Me too bro,me too. While I try not to buy as much minis, this is,or was, my last hobby. I no longer have hobbies to enjoy. All of them hobbies I used to enjoy are gone.
@@reinhardtc.p stick with old things man, revisit old games/books/movies/series/videogames/comics/videogames. try manga/anime, for the moment is "almost homogeneous"
@@reinhardtc.p agree man, agree. They have broken almost all my hobbies, my last keep is manga/anime, and even then, they have started the "erosion" of it too. If i had more money, I would try to buy whatever i loved and keep a physiocal copy, because as soon as they make everything digital, it will be over. (like the things they changed in Roal Dahl books, 1984, taking those books out of the cloud, etc) Dark, and sad times ahead of us
@AlexAlex-zt3hi Well,we will always have Mobile Suit Gundam. You are very correct,if anybody watches this comment,store whatever physical copies of any media or hobby you're a fan of. Shit's about to go down pretty soon.
If you are still purchasing any Games Workshop related material at this point (overpriced FOMO plastic, overpriced paints, overpriced tools, video games, books) you are directly contributing and enabling the divorced-from-reality robber barons to continue their anticonsumer and woke Chaos crusade.
I’m fairly new to the hobby. But I think what most people don’t realize is that if you plan to collect and play 40K, for your average guy, it takes up most of your hobby time and money. If you’re an average guy with limited hobby time and money, which puts people off after they realize that
Most people's hobbies are just video games. I was able to get into the game, making $11 an hour. One kit every 2 weeks. Even when 40k was cheaper, it was never that cheap.
I dunno - if I spent all the money I’ve spent on video games on warhammer instead… I’d have a shitload of warhammer stuff. I actually think that there’s a bunch of people who like the idea of the hobby a lot more than the reality - they smash together models as fast as possible and don’t want to spent the time to work on painting. If you enjoy these things you’re getting a good amount of hours out of a box - and then the tabletop is the “infinite game” part (play over and over). Not to defend GW too much - it shouldn’t be so expensive - but I don’t think it’s THAT much more expensive than video games if you’re in it for the hobby and for the game.
@@maxparker4808 I would definitely agree with you on every point there. I would like to point out though that it cost millions of dollars to produce a video game, especially triple a video games that will be comparable in price to a games workshop box. And while making miniatures isn’t free, the miniatures they sell are in fact, hilariously overpriced for what is in the box.
@@johntaylor8469 What you are describing is "cost plus" pricing which is not how either video games OR miniatures are priced. The companies have to price based on what you get. Is GW charging at the upper end? Hell yes they are - but the limit is nothing to do with how much it costs to make, and everything to do with people's willingness to pay (based on what they are getting -- consumers don't care how much work it was to make the thing)
The worse curse of 40k becoming mainstream is not the watering down, people misunderstanding/changing the setting or the increase in annoying anime furry rule 34 art. It's the fact from here on out as the popularity hype dies down, everyone will know 40k and people will always associate with you with negative stereotypes of a 40K player from when it was in the limelight. The only good thing I'm enjoying is I'm talking to friends and family who want to listen now about a game I've played my whole life where 5-10 years ago, they never paid attention or wanted to listen when I did bring it up
@Ayahuasca98 Oh for sure. It's always been there. Every fandom has it. I remember Cultist Chan was popular in 2010ish. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's increasing to the point where I see it almost all the freaking time where as before it would pop up here and there
40k players and tabletop players in general have been stuck with the smelly nerd trope for decades. It's only now that it's gone mainstream that it's gone away
@@mastermide77 maybe but 20 years ago I could tell some random normies in my friend circle and they wouldn't know what 40k was or what was associated with that. Not even the smelly Neckbeard stereotype. Now, people I've known for decades know what 40k is although we've never talked about it. Our reputation (good or bad) is going to proceed us.
Let's face it. GW's growth exploded after they kicked Kirby out. I don't like the new GW as much as the next guy, but every oldie knows the cancer that was Kirby.
@@Ayahuasca98 Where do I even start: 1. the End Times was coined and developed under his tenure. 2. So was AoS, and it all stemmed from 3. chronic lack of communication with the players. And I do mean ZERO. FAQs were made "when they were made" 4. some editions didn't even provide codices for every army, 5. the attack on websites and fan content started during Kirby's tenure, relentlessly killing off wikis and forums that discussed Warhammer, 6. arguably the whole corporate structure and culture developed and festered under his tenure, 7. one-man stores were supposedly his idea, 8. disregard for specialist games. Thanks to Kirby Bloodbowl, Gothic, Necromunda and others were just left in the dust as they didnt sell. And now for some special mongy tidbits from the man himself: "We are a model company, not a games company." "Our customers don't need to play games; they just need to collect models." "We don't do market research." "The rules exist to sell miniatures." "We don’t compete with other miniature companies. We compete with all forms of entertainment." "We don’t need to advertise; the stores are our advertising." and last but definitely not the least "The Hobby is buying Games Workshop products"
@@Ayahuasca98 youtube nuked my comment so I'll divide it into 2 sections. Where do I even start: 1. the End Times was coined and developed under his tenure. 2. So was AoS, and it all stemmed from 3. chronic lack of communication with the players. And I do mean ZERO. FAQs were made "when they were made" 4. some editions didn't even provide codices for every army, 5. the attack on websites and fan content started during Kirby's tenure, relentlessly killing off wikis and forums that discussed Warhammer, 6. arguably the whole corporate structure and culture developed and festered under his tenure, 7. one-man stores were supposedly his idea, 8. disregard for specialist games. Thanks to Kirby Bloodbowl, Gothic, Necromunda and others were just left in the dust as they didnt sell.
@@Ayahuasca98 And now for some special mongy tidbits from the man himself: "We are a model company, not a games company." "Our customers don't need to play games; they just need to collect models." "We don't do market research." "The rules exist to sell miniatures." "We don’t compete with other miniature companies. We compete with all forms of entertainment." "We don’t need to advertise; the stores are our advertising." and last but definitely not the least "The Hobby is buying Games Workshop products"
@@mtgmac1 And that was the time I got out of it. I and some others lost armies that were just written out of fantasy and the armies we did have were modified in such a way as to require retooling them with new figures or just accepting being defeated because you didn't keep up. The Specialist games were the last thing I clung to but that all died. It was a sad time to sell off my various armies that were all painted, converted and well done. It has never regained its nostalgia and seems to have become a more pale, corporate version of what it was.
