battle, Super Mario Odyssey, Super Mario Maker 2, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Mario Kart 8, and Super Mario 3D World debunk that argument.
Being realistic here, even as someone who doesn't like anything past Super Paper Mario I don't think the series will ever return and it kinda got cemented with this, its a different dev team and usually when series get a different brand of writers/directors a shift in tone is pretty much the norm. It's not even the same genre anymore it's completely switched identities and doesn't know what it wants to be, it's just whatever the game wants it to be. This is basically what to expect from any Paper Mario game going forward. A similar style with a theme gimmick tied to its aesthetic. To be fair though none of my complaints have anything to do with the actual game, but how it'll affect the fanbase in the long run. I don't know how to feel about the game actually, but I can say I don't actively dislike it like the previous two entries. On one hand it does seem to retain the better elements from Stinker Star/Color Splash, but I'm worried for the state of this series. Hear me out, none of this has anything to do with the game itself. I actually think everything presented in game looks fine. In fact if I had any problems none of it actually tie to anything related to the game (aside from them overusing the Paper puns) but the game itself I don't have a problem with actually. My problem is what this does for the fanbase and consumers. There's nothing inheriently wrong with doing anything new, but just because something's new doesn't make it good and vice versa, I don't even think it needs to be like the originals to be good, the real problem comes in that by them actively adding yet another gameplay style and shifting completely away they have only further cemented their fanbase to split apart and divide itself, which gives me HUGE Sonic fanbase deja vu. Now because of the new change in gameplay style and direction fans are going to be uncertain of what they want, opinions are going to be scattered and the producers are going to have no room to fullfill anything. It's already bad enough that the series has no idea what it wants to be anymore. And often times you can't have a civil discussion without taking jabs or highlight "issues" you have with said games just to spin a narrative, when tbh a lot of what people say are either just that or hypocritical on their end. Especially when they say "its underrated" when it not. Or acting like its fine to defend one game, but not another. By this regards the series it becoming more of the Sonic series the further they go down with this the more of that they become, I'm afraid of its reality. Because if the game is going to be good, its going to split the fanbase completely there are now going to be groups of fans completely there for different reasons. I'm not a fan of how fans are being blamed for the "toxicity" of this fandom, when really its Nintendo's fault for actively splitting their own fanbase apart with these decisions. And that's not to say harass them or anything, but their own decisions have led people to do this. For example demonizing anyone criticizing this trailer as a specific fan which not only comes off as generalizing that's simply not a fair assessment to make. Just because of how loud they are people are just seeing that side of the fandom. It's annoying that they've been a generalized, just seeing that portion doesn't mean that's all their is to the fandom that just boils down to witnessing a specific perspective. I dislike this type of mentality. Think of the Kirby series when have they actively split their fanbase up? Because they haven't, they've always been given or had consistent games to the point where its actually a pretty quiet fandom. I also think people just who want nothing but praise can be just as problematic because you're closing up any reason for people to show concern and for people to preach how people should "be quiet" doesn't help that. My gripes aside I am going to wait for more to be shown before giving my overall judgement. I'm going to try the game itself tho and have nothing against the actual game itself, everything its purely outside of the game which I just don't know how to feel on. I will say it does look like a step above Stinker Star and Color Splash tho. I will say even though I'm going to try the game I'm not going to be apart of the fandom anymore nor am I going to expect anything on a grander scale, I'll just casually enjoy these games as a go forward because one series I love has went down this rut (Sonic) and it seems that way for another.
I think a good point to add would be, the game is meant for kids... not a bunch of teenagers and adults running around calling a child’s game crap because it’s to much like a child’s game.
People keep trying to say Origami King will be better than TTYD, I then ask them if they've ever played TTYD, and a majority of them say no, yet they yell at me for wanting the old formula back...
Then that just means their argument has zero weight to it and their opinions are worthless. I'm sure if they actually played the original 2 they'd probably say wow they had so much more fun and engagement playing it.
Nearly every long-running game series has to reach the point of a game like Origami King, the originals are the best, the modern ones are bad and then comes the game that some people thinks its bad while others thinks its a step in right direction. My personal oponion about Modern Paper Mario is that it focuses way too much on 'paper' concepts and parody then actual story.
Also started playing it yesterday. It's SO much better than Stinker Star/Color Trash (unoriginal insult, I know). I couldn't bring myself to even fight Morton in CS, but Bug Fables is addictive and fun.
Agreed. Paper Mario needs to improve. I'm not kidding. Fire Tanabe, hire Kawade. I love this franchise so much (and I love PM64, TTYD and SPM) but I mean, Paper Mario deserves to improve. Give us new original and interesting characters and partners with their own abilities, mix between RPG and platformer (like SPM), TTYD combat system for bosses, have good and dark story, and allow Kawade, fans and creators of Mario&Luigi/BugFables to help creating a new good Paper Mario game with Nintendo.
Dude I seriously couldn't agree more. I'm tired of people saying "iT's A sTeP iN tHe RiGhT dIrEcTiOn StOp BeInG sO cLoSe MiNdEd". Your analogy of the baby steps this series is taking really resonated with me. The first time I watched the trailer I was ecstatic, cautious but ecstatic. When it finished, I just felt de-motivated. I felt defeated and betrayed. TTYD is literally my favourite game of all time and I bet you me replaying it for the 35th time will still be more enjoyable than where the series is headed. My theory is that they'll do one more game after this, which will have more slight steps in the right direction, and if it's received poorly due to lack of original characters and fresh environments, they'll blindly announce "Oh well, I guess no one likes Paper Mario anymore, what a shaaaaame" and that's where it ends. I want to believe this isn't true but i don't have the energy to deflect and defend anymore. TL;DR I completely agree with you and I firmly believe this series has 4 years left alive. The franchise is now *PAPER* ᴹᵃʳᶦᵒ instead of Paper *Mario*
@@lamihadamshareef5270 because for all they know they could be the loud minority Nintendo responds to sales because they are concrete the internet however isn't
The Thousand Year Door is my favorite game in the series too. I just think this game is a right step since Sticker Star and Color Splash though. That's my opinion.
@@lamihadamshareef5270 "But never listens to fans". Literally the reason Twilight Princess exists is *because* Nintendo listened to fans who wanted a more mature take on Zelda.
Most dissapointing thing is the lack of original NPCs. Even if they didn't want to make their own, why can't they use NPCs from Odyssey, Galaxy, Sunshine. There's characters to pull from the mainline games that are unique and interesting but they seem to just stick with basic Toads, Goombas, Shy Guys, etc. It feels frustrating and tone deaf Maybe the actual game has stuff like that, but what they've shown so far and the history of the last 2 games doesn't give me hope in the slightest
@@mrjohnful I'm aware with what I said, I'm just confused with your response? Being hopeless on a game isn't affecting me personally in anyway. I'm not invested to that degree That's why I don't get why you said being hopeless won't help me. Because it doesn't exactly harm me ether
@@water223 Well, sorry if I misunderstood you. I only think that a lot of people is being negative for no reason. Look, I know that SS and CS almost ruined the hope for every gamer, but I want to see more positive opinions. That's all.
You know it's finna be trash when people come out the woodwork talking bout "it's showing effort" and "it's a step in the right direction" and "we haven't even played the game yet" LMAO. I hail from the abused Sonic fanbase, I know this and I know it well. Yeah, no thanks.
THANK YOU! Omg I’m so sick and tired of hearing the same old tired bullshit every single time I try to voice even the slightest concern about the direction the series is taking! What these people need to understand is that fans like us have been with the series for nearly two decades now and have already been burned three times by Nintendo’s refusal to listen to us. At this point we’ve developed a good sense for when intelligent systems has dropped the ball on a new instalment, and it’s looking like this is yet another baby step in the right direction at best.
And if Super Mario Party has proved anything is that there will be fans still defending it until a year later when it starts becoming cool to say how much of a disappointment it is.
I think this take on things helps me to put some of my own thoughts and worries in order. Thinking of Color Splash as a parody of a Mario game is a really good way to put it in perspective, so thanks for that one. Their approach to this series does baffle me... It's loud and clear that people want the series to follow the example of the first two games in the series, but instead of using those games for their foundation and figuring out how to include the wacky side they enjoy creating, they seem to be using the recent two games as their foundation and trying to retrofit elements that look like they came from the first two games, no matter how distant they may be. Even if the people working on the series are different, it's the same company behind it that it's always been. Do they not have access to their own talent that made the first games shine or something?
Two words: Bug Fables. It even builds off of some aspects of TTYD. And it may take heavy inspiration from that game, but it does enough to stand on its own.
@BradleyJames Barlow I can see where you're coming from, but the lack of any true exp system in sticker star and color splash made the combat feel worthless, and with the amount of money you can farm early game in color splash those resources become de facto unlimited. Also, it's hard to call the game an RPG because there is no way to really customize combat, other than just buying different items. There's no character building (aka the badge system) variation to give players a chance to experiment or try new things. In the end, the combat in these new paper mario games lacks depth and becomes a chore best avoided.
@BradleyJames Barlow Depends how do you define an RPG -- there are RPGs that have damage systems that are typically real-time based, but use the health-magic-defense kind of system, and one of the core concepts of RPGs is the story which is already a blur as some non-RPGs have better stories than some that says they're RPGs.
What I want: Awesome Story Interesting Characters Partners with own Abilities and Personality The OLD Battle System back! No Color or Sticker bullshit.
Yeh im just crossing fingers we get that but from the trailer im not having high hopes 23 dmg in the trailer that early in the game looks too strong something tells me there will be no partners in battle constantly wich is already a con plus no lvling system
The old battle system did have its fair share of flaws, like RNG (you can DIE from the crowd or the accessories on stage), and being tedious to where you fuck up one button on an attack the damage’ll go from 5 to 1, which can scree you up hard if theres more than two enemies. People usually stray away from Color Splash’s battle system because they actually have to use their brains to strategize what cards they want to use and how much paint it’ll take.
It looks like what you want is Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling. Just beat it today and I highly recommend it to anyone that likes the old Paper Mario games.
Your editing style and the pace of your scripts are seriously amazing, Jacob. How you write them too In any case... As an uncultured plebian who has barely touched a Nintendo game but really wants to, I thought the trailer looked... Good. But the way you lay it all out really sells how far from the mark the game really might be. The big sucker punch being the story about the original Bob-Omb party member. Also, I LOVE crafted aesthetics in games, Pupetteer is one of my favourite games after all, but even I'm getting a bit tired of em'. And the fact that it really was never the point of the series but just a fun localization name, but became the essence of the series really blows the whole thing outta the water. And as you pointed out, it relates so strongly to the big ol' "joke" of the games too.
I don't understand why they refuse to make any unique characters. Everyone is just a plain toad bomb-omb ect. They wont even put any toadettes in the game.
You sound like you played the game already. Nintendo cant even release a trailer without people already hating the game they havnt even played yet. Lol wow, ungrateful selfish "fans"
Even still, Paper Mario and TTYD managed to have a variety to how Toads look, both male and female. Why can’t we have that? Why do we have to settle for just same looking Toads but with a different color? Yes there was one wearing exploring gear, but his look underneath was just another generic Toad.
