It is refreshing too how in original Trek, they could make very subtle references and pay actual homage in a clever way that you may not even notice the first time an episode or film is seen. Recent Trek is certainly not subtle at all with the constant “Easter Eggs” that appear every ten seconds.
The design of the 'D' was NEVER intended to fit inside Spacedock. Andrew Probert, who designed the ship for TNG, intended it to dock outside under the rim, facing outwards. That's what some of the details on the 'D's spine are, connections. But budget, as usual, gets in the way and it was cheaper to reuse the ST:3 shot with the 'D' replacing the original.
So many interesting docking connections and "hardpoints" incorporated into the ship's design, yet the only ones that never went to waste on-screen were the "catwalk" connections that docked with the side of the inter-hull. On the upside, at least they gave us that visual clue that turbolift cars were passing through the catwalk between ship and starbase...
Before the use of the Spacedock model and what you describe, they were hoping to make a completely brand new design. The earlier sketches he did for Starbase 74 show something much smaller, with docking arms projecting outwards. The E-D would then dock with her nacelles snug inside the armatures and then a docking tunnel would connect either to the top or to the place as seen in the episode. Conceptually it looked a lot like the Vanguard station design but without the K-7-like large habitat disc.
This is once where I'm actually glad they did this. the Spacedock design (basically just a giant mushroom in space) looks like something build by a very advanced civilization. It's not this rickety thing that looks like it was assembled in space. Rather, it looks like a huge construct designed to be a habitat. Something like an arcology, but in space. Spacedock (and all Federation starbases based on this design) give the Federation this feel that it's very advanced.
@@apreviousseagle836 But still, it doesn’t matter how advanced it looks or how cool it is, if it can’t fit a ship in it, especially the Flagship of Starfleet, then it’s not so useful, if you’re gonna have a flagship and need it to be repaired, and you know it will need to be repaired, you gotta me the entrance of the space dock larger. Heck, Star Trek Online rectified this on ESD and other stations by having lots of Drydocks around the Space Dock, for many ships and sizes.
It would have been so easy for the Search For Spock writers to insert a new self-destruct code sequence yet they took the time to go back and obtaine the exact code sequence that was used in the TOS episode ensuring continuity.
Another great video-I really appreciate your channel and all the work you put into it. I never noticed that the same song was played in the two different bars. As a side note I love the scene in the search for Spock when McCoy is in the bar, and he asks the alien “how can you get a permit to do a damn illegal thing?” Classic McCoy. And although I realize it’s not exactly a fan favorite, but I have also always loved “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield.” I think the dialogue is pretty snappy and it makes a great point about what hatred is capable of doing. It was also directed very well and had several unique angles that are not seeing another episodes. The self-destruct scene is a great example of how the directing builds tension. So I appreciated your showing the footage from that episode too. Keep up the great work!
Thank you! It's comments like this that really makes what I'm doing feel worth it. One of the fun camera tricks they did in "LTBYLB" was the in-and-out shots of the red alert light--a definite homage to the Batman series, as the Riddler starred in that episode. For being so derided, the third season really added a lot to Star Trek lore. The franchise would have been greatly diminished had the third season as we know it not happened.
Yes, on average, I liked the 3rd season (over all) better than the 2nd (acknowledging that the 2nd season had better individual episodes-yes “Doomsday Machine” I’m looking at you). From season 3, All Our Yesterdays,” Is There in Truth no Beauty,” “Battlefield,” “The Tholian Web,” “Spectre of the Gun” are all episodes I thoroughly enjoyed despite the budget being much lower. It would have been interesting to see how a fourth season would have panned out.
Remember in Star Trek 3:The Search for Spock Saavik revealed to David that Spock was going through the Pon'Farr the Vulcan mating ritual where a Vulcan goes through every 7 years of they're Adult lives where a strong instinct forces them to return to Vulcan to find a mate otherwise they'll die as Spock mentioned in an episode where it is like the salmon on Earth where they return to the rivers where they were born so in a lot of ways Saavik was helping Spock with what he was going through.
And with how quickly he was developing due to the Genesis effect, it's entirely possible that Saavik "waiting a couple of hours" for Spock to become an adult could have killed him. But that also leads me to wonder: how many times would this "reborn", hyper-developing Spock have gone through Pon'Farr on his way back to being the decades-old Vulcan who was eventually rescued? And how many times did Saavik have to... help him? 😏
The least interesting and Best connections were the dialogue during docking. The same procedures should be used for spacedock and therefore the same commands and responses should be used. This shows good initial writing and good adherence to continuity. I am sure the commands and responses would sound familiar to any person working on a ship.
Like "Star Trek: The Motion Picture," "The Search for Spock" is severely underrated. Dozens of elements from STIII are reused in TNG. That's one of the great things about Trek.
@@leoperidot482 That's only according to some. ST: The Motion Picture may not be good Trek, but it's excellent Science Fiction. And ST: III may have had a somewhat weak story, but it set precedents for all of ST to follow: The Klingon dagger, the Klingon Bird of Prey, Proto matter, The Klingon Targ, and so on. Lots of great things were established in ST:III.
@@ajmittendorf ST II: TWOK, has always been most popular of the series. It has an old enemy, space battle, loss of a beloved character, new popular character, old characters feeling the passage of time, new captain, long lost son. ST IV: TVH, has another reoccurring theme; time travel to the past. It brought whale preservation to the forefront. ST VI: TUC, brought back space battles. I think this was the first time where members of Starfleet were exposed as being corrupt. Starfleet just went downhill after that. However good prevailed in the end. ST VIII: FC, everyone loves Starfleet's mortal enemy, the Borg, and an epic space battle. Plus this turned out to be an origin story. And another time travel to the past theme. ST X: N, has epic space battle, loss of a beloved character, old characters moving on.
I really love ST:TMP, it is a unique experience, and the only live action Trek we ever got from the '70's, and it shows! Severely underrated indeed. I like your list of things TNG inherited from TSFS, you listed several things I was going to, let me just add a couple things to it: the general look of the TNG Klingons was established in this movie, as was the Klingon language. The only major aspect to the Klingons in TSFS that was left out of TNG was their two-dimensional villain vibe. BTW, it's good to hear from you again!
@@ustrekkie92 *Earth Space Dock* was revealed to have been designed and constructed using *Expendium,* a technological leap forward for metallurgy and material technology, said to have been secretly obtained by reverse-engineering alien technology (rumor has it a crashed *Borg* vessel was 'researched'). It was incorporated into the *ESD's* outer shell spaceframe in such a way as to allow expansion of the outer shell when need arrives without effecting any of the internal bulkheads and enclosed areas contained inside the spaceframe or the air seals between bulkheads critical for life support. All passageways, ports and space hanger doors grow or shrink accordingly without losing their relative dimensions and dimensional ratios. This design was heavily affected by a forward-looking philosophy anticipating future larger designs of starships and the need to serve them. _Disclaimer: I seem to have too much free time on my hands._
apparently several screenwriters and special effects technicians were unaware of this size difference (which I always thought was exaggerated and unnecessary for the galaxy class); this naivety led to other big nonsense, and perhaps the biggest one is the "bird of prey paradox" that in TSOS and TVH was smaller than the constitution, and in TNG it became immense. Well, but in made-for-TV movies these "small details" are still forgivable, considering the rush of production and budget limit. however jjprise is a joke.
The 'Jazzy' Star Wars 'Creature Cantina' like music played in the Stardock lounge from Star Trek III was composed by the late great James Horner. It's called 'Bar Source' and the music bleeds into a modernized depiction of 'Tangerine', not the old jazz tune your video suggests. In the 23rd century 'Big Band' era made a Big Bang come back. ;) Otherwise, great video!
You know, in retrospect, those 1701 destruct codes weren't the most secure passwords. And they NEVER changed them after blurring them out loud on that TOS episode... ?
LOL! I always assumed they were voice recognized, - the codes were more like "pin codes" - where you need to HAVE something (your ATM card or your voice) and KNOW something easy to remember that you know (pin code or the destruct code) - and requiring 3 officers was enough protection.
