Urea is a polymer (plastic), one of the main chemical components of which is Urea, which is an organic binder derived from cattle urine. Its plastic, by any other name. I have an LL16D and have switched out the nut with bone and the saddle with a Tusq compensated saddle. It made quite the difference. Great guitar.
Could not agree more. The tusq saddle and nut made mine sound like a Talylor. Too bright, but the Tusq pins made a huge difference in the harmonics and balance. Took out nut and saddle. Will give bone a try. Changed out the D'Addario strings with Elixer. Not going back. Sweet strings.
Every time I think about the Yamaha L Series guitars, the more I am convinced that they are some of the nicest guitars out there. I think this is a very fair review. ❤
Just in case there’s any confusion… this is what I found… Re Urea, what Yamaha actually do is use synthetic urea which is a combo of synthetic ammonia and carbon dioxide
I bought my FG160in 1974 as my first guitar. I have many others now, but I still play my Yamaha. Also loved my Yamaha motorcycles and loved visiting the showroom in NYC whenever I got up there. Yamaha is a great company and I'd trust them for anything they produce as being quality. Nice axes guys.
I have owned on of these rosewood models for 6 years . Plays as good today as when I bought it. I work in a guitar shop and couldn't find anything that touches this at this price range. Big sound with lots of clarity. I love it even for finger style playing because of its dynamic range and clarity. It is big though but I don't mind that. It gets played everyday in my teaching studio and is great on stage. I like the simplicity of the pickup which I put through an active DI when needed. .
I have the LLTA, which is this guitar I believe but it also has the transacoustic system. I also have upgraded the nut and the saddle to bone. Its an amazing guitar. I dont use the trasacoutic part much, but it is fun to use every once in a while. If I had to do it over again I would have just bought the LL16 like I had originally planned. I’ve owned it for 6 months and it seems to be getting better and better sounding as it ages. I really want the LL16M now too.
I think I may have bought that exact rosewood one, and I love it! The saddle was plastic, and loose, and so I replaced it with a bone saddle, and ebony bridge pins.
Thanks for this great review. After watching this and a few other videos about Yamaha LL series guitars, I pulled the plug and got one. I once owned a Yamaha L-20A from 1981. I loved it but wore it out and traded it off about 6 years ago. Yesterday, I finally replaced it with a new Yamaha LL-16D. The 16D reminds be a lot of the great tone that my old L-20A had. The new LL16D is amazing! Love the tone. More bass that I was expecting. The Binding Bling is perfect. Love that it came with a hard case. My only complaint is the cheap plastic saddle. That will be replaced very soon.
I have a 1986 Yamaha rose wood dreadnaught that I bought from a friend in 1987, traded back to him in 1989. reacquired this guitar in a trade about 2 years ago from the same friend. It sounds just like the one in this video! I use Tony Rice Monel medium gauge strings mainly playing rhythm for old time fiddle music.
I have a Yamaha 12 string like this,and i had it pleked and set up with tusq nut and saddle,and a lr baggs i beam pick up. Very good playability and resonant sound.
In what way does it 'blow away' many big name brands ? I'm interested to know what you mean, what is your definition of what makes one guitar 'blow away' another ?
@@DjNikGnashers maybe a bad choice of words, it certainly keeps up with many big brands, and usually surprises whoever plays it. I believe the L series is one of the best values out there.
@@guanobucks I still don't know what you mean by 'keeps up' or 'blows away'. OK here's my take, based on years of fingerstyle (I don't really strum, and different guitars respond better to strumming than others, and others respond better to finger picking, etc). I had a couple of Yamaha acoustics, they were ok, sort of average build quality, average sound, just very average. Now, my musical hero Bert Jansch played a Yamaha LL11 quite a lot, and it sounded pretty good, but he wore a thumb pick and had long nails, and really attacked the strings, very hard, it sounded like he was plucking them off the instrument at times, but that was his style. I have owned dozens of guitars, and Yamaha guitars (the ones I owned) reminded me of the Takamine I had, except the Takamine was brighter (which wasn't to my taste. I had Ovations, Fenders, Gibsons, Epiphones, Ekos, Tanglewoods, yada yada, but by far the best sounding instrument is my current Lowden 32se which I had made for me. That was quite expensive, and it should sound good for the money (which it does). The Yamaha's I owned, had slightly muddy bass, a pronounced mid range, and a fairly unexciting treble. They didn't have great sustain, didn't have any real overtones, and didn't really have great harmonics. They were ok, not 'bad' but just nothing special. The Tanglewoods I had, were cheaper in price, but sounded better to my ears.
Great perspective. I’d play much more closer to your friend as I mostly strum with a pick…currently working on my Travis picking. I currently have a Martin, a Larrivee, and a few Yamahas. The other Yamahas are lower quality than the LS16. I usually play without amplification, so I like volume, and I’m partial to the low end rosewood sound.
@@guanobucks I do like a Larrivee sir ! I don't usually play amplified either, even though the Lowden has a LR Baggs anthem pickup, and to be fair it sounds quite good through my fishman loudbox. I travis pick, but I prefer the warmer tone of flesh on string, so I keep my nails short. Bert Jansch was not somebody I knew, he was in the band 'Pentangle' a famous 70's folk outfit. Have a great Christmas, and enjoy your guitars !
Cool video. I own one of these. I see a lot of Yamaha faithful upset in the comments. It's a great guitar... Yamaha is not claiming this is a red label quality build. I did a full day shootout with this guitar and maybe 20 others within a similar price. I am very impressed. It's stable, sounds like a spruce/rosewood dreadnaught. Great guitar for flat picking.
I am a professional musician and a luthier. Yamaha makes the best guitars under $1000.00 even under $2000.00 . They make the best guitar you can buy in the sub $300.00 price range, the FS/FG 800 for $229.00
I've played one yesterday, it's a even better price ratio/satisfaction versus my Taylor 314ce. Absolutely worth it. 314ce came with a s**tty setup on the other hand the ll16 was perfectly fine straight out of the box. I'm not a yamaha fan but this model is one I've appreciated on the spot. Awesome product
I love my Engelmann top Yamaha LL16D. I opted for nut and saddle replacement by a local luthier to bone. Also swapped out for buffalo horn pins. It is even better. I then got the Englemann top hog LL16M. So far I have opted for keeping the urea nut and saddle. Buffalo horn pins too. Can't wait to pull off the 80/20s for DR Rare 12s. I then got the sitka top FG3 and put a bone saddle on that with horn pins. Yikes! Great guitar tones.
