DYERS EVE Timing Finally Makes Sense!
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- Опубликовано: 22 окт 2024
- . **NOT THE 2,3,2,3.....2,2,2,2 DEBATE** ;) There's a video of James saying it's all 2's so that debate is over for me. This is about the timing of the main riff. Very difficult for me but now it makes sense. Have fun.
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Man, that RIFF is so good, no matter the tempo. So badass!
You need to record the entire song with you covering it. Sonically and and execution wise your recordings are amazing!!
Damn true, I realized it when he played the Blackened main riff, the tone and the mix was just off the charts
2:07 If Dyer’s Eve was on Youthanasia lmao
This comment is dead on! haha
hell yeah, and it sounds brilliant
Lol it does sound like Reckoning Day
It's weird how we all hear these things differently. I had no idea what you were even talking about for most of the video. I've never heard any perceived shift in timing or anything like that. Just straight off-beat rhythm. Then there are things that still throw me off that others have no issue with - like the timing in "Blackened" where it goes back to the main riff after the breakdown. Still keep messing that part up after all those years...
Same here
Yeah I literally never heard anything confusing about the beat either
Same here, I clicked on this video not knowing what could possibly be confusing about the timing of Dyers Eve. It's just a standard thrash/punk beat, it starts straight on "1" multiple times and the only possible thing that could throw you off (I guess) are the accents on the crash cymbal here and there... If there is any tricky song it's Fight Fire With Fire - for years the verse riff was kind of shifting on me because of the super strong accents and where the vocals are placed. But this and Blackened - no issue whatsoever and any alternative way of perceiving it never crossed my mind.
@@gergonikk Yea... until I learned Blackened on guitar I had always heard the riff wrong, then when I realized that the riff starts earlier than i realized, I couldn't hear it the way I did before. Like, ever again. Yea,, the riff after the solo kinda does that, but it doesn't confuse me, because the guitar riff doesn't change. The drums do.
Yeah that part fucks with your brain all because Lars added an extra 1/8th note. If playing guitar, you really need to just try to totally tune the drums out of your ears and focus on playing the exact same riff in guitar because that’s what it is, it never changes. And if playing drums you add an extra 1/8 note in the full and end up off beat. But yeah you need to practice it a lot and on guitar you really have to just focus on what you’re playing and resist the urge to fall back in with the drums on the switch up because it’s the drums that change not the guitar
That slowed down Dyers Eve sounds like something straight out of Master of Puppets
Sounds awesome, doesn't it?
Might have been at some point. Most of the riffs are from the early days
Sounded like megadeth to me
@@coscwyite yeah I honestly thought of megadeth too
Almost sounded better.... Is that ok to publicly admit?... jk guys, jk.....
James and Lars, what great songwriters!
And now he doesnt want to make songs with lars anymore
This and the Blackened video absolutely blow my mind
I played air drums to this tune for hours - even made half of a 90-minute tape with this tune over and over and over in 1989, when I was living with at home after my freshman year of college. I swore that when I was a Dad, my children would never be able to write a tune about me as their father with the same venom Hetfield did. Many hear the lyrics and think that its lyrics are so nasty whereas I am energized and inspired to be a Dad, if that makes sense.
Thanks for the insight.
I cant lie, I've never heard it like this, maybe because the rhythm guitar behind it is 'solid'/not confusing, or maybe because the drums come in at the right/'not confusing' time, unlike in Fight Fire, Battery and Blackened
Same here. I never had this issue with battery either tbh. But I used to have the issue with blackened until I learned how to play the riff on guitar. Now I can kinda flip the riff back and forth in my head as I listen to it. As far as fight fire, I STILL can't hear it correctly no matter how many times I listen. That riff just hammers the upbeat so hard
The guitar tone is amazing!
Dude slowed down white stripes beat Dyers Eve turns into a groove metal and it sounds sick
Dude, you are sick behind the drums!