I noticed you used the DVD version of the TNG episode. How does the star base approach compare in the remastered TNG Blu-Rays that have the recomposited effects? Did they use the same alt takes that were used originally?
The use of the Search for Spock footage to represent Starbase 74 was not because they were trying to create a homage to the scene per se, but because the budget didn't allow for them to build a new model and then film such extensive new special effects for it that they originally wanted. You can find early concept sketches for this done by Andrew Probert online.
@@nowhereman1046 comments with hotlinks automatically get put on hold for review, but I don't see anything from you pending. Please try posting again, I really do want to see those sketches!
@@MetaTrek I tried to help you guys by sending a link to a website with the sketches, but apparently whatever it is that's blocking links for him is jinxing me as well.
@@mikedicenso2778 thanks for trying! It's something youtube is doing. Seeing your comment, I went ahead and googled the sketches. I'm pretty sure I found them, but if you want to try sharing the link again, maybe separate the .com from the rest so it's not a hotlink, and I can put it back together in the address bar.
Great comparison video, lots of information for fans of the the show, presents a balanced look at the technical and story telling side to it. My only comment would be to the reuse of the Space Dock One model from TSFS. ILM, who shot the elements for VFX in the 70s, 80s and 90s used Vista Vision cameras. These cameras took normal 35 mm film and shot them on the side, 90 degrees from normal, giving more than double the surface area to work with (4 perf vs. 8 perf). The aspect ratio of these cameras were 1.5:1 in the raw negative vs. 2.35 :1 for theatrical release. It looks like to me, this is the same SD1 element, same planet backdrop (though not supposed to be earth in 11001001) but these elements were re-composited with the new shots of the Ent-D 2' model in the wide shot on the approach to the Starbase, then the 6' Ent-D model for the close-up shot through the open doors. TNG was posted on video tape back in the 80s & 90s, but shot on film which is why they were able to do such an amazing HD restoration by going back to all of the film elements, even the ones from the TOS-films. Coolest reuse of an element is the explosion of V'ger at the end of TMP, reused as Gomtuu's attack on the Romulan Warbird in the episode Tin Man.
Wow, thanks for that awesome explanation of how they filmed the space dock effects! I don't have the technical knowledge to understand how they were able to get so much more of the station in the TNG shot, as well as more of the moon, than they did in the widescreen version in STIII. I knew they had to have gone back to the original footage, but beyond that I was at a loss. Also totally awesome tidbit about Tin Man's reuse of TMP effects. Never realized it, although I always thought it looked beautiful, and I think the effects at the end of TMP are some of the most beautiful sfx shots ever.
@7:30 the dividual. That, 'Jim help me... Help me Jim', was a nod to the TOS episode 'The savage Curtain'. SPAAAAHCK, Help me SPAAAHCK! Help me Kirk! Kiiiiiiiirk! Help me! 😅🤣
An excellent comparison indeed. I have to admit; it was also interesting to watch a Star Trek "documentary experience" like this while listening to Jeremy Soule, so thank you for that as well. 🤟
How about comparing the episodes where Kirk and Picard get possessed. Another episode where the both crews get infected with some kind of bacteria that makes them feel inhibited. Another episode where both captains justify breaking the Prime Directive. Another episodes where show captains go after their own renegade captains; Kirk goes after Ron Tracy, Picard goes after Ben Maxwell, Janeway goes after Rudy Ransom.
The great clip of the Enterprise leaving Spacedock sparked a thought, so at the risk of sounding like Columbo (“one more thing…”) here goes: It is often stated that a starship must be at a decent distance from the gravity well of a sun or at least a planet before it can engage warp drive. The original series sometimes seems unclear on this, but in the motion picture, even though Kirk was in a hurry, they got well past the orbit of Jupiter before moving to warp speed. But Star Trek III is perhaps the clearest refutation of this concept since they engage the warp drive while they seem to still be in a high Earth orbit. Interesting. I don’t know if there’s ever been an on-screen discussion of the concept or not. Just a thought.
Just going to presume that it’s not recommended, but can be executed under the right conditions. Just like a cold start of warp engines…dangerous but doable. With advancing tech it’s probably not as dire as it once was…like leaving space dock at impulse instead of thrusters…just saying
An additional issue with going to warp inside the solar system is that there would be a much greater chance of hitting something, as the system would have to be filled with ships, space stations, an any number of other things you wouldn't want to hit at any speed, let alone warp speed! Also, your thought about the Enterprise leaving Spacedock sparked another thought, going to warp too close to a planet could tear the atmosphere away from the planet (that was part of the plot of one of the novels), yet Kirk goes to warp close to the earth in STIII and well within the atmosphere in STIV!
It’s a rule that sounds great and sophisticated when it comes to the background world-building, but then writers simply disregard it, or are never aware of it to begin with, when the story calls for it. They simply don’t care.
How did I never know that this episode was an homage to that film?? I realize obviously a lot of it was due to low budget, but they managed to turn it into a rather positive spin. I’ve seen the entire TNG series a hundred times, I watched it when it first aired… I just never knew there was this connection!
All of classic Star Trek is much more interconnected that it might seem. Sometimes the connections are a part of the in-universe narrative, but much more often they're not, and I think the creators of the show hoped no one would notice. I currently have two other connections videos to watch if you haven't seen them already.
It wasn’t an homage - it just ended up having the effect of looking like an homage. TNG’s effects creators reused the footage from STIII and superimposed the Ent-D onto it, it was done purely for budget-saving reasons.
Wow, thank you so much for your incredibly kind words! I’m truly honored that you think so highly of my work, especially with so many great Trek RUclipsrs out there. I really appreciate it, and I’ll keep striving to live up to your praise! LLAP!
The only thing that makes sense about the scene is maybe by the time of tng there were numerous space docks scattered all over the quadrant that could fit a galaxy class in them
You missed a big one: both plots revolve around restoring a massive off-site data backup as the main plot driver -- the Binar homeworld's computer data from the Enterprise's computer, and Spock's katra from McCoy's brain!
lol - wow thats brilliant - I must admit - I had no idea these two stories were connected at all, so this entire vid was entertaining - but this comment is really next level. - what I find interesting, some of these plot devices, seem incredibly smart to me, but maybe there are style-guides for writers - and its a pick-and-mix job. - I would love to get formal training in writing.
Great point! I'm sure there are more similarities still to be discovered. As with the other comparison videos, when viewers find enough similarities that I missed, I'll due another video, with proper credits given. So if you notice more, be sure to post them!
@@MetaTrek - Its waiting for you :) - Put me down for a copy :) - I subbed to your channel - watched a few more vids - not sure how you make these connections, must be quite a bit of work involved.
Thanks for subscribing! No, no, that book's all yours for the writing! Put ME down for a copy please . . . As far as the connections, it starts with a few similarities that I've noticed over the years, but then a whole bunch more always become apparent once I start working on the video.
5:13 I am just now noticing that Scotty says "Commander Montgomery Scott, Chief Engineering Officer". But at this point, Scotty is the 'Captain of Engineering' on the Excelsior. You can see he wears the rank of Captain on his jacket. I'm not saying this is necessarily a mistake as the Enterprises was to be decommissioned and the computers probably were not updated.
That's a great catch. I think you're right about the Enterprise computer not being updated. As you point out, Scotty also called himself "Chief Engineering Officer," which was his former position on the Enterprise.
This is a great breakdown. Well done good sir! Love it when great Star Trek content pops up. Subscribed:) I've always been a big fan of Star Trek 3, even if it ruins the supposedly even number Trek is the only good movies argument.
Welcome aboard! For me it's the first four movies that were good, and the last two not so much, even though everyone seems to love ST:VI. Don't get me wrong, I still watch them, but not as often as the others.
