I’d never considered that Leliana might be more than just human even in worlds where she didn’t die. I’m more inclined to believe that she’s got something watching over her, much like Wynne’s spirit.
It’s been a while since I’ve played Origins (slowly making my way through Inquisition Currently) if I recall correctly Leliana does not sing the lullaby until the Codex entry In Uthenera is found in the Brecilian Forest. While she claims she remembers an Old Lullaby it’s entirely possible to deduce she learned it from the codex. On the other hand I do think she became a sort of chosen guardian of Adraste’s Ashes in the Temple of the Sacred Ashes. The Guardian there is some sort of Lyrium Ghost if I’m not mistaken. He is defeated and the ashes need a new guardian. In the epilogue entries in Origins it’s mentioned Leliana becomes something like the guardian of the temple. The song In Uthenera is my favorite moment in Origins- I’m a sucker for elves.
@@satoriivy175 regardless i origins if you stay with her aka romance her she never follows you up to DAA which is weird. Leliana also said she will go to the temple of the sacred ashes. And when the game ends it is said ashe are no longer there so I would say she is the Lyrium creation of Andrate. I think this is the best explanation as far as I can see it. Tho I am no fan of DAI by any means of iaginations as we left the entire DAO storyline in dust to create a new half way finished plot.We could also say the red lyrium is not really coruppted in terms it is bad but it could be Lelianas power to batlle the curoption. All things are geting corupt and damaged all the time so we could say maybe red lyrium is the side product of that fight.. We also Know Dwarves cant be mages but in DAO in assemblly they are shown with staffs resembeling that of a mage so they could have created Lelina from the lyrium to protect the world on the surface. It is just thoughts of it. Another thing why I think Leliana is Andraste of lyrium is simple you cant do anything bad if she is around she always gets mad beacuse she has the way of thinking about what is correct or not. I guess we will fid out later on. I just wish we do not abandon the DAO plots for DA4 beacuse we wenture a way without turning back
I always play Leliana’s Song before Origins. I killed Leliana once, after romancing her of course. They also mention the death in Dragon Age 2 when Hawke meets her in the Viscount Keep, fans seem to forget about that Hawke: “Sister Leliana from Lothering? I heard you died. Leliana: “Perhaps the maker felt it wasn’t my time.”
yeah both the left AND right hands of the divine were in 2. Cassandra throughout, though, dealing with Varric, but yeah, Leliana, the assassin/spy of the Devine was DEFINITELY in Dragon Age 2 but only for a relatively short time, much like Tallis.. in fact Tallis may have been in the game longer lol
Joe Nesvick same! I know that a lot of the people in dragon age forums don’t like her for some reason, but I thought she was fun and I REALLY loved her dagger throwing move lol
I’ve never killed Leliana in Origins, so it wasn’t until a year ago when I joined Reddit that I found out about the lyrium ghost thing. The DA sub has opened my eyes to many things.
Elves might have created dwarves, or even just lyrium then it created dwarves. I don't think a certain someone doesn't see the rest of the races as people merely because of "elven glory". Humans and such may have literally not been around in the time of Arlathan, or been in a form even we would call animals. Perhaps the veil allowed them to prosper? I'm pretty sure Flemeth is Andraste possessed by/hosting Mythal though. There are too many on-the-nose hints about her being Andraste. Look for the parts about Andraste's daughters (her line only able to have women), the DAO stuff we can link to Flemeth. Do remember that the lore we find in game is not set in stone, and is often twisted by years of people retelling it.
seraphilight true. I am not a fan of the "Elves are behind everything" though, it lessons the other races and I like the idea that there's abit of truth to each races creation myth. I like the idea that the Dwarves were created by the Titans, there was some kind of Maker but It only created humans, the elves were spirits given mortal form, and I don't know about the Qunari but as long as it involves dragons.
I mean, the elves lived in a world where they could IMAGINE things into existence. I assume not all elves were mages, and that's how there was order with the mages leading. It was compared to Tevinter quite a bit. Didn't Solas have a "world of tranquil" comment about after the veil? Maybe they were all mages then, or at least able to affect things, idk. TBH, Dragon Age seems to be taking a "All gods are false, they were actually people" approach. One has to wonder how different a powerful spirit is from a god as well. It's possible all the other races, save elf, were literally animals that were "brought up" or modified by elves. Even when you'd consider them people by default, those who "created them" aka, uplifted them might not. That's the way those stories often go. We know little about the Qun and the race that used to be kossith, save for their attitude towards things. I imagine we'll find out more next game, as it should be dealing with Tevinter and Qunari.
Notsosmartguy YOUR USER NAME SAYS IT ALL JUSTLY WITHIN MOTIVE LELIANA IS SO DEVOTION DIVINE FILLED SHE’S ANDRASTE DESCENT? I KNOW NOT WHAT IS THE MOST BUSTER THEORY I MAY READ INSIDE THIS COMMENT SECTION
I don't think leliana can't age. Bioware just doesn't age people well. Look at morigan and alistair they don't look like they aged at all either. Hell loghain looks younger in inquistion than he did in origins
About the lullaby, I'm pretty sure Leliana mentions the song was sung to her by an elven woman after her mother died, maybe one of Lady Cecelie's servants who nannied her, since she was so little. Also I'd heard the theory that Leliana was a half-elf, but I always assumed it was her father who was the elf, since in Origins (I replayed it recently) she mentions how gratefull she was that Lady Cecelie kept her mother in service even after she became pregnant while unmaried. Leliana's mother was fereldan, but she was in service of an orlesian noble woman, not to mention human/elf marriages seem to be frowned upon in general. So yeah, I think she's elf-blooded, but it's the dad and not the mom
Cool theory but I think it's too far for me. I can get behind something wonky happening at the Temple of Sacred Ashes after you kill her. She becomes a lyrium ghost then, something with the last fleck of sacred ash, or intervention of a powerful spirit/god/the maker/Andraste, but extending that to "She was a construct the WHOLE time" is just about out of my suspension of disbelief and doesn't really jive with Bioware's typically well thought out writing.
I think she didn’t die in the temple of sacred ashes (if you kill her). She is just cured by the lyrium beneath the temple + the ashes’ sacred abilities. She passed out, was almost dying, but those factors revived her somehow.
If you kill her, you have defiled the Ashes with Dragon's Blood (Without Hardening her... hardening her first and you can make her just go along with it :P), which means you ruined the power in it. The Lyrium sounds like a close thought to how or why, but the Ashes are ruined if she was killed xD
@@raevmanigotnoskills5837 You sure? Some magical stuff gets even more powerful after getting somewhat corrupted (red lyrium is far more powerful than blue). I know one must use the taint on lyrium for it to turn red and the game gives you an option to use dragon blood on the ashes... but isn’t it possible that the blood enhances something of the ashes’ abilities?
Hold up. In Hushed Whispers shows that Leliana is resistant to the taint, not red lyrium. This is why she was used by Alexius to treat Felix, who was infected with the taint. Also, Cassandra's personal quest shows that Seekers are resistant to red lyrium, but this doesn't mean Seekers were sung into existence by lyrium. Next point, darkspawn probably don't go near titans because the song of a titan might drown out the song of an old god (currently Razikale most likely). So of course they won't go near a source of song that is not of the old gods, which is the song the darkspawn follow. It has nothing to do with lyrium, as lyrium can be corrupted. Leliana was not stabbed fatally in Leliana's Song, anymore than Morrigan (possibly) was in Witch Hunt. She was also taken prisoner, treated for her wound, and then raped and assaulted numerous times. The voice of encouragement she heard was of Dorothea. This is confirmed in the DLC. According to World of Thedas (which I don't trust) Leliana met Marjolaine when she was 16. So she was probably 18 in Leliana's song, and a little older than that in Origins. So figure 34 or so in Inquisition. She's not that old to begin with. Her "vision" could have been based on her own life experiences. Being betrayed, thrown into a dark dungeon, and raped would likely cause her mind to envision a dark place. It could have been a result of suicidal thoughts. Also, the Guardian seemingly calls bullshit on her vision and accuses her of making it up for attention. So it could be nothing.
she actually meets the city elfs mother in leliana's song. the city elf is about 18 to 20 in origin. so she's about 30 to 34 in origin...assuming the city elf was a little boy in song.
I know, which is why I wrote that I don't trust World of Thedas. But we don't know how old the city elf is in Leliana's Song or in Origins. I was just estimating she was around 24 in Origins, which would put her at around 34 in Inquisition. My memory of the city elf origin is a bit rusty, but the city elf could have been around 10 in LS, and 18 in DA:O, possibly even 16. I would estimate at most that if the city elf was 6 in LS while Leliana was 18, and then if the city elf was 20 in DA:O while Leliana was 32 (which would contradict the timeline regarding the Orlesian occupation of Ferelden), then that would still only make Leliana 42 in DA:I. It would still be possible for Leliana to look as young as she does. But for comparison, Anora is definitely 30 in DA:O. The impression I got from Origins was that Leliana was younger than Anora.
Personally my take is that she is just about fanciful tales if not killed, but aspects of her tales come to life if she is killed (thus Trespasser slide), but a future game that addresses things will have enough fanciful things happen to her that the choices/journey paths along the way won't matter as much to the core narrative. One way or another, and at whatever pace, her stories/songs will come to life. Just as I tend to think that one way or another, *a* Hawke will fall 'into the abyss', whether in DAI or a later title. Hawke will also learn to fly, as Flemeth suggests. The magic returning to Thedas will affect everyone, and everything. Some sooner than others. Some people being already something special, while others become something special or even more special than the first set. But the whole world will change (into a more full/non-Chantry calendar 'Age of Dragons'?) and DAI is about the first inklings that it is inevitable.