I've only just got back into the hobby after nearly 30 years away from it (working for GW killed my childhood hobby passion for a long-ass time), but now I'm back and loving getting back into painting and modelling. I'm doing it my way though... I'm basing everything back on my 1st and 2nd Edition days, when the grimdark wasn't the be-all-end-all and the satirical elements of the setting weren't covered in twelve layers of Edgelord Black undercoating spray. So I use the paints I find give me the results I want, I make scratch-built models and convert everything I want the way I want, I make my own scenery, and my 3d printer gives me all the models I could need at a fraction of the cost and with way more variety. GW gets very little out of me, and for MY hobby (because it is mine now, on my own terms, and if that means I can't play in an official tournament, we'll boo hoo - I couldn't give a single toss) it is giving my back what I always loved about the game and the setting. Screw 'em. Let them go make toys and scented candles till the heat death of the universe... they can't take it away from me anymore.
the stuff with Battletech was so blatant. the rapid and sudden attacks on everyone from Blaine Pardoe to *TEX OF THE BPL* who is about as offensive and assuming as whipped marshmallow cream, all by the usual suspects with politics and culture war identities literally no one cared about in Battletech, should tell you it was done by a corporate entity.
happening with every hooby 15-25 years ago was a "no-go zone" for popular people. Video games, miniature games, board games, scify, fantasy, comics, anime, manga, card games, etc
Battletech was dead for decades till recently. I don't know what you're on about with that? Hell they still even make the old models and still have rules for them
@@mastermide77 The company that owns Battletech now is very woke, to the point they fired one of their best-selling authors just because he is conservative.
I am really honestly worried Henery Cavil is about to get "Witchered" in this Warhammer 40k TV series. I think he was sold a bill of goods about "executive control" over the show to get him on board and to get some people to "feel comfortable" about the Amazon Deal regardless of that we all know about Amazon and the way they treat IP's (wheel of time, Rings of Power etc.) because "Henry will save us and keep our lore safe." I'll say this, I doubt anyone ever thought Star Wars would be in the state it is in now. Even with all the Movies and TV shows, Disney has not made enough money to cover the cost they paid for Star Wars. People always thought Star Wars was too big to fail especially with Disney behind it. Time will tell; I could be wrong of course. Disney thought they didn't need Star Wars fans; Bad Robot didn't need Star Trek Fans either.
Recasts and resin, I'm telling y'all it's the way. Only buy the legit stuff if it's actually worth it, otherwise why deal with GW. "Well that's technically theft" yea, so is charging 100 dollars for one thumb sized figure.
Buddy and I would could be considered "whales" in the GW world. We've been buying and playing since the late 2001. We both make very good salaries and live very comfortable lives now. He still buys every new edition for 40k and AoS, evey new board game they make and necromundo. I started slowing down when Primaris released and now maybe buy one model a year from GW. I stopped because the prices keep going up, i can afford the prices even if they were 5x what they are now. But the price doesn't make sense for the product. I have explained as much to my buddy. That it's not about the dollar amount spent it's that the sticker price for the plastic doesn't make sense. He just keeps saying that GW needs to ofset their costs, and molds are expensive and blah blah blah... He even argued with me about GW's 50% PROFIT margin, which is unheard of in the world of manufacturing/ business in general. People need to wake up.
Recently I’ve been getting back an interest in historicals (especially Warlord Games like hail Caesar, Bolt Action, and probably very soon Pike and Shotte). They seem to care more than GW
I jumped on the Bolt action train about when the 8th edition 40k abomination was bursting through the doors and smearing crap everywhere. I love the system, i love the models, i love the community. I wish you all the best with your new journey!
The increase in revenue goes up by a smaller percentage then prices increase, indicating fewer units moved. People forget that GW isn't too big to fail, they only became the biggest in the industry 20 years ago, less then half way through its existence, entirely due to things outside of its control in the form of the American industry collapsing and them filling the void. It also hasn't been the biggest for all that time, over the past 20 years, 4 of them saw FFG take their spot at the top and it was only a combination of factors outside of their own control that saw them lose that spot. This shows GW is not actually able to compete when people stop pretending they have no competition, which is why the rising middle powers in the industry are an existential threat to them, likely even more so then 3D printing.
I’m new here, started in autumn of 2020 because I needed a creative outlet or I’d go mental. The hobby has done a lot positive for me, but I do see the trends toward either failure or blandness. I’m trying to exercise my game design muscles by creating a small scale skirmish version of 40k that targets around 5-15 models per side. My goal is to make a game snappy and responsive to player input and much shorter in length, with story-driven scoring. The point is I am making this hobby work for me, regardless of what happens to 40k as a monolith. If even one person enjoys the structure I eventually come up with as a way to play with toy soldiers, I’ll be very happy.
I hate the average '40k fan' at this point. People who complained about the setting feeling stale due to a lack of 'lore' 'progression' fly in the face of the core setting: a stagnant empire fighting unceasing and unchanging war on a galatic scale. I miss when GW was aloof from its fanbase. Nothing is gained by me for having some lame piece of cinema parodying the setting.
This hobby required reading skills and basic comprehension of rules at some point. Now, with content constantly being slammed in a youtube video for the "TLDR" crowd, we get dumbed-down rules all homogenized and turned into the same junk. "Oh its so complicated and convoluted, we need OPR!!1!!1" How many times have we heard that? Maybe accommodating our rules for the people who cant even read at a 4th grade level isn't a great move for keeping people interested in a hobby that is supposed to have depth. Now it's all flashy videogames, bright colors, and animation aimed at individuals with an attention span of 14 seconds. It's not for me, and it hasn't been for years. This game system really REALLY showed it's dumbing down with the 8th ed release and the NEW Space Marines with trash, unfitting lore tailored toward the mainstream, NOT Warhammer's actual fans.