Damn you caught stuff no one has ever noticed. The finding reverse image by the registry number requires a level of examation I rarely see; BEYOND IMPRESSIVE
@@MetaTrek dude that attitude is one only a true trekkie can have. I am finding your takes on the Q very interesting. I get the logic that you say of you know they’re supposed to be diplomats, but they kind of treat him like shit might take is is by the point that they’re treating him like shit they’ve already decided that they can’t treat him like they would other world diplomats but I understand your take. I also think that off screen somewhere Picard and Riker very likely discussed how they would handle when he shows up again, and they probably decided to show a United strong front to try to push him away like you do the bullies. Any thoughts
I could see Picard and Riker doing that, and it makes perfect sense. They had to have known on some level that Q wasn't the big bad that they pretend that he is, because he could have easily ended their existence with the snap of his fingers. So despite Picard's professed lack of trust in Q, he trusted him enough to treat him "like shit" knowing full well what the cost could be.
@@MetaTrek love that explanation. Also after a tried to put a rift between Picard and Riker when he tried to turn Riker into a q likely lead to discussions after on how to handle when he shows up again
There was no reason for the programming of Minuet to disappear when the Bynars left. That was just convenience to not have to deal with the fact that Riker would be in love with a holographic character for the rest of the season. By the time of Voyager, it seems the writers were more open to the idea, they even had the Doctor be romantically involved with a human woman in the finale.
@@MetaTrek So I think due to the fact they needed to make self contained episodes, they essentially had to reset what happened in every single one (with minor exceptions). It would have been interesting to have some minor ongoing arcs in the series.
@@apreviousseagle836 we probably would have gotten more continuity between episodes had it not been for Rick Berman. It's my understanding that he (and he alone) refused to allow it. That, of course, started to change after Babylon 5 premiered, and DS9 got the benefit of that.
Yup. Did what was necessary, and without any hesitation. Good thing they were able to see it purely in a biological context. It would never be in a big studio film plot today.
And eventually death if she did not do him. Something Saavik well knew. As a reminder, if Pon Farr's chemical imbalance is not resolved in on or about eight days either via the ritual combat or sexually, the Vulcan going through it will die. As fast as Genesis was destroying itself, she had hours at best.
My favorite comparison is the self destruct commands codes between Kirk, Spock, Scotty and Chekov. Only difference: countdowns. 30 seconds in the episode Let That Be Your Last Battlefield and 1 minute in the movie Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock.
Well, I'll be a Tribble! I never would've even thought to look at the Original Series for the self destruction code to be the same. Ah who am I kidding? I wouldn't have guessed any of this! My attention span was too focused on the movie or the show for what was happening right then. I can only say thank you for posting this. It was really cool. Let's not forget to say that to the writers for trying to keep it all straight, even if warp speed 🌈 got used near the planet 🌎. LLAP ✌
It's okay if you didn't notice these connections, it's my job to point them out! Despite the fact that warping out of orbit would be a very bad idea, it's still one of my favorite moments in all of Trek. Kirk and crew were willing to risk it all to help their friends. Thanks for posting!
I know I'll get a lot of hate, but the Enterprise, and especially the Enterprise-A, were far, far more elegantly beautiful ships than the ruptured duck Enterprise-D. The E regained much of that beauty
It's well known that Roddenberry hated the movies. So it's not so much an homage but I think a case of swiping better visuals to prop up his new show. Star Trek had grown so big, and is so big, it can't be run by just one man anymore. With the failure of the first film it was clear Gene had no more ideas to give to Star Trek. He had to recycle them from the Classic Series or take them from the feature films.
Sorry, but just saying he “hated the movies” is reductive nonsense. He had many criticisms of THE WRATH OF KHAN, and while some of them can be ascribed to jealousy others were actually spot-on. But he had some positive things to say about THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK, and much enjoyed THE VOYAGE HOME, as evidenced by Majel Barrett’s participation. Most would agree that his intense dislike of the premise for THE FINAL FRONTIER turned out to be justified by the finished product. He was indeed not happy with THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, and sadly died shortly after screening it.
The only Klingon who could speak english was Kruge. His men had no idea that the computer was counting down, they thought it was giving orders. Also, before TNG, it was dangerous to beam between moving ships, without using the transporters. Because of that, the Klingons locked on and entered through the enterprise's transporter room, hence kruge's order to "get out there" was correct.
Exactly. Why would Klingons be talking to each other in English on their own ship? That was just translated for the benefit of the viewers. However I will say that Maltz could also speak English.
@@taopilot2669 Oh, I completely forgot about Maltz. Yes, the official Klingon dictionary cites him as a primary source. Funny Note: Marc Okrand told the story at the QepHom in 2019 that when they went back to the 24th century, they forgot that he was still in the Bird of Prey's brig and Maltz could escape to San Francisco, where he lived in Okrand's basement and dictated the dictionary to him....
Well. Look at it this way. From Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan to Star Trek - First Contact. And all seven seasons of The Next Generation. Paramount Pictures hired George Lucas's special effects company Industrial Light and Magic for the above projects for the special effects.
the lighting and coloring are just because of different film quality, the slightly different position in relation to the planet could because they didn't use the finished negative but recomposited the different elements of the matte and the model
Wow this video happened up onto my feed & it’s exactly what I’m looking for. I only consider TNG/DS9/VOY to be canon (not including TNG films) but if videos in this format were created within my restrictive personal window of acceptable content then I would be enthralled.
Although my main focus is TOS, I will be delving into TNG as well. I can see there will be opportunities to speak about DS9 and Voyager too, but it will probably be a rarity. Thank you for posting and I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
the films are canon. Sisko directly mentioned and gave Worf condolences over the destruction of the Enterprise-D. Chief O'Brien does too in DS9's "Way of the Warrior" not to mention one of the main reasons why Worf was there, available and eventually permanently assigned to DS9 in the first place. The Borg incursion of First Contact and the Dominion War and the Enterprise-E, while a distance from the main fighting, her share of action was mentioned several times in Insurrection as well as Worf's main position on DS9 by Picard's joking "reprimand" of his being late. Nemesis, Janeway making an appearance needs no further explanation. While fans not considering Discovery or much of Picard canon is one thing(Lower Decks, bring back the Titan, Riker and Troi, marriage still strong and the long overdue of the TMP/TNG theme. Prodigy with Janeway'sreturn looks promising, Tuvok coming back with Janeway would have been even better especially with Spock's, Scotty's and Odo's return so far despite Leonard Nimoy, James Doohan and Rene Auberjonois being no longer with us. I'm reserving judgment on Strange New Worlds. Not been on or completed a season to judge. Most Trek series didn't start to get good until their respective third seasons with the exception of TAS which is more a season 3.5 to TOS for all intents and purposes. The gap between the end of the first five year mission and the refit of the Enterprise till we see her again in TMP and the events thereof and another five-year mission before the red jacket uniform change and the events of the Wrath of Khan and beyond we all know and love. On canon, the fact is, whether we agree or not if Paramount/CBS airs it, specifies which timeline it belongs, and a Roddenberry signs off on it, it's canon. They can be overruled by Paramount though. It's well-known and documented Gene Roddenberry didn't like and wanted to decanonize all movies past TMP, the only one he directly produced. Paramount, Harve Bennett, Nicholas Meyer and later Leonard Nimoy himself overruled him on The Wrath of Khan. The Box Office, fans, the successes and very existence of all that followed made Gene admit he was wrong. He didn't like TNG past Season 3 and much of Season 4. He did sign off on them despite it. He was dying by then and had passed by Season 5, as shown in Unification 1 and 2. Definitely would never allow DS9 to exist had he lived as it was the exact opposite of the humanity utopian society he envisioned. Rick Berman, Paramount and Majel Barrett-Roddenberry approving it and reprising her roles as Lwaxana Troi and the Computer definitely made the right call creating DS9 and her approving. Even though Gene was gone, she took over his Paramount and Rick Berman took over. While his issues with writing and fans are well-known and documented, most, myself included will take him back over J.J. Abrams any day of the week given a choice. Rod Roddenberry, is definitely not his parents but in time as he gets more involved with their legacy they created. He needs to use the weight he has that his parents left behind and tell CBS and Paramount save the cherry picking I've done New Trek has issues. While his family does not have legal rights he has significant influence abd if he wanted to he can get backers and for the first time in history, Star Trek would change owners. Yes, Desilu was the antecedent form of modern Paramount but it really hasn't changed hands in near all its existence. Names have changed, various executive producers have had the helm pun intended, but the same basic organization has always owned it.