I don't think Leliana was already in her 30s in Origins. The wiki is also very strange in terms of age. I would say Alistair is 24 Leliana is 22 Morrigan 24 Zevran 23 Ogren 43 Wynne 64 Sten 38 Those are my asumes! They are not legit.
The only thing that bugs me is that there is a specific skill you can learn as a rouge where you play dead that I once used to enter into a stalemate with flemeth in da1. I had always assumed she survived because she was a rouge...and she always lives in my play throughs...I love her more than alister she is too awesome. But it would have been cool if the developers had used this approach. They could have been like, well she out played the hero of fereldan, using her cunning...
Spencer Dean I've only killed leliana once on a separate save just to get the reaver class for my main file. I dislike killing her. My personal cannon has her as the lover of my hero of fereldan. I've honestly never thought she would be headless and dead. But yes you are right.
Sometimes you'll get one of the Special/Critical Kill animations where your opponent gets beheaded. Apparently, a lot of the people who killed her got that animation. I didn't on my evil play through.
@@Akurokuma there is no sense in animation random roll, while you can create illusion of yourself (stealth) as a rogue. And Leliana is a master spy/bard herself :))
I'm not so fussed about Dorothea's aging. The first image is her before she became Divine. It's like being elected President ages the hell out of you...
My theory is... Leliana is andraste. She hears the maker, as she claimed in origins. Andraste heard the maker, even being referred to as the bride of the maker. They say andraste will be reborn. My theory fits with the lore. And gods can assume mortal form, look at fen'harel/solas.
@@lgchamp1999 still not entirely out of the question! It's implied that there are multiple copies of FleMythal if she doesn't get killed in Origins, at least for a time. And Flemeth says she carries PART of mythal. It's entirely possible that the remnants of Mythal are shattered parts, and that Andraste was one, all while Flemeth/Her ancestors held another piece
Sandal is definitely June tho. Whether a host, June pretending to be daft to escape Solas, or June trying to put himself in another body and fucking up.
In DAI theres a conversation with Josephine and she says that she knew leliana years ago. But then continues the conversation saying that shes "changed so much"
I suspect Leliana is an unknowing agent of a titan, and maybe she was created at a very young age and grew up to be the person she is. Plus her specialization is Bard, while others can learn it and use it, lyrium is known to sing to people and though not magic(like Valta's not magic, and Sandal's not enchantment) it seems to fall into the category of another power entirely. It is my belief that all the specializations in Origins had significance, Morrigan learned to Shapeshift which is an ability tied to the fade that Flemeth(Mythal) taught her, Sten didn't have one because as a Qunari he lacked individuality but can gain one by getting closer to the Warden, Wynne is being kept alive by spirits which allows her to share the healing with others, Zevran is an assassin(simple enough), Oghren has issues with anger that he allows to fuel is combat potential, Alistair was trained by the templars(and can use his abilities without lyrium), and finally, Leliana who uses songs in battle might seem a bit strange because not everyone that uses songs creates magic after all.
There is also a conversation i ran in to in Orzemmar or the Dalish camp that i encountered ironically shortly before watching this video between Leliana and Wynn Wynne: It is sometimes so hard to believe that you have been through so much, at such a young age. Leliana: I think I look younger than I am. Wynne: Yes... yes, that is possible. When I was your age I was just about ready to take on my first apprentice. Wynne: In hindsight, perhaps I should have waited a few more years. I was arrogant, my confidence bolstered by my youth. Leliana: It is so hard to imagine, seeing you now. Wynne: Oh, I've had some two decades or so to grow mellow. Believe me, back then I was quite... prickly. Leliana: So you are like a fine wine, yes? Losing the raw edges over time? Wynne: I suppose there is some truth to that analogy but dear Maker, I do hate being compared to wine. Or cheese. Wynne: Especially cheese. There seems to be several small party banters that help back your theory of Leliana not aging
Leliana has premonitions, that is why she had strong feeling to follow The Hero of Ferelden. Her visions or dreams are important. Leliana stood on a peak where she saw an impenetrable darkness, and there was a noise a terrible noise. She says that the darkness consumed everything, and when the storm consumed the last of the sun's light she fell, and the darkness drew her in. When she woke Leliana went to the chantries garden. The garden was dead like before but that day she saw a single rose that bloomed on a dead bush.This was in DAO ( keep in mind ) The dream is total darkness .. It depicts what will happen.. And Leliana has seen this, her own death.. In your heart shall burn. When Leliana is captured by Alexus at the end, her last moment before she is slain she sees the Inquisitor and Dorian conjuring a portal. The last of the light consumed by darkness. But when she awoke, there is hope.. A single rose...The only survivor... If I'm right then Bioware has planed this all along .
Shit.. Yes in Hushed Whispers.. Damn . TY Sandal prophecies "One day the magic will come back - all of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see." So I think that Sandal is like what Valta has become.. Touched by a Titan. Titan, I believe can see parts of the future but not all, and in pieces like a shattered mirror. The prophecies can be tweaked or reshaped . Sandal was nearly right but solas did not succeed. Well not yet. Pantheon and the Titans were at war once, and perhaps they still are? We may have to choose a side soon..
Just want to add as a rebuttal for Leliana's visions, that at the end of Origins; if Leliana is hardened, and you tell her you don't believe she ever had any visions, she coyly admits to making it up and says that "it makes for a good story, though". I forget the exact wording, but remember having that conversation with her on my canon run through; and found it again while looking through her dialogue file on the PC version a couple years back.
@ darkdesigns .. It's been to long since I've played DAO. I need to touch up.. But for now I Google lol. When Leliana tell her vision, the HoF can reply " The chantry says that the Maker has left us ". Leliana replies " He's still here, I hear him in the wind and the waves. I feel him in the sunlight that warms my skin. I Know what the chantry says, but what should I believe, what I feel in my heart or what someone tells me" From what I can remember if you deny her vision, or harden her, then yes she succumb to scoffing. Or she's a bard and is good at telling tales.
When player saves Leliana from Alexius's prison in DA:I, she looks very old, while Alexius sent us in future only a year ahead. I was always curious why she got old so quickly. Then I just thought developers made her look old instead of drawing scars from tortures.
I think Leliana is a real person unless you kill her. If that happens then whatever has been guiding her makes a new body for her so events can continue. I feel something is definitely leading Leliana in her thinking. But I suspect it doesn't speak with a real voice but through more...interpretive methods. The voice in that dlc is a real person who maybe, also, is being guided.
I always liked this theory. The idea that she is a lyrium ghost either way, I prefer this honestly. The thing is, I don't like her disappearing into a flock of crows or whatever. In my DA:I ending, Liliana became a shoe salesman in Orlais training her replacements and new Inquisition spies. What better place for her than retirement with powerful political connections living in Orlais. Leliana is a one lady army whether she lyrium ghost or mortal.
Honestly even thought it seems it I don't think her being a lyrium ghost really constitutes a "retcon", seeing as the death still happened it's just been explained away with a convenient explanation. It's be a retcon is it wasn't even eluded to. That being said I don't think the lyrium ghost thing even constitutes a deus ex machina, I think there's every reason why Leliana should have been the one to become one. She has some connection to something, whether that be a Titan, the Maker, or some Spirit is uncertain, but it still stands Leliana does believe herself to have been given divine direction and the rose on the dead bush gives us all the indication we need that at the very least something is watching over her. It stands that regardless of anything, from the moment we first meet her, Leliana was planned to be special.
It is a neat theory but I always thought be more probable that she, like Wynne, was saved by a spirit. If the Warden killed her anyways. Some may say well, Leliana isnt a mage, but (Asunder spoilers) neither was Evangeline yet the spirit saved her. Though, it was through Wynne? So no idea. Maybe Leliana has some slight magical ability she isn't aware of. Just my personal head cannon to explain it.
I tend to go with the standard that if killed by the Warden, she became a ghost after that. Maybe she had some odd sensitivity before that which contributed to her becoming a ghost. Also on her intent as Divine, I think her intended goals right from when she first met the Warden would remain, though affected by her experiences and the emotions she has encountered. It goes back to how Spirits can be affected, like how Justice became Vengence due to Anders' anger.
5:00 crap, I never realized that she had not aged at all! Even when playing both the dlc and the main game, i did not think to question the age difference!
If we look at character's physical appearance, I feel obligated to note that Alistair and Morrigan don't look older either, and Loghain almost looks younger than he did in Origins.
The Leliana's Song dlc took place about two years before Origins. That's why she's barely aged by the time the Blight rolls around. As for Mother Dorthea, we don't see her for 12 years, and a lot can happen in that much time. As Divine, she is the religious leader of a continent, in a position of power and responsibility. A job like that is stressful under normal circumstances, let alone the added stress of the Mage-Templar War. Of course she looks ancient in comparison to when she was merely the head of a single town's Chantry!
you know, I started digging at reading this comment. I could have sworn that Leliana had told us during DA:O that she spent longer than this hiding in the Lothering chantry but yeah, Leliana's song happened in 9:28 Dragon (according to the Wiki) & DA:O happened 9:30-31 Dragon so, you're absolutely right... there was only 2 years between the two. Thanks for pointing that out
It's interesting to think about, especially given the way she up and disappears, but I don't think it's true. If she dies in the temple of sacred ashes, then maybe from that point. But that said, she's in the temple with ashes that can supposedly heal all ails right in her vicinity, and since the thing she is killed over is corrupting the ashes, they hypothetically might be exposed to the air to do that whole corrupting thing. Maybe exposing her to them. So there's potentially canon reasons why she may have come back to life. (Also, magic and spirits exist in this universe, so... Yeah.)