The slow version with the straight beat actually sounds fucking sick though, I'd definitely listen to a full version like that
you're lying
Your channel is so unique, educational, fun, funny, amazing chops, enlightening, and thought provoking. I love it. I'm a new subscriber and man! What a breath of fresh one of a kind air. Thank You my man.
not gonna lie, i really wanna hear a full version of a slowed down dyers eve with the straight on beat, sounds like something off Load
Huh, strangely I was never confused by the timing of this song, even though so many other Metallica songs where Lars uses that damn offbeat crash have required some serious ear training before I understood them (and even so, some still throw me off, mainly Fight Fire With Fire).
Same 100%
FFWF is impossible to feel correctly for me lol
Every time you do these videos, I feel like there must be something wrong with my ears because I never notice these time shifts. Maybe because I dont ever count beats. Haha.
it is because there is no shift. it is just the riff, that changes to a variation. but it totally keeps up the beat and the 4/4 measure and the drums keep up the same basic pattern.
I've never heard it the way you hear it, which I find really interesting. Even after watching this video and hearing the riff with both a straight beat and offbeat, it still sounds the same to me.
Dude, thanks this breakdown. Eye of the Beholder and Damage,Inc. also have some quirky things going on that make me question my guitar ability. Nice Job
4:49 this version of the riff is essentially what comes in the song after the solo. Guitar plays a little bit differently there (riff in E with triplets) but as far as drums go, that's basically the same feel.
You mentioning on and off beats gives Lars flashbacks to RTL days when he didn't even know what an off beat is LOL
Everyone starts somewhere you don’t have to criticize him. It’s the past.
Thankfully Lars know how to write great music
@@yeetfeet1878 ok
I would think he doesn't even care, because 2 years after rtl, they brought up a masterpiece record that still is top notch in 2021. Lars was 23 at that time...
It’s all fun and games ripping on Lars until you realize you’ll never be even half as good as him when he wasn’t even at his prime or even a fraction as successful 🤣
Weird. It always made sense to me. Lars likes to hit the crash on the snare beat, but it doesn't sound like it changes at all.
FULL VERSION OF THE SLOW BEAT jeez that sounds so good 😂
Please do entire Fight Fire With Fire with counting because I still can’t figure it out!!!
Yes. If there's a tricky one out of all of them, that would be it IMO.
If you’re talking about the chorus it’s half-note triplets. The verse is on the downbeat (intro is dead giveaway) and they throw in an extra 2 beats or so in classic Metallica fashion at the end of each phrase - 4/4 (what...the...) 4/4 (hell is this ) 4/4 (world coming to) 4/4 (nuclear warfare) 6/4 (shall lay us to rest).
@@theopinson3851 The verse of Fight Fire With Fire is all upbeat, although I'll grant you the drums doing the stabs on the upbeats then coming in with the snare on the upbeat of the 4 is very confusing. Took me a lot of listens and play alongs to figure it out. If you try thinking of the verse as downbeat it'll all fall apart when you reach the pre-chorus riff and the chorus.
I have this same tempo-shifting experience with Fight Fire With Fire, right after the solo during the harmonic riff that James and Kirk plays together...
4:49 dyers eve with that drum beat sounds pretty cool
I never really heard that “change” you thought you were hearing. Always sounded straight to me.
I never heard it that way, but after you explained it, I can definitely see (or rather hear) how you could perceive it that way
Listening to the Dyers Eve's main riff slowed down, I've just realized that the post-solo riff section "I'm in hell without you" is a variation of that riff in E played at half-time feel. I thought those riffs were totally unrelated before. It's even more blatant when you play that part faster with 16th notes on the bass E.
Gotta admit, i couldn't take my eyes off your guitar playing, will have to watch again for the drumming.
I think i just learned about 2-3 new things in that riff that i had no idea about! Great vid!