I thought at the time that this TNG episode was a standout in an otherwise pretty poor inaugural season. It’s by no means outstanding Trek, but it is well-produced, engaging, witty, and fun - far superior, in fact, to the similarly-themed (and vastly overrated) “The Big Goodbye.”
Kruge was a dishonorable pirate. He killed members of his own crew to further his goals. He should've known the risk his crew was taking, but he didn't care. And even if he did, Klingon see s wth in the line of duty as the highest honor. This underlines that his mission was not sanctioned by the Empire.
It wasn't sanctioned. The backstory for Kruge was that he was a known renegade, too politically connected to challenge and/or kill for his dishonorable conduct and acts, even if the challenger has perfectly legitimate reasons. Kirk likely did many on the High Council a favor by not only killing him but doing it in such a way that could not be questioned or avenged by his family. 1. By Klingon law, Kirk had every the Right of Vengeance when Kruge ordered his son David's death and thus Kirk had every right to challenge Kruge and won. His ship and all aboard it were spoils of the victor. Probably why the Klingons didn't say or do much over the loss of the Bird-of-Prey and explains why a Bat'leth was in his house in Generations. It was probably Kruge's and took it as part of said spoils of his victory. If Valkris, Kruge's mate wasn't already dead, Kirk would have every right to her too as Grilka on DS9 pointed out to Quark. One, even Klingons under Discommendation has the Right of Vengeance(ie: Worf in regards to K'Ehleyr against Duras and had Sisko not gotten to him first, probably Gul Dukat too in response to Jadzia's death. ) Two, neither the avenger or avengee need be Klingon. A member of a Klingon House or in service to the Empire in any way is more than enough. 2: Kruge fell to a superior opponent in Honorable Single Combat. That is far from a dishonorable death and Kruge's family had no recourse on those grounds
I just watched the binar episode again two days ago. It had a creepy feel to it I forgot about where Riker and picard are about to spit roast a holographic minuet. In my head I'm imagining Riker worrying about crossing swords while CIA director bullock first agrees but then goes on to tell a story about the time he spent with 17 Greek soldiers and an russian prostitute in a Turkish prison camp. Well, that's how I'd picture it anyway lol
Glad you enjoyed it! Your mention of stock footage has inspired an idea for a possible future video; "The 10 Best Uses of Stock Footage in Star Trek." I even found a great list to draw from: www.trekbbs.com/threads/best-worse-uses-of-stock-footage.293911/ Thanks for posting!
@@MetaTrek So was holo Leah Brahms, but she came up wit hthe idea of controlling the ship to get out of the the trap they were in. And Riker's lady friend was also a computer program. Thus, she'd be able to do it.
What's even more obvious when comparing both enterprises entering space dock. The D doesn't look much different in size but is way bigger than the original. enterprise.
I always thought the Starbase Commander looked too similar to Picard, and that it was an odd choice, but it might have something to do with the underlying theme of the episode, which has to do with binary pairs. The actor starred in a couple TOS episodes too btw.
You don’t need imagination to know what happened with Savvik and Spock. They had sex, end of story. She was saving his life. And yeah he was a young teenager. Some social constructs were not relevant and fortunately, it was a time when they didn’t have to write everything around a set of rules of the current cultural trends. A sexually mature Vulcan male is just that, and treated in the story on purely a biological level, without any artificial inhibitions.
Kind of have to during Pon Farr. Barring ritual combat as the other choice, if either is not done within eight days, the Vulcan going through Pon Farr will die.
Star trek was good the movie were excellent are they going to make more the 3 other stars trek movies they made excellent to I love stars trek movie make more
It is refreshing too how in original Trek, they could make very subtle references and pay actual homage in a clever way that you may not even notice the first time an episode or film is seen. Recent Trek is certainly not subtle at all with the constant “Easter Eggs” that appear every ten seconds.
Couldn't agree more. Subtlety has gone out the window, and it's been flapping in the wind for some time now.
11001001 is one of the better Season 1 episodes of TNG. Probably my personal favorite of the season.
Absolutely one of the better of the season! 👍🖖
The design of the 'D' was NEVER intended to fit inside Spacedock. Andrew Probert, who designed the ship for TNG, intended it to dock outside under the rim, facing outwards. That's what some of the details on the 'D's spine are, connections. But budget, as usual, gets in the way and it was cheaper to reuse the ST:3 shot with the 'D' replacing the original.
This was starbase 74 orbiting Tarsis 3 not space dock orbiting earth so could have been built bigger to accommodate larger ships
So many interesting docking connections and "hardpoints" incorporated into the ship's design, yet the only ones that never went to waste on-screen were the "catwalk" connections that docked with the side of the inter-hull.
On the upside, at least they gave us that visual clue that turbolift cars were passing through the catwalk between ship and starbase...
Before the use of the Spacedock model and what you describe, they were hoping to make a completely brand new design. The earlier sketches he did for Starbase 74 show something much smaller, with docking arms projecting outwards. The E-D would then dock with her nacelles snug inside the armatures and then a docking tunnel would connect either to the top or to the place as seen in the episode. Conceptually it looked a lot like the Vanguard station design but without the K-7-like large habitat disc.
This is once where I'm actually glad they did this. the Spacedock design (basically just a giant mushroom in space) looks like something build by a very advanced civilization. It's not this rickety thing that looks like it was assembled in space. Rather, it looks like a huge construct designed to be a habitat. Something like an arcology, but in space. Spacedock (and all Federation starbases based on this design) give the Federation this feel that it's very advanced.
@@apreviousseagle836 But still, it doesn’t matter how advanced it looks or how cool it is, if it can’t fit a ship in it, especially the Flagship of Starfleet, then it’s not so useful, if you’re gonna have a flagship and need it to be repaired, and you know it will need to be repaired, you gotta me the entrance of the space dock larger. Heck, Star Trek Online rectified this on ESD and other stations by having lots of Drydocks around the Space Dock, for many ships and sizes.
you've won yourself a new subscriber! The editing of the destruct sequence was fantastic!
Awesome, thank you, and welcome aboard!
@@MetaTrek you're welcome and thank you too
It would have been so easy for the Search For Spock writers to insert a new self-destruct code sequence yet they took the time to go back and obtaine the exact code sequence that was used in the TOS episode ensuring continuity.
I, for one appreciate the effort to ensure continuity.
Another great video-I really appreciate your channel and all the work you put into it. I never noticed that the same song was played in the two different bars. As a side note I love the scene in the search for Spock when McCoy is in the bar, and he asks the alien “how can you get a permit to do a damn illegal thing?” Classic McCoy. And although I realize it’s not exactly a fan favorite, but I have also always loved “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield.” I think the dialogue is pretty snappy and it makes a great point about what hatred is capable of doing. It was also directed very well and had several unique angles that are not seeing another episodes. The self-destruct scene is a great example of how the directing builds tension. So I appreciated your showing the footage from that episode too. Keep up the great work!
Thank you! It's comments like this that really makes what I'm doing feel worth it. One of the fun camera tricks they did in "LTBYLB" was the in-and-out shots of the red alert light--a definite homage to the Batman series, as the Riddler starred in that episode. For being so derided, the third season really added a lot to Star Trek lore. The franchise would have been greatly diminished had the third season as we know it not happened.
Yes, on average, I liked the 3rd season (over all) better than the 2nd (acknowledging that the 2nd season had better individual episodes-yes “Doomsday Machine” I’m looking at you). From season 3, All Our Yesterdays,” Is There in Truth no Beauty,” “Battlefield,” “The Tholian Web,” “Spectre of the Gun” are all episodes I thoroughly enjoyed despite the budget being much lower. It would have been interesting to see how a fourth season would have panned out.
Remember in Star Trek 3:The Search for Spock Saavik revealed to David that Spock was going through the Pon'Farr the Vulcan mating ritual where a Vulcan goes through every 7 years of they're Adult lives where a strong instinct forces them to return to Vulcan to find a mate otherwise they'll die as Spock mentioned in an episode where it is like the salmon on Earth where they return to the rivers where they were born so in a lot of ways Saavik was helping Spock with what he was going through.