@@banjo1434 First the Engleman tops impart a different tone. You see a lot of online comparisons to high end Martins. I see both LLs as largely folk and country guitars as they don't have the distorted, muddy bass of a Martin, but articulated bass instead. The FG3 is clearly a dread whereas both 16 models sit between a dread and a jumbo. The FG is punchy and mid-strong with great bass (again not muddy). Reminds me of a sitka Guild D40. I know they are sometimes hard to find to play in person, but of you can it would be good to hear your impressions.
Thanks. I've played the 3 and 5 series red labels and loved them both equally. Haven't played the ll 16 s yet. Interesting that another poster here has both The 6 and 16 models and can't tell the difference.
I've got one too... the thing is nothing short of amazing. I traded an 89' strat for it, best trade of my life. My Taylor's are sitting in the spare room lonely since I got this guitar.
A non scalloped brace acoustic is always louder if everything is the exact same except the bracing. Scalloped bracing adds warmth with less volume and forward shifted scalloped bracing adds more low en. Why people think scalloped bracing acoustics are louder is beyond me when it’s a fact that’s not how it works. Non scalloped bracing creates a stiffer top in return more volume but less bottom end and more bright. Scalloped bracing adds warmth do to creating a less stiff braced top and adds more bottom end with less volume. Yamaha was smart with the ll series by doing non scalloped bracing to have more volume than to make that body shape to make up for more lows compared to other non Scalloped acoustics. The englemann spruce is a smart choice and makes sense to use that as the tops to help with warmth as well. Plus have the benefit of more brace strength very genius specs if you ask me
Not so much. Ive worked on thousands of acostick guitars from the begining. Removeing wood gives u MORE vibration. Therefore more vol. But hey good luck with that. Give it a try, u will c
@@danlawson3986 I know a local acoustic guitar builder who also explained that non scalloped is generally louder because it creates a higher pitch. Also my Yamaha ll16 is louder than both my d18 and guild d40. Explain that. I don’t care how many acoustics you worked on lol. There’s guitar builders on RUclips that explain the same thing and the mechanics behind it so why should I Iisten to you. It’s also funny my Yamaha ll16 vibrates way more in the body and neck than my Martin or guild which are both scalloped. I have a Martin custom d which is also non scalloped that is louder than my d18 or guild d40. Funny huh. It’s like tuning a snare drum the higher pitch you tune them the louder they become. Bracing works the same way in in acoustic guitar. Scalloping bracing from a non scalloped acoustic does not create more vibration it simply changes the pitch and bass response it comes down to more tension vs less tension have a great day
Sorry to upset you. Engleman form the cascades is my favorite spruce. Even thou we would cut the trees in canada even that sitka wasnt as good as engleman. Its just been my experance that thinner tops are louder. And ive seen a few. One tree we got over 5000 tops. All were very good. JCL Knows how to pic them. Also i got nothing to prove. Made my bones a long time ago working with JCL snd Ren. Didnt mean to touch a nerve.
@@danlawson3986 yeah I love englemann spruce for its response. I hear a lot of people say Engelmann spruce don’t have much headroom to dig in and I haven’t experienced that with any englemann acoustic I’ve played. Sounds like nonsense to me. And yes of course thinner tops will contribute to that as well. As well as how neck joints are fitted. So many variables involved including bridge plate design as well.
Recently bought a Yamaha fg820 left hander. Im a fairly new player, since my retirement. Like it a lot. Real step up from my Fender cd60s. Id like to see more lefty versions. There is one in the ll16s. Could be my next move up. Great channel.
I got a Yamaha LL16D and it's a incredible guitar and even got a greater sound than a Martin D28. You should do a review of the Yamaha LL26 vs Martin D41
I have a black Yamaha Ll16 DX. I play it much more than my Gibson Hummingbird? I just really like it ….Im a pro player and can afford to buy what I want ? But I really love my ll16 black DX.
Yamaha rocks! All my guitars are Yamahas, they are all Awesome. I bought a ll16 used it could hold its own against a standard D28. As a rule I don’t like acoustic guitars with electrics, the ll16 electrics are the least intrusive I’ve ever seen
Sustainable wood’s selling points are important to me. I find the Black LL-16 very pretty online, but have no actual hands on knowledge. Plastic pins allow for your first customization with new strings! Semper Fi
I have one,,its beautiful,,and for some strange reason it sounds better than the LL16 I have in natural finish,,,makes no sense to me but it truly sounds better
Thanks for reviewing this guitar. I am a long time Eastman fan but picked up the Yamaha LL16 about a year ago and really like this guitar. As you pointed out it is actually a bit wider in the lower bout and a bit deeper so it absolutely keeps up in a bluegrass/old time session. Heavy on the low end is what you want for that. It is nice and loud. It has a refined tone and the fit and finish is impeccable. Agree with the 5 star setup rating. This is where Yamaha beats out Eastman imo. You can see my review of the LL16 on my TurraFirma RUclips channel.
Shockingly good for the price... I have an LL-TA - it's a LL16, but with onboard effects. It's magic without effects, but mind blowing with the effects
My 1992 Yamaha FG450SA has the same manufacturing techniques of the headstock and neck binding. I never noticed an issue. My Eastman E40-OO has an unbound headstock so they avoid the intersection.
I agree totally about the scarf joints but I will say this I have an HD 35 Martin and I have a d45 Martin both which binding has just come off the guitar I also have an old fg-180 Yamaha from the 1970s I believe and The Binding has never come off of it so while it's easy to be disappointed with the yamaha's new binding placement at least I'm sure it will probably stay where it was originally placed and not fall off the guitar like my high dollar Martins
Funny you should mention that. It seems the bulk of acoustic players are very conservative and even insecure about the brand name on the headstock. That extends to wood choices as scarcity occurs from overcutting. So glad to know you are open-minded. I never went to med school, but it seems you hear great tone through your ears, not your eyes.
If you simply want the loudest guitar possible, while you are strumming your open chords with a thick plectrum, then Yamaha guitars are ok and will do the job, although not even close to being the loudest. If you want a real instrument, with the best tone, harmonics, balance, intonation, and overtones, then you wouldn't buy a Yamaha (or any other mass produced cheaper guitar).