@@azrael1045 TC looks really cool, but it is not a great stand in for a setting like 40k. People forget 40k isnt completely grim dark as TC currently appears to be.
A few people at my work were talking about 40k due to playing the Space marine 2 game. All of them were talking about how they liked Space marines as an army and were asking me to describe the others, they liked what I said about the Orks but were very unhappy with Drukhari and Chaos and one literally said "They should change them". These are the new fans we can expect to have :)
@@mastermide77 Disagree with this, Games Workshop became a public company in 1994, before it was private. This completely changed their incentive structure. At best, had they stayed private, Games Workshop would have downscaled and stayed similar to Mantic or Warlord Games. Private means they don't need to justify profit to their shareholders on an annual basis. 40k and fantasy would have stayed niche with the possibility of the Lord of the Rings as well.
@BorninPurple witch actually sucks lol. With how big the game is now. There's still entire population groups that are unable to play it. My city of 400k people has two game stores. One gw, one 3rd party. I just spent $130 on trench crusades, knowing like 4 people who even know about it.
I despise that in order for me to support my local gaming store, I have to support GW directly as well. Were it not for the people I have met, and shared so many games with, I would have stayed gone years ago.
Crazy that everything you said was brilliant about 8th is the same stuff I like about 10th. Removing the indexes when the codexes came out was a wild self own in my opinion though. GW really need to hammer out how to do "games as service". Dying on the hill of "rules need to be a physical sales widget" is wildly shortsighted.
The American comic book industry (marvel, DC) did the samethings and it killed it. Raising prices on fewer people, bringing in wokies to write stories, need money you put out alternative covets or restart a book at a new #1, licence put to video games, etc... if GW doesn't learn that if you dont maintain the quality of the story and give people at least some value for their money people leave and don't come back
I think north brought up a good point. The old guard and new players who truly appreciate 40k for what it really is are what is bringing new players into the hobby. But again as north says, alot of new players don't stick around. As the old guard gets pushed out or just says "fuck this shit I'm out", who will bring in the new players
So, my take away is we need to short the company during one of the in between edition luls so that we can recupperate the money we spent on the marked up minis
I do hope GW has lots of success with Amazon and normies. The equivalent of superhero fatigue will hit them harder than a thunder hammer after they stop being in the zeitgeist.This time however there will be no greybeards to keep the hobby alive for the next generation. The "modern audience way" is a fickle mistress.
I just been writing my own wargaming system/setting , based on a Grim dark Ancient antiquity post bronze age collapse setting. My friends i been play testing it with seem to like it so far.
8th edition was one of the smartest move GW did. If you’re a 10-14 year old kid wanting to play the game, and presented with a load of number charts it can be a turn off.
I've only been around since 8th & I've already fell out of love with 40K. Maybe its due to my lack of dedication compared to old fans, or maybe it exemplifies just how radically the brand has been changing in recent years. In any case, I don't really care about 40K's fate. I'm far more invested in its sister franchise, The Horus Heresy 2.0. Better rules, longer edition lifespan, better characters, more character personalization, more narrative drama, more room for lords of war, and little room for "new developments". It did get nipped in the butt with the Siege of Terra novels (Erda, Horus' altered death, etc), but now that they're finally finished the story, its very unlikely to be sculpted into something alien to me. Sure, the game gets less content than some would like, but that's the tradeoff for not being mainstream, and a caveat I'll gladly pay to keep it as niche as possible. To use your bucket analogy, 40K and AoS are the two largest buckets under GW's wing, in which the bulk of the water is poured. But just below those are smaller buckets that catch some of the water leaking from the big two. HH, Middle-Earth, Necromunda, Warcry, Titanicus, The Old World, and so on. And while some of those smaller buckets have giant holes in them right now (Old World), allowing for minimal water retention, others like Horus Heresy and Middle-Earth have very few leaks. They're where fans go when they fall out of love with 40K or AoS, but aren't resentful of GW as a result. And its kinda where I'm at right now. I see 40K almost in the same light as GW themselves, only instead of money, what I get out of it are new HH range releases. I no longer care for its fate, just as I haven't cared about any new or future content for Star Wars or the MCU for nigh a decade. There was a good year or so where I was upset & angry, but now, instead of trying to salvage that through a number of ulterior means (proxies, old rulesets, niche hobby groups, etc), I'd rather jump directly into a game & setting I can chew on without needing to change a thing. And it feels great. Better than 40K has, well, ever felt in the few years I've known it. Only thing its really missing in my eyes, are Orks. If not for that, I wouldn't miss 40K too much.
I just don’t understand the business model of GW sometimes. I am fine with some of the mainstream moves of expanding their products and doing license deals, but then they also make their main products less accessible by raising prices constantly and churning through editions and codices. The worst parts probably being that they have to errata huge swaths of a codex even on release day in addition to the general rules bloat. I would probably feel better about price rises if I knew it was going to pay increases to the not so well paid line workers and designers to attract and maintain talent, but it just feels like greed when they do it.
@@Kharmazov Nope. Look a little deeper and you’ll see that is just a myth. Some goofballs tried to take over the community in the beginning but they’ve retreated back to their holes.
lol, i have some old metal hormagaunts from second edtiton that looks like the alien monster. with extra limbs with spikes. and there is a little more to the similarities of dune then just the imperium of man. that said i agree there is nothing wrong with being inspired and making your own story. Starwars was originally written in the Dune Universe and only changed because Frank told George no he could not use arakis. so spice became moisture and we had another big franchise we loved for decades till Disney ruined it. Molds that have been around for decades have paid for them and the models should have gotten cheaper, and i fully agree with the cost lies. they do not like us and i do believe the future is not model driven. infact i would not be surprised if they go digital completely with toys, video games and movies and tv series. I still have my little red book from 2007 and my spiral training book. with the how to paint models. how to run the academy.
by the time the hype dies down, Alternatives like One Page Rules, Trench Crusade and other classics like Battletech will be poised to fill the gap for the actual clientele, leaving GW with not a whole lot. GW cannot exist purely as an IP holder. Hype backlash is a thing in the mainstream.