Yes metallica video, keep em coming
I love this channel so much. I’ve always felt like an idiot because Battery, Blackened, and Dyers Eve trick my ear into swapping the the down and up beats, and for some reason I couldn’t unhear that. But your exercises snap me out of it. You are the man!
The slowed down version got a heccin grove to it I love it
I heard this switch when I first listened to it and it really perplexed me, so I listened to the song every day and I eventually figured out how it works. Glad I’m not the only one who heard this!
Video description was actually very helpful, thank you
Dyers Eve always gets my blood flowing. I just love that song.
i always knew there was some sort of wizardry going on here. great breakdown my man!
"maybe not concert tempo, let's say studio tempo" -- low key lars dig right there
uh no
That's what happens when you are too structured of a musician. Playing by feel can transcend all that confusion. As long as it's at a steady tempo it really doesn't matter if you follow the time sig method.
I mean, there's a huge difference between something just feeling/sounding good and trying to faithfully cover a song. Figuring out what's on the beat is kind of important. And dissecting the nuances of popular difficult songs people want to learn is important to get them down *right*.
I say this as someone who has been in a "salute to 80s metal" tribute band, a Rush tribute band, and an 80s dance band. You have to be able to play well with structure AND you have to be able to play well with groove.
I disagree, studying songs only helps you get things right, is these small details that make the performance worth it. Glossing over them and playing by feel often leads to stagnation and makes songs sound similar to each other
Are you a Corrosion of Conformity fan? Would love to hear you break down some of the drumming on the Wiseblood album.
I feel the exact same thing happens to me when I hear this, and also Battery. Great writing
When you choke the cymbals, the drums suddenly change to the onbeat on 1 and 3 ,then the snare goes back to the offbear whereas the riff keeps playing on the beat (accenting on 1 and 3). that's the tricky part. Another detail is that Lars counts ten, or five-five on the intro toms fill.
Can you just do a cover of this? You're teasing the hell out of us!
WOW! Never heard any of it, I just heard the straight forwardness of it and focused on the snare.
Guitar tone is on point.. but speaking of the song - i never really had any problems because i never count - feel the music baby feel it!!!!
Pantera - Heresy
I had a huge brainmelt as a kid on the introriff and when the song kicks in. I heard it onbeat and always struggled to play it. I still keep hearing it onbeat once in a while :D
Love your song breakdowns
I think Lars plays “semi-corcheas” (IDK how to say it in English, I speak spanish only) in the hi-hat: the first note is like a ghost note or ghost hits (watch Jeff Porcaro videos about Roxxana Shuffle) and the second note is played with accent (that’s why sometimes we listened to like a off-beat). Look at the Seatle concert in 1989, When lars plays Blackened, he plays the hi-hats in semicorcheas but putting accents in every second-forth-sixth notes.... I hope anyone understand my comment 😅
A very similar "messing with you" is done at the beginning or Spirts in the Material World by the Police.
Give this guy another 1.5 million subs! Amazing, fun channel.
man , crazy drum skills
These tracks here sound far better than many records that get released nowadays, haha.
Hehe. Thanks, I've been recording a long time now so I have a lot of pieces in place but I still feel like I should spend more time on mixdown. :)
That beat is a certified bruh moment.
Sometimes it's better to think first, then type.
@@that_robguy K
For me, I always listen to my gut. OR, in Metallica's case, my head. Whatever beat it wants to bob to, that's what I go-to. Keep rocking-on, dude! awesome vid!
I don't hear this "illusion". It sounded all regular to me.
Never heard anything tricky on dyers eve...now BLACKENED is a mind fuck when it comes to time signatures and structure
this sticks drop at the end was brilliant
That would be pretty great if a guitar teacher got behind the drums to show me exactly how beats landed learning a song. Or just explaining music concepts. Pretty great. I don't think even with this excellent explanation I am ever going to play this full speed though.