Calvin Ospina the point of a trailer is to generate hype and cultivate interest in the game. If it had failed to do so, why blame the consumers? People are disillusioned with the series because Nintendo has twice in a row released 2 underwhelming Paper Mario titles, and this one has yet to show much promises.
This pretty much sums up how I feel. After I heard rumors of a new paper mario that might actually be good, a had a glimmer of hope. Because sticker star was a misstep, and color splash started production right after, surely they would understand that we want a real Mario story. I even thought that maybe origami king could be what we’ve been waiting for because it looked like a step in the right direction. But there are too many red flags to ignore. I see now that Nintendo doesn’t care about paper mario anymore.
Your tone, your words, everything you said and they way you said it perfectly captures my initial feelings to this game. Remember when they actually focused on story and traditional RPG elements rather than the fact that the game has "Paper" in the title? Honestly it's sad that a fucking South Park game came closer to a traditional Paper Mario game than Paper Mario.
I think that battles kind of suck in TOK. There boring, repetitive, and there's almost no variety. Also there's LESS of a reason to battle than in Color Splash!
The funny thing is that you were 100% right the game is pretty much color splash but with a different battle system and no world map, and even worse in some areas
Once this game comes out and we see who all the "partners" are going to be, I will make my own redesign of them all to actually look unique and have their look fit their personality and role in the story. Wait, no, "redesign" is the wrong word. That would imply they had been designed in the first place.
I bought Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling. It is the Paper Mario sequel / successor that I always wanted. My expectations going into Origami King are set so low after playing Bug Fables. I just can’t go back, not after having everything I wanted in an excellent indie game.
i agree with you i got bug fables instead too the origomi king was just so lame as it acted like it was a return to form but missed everything that made me fall in love with paper mario in the first place aka actual rpg elements original characters and deep story so i boycotted it for bug fables and it’s the ttyd sequel that i’d been begging for after all these years so much so that i’ll be waiting for bug fables 2 instead from now on
@@Kurumithespiritnightmare I really do hope there will be a Bug Fables 2! I have no hope that Nintendo will return to form. Nintendo Sony and Microsoft have all almost ditched turn-based RPG entirely…
@@defil3d i agree with you if they announced a sequel to bug fables in a few years i’ll be fine with paper mario not going back to form because i’ll have bug fables instead, yea unfortunately certain companies just don’t like making traditional rpgs now a days for some weird reason as they’re my favorite game genre
I wish lol it’s just the English word for Kamekku - which is the Japanese name for the magikoopa species which is also derived from another Japanese word - Kame - meaning turtle... I googled this the other day and was profoundly disappointed lol
@@CoachCarter94 It's his specific name in English to refer to the character from Yoshi's Island; if it weren't, they would've called him Magikoopa. In Asian and European languages like Japanese, German and Dutch on the other hand, Kamek refers to BOTH the specific character and the species, like Toad.
One thing worth mentioning is Kamek is an actual character. He is part of the race of magikoopa. Kamek is bowsers right hand magikoopa. Aside from that I agree with all this.
It’s like the only Nintendo series allowed to even have decent stories are Zelda, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, Metroid, and Star Fox when it's not being a softcore remake/retelling of Star Fox 64.
The problem with the recent Paper Mario games is simple, Intelligent System Forgot(or wants to forget) that Paper Mario series are supposed to be their own intepretation of sequels of Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars for Super NES. Think about it, the original Paper Mario games have a lot in common with Mario RPG: They both have unique and great characters, an engaging great story, permanent partners who help out and Mario help them back, unique and diverse locations that each connects with the goal you're searching, Flower Points, similar badge system and overall really similar RPG battle mechanics. See what I mean? :) Paper Mario is supposed to be Intelligent System's sequel to Mario RPG, following with the same continuity and universe of Mario RPG and the other main Super Mario games, and the original PM, TTYD, and SPM did exactly that which is what they're all originally intended to do. Ever since Sticker Star, the full idea of Mario RPG is ditched, replacing with overuse of paper gimmicks, Action Adventure genre rather than RPG genre, and generic characters that you expect to see out of New Super Mario Bros series. Intelligent System nowadays thinks that Paper Mario's identity is about Paper, and what more mechanics they can do around Paper rather than concentrating the most important aspects. For crying out loud, even the beta title for Paper Mario is Super Mario RPG 2.
Eurgh, yes, all of this. It's so clear playing the first 2 games that the paper theme is just an aesthetic. It's a style in which to tell the story. The characters themselves aren't paper, it's just designed to look like a pop-up book. The last 3 games now are nothing but, "Hey, look at us! We're all made out of paper! And paint! And stickers!" It's like they don't understand their own world logic.
Actually I do think they understand their world logic, it's just that it's different from what was done before, not really applying the world building made in the earlier games.
I just hope the combat system isn't as bad as the last two games. I think the puzzle gimmick is okay because it forces players to think fast so personally I don't think it will get stale that quickly. I just hope that FP returns and paper mario returns to its old school rpg roots. Didn't this series exist because Nintendo wanted a sequel to Super Mario Rpg? What is the target audience for this series now?
I feel like Mario and Luigi is part of the reason this series sucks now, which is sad because that series might be dead and it's most recent NEW game was pretty bland as well.
@@Pixnut31 Which I find to be a stupid argument when SS and CS defenders bring up because ALL MARIO GAMES are made age appropriate for kids. And it's not like kids only want "lol random funneh jokez" all the time, they enjoy action with occasional drama as well, even horror on some occasions.
This was just...honestly such a masterpiece of a video. I am blown away with this editing. It starts with a parody trailer, a joke if you will, about how this is totally NOT a return to form and how Nintendo doesn't seem to get it. It's the thesis told as a joke and it's such a good hook. IT could technically be its own youtube video. Then the VIDEO starts, and you start talking about the history of paper Mario. What made the first two games so good, and what made the last two games so hated. The transition that into the joke, but then REVEALING that the joke WAS IN the new Paper Mario games (That reveal really caught me off guard) thus EMPHASIZES the point you made earlier by making the intro a joke and followed by an actual heartfelt moment with Nintendo about how you hope it's good, and a plead to Nintendo how to make it better if it's not with a final closing thought. The pacing, the storytelling, the overall structure. I watched this video that was 10 minutes long, and it felt more like a 20-minute story. You....my dear friend, just earned a subscriber.
If it wasn't for the battle system this might have been promising. But then you have that ring based battle system. Not to mention the footage of the bosses. A box of color pencils, a tape dispenser, it seems like all the bosses other than the final one will be fished out of a box of office supplies. So much for characters. Even Sticker Star and Color splash had characters and bosses. Between that and how they've been turned into puzzles? Yeah, no. Maybe if it wasn't for that this could have been a decent game.
This video just breaks my heart, and all my tiny hopes have been shattered. My mask of there being a semblance of the old games has been torn right off. I hope that even though the partners are unnamed, they make them good characters. Like, having some with backstory, some without. SOMETHING.
It's funny, I see a civil discussion about the issues with Nintendo about the paper Mario/Mario Story series. And then at the bottom there is a person just lugging slurs at a person giving an opinion, internet I guess
1:52 Funny Nintendo's twitter literally did this asking people's fav moments from PM64 for its 20th Anniversary and guess what everyone commented everything they liked from 64, TTYD and Super. Pretty much called it
This is exactly how I felt when I watched the most recent trailer for the game. What broke me was that the main bosses are all just stationary. Not based around them in a clever manner; just straight up stationary. Nothing says unoriginality like basing your games world around office supplies.
I respect your opinion (since I'm looking forward to the game) but saiyng "nintendo doesn't take this series seriously and it's something to fart out" because of the way they annonced it, did you ever get to think that they delayed the announcement because of a certain virus spreading around the world and they were unsure on when to announce it? Just saying.
Thats not the problem at all with how they announced it. Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, the problem is ever dropping a release or the first trailer without anticipation or in a big event is a bad sign for how a company views a product. If they delayed the announcement that would have been fine. But they should have still done siemthung to bring attention to it, else the ad would just fall under the waves of RUclips usually. Its a sign if blatant low expectations on a game. Just saying.
Wind-riding Moth do you think maybe this game was supposed to release later in the years but game that we’re supposed to be ready for the summer we’re delayed because of virus. And this game WAS ready so they pushed it’s release date forward. So any plans for a bigger reveal could (note I say could) have been scrapped due too it have less time, and with time ticking for something to come for we need some summer Nintendo game outside of xenoblade, so they put this game because it was ready? I’m not gonna call Nintendo a saint. They aren’t. Nor will I call intelligent systems, the devs of paper mario one either. But the virus does admittedly change plans.
@@ananshasheta926 Everything about this trailer screams that it would have been perfect, heck even *made* to be that last announcement for the direct mini we had. It would have been *loads* better than the pokemon announcement we got at the end. I imagine Intelligent System weren't ready for the deadline. I mean just the way the trailer starts makes it sounds like it was supposed to be a big deal, at least bigger than Color Splash. The thing with Peach scene is obviously supposed to generate intrigue and/or make the story seem bigger than it probably is. I imagine we were then supposed to get a second direct that included a segment to explain everything (just like that Mario Tennis game) but then we got that rumor that Nintendo would probably not have a June/E3 direct and was telling their developers to just announce things at their pace. So the whole summary (Olly and Olivia's name, etc) was just dropped on the websites for ppl to read instead of having a video with a narrator telling us all the details.
Wind-riding Moth I was pretty sure there was going to be a direct around this time (based on some thing we heard form Nintendo) and I assume it was going be a part of that. So now that it not happening how could they have announced it? If they said it was just a new game or said a new Mario game that would have people making expectation that are way overboard. If they said it was a paper mario that would ruin any surprise. With it being 2 month away they could not have waited any longer really. It was the best solution
Look up the Mario and Luigi series. In Japan these games are supposed to be the actual successors of Mario RPG. The series is really good up until like the last game. Then it's just remakes and the company went under
The question is, who? Mario & Luigi is already gone, and Intelligent Systems are using the Paper Mario name as a parody (which isn't always bad, but it still is a parody). Square Enix probably don't care much about doing it. Maybe another third party developer that could be open in doing it?
To Nintendo, the first two games were the least successful because they both sold less than 2 million copies. However, TTYD had the highest attach rate with nearly 9% of the system's owners buying a copy, compared to 4% for all the other games.
So well said man. I really want to show this video to the creators of this game. Show them all our criticisms. These new games make me so sad man. Like i'm not mad just genuinely so disappointed. Life has been tough lately and these games are an escape for a lot of us. The origami king got me so excited and then heartbroken once I learned it wasn't an rpg. Bug Fables cheered up so much, I recommend that game to anyone who loves the first two paper mario games.
