I bought a Mercedes 240D years ago. I had the oil changed at my mechanics and a few days later checked it and it was black. I brought it back and asked if he changed the oil. He laughed and said you never owned a diesel before have you. I said no.
I was a mercedes mechanic my whole career. Yes, when you drain oil, you will never drain it all. So the new oil will be black immediately. This is due to the combustion material getting by the rings which is normal. It's just carbon,
After teaching maintenance and repair vocational classes for over 27 years, I have to say that your presentations are well done and easy to understand. A couple of years ago I bought a 2003 Winnebago diesel pusher with a Cat 3126 330 hp which is starting to give me some problems. Since I do a lot of my maintenance and repairs I have learned a lot from your videos. On the way home from a trip the check engine light came on and the the rv slowed to 45 mph, after a few minutes of this the engine power came back up and I could go normal speed. After stopping, shutting the engine off, and sitting for a few minutes I restarted the engine and drove another 150 miles without a problem. After arriving home a month went by I took the rv to fill it up with fuel and drove it back home - - no problems! I start it once a month and run it a few minutes at a high idle to keep it dried out and lubricated. The last time I did it when I brought it back to low idle and the engine started bucking and shut down and now it won't start. Thank you for the videos - - I am now doing the trouble-shooting according to your advice,.
Thanks for putting this up, I bought my first Diesel Car yesterday and while I decided to do a little check just to make sure the dealer had done what he said he would do, shock horror when I checked the dipstick and the oil was black....so on to the phone and he assured me this was normal and from watching this you have confirmed that I wasn't being duped... Thanks
finally the information I was looking for. I bought my first diesel car 3 months ago and just checked the oil for the first time. I was starting to get worried, Thank you for this video!
It is just plain fun to view these intelligent, well presented videos. At the fleet shop of my current employment, I have the luxury of allowing engines to drain over night, which allows one extra gallon of old engine oil from a 3406E to exit the pan. That, coupled with proper maintenance intervals and converting to CAT oil filters (from the imitations), resulted in the new oil amber color remaining visible much, much longer, plus when the oil is due to be changed the next time, it isn't so thick and black as before. Prior to this approach, one could fire up the engine and not really tell if the oil had been changed. Unfortunately, that overnight situation is not available to dealerships and most fleet shops.
Chad Jessup Good move going to the Cat filters! There isn't a better filter for diesel engines out there in my opinion. Bullet proof design and premium flow with excellent filtration. I also use the Mystic 15w 50 oil in my 1996 W9 3406e and it takes a while for it to darken up. I also switched my thermostat to a 180° from Pittsburgh Power. I know it has nothing to do with the oil but I'm in the southeast where it gets pretty toasty as well as humid. So my engine runs cooler which also works well with the synthetic blend oil. My engine oil doesn't break down as fast due to my cooler engine temperature and you know heat breaks down everything in the long run. Also dynoflex muffler took alotta back pressure off the turbo which also runs cooler and helps the oil last longer. I also try to stick to one type of fuel (Pilot Mostly) but BP is nice and Quick Trip is ok with a shot of Diesel Clean. Just wanted to throw that in the pot...lol.✌
Do you know who make Cat filters? Mystic brand oil is CITGO Oil Co from Communist Venezuela. You don't necessarily want cooler temp, best is optimum temp, which would be whatever the engine came with new.
Allan McCullough Yes i know who makes Cat filters! Nothing to do with the performance and quality. And could careless what Venezuela do on their turf as long as children aren't working the oil fields and platforms! But here in the states via Citgo, Mystic oils are a great product. And my truck operates at a efficient and cool temp. 180° is real nice on the big kitty! Even under a load she still runs cool. They come with a 210° that starts to open at 190°. That might be good up north but not down here in the south. Especially the deep south where i run also. Had my tech run a full diagnostic. He couldn't believe the numbers on a 1996 first year E motor with over 800,000 miles. All my injectors were at the same numbers and very little blow by and decent fuel pressure. Gonna change the spring on the fuel transfer pump and bring it up alittle more. Cat engines are a whole different animal compared to Detroit and Cummins! Lots of moving parts.
Chad Jessup there is a liquid product that you pour in the oil and then you warm the engine for about 10 minutes and then you start to drain it. This product also makes deposits to left the engine with the old oil. Currently they are in cans (like pepsi lol) and one can is for 3 changes (1/3 of the can for about 5 liters). I think this combined with longer drainage is the best. But, if you drain longer then you have to pour the new oil and then actually wait 2 or more hours before the first start.
Thanks bro! Got a 2019 ram ecodiesel and checked my oil when I finally got it home... Changed the oil immediately and after a ride around the block, my oil was black! Since it's Christmas, I'm obviously not able to get into a shop... Your video put me at ease! Thanks
All my Diesel engines are spotless. I have spent a lot of time cleaning them out inside and out and change the oil and filters often. My oil comes out nice and clean, still Carmel colour. I'm very happy with it as my engines run superb. A clean engine is a happy engine.
I got a Pete 389 with C15 SDPXXX, I service it myself with intervals of 11k -12K miles even though CAT recommends up to 30K miles. As you know these engines have the DPF system on them, and after a while they become pain in the butt, and break the bank account. I bought the truck with 470K on the engine, can't remember how many hours, but, it couldn't have idled a lot because there is an TK APU on it that I call a life saver. At first, I used to change the oil at a service station, and every time the tech used to show me the deep stick after a fill up to assure the oil level, the oil used to be gold color, and it took a while before it turned black. After a couple of DPF clean ups, I started having all sorts of problems from clogged filter to bad sensors ...etc. I had to take care of the dam thing once and for all, and I did. Since then, truck runs, and sounds like a totally different truck, and when I change the oil, I have a hard time checking the oil level because it's so clean, and it runs like that for few thousand miles before it turns totally black, I would say somewhere between 7-8 K miles, BTW, the truck has 960K miles, and about 23400K operating hours.
just what I wanted to hear. Switched from gasoline to diesel after a 30+ years of caring and tending my cars with passion. My new car is still under warranty and I really had serious doubts had the service guy really done the oil change (very tidy or no job: no oiled areas around filter base, drain plug, nothing). The color of oil though HAS changed (lost the amount of black) but far from what I experienced from my gasoline cars. Thx again, just the amount of information I needed for a piece of mind :-)
Thank you. We bought a "new" 2004 Kenworth with my son in law. Now, without all the logs, who knows how often the oil was changed? So first things first, the oil was changed. 2,000 miles later it was changed again and after 4,500 miles the oil looks new - no soot. Some one basically took care of the truck. I'm going to watch more of your videos. Being neither a mechanic nor a driver I need your educational videos. FYI, we did have some problems with the fuel filters and we did what I did with my boat - add some tank cleaner and change the filter, repeat the process and then cut down on the cleaner until the filter looks clean when you cut it open - which we did for six filters. Last filter looks great after 2,500 miles so we just need to put a protocol in the log book so it is done on a regular basis. I think this truck sat for some time before we bought it so we will maintain it as though maintenance was not done for a while. Again, thanks for your videos. My 32' offshore fishing boat is gas so I have little problems storing it over the winter - just some gas stabilizer and off we go. I could not afford diesels or the maintenance at the time - nor now that I am retired.Sent you an email with a question: Could you expect a Mack with 775,000 miles on it have a catastrophic exhaust valve failure when the Mack engineers increased the HP from 415hp to 485hp? I would still appreciate an answer. Again, thank you so much for the videos. I have spent 53 years fixing middle market companies but I am grossly ignorant about things mechanical.
I think this was an excellent vid. We just bought a 1 year old 2500 HD Diesel…. Dealership said “we did and oil change”…. I checked it was black about 2000 miles after… Was annoyed about it… found your vid apparently it’s normal after checking other resources…. Thanks makes sense. ! I’d never owned a diesel before this.
Thank you for the explanation. I bought my first diesel truck about 6 months ago. (17 250). Had the first oil change done by the dealer (Ford), and then checked the oil about a month after and saw it was black. I thought that they messed me up and basically charged me for an oil change that they didn't do. About a month ago I decided to change the oil myself using the same Motorcraft oil they used. Filter was changed as well. I was thinking maybe I need to delete the truck due to the soot in the oil. I probably will do that anyway but now I can relax a bit regarding the oil as now I know it's a normal process with these diesel engines!!!
Very thorough explanation, thank you. After I drain the old oil, I add a cheap same grade oil and run the engine to operating temp, then drain and add oem oil to get rid of as much soot as possible. I know it's a bit of a waste of oil during process but it's been so annoying to see a black oil straight after a change. And it's much still cheaper than taking it to a mechanic.
And while you're at it, the next time your tank's empty, dump your dirty oil into your fuel tank before putting in the Diesel. You can save some money on fuel, too.
My engine takes atleast 2000km to show some blackness in the oil. (Now it's not a truck but a 2.4D Toyota Hiace... which absolutely runs like a dream) Every 8000km there's an oilchange and inbetween there's a enginecleaner additive.... But therefore i also mix some engine oil with the Diesel too make the fuel richer again. I gues the engine is in great shape! Thanks for the video!
Toyota Hiace coupled with its cousin the Mitsubishi L300 must have been some of the most reliable pieces of machinery ever made in Japan. And they are working class vehicles too, meaning they are not botomless moneypits like most cars, but they bring money to your pocket too...
Super helpful, I'm only a few weeks into owning my first diesel and was quite alarmed at the super dark oil color not even halfway through my oil change interval!
Can prevent black oil by using a engine oil bypass oil filter down to 1-2micron and reduced fittings to limit flow, Cat C-12 for example have these standard, they should do same for 15’s and 16’s, oil will stay amber with low micron filters. Side note : EGR quadruples soot load in oil
Another thing to consider is that the full flow oil filter only filters out particles around 20-25 microns and larger, thus leaving all the smaller particles free to flow in the oil. In order to combat that, a bypass oil filtration system can be installed. These can filter particles up to 2 microns and smaller out of the oil thus giving it a cleaner look without the sooty look
The Jackmaster Classic claims 1 micron if you use their elements. My flat head Ford V8 has been converted to use a 4 1/2 inch roll of Scott 1000. That is as good as you can get. It wont get all of the soot. The oil in the old Ford diesel is as black as it can get. The oil feels good is slick and doesnt stain the skin. It passes the palm test. The full flow filter wll handle the big stuff. The small soot will be either filtered out or be diluted by new make up oil. I probably wont go over 30 hours without changing the toilet paper and adding a quart of new oil. I probably wont drain the oil. It uses heavy duty 30 weight off road diesel oil.