_"I don't have enough toms to really do it _*_justice."_* I see what you did there! 😉
Reall great video, I'm so grateful. Out of all Metallica riffs, this one always gave me the hardest time. The timing and the difficult, fast picking. Also, I always tried to do it 2-3-2-3. Anyway, I think this video will finally allow me to learn it. Thank you!
FUCK YEAH! you sound like Nick Menza playing Lars absolutely killer
Nothing about this section ever sounded off to me. Listening to it with the straight beat did not change anything for me. I guess I was always hearing it correctly. Of course, I am only a guitarist, so maybe I just never focused that much on what the drums were doing.
That guitar tone sounds fantastic btw
".. well, maybe not concert tempo, but studio tempo"
What a savage burn!
No matter how many times I listen I can’t get it... I’ve listened to dyers Eve so much that it doesn’t change what’s ingrained into my brain hahaha
The 120bpm sounds awesome
Damn I will certainly be learning this one on guitar
I didn't hear what you were talking about until you played just the drums and did the crashes, then my ear switched
Thanks for simplifying this
I think your ear might get fooled because Lars seems to be struggling with his set and lagging behind. James is always on top of his riffs and accurate as hell. The rhythm changes and twists are probably Lars' ideas and mostly accidents by origin - like the one in Blackened. James must've liked it so they kept it. If you listen to Lars' unedited drumming on live gigs and some behind the scenes clips, you can see what kinds of mistakes he is prone to. Not saying I don't like the twists - love the first four albums. It's just that after listening to Lars and his struggle with drums throughout his career, I'm pretty convinced this is the case.
I'm realising more and more now that the proper "drummer" in Metallica is James. Lars just follows him to keep himself in time.
Fun fact, apparently James has hardly any drums in his live monitor mix whereas Lars has tons of James in his ears, so you’re basically spot on.
I dont know about that. If Lars really followed James, he would be able to keep better time.
Did that realization come about after reading that article about the Gojira frontman trying James' in ear monitors with basically no drums in his feed that was trending a week ago?
Yeah, I once heared, that James has almost to none drums in his live monitoring and everyone is following him.
Don't know if it's true, but it would explain a lot.
I eye roll in your general direction.
Thank you, John Cusack.
Lars really was an interesting drummer, and gets massive points with me for being unorthodox during a time in hard rock/heavy metal where only precision and speed counted. No one wanted to go too far off the beaten path save for maybe 3 or 4 other big names - Lombardo for example. He set out to spice things up every chance he got, whether it was time changes, weird accents, or off-beats that caught you off guard.
Thats actually not a "mistake", it sounds "weird" cause lars plays a D - Beat pattern on drums (like City Babys Attacked by Rats by G.B.H. song but faster) and uses the double bass to accent the second hit on the drum kick that its in a back beat. This "mistake" happens on Battery, Blackened, Damage inc and Dyers Eve.
I have a different question. How long did it take you to get this guitar riff down? I can pick pretty darn fast on the low E string, but when I try it on the A string it’s like I’m a baby again. Is it just the same old deal of hours of repetitive practice? Thanks in advance!
Having the snare on the and ties the whole damn song together!! Kinda feels like it speeds up without spending up, I know trying to english music is a chore lol
I really like the tone of your drum
I know exactly what you mean, but I don't get this rhythmic illusion from Dyers Eve at all.
Fight Fire With Fire is the one that tricked me forever.
There's a brilliant example of this in their song Blackened too, after the crazy guitar solo. Same "main riff" but the drums shift to the off-beat. Great stuff.
To be honest I don't put much thought into the beat, I just hear it and it makes sense and play along to it. If it sounds good then I'm doing it right. Then again I'm not a drummer, I play guitar and bass. So kind of like what the guys themselves did back then. It's not like they really knew that much about time signatures and music theory they played what sounded the most metal lol
Never happened to me with this song. I heard something similar with Fight Fire With Fire, when I first heard it.
Great work bro!!