@@stevenshockley4237 It's not a generalization. I have owned at least 25 guitars (all acoustic), ranging from Yahamas, Takamines, Fenders, Ovations, Tanglewoods, Stagg (cheap), Epiphone, EKO, and so many more. I know from experience. My Lowden was hand made to my own specifications, and it is absolutely levels above anything else I have ever owned. So it does make a difference, to have a hand made instrument, made from top grade tonewoods, with a superior bracing and 5 piece neck.
tried to buy one from ya'll but never got response back...wanted one in black...waited and waited but never heard back, so i ordered one from shop in okc...should arrive soon...wanted to buy from ya'll because you are serious players, because i'm trying to get better at playing...wanted a bridge and nut upgrade and was told you couldn't handle those upgrades, which i found hard to believe...if i have this wrong contact me and let me know...the person i was dealing with was name tyler, thanks...love your content and would still like to be a customer.
@@AcousticShoppe I bought a LS6 recently but sent back as action around 3.5mm. no room to reduce without shaving bridge. Interested to see what LS16 holds. Could you mention action height and strings on your reviews? Thanks
@@tadge74 We always try to speak on the playability for sure. I can say that on our website we have pictures of the action measurements on all guitars if you're ever looking for a specific instrument. I don't believe we have an LS6 in stock at the moment but when we do they will be on the website with the action measurements if you want to compare. Although, I can say, so far we haven't seen dramatic playability issues with Yamaha's, sorry to hear about your situation.
No other brand makes better acoustic guitars than Yamaha for a given price point, period. There is no ifs and buts about it if you are judging on the instrument alone and not the brand name or where it comes from. Given the fact, it is up to you whether you wanna keep your money to yourself or hand it out to Martin, Taylor or any other overvalued brand.
I agree. These and even their inexpensive ones like the FG/FS 800 series are unbelievable for the money. They do actually make some really expensive models too, made in Hamamatsu, but I’ve never played one. I’d imagine they’re out of sight.
You gave a great critique on these guitars. There is a certain type of player who is devoted to all things Yamaha. People know what they like and these guitars fill that certain niche.
Excellent review and discussion of these guitars. You did so good a job that they are apparently sold out, according to your website, they are not currently in stock. I'm trying decide between the M and the R. Hopefully, you can get more soon.
The undeniable truth: One would be extremely hard pressed to find other solid rosewood and mahogany dreadnaughts that sound as good or better than the Yamaha LL16s at ANY price. I own both of the versions of the guitars in this review. They're both slightly different sounding than the other, but the sound and playability from both is premium. Thank you guys for this objective review. I can tell you agree. Order either or both from The Acoustic Shoppe. You cannot go wrong with either.
I had the rosewood. I ended up returning it. Not because it wasn’t perfect in every way. Because it wasn’t the sound I go for. The build was amazing , the pitch perfect , I just prefer a more muddy tone and Yamaha isn’t that.
Great guitars, i have played them over the years. Allways impressed by everything u get from them. However, for me, lifes too short to play anything but what your heart wants. My acoustics are Larriver D-03 ( i made that one) Martin D-28 , Gibson Humming bird and JCL 000-60
Been through many different brands for acoustics over the years and Yamahas are by far the most consistent. They're also my favorite. You really get more than what you pay for. I have 3 in my collection now and am always looking for more.
I apologize if you mentioned this and I missed it but what is the fret material? I know Yamaha uses stainless on their Revstars and I love those. Cheers
I believe these are basically the same as the LL-TA which is one of my favorite guitars of all time. With a little love it’s a perfect guitar. The trans acoustic technology is a game changer. I love the bag. I was bummed it didn’t have a hardshell case, but then fell in love with that bag. Best nonhardshell case in my opinion. I don’t recommend this model only cause the LL-TA offers more for similar price. Both are a huge powerful guitar with its own sound. I’ll bring one by for you to check out if you haven’t played an LL-TA yet
@@AcousticShoppe even without transacoustic on the guitar is phenomenal. I did have to take the battery compartment out out and hot glue/flex seal some wires down so they didn’t rattle against the battery compartment at certain frequencies. But after that it became the guitar i reach for half the time I’m playing unplugged. Pretty easy fix.
Shockingly good guitars for no money, great tone, sustain, solid wood, well designed and built. Never owned one, but would be excellent gigging guitars, if you have a passel of nice guitars you'd rather not play out with.
Clarification please: 7:55 surprised it's non-scalloped . . . 10:18 the scalloped bracing looks a little bit rough . . Please know I own and absolutely LOVE this instrument.
Then learn to use the fast forward function. All sections are labeled including the playing examples. By this age you should have learned to stop being a diva.
There's only a couple differences: the LL16 comes with a Deluxe Gig Bag and the LL16D has a hard shell case. Then, the LL16 has Maple and Black binding all around the guitar and the LL16D has Abalone and maple binding all around the guitar. Lastly is finish options, the LL16 has a natural, sunburst, or dark finish option whereas the LL16D has a natural or black finish option. Let us know if you have any other questions, thanks for watching!
@@adamw6271 They are about the same. Same tonewoods, and the same construction, of course, there is a variance from one guitar to another, like with any acoustic. Neither model is better than the other in terms of tone.
For the price, both of you are too picky. Jeremy said why bother with binding the neck. Because we like it bound whether it’s the same material or not. It just looks better. You guys need to not do guitar ratings ever again. You are heading this cheap guitar like it cost $4k. The Ali Dali w on these knock it completely out of the ballpark. It sounds better than most $2000 guitars and some $4000 guitars. Also, in all of my 63 years, I have nave heard of a Yamaha coming apart.
If this guitar had a bone nut and saddle and they left the binding off the neck and headstock, it'd be irresistible. Or, give us a bone nut and saddle and maple binding on the neck (skip the headstock). Charge an extra $100 for the latter. The mismatched plastic here, and the wood binding there is a turn off.
When looking at the spec sheet on the Yamaha website it lists the LL16 as having solid rosewood and when you get into an LL36 it says solid indian rosewood. What type of rosewood is used on the LL16?
For the most part, when companies don't denote what kind of rosewood they're using, it's because they most likely can't pinpoint exactly where it came from. On higher end models, they want to be sure where the rosewood came from and are able to list that in the specs. Also this isn't just a thing Yamaha does, many other companies don't specify on lower end models as well. Hope this helps!
@@AcousticShoppe It helps for sure. As long as companies don't call pau ferro, rosewood i'm alright with it. I think using pau ferro and calling it rosewood is sort of unethical.