Well there is a vid bout Cullen, there's a video bout Leliana, so make a vid about the most awkward but yet still cute, Ma girl Josie. I mean we don't know much about her but I have a theory that is so real (lmfao it's not) that her youngest sister Yvette is actually an... ARCHDEMON
I agree with this theory and this makes me think about the ashes guardian, he was always protecting the temple and I began to think that he may be also affected by the red lyrium
I think it makes sense in the specific worldstate of Leliana dying in the Temple of sacred ashes. Saying that Leliana might survive because the mountain on which the temple is build is full of lyrium, is quite a good explaination. Oghren says that the mountain is full of Lyrium, when you take him with you. It also explains the long-surviving knight/ghost who protects the ashes and all the other ghosts who riddle you. Considering, that the whole mountain is full of lyrium it's surprising/lucky that the explosion in Inquisition was so small. Anyway saying that Leliana is Lyrium-ghost does make sense in this scenario and since she isn't needed anymore if she is not Devine also makes sense (to some degree) for her to vanish... because after Trespasser we see all our advisors again... even Leliana as Spymaster no matter if she is Devine or not (I don't know how it is otherwise). Anyway, great Video!
In inquisition, the quest where the inquisitor and dorian are flung into the "future", Lilliana aged a lot! she was like elderly. However true it was, also assumes Solas was going to be destroyed is tough to believe.
But what about the fact, that Cole - always puts honey into Lelianas tea? To quote 2nd volume of "The world of Thedas": One of the Maker's commandments, that magic should serve man rather than rule over him, was as honey to the souls of the downtrodden of Tevinter, who lived under the thumbs of the magisters. ^ - may that be why Cole is adding honey to her tea? Because Andraste is serving man rathen than ruling over them?
Surely it makes more sense for Leliana to have been saved by a spirit in the temple during/after her "death" and needs to remain with Leliana to keep her alive?
The voices tell Leliana "fight for those who can't" The Titans can't fight for themselves can they? From our only encounter with one we fight it's supposed followers and a "guardian," but that's it. Wild, I thought the Titans song theory was a bit much at first but it's starting to make alot of sense.
Lilly could have been revived by a mix of the lyrium in the mountain(ogrhen mentions sensing it when you approach the urn) and the dragon blood that was all over her from killing the drakes and dragonlings throughout the ruin seeping into her wounds. Both are known to have restorative properties and to make those that consume them hear voices. Plus dragons are naturally resistant to the blight(which most likely means their blood is as well), so that could explain why she has such a high resistance to red lyrium. I tend not to believe the “elven gods reincarnated” theories because the only one known to do this is Flemeth and her method is less of a reincarnation and more of a willing possession anyways, so I really don’t think it’s the case with Lilly.
That last message never made sense to me. It's literally the biggest wtf moment because there's no explanation and I wonder if it was done just to mess with us or because there was really something behind it. I adore Leliana. She has a spot in my heart, so much so that I cry every time I see her "die" in the future. But this made so much sense that I think I'll cry again XD
Ghil good theory and it may or may not correlate with mine, So either She's an Spirit Abomination(Has a Spirit Guardian) or is an Spirit Herself. But I have a Theory that the Elves and Humans once were immortal how because they began as Spirits of Wisdom and War, While Dwarves and Qunari are the only Races that are made of the world the Earth and the Sea respectively those are the only Mortals/Natives of Thedas, Which is why they don't have "Gods" their God is the World, Elves and Humans are the way they are by abiding by their nature and trying to return to the state they were once in (Magic/Spirits="Gods"), Well also explaining why Dwarves and Qunari don't think highly of Magic because they aren't connected to it they were created from Thedas itself (Nature) that's their home (So they aren't bound by Magic/The Fade their bound by the Laws of Nature). While Humans and Elves seek to return to the "Golden City" in other words were they originate from is the Fade/Beyond their hostile invaders of Thedas (Those bound by the Laws of Magic and all of it's limitations). Which is why the Titans "The Pillers of the Earth" IE "The Natural Guardians of Thedas" attacked they didn't want these hostile spirits turning demonic because of the Elven "Gods" bring strife and conflict to the World so they attacked first to save it. If Spirits can become Mortal why not vice versa or way back in time they did just that and stayed Mortal?, How through Blood Magic, Rift Magic and Both kinds of Lyrium. Lyrium is known as the "Waters of the Fade" what if it's literally water from the Fade? So the Qunari are a mix of both worlds Seas clashing together which would explain their violent nature because their a mixed species by blood and soul both coming from "alien" forces (Why they have "Magic" but hate/despise it too, The Qunari are dual-natured having been conflicted from within since their origins, Which Corypheus did say to a Qunari Inquisitor that their species was a mistake. What if he's right?). Also Dwarves can gain "Magic" too, But what I'm saying is there's two sources of Magic one is from Thedas and physical that's the "Magic" that created the Titans their vassal species the Dwarves and the Qunari and that's the "Natural Magic/Law of Thedas" IE Their the only true Natives of Thedas. As for Humans and Elves they come from the other source in the other world IE the Fade/Beyond, From the Golden City corrupted "Black" by the "Taint" when Spirits became Demons/Mortals by "Pride"(Solas? Solas is Elvish for Pride.) the corrupted version of the Spirit of Wisdom and the Demon of "War" the corrupted versions of the Spirits of Will and Peace those Humans and Elves in my theory are actually Spirits turned Demon turned Mortal through the "Sin of Pride". Humans are Will, War and Peace. Elves are Pride and Wisdom. Dwarves are the "Stone"/"Soul" and only pure native species to Thedas connected to the Titans "The Pillers of the Earth". The Qunari are the Seas a mix of "Magic/Soul" and "Nature/Blood" as the "waters" of both "worlds" clashed. But now all of the Races have intermixed/strayed from their natures/paths and have become a mix of Blood, Soul, Magic, Nature and Will, Pride and Wisdom, War and Peace creating "Chaos" The Dragon Age.
Well in DA:I there is a conversation with Dagna where she states Lyrium is alive, so I guess that could help explain it. Not to mention the introduction of Cole where a spirit merged with a body that wasn't possession, so I guess it could be possible. Maybe Leliana was the spirit incarnation of Andraste that merged with lyrium to create the person that is Leliana?
@@briarrosegael2015 and it is implied that Solas did this as well. the old elves, and their lost descendants (Spirits) seemed able to choose form at will. what Cole and Solas did was a step further however as they made their bodies completely real. In Asunder Cole was always struggling to keep his body physical, but as more people came to believe he was real, he became more real, until *He* believed he was real, and became fully corporeal.
Wait, I have an addition to this theory, if Leliana is a Lyrium ghost/has been made by a Titan and in this version and will be recalled when needed, it is possible that she is a reincarnation of Andraste. What if Andraste herself was created by a Titan? What if the Maker is really a Titan? Why do Andrastes Ash's have healing powers, is it because she is made from lyrium?
I loved all the dragon age games myself... I admit, the first two years DA2 was around, I HATED it, but eventually warmed to it and now I love all the games, and their DLCs
Either Leliana aged very well between Origins and Inquisition or there's something very strange in there... I keep wondering why she's not mined for Lyrium if you go face Alexius.
it says on the dragon age tapestry thats when the warden kills her, “she is left for dead.” she may have fallen unconscious and was saved by flemeth or whoever took the sacred ashes (they vanish when chantry members return to the temple and find no urn).
Interesting! I've never thought of her as a lyrium ghost but I have thought she may well be a goddess...what if she's actually Andraste? :D She could be part Elf and be one of the old elven gods....Maybe we'll find out in the next Dragon Age game. :D
First video I have ever seen on this channel and that "Are you ok?" made me backtrack and ask myself, Am I ok? It took me off guard making me think about my life and the choices I made
I never considered killing Leliana in DA:O. In Awakening, Justice hears the song of the Lyrium Ring. If Leliana heard the song of the corrupted red lyrium, wouldn't she have mentioned it in inquisition?
Not related to the theory, but when I read that note in In Hushed Whispers, it made me connect something. We know from Origins that not every recruit survives the Joining. Some die from drinking the Darkspawn blood. So...what if the ones who survive it are the ones with the natural resistance to the blight? As a further theory...Leliana is able to stay around because of being around so much lyrium in the temple of sacred ashes. Oghren says that the guardian is able to remain there because of the great amount of lyrium. Sandal was discovered, wandering the Deep Roads, where lyrium is mined. And templars get their powers from lyrium. Red lyrium talks to you, makes stuff float etc, when you're near it. But apparently regular lyrium has this to a certain extent too. Bianca says lyrium is alive. That red lyrium is lyrium that caught the blight. So...what if when you're around so much lyrium and die, you become it in some sense?
was watching sfdebris continuing his da2 review on his website using vimeo, after watching that i went directly to youtube.com , i haven't watched anything dragon age related on youtube for months, maybe over a year, this was in my reccomended list. yay data tracking.
I imagine the only thing the writers had in mind when making Leliana in DAO was to write a religious rogue bard with a dark back story. I bet they didnt imagine this same Leliana would turn out to be an even bigger mystery than Morrigan.
I have heard this theory before and I don't really like it. But I have to admit it makes a lot of sense of all the inconsistency's in Dragon age. I don't want it to be true
Very interesting theory. In my oppinion a bit to tin foil and conplicated... I'd say that with everything about darkspawn, the fade, spirits and the elves and the Vail that we learn in Inquisition and Traslspasser DLC, I would imagine Leliana is a special human. Not magical by her own wish, but watched over and helped by a spirit. As well as maybe having a little conection to magic but that it hasn't manifested really. She could have elven roots but in the end, just a human.
tbh it would be more believeable to say Leliana is either Andraste reborn or bonded (unknowingly) with Andraste's spirit. We see in Inquisition a spirit that takes the shape of the Devine but its never found out for certain if it was her spirit or aother spirit presenting itself as her. If thats possible then why not Andraste? She could be the reason of Leliana's hearing of voices and getting visions, guiding her what to do. I mean... she wouldnt be the first person to have such bond. Take for example Flemeth, Wynn, Anders.