Soot actually is used as a pigment, they just call it carbon black. Look on any can of black rustoleum and you will see it listed as an ingredient. Thanks for the videos, you have a knack for explaining things scientifically accurate without bias, I am getting tired of people thinking they are diesel geniuses because they read how to turn up the fuel on their "cummings" engines in 8 lug magazine....!
Thanks for the explanation. I just did an oil change on my Audi Q3 TDI and when topping up and checking dipstick I noticed the oil was already black. Only ever done oil changes on petrol engines before so that was a surprise. P.S. Subscribed.
Excellent video! 👍👍👍 I agree much soot ending up in the oil is only a cosmetic issue since particle sizes are so small they are below clearances in rotating parts of the engine. Manufacturers have been observing dark diesel oil for a long time and if there was an issue effecting warranties ($$$$ for the manufacturers) the situation would have been dealt with long ago.
very true about all the oil not being fully removed. I always drain my oil hot and leave it over night to refill with new oil and by the morning the pan is still dripping out some oil
Pretty good video. But I would have touched on how dirty looking diesel fuel looks vs gas vs propane . Obviously propane burns really clean and most oil change intervals can be extended vs diesel or gas . Great vid
That pretty much explains it. I dont normally drain oil. I change the toilet paper filter and add a lot of make up oil. I am keeping the oil as clean as possible and diluting the soot too small to be filtered out. If I cant stay ahead of the submicronic soot I will drain the oil. Its easy on the Pontiac. I cant see the soot on the dipstick. I can see it if I put it in a gallon wine jug. I normally change the toilet paper and add a quart of oil every 6.000 miles on the Pontiac. A lot more often on the Ford diesel tractor. Some bypass filter makers mislead by showing the oil before it naturally gets black.
I installed a brand new Cummins ISX 600 in my older Motor-coach, since I didn’t need the emissions system on my year, I removed the EGR and the DPF system that cane with that engine, and since I keep my oil clean and never allowed it to go black in the first place, it actually still looks like honey after 10,000 miles. I change it every 10K and my engine oil has never gone black. ALSO, my onboard Kubota generator runs perfectly clean if I change it every 50-80 hours.... basically I don’t allow my oil to go black, and when I do an oil change, it stays clear
Nice informative video. I have 2 ,7.3 ford diesel motors. One turns black a short time after an oil change and the other is pretty clean looking even after 3000 miles.
7.3 have over a gallon just in the heads. Only was to drain is to pull high pressure pump. So the 3 gallon oil change is only 75% of the oil gets changed everytime. Owned multiple, but also installed a few under warranty at the dealership.
Makes sense. I bored out a 360 to 366 and Rebuilt the entire thing. ran it with 15w40 diesel oil . its been 6000 miles and the oil is still clean as all hell. as to where out cat 3116 which we run with the same oil, gets dirty super quick. thanks for the video, man!
No idea how this misconception got started but the correct term was/is "Oil Gallery." If "Galley" is in common usage though and everyone knows what is meant, then I say, no harm done.
You'll get darker oil quicker during normal running and not idle, higher combustion pressure = more blowby and also more fuel injected to create soot.Also, combustion products create acidic mixture (especially if there's a lot of sulphur in the fuel) so its important to have a high TBN (Total Base Number) rating in your oil to make sure it neutralises this and keeps the engine corrosion free
neardood1 Idling a vehicle from start-up also means the components haven't expanded due to heat yet. A great opportunity for blow-by. This is likely what he is referring to.
I'm Field Service for 35+ years chasing yellow iron.New hire was truck mechanic and I'm open minded.How he does oil change. Drain oil pan,don't remove filter.Fill engine with diesel fuel to full mark on dipstick.Start engine and let it idle 3-4 minutes.Drain pan,change filter and fill with fresh engine oil.
* when making an oil change on any engine have always done this: let engine completely drain... then refill with fresh oil and new filter... then drive vehicle for 100 miles to 500 miles... then replace oil filter with new oil filter plus oil equivalent... allows filter to do its job... while keeping original oil in the crankcase... after clearing the residual debris that always settles in the bottom of the oil pan... summary: one oil change 2 filters... makes all the difference in the world ^
I own a truck trailer and perform a oils change every 40 thousand miles never problems, in winter weather apply 10w30 and Summer hot weather 15w40 working like a rockstar,
A weird experience on diesels for me is driving a 2005 GMC 2500 with a turbocharged Duramax diesel that has over 350,000 miles on it. No rebuilds or breakdowns. I use Rotella 20W50 synthetic and change every 6,000 - 7,000 miles. The engine runs great and has a ton of power. Every time I check the oil, the oil will stay new-bottle clear for thousands of miles before darkening slightly, which tells me that the design of the engine internals, esp. the rings is superb. In contrast, my Mercedes is completely black after 100 miles.
Thanks a lot for your explanations! I've some older Perkins engines around here (non turbo) with much idle time and the oil is almost instantly black. Now, I get why :)
Somborn Perkins is very reliable engine but also a dirty engine, if the oil is left too long It will tend to turn solid, when omission testing came into annual testing Perkins had to have an exstension to meet the limits along with rolls diesels
Rolls cat and Cummings all had turbo lags whitch causes the puffs of smoke so often seen on films with temporary over fueling. black smoke ..equals excess fuel. Blue equals unburnt fuel
all diesels ive encounted did this... except one, we have a Massey Ferguson tractor with several thousand hours on it, and it still doesnt create a lot of soot. Even when it comes time to change the oil, it always seems to look as clean as ever.
I had a TOYOTA Car that Got 1C Diesel Engine, One day while I was Changing Engine Oil, the Technician didn't Fixed the Oil-Filter correctly, the Moment I Start the Engine Very Dark, Black Engine Oil Start Dipping out of the Filter Bay. I was Shocked, coz I saw him Poured 1 Gallon Yellowish Engine Oil into the Engine just a Minute ago, but it Turned into Black Mud instantly. Today I learn Why it was So.
2012 Dodge Ram 2500 6.7 Cummins 215000 miles. ROTELLA 5W40 OR Valvoline 5w40 what ever is on sale at the local napa. Platinum filter 5000k change intervals. Oil is honey color at oil changes. And fuel filter is changed every other oil change. Deleted with stock power tune. Love it
Good info. In 1963 I put a toilet paper filter on my nearly new Rambler American flat head 6. Used Delo 100 W 30. The oil went from dirty and black to like new and stayed that way. I thought the same would happen with the Peugeot diesel. It wasnt going to happen.
Its normal.used high detergent oil and change oil and filters on regular basis,no worry.Worry if your oil is still clean after a weeks worth of running.
I have just bought a 2009 Mercedes ml320 bluetec diesel engine it has 118,400 miles. I changed the oil and filter. It still runs like brand new. Used a 5w30 full synthetic oil. I also changed the transmission filter and fluid.
I had a 2000 pete with 99 550 cat in it an that was the cleanest running engine I have ever seen. It would take around 5,000 miles before the oil got dirty looking.
Another thing to note - Carbon is actually fairly slippery. Its presence in engine oil isn't the end of the world! Take a graphite pencil (It's all carbon.) and press hard onto some paper and fill in a little box of pencil lines. Then once you have a little pad of pencil graphite, just slide your finger over it. It's slick.Some powder will stick to your finger. Your fingers will now be slippery. Same goes for the soot. Obviously too much isn't great, but the particles are small and shouldn't cause any damage as long as they don't build up and create a blockage somewhere.
Liam 4.0 Different forms of carbon Pencils are graphite who’s is actually used as an EP agent (with molybdenum as well) in a lot of greases usually the black ones Carbon is hard and abrasive, engine oils use a dispersent to stop the carbon sticking to other carbon forming damaging clumps This additive is a “consumable” and once it’s all used up carbon can clump into damaging sizes this is when the oil feels gritty or rough when squeezed between your finger Change oil before it gets to this
I hear you. My oil gets black but it is still slick and doesnt stain the skin. If you get to the point where you can feel the soot it might be too late. Soot under one micron might not be an abrasive but if it keeps building up in the oil it is also not a lubricant. I dont allow my soot levels to get too high. Ive heard of it bunching up.
I took advise from another RUclips video, to change the engine oil when it's no longer blonde. As I own two diesel cars I can get to the shops and back , and then I immediately replace the oil. I've been doing this for six years. I'm now insane.
We had an old John Deere 4440 from the 70's and there was nothing on earth that smoked worse than that beast. Then the dealer said to mix 1/3 kerosene to 2/3 diesel fuel and it cut the smoke in half when started and once it got warmed up and moving, it burned much more cleanly. Now, I do that with my Cummins Dodge. I cut it back 1/4 to 3/4 but it runs so much cleaner and it has better performance all the way around. A little more pricey and pain in the ass, but worth it, especially in the cold months.
Re Keith Ramsden and his post about fuel fiddlers. A lot depends on who the culprit is. If he or she is a "Traveller" (The old names for them are now deemed to be racist) the authorities won't usually bother as the paperwork for "no fixed abode" would be horrendous. Another thing is that the UK has 43 police forces not counting the Transport Police and officers will often try to "bounce" dealing with a crime onto a different force. For example if an uninsured lorry smashes into your car when you are in a different police area from where you live, each police force may claim that dealing with the crime is the other force's responsibility! Been there done that but in spite of "Gold Standard" Comprehensive Plus Insurance with Legal Assistance Cover I never got a penny. Between the start of September 2016 and the end of December 2016 I've had four cars and a boat trailer stolen in two separate thefts. The latter case of a 4x4 and boat trailer vanishing somehow involves the driver of what I now regard as a bogus recovery vehicle. Unfortunately the chief suspect is being protected by the Data Protection Act! Britain is fubar! Curiously when a panda car was stolen from a police station in Cornwall and joy-ridden THAT was not just a Civil Matter as the Bonnie and Clyde duo were jailed! As in George Orwell's book 1984. "In the end some people became more equal than others".
Diesel particulate filter? Oh yeah, that's the thing up in the garage loft, along with the EGR valve and stock air box. Flashed the computer and added 40 horse. Sampled the last change and Blackstone Labs says all is good. Oil stays a nice dark honey color the first couple of thousand miles. The engine seems very happy without all that stuff.