GW can do whatever they want, 40k and FB are in my heart the way they were in the past. And I'll be always able to get to that world anytime I play it. I don't have to get into the new stuff if I don't like it (AoS). (the new edition isn't that bad btw, I might get into it after all).
I’ve got into the hobby last summer and to be honest I’ve never been artistic in my life played lots of spots an drink an work blue collar but the painting for me is an outlet that I find addicting an my gf supports it sadly I paint night lords so I see where people at frustrated I don’t even play the game
got the leviathan set for around 60 dollars. bought the stls before the box came out and pirated the books then printed the HOLE SET. the minis and books i could even make the box at my house and those cardboard posters
To be honest I try to support my Local store as much as possible but when the store owners/manager persuades you to play other games besides GW that tells you allot. I mean only reason most game shops stay afloat is because MTG releases drafts.
mean every bubble bursts eventually. specially when said bubble requires near constant levels of content injection to keep going. and relying on high cost projects for a spike is definitely playing with fire as weve seen last year with the likes of ubisoft just takes a string of bad choices and that stock is gonna come plummeting.
So, GW to me is the bigger gateway to the hobby but they're not the hobby. Either you get into 40k or fantasy, or you find a better game. I liked playing 40k for a year when i first started the hobby, but the game itself to me was too slow, too bloated and too gotcha. The turn order is a mess to me, I started to hate playing as the games would take hours and having someone move all units before getting to take a turn is ridiculous to me. I started looking for new games after 8 months of playing. I looked into Conquest, which I like a lot but the scene in my area is sparse, and then settled on OPR. OPR is great for a fun game but the more you play it's lacking in some depth in areas but recent updates have kind of fixed that. Still, very fun game to play and great model line to paint. I've also gotten into CMON's A song of ice and fire which scratches that depth itch and the model line is good and the game is fun. Beyond that we have so many more games to pick and choose from ranging from WWII in Bolt Action or silly things like Rumbleslam and Gaslands. GW has made it clear that they don't care about their game, their setting or their fans so I'd much rather give money to games that do and are just plain fun to play.
A while ago you said that 3d printers were gonna hit GW really hard and possibly lead to them losing a lot of their business, now you're saying they're gonna continue to make money hand over fist. Which one is it?
In a perfect world, they will start selling exclusive 3d printed minis and STLs. Or they'll start putting printers in shops thus destroying the concept of "limited supply". But at the same time, the number of "exclusive" and "one of a kind" miniatures that you can only get in stores will have to increase in order to keep people hooked on "new" releases.
Both more people are turning to printers who have been into the hobby for a while or a long time. They get alot of money from new people who drop out after two years see it non stop just look online it's a common story. Sick of non stop changes to armies requiring you to redo lists, and models of you do any official events by the time you get that done there is another fix .
dude its like marvel when they were going hardcore into woke and dei. they made alot of money at first but now look at the. same with star wars. they will lose its just warhammer fans are as bad as star wars fan they cant let go of it and continue to support. GW has been slapping the fans in the face for almost a decade and yet THE FANS WONT MOVE ON. serously why buy and play with GW rules and models. FING 3D print, play OPR, KOW, Conquest TLAOK, and etc. jesus you dont even need a resin printer for good minis now you can have an FDM. Leave GW and support old warhammer, and other rule sets that ARE WAAAAAYYY MORE FUN. oh and those games i listed are completely fine with GW models and other models.
Here me out: it's just a game. People buy an army, paint and army, play the game, and then they don't need to buy anything else. I've built a 2000 point army, and now I don't need to spend more money. It doesn't need to be a LIFESTYLE. It's a fucking board game. Of course they get sales on a new edition.
Its just wonderful to hear how every setting you loved hates you over and over and over.
I'm tired, I'm just so tired
Me too bro,me too. While I try not to buy as much minis, this is,or was, my last hobby. I no longer have hobbies to enjoy. All of them hobbies I used to enjoy are gone.
@@reinhardtc.p stick with old things man, revisit old games/books/movies/series/videogames/comics/videogames.
try manga/anime, for the moment is "almost homogeneous"
@@AlexAlex-zt3hi OH,I already do that,but i can't help but to feel on my skin and soul how everything has changed for the worst.
@@reinhardtc.p agree man, agree.
They have broken almost all my hobbies, my last keep is manga/anime, and even then, they have started the "erosion" of it too.
If i had more money, I would try to buy whatever i loved and keep a physiocal copy, because as soon as they make everything digital, it will be over. (like the things they changed in Roal Dahl books, 1984, taking those books out of the cloud, etc)
Dark, and sad times ahead of us
@AlexAlex-zt3hi Well,we will always have Mobile Suit Gundam. You are very correct,if anybody watches this comment,store whatever physical copies of any media or hobby you're a fan of. Shit's about to go down pretty soon.
Chasing a trend when it used to set the trend is the #1 indicator of a dying company as you knew it.
If you are still purchasing any Games Workshop related material at this point (overpriced FOMO plastic, overpriced paints, overpriced tools, video games, books) you are directly contributing and enabling the divorced-from-reality robber barons to continue their anticonsumer and woke Chaos crusade.
See how far GW had fallen through Chaos from woke agenda activist. They are an abomination.
3D Print for the 3D Print God.
Resin for the Resin Throne.
Let GW Burn.
Stop equating woke to chaos you crybaby
You’re the equivalent to the type of millennial who sees trump and goes “ERM HE IS LIKE VOLDEMORT”
Unfortunately these companies get paid to ruin themselves and push unpopular agendas, you cant boycott Blackrock.
"Le wokeism"
I’m fairly new to the hobby. But I think what most people don’t realize is that if you plan to collect and play 40K, for your average guy, it takes up most of your hobby time and money. If you’re an average guy with limited hobby time and money, which puts people off after they realize that
Most people's hobbies are just video games. I was able to get into the game, making $11 an hour. One kit every 2 weeks. Even when 40k was cheaper, it was never that cheap.
I was going to say something of those lines.
The hobby is dying because we are dying as an economy/society.
We are surviving. Not developing.
I dunno - if I spent all the money I’ve spent on video games on warhammer instead… I’d have a shitload of warhammer stuff.