@@chibi3593 Exactly. There are two things that Sticker Star actually did right. Sticker Star didn't have the white outlines and the world wasn't entirely made out of paper. Other than that Sticker Star was everything but a Paper Mario lol
So after all that, Paper Mario: The Origami King was actually pretty good. But that doesn't mean it still holds a candle to how the games used to be, and Jacob is entirely right in this video.
This pretty much sums up my thoughts and feelings on the whole thing, yeah. At least bug fables exists. Shame Miyamoto has to have a "put a dumb gimmick in it" mentality to everything he oversees now, as hes killed F Zero and Starfox with that bullshit.
One thing I say even tho I am a bit late, it is presumed, at least by me, that jammy died between ttyd and spm because of old age, kamek, the apprentice of kammy took her role after she passed away. Kamek is actually very different from other magikoopas, being closer to Bowser and Jr and in general having more skill than the average magikoopa. Just wanted to throw that out there cuz kamek is a magikoopa, but other magikoopas aren't kamek.
Kamek exists in other Mario games, though, whereas Kammy is exclusive to the PM series. It seems to me they just replaced Kammy with a classic Mario character in the hopes of luring in general Mario fans...
@@sophiefilo16 but again kamek is still not just a magikoopa, even if he doesn't have a unique look you can still see their personality, how loyal he/she is to Bowser and I like that, and I still stand that kamek is the successor to kammy in the PM games, even tho they look like a normal magikoopa they still have their own personality.
Good video, I agree with everything said here. I’ve loved the series ever since the first one so it’s such a shame to see how far it has fallen. Those “return to form” leaks got my hopes up but man, this is not at all what I envisioned. I suppose believing such leaks was on me.
Anybody know the mainbody Japanese fanbase's opinions on Paper Mario? Do they share the same as we do? I can't fathom how they don't get it after 15 years...
Japanese views are similar to Europeans and Americans in general. Sticker Star sold well because it was on a handheld, but wasn't particularly liked. In general, Paper Mario is like Sonic. It's not hated in Japan, but is way more popular outside of Japan. Mario & Luigi is the more popular series there.
One thing his predictions got wrong was with Bob-omb, for some reason he also got a heart wrenching story with him, why is that the only part they kept from the games
Amazing video, I've watched hundreds on videos about the sad fate of the PM series by now but your video had a very distinct feel that I really enjoyed. You couldn't have summed up my feelings any better.
Stop with this pessimism. Try to give hope to the game. We have so much stuff going on the trailer that excites me! Yes, it might not be like 64 and TTYD, but I'm sure this game will be fantastic!
I think we watched different trailers, these graphics were absolutely stunning. Snark aside... these 2 eras of paper mario definitely aren't the same franchise anymore. One is more heavily based on story and combat while the other ended up being more focused on exploration and humorous shenanigans. They mix together in some aspects, such as certaun shared ideals of combat and dialogue, but considering both to be the same franchise will only hurt both. You might not like the comedy in thr newer ones, but there are fans. It's its own thing now, and we can't change that... however nobody likes sticker star because it had not so good combat and uninteresting motivation, and color splash could have learned more from sticker star's failure. but i still love color splash for all of its clever dialogue, beautiful art style, and... functional combat
You just got a new subscriber. I not fond of people still giving Nintendo license to make games in this series that only do the absolute minimum to improve. I'm not hopeful on this title and I really don't think this is a "step in the right direction" either. They need to shake up the formula and reinvent this series asap if they want people to really get invested into it. I feel like Nintendo is trying too hard to get the spin-off titles in the Mario universe to have a lasting impression on people that just got to know them because of the Switch. I mean, come on, Mario is one of the most reconizable characters ever made, just slap him in the game and be creative with the rest of the cast. Why is it so hard when you've literally done this countless times in the past?
But Nintendo not fixing broke things is their biggest problem, by far. The one time they tried something new like Breath of the Wild is also the best thing they made in a decade.
I feel like we’re misusing the term “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” They aren’t trying to fix anything. They are trying something new, but aren’t pulling it off correctly, and still aren’t listening to fans. They could easily implement things like sticker, paint or origami mechanics and your partner like Kersti, Huey, or Olivia with the old Battle System and people would love it. Look, I love Paper Mario: The Origami King, it’s my new favorite Paper Mario game, but I definitely know that those past games like 64, TTYD, and SPM really had an impact on the franchise for its story, characters, and unique battle system. That’s not to say those games didn’t have flaws as well, but they were much less then the flaws we’ve seen in the last 3 entries.
I want it to be good and cautiously optimistic but I honestly have similar feelings to you. It just baffles my mind how Nintendo just outright refuses to go back to what worked
Yeah I definitely agree with you on this, Jacob. The first two games I definitely have fond memories of from my childhood, but that's the thing. They're just MEMORIES now. Paper Mario has completely steered off course from what made the first two good in the first place. It's just plain sad.
I do feel the jab saying nobody likes the newer titles is a bit of a stretch, anyone is feel to like what they like. That being said I do agree with everything stated as someone who's only a fan of the first 3 titles. Though the Mario's Story thing I'm uncertain of, I always saw the paper thing as just a visual skin as to say "This is Mario, in a different world" it was just taking Mario into a different world where it told different stories, that's what made them so appealing because they felt like an expansion of the Mario world beyond the basic premises of mainline games. Which we play for entirely different reasons. And them being made of Paper because its "Paper Mario" and? Spongebob is a sponge, but not at any point does the show's dialogue need to reference that. They just showcase gags using his sponge nature. Just because it is in the title, doesn't mean it has to be emphasized or taken to the literal degree, otherwise you might as well say "Legend of Zelda has Zelda's name in the title, get it?" or with any other series. Not to mention I do think its a bit excessive to add it three games in. Especially when you consider their other writings which are superior. (I am hoping for Origami King just for the record, and this is from an old school PM fan) With this new direction, they Super Mario Bros-Ified everything to where now its not anymore distinguishable from mainline titles with how much enemies, and items behave as if you were playing a Mario game (not helping with how much games seem to take from Super Mario Bros 3), it no longer feels like I'm playing a PM game, just a Mario game with a different skin. Obviously you still want the game as Mario, so just focusing too much on originality can feel tonally different, but at the same time you don't want to limit yourself either. Having Mario characters are fine if the games have other species that intertwine with them. Because realistically in a fiction told story, even with a species/race consisting of all the same thing, it usually is confined to just that specific place, if say the other species interacted with other people they wouldn't come across someone exactly like them. similar? yes. But to say every single species in the world is all the same race? Because even in other stories with races other worlds contain different races or beings. If not it makes the world boring! True anyone has different tastes in what they prefer, but I dislike how Nintendo have actively chosen to split their own fanbase apart and have been willfully negligent when it comes to criticism. I also feel its taken the Modern Sonic approach where they have to feel the need to 4th wall constantly and just make jokes all the time. Granted I do think in Color Splash's case it does it better than Sonic and to be fair the writing is its strongsuit by far aside from its level design, but I also wouldn't lie and say its main appeal comes from its funny dialogue because that's all there is to offer from a writing standpoint, but it takes more to a story or experience than laughs. The gameplay was just not well design as well as certain other elements I couldn't enjoy the newer games and not just because they weren't like the older games. I'll also say the combat doesn't have to be exactly like the older games either from a point by point basis, just good enough where it doesn't detract from the core experience. Because to me I find gameplay a key element in enjoyment factor. But I will also say combat was what made the older games flexible with replayability. I mean this franchise has changed so much it literally has no idea what it wants to be anymore. I can't say I can state what Paper Mario is because it doesn't have a core identity, change is fine for a series, but not when that changes comes at the expense of identity. But also shouldn't stagnate either. The main reason I loved PM taking gameplay aside was it was a different take on Mario. Even 64 despite using the same plot structure made up for it by adding extra layers to it to help make it more its own thing. Toad Town wasn't just a town of toads if felt like visiting a city or town where the residents just happen to be people living their normal lives. When it comes to the tonal shift, it doesn't help that Ryota Kawade, the director of the first three games, was barely involved in the production of Stinker Star (the only credit he had for the game was "Special Thanks"), and most of its crew was never involved in the series before.
That's not what he said, he said no one's ranking the newer entries as their favorite game of all time or within their top games list. By contrast, loads of people have the first few Paper Marios and Super Mario RPG in the list of most beloved games.
OHH, to hear that background music when your in front of the Thousand Year Door............, the memories come back. Well executed towards the end of the video Jacob.
The parody analogy was right on the nose, I miss the feeling of grandure the originals had. They felt so cinematic, it was a real treat to see those stories play out. And I'm on board with you about the aesthetics as well. The cardboard environments look so flat and lifeless, I miss the lovely pastel backgrounds of the first game and the wonderful illustrated textures and objects that made up the worlds, and they did a lot to make them look interesting.
If the next Paper Mario after Origami King were to be a complete return to the first two games. I’d be fine if the drawback was that there was a once a chapter gag that basically takes the piss out of Sticker Star and Color Splash. A small price to pay for salvation
Sadly Nintendo needs to make another Paper Mario game like the first 2. It's what people like and want. The Final Fantasy series kept its core mechanics for a lot of games, so why is Nintendo being so stubborn about this and insisting on adding a "unique" flair to a new game? I'll gladly play a new Paper Mario games that just feels like a TTYD stand alone expansion pack.
Great video dude, that first 2 minutes was fucken hilarious. Just wrote a video script regarding this game. I'm on a similar page to you with this stuff. They definitely don't seem to get what made the originals great. That bobbery shit hit me right in the soul gland btw. Bravo.
I think if sticker star to orgami king were just spin offs as they're making paper Mario RPGs as well, I think people would take the new games alot better(I will admit color splash got it's charms, but to me thousand year door feels... More natural and less forced of a joke), hell, I'd settle for them to make a paper Luigi spin off of his story during thousand year door, for a switch title, that'd definitely show fans they atleast get what makes the original two games so we'll recieved
Paper Mario 64 is by far my favorite game of all time, I have replayed it time and time again, yearly. And i swear even on the 20th playthru I found hidden stuff I was unaware of. "Mario Story" should have stayed.
Hey man, I sympathize with all your points and think you're mostly spot-on. Some minor quibbles but not what I'm here to do: Pick up Bug Fables currently on PC or in a couple days on Switch if any of you want a Paper Mario-esque experience without Nintendo's current philosophies messing things up. It's got a great story, a fantastic cast of characters, and your "partners" are your permanent party and all have deep storylines of their own and humor aplenty. And the battle system is TTYD with some twists here and there, like being able to give a character's "turn" to another character.
6:15 dude I love Alro Nitpick aside though this is a great video! While I’m cautiously optimistic for Origami King, you make some great points about how it could just be another letdown of a game. Although one thing I am gonna say is that I felt like there was a lot of cherry-picking at Colour Splash’s dialogue, because that specific example was very late into the game and also not nearly as obnoxious as you made it seem, at least for me.
I think the best flex would be if the Thousand Year Door remake ends up being both faithful to the original. . .and has sales that blows Origami King out of the water.