I never ever heard the snare as the downbeat in Dyers eve. In fact, I tried to hear it the wrong way in your demonstration but can't no matter how hard I try. I do however, still struggle with Fight Fire with Fire. Logically, I can see it on paper and play it to the correct time but always incorrectly hear the snare as the down beat when listening to the album.
Doesn't this happen a hell of a lot on Master of Puppets and And Justice though?
I think the illusion occurs because the riffs don't really have traditional loops in them, in the sense that they play on hesitation, anticipation and repetition variations between bars, making the riff seem to repeat, but not quite. I think that, as a whole, or ears get fooled by this type of playing. Doesn't the chorus of Master of Puppets have the same thing?
This never really confused me. The part in Lars's drum section that does confuse me is that strange little hitch crash-snare type fill he does at 0:43 and 1:08. I ALWAYS lose the rhythm there....
And of course, the verses where it's constant double-kick with no reference to the downbeat.
Same here. It doesn't completely kick me out of the rhythm, but it does a bit. And other than this particular fill nothing else ever made me troubled, the whole rest of that tune is straightforward and understandable to me. I'm fine with verses too.
Funny I never had an issue with this songs timing. Only the double bass lol.
Edit : just relistened to it, it's weird but I could definitely play that part on drums no issue. What really gets me is gojiras drumming. I can never understand for the life of me. I get Lars though lol
That's interesting, because I the whole time I couldn't tell what the confusing timing is he's talking about?
@@j_freed absoluuutely same, i don't get it lol
This reminds me of the intro to "Kickstart My Heart" by Motley Crue, always been a hot debate if the beat is on the 1&3 or the 2&4 (it's 1&3 if you ask me!)
Dude you are awesome, love this
Ok I have one for you, in the song run around from van Halen there is a drum off beat at the beginning where Eddie , god bless his soul , is playing harmonics before the lyrics jump in , I wanna know how Alex plays that , can you help ?
The speed kinda hides the groove, doesn't it? I actually love how the riff sounds when you slow it down.
But as Abaddon or Early Judas Priest Lars put an accent not only on hi hat but on the double bass triplet that makes the thing not only urgent but swing in a fast thing.
Tom hunting have that too
Fight Fire With Fire is the hardest one to hear properly because of the vocals being right on the on the 2s and 4s.
Check out Uncle Ben Ellers video on that one. It’s great.
The main riff isn't as tricky for timing as the verse, where the guitar moves to whole notes and the drums start the double kick roll. Somehow the snare feel switches between down and up halfway through and it messes with my head.
I can't get myself to hear it the wrong way that you're describing, usually I can though, like with the video about the drumming fuckery in Blackened
These are great videos
Mike, do you know how to conduct? Counting 4 time (or any time, really) with a conductor's movements is a great way to keep track of where the one and the downbeat are, even in very complex rhythms, and it's pretty quick to learn.
Yeah I started in orchestra actually but conducting and learning how to keep in time with a guy like Lars is not the same. hehe. :)
dude you got pure tekkers on guitar and drums!
Yes my man! Yes!
Amazing skills!! Great drumming and video!!🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯💯🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁
I don't know what you mean, but nice playing
I’m not sure, but my suspicion is that Lars noticed that the guitar began drifting outside of the accents on the third cycle of the riff, but it would all lock back together if he was able to hold steady with the double time beat, which he was (at least at the time). So I tend to agree with others here who are arguing that James is the one in control, which in retrospect is hardly surprising given the fact that he is clearly on another level of musical sophistication than Lars. But I give Lars full credit for his drum parts, right up until the Black album. Everything he did sounded great and Justice was a special example where the band took the rhythmic complexity to the farthest extreme. If only the production and mixing on that album had been left to the experts, it would probably be my favourite Metallica record.
I never heard anything strange in this riff. But the verse in Fight Fire with Fire still messes me up and the intro to Ride the Lightning (I thought the first drum hit was where the measure begun but it's actually the third note from the guitar where it starts).