I actually think that there’s a bunch of people who like the idea of the hobby a lot more than the reality - they smash together models as fast as possible and don’t want to spent the time to work on painting. If you enjoy these things you’re getting a good amount of hours out of a box - and then the tabletop is the “infinite game” part (play over and over).
Not to defend GW too much - it shouldn’t be so expensive - but I don’t think it’s THAT much more expensive than video games if you’re in it for the hobby and for the game.
@@maxparker4808 I would definitely agree with you on every point there. I would like to point out though that it cost millions of dollars to produce a video game, especially triple a video games that will be comparable in price to a games workshop box. And while making miniatures isn’t free, the miniatures they sell are in fact, hilariously overpriced for what is in the box.
@@johntaylor8469 What you are describing is "cost plus" pricing which is not how either video games OR miniatures are priced. The companies have to price based on what you get. Is GW charging at the upper end? Hell yes they are - but the limit is nothing to do with how much it costs to make, and everything to do with people's willingness to pay (based on what they are getting -- consumers don't care how much work it was to make the thing)
The worse curse of 40k becoming mainstream is not the watering down, people misunderstanding/changing the setting or the increase in annoying anime furry rule 34 art. It's the fact from here on out as the popularity hype dies down, everyone will know 40k and people will always associate with you with negative stereotypes of a 40K player from when it was in the limelight.
The only good thing I'm enjoying is I'm talking to friends and family who want to listen now about a game I've played my whole life where 5-10 years ago, they never paid attention or wanted to listen when I did bring it up
To be fair weird art had been a thing even in the pre-primaris days. See cultist chan and stuff
@Ayahuasca98 Oh for sure. It's always been there. Every fandom has it. I remember Cultist Chan was popular in 2010ish. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's increasing to the point where I see it almost all the freaking time where as before it would pop up here and there
@@dabba_dabba plus cultist-chan is at least kinda a goofy parody of the annoying cultists from DOW 1
40k players and tabletop players in general have been stuck with the smelly nerd trope for decades. It's only now that it's gone mainstream that it's gone away
@@mastermide77 maybe but 20 years ago I could tell some random normies in my friend circle and they wouldn't know what 40k was or what was associated with that. Not even the smelly Neckbeard stereotype. Now, people I've known for decades know what 40k is although we've never talked about it. Our reputation (good or bad) is going to proceed us.
Let's face it. GW's growth exploded after they kicked Kirby out. I don't like the new GW as much as the next guy, but every oldie knows the cancer that was Kirby.
Damn I got into warhammer in 2014 what did Kirby do?
@@Ayahuasca98 Where do I even start:
1. the End Times was coined and developed under his tenure.
2. So was AoS, and it all stemmed from
3. chronic lack of communication with the players. And I do mean ZERO. FAQs were made "when they were made"
4. some editions didn't even provide codices for every army,
5. the attack on websites and fan content started during Kirby's tenure, relentlessly killing off wikis and forums that discussed Warhammer,
6. arguably the whole corporate structure and culture developed and festered under his tenure,
7. one-man stores were supposedly his idea,
8. disregard for specialist games. Thanks to Kirby Bloodbowl, Gothic, Necromunda and others were just left in the dust as they didnt sell.
And now for some special mongy tidbits from the man himself:
"We are a model company, not a games company."
"Our customers don't need to play games; they just need to collect models."
"We don't do market research."
"The rules exist to sell miniatures."
"We don’t compete with other miniature companies. We compete with all forms of entertainment."
"We don’t need to advertise; the stores are our advertising."
and last but definitely not the least
"The Hobby is buying Games Workshop products"
@@Ayahuasca98 youtube nuked my comment so I'll divide it into 2 sections. Where do I even start:
1. the End Times was coined and developed under his tenure.
2. So was AoS, and it all stemmed from
3. chronic lack of communication with the players. And I do mean ZERO. FAQs were made "when they were made"
4. some editions didn't even provide codices for every army,
5. the attack on websites and fan content started during Kirby's tenure, relentlessly killing off wikis and forums that discussed Warhammer,
6. arguably the whole corporate structure and culture developed and festered under his tenure,
7. one-man stores were supposedly his idea,
8. disregard for specialist games. Thanks to Kirby Bloodbowl, Gothic, Necromunda and others were just left in the dust as they didnt sell.
@@Ayahuasca98 And now for some special mongy tidbits from the man himself:
"We are a model company, not a games company."
"Our customers don't need to play games; they just need to collect models."
"We don't do market research."
"The rules exist to sell miniatures."
"We don’t compete with other miniature companies. We compete with all forms of entertainment."
"We don’t need to advertise; the stores are our advertising."
and last but definitely not the least
"The Hobby is buying Games Workshop products"
@@mtgmac1 And that was the time I got out of it. I and some others lost armies that were just written out of fantasy and the armies we did have were modified in such a way as to require retooling them with new figures or just accepting being defeated because you didn't keep up. The Specialist games were the last thing I clung to but that all died. It was a sad time to sell off my various armies that were all painted, converted and well done.
It has never regained its nostalgia and seems to have become a more pale, corporate version of what it was.
I've only just got back into the hobby after nearly 30 years away from it (working for GW killed my childhood hobby passion for a long-ass time), but now I'm back and loving getting back into painting and modelling. I'm doing it my way though... I'm basing everything back on my 1st and 2nd Edition days, when the grimdark wasn't the be-all-end-all and the satirical elements of the setting weren't covered in twelve layers of Edgelord Black undercoating spray. So I use the paints I find give me the results I want, I make scratch-built models and convert everything I want the way I want, I make my own scenery, and my 3d printer gives me all the models I could need at a fraction of the cost and with way more variety. GW gets very little out of me, and for MY hobby (because it is mine now, on my own terms, and if that means I can't play in an official tournament, we'll boo hoo - I couldn't give a single toss) it is giving my back what I always loved about the game and the setting.
Screw 'em. Let them go make toys and scented candles till the heat death of the universe... they can't take it away from me anymore.
Just the same thing we saw happen with D&D and Battletech.