Leliana does decay in the future timeline, whether she is a ghost or not. Maybe it's because of the experiments, the blighted blood or because she mimics what would have happen.
i thought the sacred ashes rezzed her? i recall oghden saying the ashes was infused with potent lyrium, so that could be the real reason behind how she came back. not that the ashes were "blessed" or "magical" like any andraste follower would like to have anybody believe.
But you only have to kill Leiliana if you DEFILE the sacred ashes (it's how you unlock Reaver) and she's already in your party. She and Wynn will both go hostile.
What if she's similar to Cole? A spirit taken mortal form. Maybe a spirit of secrets found the dead Leliana and was so fond of her that it essentially took over her role in life. It would explain the resistance to Red Lyrium at the least I think.
If in the case where your warden kills Lilianna in the tomb of sacred ashes, and she comes back in 2 and inquisition, what if she is like Cole in that she is a spirit that possesses her body as she lays dying. It is possible that as the Warden left her for dead and in her dying moments she cried out to the Maker and a spirit heard her, perhaps one of compassion and he/she possessed her and then worked through the memories of being killed and embraced her more human nature to where she embodies the real Lilianna. Could this work better than that of being a recon?
I'd have definitely preferred that (unless they actually take the time to explain the whole lyrium ghost thing and make it sounds plausible in future games) but I guess they'd have had to make a second version of her dialogue where she is weirder and kind of off, since all of the people possessed by benign spirits undergo some personality change, even the ones that still have their souls in there with the spirits, and Cole obviously was way more extreme.
I suspected that Sketch was perhaps an ancient elf, or descended from their ranks and was sent out to spy or gather information. But this is an interesting take as well.
its actually quiet simply Leliana if she is killed in origins or left to die in lothering something akin to a wraith her desire to help and protect people turned her in to a spirit that used lyrium to give herself shape and if she survived origins then she could have died between the events of origins and dragon age 2 and had the same thing happen or she is a half elf and naturally ages slower
Interesting - It would also explain why Leliana (despite having all the skills to be very successful on her own - she is a great spy, she knows how to defend herself and she's also a great performer so she can make a living without problems!) latches on to powerful people, she might need a kind of "anchor" in the world and she comes to reflect her anchor's believes (hardening or unhardening her, letting her kill without a thought or showing her that compassion isn't always overrated!) Hell, I would like this to be true very much because that means we will probably see her again and again (if she doesn't age!) in futer DA-Games, not to mention that this would make for great quests (uncovering where she comes from etc.) :) ps: I would love more "strange" companions in the future (I might not have liked Cole much, but the idea behind him? Damned, that I did like! Just like Shale and Wynne with her spirit!)...as long as they don't hide it like Solas (damned, you took my arm you bastard!)
Well she's very much DA's Liara (Liara is even technically in MEA and there's ways she could be in a next game). Long life, long youth or potential of effects of youth, and carries on minor to major relevance in plot.
Not sure about the "construct" part. While doing Varric's quest, Bianca, the dwarf not the crossbow, explains that red lyrium is lyrium with the blight corruption. She goes on to relate that only living things are susceptible to the blight. In Awakening, Justice explains that he can hear the music from the lyrium ring. I am more curious to find out if Andraste had a connection to Solas.
Ageless? You think? if we look at Leliana's Song which would be some fifteen years before Inquisition then she was quite slim with Doretheia having to be somewhere in her forties to be a revered Mother. In the main game Leliana looks to have aged a little, gained a little weight or muscle. Come Dragon Age II she looks very slightly bigger again, and her voice had aged. And in Inquisition she sounds older still, more mature, and looks like she had lost a little weight, gotten a little older. The theory would definitely hold true if Leliana was killed in the first game, but looking at her background, her history, it would seem too detailed, too much for her to not be a proper human.
No theories needed to call her fake. She tells you she is a liar in Origins and is proud about how good she is at being a liar, if you simply talk to her enough to hear her story. She enjoyed being a spy and a thief, betraying people's trust. It was exciting to her to be a Bard and what it entailed. Being a phony was her major profession for her early adult life.
I believe that leliana is the reincarnation of andraste. It’s heavily hinted at in dragon age origins. Only andraste could hear the maker. Second, the blight was most likely created by the elves who killed or corrupted a titan, so the golden city could have been a titan, or maybe the maker was a titan.
History of Dragon Age Origins: that's slot of darkspawn daii: god fucking dammit Anders Inquisition: WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ooooooooon This is how dragon age works
I'm not sure what constitutes evidence for a theory like this when the writers have been so willing to retcon anything whenever it's convenient. It's hard to know when they're dropping seemingly-incongruous hints as opposed to just changing history (or making a run-of-the-mill continuity error).
While I do not follow the tin foil hat theories...Leliana could be a reincarnated Andraste. Remember that in DAO the guardian tells her that only Andraste ever heard the maker. But I agree that is pulling at straws, although it would explain a few things. If i were to create a tin foil theory on her, I'd mix in that there was a Leliana, who died; she was resurrected by Lyrium/a Titan which happened to have memories of Andraste mixed in; which caused her to seem like she is mental and suddenly pious.
I could have sworn the fan consensuses was that if she is killed then a fade spirit (possibly of faith) inters into the shrine and rebuilds herself in Lilianas image, as the other spirit of faith did for Justinia. In DA:O Mages will note that the fade is weak from all the lyrium in the area.
As fun as this theory is... the truth is they wanted to bring back a favorite character (in this case Leliana) back and had to figure out a way they could with some kind of explanation. Will it have some greater meaning in the next game, I doubt it. Remember Origins was expected to be a one off, that is why we have so many origin story's and why so many companions could die it the game. They hadn't planned on having a continuation after Dragon Age Origins.
I see the appeal of all this theory crafting and digging into lore... But I'm incredibly certain that Bioware did NOT put this much thought into their game.
+Ghil Dirthalen you just got a new sub I always thought something was odd about liliana even in some of the novels but I could never put my finger on it and I dragon age origins i'am pretty sure there was neat dialogue with Liliana and shale in the party
Ravens are related to Morrigan and therefore Flemeth. If the Old Gods are the Grand Dragons, then what if the awake Queen of Dragons is actually the lone female: Razikale, and what if her mortal form is Leliana? Dragons are resistant to the Taint, and Razikale apparently is the Oracle equivalent among the Olds Gods.
When I saved the mages, I saw lelianas future-her who was so disturbing old, her skin looked like it was already dead. so I dont know what to think about this " she might not getting old" thing.
I know this is an old video but I wanted to add somethings. Idk If she is a ghost or not but,I believe thier is more going on with her than we know. If you ask her to travel with u she saids it would blind her and every agent is her blades and knife but, if you look around most areas you can see her crows and they look very unique. Almost like they have red lymerm coming out of them
It is clear that Leliana was actually just a bunch of crows in a trenchcoat.
*chokes on her chow mein*
Skrimyt I'm so glad I romanced her
So, Sera was right!
So wen you fucked her you was actually fucking crows...
Well, Ygritte did fuck a crow, and she didn't regret it! (Stupid GoT reference)
I’d never considered that Leliana might be more than just human even in worlds where she didn’t die. I’m more inclined to believe that she’s got something watching over her, much like Wynne’s spirit.
It’s been a while since I’ve played Origins (slowly making my way through Inquisition Currently) if I recall correctly Leliana does not sing the lullaby until the Codex entry In Uthenera is found in the Brecilian Forest. While she claims she remembers an Old Lullaby it’s entirely possible to deduce she learned it from the codex. On the other hand I do think she became a sort of chosen guardian of Adraste’s Ashes in the Temple of the Sacred Ashes. The Guardian there is some sort of Lyrium Ghost if I’m not mistaken. He is defeated and the ashes need a new guardian. In the epilogue entries in Origins it’s mentioned Leliana becomes something like the guardian of the temple. The song In Uthenera is my favorite moment in Origins- I’m a sucker for elves.
The maker*
@@satoriivy175 regardless i origins if you stay with her aka romance her she never follows you up to DAA which is weird. Leliana also said she will go to the temple of the sacred ashes. And when the game ends it is said ashe are no longer there so I would say she is the Lyrium creation of Andrate. I think this is the best explanation as far as I can see it. Tho I am no fan of DAI by any means of iaginations as we left the entire DAO storyline in dust to create a new half way finished plot.We could also say the red lyrium is not really coruppted in terms it is bad but it could be Lelianas power to batlle the curoption. All things are geting corupt and damaged all the time so we could say maybe red lyrium is the side product of that fight.. We also Know Dwarves cant be mages but in DAO in assemblly they are shown with staffs resembeling that of a mage so they could have created Lelina from the lyrium to protect the world on the surface. It is just thoughts of it. Another thing why I think Leliana is Andraste of lyrium is simple you cant do anything bad if she is around she always gets mad beacuse she has the way of thinking about what is correct or not. I guess we will fid out later on. I just wish we do not abandon the DAO plots for DA4 beacuse we wenture a way without turning back
RTW Iceorb NUMBER TWO LELIANA GOES FOR THE TEMPLE JUSTLY WITHIN MOTIVE CHURCH WISHES TO CALL BUSTER ANIMAL
WHY IS IT U ASSUME DWARFS ARE MAGES? AS U WANTED TO TELL WE NO THEY CANNOT B MAGES HAVE U EVER SEEN A DWARF TO FIRE SPELLS MENTAL SICKLY ANIMAL?
Leliana has top tier skin care products
why do you think she is so fond of nugs... her secret is nug poo and raven feathers
Top tier elfroot
Blood of virgins probably.
Dermatologist hate her!