I have a 1987 cat d3b which is a non turbo. The oil in this dozer has never once turned black. It will stay pure golden up to around 500 hours. There's currently about 600 hours on the oil and it's still has a brown transparent look to it. It has a fair amount of blow by from the down tube and doesn't hardly burn any oil. I just can't explain it, everything else I own new or old gets black instantly.
Thanks ! I was really wondering why my oil is allways dark even tho I change it every 10000 km ... ! Even tho the producer of the car says it should be changed at 30k km ...
All those intervals above 10000km/6000mi are crap, never changed oil above that in any of my cars and they run perfect without any issues. Oil is cheap but engines are expensive and car manufacturer's goal is nothing else but to make money
I change my car's diesel engine oil/filter about every 6 months (3-5k miles) and the dipstick is still black immediately after the change (which is most annoying). 30k km seems way too long considering what engine oil does. I suspect they state that as a sales ploy so you avoid the crappy dealership during the vehicle's warranty period, then it's someone else's problem further down the line.
En pocas palabras mas se enegrese el aceite cuanto mas humosa es la combustion , En motores diesel nuevo demora mas en tiznar el aceite La combustion mejor resulta en menos humo que tiznara las paredes de las camisas ( Linner)y pasara al aceite El sopleo del motor tambien En motores que usan gas LPG como combustible el aceite no se tizna y cumple las horas estando limpio Muy buena explicacion Gracias
Juan - thanks for chipping in. Hopefully, your English is better than my Spanish. "... oil gets darker the more smokey the exhaust is." I agree as the dark exhaust shows that combustion has not be optimized, resulting in more soot getting past the piston rings into the oil pan. "Motors that use LPG for their fuel, the oil doesn't darken as quickly." True because that fuel doesn't produce as much particulate matter which can enter the oil pan. "En motores diesel nuevo demora mas en tiznar el aceite La combustion..." I am not certain what you mean in that sentence - something about darkening around the liner. Can you provide a translation from someone? On these posts, we also learn from fellow contributors like yourself. Adept did state a very good explanation.
Iam very happy that you respond at my letter , Well The diesel engines in good operation or new engines the Blow by is minimus and the combustion fumes are correct the exaut tube is clean .and the fumes no dark the linner wall In a old and tired engine as my Perkins 4.203 The oil is VERY DARK as my soul , because the poor engine is low of compresion: was a lot of year working and miles as two travel to the moon.! and the exaut and carter fumes can you do a pack ! The oil consumpcion is 1/4gal for 60 miles, If the oil up to the combustion chamber the fumes down to the carter OIL Is easy Thanksyou very much for your comment in You tu be
Navistar 7.3 liter T444E engine in 2004 Ford F-250. My engine oil stays clear as new for the full 10,000 km oil change interval. Why? Because I fitted an oil guard after market cotton wound sub micron oil bypass filter & I change the main engine filter & the bypass sub micron filter every oil change so the soot never gets a chance to build up or deposit, its always being scrubbed clean while the engine is operating. Why do I do this? Because this engine is somewhat different to some other Diesel engines, in that it has 2 oil pumps! The first is your usual engine oil pump ie a gear or gear / rotor type displacement pump that sends oil thru all the lubricating galleries to bearings and cam shaft etc. The 2nd oil pump is called a HPOP or high pressure oil pump, and is a swashbuckle style oil pump. It’s job is to take the sump oil after the first gear rotor oil pump has pressurised it to around 100-120 psi & increase that pressure - all the way up to ~2000 psi! This high pressure oil is fed to the HEUI (Hydraulic Electric Unit Injectors). That 2000 psi oil pressure at the HEUI injector is used to pressurise the diesel fuel thru the injector at around 20,000 psi to atomise it, & engine management computer along with its Injector Drive Module located in the LH front mudguard, tell the injectors electronically when to fire the diesel into the cylinders via the CPS (Crank Position Sensor). Any heavy equipment mechanic whose worked on hydraulic equipment will tell you that at high oil pressures, if you don’t keep your hydraulic oil scrupulously clean, any contaminants in it, at such high pressures act like a cutting paste & will quickly wear things prematurely & cause failures in your hydraulic system. With HEUI injectors & HPOP in the Navistar 7.3 liter T444E engines, they don’t have a separate clean hydraulic oil supply, like hydraulic equipment does, they use the dirty black sump oil contaminated with all those black soot particles as the high pressure hydraulic oil! Well if you don’t keep your sump oil scrupulously clean, then those soot particles at 2000 psi HPOP pressures operating inside your HEUI injectors is exactly the same as having a hydraulic heavy machinery plant item operating with contaminated hydraulic fluid, which operated like a cutting / grinding paste, on the internal components of your HEUI injectors, & wears them out prematurely! On the 7.3 V8 T444E engine, there’s 8 of those HEUI injectors, that when worn out need replacing & last time I got a quote from Ford Australia spare parts supply they were over $Aus 1100 each! (So $8800 a set of 8 just for the parts never mind labor for fitting). All up over $10K to have my local Ford dealer do the replacement for 8 new injectors! Diesel engine oil has very high detergent content in the oil add pack components to help keep soot particles in suspension in the oil do that as much as possible gets drained out at each oil change interval. Because of this the soot is always in suspension & thus always being fed thru the HPOP to the HEUI injectors at 2000PSI & acting like a cutting paste wearing away $10K worth of injectors prematurely that you will have to pay to replace! If you fit aftermarket cotton wound sub micron bypass filtration system like the one from oilguard, or I think Amsol make a system as well, then you can constantly keep filtering out soot particulates smaller than 1 micron, which means the oil being used at high pressure to operate your injectors is squeaky clean, & thus not operating like a cutting paste coz there’s little to non soot particulates in it! Even after 10,000 kms at oil change time, when I wipe the dipstick clean of oil with white paper towel the oil looks basically clear like its new from the 5 gallon drum! If you look really close you can see the slightest of grey tinge in it from the smallest of soot particles that do pass thru the cotton wound sub micron filter bypass kit from Oilguard USA. If your REALLY pedantic about oil cleanliness you COULD go ahead and fit a centrifuge oil filter like FIAT Diesel engines came standard with, and using centrifugal force these will remove even the very finest soot particles that a sub micron cotton wound bypass filter doesn’t remove, but fitting them can be somewhat tricky, because the oil from them has to find its way back to the sump via gravity, and the plumbing to achieve this has to be either via a “T” fitted to the dip stick tube or thru a banjo fitting on your oil filler cap or you have to tap & braze weld a fitting thru the side of your sump pan. If the filter has to be mounted higher than for eg your oil filler cap for gravity to feed the oil back to the sump, & the oil filler cap is usually on top of your valve cover near the top of the engine, there’s no where practical inside the engine bay that’s high enough to mount the filter! The old Landrover Discovery Diesel engines had a proprietary brand centrifugal oil filter. It can be done but from an engineering point of view it’s not cheap once you start machining exported oil manifolds and running all the hard steel pipe plumbing to achieve it. So most just go with bypass sub micron filtering. In an ideal world where expense were no object, I’d choose both, but the oil guard kit is cost effective & easy DIY install. Many of the newer common rail diesels with electronic / computer controlled electronic injectors share design aspects common with the Navistar 7.3 litre T444E engine, which makes the principles described above equally applicable. The upside of all this tho in relation to diesel oil is it pretty much remains clean between changes! In addition to the bypass sub micron filtering I run Used Oil Analysis thru the US Oil Guard company and sent a second identical set of the same used oil through the local Aussie CAT dealer, for analysis as a double blind test if you will. These tests actually measure your oils soot contamination levels, along with many other interesting wear metals contents and oil add pack deterioration levels at oil change time so you can monitor your engines wear rates & stay ahead of any impending mechanical issues. Anyone wants to know about Used (And Virgin) Oil Analysis subject could do worse than to read the BITOG (Bob Is The Oil Guy) forums online where these subjects are covered in much greater detail! Heck I should have my own damn RUclips channel after this war & peace length reply! 😂
I have marine diesels and run a centrifuge, not continuously but about every 50 to 100 hours. I pull an oil test sample about once or twice a year and change oil by the test. Test has never been bad. I also have a 7.3 and run that oil thru the centrifuge. A good truck engine, but too many electronic parts for me to call it reliable. I'd rather have a Detroit 2 cycle with mechanical injectors.
I have also just fitted a bypass filter on my 7.3 a few weeks ago. The oil already had a few thousand km on it so was black but I can almost imagine I can see it becoming cleaner as I drive. I am using a Baldwin B50 filter. Where do you source your filters in Australia and would they fit the Baldwin OB1305 head unit? Cheers.
The Australian Jackmaster Classic on my 06 Pontiac Torrent im told is a 1 micron filter. I just cut a roll of Viva paper towels to fit it. The oil is always golden. The old Ford diesel tractor uses a flat head Ford V8 canister filter adapted to use a full roll of Scott 1000 toilet paper. Right now it has half a roll of Viva paper towels in it. I might have to drain the oil in the tractor if the filter and new oil added at filter change cant keep up with the soot. Black oil means nothing in a diesel engine. The big 10 quart Gulf Coast filter is 99 percent at under 1 micron. The oil will still get black. We dont normally drain oil. We depend on good oil filters and new makeup oil added. No challenge in gasoline engines. Amsoil cant do it. The cotton ones can if the cotton is compressed.
I have a 200 d lincoln welder with a Kubota motor. I change the oil every 100 hours which equates to 6000 mile and it old gets dirty the last 10 hours or so. I have always taken very good care of it. Bought it new. Just throwing it out.
A local diesel shop (factory authorized by Mack, Cummins, Cat, and Detroit) has a regular customer. He runs compounds with add on lift pumps and more fuel mods than I can remember. It was an over-road 855 Cummins. When they ran it "full fuel" the oil consumption ramped way up. I theorized that since they were pushing so much fuel, the rings were not sealing and were actually floating between the rings and cylinder, thus more oil left on the cylinder walls. What do you and the community think?
Even older diesels without the d e f fluid the oil turn black very soon after the change it's just how diesels are doesn't mean the oil is bad stick to the prescribed maintenance and you will be okay
Gas engines before smog control, would have clean oil for 1000 miles or more. After smog control I noticed most gas engines went to dished pistons and lower compression. Oil turned sooty almost right away. In the 1960s I could run a Frantz toilet paper bypass filter on a gas engine and keep almost new oil look for 50,000 miles with a couple TP changes. After smog devices, the toilet paper was no longer enough to keep the oil clean. Most of my life has been with marine diesels. I run a centrifuge and can get the soot out.