Same with Starwars. What’s happening to 40K is no different.
the stuff with Battletech was so blatant.
the rapid and sudden attacks on everyone from Blaine Pardoe to *TEX OF THE BPL* who is about as offensive and assuming as whipped marshmallow cream, all by the usual suspects with politics and culture war identities literally no one cared about in Battletech, should tell you it was done by a corporate entity.
happening with every hooby 15-25 years ago was a "no-go zone" for popular people.
Video games, miniature games, board games, scify, fantasy, comics, anime, manga, card games, etc
Battletech was dead for decades till recently. I don't know what you're on about with that? Hell they still even make the old models and still have rules for them
@@mastermide77 The company that owns Battletech now is very woke, to the point they fired one of their best-selling authors just because he is conservative.
I am really honestly worried Henery Cavil is about to get "Witchered" in this Warhammer 40k TV series. I think he was sold a bill of goods about "executive control" over the show to get him on board and to get some people to "feel comfortable" about the Amazon Deal regardless of that we all know about Amazon and the way they treat IP's (wheel of time, Rings of Power etc.) because "Henry will save us and keep our lore safe." I'll say this, I doubt anyone ever thought Star Wars would be in the state it is in now. Even with all the Movies and TV shows, Disney has not made enough money to cover the cost they paid for Star Wars. People always thought Star Wars was too big to fail especially with Disney behind it. Time will tell; I could be wrong of course. Disney thought they didn't need Star Wars fans; Bad Robot didn't need Star Trek Fans either.
First season will be great, then he’ll leave and the woke times will begin…
If you believe a 40K show made today by Amazon will be good, you have more hope than most.
Recasts and resin, I'm telling y'all it's the way. Only buy the legit stuff if it's actually worth it, otherwise why deal with GW. "Well that's technically theft" yea, so is charging 100 dollars for one thumb sized figure.
Mate at this point the whole world is illegal 😂
I'd love seeing a video comparing their stock prices and price hikes, and the amount of sales lost compared to the increased price.
Buddy and I would could be considered "whales" in the GW world. We've been buying and playing since the late 2001. We both make very good salaries and live very comfortable lives now. He still buys every new edition for 40k and AoS, evey new board game they make and necromundo. I started slowing down when Primaris released and now maybe buy one model a year from GW.
I stopped because the prices keep going up, i can afford the prices even if they were 5x what they are now. But the price doesn't make sense for the product. I have explained as much to my buddy. That it's not about the dollar amount spent it's that the sticker price for the plastic doesn't make sense.
He just keeps saying that GW needs to ofset their costs, and molds are expensive and blah blah blah...
He even argued with me about GW's 50% PROFIT margin, which is unheard of in the world of manufacturing/ business in general.
People need to wake up.
Recently I’ve been getting back an interest in historicals (especially Warlord Games like hail Caesar, Bolt Action, and probably very soon Pike and Shotte). They seem to care more than GW
I jumped on the Bolt action train about when the 8th edition 40k abomination was bursting through the doors and smearing crap everywhere. I love the system, i love the models, i love the community. I wish you all the best with your new journey!
The increase in revenue goes up by a smaller percentage then prices increase, indicating fewer units moved. People forget that GW isn't too big to fail, they only became the biggest in the industry 20 years ago, less then half way through its existence, entirely due to things outside of its control in the form of the American industry collapsing and them filling the void. It also hasn't been the biggest for all that time, over the past 20 years, 4 of them saw FFG take their spot at the top and it was only a combination of factors outside of their own control that saw them lose that spot. This shows GW is not actually able to compete when people stop pretending they have no competition, which is why the rising middle powers in the industry are an existential threat to them, likely even more so then 3D printing.
I’m new here, started in autumn of 2020 because I needed a creative outlet or I’d go mental. The hobby has done a lot positive for me, but I do see the trends toward either failure or blandness. I’m trying to exercise my game design muscles by creating a small scale skirmish version of 40k that targets around 5-15 models per side. My goal is to make a game snappy and responsive to player input and much shorter in length, with story-driven scoring. The point is I am making this hobby work for me, regardless of what happens to 40k as a monolith. If even one person enjoys the structure I eventually come up with as a way to play with toy soldiers, I’ll be very happy.
I hate the average '40k fan' at this point.
People who complained about the setting feeling stale due to a lack of 'lore' 'progression' fly in the face of the core setting: a stagnant empire fighting unceasing and unchanging war on a galatic scale.
I miss when GW was aloof from its fanbase. Nothing is gained by me for having some lame piece of cinema parodying the setting.
GW isn't my hobby,im into the wargames hobby.
This hobby required reading skills and basic comprehension of rules at some point. Now, with content constantly being slammed in a youtube video for the "TLDR" crowd, we get dumbed-down rules all homogenized and turned into the same junk. "Oh its so complicated and convoluted, we need OPR!!1!!1" How many times have we heard that? Maybe accommodating our rules for the people who cant even read at a 4th grade level isn't a great move for keeping people interested in a hobby that is supposed to have depth. Now it's all flashy videogames, bright colors, and animation aimed at individuals with an attention span of 14 seconds. It's not for me, and it hasn't been for years. This game system really REALLY showed it's dumbing down with the 8th ed release and the NEW Space Marines with trash, unfitting lore tailored toward the mainstream, NOT Warhammer's actual fans.
I hope a new IP comes around and gives people a fun place to go
I just hope I live long enough to see it.
Trench Crusade
@@azrael1045 TC looks really cool, but it is not a great stand in for a setting like 40k.
People forget 40k isnt completely grim dark as TC currently appears to be.
Well said. If I wanted a normie, mainstream hobby, I'd buy a football season ticket. I'm happy for my hobby ro stay niche
A few people at my work were talking about 40k due to playing the Space marine 2 game. All of them were talking about how they liked Space marines as an army and were asking me to describe the others, they liked what I said about the Orks but were very unhappy with Drukhari and Chaos and one literally said "They should change them". These are the new fans we can expect to have :)
40k is dune,eternal champion (elric),2000 AD, lord of the rings,aliens,ww1 & 2 at its core
The Henry Heresy
@@Captain-Thievius Yep, our boy will go horus at this point.
That’s a good one, I didn’t think of that.