And with how quickly he was developing due to the Genesis effect, it's entirely possible that Saavik "waiting a couple of hours" for Spock to become an adult could have killed him.
But that also leads me to wonder: how many times would this "reborn", hyper-developing Spock have gone through Pon'Farr on his way back to being the decades-old Vulcan who was eventually rescued? And how many times did Saavik have to... help him? 😏
The episode you're referring to is Amok Time
Also, according to the novelisation of "The Voyage Home", Saavik did get pregnant from Spock.
Very impressive connections, far more than I'd realised! Love that super-cut at the end 😁
Glad you mentioned the "super-cut," I just couldn't resist! As always, thanks for posting!
The least interesting and Best connections were the dialogue during docking. The same procedures should be used for spacedock and therefore the same commands and responses should be used. This shows good initial writing and good adherence to continuity. I am sure the commands and responses would sound familiar to any person working on a ship.
Like "Star Trek: The Motion Picture," "The Search for Spock" is severely underrated. Dozens of elements from STIII are reused in TNG. That's one of the great things about Trek.
I thought even number movies were supposed to be better?
@@leoperidot482 That's only according to some. ST: The Motion Picture may not be good Trek, but it's excellent Science Fiction. And ST: III may have had a somewhat weak story, but it set precedents for all of ST to follow: The Klingon dagger, the Klingon Bird of Prey, Proto matter, The Klingon Targ, and so on. Lots of great things were established in ST:III.
@@leoperidot482 BS.
@@ajmittendorf ST II: TWOK, has always been most popular of the series. It has an old enemy, space battle, loss of a beloved character, new popular character, old characters feeling the passage of time, new captain, long lost son.
ST IV: TVH, has another reoccurring theme; time travel to the past. It brought whale preservation to the forefront.
ST VI: TUC, brought back space battles. I think this was the first time where members of Starfleet were exposed as being corrupt. Starfleet just went downhill after that. However good prevailed in the end.
ST VIII: FC, everyone loves Starfleet's mortal enemy, the Borg, and an epic space battle. Plus this turned out to be an origin story. And another time travel to the past theme.
ST X: N, has epic space battle, loss of a beloved character, old characters moving on.
I really love ST:TMP, it is a unique experience, and the only live action Trek we ever got from the '70's, and it shows! Severely underrated indeed. I like your list of things TNG inherited from TSFS, you listed several things I was going to, let me just add a couple things to it: the general look of the TNG Klingons was established in this movie, as was the Klingon language. The only major aspect to the Klingons in TSFS that was left out of TNG was their two-dimensional villain vibe. BTW, it's good to hear from you again!
Love the comparison shots of the Enterprise entering Space Dock. I always wondered how they accomplished it. 🖖
You and me both! The Enterprise-D is about 5 times larger isn't it?
@@MetaTrek It totally is! How did they ever get the 1701-D through the doors!?!?! Oh...the edit duh.
@@ustrekkie92 *Earth Space Dock* was revealed to have been designed and constructed using *Expendium,* a technological leap forward for metallurgy and material technology, said to have been secretly obtained by reverse-engineering alien technology (rumor has it a crashed *Borg* vessel was 'researched').
It was incorporated into the *ESD's* outer shell spaceframe in such a way as to allow expansion of the outer shell when need arrives without effecting any of the internal bulkheads and enclosed areas contained inside the spaceframe or the air seals between bulkheads critical for life support. All passageways, ports and space hanger doors grow or shrink accordingly without losing their relative dimensions and dimensional ratios.
This design was heavily affected by a forward-looking philosophy anticipating future larger designs of starships and the need to serve them.
_Disclaimer: I seem to have too much free time on my hands._
apparently several screenwriters and special effects technicians were unaware of this size difference (which I always thought was exaggerated and unnecessary for the galaxy class); this naivety led to other big nonsense, and perhaps the biggest one is the "bird of prey paradox" that in TSOS and TVH was smaller than the constitution, and in TNG it became immense. Well, but in made-for-TV movies these "small details" are still forgivable, considering the rush of production and budget limit. however jjprise is a joke.
@@ustrekkie92 its not space dock orbiting earth, its starbase 74 which orbits Tarsis 3
The 'Jazzy' Star Wars 'Creature Cantina' like music played in the Stardock lounge from Star Trek III was composed by the late great James Horner. It's called 'Bar Source' and the music bleeds into a modernized depiction of 'Tangerine', not the old jazz tune your video suggests. In the 23rd century 'Big Band' era made a Big Bang come back. ;)
Otherwise, great video!
You know, in retrospect, those 1701 destruct codes weren't the most secure passwords. And they NEVER changed them after blurring them out loud on that TOS episode... ?
Admiral Picard activates the destruct sequence on the Sagan-class "Stargazer" using the same simple code: 0-0-0-destruct-0
LOL! I always assumed they were voice recognized, - the codes were more like "pin codes" - where you need to HAVE something (your ATM card or your voice) and KNOW something easy to remember that you know (pin code or the destruct code) - and requiring 3 officers was enough protection.
I noticed you used the DVD version of the TNG episode. How does the star base approach compare in the remastered TNG Blu-Rays that have the recomposited effects? Did they use the same alt takes that were used originally?
The use of the Search for Spock footage to represent Starbase 74 was not because they were trying to create a homage to the scene per se, but because the budget didn't allow for them to build a new model and then film such extensive new special effects for it that they originally wanted. You can find early concept sketches for this done by Andrew Probert online.
I'm interested in seeing those concept sketches, do you know where I can find them?
@@MetaTrek Do you have your comments set to block hotlinks? I tried posting one to here and it disappeared.
@@nowhereman1046 comments with hotlinks automatically get put on hold for review, but I don't see anything from you pending. Please try posting again, I really do want to see those sketches!
@@MetaTrek I tried to help you guys by sending a link to a website with the sketches, but apparently whatever it is that's blocking links for him is jinxing me as well.
@@mikedicenso2778 thanks for trying! It's something youtube is doing. Seeing your comment, I went ahead and googled the sketches. I'm pretty sure I found them, but if you want to try sharing the link again, maybe separate the .com from the rest so it's not a hotlink, and I can put it back together in the address bar.
You're my new favorite channel! Good work on this!
Thank you, glad you're enjoying my work!
Great comparison video, lots of information for fans of the the show, presents a balanced look at the technical and story telling side to it. My only comment would be to the reuse of the Space Dock One model from TSFS. ILM, who shot the elements for VFX in the 70s, 80s and 90s used Vista Vision cameras. These cameras took normal 35 mm film and shot them on the side, 90 degrees from normal, giving more than double the surface area to work with (4 perf vs. 8 perf). The aspect ratio of these cameras were 1.5:1 in the raw negative vs. 2.35 :1 for theatrical release. It looks like to me, this is the same SD1 element, same planet backdrop (though not supposed to be earth in 11001001) but these elements were re-composited with the new shots of the Ent-D 2' model in the wide shot on the approach to the Starbase, then the 6' Ent-D model for the close-up shot through the open doors. TNG was posted on video tape back in the 80s & 90s, but shot on film which is why they were able to do such an amazing HD restoration by going back to all of the film elements, even the ones from the TOS-films. Coolest reuse of an element is the explosion of V'ger at the end of TMP, reused as Gomtuu's attack on the Romulan Warbird in the episode Tin Man.
Wow, thanks for that awesome explanation of how they filmed the space dock effects! I don't have the technical knowledge to understand how they were able to get so much more of the station in the TNG shot, as well as more of the moon, than they did in the widescreen version in STIII. I knew they had to have gone back to the original footage, but beyond that I was at a loss. Also totally awesome tidbit about Tin Man's reuse of TMP effects. Never realized it, although I always thought it looked beautiful, and I think the effects at the end of TMP are some of the most beautiful sfx shots ever.
It makes a lot of thematic sense to reuse the TMP effects in “Tin Man”too since the plot/theme of the two stories are so similar.
I'll have to look into the TMP/"Tin Man" similarities, maybe another video in the making . . .
@7:30 the dividual. That, 'Jim help me... Help me Jim', was a nod to the TOS episode 'The savage Curtain'. SPAAAAHCK, Help me SPAAAHCK! Help me Kirk! Kiiiiiiiirk! Help me! 😅🤣
yep, you're right.