I hear you I started in 1963 with a Frantz oil cleaner and Standard Delo 100 30W. The oil was always black soon after an oil change. With the Frantz the oil turned golden and stayed that way. The Rambler American flat head 6 came factory equipped with a piece crap spin on bypass filter bolted to the head upside down. It went in the trash. They were about a 10 micron filter. The Mazda diesel pickup was factory equipped with both a full flow filter and a bypass filter. It also got a Frantz. Still have the Mazda filter mount. Forgot to remove the Frantz before selling it. Told the guy I would put the Mazda bypass filter back on. He told me to keep it. I went with the top loaders in the 80s. The only thing that fits the Frantz these days is the Frantz paper. The Pontiac Torrent has a Australian Jackmaster Classic. Great little filter. Been using Great Value 1000 from Walmart in mine. Cut a cartridge from a roll of VIVA paper towels yesterday. Thats what I have been using in the flat head Ford V8 canister filter. Its on the Ford diesel tractor.
Never had any problems keeping the oil looking new in a gasoline engine with or without emissions control.. I quit worrying about black oil in a diesel years ago. Black oil can be clean the same as red transmission fluid.
It is possible to flush diesel engine (they are actually normally cleaner inside than a gasoline engine). To completely flush a diesel engine normally takes 4-6 back to back flushes with the cheapest oil you can find. The newly poured in oil will stay clear for relatively long time, at least a few thousand km. My dads diesel oil is actually always clean because he changes it every 3000-5000 km as he doesn't drive much. And that's been this way for the last 17 years since I bought him this car and flushed the engine using about 30l of dirt cheap oil.
@@ralphwood8818 you only need to deep clean it once, or maybe every 50k. Then you just do regular changes. And btw, oil is oil. You cannot contaminate expensive oil with cheap oil. 5% of cheap fresh oil is in no way worse than 5% of old warn out expensive oil, which is always left inside the engine. Also, we are not talking formula 1 engines here.
I’ve had landcruiser 100 series 4.2 turbo diesel which I bought with 280,000 on the clock it has now hit 500,000 and my oil has always been a honey colour like a petrol car.. now I do change it every 5000 but even the day I got it it was quite clear on the dip stick and I found out I’m not the only one with the same motor to experience this. I know it’s a direct injection type but why is it different from my hilux with a 3 ltr D4D diesel which turns black straight away..
yeah, same here I have a 1975 era john Deere, it runs 60-80 per year and the oil is just as brown as gasoline engine. Our newier 2008 John Deere runs 20hours or less and the oil is dark as a car tire. But the info is good, I think it also a factor that rings in gasoline engine also seal better over diesel. One thing that was not mention, the type of oil determine how dirty it gets at change interval. Example red-line diesel engine oil is way cleaner than my T4 rotella. Maybe they have better cleaning or additives in the oil. Mag-1 is also better than regular non syntheic diesel oils and both of these are 2x the cost more than rotella T4. Rotella t6 would be a better oil that also stays cleaner longer than T4. I run t4 or T6 in almost everything at my home outside of the polaris which uses 4 cycle motorcycle Mobile Syntethic
Diesel engines the more you operate them, the more they idol, even under full load it doesn't make a difference the engine will soot up and carbon up the engine oil. More especially, if the engine has what Catapillar calls CGI and what all other manufactures call EGR systems. Cummins in retrospect to Catapillar, has the same problem and frequent customer complaints of this problem. Although, like adept ape says this is not a problem this is normal. I am a lead tech at a cummins and shop just like adept ape is at the shop he works at, very frequently I get customer complaints of jet black engine oil being a problem. Most often I tell them they can change their oil every 12,000 miles versus every 15,000 or 25,000 miles. This will help on the blackness of the engine oil but it will not remove this blackness from the engine oil. I've seen fresh overhauled engines within the amount of 5000 miles have black engine oil. This is of no consequence to the engine if proper maintenance schedules are adhered to. As far as manufactures go, I have seen this black engine oil would be more of an actual problem in Detroit diesel engines rather than most other engine manufacturers. This is due to the fact that Detroit diesel engines seem to run a lot dirtier than Catapillar, Cummins, Mack and/or Volvo engines.
Good points. I have always wondered about the amount of engineered EGR each engine contributes to the combustion process, which of course would find entry into the oil pan. I have always advised friends to steer clear of the heavy egr engines if possible, and if not, increase the oil change frequencies.
Chad Jessup having an EGR or CGI engine is of no consequence. The contribution of an EGR vs Non-EGR isn't a performance issue. They do tend to run a little dirtier as far as the engine oil is concerned, but drivers that want mpg's while hauling should use an EGR or CGI engine. EGR simply lowers the combustion temps for emissions reasons. It also help the engine spray less fuel due to unburnt hydrocarbons being recirculated for the next combustion process hence the term exhaust gas recirculation system or better known as EGR or CGI.
I was just curious about the amount of recirculated exhaust gas added to the combustion process that was required to bring the engine into emission compliance by lowering NOX. Our trucks equipped with the Cummins BCIII 400 (NOX lowered by retarding the injection timing) achieved 6.5 mpg on the same haul that outside trucks with similar HP and EGR only reached 5.5 mpg. My brother's company trucks with N14's lasted 1.5M miles and averaged 6.4 mpg, while his newer trucks with Cummins "heavy" EGR engines were lucky to go 700K averaging 5.8 mpg (along with increased oil change frequency) - same loads and cab configuration. His newer 2015 ISX is doing much better.
Chad Jessup all I can say bud is just like anything else it takes time and practice along with trial and error to figure out the right way to make something work. The engines that came between the N14 and current 2017 product I guess you can say were lab rat engines. It wasn't till about or around the 2013 product where the EGR system and emission system really started to get fine-tuned. Previous ISX engines like the old CM 570s CM 870s in CM 871s were major downfalls as far as the EGR systems emissions compliance. Cummins now offers a 450 hp economy 15 liter ISX and they also offer a 630 hp high output ISX. The 630 hp engine is all about performance and not miles per gallon, while the 450 hp economy engine is geared towards miles per gallon specifically. The economy 450 hp engine uses adaptive learn, cruise control, engine brakes and fuel economy along with emissions control. The economy 450 HP engine uses the newest ADEPT system to max out the mpg's with decent power. The 630 hp engine is just a balls to the wall power house for those who need to be emissions legal but, don't give a crap about mpg's! All I can say is, the engines I work on that are equipped with the EGR system and after treatment systems seem to make decent power and have pretty OK fuel economy. I can't say that for other engines, in other vehicles, in other parts of the country. One big difference in power, economy and hauling capability is the application and where you're at in the country. This is going to depict how your engine runs and performs.
I with you on all that. In the future, it would be great, if possible, to eliminate EGR, because the slight fuel/power gain currently from those poorly combustible unburned hydrocarbons (UHC) reintroduced into the combustion chamber are offset to a higher degree by the extra soot in the oil (equals additional wear), but more importantly, those UHC result from lower combustion temperatures (necessary for lower NOX) causing less fuel oxidation, thus a decrease in power and fuel economy. As I am no longer a member of SAE, I cannot easily just plug into the relevant articles and forward them to you, but I will see what I can find in my personal library.
The main reason of oil turn black in diesel engines isn’t blow by. The diesel combustion produce soot 360* in all the combustion chamber including the cylinder walls. So basically in the power stroke cylinder walls are covered in black soon and then in the exhaust stroke all that black soot it washed away by engine oil, and this cycle is repeated again and again.
We have all gone through this "Phase of WTF" when we change our diesel's engine oil and it's black the next morning!!! I went and changed it again filled oil filter the whole nine and again the next day getting fuel. I checked it and it was black? A tear went down my cheek. I have now put over a million miles and still running strong little blow by but no problems.
With clean hands wipe the black oil on the palm. Wipe it around. If it feels clean and slick and doesnt stain the skin it has passed the old truckers palm test. If you worry about black oil in a diesel you will get ulcers. I use 1 micron bypass filters. My oil still gets black.
Good video. Just purchased a 2012 dodge....the oil is black. Changed it again....still black. Changed it a third time. And its still black. Will seafoam help this motor out. What can I do to flush the carbon out. The motor is stock. Not deleted. 82000 miles on the motor. Used as a hot shot truck. Thanks.
Is the color really an indicator of bad performance or harm to your engine? As long as the fuel is viscous & the compounds & solvents are still intact that's all you need to worry about.
I have a 3 cylinder Mitsubishi diesel in my tractor and a 1994 Chevy truck with a 6.5 turbo diesel. When I change the oil and filter, start it up for 5 minutes, then check it, it's totally black. In both engines the oil turns black immediately after an oil change.
Perhaps the oil color issue varies depending on what Diesel engine it is? My Mahindra tractor never has black oil and it’s at its 200 hour service interval now. The dipstick shows some color in the oil but it’s def not black. Perhaps the color will be more pronounced when I actually drain it though.
The object is to convert liquid chemical energy into useful work. Without exception the liquid fuel is some form of hydrocarbon. Thermal Efficiency is the percentage of the btu's in the fuel that gets converted to useful work. Gasoline engines historically have been very low, 20% to 25%, but may now be getting close to 30%. Diesels started out around 33% and perhaps are as high as 50% by now . We are talking strictly about internal combustion engines where fuel combustion takes place inside each cylinder of any given engine. Metallic parts, in a dry state rubbing against each other, wear out very rapidly; therefore, a film of lube oil must continually separate all moving parts at all times. THIS INCLUDES THE INSIDE SURFACE OF ALL CYLINDER WALLS. Combustion takes place in a cylinder and the lube oil film on the cylinder wall gets sprayed with molecular sized unburned hydrocarbon particles. This oilfilm gets scraped off and replaced by new oil film. Some of the hc particles get carburized during combustion and will rapidly turn the lube oil into a very dark brown. It slowly turns the lube oil into sludge which is almost black - this is an example of very bad engine maintenance. Dr. Diesel, in his very first prototype engine used extremely finely powdered coal dust as his first fuel type. They immediately switched to liquid fuel.
Can these oil engine “additives/ flusher” that are added before oil is dropped help to clear the engine / oil. Or is it simply better to just make oil changes more frequent, therefore in the long run having a cleaner, long lasting engine? Thanks for a great video.