I mean I didn’t actually hate color splash (sticker star only has, like, 1 redeeming quality so I still hate it) so if this game actually manages to improve the battle system no issues here. I’m not expecting the game to be perfect right off the bat; fixing the battle system and story is good enough after 2 games of “why would you do this... twice...”. If it does keep its promises, any new games in the series better have unique characters >:3!
I couldn't agree more with this. Even after the second trailer (which is what I can sum up as a double-edged follow-up), I still have the same thoughts. The dev team, yeah, they're taking baby steps, but with Miyamoto telling Tanabe to take all these drastic measures to basically neuter the series of what people grew to love it for, and with Kudo further confirming that they have no plans to change this formula since Sticker Star? I'm sorry, but they're still being as obtuse as ever. They've had 8 years and now soon to be more in counting to fix this series.
agreed paper mario is in a similar identity crisis to sonic luckily sonic mania was a return to form can’t say the same thing about origomi king for paper mario though *hashtag play bug fables *
The trailer for the game dropped 64 days before the game’s release, either nintendo is foreshadowing something or they dropped the trailer a month and a half before the release of the game just to make a funny joke. Probably the latter.
There were a lot of things they didn't show off other than the battle system. The traversal, that new arms mechanic. They do that all the time, show off glimpses and establish stuff later. I've learned to not jump to conclusions when it comes to stuff like this.
The only partner move we've seen is a generic head bump. We don't see anyone ever selecting a partner move. We don't even see partners in most the screenshots.
Color Splash would really be at my list, I know it sounds like a stupid thing to shoe-horn into the comment section, but it is. I enjoyed the game, and maybe that's because I played it after SPM when I had played no other game previously to that. I felt it fun enough to beat the game and do all the Roshambo (no matter how bs it was). I understand people who started with the og 2 being disappointed because the game wasn't the same for the next 3 (now 4) entrys. It must be frustrating to have to wait up to like... 10 years to get something even close to the semblance of what you loved.
Well, we did get Bug Fables which is absolutely inspired by the original 2. My problem with SS/CS is just how much of a step back they are creatively. Nobody has the right to tell you what games you can and cannot like, so you're more than entitled to love CS. I AM curious if you'd put Color Splash above Super Paper Mario though? As someone who has played all of them, I'd rate them like this: 6: Paper Mario - Sticker Star (the worst one, easily) 5: Paper Mario - Color Splash (much like SS, a few improvements) 4: Super Mario RPG: Legend of the 7 Stars (loved this growing up, think 64 and TTYD did a lot better) 3: Super Paper Mario (easily the best story, music and villains in the series) 2 : Paper Mario 64 (I think it has a better world and Chapter 3, 4 and 7 rule) 1: Paper Mario - The Thousand Year Door (best gameplay, great everything else, Chapters 3, 6 and 8 are great) Probably a pretty predictable list outside SPM beating Mario RPG lol. Bug Fables I'm still playing but honestly if I were to rate it, even now it'd be 4-3ish , great game and I'm still early on.
i agree with you it’s not that they are making games like sticker star and color splash it’s the fact that they’re making them instead of games like 64 and ttyd it’s that the old fans haven’t had a game since 2004 so they’ve spite is definitely justified as i can understand wanting something similar to the things that i loved at least we have bug fables to hold us over for now but yea i agree with you it is frustrating that we had to wait for over 15 years for a game that has everything that we loved
The thing I appreciated about the Paper aesthetic in the old games was that it was implicitly non-diagetic. It's like the stage and props in theatre, it's acknowledged and played around with sometimes, but it's not supposed to be a part of the story.
Doing it this way not only preserves the story, allowing it to remain serious, but it means that when they do do things with it, it's actually funny, because it contrasts with everything else, and breaks the fourth wall without shattering your immersion.
The aesthetics of the first two Paper Mario games was pretty much a living storybook.
Paper was just as an art style. Characters weren't literally made of paper. They couldn't literally walk through prison bars.
Even the transformations in TTYD were curses - things that don't normally happen.
Had the first game not been localised with the name "Paper Mario", things may have been different...
@@wariolandgoldpiramid Someone gets it :) Exactly! That's why the series should've kept the series name as Mario Story instead of Paper Mario in the first place.
@@wariolandgoldpiramid It's like the old games were well written storybooks, and the new games are cheaply made paper dioramas made out of the cut up remains of them.
Each new game since then has been Nintendo trying to improve their diorama making skills, but we're all just sitting here going "Hey! Put those damn books back together! We were reading them!".
The thousand year door has many lines referencing the paper aesthetic and marios curses are all paper-based.
I would bet you 20k that if you asked 50 strangers what diagetic means they would reply "what kind of faggot would use such a pretentious word?"
The original paper Mario games weren’t about the paper. The paper is a gimmick that they’ve been relying on too heavily. Og and ttyd were just games with a paper-y aesthetic. The last few have just been treating paper Mario like the the crafted yoshi series.
They need to be Papery y aesthetic.. Otherwise Paper mario would look like a INDIE game slapped with HD stamp.. If you make the environment full 3D with stylized natural environment. It looks so out of place with flat character .
IMO, I think Color Splash (not Sticker Star) has more unique in visual and each stage artwork than TTYD. But I agreed about character design and background story, they should be better than TTYD or SPM.
Super paper mario also wasnt self aware...and it was not canonically a PAPER WORLD...sadly the fact that paper was just nothing but a slight aesthetic is gone now.
@@abbasaltake1414 What's wrong with it looking like an índie game? Hell, it might work to our benefit if they sell it cheaper than $60.
@Yosh065 Pokemon has like 10 gens, it's like bi-yearly thing, and none of the experiment or innovate in any significant ways, there are only 2 real Paper Mario games and they experimented way more between the sequel and the og than Pokemon has done in 2 decades. If they simply kept making games like TTYD there would be no problem.
We need the ability to play luigis story that he told amongst paper Mario ttyd
Facts straight facts
"Paper Luigi's Thousand Year Story"
My mans was in a wedding dress i need to see the events that led to that
@@dr.shrimppuertorico1459 "I'm not gonna lie Mario I was pretty hot"
We could do it ourselves if Nintendo wasn't so draconian
I miss when paper mario wasnt self aware filled with paper gimmicks and puns. The series used to just have paper be a slight aesthetic due to the fact Paper Mario was you playing through a visual retelling of the storybook being read to you at the beginning...it was NOT a canonically PAPER WORLD...sadly the fact that paper was just nothing but a slight aesthetic is gone now.
I see your point but frankly I dont understand the problem with them kinda pushing tha paper premise its
@@baconburgeronly3089
I think I can sum up the feeling fans of the first two games have with the new artstyle.
Turning the whole world into paper ruins the world building and immersion to be honest. Turning the sky, the oceans, and the lands into cardboard and construction paper completely takes me out of the experience, as it no longer feels like a real, cohesive world, but instead as one big gag. Everything is just so fake and artificial now, and it's impossible to get immersed as a result. It's the same feeling with the white outline around the characters, the way they sway in the wind and crumple when stepped on turns these humans/non humans into nothing but gags, objects. Nothing feels real anymore in the modern paper mario games, and that was the appeal of the first two games, the fact that everything were real, tangible objects that just so happened to resemble paper as a stylistic choice, the world itself and the characters WERE NOT made out of paper and cardboard. That's the reason why so many of us prefer the old style, and dislike the new one.
@@darienmiller1032 bravo but really miamato why did have to be a boomer for this one.
@@darienmiller1032 first 3 games technically. Super paper mario wasnt hyper self aware either or made the entire game revolve around "lol it's a paper world"
Tok has self aware jokes and a paper title and hyper real arts and crafts art style...but the way they're using it at least makes it feel more like an actual world compared to colour splash that legit looked like some kids art project...I'll give it that.
@@slenderfoxx3797 Jesus Christ what kids have you been looking at? I sure as hell have never seen a kid make a chain chomp and mountains out of cardboard
“If someone made a game like ttyd it’d just be derivative”
*laughs in bug fables*
Bug fables isn't all that great
@@newdawnhorizon9879 I very strongly disagree.
Tbh, the game really isn't like TTYD. It was its own thing in many ways. The main plot is the only thing that seems similar, and even then there's a lot of different nuance. Both games are excellent in their own rights
@@newdawnhorizon9879 it's great but not perfect, it's what fans wanted, but not quite, it's a great game. But it feels very overrated
The Mario and Luigi series: Imma pretend I didn't see that 🗿
I've heard it said on Reddit and I'll say it here - it feels more like the development team was checking off a list they made of "what fans wanted," and failed to realise _why,_ and it kind of shows. I'm happy partners are back, there's a non-Bowser villain, and the story seems to be deeper, but it still feels like a neatly folded Color Splash.
You can only do so much with Exp based turn based system. So its great they try to do something different but they cannot just make different for sake of it. They need make it new and better otherwise justification does not add up.
The battle system is also different from Color Splash, and it looks like it is TTYD battle system with a twist.
The japanese battle clip shows the options, and if I remember them correctly, they are: Jump Attack, Hammer Attack, Run, Assist, Items (The names could be a bit different, but they are basically the same thing).
There is also Toads watching the battle
haha, folded...
@@TheMrBrian26 amen
Sticker star 3
There's not even an excuse to keep avoiding rpg elements since AlphaDream is dead. I'm interested in what the design philosophy and marketing/branding discussions at nintendo look like for paper mario.
Looking at the gameplay we had on the japanese website showing the battle system we can see it looks more like traditional Paper Mario
Alpha Dream died while this game was 2/3 into production.
@@GmanSir The sad thing is a new team to develop a new Mario & Luigi might be made or enlisted before the next Paper Mario.
Not like their existence was a direct catalyst for PM's genre shift.
@@PipeGuy64Bit thats not gonna happen. I'm positive nintendo is done with the M&L series, since the last 3 games (Paper Jam and the 2 remakes) sold EXTREMELY poorly. They're not gonna make an effort to form a new team for a series that sells like garbage.
It's like once they started development on New Super Mario Bros Wii, Nintendo developed this bizarre fear that if Mario characters and locations aren't constantly in their most generic, vanilla, stereotypical form with no story it's bad for the brand or something.
Stonetown3487 It’s so frigging boring. I love the Mario series but it’s gotten so predictable and lame
They did have shining spots like Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2, Mario Odyssey and kinda Mario 3D World (being a bit crazier than usual) but it does seem to be that trend for the past decade or so now.
@Stonetown, you forgetting about Super Mario Odyssey and how wacky that was? Also, I don't see how the environments in Origami King look bland. If anything, they seem to keep away from the usual, "grass and ice" themes and have more variety. Examples; A giant, ancient Japanese-styled city? Vegas meets Arabian Nights? When have we ever seen this in a Mario game? Also, you forgetting about 3D World and Galaxy 2?
Mario Rabbids Kingdom Battle, Super Mario Odyssey, Super Mario Maker 2, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Mario Kart 8, and Super Mario 3D World debunk that argument.
@@mikemann9641 Every NSMB game validates it, especially with U Deluxe on the Switch. But people hold 2D gaming to a much lower standard than 3D.