Local spymaster exposes shocking anti-aging secret. Learn the $5 trick to her stunning results.
I always play Leliana’s Song before Origins. I killed Leliana once, after romancing her of course. They also mention the death in Dragon Age 2 when Hawke meets her in the Viscount Keep, fans seem to forget about that
Hawke: “Sister Leliana from Lothering? I heard you died.
Leliana: “Perhaps the maker felt it wasn’t my time.”
i genuinely don't remember seeing her at all during DA2 and i played that shit like 17 times, i clearly need to play through it again.
yeah both the left AND right hands of the divine were in 2. Cassandra throughout, though, dealing with Varric, but yeah, Leliana, the assassin/spy of the Devine was DEFINITELY in Dragon Age 2 but only for a relatively short time, much like Tallis.. in fact Tallis may have been in the game longer lol
Oh I would love to see Tallis return for Dragon Age 4. I was a little disappointed she didn’t show in Inquisition.
@@joenesvick7043 she's mentioned In trespasser
Joe Nesvick same! I know that a lot of the people in dragon age forums don’t like her for some reason, but I thought she was fun and I REALLY loved her dagger throwing move lol
I’ve never killed Leliana in Origins, so it wasn’t until a year ago when I joined Reddit that I found out about the lyrium ghost thing. The DA sub has opened my eyes to many things.
I always assumed Leliana was a decsendent of Andraste and that's why she's so special. What if Dwarves are Lyrium constructs?
Notsosmartguy 625 That might explain what little we know of the Titans from The Descent dlc and their (whatever they/it is) connection to dwarves.
Elves might have created dwarves, or even just lyrium then it created dwarves. I don't think a certain someone doesn't see the rest of the races as people merely because of "elven glory". Humans and such may have literally not been around in the time of Arlathan, or been in a form even we would call animals. Perhaps the veil allowed them to prosper?
I'm pretty sure Flemeth is Andraste possessed by/hosting Mythal though. There are too many on-the-nose hints about her being Andraste. Look for the parts about Andraste's daughters (her line only able to have women), the DAO stuff we can link to Flemeth.
Do remember that the lore we find in game is not set in stone, and is often twisted by years of people retelling it.
seraphilight true. I am not a fan of the "Elves are behind everything" though, it lessons the other races and I like the idea that there's abit of truth to each races creation myth. I like the idea that the Dwarves were created by the Titans, there was some kind of Maker but It only created humans, the elves were spirits given mortal form, and I don't know about the Qunari but as long as it involves dragons.
I mean, the elves lived in a world where they could IMAGINE things into existence. I assume not all elves were mages, and that's how there was order with the mages leading. It was compared to Tevinter quite a bit. Didn't Solas have a "world of tranquil" comment about after the veil? Maybe they were all mages then, or at least able to affect things, idk.
TBH, Dragon Age seems to be taking a "All gods are false, they were actually people" approach. One has to wonder how different a powerful spirit is from a god as well.
It's possible all the other races, save elf, were literally animals that were "brought up" or modified by elves. Even when you'd consider them people by default, those who "created them" aka, uplifted them might not. That's the way those stories often go.
We know little about the Qun and the race that used to be kossith, save for their attitude towards things. I imagine we'll find out more next game, as it should be dealing with Tevinter and Qunari.
Notsosmartguy YOUR USER NAME SAYS IT ALL JUSTLY WITHIN MOTIVE LELIANA IS SO DEVOTION DIVINE FILLED SHE’S ANDRASTE DESCENT? I KNOW NOT WHAT IS THE MOST BUSTER THEORY I MAY READ INSIDE THIS COMMENT SECTION
I don't think leliana can't age. Bioware just doesn't age people well. Look at morigan and alistair they don't look like they aged at all either. Hell loghain looks younger in inquistion than he did in origins
I always taught resurrected Leliana was something similar to the guardian of the sacred ashes.
About the lullaby, I'm pretty sure Leliana mentions the song was sung to her by an elven woman after her mother died, maybe one of Lady Cecelie's servants who nannied her, since she was so little. Also I'd heard the theory that Leliana was a half-elf, but I always assumed it was her father who was the elf, since in Origins (I replayed it recently) she mentions how gratefull she was that Lady Cecelie kept her mother in service even after she became pregnant while unmaried. Leliana's mother was fereldan, but she was in service of an orlesian noble woman, not to mention human/elf marriages seem to be frowned upon in general. So yeah, I think she's elf-blooded, but it's the dad and not the mom
So you're saying her dad was an elf? Sure I can get behind that.
If that is the case, this really explains why Leliana's quite sympathetic towards the elves.
Cool theory but I think it's too far for me. I can get behind something wonky happening at the Temple of Sacred Ashes after you kill her. She becomes a lyrium ghost then, something with the last fleck of sacred ash, or intervention of a powerful spirit/god/the maker/Andraste, but extending that to "She was a construct the WHOLE time" is just about out of my suspension of disbelief and doesn't really jive with Bioware's typically well thought out writing.
Yea I agree, especially when Lel was a bard. why would a lyrium ghost be a bard?
@@joar5495 Lyrium sings....
I think she didn’t die in the temple of sacred ashes (if you kill her). She is just cured by the lyrium beneath the temple + the ashes’ sacred abilities. She passed out, was almost dying, but those factors revived her somehow.
If you kill her, you have defiled the Ashes with Dragon's Blood (Without Hardening her... hardening her first and you can make her just go along with it :P), which means you ruined the power in it. The Lyrium sounds like a close thought to how or why, but the Ashes are ruined if she was killed xD
@@raevmanigotnoskills5837 You sure? Some magical stuff gets even more powerful after getting somewhat corrupted (red lyrium is far more powerful than blue). I know one must use the taint on lyrium for it to turn red and the game gives you an option to use dragon blood on the ashes... but isn’t it possible that the blood enhances something of the ashes’ abilities?
Hold up. In Hushed Whispers shows that Leliana is resistant to the taint, not red lyrium. This is why she was used by Alexius to treat Felix, who was infected with the taint. Also, Cassandra's personal quest shows that Seekers are resistant to red lyrium, but this doesn't mean Seekers were sung into existence by lyrium.
Next point, darkspawn probably don't go near titans because the song of a titan might drown out the song of an old god (currently Razikale most likely). So of course they won't go near a source of song that is not of the old gods, which is the song the darkspawn follow. It has nothing to do with lyrium, as lyrium can be corrupted.
Leliana was not stabbed fatally in Leliana's Song, anymore than Morrigan (possibly) was in Witch Hunt. She was also taken prisoner, treated for her wound, and then raped and assaulted numerous times. The voice of encouragement she heard was of Dorothea. This is confirmed in the DLC.
According to World of Thedas (which I don't trust) Leliana met Marjolaine when she was 16. So she was probably 18 in Leliana's song, and a little older than that in Origins. So figure 34 or so in Inquisition. She's not that old to begin with.
Her "vision" could have been based on her own life experiences. Being betrayed, thrown into a dark dungeon, and raped would likely cause her mind to envision a dark place. It could have been a result of suicidal thoughts. Also, the Guardian seemingly calls bullshit on her vision and accuses her of making it up for attention. So it could be nothing.
she actually meets the city elfs mother in leliana's song. the city elf is about 18 to 20 in origin. so she's about 30 to 34 in origin...assuming the city elf was a little boy in song.
I know, which is why I wrote that I don't trust World of Thedas. But we don't know how old the city elf is in Leliana's Song or in Origins. I was just estimating she was around 24 in Origins, which would put her at around 34 in Inquisition. My memory of the city elf origin is a bit rusty, but the city elf could have been around 10 in LS, and 18 in DA:O, possibly even 16.
I would estimate at most that if the city elf was 6 in LS while Leliana was 18, and then if the city elf was 20 in DA:O while Leliana was 32 (which would contradict the timeline regarding the Orlesian occupation of Ferelden), then that would still only make Leliana 42 in DA:I. It would still be possible for Leliana to look as young as she does.
But for comparison, Anora is definitely 30 in DA:O. The impression I got from Origins was that Leliana was younger than Anora.
Personally my take is that she is just about fanciful tales if not killed, but aspects of her tales come to life if she is killed (thus Trespasser slide), but a future game that addresses things will have enough fanciful things happen to her that the choices/journey paths along the way won't matter as much to the core narrative. One way or another, and at whatever pace, her stories/songs will come to life. Just as I tend to think that one way or another, *a* Hawke will fall 'into the abyss', whether in DAI or a later title. Hawke will also learn to fly, as Flemeth suggests. The magic returning to Thedas will affect everyone, and everything. Some sooner than others. Some people being already something special, while others become something special or even more special than the first set. But the whole world will change (into a more full/non-Chantry calendar 'Age of Dragons'?) and DAI is about the first inklings that it is inevitable.
I don't think Leliana was already in her 30s in Origins. The wiki is also very strange in terms of age.
I would say Alistair is 24
Leliana is 22
Morrigan 24
Zevran 23
Ogren 43
Wynne 64
Sten 38
Those are my asumes! They are not legit.
Alistair is 20.
Morrigan perhaps around the same.
Zevran a tad older probably late 20's to early 30s.
Leliana is about 28-30.
The HOF ages vary.
The only thing that bugs me is that there is a specific skill you can learn as a rouge where you play dead that I once used to enter into a stalemate with flemeth in da1. I had always assumed she survived because she was a rouge...and she always lives in my play throughs...I love her more than alister she is too awesome. But it would have been cool if the developers had used this approach. They could have been like, well she out played the hero of fereldan, using her cunning...
Spencer Dean I've only killed leliana once on a separate save just to get the reaver class for my main file. I dislike killing her. My personal cannon has her as the lover of my hero of fereldan. I've honestly never thought she would be headless and dead. But yes you are right.