So I have had a diesel for two years now and my oil would start to turn black after like 3000km, recently got a diesel for my mother also and noticed hers turn black few days after oil change. My mechanic could not explain or I’ll say convince me why it’s that way. Thanks man
I used to run a 93 Frieghtliner with a 190 hp Cummins. After 5000 km or 3000 miles the oil would start to darken, and by 8000km or 5000 miles it would look dirty, not black.
bought a 6.5turo gm had a good mech but alas noone lasts forever didnt mid learning basics with gas motors eve rebuilt a few dpecils a new world thanks for the videoes learning a lot peace nick
One simple reason why diesel engine oil turn black very quickly after oil change is because diesel engine is higher pressure combustion than petrol engine which get the burning smoke push through the gap of cylinder and mix the oil. Diesel smoke is blacker than petrol smoke.
I bought a Mercedes 240D years ago. I had the oil changed at my mechanics and a few days later checked it and it was black. I brought it back and asked if he changed the oil. He laughed and said you never owned a diesel before have you. I said no.
I was a mercedes mechanic my whole career. Yes, when you drain oil, you will never drain it all. So the new oil will be black immediately. This is due to the combustion material getting by the rings which is normal. It's just carbon,
@@georgecurtis6463 still a Mercedes mechanic?
@@dineshkrishna809 sorry, no. I retired 14 years ago.
@@georgecurtis6463 curious, what years were you a mechanic? I bought my first classic Mercedes recently: 1980 300SD
@@MrRjnr from 1971 to 2006. Course I probably forgot half of what I knew.
After teaching maintenance and repair vocational classes for over 27 years, I have to say that your presentations are well done and easy to understand. A couple of years ago I bought a 2003 Winnebago diesel pusher with a Cat 3126 330 hp which is starting to give me some problems. Since I do a lot of my maintenance and repairs I have learned a lot from your videos. On the way home from a trip the check engine light came on and the the rv slowed to 45 mph, after a few minutes of this the engine power came back up and I could go normal speed. After stopping, shutting the engine off, and sitting for a few minutes I restarted the engine and drove another 150 miles without a problem. After arriving home a month went by I took the rv to fill it up with fuel and drove it back home - - no problems! I start it once a month and run it a few minutes at a high idle to keep it dried out and lubricated. The last time I did it when I brought it back to low idle and the engine started bucking and shut down and now it won't start. Thank you for the videos - - I am now doing the trouble-shooting according to your advice,.
Thanks for putting this up, I bought my first Diesel Car yesterday and while I decided to do a little check just to make sure the dealer had done what he said he would do, shock horror when I checked the dipstick and the oil was black....so on to the phone and he assured me this was normal and from watching this you have confirmed that I wasn't being duped... Thanks
Just bought my first diesel and had the same concern!
finally the information I was looking for. I bought my first diesel car 3 months ago and just checked the oil for the first time. I was starting to get worried, Thank you for this video!
It is just plain fun to view these intelligent, well presented videos. At the fleet shop of my current employment, I have the luxury of allowing engines to drain over night, which allows one extra gallon of old engine oil from a 3406E to exit the pan. That, coupled with proper maintenance intervals and converting to CAT oil filters (from the imitations), resulted in the new oil amber color remaining visible much, much longer, plus when the oil is due to be changed the next time, it isn't so thick and black as before. Prior to this approach, one could fire up the engine and not really tell if the oil had been changed.
Unfortunately, that overnight situation is not available to dealerships and most fleet shops.
Chad Jessup Good move going to the Cat filters! There isn't a better filter for diesel engines out there in my opinion. Bullet proof design and premium flow with excellent filtration. I also use the Mystic 15w 50 oil in my 1996 W9 3406e and it takes a while for it to darken up. I also switched my thermostat to a 180° from Pittsburgh Power. I know it has nothing to do with the oil but I'm in the southeast where it gets pretty toasty as well as humid. So my engine runs cooler which also works well with the synthetic blend oil. My engine oil doesn't break down as fast due to my cooler engine temperature and you know heat breaks down everything in the long run. Also dynoflex muffler took alotta back pressure off the turbo which also runs cooler and helps the oil last longer. I also try to stick to one type of fuel (Pilot Mostly) but BP is nice and Quick Trip is ok with a shot of Diesel Clean. Just wanted to throw that in the pot...lol.✌
Do you know who make Cat filters?
Mystic brand oil is CITGO Oil Co from Communist Venezuela.
You don't necessarily want cooler temp, best is optimum temp, which would be whatever the engine came with new.
Allan McCullough Yes i know who makes Cat filters! Nothing to do with the performance and quality. And could careless what Venezuela do on their turf as long as children aren't working the oil fields and platforms! But here in the states via Citgo, Mystic oils are a great product. And my truck operates at a efficient and cool temp. 180° is real nice on the big kitty! Even under a load she still runs cool. They come with a 210° that starts to open at 190°. That might be good up north but not down here in the south. Especially the deep south where i run also. Had my tech run a full diagnostic. He couldn't believe the numbers on a 1996 first year E motor with over 800,000 miles. All my injectors were at the same numbers and very little blow by and decent fuel pressure. Gonna change the spring on the fuel transfer pump and bring it up alittle more. Cat engines are a whole different animal compared to Detroit and Cummins! Lots of moving parts.
Cat filters are made by Advanced Filtration Systems Inc. It is a joint venture between Caterpillar and Donaldson, and all they make is Cat filters.
Chad Jessup there is a liquid product that you pour in the oil and then you warm the engine for about 10 minutes and then you start to drain it. This product also makes deposits to left the engine with the old oil. Currently they are in cans (like pepsi lol) and one can is for 3 changes (1/3 of the can for about 5 liters). I think this combined with longer drainage is the best. But, if you drain longer then you have to pour the new oil and then actually wait 2 or more hours before the first start.
Short answer its a form of soot control in the engine and in capturing this soot it turns jet black and will "tattoo you" as lube techs say.
yeppers,,, done..!
I'm not tan, I've just spilled a lot of diesel oil on myself.
It's a nightmare to clean off of skin.
I call it finger paint.
@@Ratkill9000 When i checked the oil on a diesel car i tried to wipe the oil from the dipstick and it needed a lot of wipes to clear that off...
Thanks bro! Got a 2019 ram ecodiesel and checked my oil when I finally got it home...
Changed the oil immediately and after a ride around the block, my oil was black!
Since it's Christmas, I'm obviously not able to get into a shop...
Your video put me at ease! Thanks
All my Diesel engines are spotless. I have spent a lot of time cleaning them out inside and out and change the oil and filters often. My oil comes out nice and clean, still Carmel colour. I'm very happy with it as my engines run superb. A clean engine is a happy engine.
I got a Pete 389 with C15 SDPXXX, I service it myself with intervals of 11k -12K miles even though CAT recommends up to 30K miles. As you know these engines have the DPF system on them, and after a while they become pain in the butt, and break the bank account. I bought the truck with 470K on the engine, can't remember how many hours, but, it couldn't have idled a lot because there is an TK APU on it that I call a life saver. At first, I used to change the oil at a service station, and every time the tech used to show me the deep stick after a fill up to assure the oil level, the oil used to be gold color, and it took a while before it turned black. After a couple of DPF clean ups, I started having all sorts of problems from clogged filter to bad sensors ...etc. I had to take care of the dam thing once and for all, and I did. Since then, truck runs, and sounds like a totally different truck, and when I change the oil, I have a hard time checking the oil level because it's so clean, and it runs like that for few thousand miles before it turns totally black, I would say somewhere between 7-8 K miles, BTW, the truck has 960K miles, and about 23400K operating hours.
I work at an oil shop, and just asked our tech this question yesterday when a diesel came in.
just what I wanted to hear. Switched from gasoline to diesel after a 30+ years of caring and tending my cars with passion. My new car is still under warranty and I really had serious doubts had the service guy really done the oil change (very tidy or no job: no oiled areas around filter base, drain plug, nothing). The color of oil though HAS changed (lost the amount of black) but far from what I experienced from my gasoline cars. Thx again, just the amount of information I needed for a piece of mind :-)
Thank you. We bought a "new" 2004 Kenworth with my son in law. Now, without all the logs, who knows how often the oil was changed? So first things first, the oil was changed. 2,000 miles later it was changed again and after 4,500 miles the oil looks new - no soot. Some one basically took care of the truck. I'm going to watch more of your videos. Being neither a mechanic nor a driver I need your educational videos. FYI, we did have some problems with the fuel filters and we did what I did with my boat - add some tank cleaner and change the filter, repeat the process and then cut down on the cleaner until the filter looks clean when you cut it open - which we did for six filters. Last filter looks great after 2,500 miles so we just need to put a protocol in the log book so it is done on a regular basis. I think this truck sat for some time before we bought it so we will maintain it as though maintenance was not done for a while. Again, thanks for your videos. My 32' offshore fishing boat is gas so I have little problems storing it over the winter - just some gas stabilizer and off we go. I could not afford diesels or the maintenance at the time - nor now that I am retired.Sent you an email with a question: Could you expect a Mack with 775,000 miles on it have a catastrophic exhaust valve failure when the Mack engineers increased the HP from 415hp to 485hp? I would still appreciate an answer. Again, thank you so much for the videos. I have spent 53 years fixing middle market companies but I am grossly ignorant about things mechanical.
Changing the oil after 2000 miles, how does it feel to burn money?
30 second vid... it is soot in the oil.
I think this was an excellent vid.
We just bought a 1 year old 2500 HD Diesel…. Dealership said “we did and oil change”…. I checked it was black about 2000 miles after…
Was annoyed about it… found your vid apparently it’s normal after checking other resources…. Thanks makes sense. !
I’d never owned a diesel before this.
Thank you for the explanation. I bought my first diesel truck about 6 months ago. (17 250). Had the first oil change done by the dealer (Ford), and then checked the oil about a month after and saw it was black. I thought that they messed me up and basically charged me for an oil change that they didn't do. About a month ago I decided to change the oil myself using the same Motorcraft oil they used. Filter was changed as well. I was thinking maybe I need to delete the truck due to the soot in the oil. I probably will do that anyway but now I can relax a bit regarding the oil as now I know it's a normal process with these diesel engines!!!
Very thorough explanation, thank you.