Being realistic here, even as someone who doesn't like anything past Super Paper Mario I don't think the series will ever return and it kinda got cemented with this, its a different dev team and usually when series get a different brand of writers/directors a shift in tone is pretty much the norm. It's not even the same genre anymore it's completely switched identities and doesn't know what it wants to be, it's just whatever the game wants it to be. This is basically what to expect from any Paper Mario game going forward. A similar style with a theme gimmick tied to its aesthetic. To be fair though none of my complaints have anything to do with the actual game, but how it'll affect the fanbase in the long run. I don't know how to feel about the game actually, but I can say I don't actively dislike it like the previous two entries.
On one hand it does seem to retain the better elements from Stinker Star/Color Splash, but I'm worried for the state of this series. Hear me out, none of this has anything to do with the game itself. I actually think everything presented in game looks fine. In fact if I had any problems none of it actually tie to anything related to the game (aside from them overusing the Paper puns) but the game itself I don't have a problem with actually. My problem is what this does for the fanbase and consumers.
There's nothing inheriently wrong with doing anything new, but just because something's new doesn't make it good and vice versa, I don't even think it needs to be like the originals to be good, the real problem comes in that by them actively adding yet another gameplay style and shifting completely away they have only further cemented their fanbase to split apart and divide itself, which gives me HUGE Sonic fanbase deja vu. Now because of the new change in gameplay style and direction fans are going to be uncertain of what they want, opinions are going to be scattered and the producers are going to have no room to fullfill anything. It's already bad enough that the series has no idea what it wants to be anymore.
And often times you can't have a civil discussion without taking jabs or highlight "issues" you have with said games just to spin a narrative, when tbh a lot of what people say are either just that or hypocritical on their end. Especially when they say "its underrated" when it not. Or acting like its fine to defend one game, but not another.
By this regards the series it becoming more of the Sonic series the further they go down with this the more of that they become, I'm afraid of its reality. Because if the game is going to be good, its going to split the fanbase completely there are now going to be groups of fans completely there for different reasons. I'm not a fan of how fans are being blamed for the "toxicity" of this fandom, when really its Nintendo's fault for actively splitting their own fanbase apart with these decisions. And that's not to say harass them or anything, but their own decisions have led people to do this.
For example demonizing anyone criticizing this trailer as a specific fan which not only comes off as generalizing that's simply not a fair assessment to make. Just because of how loud they are people are just seeing that side of the fandom. It's annoying that they've been a generalized, just seeing that portion doesn't mean that's all their is to the fandom that just boils down to witnessing a specific perspective. I dislike this type of mentality.
Think of the Kirby series when have they actively split their fanbase up? Because they haven't, they've always been given or had consistent games to the point where its actually a pretty quiet fandom. I also think people just who want nothing but praise can be just as problematic because you're closing up any reason for people to show concern and for people to preach how people should "be quiet" doesn't help that.
My gripes aside I am going to wait for more to be shown before giving my overall judgement. I'm going to try the game itself tho and have nothing against the actual game itself, everything its purely outside of the game which I just don't know how to feel on. I will say it does look like a step above Stinker Star and Color Splash tho. I will say even though I'm going to try the game I'm not going to be apart of the fandom anymore nor am I going to expect anything on a grander scale, I'll just casually enjoy these games as a go forward because one series I love has went down this rut (Sonic) and it seems that way for another.
Damn, I wish I could pin this comment, but it's not my video lol. All great points dude.
"As someone who didn't like the games past Super Paper Mario" yes, I too am a human being.
I think I saw this comment on another video. Almost exactly
@@calemr Well guess what, I too am a human being and I actually liked Color Splash.
I think a good point to add would be, the game is meant for kids... not a bunch of teenagers and adults running around calling a child’s game crap because it’s to much like a child’s game.
People keep trying to say Origami King will be better than TTYD, I then ask them if they've ever played TTYD, and a majority of them say no, yet they yell at me for wanting the old formula back...
Yeah
Most people who haven’t played the original don’t get why we are complaining. If they did play it I guarantee that most of them would get it
Sounds like a bunch of children with no life experience or expectations.
Then that just means their argument has zero weight to it and their opinions are worthless.
I'm sure if they actually played the original 2 they'd probably say wow they had so much more fun and engagement playing it.
I played TTYD on an emulator until it softlocked when Professor Frankly opens the gate and I already like it better that Origami King lol.
Nearly every long-running game series has to reach the point of a game like Origami King, the originals are the best, the modern ones are bad and then comes the game that some people thinks its bad while others thinks its a step in right direction.
My personal oponion about Modern Paper Mario is that it focuses way too much on 'paper' concepts and parody then actual story.
Bug Fables is out on switch. Don’t care about paper mario anymore
Ok
yea i can definitely see where you’re coming from as bug fables is what most people want paper mario to be aka an actual rpg
Fans do it better. Check out Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling.
Literally started playing it today and it's an absolute blast of a game.
Also started playing it yesterday. It's SO much better than Stinker Star/Color Trash (unoriginal insult, I know). I couldn't bring myself to even fight Morton in CS, but Bug Fables is addictive and fun.
The paper Mario series has turned into sonic AKA the fans can make better stuff than sega can
I got this a few months ago, and I have to say it is an absolutely amazing game.
It's still not a Mario game though...will say as a game and as a story it does seem to be great on its own.
Agreed. Paper Mario needs to improve. I'm not kidding. Fire Tanabe, hire Kawade. I love this franchise so much (and I love PM64, TTYD and SPM) but I mean, Paper Mario deserves to improve. Give us new original and interesting characters and partners with their own abilities, mix between RPG and platformer (like SPM), TTYD combat system for bosses, have good and dark story, and allow Kawade, fans and creators of Mario&Luigi/BugFables to help creating a new good Paper Mario game with Nintendo.
Remember when we all thought Paper Mario would "return to form?"
I will never believe a rumor ever again :,(
Dude I seriously couldn't agree more. I'm tired of people saying "iT's A sTeP iN tHe RiGhT dIrEcTiOn StOp BeInG sO cLoSe MiNdEd". Your analogy of the baby steps this series is taking really resonated with me. The first time I watched the trailer I was ecstatic, cautious but ecstatic. When it finished, I just felt de-motivated. I felt defeated and betrayed. TTYD is literally my favourite game of all time and I bet you me replaying it for the 35th time will still be more enjoyable than where the series is headed. My theory is that they'll do one more game after this, which will have more slight steps in the right direction, and if it's received poorly due to lack of original characters and fresh environments, they'll blindly announce "Oh well, I guess no one likes Paper Mario anymore, what a shaaaaame" and that's where it ends. I want to believe this isn't true but i don't have the energy to deflect and defend anymore.
TL;DR I completely agree with you and I firmly believe this series has 4 years left alive. The franchise is now *PAPER* ᴹᵃʳᶦᵒ instead of Paper *Mario*
Nintendo is a company that responds to sales look at nsmb the last 2 sold well and chances are this one will do the same
@@Playerofakind but never listens to fans,only looks at hard numbers,nintendo only sees us just a numbers for there sales and nothing more or less.
@@lamihadamshareef5270 because for all they know they could be the loud minority Nintendo responds to sales because they are concrete the internet however isn't
The Thousand Year Door is my favorite game in the series too. I just think this game is a right step since Sticker Star and Color Splash though. That's my opinion.
@@lamihadamshareef5270 "But never listens to fans".
Literally the reason Twilight Princess exists is *because* Nintendo listened to fans who wanted a more mature take on Zelda.
Most dissapointing thing is the lack of original NPCs. Even if they didn't want to make their own, why can't they use NPCs from Odyssey, Galaxy, Sunshine. There's characters to pull from the mainline games that are unique and interesting but they seem to just stick with basic Toads, Goombas, Shy Guys, etc. It feels frustrating and tone deaf
Maybe the actual game has stuff like that, but what they've shown so far and the history of the last 2 games doesn't give me hope in the slightest
Sorry, but being hopeless won't help you.
@@mrjohnful ???
@@water223 Wow, you are really dumb. You have just said you don't have hope in the slightest.
@@mrjohnful I'm aware with what I said, I'm just confused with your response?
Being hopeless on a game isn't affecting me personally in anyway. I'm not invested to that degree
That's why I don't get why you said being hopeless won't help me. Because it doesn't exactly harm me ether
@@water223 Well, sorry if I misunderstood you. I only think that a lot of people is being negative for no reason. Look, I know that SS and CS almost ruined the hope for every gamer, but I want to see more positive opinions. That's all.
I’m pretty sure people would be fine with a game that is derivative from TTYD, we’ll take anything we can get at this point
You know it's finna be trash when people come out the woodwork talking bout "it's showing effort" and "it's a step in the right direction" and "we haven't even played the game yet" LMAO. I hail from the abused Sonic fanbase, I know this and I know it well. Yeah, no thanks.
THANK YOU! Omg I’m so sick and tired of hearing the same old tired bullshit every single time I try to voice even the slightest concern about the direction the series is taking! What these people need to understand is that fans like us have been with the series for nearly two decades now and have already been burned three times by Nintendo’s refusal to listen to us. At this point we’ve developed a good sense for when intelligent systems has dropped the ball on a new instalment, and it’s looking like this is yet another baby step in the right direction at best.
People can believe what they want....
I just keep my hopes low... and see how the game turns out.
And if Super Mario Party has proved anything is that there will be fans still defending it until a year later when it starts becoming cool to say how much of a disappointment it is.
Had you said this a year ago i would have disagreed but after what happened with Pokemon i'd say you are on point.
Sonic fans when we see people getting disapointed with new releases of other games: first time?
I think this take on things helps me to put some of my own thoughts and worries in order. Thinking of Color Splash as a parody of a Mario game is a really good way to put it in perspective, so thanks for that one.
Their approach to this series does baffle me... It's loud and clear that people want the series to follow the example of the first two games in the series, but instead of using those games for their foundation and figuring out how to include the wacky side they enjoy creating, they seem to be using the recent two games as their foundation and trying to retrofit elements that look like they came from the first two games, no matter how distant they may be. Even if the people working on the series are different, it's the same company behind it that it's always been. Do they not have access to their own talent that made the first games shine or something?
The guy who directed the old Paper Mario games has been directing the Fire Emblem Trading card game all this time, so that probably explains a bit.
I think your last question is onto something. I've heard they changed 95% of the team after Super Paper Mario.
When the melody plays and the bartender talks about Capt Bobbery.... gets me everytime
Admiral* 😔😔
@@aimeetrbl im sorry ive failed everyone :(
Two words: Bug Fables. It even builds off of some aspects of TTYD. And it may take heavy inspiration from that game, but it does enough to stand on its own.
Luckily we have Bug Fables.
Paper Mario went from an RPG to a Mario game with a gimmick
@BradleyJames Barlow I can see where you're coming from, but the lack of any true exp system in sticker star and color splash made the combat feel worthless, and with the amount of money you can farm early game in color splash those resources become de facto unlimited. Also, it's hard to call the game an RPG because there is no way to really customize combat, other than just buying different items. There's no character building (aka the badge system) variation to give players a chance to experiment or try new things. In the end, the combat in these new paper mario games lacks depth and becomes a chore best avoided.