Sometimes you'll get one of the Special/Critical Kill animations where your opponent gets beheaded. Apparently, a lot of the people who killed her got that animation. I didn't on my evil play through.
Rogue*
@@Akurokuma there is no sense in animation random roll, while you can create illusion of yourself (stealth) as a rogue. And Leliana is a master spy/bard herself :))
I'm not so fussed about Dorothea's aging. The first image is her before she became Divine. It's like being elected President ages the hell out of you...
My theory is... Leliana is andraste. She hears the maker, as she claimed in origins. Andraste heard the maker, even being referred to as the bride of the maker. They say andraste will be reborn. My theory fits with the lore. And gods can assume mortal form, look at fen'harel/solas.
Good idea but it’s more likely Mythal was Andraste since Solas is revealed to be the maker.
@@lgchamp1999 Solas is not the Maker
@@lgchamp1999 still not entirely out of the question! It's implied that there are multiple copies of FleMythal if she doesn't get killed in Origins, at least for a time. And Flemeth says she carries PART of mythal. It's entirely possible that the remnants of Mythal are shattered parts, and that Andraste was one, all while Flemeth/Her ancestors held another piece
If true, Andraste was a false prophet and a hypocrite who was incapable of truly excepting culpability for her mistakes.
Sandal is definitely June tho. Whether a host, June pretending to be daft to escape Solas, or June trying to put himself in another body and fucking up.
In DAI theres a conversation with Josephine and she says that she knew leliana years ago. But then continues the conversation saying that shes "changed so much"
I suspect Leliana is an unknowing agent of a titan, and maybe she was created at a very young age and grew up to be the person she is. Plus her specialization is Bard, while others can learn it and use it, lyrium is known to sing to people and though not magic(like Valta's not magic, and Sandal's not enchantment) it seems to fall into the category of another power entirely.
It is my belief that all the specializations in Origins had significance, Morrigan learned to Shapeshift which is an ability tied to the fade that Flemeth(Mythal) taught her, Sten didn't have one because as a Qunari he lacked individuality but can gain one by getting closer to the Warden, Wynne is being kept alive by spirits which allows her to share the healing with others, Zevran is an assassin(simple enough), Oghren has issues with anger that he allows to fuel is combat potential, Alistair was trained by the templars(and can use his abilities without lyrium), and finally, Leliana who uses songs in battle might seem a bit strange because not everyone that uses songs creates magic after all.
There is also a conversation i ran in to in Orzemmar or the Dalish camp that i encountered ironically shortly before watching this video between Leliana and Wynn
Wynne: It is sometimes so hard to believe that you have been through so much, at such a young age.
Leliana: I think I look younger than I am.
Wynne: Yes... yes, that is possible. When I was your age I was just about ready to take on my first apprentice.
Wynne: In hindsight, perhaps I should have waited a few more years. I was arrogant, my confidence bolstered by my youth.
Leliana: It is so hard to imagine, seeing you now.
Wynne: Oh, I've had some two decades or so to grow mellow. Believe me, back then I was quite... prickly.
Leliana: So you are like a fine wine, yes? Losing the raw edges over time?
Wynne: I suppose there is some truth to that analogy but dear Maker, I do hate being compared to wine. Or cheese.
Wynne: Especially cheese.
There seems to be several small party banters that help back your theory of Leliana not aging
I always thought Leliana was some reincarnation of Andraste. She's just been unable to connect the dots in her current life.
Facts
She is Andraste, at least I hope the writers confirm it to be so.
If true, Andraste is a false prophet and a highly flawed person with a self serving nature.
Leliana has premonitions, that is why she had strong feeling to follow The Hero of Ferelden. Her visions or dreams are important.
Leliana stood on a peak where she saw an impenetrable darkness, and there was a noise a terrible noise. She says that the darkness consumed everything, and when the storm consumed the last of the sun's light she fell, and the darkness drew her in.
When she woke Leliana went to the chantries garden. The garden was dead like before but that day she saw a single rose that bloomed on a dead bush.This was in DAO ( keep in mind )
The dream is total darkness .. It depicts what will happen.. And Leliana has seen this, her own death.. In your heart shall burn.
When Leliana is captured by Alexus at the end, her last moment before she is slain she sees the Inquisitor and Dorian conjuring a portal. The last of the light consumed by darkness.
But when she awoke, there is hope.. A single rose...The only survivor... If I'm right then Bioware has planed this all along .
matt richard
Shit.. Yes in Hushed Whispers.. Damn . TY
Sandal prophecies "One day the magic will come back - all of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see."
So I think that Sandal is like what Valta has become.. Touched by a Titan.
Titan, I believe can see parts of the future but not all, and in pieces like a shattered mirror. The prophecies can be tweaked or reshaped . Sandal was nearly right but solas did not succeed. Well not yet.
Pantheon and the Titans were at war once, and perhaps they still are? We may have to choose a side soon..
Just want to add as a rebuttal for Leliana's visions, that at the end of Origins; if Leliana is hardened, and you tell her you don't believe she ever had any visions, she coyly admits to making it up and says that "it makes for a good story, though". I forget the exact wording, but remember having that conversation with her on my canon run through; and found it again while looking through her dialogue file on the PC version a couple years back.
@ darkdesigns .. It's been to long since I've played DAO. I need to touch up.. But for now I Google lol.
When Leliana tell her vision, the HoF can reply " The chantry says that the Maker has left us ".
Leliana replies " He's still here, I hear him in the wind and the waves. I feel him in the sunlight that warms my skin. I Know what the chantry says, but what should I believe, what I feel in my heart or what someone tells me"
From what I can remember if you deny her vision, or harden her, then yes she succumb to scoffing.
Or she's a bard and is good at telling tales.
Food for thought... What if Andraste's voices or visions was something Titan... ish.
When player saves Leliana from Alexius's prison in DA:I, she looks very old, while Alexius sent us in future only a year ahead. I was always curious why she got old so quickly. Then I just thought developers made her look old instead of drawing scars from tortures.
I think Leliana is a real person unless you kill her. If that happens then whatever has been guiding her makes a new body for her so events can continue. I feel something is definitely leading Leliana in her thinking. But I suspect it doesn't speak with a real voice but through more...interpretive methods. The voice in that dlc is a real person who maybe, also, is being guided.
Honestly, it really makes sense. She hasn’t aged a day since 2006
I always liked this theory. The idea that she is a lyrium ghost either way, I prefer this honestly. The thing is, I don't like her disappearing into a flock of crows or whatever. In my DA:I ending, Liliana became a shoe salesman in Orlais training her replacements and new Inquisition spies. What better place for her than retirement with powerful political connections living in Orlais. Leliana is a one lady army whether she lyrium ghost or mortal.
tbh I kinda just off-handedly assumed Leliana is supposed to be Andraste or at least her spirit.
Honestly even thought it seems it I don't think her being a lyrium ghost really constitutes a "retcon", seeing as the death still happened it's just been explained away with a convenient explanation. It's be a retcon is it wasn't even eluded to.
That being said I don't think the lyrium ghost thing even constitutes a deus ex machina, I think there's every reason why Leliana should have been the one to become one. She has some connection to something, whether that be a Titan, the Maker, or some Spirit is uncertain, but it still stands Leliana does believe herself to have been given divine direction and the rose on the dead bush gives us all the indication we need that at the very least something is watching over her.
It stands that regardless of anything, from the moment we first meet her, Leliana was planned to be special.
It is a neat theory but I always thought be more probable that she, like Wynne, was saved by a spirit. If the Warden killed her anyways. Some may say well, Leliana isnt a mage, but (Asunder spoilers) neither was Evangeline yet the spirit saved her. Though, it was through Wynne? So no idea. Maybe Leliana has some slight magical ability she isn't aware of. Just my personal head cannon to explain it.
I was gonna ask, isn't "fight for those who can't" the same thing/close to what Wynne's spirit said to her?
I tend to go with the standard that if killed by the Warden, she became a ghost after that. Maybe she had some odd sensitivity before that which contributed to her becoming a ghost. Also on her intent as Divine, I think her intended goals right from when she first met the Warden would remain, though affected by her experiences and the emotions she has encountered. It goes back to how Spirits can be affected, like how Justice became Vengence due to Anders' anger.
5:00 crap, I never realized that she had not aged at all! Even when playing both the dlc and the main game, i did not think to question the age difference!
If we look at character's physical appearance, I feel obligated to note that Alistair and Morrigan don't look older either, and Loghain almost looks younger than he did in Origins.
The Leliana's Song dlc took place about two years before Origins. That's why she's barely aged by the time the Blight rolls around.
As for Mother Dorthea, we don't see her for 12 years, and a lot can happen in that much time. As Divine, she is the religious leader of a continent, in a position of power and responsibility. A job like that is stressful under normal circumstances, let alone the added stress of the Mage-Templar War. Of course she looks ancient in comparison to when she was merely the head of a single town's Chantry!
you know, I started digging at reading this comment. I could have sworn that Leliana had told us during DA:O that she spent longer than this hiding in the Lothering chantry but yeah, Leliana's song happened in 9:28 Dragon (according to the Wiki) & DA:O happened 9:30-31 Dragon so, you're absolutely right... there was only 2 years between the two. Thanks for pointing that out
I think it was just a retcon to allow them to bring back a fan favorite character
Me, clicking on the video: haha this will be fun
Me, after watching the video: holy shit
What if Leliana is like Cole? Some kind of good spirit 🤔
It's interesting to think about, especially given the way she up and disappears, but I don't think it's true.
If she dies in the temple of sacred ashes, then maybe from that point.
But that said, she's in the temple with ashes that can supposedly heal all ails right in her vicinity, and since the thing she is killed over is corrupting the ashes, they hypothetically might be exposed to the air to do that whole corrupting thing. Maybe exposing her to them. So there's potentially canon reasons why she may have come back to life.