To be honest guys, I think Jeremy has a slightly better bead on the tradeoffs that keep the street price on these guitars well below $1K. Yes, you are right some things could be better but the binding issue and scarf joints don't bother me a bit. Tone is where it is at. A lot of players will want to get better because these models punch well above their street price and for the quality they are affordable. To me that is the greatest testament to succeess.
One thing you didn't talk about are the machine heads. They are Gotoh, I believe, and only something like 14:1 or maybe 16:1. They are not great. Hey, if you happen which 18:1 or better tuners might be drop-in compatible, please let me know. I'd love to put a set of Grover Rotomatics on mine....
Excellent review, but nothing irritates me more than watching a review of an acoustic guitar that has a built in pickup system/preamp and the reviewer doesn't bother demoing the sound of the guitar plugged in. You guys are no exception. Why bother mentioning the unique 6 piezo on board passive system if you're not gonna bother letting people hear it!
You are completely right to be frustrated. We always forget to do the pickup demos, mostly because the majority or our guitars don't have them. Thanks for the comment. If you haven't already, please like and subscribe, and I'll do my best to include them in the future.
This isn't the exact LL16 in the video but if you check out any of our instruments we show a picture of the action measurements on the 1st and 12th fret: www.theacousticshoppe.com/shop/Instruments/Guitars/Yamaha/p/Yamaha-LL16-ARE-L-Series-EngelmannRosewood-Original-Jumbo-Acoustic-Guitar-w-SRT-Zero-Impact-Pickup-0478-x77934235.htm
The LL16 is a dreadnaught. I have two and they fit all my dreadnaught hardcases. Yamaha call it a modified drednaught, because of the rounded lower bout. There is an LJ16 WHICH IS A JUMBO
I have one....sounds incredible for bluegrass. Cuts thru all the Martins. Different sound profile. Not a guitar for singer songwriters.....very trebly...can't control the sound in bars with hard walls and floors. (I do use a 10 band EQ with a fishman amp and it helps. 16k is the secret to control the piezio). I would never buy another one of the LL-16's through the mail. Mine had a nasty fretboard hump between the 9 and 15th frets..I refretted it with stainless and it's okay now...but! Play it before you buy it. It should have an incredible sound and a fairly low action. That should mean the neck is fairly level before it was fretted. Typical chinese...hit or miss. I have 3 yamaha's...I'm pissed at yamaha these days....they don't help like they used to....they pretty much say screw you if they can't solve a problem. Remember....play before you buy it! You've been warned! My bracing was fine...at least what you can see....at the strap bottom area the inside bracing had glue everywhere.....that says volumes....we'll hide what you can't see in a glance.
Yamaha makes amazing guitars I love this channel
You're too kind!
I love channel. I have a 1996 Yamaha LW15 model.
There are thousands of devoted folks who love Yamaha Guitars . There is such a rich history of Yamaha.
Good, warm sounding acoustic, especially at 19:14, much thanks for the review :)
Urea is a polymer (plastic), one of the main chemical components of which is Urea, which is an organic binder derived from cattle urine. Its plastic, by any other name. I have an LL16D and have switched out the nut with bone and the saddle with a Tusq compensated saddle. It made quite the difference. Great guitar.
Thanks, good to know!
Could not agree more. The tusq saddle and nut made mine sound like a Talylor. Too bright, but the Tusq pins made a huge difference in the harmonics and balance. Took out nut and saddle. Will give bone a try. Changed out the D'Addario strings with Elixer. Not going back. Sweet strings.
I put a bone saddle in mine and put the Urea plastic saddle in my Recording King Single 0. I must say the RK sounds great with that saddle!
My 21 years old Yamaha DW 7 has urea nut and saddle with no kind of problems so far! Only changed the plastic pins for ebony ones.
Got one waiting for me under the Christmas tree. Can't wait to play it!
Every time I think about the Yamaha L Series guitars, the more I am convinced that they are some of the nicest guitars out there. I think this is a very fair review. ❤
Thanks for the feedback!
I have an LL6M ARE, and I love it. The Mohagany back and sides are great
Just in case there’s any confusion… this is what I found…
Re Urea, what Yamaha actually do is use synthetic urea which is a combo of synthetic ammonia and carbon dioxide
Good to know!
I bought my FG160in 1974 as my first guitar. I have many others now, but I still play my Yamaha. Also loved my Yamaha motorcycles and loved visiting the showroom in NYC whenever I got up there. Yamaha is a great company and I'd trust them for anything they produce as being quality. Nice axes guys.
I have owned on of these rosewood models for 6 years . Plays as good today as when I bought it. I work in a guitar shop and couldn't find anything that touches this at this price range. Big sound with lots of clarity. I love it even for finger style playing because of its dynamic range and clarity. It is big though but I don't mind that. It gets played everyday in my teaching studio and is great on stage. I like the simplicity of the pickup which I put through an active DI when needed.
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I have the LLTA, which is this guitar I believe but it also has the transacoustic system. I also have upgraded the nut and the saddle to bone. Its an amazing guitar. I dont use the trasacoutic part much, but it is fun to use every once in a while. If I had to do it over again I would have just bought the LL16 like I had originally planned. I’ve owned it for 6 months and it seems to be getting better and better sounding as it ages. I really want the LL16M now too.
Both sound beautiful I’m leaning toward the Mahogany myself I have one that I use as a travel guitar. For the money you just can’t hardly beat it.
I think I may have bought that exact rosewood one, and I love it! The saddle was plastic, and loose, and so I replaced it with a bone saddle, and ebony bridge pins.
You did buy this exact one! Those are also some nice upgrades to make this model even better!
I also moved to the Mediums instead of lights, and that improved the sound.@@AcousticShoppe
@@aaronlturner Nice!
Thanks for this great review.
After watching this and a few other videos about Yamaha LL series guitars,
I pulled the plug and got one.
I once owned a Yamaha L-20A from 1981.
I loved it but wore it out and traded it off about 6 years ago.
Yesterday, I finally replaced it with a new Yamaha LL-16D.
The 16D reminds be a lot of the great tone that my old L-20A had.
The new LL16D is amazing!
Love the tone.
More bass that I was expecting.
The Binding Bling is perfect.
Love that it came with a hard case.
My only complaint is the cheap plastic saddle.
That will be replaced very soon.
I have a 1986 Yamaha rose wood dreadnaught that I bought from a friend in 1987, traded back to him in 1989. reacquired this guitar in a trade about 2 years ago from the same friend. It sounds just like the one in this video! I use Tony Rice Monel medium gauge strings mainly playing rhythm for old time fiddle music.