Great video, I never understood how the space doors never changed size even though the Enterprise D is much larger than the old Enterprise
Good point! Thanks for watching and commenting.
The console seen at 3:02 and 10:58 is the one used in Engineering (TNG), slightly redressed. It was also used in one of the movies.
Why let a good console go to waste?
An excellent comparison indeed.
I have to admit; it was also interesting to watch a Star Trek "documentary experience" like this while listening to Jeremy Soule, so thank you for that as well. 🤟
Very cool, he's a great composer!
@@MetaTrek Indeed. I especially enjoy his soundtrack for the first "Knights of the Old Republic".
His work on Guild Wars - my favorite game ever and still playing - is unparalleled.
How about comparing the episodes where Kirk and Picard get possessed. Another episode where the both crews get infected with some kind of bacteria that makes them feel inhibited. Another episode where both captains justify breaking the Prime Directive. Another episodes where show captains go after their own renegade captains; Kirk goes after Ron Tracy, Picard goes after Ben Maxwell, Janeway goes after Rudy Ransom.
You're giving away my ideas!
Good video. Always interesting to hear in another video background music you've used too.
I'm glad you liked the video. My wife will be creating more of the music in the future.
The great clip of the Enterprise leaving Spacedock sparked a thought, so at the risk of sounding like Columbo (“one more thing…”) here goes: It is often stated that a starship must be at a decent distance from the gravity well of a sun or at least a planet before it can engage warp drive. The original series sometimes seems unclear on this, but in the motion picture, even though Kirk was in a hurry, they got well past the orbit of Jupiter before moving to warp speed. But Star Trek III is perhaps the clearest refutation of this concept since they engage the warp drive while they seem to still be in a high Earth orbit. Interesting. I don’t know if there’s ever been an on-screen discussion of the concept or not. Just a thought.
Just going to presume that it’s not recommended, but can be executed under the right conditions. Just like a cold start of warp engines…dangerous but doable. With advancing tech it’s probably not as dire as it once was…like leaving space dock at impulse instead of thrusters…just saying
An additional issue with going to warp inside the solar system is that there would be a much greater chance of hitting something, as the system would have to be filled with ships, space stations, an any number of other things you wouldn't want to hit at any speed, let alone warp speed! Also, your thought about the Enterprise leaving Spacedock sparked another thought, going to warp too close to a planet could tear the atmosphere away from the planet (that was part of the plot of one of the novels), yet Kirk goes to warp close to the earth in STIII and well within the atmosphere in STIV!
It’s a rule that sounds great and sophisticated when it comes to the background world-building, but then writers simply disregard it, or are never aware of it to begin with, when the story calls for it. They simply don’t care.
Your picking at it , they just made it to entertain us.
@@williamatkinson4207 picking at it…not at all. Real Trek entertained…even with its flaws. New trek is like watching some of that swill on the CW….
2:00 using alternate takes for reuse is actually a smart and practical approach.
Nice compilation. Did your homework!
Thank you. Why let a good take go to waste? haha
I never noticed all these similarities. Great video.
Thanks for watching!
How did I never know that this episode was an homage to that film?? I realize obviously a lot of it was due to low budget, but they managed to turn it into a rather positive spin. I’ve seen the entire TNG series a hundred times, I watched it when it first aired… I just never knew there was this connection!
All of classic Star Trek is much more interconnected that it might seem. Sometimes the connections are a part of the in-universe narrative, but much more often they're not, and I think the creators of the show hoped no one would notice. I currently have two other connections videos to watch if you haven't seen them already.
It wasn’t an homage - it just ended up having the effect of looking like an homage. TNG’s effects creators reused the footage from STIII and superimposed the Ent-D onto it, it was done purely for budget-saving reasons.
There are lots of Trek RUclipsrs, many of whom are quite good. You remain the best in my humble but correct estimation.
Wow, thank you so much for your incredibly kind words! I’m truly honored that you think so highly of my work, especially with so many great Trek RUclipsrs out there. I really appreciate it, and I’ll keep striving to live up to your praise! LLAP!
The only thing that makes sense about the scene is maybe by the time of tng there were numerous space docks scattered all over the quadrant that could fit a galaxy class in them
You missed a big one: both plots revolve around restoring a massive off-site data backup as the main plot driver -- the Binar homeworld's computer data from the Enterprise's computer, and Spock's katra from McCoy's brain!
lol - wow thats brilliant - I must admit - I had no idea these two stories were connected at all, so this entire vid was entertaining - but this comment is really next level. - what I find interesting, some of these plot devices, seem incredibly smart to me, but maybe there are style-guides for writers - and its a pick-and-mix job. - I would love to get formal training in writing.
Great point! I'm sure there are more similarities still to be discovered. As with the other comparison videos, when viewers find enough similarities that I missed, I'll due another video, with proper credits given. So if you notice more, be sure to post them!
Not sure such a guide exists, maybe it's just waiting for someone to write it . . .
@@MetaTrek - Its waiting for you :) - Put me down for a copy :) - I subbed to your channel - watched a few more vids - not sure how you make these connections, must be quite a bit of work involved.
Thanks for subscribing! No, no, that book's all yours for the writing! Put ME down for a copy please . . . As far as the connections, it starts with a few similarities that I've noticed over the years, but then a whole bunch more always become apparent once I start working on the video.
5:13 I am just now noticing that Scotty says "Commander Montgomery Scott, Chief Engineering Officer". But at this point, Scotty is the 'Captain of Engineering' on the Excelsior. You can see he wears the rank of Captain on his jacket. I'm not saying this is necessarily a mistake as the Enterprises was to be decommissioned and the computers probably were not updated.
That's a great catch. I think you're right about the Enterprise computer not being updated. As you point out, Scotty also called himself "Chief Engineering Officer," which was his former position on the Enterprise.
The holographic video game with the planes was neat looking.
I always thought so too!
I remember how sad I felt watching the self-destruct of the Enterprise the first time. 😢
For many it was harder than watching Spock die.
@@MetaTrek Thought it was the end of Trek. Happily, I was wrong. That ship got me through some rough times as a kid, just like the crew 😉
@@Romne Indeed, the Enterprise was always a comforting place to go to escape from the troubles of childhood.
This is a great breakdown. Well done good sir! Love it when great Star Trek content pops up. Subscribed:)
I've always been a big fan of Star Trek 3, even if it ruins the supposedly even number Trek is the only good movies argument.
Welcome aboard! For me it's the first four movies that were good, and the last two not so much, even though everyone seems to love ST:VI. Don't get me wrong, I still watch them, but not as often as the others.
Damn you caught stuff no one has ever noticed.
The finding reverse image by the registry number requires a level of examation I rarely see; BEYOND IMPRESSIVE
Thanks! I've made it my job to uncover all kinds of hidden, little details. There's more to _Star_ _Trek_ than most people will ever know!
@@MetaTrek dude that attitude is one only a true trekkie can have.
I am finding your takes on the Q very interesting.
I get the logic that you say of you know they’re supposed to be diplomats, but they kind of treat him like shit might take is is by the point that they’re treating him like shit they’ve already decided that they can’t treat him like they would other world diplomats but I understand your take.
I also think that off screen somewhere Picard and Riker very likely discussed how they would handle when he shows up again, and they probably decided to show a United strong front to try to push him away like you do the bullies. Any thoughts
I could see Picard and Riker doing that, and it makes perfect sense. They had to have known on some level that Q wasn't the big bad that they pretend that he is, because he could have easily ended their existence with the snap of his fingers. So despite Picard's professed lack of trust in Q, he trusted him enough to treat him "like shit" knowing full well what the cost could be.
@@MetaTrek love that explanation. Also after a tried to put a rift between Picard and Riker when he tried to turn Riker into a q likely lead to discussions after on how to handle when he shows up again
The Enterprise "D" model is way bigger than the Enterprise refit or "A" model. There's no way the D would fit through those dock doors. lol
The only issue is the D is much larger than the A and had to be scaled down somewhat to fit through the doors.