After I drain the old oil, I add a cheap same grade oil and run the engine to operating temp, then drain and add oem oil to get rid of as much soot as possible. I know it's a bit of a waste of oil during process but it's been so annoying to see a black oil straight after a change. And it's much still cheaper than taking it to a mechanic.
And while you're at it, the next time your tank's empty, dump your dirty oil into your fuel tank before putting in the Diesel. You can save some money on fuel, too.
@@electric7487 I am keeping the old oil for poor people like you, so let me know if you can't afford it, i can post my old oil to you.
@@bmwsolutions7880 💀💀
My engine takes atleast 2000km to show some blackness in the oil. (Now it's not a truck but a 2.4D Toyota Hiace... which absolutely runs like a dream) Every 8000km there's an oilchange and inbetween there's a enginecleaner additive.... But therefore i also mix some engine oil with the Diesel too make the fuel richer again.
I gues the engine is in great shape! Thanks for the video!
Toyota Hiace coupled with its cousin the Mitsubishi L300 must have been some of the most reliable pieces of machinery ever made in Japan. And they are working class vehicles too, meaning they are not botomless moneypits like most cars, but they bring money to your pocket too...
Super helpful, I'm only a few weeks into owning my first diesel and was quite alarmed at the super dark oil color not even halfway through my oil change interval!
i did asways wonder why the oil did turn so black so quick,thank you for the info i can notch this off of my bucket list of things to know
Can prevent black oil by using a engine oil bypass oil filter down to 1-2micron and reduced fittings to limit flow,
Cat C-12 for example have these standard, they should do same for 15’s and 16’s, oil will stay amber with low micron filters.
Side note : EGR quadruples soot load in oil
Another thing to consider is that the full flow oil filter only filters out particles around 20-25 microns and larger, thus leaving all the smaller particles free to flow in the oil. In order to combat that, a bypass oil filtration system can be installed. These can filter particles up to 2 microns and smaller out of the oil thus giving it a cleaner look without the sooty look
But you run the risk of bypassing a big enough particle to wreck one of your main bearings.
The Jackmaster Classic claims 1 micron if you use their elements. My flat head Ford V8 has been converted to use a 4 1/2 inch roll of Scott 1000. That is as good as you can get. It wont get all of the soot. The oil in the old Ford diesel is as black as it can get. The oil feels good is slick and doesnt stain the skin. It passes the palm test. The full flow filter wll handle the big stuff. The small soot will be either filtered out or be diluted by new make up oil. I probably wont go over 30 hours without changing the toilet paper and adding a quart of new oil. I probably wont drain the oil. It uses heavy duty 30 weight off road diesel oil.
Thats a Ford diesel tractor
Soot actually is used as a pigment, they just call it carbon black. Look on any can of black rustoleum and you will see it listed as an ingredient. Thanks for the videos, you have a knack for explaining things scientifically accurate without bias, I am getting tired of people thinking they are diesel geniuses because they read how to turn up the fuel on their "cummings" engines in 8 lug magazine....!
Accurate info. And yes, there is a bunch of oil left in the gallery. I have a 2001 7.3 F-350 and I believe both heads hold over 2 quarts total. 👍
Thanks for sharing . 1st time owner of a diesel and was wondering why the oil changed so fast.
Thanks for the explanation. I just did an oil change on my Audi Q3 TDI and when topping up and checking dipstick I noticed the oil was already black. Only ever done oil changes on petrol engines before so that was a surprise. P.S. Subscribed.
Excellent video! 👍👍👍
I agree much soot ending up in the oil is only a cosmetic issue since particle sizes are so small they are below clearances in rotating parts of the engine. Manufacturers have been observing dark diesel oil for a long time and if there was an issue effecting warranties ($$$$ for the manufacturers) the situation would have been dealt with long ago.
very true about all the oil not being fully removed. I always drain my oil hot and leave it over night to refill with new oil and by the morning the pan is still dripping out some oil
Pretty good video. But I would have touched on how dirty looking diesel fuel looks vs gas vs propane .
Obviously propane burns really clean and most oil change intervals can be extended vs diesel or gas . Great vid
finally found a proper explanation to my dilemma.
That pretty much explains it. I dont normally drain oil. I change the toilet paper filter and add a lot of make up oil. I am keeping the oil as clean as possible and diluting the soot too small to be filtered out. If I cant stay ahead of the submicronic soot I will drain the oil. Its easy on the Pontiac. I cant see the soot on the dipstick. I can see it if I put it in a gallon wine jug. I normally change the toilet paper and add a quart of oil every 6.000 miles on the Pontiac. A lot more often on the Ford diesel tractor. Some bypass filter makers mislead by showing the oil before it naturally gets black.
I installed a brand new Cummins ISX 600 in my older Motor-coach, since I didn’t need the emissions system on my year, I removed the EGR and the DPF system that cane with that engine, and since I keep my oil clean and never allowed it to go black in the first place, it actually still looks like honey after 10,000 miles. I change it every 10K and my engine oil has never gone black. ALSO, my onboard Kubota generator runs perfectly clean if I change it every 50-80 hours.... basically I don’t allow my oil to go black, and when I do an oil change, it stays clear
Nice informative video. I have 2 ,7.3 ford diesel motors. One turns black a short time after an oil change and the other is pretty clean looking even after 3000 miles.
7.3 have over a gallon just in the heads. Only was to drain is to pull high pressure pump. So the 3 gallon oil change is only 75% of the oil gets changed everytime. Owned multiple, but also installed a few under warranty at the dealership.
Makes sense. I bored out a 360 to 366 and Rebuilt the entire thing. ran it with 15w40 diesel oil . its been 6000 miles and the oil is still clean as all hell. as to where out cat 3116 which we run with the same oil, gets dirty super quick. thanks for the video, man!
King Kai in
+frankyboy290 ?
so happy you stated that correctly " oil galley". not gallery, so often people state that wrong.
+chris keiley I say plenty of other stuff wrong.
I am sure I do plenty of things wrong. nobody is perfect, but "oil gallery" sounds like an art gallery for oil paintings or something
Adept Ape As far as I know a galley used to be known as a cooking area on sailing ships
No idea how this misconception got started but the correct term was/is "Oil Gallery."
If "Galley" is in common usage though and everyone knows what is meant, then I say, no harm done.
You'll get darker oil quicker during normal running and not idle, higher combustion pressure = more blowby and also more fuel injected to create soot.Also, combustion products create acidic mixture (especially if there's a lot of sulphur in the fuel) so its important to have a high TBN (Total Base Number) rating in your oil to make sure it neutralises this and keeps the engine corrosion free
neardood1 Idling a vehicle from start-up also means the components haven't expanded due to heat yet. A great opportunity for blow-by. This is likely what he is referring to.
It is the EGR valve. Disable it & the oil will stay reasonably clean.
This man deserves more attention.
+Eltnit Thank you.
I'm Field Service for 35+ years chasing yellow iron.New hire was truck mechanic and I'm open minded.How he does oil change.
Drain oil pan,don't remove filter.Fill engine with diesel fuel to full mark on dipstick.Start engine and let it idle 3-4 minutes.Drain pan,change filter and fill with fresh engine oil.
*
when making an oil change on any engine have always done this:
let engine completely drain...
then refill with fresh oil and new filter...
then drive vehicle for 100 miles to 500 miles...
then replace oil filter with new oil filter plus oil equivalent...
allows filter to do its job...
while keeping original oil in the crankcase...
after clearing the residual debris that always settles in the bottom of the oil pan...
summary:
one oil change 2 filters...
makes all the difference in the world
^
I’m starting school in February 2020 and these vids are so helpful for an insight on what I’m getting into
I own a truck trailer and perform a oils change every 40 thousand miles never problems, in winter weather apply 10w30 and Summer hot weather 15w40 working like a rockstar,
A weird experience on diesels for me is driving a 2005 GMC 2500 with a turbocharged Duramax diesel that has over 350,000 miles on it. No rebuilds or breakdowns. I use Rotella 20W50 synthetic and change every 6,000 - 7,000 miles. The engine runs great and has a ton of power. Every time I check the oil, the oil will stay new-bottle clear for thousands of miles before darkening slightly, which tells me that the design of the engine internals, esp. the rings is superb. In contrast, my Mercedes is completely black after 100 miles.
That’s how it is with my Duramax as well. I thought something was wrong because my dads Cummins oil is always black.
Maybe soot could be used to make printer toner? lol
+BigDish101 You could be onto an environmental gold mine there.
Someone get this guy a go fund me
ye historically black ink was just carbon from soot
It's used for traditional and prison tattooing. Though obviously that's not Diesel soot :p
Thanks a lot for your explanations! I've some older Perkins engines around here (non turbo) with much idle time and the oil is almost instantly black. Now, I get why :)
I worked on an Oliver with one of those engines. Those are some of the nastiest smelling engines ever. Damn reliable though.
Somborn Perkins is very reliable engine but also a dirty engine, if the oil is left too long It will tend to turn solid, when omission testing came into annual testing Perkins had to have an exstension to meet the limits along with rolls diesels
Rolls cat and Cummings all had turbo lags whitch causes the puffs of smoke so often seen on films with temporary over fueling. black smoke ..equals excess fuel. Blue equals unburnt fuel
Try a little bit of that orange hand cleaner to help your dirty work wear and oil spots before you put it into the washing machine. Works great!
all diesels ive encounted did this... except one, we have a Massey Ferguson tractor with several thousand hours on it, and it still doesnt create a lot of soot. Even when it comes time to change the oil, it always seems to look as clean as ever.
I had a TOYOTA Car that Got 1C Diesel Engine, One day while I was Changing Engine Oil, the Technician didn't Fixed the Oil-Filter correctly, the Moment I Start the Engine Very Dark, Black Engine Oil Start Dipping out of the Filter Bay.
I was Shocked, coz I saw him Poured 1 Gallon Yellowish Engine Oil into the Engine just a Minute ago, but it Turned into Black Mud instantly.
Today I learn Why it was So.
2012 Dodge Ram 2500 6.7 Cummins 215000 miles. ROTELLA 5W40 OR Valvoline 5w40 what ever is on sale at the local napa. Platinum filter 5000k change intervals. Oil is honey color at oil changes. And fuel filter is changed every other oil change. Deleted with stock power tune. Love it
Good info. In 1963 I put a toilet paper filter on my nearly new Rambler American flat head 6. Used Delo 100 W 30. The oil went from dirty and black to like new and stayed that way. I thought the same would happen with the Peugeot diesel. It wasnt going to happen.