@BradleyJames Barlow Depends how do you define an RPG -- there are RPGs that have damage systems that are typically real-time based, but use the health-magic-defense kind of system, and one of the core concepts of RPGs is the story which is already a blur as some non-RPGs have better stories than some that says they're RPGs.
BradleyJames Barlow The past two games are not RPGs. They’re turn based, but that doesn’t make them RPGs.
What I want:
Awesome Story
Interesting Characters
Partners with own Abilities and Personality
The OLD Battle System back! No Color or Sticker bullshit.
Yeh im just crossing fingers we get that but from the trailer im not having high hopes 23 dmg in the trailer that early in the game looks too strong something tells me there will be no partners in battle constantly wich is already a con plus no lvling system
well honestly all of those are seemingly happening, besides the battle system being different, but at least it's more traditional
The old battle system did have its fair share of flaws, like RNG (you can DIE from the crowd or the accessories on stage), and being tedious to where you fuck up one button on an attack the damage’ll go from 5 to 1, which can scree you up hard if theres more than two enemies. People usually stray away from Color Splash’s battle system because they actually have to use their brains to strategize what cards they want to use and how much paint it’ll take.
It looks like what you want is Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling. Just beat it today and I highly recommend it to anyone that likes the old Paper Mario games.
Your editing style and the pace of your scripts are seriously amazing, Jacob. How you write them too
In any case... As an uncultured plebian who has barely touched a Nintendo game but really wants to, I thought the trailer looked... Good.
But the way you lay it all out really sells how far from the mark the game really might be. The big sucker punch being the story about the original Bob-Omb party member.
Also, I LOVE crafted aesthetics in games, Pupetteer is one of my favourite games after all, but even I'm getting a bit tired of em'. And the fact that it really was never the point of the series but just a fun localization name, but became the essence of the series really blows the whole thing outta the water. And as you pointed out, it relates so strongly to the big ol' "joke" of the games too.
I don't understand why they refuse to make any unique characters. Everyone is just a plain toad bomb-omb ect. They wont even put any toadettes in the game.
You sound like you played the game already. Nintendo cant even release a trailer without people already hating the game they havnt even played yet. Lol wow, ungrateful selfish "fans"
Technically there's only one Toadette.
Even still, Paper Mario and TTYD managed to have a variety to how Toads look, both male and female. Why can’t we have that? Why do we have to settle for just same looking Toads but with a different color? Yes there was one wearing exploring gear, but his look underneath was just another generic Toad.
Calvin Ospina Ah yes those ungrateful fans who have to pay Nintendo 60 dollars for products on their Nintendo Switch that costs real world money
Calvin Ospina the point of a trailer is to generate hype and cultivate interest in the game. If it had failed to do so, why blame the consumers? People are disillusioned with the series because Nintendo has twice in a row released 2 underwhelming Paper Mario titles, and this one has yet to show much promises.
This pretty much sums up how I feel. After I heard rumors of a new paper mario that might actually be good, a had a glimmer of hope. Because sticker star was a misstep, and color splash started production right after, surely they would understand that we want a real Mario story. I even thought that maybe origami king could be what we’ve been waiting for because it looked like a step in the right direction. But there are too many red flags to ignore. I see now that Nintendo doesn’t care about paper mario anymore.
Your tone, your words, everything you said and they way you said it perfectly captures my initial feelings to this game. Remember when they actually focused on story and traditional RPG elements rather than the fact that the game has "Paper" in the title? Honestly it's sad that a fucking South Park game came closer to a traditional Paper Mario game than Paper Mario.
I just got the 2 south park games in a bundle and its so hilarious and fun it reminds me of the 2 old paper mario games im loving it
I think that battles kind of suck in TOK. There boring, repetitive, and there's almost no variety. Also there's LESS of a reason to battle than in Color Splash!
It's not about the paper it's about the story and the characters we meet along the way
The funny thing is that you were 100% right the game is pretty much color splash but with a different battle system and no world map, and even worse in some areas
Coming 2024 - Toilet Paper Mario Kids. The crossover we’ve all been waiting for.
And that's exactly where that game will end up being in. The Toilet.
*Starless that was a “shitty” joke
Once this game comes out and we see who all the "partners" are going to be, I will make my own redesign of them all to actually look unique and have their look fit their personality and role in the story.
Wait, no, "redesign" is the wrong word. That would imply they had been designed in the first place.
I hope you jsut replace Kamek with Kammy.
NAILED IT 100%, and before it even released!
If the Magikoopa is named Kamek, that’s good. Kamek is a specific character, Magikoopa is the species.
I bought Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling. It is the Paper Mario sequel / successor that I always wanted. My expectations going into Origami King are set so low after playing Bug Fables. I just can’t go back, not after having everything I wanted in an excellent indie game.
i agree with you i got bug fables instead too the origomi king was just so lame as it acted like it was a return to form but missed everything that made me fall in love with paper mario in the first place aka actual rpg elements original characters and deep story so i boycotted it for bug fables and it’s the ttyd sequel that i’d been begging for after all these years so much so that i’ll be waiting for bug fables 2 instead from now on
@@Kurumithespiritnightmare I really do hope there will be a Bug Fables 2! I have no hope that Nintendo will return to form. Nintendo Sony and Microsoft have all almost ditched turn-based RPG entirely…
@@defil3d i agree with you if they announced a sequel to bug fables in a few years i’ll be fine with paper mario not going back to form because i’ll have bug fables instead, yea unfortunately certain companies just don’t like making traditional rpgs now a days for some weird reason as they’re my favorite game genre
Actualy kamic is a specific magic koopa
The class is magic koopa
I wish lol it’s just the English word for Kamekku - which is the Japanese name for the magikoopa species which is also derived from another Japanese word - Kame - meaning turtle... I googled this the other day and was profoundly disappointed lol
@@CoachCarter94 It's his specific name in English to refer to the character from Yoshi's Island; if it weren't, they would've called him Magikoopa. In Asian and European languages like Japanese, German and Dutch on the other hand, Kamek refers to BOTH the specific character and the species, like Toad.
One thing worth mentioning is Kamek is an actual character. He is part of the race of magikoopa. Kamek is bowsers right hand magikoopa. Aside from that I agree with all this.
Can you tell a difference between the 2? No so it doesn’t matter
Nintendo’s contempt for story has gotten old. I can respect emphasizing gameplay, but the two aren’t mutually exclusive.
It’s like the only Nintendo series allowed to even have decent stories are Zelda, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, Metroid, and Star Fox when it's not being a softcore remake/retelling of Star Fox 64.
Thank goodness Hal Laboratories were faithful to the franchise. Star Allies probably has the most lore out of all the kirby games.
TehRainbowNoob Too bad they didn’t focus enough on the level design
Well...
If this fails, we will always have Bug Fables.
"There is no one who would put sticker star or color splash on their list of favorites."
*Mayro has entered the chat.*
Well I’m glad we came from the same place
Who?
Sticker star was the best in the series
@@Playerofakind Trolling lol
Mayro never said they were her favorites, just that she likes them.
The problem with the recent Paper Mario games is simple, Intelligent System Forgot(or wants to forget) that Paper Mario series are supposed to be their own intepretation of sequels of Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars for Super NES. Think about it, the original Paper Mario games have a lot in common with Mario RPG: They both have unique and great characters, an engaging great story, permanent partners who help out and Mario help them back, unique and diverse locations that each connects with the goal you're searching, Flower Points, similar badge system and overall really similar RPG battle mechanics. See what I mean? :) Paper Mario is supposed to be Intelligent System's sequel to Mario RPG, following with the same continuity and universe of Mario RPG and the other main Super Mario games, and the original PM, TTYD, and SPM did exactly that which is what they're all originally intended to do. Ever since Sticker Star, the full idea of Mario RPG is ditched, replacing with overuse of paper gimmicks, Action Adventure genre rather than RPG genre, and generic characters that you expect to see out of New Super Mario Bros series. Intelligent System nowadays thinks that Paper Mario's identity is about Paper, and what more mechanics they can do around Paper rather than concentrating the most important aspects. For crying out loud, even the beta title for Paper Mario is Super Mario RPG 2.
Eurgh, yes, all of this. It's so clear playing the first 2 games that the paper theme is just an aesthetic. It's a style in which to tell the story. The characters themselves aren't paper, it's just designed to look like a pop-up book. The last 3 games now are nothing but, "Hey, look at us! We're all made out of paper! And paint! And stickers!" It's like they don't understand their own world logic.
Actually I do think they understand their world logic, it's just that it's different from what was done before, not really applying the world building made in the earlier games.
If you miss the original Paper Mario, then you NEED to play Bug Fables!! You literally owe it to yourself!!!
I just hope the combat system isn't as bad as the last two games. I think the puzzle gimmick is okay because it forces players to think fast so personally I don't think it will get stale that quickly. I just hope that FP returns and paper mario returns to its old school rpg roots. Didn't this series exist because Nintendo wanted a sequel to Super Mario Rpg? What is the target audience for this series now?
7-10 year olds... Oh how this great series has fallen
In the japanese battle clip we can see it looks very similar to TTYD battle system
I feel like Mario and Luigi is part of the reason this series sucks now, which is sad because that series might be dead and it's most recent NEW game was pretty bland as well.
@@Pixnut31 Which I find to be a stupid argument when SS and CS defenders bring up because ALL MARIO GAMES are made age appropriate for kids.
And it's not like kids only want "lol random funneh jokez" all the time, they enjoy action with occasional drama as well, even horror on some occasions.
This was just...honestly such a masterpiece of a video. I am blown away with this editing.
It starts with a parody trailer, a joke if you will, about how this is totally NOT a return to form and how Nintendo doesn't seem to get it. It's the thesis told as a joke and it's such a good hook. IT could technically be its own youtube video. Then the VIDEO starts, and you start talking about the history of paper Mario. What made the first two games so good, and what made the last two games so hated. The transition that into the joke, but then REVEALING that the joke WAS IN the new Paper Mario games (That reveal really caught me off guard) thus EMPHASIZES the point you made earlier by making the intro a joke and followed by an actual heartfelt moment with Nintendo about how you hope it's good, and a plead to Nintendo how to make it better if it's not with a final closing thought.
The pacing, the storytelling, the overall structure. I watched this video that was 10 minutes long, and it felt more like a 20-minute story. You....my dear friend, just earned a subscriber.
This aged well
I mean it's still a Mario parody, but at least a good one now -- also, the battle system still clashes whether it wants to be an RPG or a puzzle game.
I like where you put Bug Fables on the map of Paper Mario games. Good touch there!