Either that, or the Star Base in 11001001 is much, much larger the Space Dock in STIII.
@@MetaTrek That is a good point, in a retconny sort of way.
@@MetaTrek If so, that star base would have some HUGE windows
They didn't seem to care about the size difference between the two Enterprises!
For Number 9... I think a sock would also work as well as a Do Not Disturb sign...
2:50 Is it me or is the Enterprise ramming the Excelsior?
I never even noticed the Excelsior was in the shot until editing this video! Pretty cool to see it there.
Love your going over things with great pendantry. 😁😎❤️
It could be that the star that went nova, had not be properly studied by the Binares.
I'm a detail oriented person, I try not to be too pedantic!
There was no reason for the programming of Minuet to disappear when the Bynars left. That was just convenience to not have to deal with the fact that Riker would be in love with a holographic character for the rest of the season.
By the time of Voyager, it seems the writers were more open to the idea, they even had the Doctor be romantically involved with a human woman in the finale.
You're absolutely right. It doesn't make any sense, but they couldn't have Riker spending all his time in the holodeck hoping no one walks in on him.
@@MetaTrek So I think due to the fact they needed to make self contained episodes, they essentially had to reset what happened in every single one (with minor exceptions). It would have been interesting to have some minor ongoing arcs in the series.
@@apreviousseagle836 we probably would have gotten more continuity between episodes had it not been for Rick Berman. It's my understanding that he (and he alone) refused to allow it. That, of course, started to change after Babylon 5 premiered, and DS9 got the benefit of that.
Just found your channel. Love it; binge watching time
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for commenting, and subscribing!
What i noticed was how far along the Binar are to becoming like the Borg.
Great with 2. Even better with a whole collective!
No, Saavik couldn't wait, as young Spock was in the throes of Pon Farr and as such, in excruciating pain.
Yup. Did what was necessary, and without any hesitation. Good thing they were able to see it purely in a biological context. It would never be in a big studio film plot today.
And eventually death if she did not do him. Something Saavik well knew. As a reminder, if Pon Farr's chemical imbalance is not resolved in on or about eight days either via the ritual combat or sexually, the Vulcan going through it will die. As fast as Genesis was destroying itself, she had hours at best.
Point of dispute - Kirk saying "Se la vi" does not equivocate to him knowing French any more than my use of "que pasa" means I speak Spanish.
Kirk saying, "C'est la vie" was him speaking French, just as I stated. Thanks for commenting.
My favorite comparison is the self destruct commands codes between Kirk, Spock, Scotty and Chekov. Only difference: countdowns. 30 seconds in the episode Let That Be Your Last Battlefield and 1 minute in the movie Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock.
Glad you enjoyed it! I had a great time editing the destruct countdowns together.
Well, I'll be a Tribble! I never would've even thought to look at the Original Series for the self destruction code to be the same.
Ah who am I kidding? I wouldn't have guessed any of this! My attention span was too focused on the movie or the show for what was happening right then.
I can only say thank you for posting this. It was really cool. Let's not forget to say that to the writers for trying to keep it all straight, even if warp speed 🌈 got used near the planet 🌎.
LLAP
✌
It's okay if you didn't notice these connections, it's my job to point them out! Despite the fact that warping out of orbit would be a very bad idea, it's still one of my favorite moments in all of Trek. Kirk and crew were willing to risk it all to help their friends. Thanks for posting!
I know I'll get a lot of hate, but the Enterprise, and especially the Enterprise-A, were far, far more elegantly beautiful ships than the ruptured duck Enterprise-D. The E regained much of that beauty
No hate here at all, as I entirely agree. (Of course, I’m old.)
It's well known that Roddenberry hated the movies. So it's not so much an homage but I think a case of swiping better visuals to prop up his new show. Star Trek had grown so big, and is so big, it can't be run by just one man anymore. With the failure of the first film it was clear Gene had no more ideas to give to Star Trek. He had to recycle them from the Classic Series or take them from the feature films.
Sorry, but just saying he “hated the movies” is reductive nonsense. He had many criticisms of THE WRATH OF KHAN, and while some of them can be ascribed to jealousy others were actually spot-on. But he had some positive things to say about THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK, and much enjoyed THE VOYAGE HOME, as evidenced by Majel Barrett’s participation. Most would agree that his intense dislike of the premise for THE FINAL FRONTIER turned out to be justified by the finished product. He was indeed not happy with THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, and sadly died shortly after screening it.
The only Klingon who could speak english was Kruge. His men had no idea that the computer was counting down, they thought it was giving orders.
Also, before TNG, it was dangerous to beam between moving ships, without using the transporters.
Because of that, the Klingons locked on and entered through the enterprise's transporter room, hence kruge's order to "get out there" was correct.
Exactly. Why would Klingons be talking to each other in English on their own ship? That was just translated for the benefit of the viewers.
However I will say that Maltz could also speak English.
@@taopilot2669 Oh, I completely forgot about Maltz. Yes, the official Klingon dictionary cites him as a primary source.
Funny Note: Marc Okrand told the story at the QepHom in 2019 that when they went back to the 24th century, they forgot that he was still in the Bird of Prey's brig and Maltz could escape to San Francisco, where he lived in Okrand's basement and dictated the dictionary to him....
5:40 And the 000 Destruct O code is repeated by Picard in S2E1 of the Picard series when he self destructs the Stargazer.
I never saw the connection or homage
I just liked the creativity in that binary race and how they interact with computers
Well. Look at it this way. From Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan to Star Trek - First Contact. And all seven seasons of The Next Generation. Paramount Pictures hired George Lucas's special effects company Industrial Light and Magic for the above projects for the special effects.
How about a comparison of Binars and Borg?
You never know!
I'm glad I'm not the only person who noticed the similarities!!!!!
I figured there would be those out there who noticed the similarities too, welcome aboard!
I'm sure Spock 'grew up' more than enough in the few hours he was with Savik.....
I'm sure he did, *wink, wink*!
the lighting and coloring are just because of different film quality, the slightly different position in relation to the planet could because they didn't use the finished negative but recomposited the different elements of the matte and the model
Perhaps. But I still stand by what I said.
And the final code for countdown was used by Picard on the Stargazer in Picard S2:E1 "Star Gazer".
Code zero-zero-zero-destruct-zero.
Wow this video happened up onto my feed & it’s exactly what I’m looking for.
I only consider TNG/DS9/VOY to be canon (not including TNG films) but if videos in this format were created within my restrictive personal window of acceptable content then I would be enthralled.
Although my main focus is TOS, I will be delving into TNG as well. I can see there will be opportunities to speak about DS9 and Voyager too, but it will probably be a rarity. Thank you for posting and I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
the films are canon. Sisko directly mentioned and gave Worf condolences over the destruction of the Enterprise-D. Chief O'Brien does too in DS9's "Way of the Warrior" not to mention one of the main reasons why Worf was there, available and eventually permanently assigned to DS9 in the first place. The Borg incursion of First Contact and the Dominion War and the Enterprise-E, while a distance from the main fighting, her share of action was mentioned several times in Insurrection as well as Worf's main position on DS9 by Picard's joking "reprimand" of his being late. Nemesis, Janeway making an appearance needs no further explanation.
While fans not considering Discovery or much of Picard canon is one thing(Lower Decks, bring back the Titan, Riker and Troi, marriage still strong and the long overdue of the TMP/TNG theme.
Prodigy with Janeway'sreturn looks promising, Tuvok coming back with Janeway would have been even better especially with Spock's, Scotty's and Odo's return so far despite Leonard Nimoy, James Doohan and Rene Auberjonois being no longer with us. I'm reserving judgment on Strange New Worlds. Not been on or completed a season to judge. Most Trek series didn't start to get good until their respective third seasons with the exception of TAS which is more a season 3.5 to TOS for all intents and purposes. The gap between the end of the first five year mission and the refit of the Enterprise till we see her again in TMP and the events thereof and another five-year mission before the red jacket uniform change and the events of the Wrath of Khan and beyond we all know and love.
On canon, the fact is, whether we agree or not if Paramount/CBS airs it, specifies which timeline it belongs, and a Roddenberry signs off on it, it's canon.