I've had the ll16 for a couple of months and it is a fantastic instrument..
I have a Yamaha 12 string like this,and i had it pleked and set up with tusq nut and saddle,and a lr baggs i beam pick up. Very good playability and resonant sound.
I have had an LS16R rosewood for many years, it’s a super sleeper and blows away many big name brands, I love it.
In what way does it 'blow away' many big name brands ?
I'm interested to know what you mean, what is your definition of what makes one guitar 'blow away' another ?
@@DjNikGnashers maybe a bad choice of words, it certainly keeps up with many big brands, and usually surprises whoever plays it. I believe the L series is one of the best values out there.
@@guanobucks I still don't know what you mean by 'keeps up' or 'blows away'.
OK here's my take, based on years of fingerstyle (I don't really strum, and different guitars respond better to strumming than others, and others respond better to finger picking, etc).
I had a couple of Yamaha acoustics, they were ok, sort of average build quality, average sound, just very average.
Now, my musical hero Bert Jansch played a Yamaha LL11 quite a lot, and it sounded pretty good, but he wore a thumb pick and had long nails, and really attacked the strings, very hard, it sounded like he was plucking them off the instrument at times, but that was his style.
I have owned dozens of guitars, and Yamaha guitars (the ones I owned) reminded me of the Takamine I had, except the Takamine was brighter (which wasn't to my taste.
I had Ovations, Fenders, Gibsons, Epiphones, Ekos, Tanglewoods, yada yada, but by far the best sounding instrument is my current Lowden 32se which I had made for me.
That was quite expensive, and it should sound good for the money (which it does).
The Yamaha's I owned, had slightly muddy bass, a pronounced mid range, and a fairly unexciting treble. They didn't have great sustain, didn't have any real overtones, and didn't really have great harmonics.
They were ok, not 'bad' but just nothing special.
The Tanglewoods I had, were cheaper in price, but sounded better to my ears.
Great perspective. I’d play much more closer to your friend as I mostly strum with a pick…currently working on my Travis picking. I currently have a Martin, a Larrivee, and a few Yamahas. The other Yamahas are lower quality than the LS16. I usually play without amplification, so I like volume, and I’m partial to the low end rosewood sound.
@@guanobucks I do like a Larrivee sir !
I don't usually play amplified either, even though the Lowden has a LR Baggs anthem pickup, and to be fair it sounds quite good through my fishman loudbox.
I travis pick, but I prefer the warmer tone of flesh on string, so I keep my nails short.
Bert Jansch was not somebody I knew, he was in the band 'Pentangle' a famous 70's folk outfit.
Have a great Christmas, and enjoy your guitars !
Cool video. I own one of these. I see a lot of Yamaha faithful upset in the comments. It's a great guitar...
Yamaha is not claiming this is a red label quality build. I did a full day shootout with this guitar and maybe 20 others within a similar price. I am very impressed. It's stable, sounds like a spruce/rosewood dreadnaught.
Great guitar for flat picking.
I am a professional musician and a luthier. Yamaha makes the best guitars under $1000.00 even under $2000.00
. They make the best guitar you can buy in the sub $300.00 price range, the FS/FG 800 for $229.00
Amen. True believer!
I've played one yesterday, it's a even better price ratio/satisfaction versus my Taylor 314ce. Absolutely worth it. 314ce came with a s**tty setup on the other hand the ll16 was perfectly fine straight out of the box. I'm not a yamaha fan but this model is one I've appreciated on the spot. Awesome product
I love my Engelmann top Yamaha LL16D. I opted for nut and saddle replacement by a local luthier to bone. Also swapped out for buffalo horn pins. It is even better.
I then got the Englemann top hog LL16M. So far I have opted for keeping the urea nut and saddle. Buffalo horn pins too. Can't wait to pull off the 80/20s for DR Rare 12s.
I then got the sitka top FG3 and put a bone saddle on that with horn pins. Yikes! Great guitar tones.
I still gotta switch the nut and saddle and pins in my FG-TA and already it's blown me away.
It's interesting to hear from someone with a perspective on all 3.
Do you have a favourite of the 3? And why?
@@banjo1434 First the Engleman tops impart a different tone. You see a lot of online comparisons to high end Martins. I see both LLs as largely folk and country guitars as they don't have the distorted, muddy bass of a Martin, but articulated bass instead.
The FG3 is clearly a dread whereas both 16 models sit between a dread and a jumbo. The FG is punchy and mid-strong with great bass (again not muddy). Reminds me of a sitka Guild D40.
I know they are sometimes hard to find to play in person, but of you can it would be good to hear your impressions.
Thanks. I've played the 3 and 5 series red labels and loved them both equally. Haven't played the ll 16 s yet.
Interesting that another poster here has both The 6 and 16 models and can't tell the difference.
Guys, if you think that the LL16S sound good, wait until you try the LL26 36,56. They will blow your minds. Great reviews as always. 🍻🍻
I have the Yamaha LL16 TA, you guys have to review this one, it is just amazing
We're very excited to dive into the TA Systems soon!
I've got one too... the thing is nothing short of amazing. I traded an 89' strat for it, best trade of my life.
My Taylor's are sitting in the spare room lonely since I got this guitar.
A non scalloped brace acoustic is always louder if everything is the exact same except the bracing. Scalloped bracing adds warmth with less volume and forward shifted scalloped bracing adds more low en. Why people think scalloped bracing acoustics are louder is beyond me when it’s a fact that’s not how it works. Non scalloped bracing creates a stiffer top in return more volume but less bottom end and more bright. Scalloped bracing adds warmth do to creating a less stiff braced top and adds more bottom end with less volume. Yamaha was smart with the ll series by doing non scalloped bracing to have more volume than to make that body shape to make up for more lows compared to other non Scalloped acoustics. The englemann spruce is a smart choice and makes sense to use that as the tops to help with warmth as well. Plus have the benefit of more brace strength very genius specs if you ask me
Not so much. Ive worked on thousands of acostick guitars from the begining. Removeing wood gives u MORE vibration. Therefore more vol. But hey good luck with that. Give it a try, u will c
@@danlawson3986 I know a local acoustic guitar builder who also explained that non scalloped is generally louder because it creates a higher pitch. Also my Yamaha ll16 is louder than both my d18 and guild d40. Explain that. I don’t care how many acoustics you worked on lol. There’s guitar builders on RUclips that explain the same thing and the mechanics behind it so why should I Iisten to you. It’s also funny my Yamaha ll16 vibrates way more in the body and neck than my Martin or guild which are both scalloped. I have a Martin custom d which is also non scalloped that is louder than my d18 or guild d40. Funny huh. It’s like tuning a snare drum the higher pitch you tune them the louder they become. Bracing works the same way in in acoustic guitar. Scalloping bracing from a non scalloped acoustic does not create more vibration it simply changes the pitch and bass response it comes down to more tension vs less tension have a great day
Sorry to upset you. Engleman form the cascades is my favorite spruce. Even thou we would cut the trees in canada even that sitka wasnt as good as engleman. Its just been my experance that thinner tops are louder. And ive seen a few. One tree we got over 5000 tops. All were very good. JCL Knows how to pic them. Also i got nothing to prove. Made my bones a long time ago working with JCL snd Ren. Didnt mean to touch a nerve.