If it wasn't for the battle system this might have been promising. But then you have that ring based battle system. Not to mention the footage of the bosses. A box of color pencils, a tape dispenser, it seems like all the bosses other than the final one will be fished out of a box of office supplies. So much for characters. Even Sticker Star and Color splash had characters and bosses. Between that and how they've been turned into puzzles? Yeah, no. Maybe if it wasn't for that this could have been a decent game.
This video just breaks my heart, and all my tiny hopes have been shattered. My mask of there being a semblance of the old games has been torn right off.
I hope that even though the partners are unnamed, they make them good characters. Like, having some with backstory, some without. SOMETHING.
the bobomb's named bobby
It's funny, I see a civil discussion about the issues with Nintendo about the paper Mario/Mario Story series.
And then at the bottom there is a person just lugging slurs at a person giving an opinion, internet I guess
Huh, it's even flaring slurs at me now, neat.
1:52 Funny Nintendo's twitter literally did this asking people's fav moments from PM64 for its 20th Anniversary
and guess what everyone commented everything they liked from 64, TTYD and Super. Pretty much called it
I hate to admit it guys but paper mario was gone the moment the 3ds version was butched into sticker star. what a fuckin tragedy
This is exactly how I felt when I watched the most recent trailer for the game. What broke me was that the main bosses are all just stationary. Not based around them in a clever manner; just straight up stationary. Nothing says unoriginality like basing your games world around office supplies.
I respect your opinion (since I'm looking forward to the game) but saiyng "nintendo doesn't take this series seriously and it's something to fart out" because of the way they annonced it, did you ever get to think that they delayed the announcement because of a certain virus spreading around the world and they were unsure on when to announce it? Just saying.
Thats not the problem at all with how they announced it. Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, the problem is ever dropping a release or the first trailer without anticipation or in a big event is a bad sign for how a company views a product. If they delayed the announcement that would have been fine. But they should have still done siemthung to bring attention to it, else the ad would just fall under the waves of RUclips usually. Its a sign if blatant low expectations on a game. Just saying.
Wind-riding Moth do you think maybe this game was supposed to release later in the years but game that we’re supposed to be ready for the summer we’re delayed because of virus. And this game WAS ready so they pushed it’s release date forward. So any plans for a bigger reveal could (note I say could) have been scrapped due too it have less time, and with time ticking for something to come for we need some summer Nintendo game outside of xenoblade, so they put this game because it was ready? I’m not gonna call Nintendo a saint. They aren’t. Nor will I call intelligent systems, the devs of paper mario one either. But the virus does admittedly change plans.
@@ananshasheta926
Everything about this trailer screams that it would have been perfect, heck even *made* to be that last announcement for the direct mini we had. It would have been *loads* better than the pokemon announcement we got at the end. I imagine Intelligent System weren't ready for the deadline. I mean just the way the trailer starts makes it sounds like it was supposed to be a big deal, at least bigger than Color Splash. The thing with Peach scene is obviously supposed to generate intrigue and/or make the story seem bigger than it probably is.
I imagine we were then supposed to get a second direct that included a segment to explain everything (just like that Mario Tennis game) but then we got that rumor that Nintendo would probably not have a June/E3 direct and was telling their developers to just announce things at their pace. So the whole summary (Olly and Olivia's name, etc) was just dropped on the websites for ppl to read instead of having a video with a narrator telling us all the details.
Wind-riding Moth I was pretty sure there was going to be a direct around this time (based on some thing we heard form Nintendo) and I assume it was going be a part of that.
So now that it not happening how could they have announced it? If they said it was just a new game or said a new Mario game that would have people making expectation that are way overboard. If they said it was a paper mario that would ruin any surprise. With it being 2 month away they could not have waited any longer really. It was the best solution
Directs are literally two people in front of a green screen with some movie maker transitions. Trust me they could've done something if they wanted.
If it's bad then just throw out the whole paper mario idea and build mario rpg again from the ground up.
Look up the Mario and Luigi series. In Japan these games are supposed to be the actual successors of Mario RPG. The series is really good up until like the last game. Then it's just remakes and the company went under
The question is, who? Mario & Luigi is already gone, and Intelligent Systems are using the Paper Mario name as a parody (which isn't always bad, but it still is a parody). Square Enix probably don't care much about doing it. Maybe another third party developer that could be open in doing it?
To Nintendo, the first two games were the least successful because they both sold less than 2 million copies. However, TTYD had the highest attach rate with nearly 9% of the system's owners buying a copy, compared to 4% for all the other games.
So well said man. I really want to show this video to the creators of this game. Show them all our criticisms. These new games make me so sad man. Like i'm not mad just genuinely so disappointed. Life has been tough lately and these games are an escape for a lot of us. The origami king got me so excited and then heartbroken once I learned it wasn't an rpg. Bug Fables cheered up so much, I recommend that game to anyone who loves the first two paper mario games.
I'm so glad that you said that you don't like the white outline around the characters. I personally can't stand looking at it.
I find them very distracting and makes the characters feel out of place
@@chibi3593 Exactly. There are two things that Sticker Star actually did right. Sticker Star didn't have the white outlines and the world wasn't entirely made out of paper. Other than that Sticker Star was everything but a Paper Mario lol
So after all that, Paper Mario: The Origami King was actually pretty good. But that doesn't mean it still holds a candle to how the games used to be, and Jacob is entirely right in this video.
This pretty much sums up my thoughts and feelings on the whole thing, yeah. At least bug fables exists. Shame Miyamoto has to have a "put a dumb gimmick in it" mentality to everything he oversees now, as hes killed F Zero and Starfox with that bullshit.
One thing I say even tho I am a bit late, it is presumed, at least by me, that jammy died between ttyd and spm because of old age, kamek, the apprentice of kammy took her role after she passed away. Kamek is actually very different from other magikoopas, being closer to Bowser and Jr and in general having more skill than the average magikoopa. Just wanted to throw that out there cuz kamek is a magikoopa, but other magikoopas aren't kamek.
Thanks you!!! Kamek is not just any magikoopa
Kamek exists in other Mario games, though, whereas Kammy is exclusive to the PM series. It seems to me they just replaced Kammy with a classic Mario character in the hopes of luring in general Mario fans...
@@sophiefilo16 but again kamek is still not just a magikoopa, even if he doesn't have a unique look you can still see their personality, how loyal he/she is to Bowser and I like that, and I still stand that kamek is the successor to kammy in the PM games, even tho they look like a normal magikoopa they still have their own personality.
After all the new info we learned about today, This video is still right .
No it's not.
Thank you for having the courage to call this out for what it is-Sticker Star 3
Sticker star was actually pretty good
How tf is it sticker star 3
Good video, I agree with everything said here. I’ve loved the series ever since the first one so it’s such a shame to see how far it has fallen. Those “return to form” leaks got my hopes up but man, this is not at all what I envisioned. I suppose believing such leaks was on me.
Anybody know the mainbody Japanese fanbase's opinions on Paper Mario? Do they share the same as we do? I can't fathom how they don't get it after 15 years...
now that my freind is the right question.
Yez they do
Japanese views are similar to Europeans and Americans in general. Sticker Star sold well because it was on a handheld, but wasn't particularly liked.
In general, Paper Mario is like Sonic. It's not hated in Japan, but is way more popular outside of Japan. Mario & Luigi is the more popular series there.
One thing his predictions got wrong was with Bob-omb, for some reason he also got a heart wrenching story with him, why is that the only part they kept from the games
Amazing video, I've watched hundreds on videos about the sad fate of the PM series by now but your video had a very distinct feel that I really enjoyed.
You couldn't have summed up my feelings any better.
Man I wish Nintendo would make another Paper Mario game. It's been a long time since Super Paper Mario on the Wii.
Stop with this pessimism. Try to give hope to the game. We have so much stuff going on the trailer that excites me! Yes, it might not be like 64 and TTYD, but I'm sure this game will be fantastic!
The game hasn't came out yet and you're already hating on the game, don't buy the game when it comes out.
@@calvinospina7307 Don't you think he was too pessimistic in the video?
Calvin Ospina don’t worry, we won’t, but we will keep criticizing and pointing out the issues with this
@@mrjohnful We did that with Color Splash in 2016. I'm sick of having to "give games a chance" instead of actually trying.
Jacob are you okay? These levels of satire are unironically making me worried for your health
I think we watched different trailers, these graphics were absolutely stunning.
Snark aside... these 2 eras of paper mario definitely aren't the same franchise anymore. One is more heavily based on story and combat while the other ended up being more focused on exploration and humorous shenanigans. They mix together in some aspects, such as certaun shared ideals of combat and dialogue, but considering both to be the same franchise will only hurt both. You might not like the comedy in thr newer ones, but there are fans. It's its own thing now, and we can't change that...
however
nobody likes sticker star because it had not so good combat and uninteresting motivation, and color splash could have learned more from sticker star's failure.
but i still love color splash for all of its clever dialogue, beautiful art style, and... functional combat
You just got a new subscriber. I not fond of people still giving Nintendo license to make games in this series that only do the absolute minimum to improve. I'm not hopeful on this title and I really don't think this is a "step in the right direction" either. They need to shake up the formula and reinvent this series asap if they want people to really get invested into it.
I feel like Nintendo is trying too hard to get the spin-off titles in the Mario universe to have a lasting impression on people that just got to know them because of the Switch. I mean, come on, Mario is one of the most reconizable characters ever made, just slap him in the game and be creative with the rest of the cast. Why is it so hard when you've literally done this countless times in the past?
As someone once said, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.
But Nintendo not fixing broke things is their biggest problem, by far. The one time they tried something new like Breath of the Wild is also the best thing they made in a decade.
@@NickSchoenfeld I mean BoTW work which is great, but keeping what's good and improving other things surrounding is the most ideal IMO.
@@NickSchoenfeld Except BotW was what many Zelda fans have wanted for years.
I feel like we’re misusing the term “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” They aren’t trying to fix anything. They are trying something new, but aren’t pulling it off correctly, and still aren’t listening to fans. They could easily implement things like sticker, paint or origami mechanics and your partner like Kersti, Huey, or Olivia with the old Battle System and people would love it. Look, I love Paper Mario: The Origami King, it’s my new favorite Paper Mario game, but I definitely know that those past games like 64, TTYD, and SPM really had an impact on the franchise for its story, characters, and unique battle system. That’s not to say those games didn’t have flaws as well, but they were much less then the flaws we’ve seen in the last 3 entries.
@@PlushMaker400 Actually, that is using the term correctly.
I want it to be good and cautiously optimistic but I honestly have similar feelings to you. It just baffles my mind how Nintendo just outright refuses to go back to what worked
Why should they that seems a little lazy on nintendos part?
The last 2 sold well
Yeah I definitely agree with you on this, Jacob. The first two games I definitely have fond memories of from my childhood, but that's the thing. They're just MEMORIES now. Paper Mario has completely steered off course from what made the first two good in the first place. It's just plain sad.