(Also, magic and spirits exist in this universe, so... Yeah.)
Well there is a vid bout Cullen, there's a video bout Leliana, so make a vid about the most awkward but yet still cute, Ma girl Josie. I mean we don't know much about her but I have a theory that is so real (lmfao it's not) that her youngest sister Yvette is actually an... ARCHDEMON
I agree with this theory and this makes me think about the ashes guardian, he was always protecting the temple and I began to think that he may be also affected by the red lyrium
I think it makes sense in the specific worldstate of Leliana dying in the Temple of sacred ashes. Saying that Leliana might survive because the mountain on which the temple is build is full of lyrium, is quite a good explaination. Oghren says that the mountain is full of Lyrium, when you take him with you.
It also explains the long-surviving knight/ghost who protects the ashes and all the other ghosts who riddle you.
Considering, that the whole mountain is full of lyrium it's surprising/lucky that the explosion in Inquisition was so small. Anyway saying that Leliana is Lyrium-ghost does make sense in this scenario and since she isn't needed anymore if she is not Devine also makes sense (to some degree) for her to vanish...
because after Trespasser we see all our advisors again... even Leliana as Spymaster no matter if she is Devine or not (I don't know how it is otherwise).
Anyway, great Video!
In inquisition, the quest where the inquisitor and dorian are flung into the "future", Lilliana aged a lot! she was like elderly. However true it was, also assumes Solas was going to be destroyed is tough to believe.
Actually she wasn't aged. She was being experimented on and that took a toll on her appearance.
But what about the fact, that Cole - always puts honey into Lelianas tea?
To quote 2nd volume of "The world of Thedas":
One of the Maker's commandments, that magic should serve man rather than rule over him, was as honey to the souls of the downtrodden of Tevinter, who lived under the thumbs of the magisters.
^ - may that be why Cole is adding honey to her tea? Because Andraste is serving man rathen than ruling over them?
Surely it makes more sense for Leliana to have been saved by a spirit in the temple during/after her "death" and needs to remain with Leliana to keep her alive?
I like this theory, I honestly would love if this is ever made true, considering that she is a mystical being who is right there when she's needed.
Ive been *waiting* for someone to do this
The voices tell Leliana "fight for those who can't" The Titans can't fight for themselves can they? From our only encounter with one we fight it's supposed followers and a "guardian," but that's it. Wild, I thought the Titans song theory was a bit much at first but it's starting to make alot of sense.
Lilly could have been revived by a mix of the lyrium in the mountain(ogrhen mentions sensing it when you approach the urn) and the dragon blood that was all over her from killing the drakes and dragonlings throughout the ruin seeping into her wounds. Both are known to have restorative properties and to make those that consume them hear voices. Plus dragons are naturally resistant to the blight(which most likely means their blood is as well), so that could explain why she has such a high resistance to red lyrium. I tend not to believe the “elven gods reincarnated” theories because the only one known to do this is Flemeth and her method is less of a reincarnation and more of a willing possession anyways, so I really don’t think it’s the case with Lilly.
I'm just now finding your channel and I'm borderline obsessive about DA lore. Especially the goddess, Liliana and the charmer of charmers, Verric.
That last message never made sense to me. It's literally the biggest wtf moment because there's no explanation and I wonder if it was done just to mess with us or because there was really something behind it. I adore Leliana. She has a spot in my heart, so much so that I cry every time I see her "die" in the future. But this made so much sense that I think I'll cry again XD
She only becomes a Lyrium ghost if she's killed in Origins, sounds like.
This all sounds like she isnt entirely human... but it doesnt really follow that she is fake...
This video is LIT! :D
Ghil good theory and it may or may not correlate with mine, So either She's an Spirit Abomination(Has a Spirit Guardian) or is an Spirit Herself.
But I have a Theory that the Elves and Humans once were immortal how because they began as Spirits of Wisdom and War, While Dwarves and Qunari are the only Races that are made of the world the Earth and the Sea respectively those are the only Mortals/Natives of Thedas, Which is why they don't have "Gods" their God is the World, Elves and Humans are the way they are by abiding by their nature and trying to return to the state they were once in (Magic/Spirits="Gods"), Well also explaining why Dwarves and Qunari don't think highly of Magic because they aren't connected to it they were created from Thedas itself (Nature) that's their home (So they aren't bound by Magic/The Fade their bound by the Laws of Nature).
While Humans and Elves seek to return to the "Golden City" in other words were they originate from is the Fade/Beyond their hostile invaders of Thedas (Those bound by the Laws of Magic and all of it's limitations). Which is why the Titans "The Pillers of the Earth" IE "The Natural Guardians of Thedas" attacked they didn't want these hostile spirits turning demonic because of the Elven "Gods" bring strife and conflict to the World so they attacked first to save it.
If Spirits can become Mortal why not vice versa or way back in time they did just that and stayed Mortal?, How through Blood Magic, Rift Magic and Both kinds of Lyrium.
Lyrium is known as the "Waters of the Fade" what if it's literally water from the Fade? So the Qunari are a mix of both worlds Seas clashing together which would explain their violent nature because their a mixed species by blood and soul both coming from "alien" forces (Why they have "Magic" but hate/despise it too, The Qunari are dual-natured having been conflicted from within since their origins, Which Corypheus did say to a Qunari Inquisitor that their species was a mistake. What if he's right?). Also Dwarves can gain "Magic" too, But what I'm saying is there's two sources of Magic one is from Thedas and physical that's the "Magic" that created the Titans their vassal species the Dwarves and the Qunari and that's the "Natural Magic/Law of Thedas" IE Their the only true Natives of Thedas.
As for Humans and Elves they come from the other source in the other world IE the Fade/Beyond, From the Golden City corrupted "Black" by the "Taint" when Spirits became Demons/Mortals by "Pride"(Solas? Solas is Elvish for Pride.) the corrupted version of the Spirit of Wisdom and the Demon of "War" the corrupted versions of the Spirits of Will and Peace those Humans and Elves in my theory are actually Spirits turned Demon turned Mortal through the "Sin of Pride".
Humans are Will, War and Peace. Elves are Pride and Wisdom. Dwarves are the "Stone"/"Soul" and only pure native species to Thedas connected to the Titans "The Pillers of the Earth". The Qunari are the Seas a mix of "Magic/Soul" and "Nature/Blood" as the "waters" of both "worlds" clashed.
But now all of the Races have intermixed/strayed from their natures/paths and have become a mix of Blood, Soul, Magic, Nature and Will, Pride and Wisdom, War and Peace creating "Chaos" The Dragon Age.
Flames Of Chaos
Jackdaw Journalism Hi Jackdaw, I love you’re videos!
Flames Of Chaos JACKDAW!!! :D Ayyyyy. Also this theory blew my mind
P.S. Love your videos too JaaaaaaccckkkDdddaaaaaaawwwwwwwW!
Well in DA:I there is a conversation with Dagna where she states Lyrium is alive, so I guess that could help explain it. Not to mention the introduction of Cole where a spirit merged with a body that wasn't possession, so I guess it could be possible. Maybe Leliana was the spirit incarnation of Andraste that merged with lyrium to create the person that is Leliana?
light saberAddiCt Cole is not merged with anything he just formed that body from his will.
@@briarrosegael2015 and it is implied that Solas did this as well.
the old elves, and their lost descendants (Spirits) seemed able to choose form at will. what Cole and Solas did was a step further however as they made their bodies completely real.
In Asunder Cole was always struggling to keep his body physical, but as more people came to believe he was real, he became more real, until *He* believed he was real, and became fully corporeal.
Well I wouldn't be surprised if the Guardian giving his essence to Leliana after his death.
But I do like this theory.
:D Keep up your good work.
i somehow have disturbing images in my mind...
Wait, I have an addition to this theory, if Leliana is a Lyrium ghost/has been made by a Titan and in this version and will be recalled when needed, it is possible that she is a reincarnation of Andraste. What if Andraste herself was created by a Titan? What if the Maker is really a Titan? Why do Andrastes Ash's have healing powers, is it because she is made from lyrium?
i am subbed. not because of this video particular - you voice is nice, variety of videos are what i need in this world of da3 hate.
I loved all the dragon age games myself... I admit, the first two years DA2 was around, I HATED it, but eventually warmed to it and now I love all the games, and their DLCs
i honestly don't think they thought this much into it.
i think the "lyrium ghost" theory comes from bioware trolling fans
Either Leliana aged very well between Origins and Inquisition or there's something very strange in there... I keep wondering why she's not mined for Lyrium if you go face Alexius.
it says on the dragon age tapestry thats when the warden kills her, “she is left for dead.” she may have fallen unconscious and was saved by flemeth or whoever took the sacred ashes (they vanish when chantry members return to the temple and find no urn).
Interesting! I've never thought of her as a lyrium ghost but I have thought she may well be a goddess...what if she's actually Andraste? :D She could be part Elf and be one of the old elven gods....Maybe we'll find out in the next Dragon Age game. :D
First video I have ever seen on this channel and that "Are you ok?" made me backtrack and ask myself, Am I ok? It took me off guard making me think about my life and the choices I made
I never considered killing Leliana in DA:O.
In Awakening, Justice hears the song of the Lyrium Ring.
If Leliana heard the song of the corrupted red lyrium, wouldn't she have mentioned it in inquisition?
What has Cole said about her? He's usually the go-to guy for answers
Not related to the theory, but when I read that note in In Hushed Whispers, it made me connect something. We know from Origins that not every recruit survives the Joining. Some die from drinking the Darkspawn blood. So...what if the ones who survive it are the ones with the natural resistance to the blight?