Awesome video, I'm about to start Diesel school in the fall. Your videos have been very informative!
Its normal.used high detergent oil and change oil and filters on regular basis,no worry.Worry if your oil is still clean after a weeks worth of running.
I have just bought a 2009 Mercedes ml320 bluetec diesel engine it has 118,400 miles. I changed the oil and filter. It still runs like brand new. Used a 5w30 full synthetic oil. I also changed the transmission filter and fluid.
I had a 2000 pete with 99 550 cat in it an that was the cleanest running engine I have ever seen. It would take around 5,000 miles before the oil got dirty looking.
Th Y for a very good comment.
Another thing to note - Carbon is actually fairly slippery. Its presence in engine oil isn't the end of the world! Take a graphite pencil (It's all carbon.) and press hard onto some paper and fill in a little box of pencil lines. Then once you have a little pad of pencil graphite, just slide your finger over it. It's slick.Some powder will stick to your finger. Your fingers will now be slippery.
Same goes for the soot. Obviously too much isn't great, but the particles are small and shouldn't cause any damage as long as they don't build up and create a blockage somewhere.
Liam 4.0
Different forms of carbon
Pencils are graphite who’s is actually used as an EP agent (with molybdenum as well) in a lot of greases usually the black ones
Carbon is hard and abrasive, engine oils use a dispersent to stop the carbon sticking to other carbon forming damaging clumps
This additive is a “consumable” and once it’s all used up carbon can clump into damaging sizes this is when the oil feels gritty or rough when squeezed between your finger
Change oil before it gets to this
I hear you. My oil gets black but it is still slick and doesnt stain the skin. If you get to the point where you can feel the soot it might be too late. Soot under one micron might not be an abrasive but if it keeps building up in the oil it is also not a lubricant. I dont allow my soot levels to get too high. Ive heard of it bunching up.
I took advise from another RUclips video, to change the engine oil when it's no longer blonde.
As I own two diesel cars I can get to the shops and back , and then I immediately replace the oil.
I've been doing this for six years.
I'm now insane.
We had an old John Deere 4440 from the 70's and there was nothing on earth that smoked worse than that beast. Then the dealer said to mix 1/3 kerosene to 2/3 diesel fuel and it cut the smoke in half when started and once it got warmed up and moving, it burned much more cleanly. Now, I do that with my Cummins Dodge. I cut it back 1/4 to 3/4 but it runs so much cleaner and it has better performance all the way around. A little more pricey and pain in the ass, but worth it, especially in the cold months.
smacman68 a. Bad idea in u.k. if caught on a roadside check with H.m. customs and excise you get a very large fine and have to pay backtax
Re Keith Ramsden and his post about fuel fiddlers. A lot depends on who the culprit is. If he or she is a "Traveller" (The old names for them are now deemed to be racist) the authorities won't usually bother as the paperwork for "no fixed abode" would be horrendous. Another thing is that the UK has 43 police forces not counting the Transport Police and officers will often try to "bounce" dealing with a crime onto a different force. For example if an uninsured lorry smashes into your car when you are in a different police area from where you live, each police force may claim that dealing with the crime is the other force's responsibility! Been there done that but in spite of "Gold Standard" Comprehensive Plus Insurance with Legal Assistance Cover I never got a penny.
Between the start of September 2016 and the end of December 2016 I've had four cars and a boat trailer stolen in two separate thefts. The latter case of a 4x4 and boat trailer vanishing somehow involves the driver of what I now regard as a bogus recovery vehicle. Unfortunately the chief suspect is being protected by the Data Protection Act! Britain is fubar!
Curiously when a panda car was stolen from a police station in Cornwall and joy-ridden THAT was not just a Civil Matter as the Bonnie and Clyde duo were jailed! As in George Orwell's book 1984. "In the end some people became more equal than others".
ck-4 and Fa-4 oil standard promise to improve oxidation resistance
Adept Ape, I always find your videos informative, thank you.
My oil is still clean and golden after 10,000 kms of use. 100 series land cruiser 4.2lt diesel turbo
Diesel particulate filter? Oh yeah, that's the thing up in the garage loft, along with the EGR valve and stock air box. Flashed the computer and added 40 horse. Sampled the last change and Blackstone Labs says all is good. Oil stays a nice dark honey color the first couple of thousand miles. The engine seems very happy without all that stuff.
5:36 Having used activated charcoal (which is carbon) to brush my teeth a couple times and having a shirt still stained with it, I can confirm this.
Did it whiten your teeth?
@@heavnxbound I don't know, as I didn't use it for very long nor did I pay attention to that when I did use it
I have a 1987 cat d3b which is a non turbo. The oil in this dozer has never once turned black. It will stay pure golden up to around 500 hours. There's currently about 600 hours on the oil and it's still has a brown transparent look to it. It has a fair amount of blow by from the down tube and doesn't hardly burn any oil. I just can't explain it, everything else I own new or old gets black instantly.
Thanks ! I was really wondering why my oil is allways dark even tho I change it every 10000 km ... ! Even tho the producer of the car says it should be changed at 30k km ...
All those intervals above 10000km/6000mi are crap, never changed oil above that in any of my cars and they run perfect without any issues. Oil is cheap but engines are expensive and car manufacturer's goal is nothing else but to make money
I change my car's diesel engine oil/filter about every 6 months (3-5k miles) and the dipstick is still black immediately after the change (which is most annoying). 30k km seems way too long considering what engine oil does. I suspect they state that as a sales ploy so you avoid the crappy dealership during the vehicle's warranty period, then it's someone else's problem further down the line.
En pocas palabras mas se enegrese el aceite cuanto mas humosa es la combustion , En motores diesel nuevo demora mas en tiznar el aceite La combustion mejor resulta en menos humo que tiznara las paredes de las camisas ( Linner)y pasara al aceite El sopleo del motor tambien En motores que usan gas LPG como combustible el aceite no se tizna y cumple las horas estando limpio Muy buena explicacion Gracias
Juan - thanks for chipping in. Hopefully, your English is better than my Spanish. "... oil gets darker the more smokey the exhaust is." I agree as the dark exhaust shows that combustion has not be optimized, resulting in more soot getting past the piston rings into the oil pan. "Motors that use LPG for their fuel, the oil doesn't darken as quickly." True because that fuel doesn't produce as much particulate matter which can enter the oil pan.
"En motores diesel nuevo demora mas en tiznar el aceite La combustion..." I am not certain what you mean in that sentence - something about darkening around the liner. Can you provide a translation from someone? On these posts, we also learn from fellow contributors like yourself.
Adept did state a very good explanation.
Iam very happy that you respond at my letter , Well The diesel engines in good operation or new engines the Blow by is minimus and the combustion fumes are correct the exaut tube is clean .and the fumes no dark the linner wall In a old and tired engine as my Perkins 4.203 The oil is VERY DARK as my soul , because the poor engine is low of compresion: was a lot of year working and miles as two travel to the moon.! and the exaut and carter fumes can you do a pack ! The oil consumpcion is 1/4gal for 60 miles, If the oil up to the combustion chamber the fumes down to the carter OIL Is easy Thanksyou very much for your comment in You tu be
Navistar 7.3 liter T444E engine in 2004 Ford F-250. My engine oil stays clear as new for the full 10,000 km oil change interval.
Why?
Because I fitted an oil guard after market cotton wound sub micron oil bypass filter & I change the main engine filter & the bypass sub micron filter every oil change so the soot never gets a chance to build up or deposit, its always being scrubbed clean while the engine is operating.
Why do I do this?
Because this engine is somewhat different to some other Diesel engines, in that it has 2 oil pumps!
The first is your usual engine oil pump ie a gear or gear / rotor type displacement pump that sends oil thru all the lubricating galleries to bearings and cam shaft etc.
The 2nd oil pump is called a HPOP or high pressure oil pump, and is a swashbuckle style oil pump. It’s job is to take the sump oil after the first gear rotor oil pump has pressurised it to around 100-120 psi & increase that pressure - all the way up to ~2000 psi!
This high pressure oil is fed to the HEUI (Hydraulic Electric Unit Injectors). That 2000 psi oil pressure at the HEUI injector is used to pressurise the diesel fuel thru the injector at around 20,000 psi to atomise it, & engine management computer along with its Injector Drive Module located in the LH front mudguard, tell the injectors electronically when to fire the diesel into the cylinders via the CPS (Crank Position Sensor).
Any heavy equipment mechanic whose worked on hydraulic equipment will tell you that at high oil pressures, if you don’t keep your hydraulic oil scrupulously clean, any contaminants in it, at such high pressures act like a cutting paste & will quickly wear things prematurely & cause failures in your hydraulic system.
With HEUI injectors & HPOP in the Navistar 7.3 liter T444E engines, they don’t have a separate clean hydraulic oil supply, like hydraulic equipment does, they use the dirty black sump oil contaminated with all those black soot particles as the high pressure hydraulic oil!
Well if you don’t keep your sump oil scrupulously clean, then those soot particles at 2000 psi HPOP pressures operating inside your HEUI injectors is exactly the same as having a hydraulic heavy machinery plant item operating with contaminated hydraulic fluid, which operated like a cutting / grinding paste, on the internal components of your HEUI injectors, & wears them out prematurely!
On the 7.3 V8 T444E engine, there’s 8 of those HEUI injectors, that when worn out need replacing & last time I got a quote from Ford Australia spare parts supply they were over $Aus 1100 each! (So $8800 a set of 8 just for the parts never mind labor for fitting).
All up over $10K to have my local Ford dealer do the replacement for 8 new injectors!
Diesel engine oil has very high detergent content in the oil add pack components to help keep soot particles in suspension in the oil do that as much as possible gets drained out at each oil change interval.
Because of this the soot is always in suspension & thus always being fed thru the HPOP to the HEUI injectors at 2000PSI & acting like a cutting paste wearing away $10K worth of injectors prematurely that you will have to pay to replace!
If you fit aftermarket cotton wound sub micron bypass filtration system like the one from oilguard, or I think Amsol make a system as well, then you can constantly keep filtering out soot particulates smaller than 1 micron, which means the oil being used at high pressure to operate your injectors is squeaky clean, & thus not operating like a cutting paste coz there’s little to non soot particulates in it!