I ‘member when a box of 10 gretchin was only 18 bucks
Rogue Trader era Rhinos came 3 in a box for $9.99.
@@l0b0t59 The adjusted for inflation people would have a hard time explaining this one.
@@l0b0t59 During the Regan's administration.
The issue is Games Workshop is a public company; if they weren't, this wouldn't be a factor
If they weren't, they'd be dead.
@@mastermide77Yep. The release of Lord of the Rings back in the 90s saved GW. That's not hyperbole, it literally saved the company.
@@mastermide77 Disagree with this, Games Workshop became a public company in 1994, before it was private. This completely changed their incentive structure.
At best, had they stayed private, Games Workshop would have downscaled and stayed similar to Mantic or Warlord Games. Private means they don't need to justify profit to their shareholders on an annual basis.
40k and fantasy would have stayed niche with the possibility of the Lord of the Rings as well.
@BorninPurple witch actually sucks lol. With how big the game is now. There's still entire population groups that are unable to play it. My city of 400k people has two game stores. One gw, one 3rd party. I just spent $130 on trench crusades, knowing like 4 people who even know about it.
I despise that in order for me to support my local gaming store, I have to support GW directly as well.
Were it not for the people I have met, and shared so many games with, I would have stayed gone years ago.
I'm playing dropzone commander now and may try dropfleet. Don't touch GW now. Good memories though.
Crazy that everything you said was brilliant about 8th is the same stuff I like about 10th. Removing the indexes when the codexes came out was a wild self own in my opinion though. GW really need to hammer out how to do "games as service". Dying on the hill of "rules need to be a physical sales widget" is wildly shortsighted.
In the echos of the void...a voice crys out and proclaims i am GW, hold my beer
The American comic book industry (marvel, DC) did the samethings and it killed it. Raising prices on fewer people, bringing in wokies to write stories, need money you put out alternative covets or restart a book at a new #1, licence put to video games, etc... if GW doesn't learn that if you dont maintain the quality of the story and give people at least some value for their money people leave and don't come back
As a kid, I never comprehended that I would be just as interested in the business side of my favourite toy IP, as much as the toy itself
This is why I've somewhat moved over to AOS. It's unique and isn't losing what makes it itself, and has become wholly it's own outside of og WFB.
hobbyist to paypig pipeline.
They're going to ruin warhammer the same way wizards of the coast and hasbro ruined DnD, or the same way disney ruined star wars
The problem with that example is that wiz and starwars got bought out. 40k is still owned only by gw
@@mastermide77for now, but it wouldn’t surprise me if corporate sharks like Amazon and Black Rock were looking for a bigger bite
Nah they're not that stupid. The recent backtracking on the femstodes seam to indicate that they got the hint.
@@Kharmazov back track? They literally spent millions to put one in an animation lol
@@mastermide77 Indeed an in the most recent guide to warhammer released by the GW Custodes are again male.
I think north brought up a good point.
The old guard and new players who truly appreciate 40k for what it really is are what is bringing new players into the hobby.
But again as north says, alot of new players don't stick around.
As the old guard gets pushed out or just says "fuck this shit I'm out", who will bring in the new players
So, my take away is we need to short the company during one of the in between edition luls so that we can recupperate the money we spent on the marked up minis
Waiting for GW to go the way wizards did. Cut quality, try using AI art, every year remove content from products but charge more.
I do hope GW has lots of success with Amazon and normies.
The equivalent of superhero fatigue will hit them harder than a thunder hammer after they stop being in the zeitgeist.This time however there will be no greybeards to keep the hobby alive for the next generation. The "modern audience way" is a fickle mistress.
Isn't gw just filling in its gaps with its 3rd party material? Diversifying its portfolio with shows and video games
I just been writing my own wargaming system/setting , based on a Grim dark Ancient antiquity post bronze age collapse setting. My friends i been play testing it with seem to like it so far.
8th edition was one of the smartest move GW did. If you’re a 10-14 year old kid wanting to play the game, and presented with a load of number charts it can be a turn off.
The true grimdark in warhammer world are Games Workshop
I've only been around since 8th & I've already fell out of love with 40K. Maybe its due to my lack of dedication compared to old fans, or maybe it exemplifies just how radically the brand has been changing in recent years.
In any case, I don't really care about 40K's fate. I'm far more invested in its sister franchise, The Horus Heresy 2.0. Better rules, longer edition lifespan, better characters, more character personalization, more narrative drama, more room for lords of war, and little room for "new developments". It did get nipped in the butt with the Siege of Terra novels (Erda, Horus' altered death, etc), but now that they're finally finished the story, its very unlikely to be sculpted into something alien to me. Sure, the game gets less content than some would like, but that's the tradeoff for not being mainstream, and a caveat I'll gladly pay to keep it as niche as possible.
To use your bucket analogy, 40K and AoS are the two largest buckets under GW's wing, in which the bulk of the water is poured. But just below those are smaller buckets that catch some of the water leaking from the big two. HH, Middle-Earth, Necromunda, Warcry, Titanicus, The Old World, and so on. And while some of those smaller buckets have giant holes in them right now (Old World), allowing for minimal water retention, others like Horus Heresy and Middle-Earth have very few leaks. They're where fans go when they fall out of love with 40K or AoS, but aren't resentful of GW as a result.
And its kinda where I'm at right now. I see 40K almost in the same light as GW themselves, only instead of money, what I get out of it are new HH range releases. I no longer care for its fate, just as I haven't cared about any new or future content for Star Wars or the MCU for nigh a decade. There was a good year or so where I was upset & angry, but now, instead of trying to salvage that through a number of ulterior means (proxies, old rulesets, niche hobby groups, etc), I'd rather jump directly into a game & setting I can chew on without needing to change a thing. And it feels great. Better than 40K has, well, ever felt in the few years I've known it.
Only thing its really missing in my eyes, are Orks. If not for that, I wouldn't miss 40K too much.