As a further theory...Leliana is able to stay around because of being around so much lyrium in the temple of sacred ashes. Oghren says that the guardian is able to remain there because of the great amount of lyrium. Sandal was discovered, wandering the Deep Roads, where lyrium is mined. And templars get their powers from lyrium. Red lyrium talks to you, makes stuff float etc, when you're near it. But apparently regular lyrium has this to a certain extent too. Bianca says lyrium is alive. That red lyrium is lyrium that caught the blight. So...what if when you're around so much lyrium and die, you become it in some sense?
was watching sfdebris continuing his da2 review on his website using vimeo, after watching that i went directly to youtube.com , i haven't watched anything dragon age related on youtube for months, maybe over a year, this was in my reccomended list. yay data tracking.
also not subscribed to nor have i ever seen this channel before. oh well, i will watch the video, but i do find this circumstance amusing.
Well . . . She did manage to survive despite me chopping her head of !!
I imagine the only thing the writers had in mind when making Leliana in DAO was to write a religious rogue bard with a dark back story. I bet they didnt imagine this same Leliana would turn out to be an even bigger mystery than Morrigan.
Oh man, I love this theory! Also I wonder if their are any implications for divine Leliana?
I have heard this theory before and I don't really like it. But I have to admit it makes a lot of sense of all the inconsistency's in Dragon age. I don't want it to be true
Very interesting theory. In my oppinion a bit to tin foil and conplicated... I'd say that with everything about darkspawn, the fade, spirits and the elves and the Vail that we learn in Inquisition and Traslspasser DLC, I would imagine Leliana is a special human. Not magical by her own wish, but watched over and helped by a spirit. As well as maybe having a little conection to magic but that it hasn't manifested really. She could have elven roots but in the end, just a human.
tbh it would be more believeable to say Leliana is either Andraste reborn or bonded (unknowingly) with Andraste's spirit. We see in Inquisition a spirit that takes the shape of the Devine but its never found out for certain if it was her spirit or aother spirit presenting itself as her. If thats possible then why not Andraste? She could be the reason of Leliana's hearing of voices and getting visions, guiding her what to do. I mean... she wouldnt be the first person to have such bond. Take for example Flemeth, Wynn, Anders.
Perhaps she’s actually like Cole. The real Leliana died during her imprisonment, and tug/sketch summoned a spirit of compassion to become her
Leliana does decay in the future timeline, whether she is a ghost or not.
Maybe it's because of the experiments, the blighted blood or because she mimics what would have happen.
i thought the sacred ashes rezzed her? i recall oghden saying the ashes was infused with potent lyrium, so that could be the real reason behind how she came back. not that the ashes were "blessed" or "magical" like any andraste follower would like to have anybody believe.
But you only have to kill Leiliana if you DEFILE the sacred ashes (it's how you unlock Reaver) and she's already in your party. She and Wynn will both go hostile.
What if she's similar to Cole? A spirit taken mortal form. Maybe a spirit of secrets found the dead Leliana and was so fond of her that it essentially took over her role in life. It would explain the resistance to Red Lyrium at the least I think.
Wow, always a joy to watch your videos. I love my mind being thrown in the blender. :)
Thanks Ghil!
If in the case where your warden kills Lilianna in the tomb of sacred ashes, and she comes back in 2 and inquisition, what if she is like Cole in that she is a spirit that possesses her body as she lays dying. It is possible that as the Warden left her for dead and in her dying moments she cried out to the Maker and a spirit heard her, perhaps one of compassion and he/she possessed her and then worked through the memories of being killed and embraced her more human nature to where she embodies the real Lilianna.
Could this work better than that of being a recon?
I'd have definitely preferred that (unless they actually take the time to explain the whole lyrium ghost thing and make it sounds plausible in future games) but I guess they'd have had to make a second version of her dialogue where she is weirder and kind of off, since all of the people possessed by benign spirits undergo some personality change, even the ones that still have their souls in there with the spirits, and Cole obviously was way more extreme.
I think that Lilianna is the spirit of Andraste herself come to help those on a Noble cause
But what if she's an Envy demon? (Like Samson) Only difference is that the Envy demon became passive and supportive, not aggressive.
Best theory in comments. People put her on a pedestal, but she is an obvious narcissist.
I suspected that Sketch was perhaps an ancient elf, or descended from their ranks and was sent out to spy or gather information. But this is an interesting take as well.
its actually quiet simply Leliana if she is killed in origins or left to die in lothering something akin to a wraith her desire to help and protect people turned her in to a spirit that used lyrium to give herself shape and if she survived origins then she could have died between the events of origins and dragon age 2 and had the same thing happen or she is a half elf and naturally ages slower
Interesting - It would also explain why Leliana (despite having all the skills to be very successful on her own - she is a great spy, she knows how to defend herself and she's also a great performer so she can make a living without problems!) latches on to powerful people, she might need a kind of "anchor" in the world and she comes to reflect her anchor's believes (hardening or unhardening her, letting her kill without a thought or showing her that compassion isn't always overrated!)
Hell, I would like this to be true very much because that means we will probably see her again and again (if she doesn't age!) in futer DA-Games, not to mention that this would make for great quests (uncovering where she comes from etc.) :)
ps: I would love more "strange" companions in the future (I might not have liked Cole much, but the idea behind him? Damned, that I did like! Just like Shale and Wynne with her spirit!)...as long as they don't hide it like Solas (damned, you took my arm you bastard!)
Well she's very much DA's Liara (Liara is even technically in MEA and there's ways she could be in a next game). Long life, long youth or potential of effects of youth, and carries on minor to major relevance in plot.
Not sure about the "construct" part.
While doing Varric's quest, Bianca, the dwarf not the crossbow, explains that red lyrium is lyrium with the blight corruption. She goes on to relate that only living things are susceptible to the blight.
In Awakening, Justice explains that he can hear the music from the lyrium ring.
I am more curious to find out if Andraste had a connection to Solas.
I always assumed that the wounds didn’t kill her but almost did and the ashes of andraste healed her.
But like if she was 23 in origins, she’s 33 in inquisition, I doubt she was in her late 20’s during origins
Ageless? You think? if we look at Leliana's Song which would be some fifteen years before Inquisition then she was quite slim with Doretheia having to be somewhere in her forties to be a revered Mother. In the main game Leliana looks to have aged a little, gained a little weight or muscle. Come Dragon Age II she looks very slightly bigger again, and her voice had aged. And in Inquisition she sounds older still, more mature, and looks like she had lost a little weight, gotten a little older.
The theory would definitely hold true if Leliana was killed in the first game, but looking at her background, her history, it would seem too detailed, too much for her to not be a proper human.
No theories needed to call her fake. She tells you she is a liar in Origins and is proud about how good she is at being a liar, if you simply talk to her enough to hear her story. She enjoyed being a spy and a thief, betraying people's trust. It was exciting to her to be a Bard and what it entailed. Being a phony was her major profession for her early adult life.
I believe that leliana is the reincarnation of andraste. It’s heavily hinted at in dragon age origins. Only andraste could hear the maker. Second, the blight was most likely created by the elves who killed or corrupted a titan, so the golden city could have been a titan, or maybe the maker was a titan.
History of Dragon Age
Origins: that's slot of darkspawn
daii: god fucking dammit Anders
Inquisition: WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ooooooooon
This is how dragon age works
I'm not sure what constitutes evidence for a theory like this when the writers have been so willing to retcon anything whenever it's convenient. It's hard to know when they're dropping seemingly-incongruous hints as opposed to just changing history (or making a run-of-the-mill continuity error).
While I do not follow the tin foil hat theories...Leliana could be a reincarnated Andraste. Remember that in DAO the guardian tells her that only Andraste ever heard the maker. But I agree that is pulling at straws, although it would explain a few things. If i were to create a tin foil theory on her, I'd mix in that there was a Leliana, who died; she was resurrected by Lyrium/a Titan which happened to have memories of Andraste mixed in; which caused her to seem like she is mental and suddenly pious.
What if Liliana is like Cole, like the end result of a spirit trying to become human.
I could have sworn the fan consensuses was that if she is killed then a fade spirit (possibly of faith) inters into the shrine and rebuilds herself in Lilianas image, as the other spirit of faith did for Justinia. In DA:O Mages will note that the fade is weak from all the lyrium in the area.
As fun as this theory is... the truth is they wanted to bring back a favorite character (in this case Leliana) back and had to figure out a way they could with some kind of explanation. Will it have some greater meaning in the next game, I doubt it. Remember Origins was expected to be a one off, that is why we have so many origin story's and why so many companions could die it the game. They hadn't planned on having a continuation after Dragon Age Origins.
I see the appeal of all this theory crafting and digging into lore... But I'm incredibly certain that Bioware did NOT put this much thought into their game.
Absolutely love these videos! Thank you for all the time and effort you put into these!!
+Ghil Dirthalen you just got a new sub I always thought something was odd about liliana even in some of the novels but I could never put my finger on it and I dragon age origins i'am pretty sure there was neat dialogue with Liliana and shale in the party
Or she’s like Cole... some spirit visited her upon her death and became her?
Ravens are related to Morrigan and therefore Flemeth. If the Old Gods are the Grand Dragons, then what if the awake Queen of Dragons is actually the lone female: Razikale, and what if her mortal form is Leliana? Dragons are resistant to the Taint, and Razikale apparently is the Oracle equivalent among the Olds Gods.
When I saved the mages, I saw lelianas future-her who was so disturbing old, her skin looked like it was already dead. so I dont know what to think about this " she might not getting old" thing.
I know this is an old video but I wanted to add somethings. Idk If she is a ghost or not but,I believe thier is more going on with her than we know. If you ask her to travel with u she saids it would blind her and every agent is her blades and knife but, if you look around most areas you can see her crows and they look very unique. Almost like they have red lymerm coming out of them