@@danlawson3986 yeah I love englemann spruce for its response. I hear a lot of people say Engelmann spruce don’t have much headroom to dig in and I haven’t experienced that with any englemann acoustic I’ve played. Sounds like nonsense to me. And yes of course thinner tops will contribute to that as well. As well as how neck joints are fitted. So many variables involved including bridge plate design as well.
I'm so glad y'all are on the Yamaha train now!! So happy you did the LL16 review, and JUST in time for me to make my decision
Recently bought a Yamaha fg820 left hander. Im a fairly new player, since my retirement. Like it a lot. Real step up from my Fender cd60s. Id like to see more lefty versions. There is one in the ll16s. Could be my next move up. Great channel.
I got a Yamaha LL16D and it's a incredible guitar and even got a greater sound than a Martin D28.
You should do a review of the Yamaha LL26 vs Martin D41
What is the difference in the LL16 vs LL16D? I'm probably gonna purchase on soon
@@adamw6271 Abalone around the sound hole and top
I have a black Yamaha Ll16 DX. I play it much more than my Gibson Hummingbird?
I just really like it ….Im a pro player and can afford to buy what I want ? But I really love my ll16 black DX.
Yamaha rocks!
All my guitars are Yamahas, they are all
Awesome. I bought a ll16 used it could hold its own against a standard D28.
As a rule I don’t like acoustic guitars with electrics, the ll16 electrics are the least intrusive I’ve ever seen
Sustainable wood’s selling points are important to me.
I find the Black LL-16 very pretty online, but have no actual hands on knowledge.
Plastic pins allow for your first customization with new strings!
Semper Fi
I have one,,its beautiful,,and for some strange reason it sounds better than the LL16 I have in natural finish,,,makes no sense to me but it truly sounds better
Thanks for reviewing this guitar. I am a long time Eastman fan but picked up the Yamaha LL16 about a year ago and really like this guitar. As you pointed out it is actually a bit wider in the lower bout and a bit deeper so it absolutely keeps up in a bluegrass/old time session. Heavy on the low end is what you want for that. It is nice and loud. It has a refined tone and the fit and finish is impeccable. Agree with the 5 star setup rating. This is where Yamaha beats out Eastman imo. You can see my review of the LL16 on my TurraFirma RUclips channel.
Recently got the LL16, best guitar i've ever had!
Shockingly good for the price... I have an LL-TA - it's a LL16, but with onboard effects. It's magic without effects, but mind blowing with the effects
My 1992 Yamaha FG450SA has the same manufacturing techniques of the headstock and neck binding. I never noticed an issue.
My Eastman E40-OO has an unbound headstock so they avoid the intersection.
Love the honesty and transparent reasoning of your evaluations!!
I agree totally about the scarf joints but I will say this I have an HD 35 Martin and I have a d45 Martin both which binding has just come off the guitar I also have an old fg-180 Yamaha from the 1970s I believe and The Binding has never come off of it so while it's easy to be disappointed with the yamaha's new binding placement at least I'm sure it will probably stay where it was originally placed and not fall off the guitar like my high dollar Martins
With my 2011 D-35 happened the same!
I am so impressed with the L Series guitars. You can't go wrong with these guitars.
I've owned my Yamaha LL16 DL for 2 yrs..Englemsn spruce/Rosewood...it sounds and plays AMAZING..imo
Nice demonstration. “Someday; I’ll own a Yamaha”. Haha; I do. My 44 year old FG340.
Have a great Christmas and new year.
Thanks a ton, we hope you have a great Christmas and New Year as well!
Great to see and hear a guitar where somebody had gone their own way. Looks good, sounds good 👍
🙂👍👍
Funny you should mention that. It seems the bulk of acoustic players are very conservative and even insecure about the brand name on the headstock. That extends to wood choices as scarcity occurs from overcutting.
So glad to know you are open-minded. I never went to med school, but it seems you hear great tone through your ears, not your eyes.
The FG and LL-TA are MONSTERS! My FG-TA is my favorite acoustic currently. Yamaha just, knows how to do it. They don't have a bad era.
I snagged up an FG3 and holy crap. Its a brute.
If you simply want the loudest guitar possible, while you are strumming your open chords with a thick plectrum, then Yamaha guitars are ok and will do the job, although not even close to being the loudest.
If you want a real instrument, with the best tone, harmonics, balance, intonation, and overtones, then you wouldn't buy a Yamaha (or any other mass produced cheaper guitar).
@DjNikGnashers That's a super easy to debunk generalization. Reminds me of the tonewood debate 10 years ago
@@stevenshockley4237 It's not a generalization.
I have owned at least 25 guitars (all acoustic), ranging from Yahamas, Takamines, Fenders, Ovations, Tanglewoods, Stagg (cheap), Epiphone, EKO, and so many more.
I know from experience.
My Lowden was hand made to my own specifications, and it is absolutely levels above anything else I have ever owned.
So it does make a difference, to have a hand made instrument, made from top grade tonewoods, with a superior bracing and 5 piece neck.
tried to buy one from ya'll but never got response back...wanted one in black...waited and waited but never heard back, so i ordered one from shop in okc...should arrive soon...wanted to buy from ya'll because you are serious players, because i'm trying to get better at playing...wanted a bridge and nut upgrade and was told you couldn't handle those upgrades, which i found hard to believe...if i have this wrong contact me and let me know...the person i was dealing with was name tyler, thanks...love your content and would still like to be a customer.