I just don’t understand the business model of GW sometimes. I am fine with some of the mainstream moves of expanding their products and doing license deals, but then they also make their main products less accessible by raising prices constantly and churning through editions and codices. The worst parts probably being that they have to errata huge swaths of a codex even on release day in addition to the general rules bloat. I would probably feel better about price rises if I knew it was going to pay increases to the not so well paid line workers and designers to attract and maintain talent, but it just feels like greed when they do it.
38 yrs here. 13 as GW employer. 11 in Studio. 1995-2008.
Trench Crusade is free and grimdark.
@@judgecohen1373 And apparently woke.
@@Kharmazov Nope. Look a little deeper and you’ll see that is just a myth. Some goofballs tried to take over the community in the beginning but they’ve retreated back to their holes.
lol, i have some old metal hormagaunts from second edtiton that looks like the alien monster. with extra limbs with spikes. and there is a little more to the similarities of dune then just the imperium of man. that said i agree there is nothing wrong with being inspired and making your own story. Starwars was originally written in the Dune Universe and only changed because Frank told George no he could not use arakis. so spice became moisture and we had another big franchise we loved for decades till Disney ruined it.
Molds that have been around for decades have paid for them and the models should have gotten cheaper, and i fully agree with the cost lies. they do not like us and i do believe the future is not model driven. infact i would not be surprised if they go digital completely with toys, video games and movies and tv series.
I still have my little red book from 2007 and my spiral training book. with the how to paint models. how to run the academy.
Great video north!
by the time the hype dies down, Alternatives like One Page Rules, Trench Crusade and other classics like Battletech will be poised to fill the gap for the actual clientele, leaving GW with not a whole lot. GW cannot exist purely as an IP holder. Hype backlash is a thing in the mainstream.
Just because it is pleasant dies not mean their is no war.
T 37:39 The same was said about Star Trek, and look what happened.
42:03 Bud Light showed us the way ! ! !
GW can do whatever they want, 40k and FB are in my heart the way they were in the past. And I'll be always able to get to that world anytime I play it. I don't have to get into the new stuff if I don't like it (AoS). (the new edition isn't that bad btw, I might get into it after all).
In defense of 7th, it was a nice game system with good ideas that only Align Bligh could make armies for
I’ve got into the hobby last summer and to be honest I’ve never been artistic in my life played lots of spots an drink an work blue collar but the painting for me is an outlet that I find addicting an my gf supports it sadly I paint night lords so I see where people at frustrated I don’t even play the game
got the leviathan set for around 60 dollars. bought the stls before the box came out and pirated the books then printed the HOLE SET. the minis and books i could even make the box at my house and those cardboard posters
To be honest I try to support my Local store as much as possible but when the store owners/manager persuades you to play other games besides GW that tells you allot. I mean only reason most game shops stay afloat is because MTG releases drafts.
mean every bubble bursts eventually. specially when said bubble requires near constant levels of content injection to keep going. and relying on high cost projects for a spike is definitely playing with fire as weve seen last year with the likes of ubisoft just takes a string of bad choices and that stock is gonna come plummeting.
. . . The consumer base has the final say .
So, GW to me is the bigger gateway to the hobby but they're not the hobby. Either you get into 40k or fantasy, or you find a better game. I liked playing 40k for a year when i first started the hobby, but the game itself to me was too slow, too bloated and too gotcha. The turn order is a mess to me, I started to hate playing as the games would take hours and having someone move all units before getting to take a turn is ridiculous to me.
I started looking for new games after 8 months of playing. I looked into Conquest, which I like a lot but the scene in my area is sparse, and then settled on OPR. OPR is great for a fun game but the more you play it's lacking in some depth in areas but recent updates have kind of fixed that. Still, very fun game to play and great model line to paint. I've also gotten into CMON's A song of ice and fire which scratches that depth itch and the model line is good and the game is fun.
Beyond that we have so many more games to pick and choose from ranging from WWII in Bolt Action or silly things like Rumbleslam and Gaslands.
GW has made it clear that they don't care about their game, their setting or their fans so I'd much rather give money to games that do and are just plain fun to play.
100% correct take no notes
GW raises prices simply because they can.
Accommodate BOTH grimdark and "mainstream".
The Anazon deal give Cavill leverage . . .
No Cavill no Amazon deal.
Wait, where are the age of sigmar launches?
@@Raygun9000 what do you mean? The new 4th edition came out a few months back.
@ConfessionGang how does it effect the stock prices?
A while ago you said that 3d printers were gonna hit GW really hard and possibly lead to them losing a lot of their business, now you're saying they're gonna continue to make money hand over fist.
Which one is it?
In a perfect world, they will start selling exclusive 3d printed minis and STLs. Or they'll start putting printers in shops thus destroying the concept of "limited supply". But at the same time, the number of "exclusive" and "one of a kind" miniatures that you can only get in stores will have to increase in order to keep people hooked on "new" releases.
Both more people are turning to printers who have been into the hobby for a while or a long time. They get alot of money from new people who drop out after two years see it non stop just look online it's a common story. Sick of non stop changes to armies requiring you to redo lists, and models of you do any official events by the time you get that done there is another fix .
Good video. I shared with some PEOPLE.
dude its like marvel when they were going hardcore into woke and dei. they made alot of money at first but now look at the. same with star wars. they will lose its just warhammer fans are as bad as star wars fan they cant let go of it and continue to support. GW has been slapping the fans in the face for almost a decade and yet THE FANS WONT MOVE ON. serously why buy and play with GW rules and models. FING 3D print, play OPR, KOW, Conquest TLAOK, and etc. jesus you dont even need a resin printer for good minis now you can have an FDM.
Leave GW and support old warhammer, and other rule sets that ARE WAAAAAYYY MORE FUN. oh and those games i listed are completely fine with GW models and other models.
Mid IP, awful game, good models.
it's always the same story
I saw this coming two years ago and there was nothing none of us could do about it.
10-15 years? Oh you sweet summer child, try 35 years ago when I got into it😂
More moaning.
Here me out: it's just a game. People buy an army, paint and army, play the game, and then they don't need to buy anything else. I've built a 2000 point army, and now I don't need to spend more money. It doesn't need to be a LIFESTYLE. It's a fucking board game. Of course they get sales on a new edition.
Probably shouldn't use arch as an example of "the lore channel"