I do feel the jab saying nobody likes the newer titles is a bit of a stretch, anyone is feel to like what they like. That being said I do agree with everything stated as someone who's only a fan of the first 3 titles. Though the Mario's Story thing I'm uncertain of, I always saw the paper thing as just a visual skin as to say "This is Mario, in a different world" it was just taking Mario into a different world where it told different stories, that's what made them so appealing because they felt like an expansion of the Mario world beyond the basic premises of mainline games. Which we play for entirely different reasons. And them being made of Paper because its "Paper Mario" and? Spongebob is a sponge, but not at any point does the show's dialogue need to reference that. They just showcase gags using his sponge nature. Just because it is in the title, doesn't mean it has to be emphasized or taken to the literal degree, otherwise you might as well say "Legend of Zelda has Zelda's name in the title, get it?" or with any other series. Not to mention I do think its a bit excessive to add it three games in. Especially when you consider their other writings which are superior. (I am hoping for Origami King just for the record, and this is from an old school PM fan)
With this new direction, they Super Mario Bros-Ified everything to where now its not anymore distinguishable from mainline titles with how much enemies, and items behave as if you were playing a Mario game (not helping with how much games seem to take from Super Mario Bros 3), it no longer feels like I'm playing a PM game, just a Mario game with a different skin. Obviously you still want the game as Mario, so just focusing too much on originality can feel tonally different, but at the same time you don't want to limit yourself either. Having Mario characters are fine if the games have other species that intertwine with them. Because realistically in a fiction told story, even with a species/race consisting of all the same thing, it usually is confined to just that specific place, if say the other species interacted with other people they wouldn't come across someone exactly like them. similar? yes. But to say every single species in the world is all the same race? Because even in other stories with races other worlds contain different races or beings. If not it makes the world boring!
True anyone has different tastes in what they prefer, but I dislike how Nintendo have actively chosen to split their own fanbase apart and have been willfully negligent when it comes to criticism. I also feel its taken the Modern Sonic approach where they have to feel the need to 4th wall constantly and just make jokes all the time. Granted I do think in Color Splash's case it does it better than Sonic and to be fair the writing is its strongsuit by far aside from its level design, but I also wouldn't lie and say its main appeal comes from its funny dialogue because that's all there is to offer from a writing standpoint, but it takes more to a story or experience than laughs. The gameplay was just not well design as well as certain other elements I couldn't enjoy the newer games and not just because they weren't like the older games.
I'll also say the combat doesn't have to be exactly like the older games either from a point by point basis, just good enough where it doesn't detract from the core experience. Because to me I find gameplay a key element in enjoyment factor. But I will also say combat was what made the older games flexible with replayability. I mean this franchise has changed so much it literally has no idea what it wants to be anymore. I can't say I can state what Paper Mario is because it doesn't have a core identity, change is fine for a series, but not when that changes comes at the expense of identity. But also shouldn't stagnate either.
The main reason I loved PM taking gameplay aside was it was a different take on Mario. Even 64 despite using the same plot structure made up for it by adding extra layers to it to help make it more its own thing. Toad Town wasn't just a town of toads if felt like visiting a city or town where the residents just happen to be people living their normal lives. When it comes to the tonal shift, it doesn't help that Ryota Kawade, the director of the first three games, was barely involved in the production of Stinker Star (the only credit he had for the game was "Special Thanks"), and most of its crew was never involved in the series before.
That's not what he said, he said no one's ranking the newer entries as their favorite game of all time or within their top games list. By contrast, loads of people have the first few Paper Marios and Super Mario RPG in the list of most beloved games.
@@SweaterSwagg True. Although people are clapping back by saying CS in particular is their favorite.
OHH, to hear that background music when your in front of the Thousand Year Door............, the memories come back.
Well executed towards the end of the video Jacob.
So how we feelin today Jacob
The parody analogy was right on the nose, I miss the feeling of grandure the originals had. They felt so cinematic, it was a real treat to see those stories play out. And I'm on board with you about the aesthetics as well. The cardboard environments look so flat and lifeless, I miss the lovely pastel backgrounds of the first game and the wonderful illustrated textures and objects that made up the worlds, and they did a lot to make them look interesting.
If the next Paper Mario after Origami King were to be a complete return to the first two games. I’d be fine if the drawback was that there was a once a chapter gag that basically takes the piss out of Sticker Star and Color Splash.
A small price to pay for salvation
If you want a game with the same energy as the old ones, check out Bug Fables.
"WE GET IT THIS TIME!!!"
Sadly Nintendo needs to make another Paper Mario game like the first 2. It's what people like and want. The Final Fantasy series kept its core mechanics for a lot of games, so why is Nintendo being so stubborn about this and insisting on adding a "unique" flair to a new game? I'll gladly play a new Paper Mario games that just feels like a TTYD stand alone expansion pack.
@Drewskey _The Final Fantasy series kept its core mechanics for a lot of games_
Nice how that one flew right over your head.
@Drewskey Name one video game franchise where people said the formula got stale after 2 games. Also Mario Kart and Party exist.
@NINTENDO_SONYFAN SOLDIER The success of the FFVII remake says otherwise.
Great video dude, that first 2 minutes was fucken hilarious. Just wrote a video script regarding this game. I'm on a similar page to you with this stuff. They definitely don't seem to get what made the originals great. That bobbery shit hit me right in the soul gland btw. Bravo.
Very few people even like sticker stars and colour trash I hate those two games I didn't even by em
I think if sticker star to orgami king were just spin offs as they're making paper Mario RPGs as well, I think people would take the new games alot better(I will admit color splash got it's charms, but to me thousand year door feels... More natural and less forced of a joke), hell, I'd settle for them to make a paper Luigi spin off of his story during thousand year door, for a switch title, that'd definitely show fans they atleast get what makes the original two games so we'll recieved
At this rate we might get original characters again in 2036, and true rpg mechanics in 2050!!!!1
Paper Mario 64 is by far my favorite game of all time, I have replayed it time and time again, yearly. And i swear even on the 20th playthru I found hidden stuff I was unaware of.
"Mario Story" should have stayed.
Hey man, I sympathize with all your points and think you're mostly spot-on. Some minor quibbles but not what I'm here to do: Pick up Bug Fables currently on PC or in a couple days on Switch if any of you want a Paper Mario-esque experience without Nintendo's current philosophies messing things up. It's got a great story, a fantastic cast of characters, and your "partners" are your permanent party and all have deep storylines of their own and humor aplenty. And the battle system is TTYD with some twists here and there, like being able to give a character's "turn" to another character.
6:15 dude I love Alro
Nitpick aside though this is a great video! While I’m cautiously optimistic for Origami King, you make some great points about how it could just be another letdown of a game. Although one thing I am gonna say is that I felt like there was a lot of cherry-picking at Colour Splash’s dialogue, because that specific example was very late into the game and also not nearly as obnoxious as you made it seem, at least for me.
I think the best flex would be if the Thousand Year Door remake ends up being both faithful to the original. . .and has sales that blows Origami King out of the water.
I mean I didn’t actually hate color splash (sticker star only has, like, 1 redeeming quality so I still hate it) so if this game actually manages to improve the battle system no issues here. I’m not expecting the game to be perfect right off the bat; fixing the battle system and story is good enough after 2 games of “why would you do this... twice...”. If it does keep its promises, any new games in the series better have unique characters >:3!
I couldn't agree more with this.
Even after the second trailer (which is what I can sum up as a double-edged follow-up), I still have the same thoughts.
The dev team, yeah, they're taking baby steps, but with Miyamoto telling Tanabe to take all these drastic measures to basically neuter the series of what people grew to love it for, and with Kudo further confirming that they have no plans to change this formula since Sticker Star? I'm sorry, but they're still being as obtuse as ever. They've had 8 years and now soon to be more in counting to fix this series.
*Came back after 100%-ing the game.*
They blew it... A-GAIN.
This series has been poorly treated similarly to how the Sonic series has been treated for the past 10 years now. It's truly sad.
Exactly it feels like we went from sonic adventure 2 to sonic 06
agreed paper mario is in a similar identity crisis to sonic luckily sonic mania was a return to form can’t say the same thing about origomi king for paper mario though *hashtag play bug fables *
The trailer for the game dropped 64 days before the game’s release, either nintendo is foreshadowing something or they dropped the trailer a month and a half before the release of the game just to make a funny joke. Probably the latter.
There were a lot of things they didn't show off other than the battle system. The traversal, that new arms mechanic. They do that all the time, show off glimpses and establish stuff later. I've learned to not jump to conclusions when it comes to stuff like this.
Why you gotta call California Sticker Star, ouch!
You should do a video with Arlo!
Both California and Sticker Star are utter garbage lol
@@Klonoahedgehog well that's the first time I've seen someone call California garbage
yea if anything sticker star should be north korea as it’s also restrictive in many ways jokes aside of course
Dude.
The combat says "Mario's turn." partners implied. Also, the combat seems super cool.
The only partner move we've seen is a generic head bump. We don't see anyone ever selecting a partner move. We don't even see partners in most the screenshots.
@@Immallama22 Don't you pay attention to the age of the comment you are commenting on?
They need to put Miyamoto into an old folk's home.
Whoa there. That's a huge statement your making.
IratePirate Indeed, he’s holding the Mario series back at this point
@S C You get nosebleeds being so high up on your pedestal?
You articulated all my problems with the modern Paper Mario series, thank you.
Color Splash would really be at my list, I know it sounds like a stupid thing to shoe-horn into the comment section, but it is. I enjoyed the game, and maybe that's because I played it after SPM when I had played no other game previously to that. I felt it fun enough to beat the game and do all the Roshambo (no matter how bs it was). I understand people who started with the og 2 being disappointed because the game wasn't the same for the next 3 (now 4) entrys. It must be frustrating to have to wait up to like... 10 years to get something even close to the semblance of what you loved.
Well, we did get Bug Fables which is absolutely inspired by the original 2. My problem with SS/CS is just how much of a step back they are creatively. Nobody has the right to tell you what games you can and cannot like, so you're more than entitled to love CS. I AM curious if you'd put Color Splash above Super Paper Mario though? As someone who has played all of them, I'd rate them like this:
6: Paper Mario - Sticker Star (the worst one, easily)
5: Paper Mario - Color Splash (much like SS, a few improvements)
4: Super Mario RPG: Legend of the 7 Stars (loved this growing up, think 64 and TTYD did a lot better)
3: Super Paper Mario (easily the best story, music and villains in the series)
2 : Paper Mario 64 (I think it has a better world and Chapter 3, 4 and 7 rule)
1: Paper Mario - The Thousand Year Door (best gameplay, great everything else, Chapters 3, 6 and 8 are great)
Probably a pretty predictable list outside SPM beating Mario RPG lol. Bug Fables I'm still playing but honestly if I were to rate it, even now it'd be 4-3ish , great game and I'm still early on.
i agree with you it’s not that they are making games like sticker star and color splash it’s the fact that they’re making them instead of games like 64 and ttyd it’s that the old fans haven’t had a game since 2004 so they’ve spite is definitely justified as i can understand wanting something similar to the things that i loved at least we have bug fables to hold us over for now but yea i agree with you it is frustrating that we had to wait for over 15 years for a game that has everything that we loved