I like the L series ..so I bought two! Ls16 an an Ls6M....both are lovely , really lovely.
13:35 Come on, man. I own one like this and it is gorgeous. Easily a 4.5. The gloss on it looks so good, beautiful guitar. Come onnn broooo
This is something I want to be I feel like I need it , the pricetags is a bit steep for me but it sounds and looks beautiful fo care about the price
Thanks guys. Waiting for LS16 review also
Absolutely in the works!
@@AcousticShoppe I bought a LS6 recently but sent back as action around 3.5mm. no room to reduce without shaving bridge. Interested to see what LS16 holds. Could you mention action height and strings on your reviews? Thanks
@@tadge74 We always try to speak on the playability for sure. I can say that on our website we have pictures of the action measurements on all guitars if you're ever looking for a specific instrument. I don't believe we have an LS6 in stock at the moment but when we do they will be on the website with the action measurements if you want to compare.
Although, I can say, so far we haven't seen dramatic playability issues with Yamaha's, sorry to hear about your situation.
I played both ll6 and ll16 and cant here a difference. Yamaha is amazing
😂😂
I recently bought a LS16M for a traveler and it’s amazing the quality and value they pack into that price.
how is it ? Is it easy to play for long hours? I own LL16D, it started hurting my shoulder; looking for something smaller. Thank you
I have the ls16 and it is awesome.
No other brand makes better acoustic guitars than Yamaha for a given price point, period. There is no ifs and buts about it if you are judging on the instrument alone and not the brand name or where it comes from. Given the fact, it is up to you whether you wanna keep your money to yourself or hand it out to Martin, Taylor or any other overvalued brand.
I agree. These and even their inexpensive ones like the FG/FS 800 series are unbelievable for the money. They do actually make some really expensive models too, made in Hamamatsu, but I’ve never played one. I’d imagine they’re out of sight.
Amen brother!
You gave a great critique on these guitars. There is a certain type of player who is devoted to all things Yamaha. People know what they like and these guitars fill that certain niche.
Excellent review and discussion of these guitars. You did so good a job that they are apparently sold out, according to your website, they are not currently in stock. I'm trying decide between the M and the R. Hopefully, you can get more soon.
Wish I had the Rosewood version. I love the tone. If I could own both, I would. Great sounding guitars.
Brian May plays a custom LL series guitar.
Great videos, a comparison between ll16 and fg5 would be great as I can’t find a local store that has both ( in the uk ). keep the good work up 🙂
It's on our to-do list!
The undeniable truth: One would be extremely hard pressed to find other solid rosewood and mahogany dreadnaughts that sound as good or better than the Yamaha LL16s at ANY price. I own both of the versions of the guitars in this review. They're both slightly different sounding than the other, but the sound and playability from both is premium. Thank you guys for this objective review. I can tell you agree. Order either or both from The Acoustic Shoppe. You cannot go wrong with either.
Thanks so much for the feedback, we're glad you liked our review and we do agree! Yamaha is absolutely killing it
The video I was waiting for!
great review!, please review A3R/AC3R too
Thanks - we'll put it on the list!
I had the rosewood. I ended up returning it. Not because it wasn’t perfect in every way. Because it wasn’t the sound I go for. The build was amazing , the pitch perfect , I just prefer a more muddy tone and Yamaha isn’t that.
Great guitars, i have played them over the years. Allways impressed by everything u get from them. However, for me, lifes too short to play anything but what your heart wants. My acoustics are Larriver D-03 ( i made that one) Martin D-28 , Gibson Humming bird and JCL 000-60
I’ve got the M and it’s probably my favorite guitar. Used to the mahogany was $100 less, though, so that’s surprising.
Been through many different brands for acoustics over the years and Yamahas are by far the most consistent. They're also my favorite. You really get more than what you pay for. I have 3 in my collection now and am always looking for more.
THANKS FOR YOUR REVIEW
I apologize if you mentioned this and I missed it but what is the fret material? I know Yamaha uses stainless on their Revstars and I love those. Cheers
They don't use stainless on these models, it should be a standard Jescar fret wire.
Cracking and splitting..have yall ever talked about the binding issues with Martin? And three times the price 😂
Well, we have seen a few come in for repairs 😬
Shĥhh! Dont mention the FACTS!
I believe these are basically the same as the LL-TA which is one of my favorite guitars of all time. With a little love it’s a perfect guitar. The trans acoustic technology is a game changer. I love the bag. I was bummed it didn’t have a hardshell case, but then fell in love with that bag. Best nonhardshell case in my opinion. I don’t recommend this model only cause the LL-TA offers more for similar price. Both are a huge powerful guitar with its own sound. I’ll bring one by for you to check out if you haven’t played an LL-TA yet
The Trans Acoustic systems are totally sweet!
@@AcousticShoppe even without transacoustic on the guitar is phenomenal. I did have to take the battery compartment out out and hot glue/flex seal some wires down so they didn’t rattle against the battery compartment at certain frequencies. But after that it became the guitar i reach for half the time I’m playing unplugged. Pretty easy fix.
I think it competes with a Standard D28 pretty well.
Shockingly good guitars for no money, great tone, sustain, solid wood, well designed and built. Never owned one, but would be excellent gigging guitars, if you have a passel of nice guitars you'd rather not play out with.
The rosewood has a lot more sustain. They both sound good though.
Ordered me one yesterday
Great review!
Excellent video, guys! Which mics are you using here?
We use Ear Trumpet Labs Mics!
@@AcousticShoppe Thanks for the reply!
Good stuff❤
Clarification please: 7:55 surprised it's non-scalloped . . . 10:18 the scalloped bracing looks a little bit rough . . Please know I own and absolutely LOVE this instrument.
Like those mics . !
i played the shorter scale Yamaha Fg3 it was just ok maybe good....are these better or the same quality level?
again fantastic shirt!!!!
We would put these models at a higher level than the FG3 for sure, also thanks for the compliment!
Sound quality better also ?
@@AcousticShoppe
@@jeffreycoles7487 I would say all around they are a step higher, so yes
I have a cheap FG830..which is a great little guitar for 350…good practice guitar..
Sorry guys 18 minutes of waffling and I never heard a single note. Life is too short for this I'm dying here every minute is precious at my age
Then learn to use the fast forward function. All sections are labeled including the playing examples. By this age you should have learned to stop being a diva.