They can be overruled by Paramount though. It's well-known and documented Gene Roddenberry didn't like and wanted to decanonize all movies past TMP, the only one he directly produced.
Paramount, Harve Bennett, Nicholas Meyer and later Leonard Nimoy himself overruled him on The Wrath of Khan. The Box Office, fans, the successes and very existence of all that followed made Gene admit he was wrong.
He didn't like TNG past Season 3 and much of Season 4. He did sign off on them despite it. He was dying by then and had passed by Season 5, as shown in Unification 1 and 2. Definitely would never allow DS9 to exist had he lived as it was the exact opposite of the humanity utopian society he envisioned. Rick Berman, Paramount and Majel Barrett-Roddenberry approving it and reprising her roles as Lwaxana Troi and the Computer definitely made the right call creating DS9 and her approving. Even though Gene was gone, she took over his
Paramount and Rick Berman took over. While his issues with writing and fans are well-known and documented, most, myself included will take him back over J.J. Abrams any day of the week given a choice.
Rod Roddenberry, is definitely not his parents but in time as he gets more involved with their legacy they created. He needs to use the weight he has that his parents left behind and tell CBS and Paramount save the cherry picking I've done New Trek has issues. While his family does not have legal rights he has significant influence abd if he wanted to he can get backers and for the first time in history, Star Trek would change owners. Yes, Desilu was the antecedent form of modern Paramount but it really hasn't changed hands in near all its existence. Names have changed, various executive producers have had the helm pun intended, but the same basic organization has always owned it.
I thought at the time that this TNG episode was a standout in an otherwise pretty poor inaugural season. It’s by no means outstanding Trek, but it is well-produced, engaging, witty, and fun - far superior, in fact, to the similarly-themed (and vastly overrated) “The Big Goodbye.”
I enjoyed it more the more I dissected it.
Great video!
I am pleased that you relished it!
Good stuff. I haven't watched TNG in a while. That's just changed
Glad my video has inspired you to rewatch TNG. All classic trek is worth rewatching imo.
I might be wrong but I think that’s a different space dock because at no point did they say orbiting earth during the episode
In the episode it was Starbase 74 orbiting Tarsas III.
Cool video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
whats the music called please
"I Remember You"
Is the original space station door even big enough for the D's saucer section?
It would be way too small.
@@MetaTrek that's what I always thought... But never cared enough to find out. At some point, it's a movie right?
Was the episode intended as a homage or was this mere coincidence?
Well, homage is in quotation marks, but more than coincidence, yes.
I never made the connection. Well done.
Thank you! You might be interested in my other connection videos if you haven't seen them already.
Kruge was a dishonorable pirate. He killed members of his own crew to further his goals. He should've known the risk his crew was taking, but he didn't care. And even if he did, Klingon see s wth in the line of duty as the highest honor. This underlines that his mission was not sanctioned by the Empire.
You raise some great points about Kruge. Thank you for posting!
It wasn't sanctioned. The backstory for Kruge was that he was a known renegade, too politically connected to challenge and/or kill for his dishonorable conduct and acts, even if the challenger has perfectly legitimate reasons. Kirk likely did many on the High Council a favor by not only killing him but doing it in such a way that could not be questioned or avenged by his family.
1. By Klingon law, Kirk had every the Right of Vengeance when Kruge ordered his son David's death and thus Kirk had every right to challenge Kruge and won. His ship and all aboard it were spoils of the victor. Probably why the Klingons didn't say or do much over the loss of the Bird-of-Prey and explains why a Bat'leth was in his house in Generations. It was probably Kruge's and took it as part of said spoils of his victory. If Valkris, Kruge's mate wasn't already dead, Kirk would have every right to her too as Grilka on DS9 pointed out to Quark.
One, even Klingons under Discommendation has the Right of Vengeance(ie: Worf in regards to K'Ehleyr against Duras and had Sisko not gotten to him first, probably Gul Dukat too in response to Jadzia's death. )
Two, neither the avenger or avengee need be Klingon. A member of a Klingon House or in service to the Empire in any way is more than enough.
2: Kruge fell to a superior opponent in Honorable Single Combat. That is far from a dishonorable death and Kruge's family had no recourse on those grounds
I just watched the binar episode again two days ago. It had a creepy feel to it I forgot about where Riker and picard are about to spit roast a holographic minuet. In my head I'm imagining Riker worrying about crossing swords while CIA director bullock first agrees but then goes on to tell a story about the time he spent with 17 Greek soldiers and an russian prostitute in a Turkish prison camp. Well, that's how I'd picture it anyway lol
Then the credit card is invented then the cellphone is invented and after buying too much for your own good the trekky becomes what he just watched
It wasn’t an homage... they just wanted to reuse footage
Hence the quotation marks. Thanks for commenting.
Fun stuff… but that description of stock footage isn’t what stock footage is.
Glad you enjoyed it! Your mention of stock footage has inspired an idea for a possible future video; "The 10 Best Uses of Stock Footage in Star Trek." I even found a great list to draw from: www.trekbbs.com/threads/best-worse-uses-of-stock-footage.293911/ Thanks for posting!
@@MetaTrek I think every Trek movie from Khan to First Contact used stock footage from the previous movie.
9:10 Maybe the holodeck lady would have done the work as well?
Only one problem; she was confined to the holodeck.
@@MetaTrek So was holo Leah Brahms, but she came up wit hthe idea of controlling the ship to get out of the the trap they were in. And Riker's lady friend was also a computer program. Thus, she'd be able to do it.
@@TheCastellan Good points.
Both StarShip named Enterprise
Gee, you'd think that they'd dock a little less and edge a little more. 😂
i just now realized, in ben 10 ultimate alien, he used the same destruct code for the omnitrix.
Thanks for pointing that out! They must have a Trekkie on their writing staff.
Is it me or are those destruct codes the equivalent of my password being 'password'?
The security could be in the voice recognition factor, but yeah, the codes were pretty simple.
@@MetaTrek
That's why I use those codes on my luggage, so I don't forget
What's even more obvious when comparing both enterprises entering space dock. The D doesn't look much different in size but is way bigger than the original. enterprise.
They were hoping we wouldn't notice, but we did.
The Galaxy Class shouldn't have fit through those doors.
MY GOD BONES
WHAT HAVE I DONE ?
Number 10 can apply to alot of people
chuckles...
Does anyone know if discount Picard with a beard was his stunt double? What’s the deal?
I always thought the Starbase Commander looked too similar to Picard, and that it was an odd choice, but it might have something to do with the underlying theme of the episode, which has to do with binary pairs. The actor starred in a couple TOS episodes too btw.
Before I got into TNG I stumbled across this episode while channel surfing and initially thought that guy was supposed to be an evil Picard.
You don’t need imagination to know what happened with Savvik and Spock. They had sex, end of story. She was saving his life. And yeah he was a young teenager. Some social constructs were not relevant and fortunately, it was a time when they didn’t have to write everything around a set of rules of the current cultural trends. A sexually mature Vulcan male is just that, and treated in the story on purely a biological level, without any artificial inhibitions.
I wonder if Spock even remembered what happened once he got his Katra back.
Kind of have to during Pon Farr. Barring ritual combat as the other choice, if either is not done within eight days, the Vulcan going through Pon Farr will die.
There's no such thing as basic physics regarding supernovae.
What's up, Dock?
Don’t forget, Scotty also speaks Scots
You're rright, laddie.
I gave it a like but four budweisers and an ambien in . I really didn't get it/ Might make more sense in te morning tho
I await your update . . .
Star trek was good the movie were excellent are they going to make more the 3 other stars trek movies they made excellent to I love stars trek movie make more
Great video great Star Trek great show
I'm glad you fancied the video. I take great delight in my subject matter.
You should add RUclips membership
I plan on it. Good idea.
@@MetaTrek cool.
It was good hearing from you again, welcome back!
@@MetaTrek thanks. Yes just catching up 😆 I've been interviewing for jobs and also had jury duty recently. Winding down a bit now for a few days 😆
You Bynar bastards… you _deleted_ my _girlfriend!_
👍
New Trek…lame, lame, lame, lame!