@@burmy1552 The whole point of not fast forwarding was to hear what they had to say without being rude. Obviously not something you're familiar with
Awesome sounding guitars! What is the difference in the LL16 vs LL16d? Trying to decide which to get
There's only a couple differences: the LL16 comes with a Deluxe Gig Bag and the LL16D has a hard shell case. Then, the LL16 has Maple and Black binding all around the guitar and the LL16D has Abalone and maple binding all around the guitar. Lastly is finish options, the LL16 has a natural, sunburst, or dark finish option whereas the LL16D has a natural or black finish option.
Let us know if you have any other questions, thanks for watching!
@AcousticShoppe Thanks for the reply! As far as sound and tone are concerned, are they about the same, or is one slightly better?
@@adamw6271 They are about the same. Same tonewoods, and the same construction, of course, there is a variance from one guitar to another, like with any acoustic. Neither model is better than the other in terms of tone.
@@AcousticShoppe Thanks!
Funny where I from bluegrass players play a lot of Yamahas at least the ones that can’t afford martins
Or the smart ones.
How woukd this compare to the Eastman E10D or 20D... Thanks
For the price, both of you are too picky. Jeremy said why bother with binding the neck. Because we like it bound whether it’s the same material or not. It just looks better. You guys need to not do guitar ratings ever again. You are heading this cheap guitar like it cost $4k. The Ali Dali w on these knock it completely out of the ballpark. It sounds better than most $2000 guitars and some $4000 guitars. Also, in all of my 63 years, I have nave heard of a Yamaha coming apart.
Will you have any LL26,36 or 56 coming in which is i think are-the made in japan LL’s?
👍Would like to hear a back to back with these high end Japan models and the China made 16 series.
Why don’t you guys do a test? Send it to a hot and wet climate, then a cold dry one. Compare how they sound and hold up.
They should send one to the space station while they are at it
If this guitar had a bone nut and saddle and they left the binding off the neck and headstock, it'd be irresistible.
Or, give us a bone nut and saddle and maple binding on the neck (skip the headstock). Charge an extra $100 for the latter.
The mismatched plastic here, and the wood binding there is a turn off.
When looking at the spec sheet on the Yamaha website it lists the LL16 as having solid rosewood and when you get into an LL36 it says solid indian rosewood. What type of rosewood is used on the LL16?
For the most part, when companies don't denote what kind of rosewood they're using, it's because they most likely can't pinpoint exactly where it came from. On higher end models, they want to be sure where the rosewood came from and are able to list that in the specs. Also this isn't just a thing Yamaha does, many other companies don't specify on lower end models as well. Hope this helps!
@@AcousticShoppe It helps for sure. As long as companies don't call pau ferro, rosewood i'm alright with it. I think using pau ferro and calling it rosewood is sort of unethical.
To be honest guys, I think Jeremy has a slightly better bead on the tradeoffs that keep the street price on these guitars well below $1K. Yes, you are right some things could be better but the binding issue and scarf joints don't bother me a bit. Tone is where it is at. A lot of players will want to get better because these models punch well above their street price and for the quality they are affordable. To me that is the greatest testament to succeess.
Great video
Thanks so much!
One thing you didn't talk about are the machine heads. They are Gotoh, I believe, and only something like 14:1 or maybe 16:1. They are not great. Hey, if you happen which 18:1 or better tuners might be drop-in compatible, please let me know. I'd love to put a set of Grover Rotomatics on mine....
We're not too sure about compatible tuners since the brand is still a bit new to us but we shall research that!
Wow.. in Italy price Is 1180€
Gig bag has an exoskeleton inside of it?
LS6 M forever!
Excellent review, but nothing irritates me more than watching a review of an acoustic guitar that has a built in pickup system/preamp and the reviewer doesn't bother demoing the sound of the guitar plugged in. You guys are no exception. Why bother mentioning the unique 6 piezo on board passive system if you're not gonna bother letting people hear it!
You are completely right to be frustrated. We always forget to do the pickup demos, mostly because the majority or our guitars don't have them. Thanks for the comment. If you haven't already, please like and subscribe, and I'll do my best to include them in the future.
Makogany sounds way better than rosewood!
That's what I thought too.
some day review the yamaha ac3r
@theacousticshoppe are you sure your price is correct. Thomann in Europe have the ll16 for €1200 plus ...
We can't speak on how Yamaha's European pricing stands, but we can guarantee our pricing correct!
Around $1200 dollars Australian, roughly.
You said set up was great, what action at 12th are they? Thanks
This isn't the exact LL16 in the video but if you check out any of our instruments we show a picture of the action measurements on the 1st and 12th fret: www.theacousticshoppe.com/shop/Instruments/Guitars/Yamaha/p/Yamaha-LL16-ARE-L-Series-EngelmannRosewood-Original-Jumbo-Acoustic-Guitar-w-SRT-Zero-Impact-Pickup-0478-x77934235.htm
@@AcousticShoppe perfect thanks
Yamaha LL16 vs Eastman E20D
Does Yamaha not sell this Jumbo with the Trans-acoustic add on? That would be a perfect Jumbo to have.
The LL-TA is their largest body size that comes with the TA System I believe, so yes!
Yes they do... LL-TA
The LL16 is a dreadnaught. I have two and they fit all my dreadnaught hardcases. Yamaha call it a modified drednaught, because of the rounded lower bout. There is an LJ16 WHICH IS A JUMBO
I want an LL16D however do you guys sell the Yamaha red label fgx3, fsx3 and the fgx5 and fsx5
We do sell those models! They should be on order, we're just not sure exactly when they will arrive, give us a call if you would like more info!
I have one....sounds incredible for bluegrass. Cuts thru all the Martins. Different sound profile. Not a guitar for singer songwriters.....very trebly...can't control the sound in bars with hard walls and floors. (I do use a 10 band EQ with a fishman amp and it helps. 16k is the secret to control the piezio).
I would never buy another one of the LL-16's through the mail. Mine had a nasty fretboard hump between the 9 and 15th frets..I refretted it with stainless and it's okay now...but! Play it before you buy it. It should have an incredible sound and a fairly low action. That should mean the neck is fairly level before it was fretted. Typical chinese...hit or miss.
I have 3 yamaha's...I'm pissed at yamaha these days....they don't help like they used to....they pretty much say screw you if they can't solve a problem. Remember....play before you buy it! You've been warned! My bracing was fine...at least what you can see....at the strap bottom area the inside bracing had glue everywhere.....that says volumes....we'll hide what you can't see in a glance.