Even after 10,000 kms at oil change time, when I wipe the dipstick clean of oil with white paper towel the oil looks basically clear like its new from the 5 gallon drum!
If you look really close you can see the slightest of grey tinge in it from the smallest of soot particles that do pass thru the cotton wound sub micron filter bypass kit from Oilguard USA.
If your REALLY pedantic about oil cleanliness you COULD go ahead and fit a centrifuge oil filter like FIAT Diesel engines came standard with, and using centrifugal force these will remove even the very finest soot particles that a sub micron cotton wound bypass filter doesn’t remove, but fitting them can be somewhat tricky, because the oil from them has to find its way back to the sump via gravity, and the plumbing to achieve this has to be either via a “T” fitted to the dip stick tube or thru a banjo fitting on your oil filler cap or you have to tap & braze weld a fitting thru the side of your sump pan.
If the filter has to be mounted higher than for eg your oil filler cap for gravity to feed the oil back to the sump, & the oil filler cap is usually on top of your valve cover near the top of the engine, there’s no where practical inside the engine bay that’s high enough to mount the filter!
The old Landrover Discovery Diesel engines had a proprietary brand centrifugal oil filter.
It can be done but from an engineering point of view it’s not cheap once you start machining exported oil manifolds and running all the hard steel pipe plumbing to achieve it. So most just go with bypass sub micron filtering. In an ideal world where expense were no object, I’d choose both, but the oil guard kit is cost effective & easy DIY install.
Many of the newer common rail diesels with electronic / computer controlled electronic injectors share design aspects common with the Navistar 7.3 litre T444E engine, which makes the principles described above equally applicable.
The upside of all this tho in relation to diesel oil is it pretty much remains clean between changes!
In addition to the bypass sub micron filtering I run Used Oil Analysis thru the US Oil Guard company and sent a second identical set of the same used oil through the local Aussie CAT dealer, for analysis as a double blind test if you will.
These tests actually measure your oils soot contamination levels, along with many other interesting wear metals contents and oil add pack deterioration levels at oil change time so you can monitor your engines wear rates & stay ahead of any impending mechanical issues.
Anyone wants to know about Used (And Virgin) Oil Analysis subject could do worse than to read the BITOG (Bob Is The Oil Guy) forums online where these subjects are covered in much greater detail!
Heck I should have my own damn RUclips channel after this war & peace length reply! 😂
This is the best advertisement for after market cotton wound sub micron oil bypass filter I've ever read
And yes, you should have a youtube channel
I have marine diesels and run a centrifuge, not continuously but about every 50 to 100 hours. I pull an oil test sample about once or twice a year and change oil by the test. Test has never been bad. I also have a 7.3 and run that oil thru the centrifuge. A good truck engine, but too many electronic parts for me to call it reliable. I'd rather have a Detroit 2 cycle with mechanical injectors.
I have also just fitted a bypass filter on my 7.3 a few weeks ago. The oil already had a few thousand km on it so was black but I can almost imagine I can see it becoming cleaner as I drive. I am using a Baldwin B50 filter. Where do you source your filters in Australia and would they fit the Baldwin OB1305 head unit? Cheers.
That might be the longest comment in RUclips comment history.
The Australian Jackmaster Classic on my 06 Pontiac Torrent im told is a 1 micron filter. I just cut a roll of Viva paper towels to fit it. The oil is always golden. The old Ford diesel tractor uses a flat head Ford V8 canister filter adapted to use a full roll of Scott 1000 toilet paper. Right now it has half a roll of Viva paper towels in it. I might have to drain the oil in the tractor if the filter and new oil added at filter change cant keep up with the soot. Black oil means nothing in a diesel engine. The big 10 quart Gulf Coast filter is 99 percent at under 1 micron. The oil will still get black. We dont normally drain oil. We depend on good oil filters and new makeup oil added. No challenge in gasoline engines. Amsoil cant do it. The cotton ones can if the cotton is compressed.
We must also remember that soot is the basisi of carbon black color in printer toner. So it is normal that a drop of black oil will blacken the rest.
Dude, you rock
I have a 200 d lincoln welder with a Kubota motor. I change the oil every 100 hours which equates to 6000 mile and it old gets dirty the last 10 hours or so. I have always taken very good care of it. Bought it new. Just throwing it out.
Great explanation on diesel soot or My Dirty little Kitty Cat! Keep rolling those great videos.
Centrifigual filters help alot with removing all the carbon/soot out of the oil
A local diesel shop (factory authorized by Mack, Cummins, Cat, and Detroit) has a regular customer. He runs compounds with add on lift pumps and more fuel mods than I can remember. It was an over-road 855 Cummins. When they ran it "full fuel" the oil consumption ramped way up. I theorized that since they were pushing so much fuel, the rings were not sealing and were actually floating between the rings and cylinder, thus more oil left on the cylinder walls.
What do you and the community think?
Even older diesels without the d e f fluid the oil turn black very soon after the change it's just how diesels are doesn't mean the oil is bad stick to the prescribed maintenance and you will be okay
Gas engines before smog control, would have clean oil for 1000 miles or more. After smog control I noticed most gas engines went to dished pistons and lower compression. Oil turned sooty almost right away. In the 1960s I could run a Frantz toilet paper bypass filter on a gas engine and keep almost new oil look for 50,000 miles with a couple TP changes. After smog devices, the toilet paper was no longer enough to keep the oil clean. Most of my life has been with marine diesels. I run a centrifuge and can get the soot out.
I hear you I started in 1963 with a Frantz oil cleaner and Standard Delo 100 30W. The oil was always black soon after an oil change. With the Frantz the oil turned golden and stayed that way. The Rambler American flat head 6 came factory equipped with a piece crap spin on bypass filter bolted to the head upside down. It went in the trash. They were about a 10 micron filter. The Mazda diesel pickup was factory equipped with both a full flow filter and a bypass filter. It also got a Frantz. Still have the Mazda filter mount. Forgot to remove the Frantz before selling it. Told the guy I would put the Mazda bypass filter back on. He told me to keep it. I went with the top loaders in the 80s. The only thing that fits the Frantz these days is the Frantz paper. The Pontiac Torrent has a Australian Jackmaster Classic. Great little filter. Been using Great Value 1000 from Walmart in mine. Cut a cartridge from a roll of VIVA paper towels yesterday. Thats what I have been using in the flat head Ford V8 canister filter. Its on the Ford diesel tractor.
Never had any problems keeping the oil looking new in a gasoline engine with or without emissions control.. I quit worrying about black oil in a diesel years ago. Black oil can be clean the same as red transmission fluid.
That's why I got an Amsoil bypass oil filter system for my 7.3.
It is possible to flush diesel engine (they are actually normally cleaner inside than a gasoline engine).
To completely flush a diesel engine normally takes 4-6 back to back flushes with the cheapest oil you can find. The newly poured in oil will stay clear for relatively long time, at least a few thousand km. My dads diesel oil is actually always clean because he changes it every 3000-5000 km as he doesn't drive much. And that's been this way for the last 17 years since I bought him this car and flushed the engine using about 30l of dirt cheap oil.
Then instead of a little harmless non abrasive soot you have crap oil contaminating the more expensive oil. Some of you guys are embarrassing.
@@ralphwood8818 you only need to deep clean it once, or maybe every 50k. Then you just do regular changes.
And btw, oil is oil. You cannot contaminate expensive oil with cheap oil. 5% of cheap fresh oil is in no way worse than 5% of old warn out expensive oil, which is always left inside the engine. Also, we are not talking formula 1 engines here.
I’ve had landcruiser 100 series 4.2 turbo diesel which I bought with 280,000 on the clock it has now hit 500,000 and my oil has always been a honey colour like a petrol car.. now I do change it every 5000 but even the day I got it it was quite clear on the dip stick and I found out I’m not the only one with the same motor to experience this.
I know it’s a direct injection type but why is it different from my hilux with a 3 ltr D4D diesel which turns black straight away..
Is it better piston rings ??
yeah, same here I have a 1975 era john Deere, it runs 60-80 per year and the oil is just as brown as gasoline engine. Our newier 2008 John Deere runs 20hours or less and the oil is dark as a car tire.
But the info is good, I think it also a factor that rings in gasoline engine also seal better over diesel.
One thing that was not mention, the type of oil determine how dirty it gets at change interval. Example red-line diesel engine oil is way cleaner than my T4 rotella.
Maybe they have better cleaning or additives in the oil.
Mag-1 is also better than regular non syntheic diesel oils and both of these are 2x the cost more than rotella T4.
Rotella t6 would be a better oil that also stays cleaner longer than T4. I run t4 or T6 in almost everything at my home outside of the polaris which uses 4 cycle motorcycle Mobile Syntethic
Good job on explaining for people who are not mechanical long for us who are lol , good job !
Diesel engines the more you operate them, the more they idol, even under full load it doesn't make a difference the engine will soot up and carbon up the engine oil. More especially, if the engine has what Catapillar calls CGI and what all other manufactures call EGR systems. Cummins in retrospect to Catapillar, has the same problem and frequent customer complaints of this problem. Although, like adept ape says this is not a problem this is normal. I am a lead tech at a cummins and shop just like adept ape is at the shop he works at, very frequently I get customer complaints of jet black engine oil being a problem. Most often I tell them they can change their oil every 12,000 miles versus every 15,000 or 25,000 miles. This will help on the blackness of the engine oil but it will not remove this blackness from the engine oil. I've seen fresh overhauled engines within the amount of 5000 miles have black engine oil. This is of no consequence to the engine if proper maintenance schedules are adhered to. As far as manufactures go, I have seen this black engine oil would be more of an actual problem in Detroit diesel engines rather than most other engine manufacturers. This is due to the fact that Detroit diesel engines seem to run a lot dirtier than Catapillar, Cummins, Mack and/or Volvo engines.
Good points. I have always wondered about the amount of engineered EGR each engine contributes to the combustion process, which of course would find entry into the oil pan. I have always advised friends to steer clear of the heavy egr engines if possible, and if not, increase the oil change frequencies.
Chad Jessup having an EGR or CGI engine is of no consequence. The contribution of an EGR vs Non-EGR isn't a performance issue. They do tend to run a little dirtier as far as the engine oil is concerned, but drivers that want mpg's while hauling should use an EGR or CGI engine. EGR simply lowers the combustion temps for emissions reasons. It also help the engine spray less fuel due to unburnt hydrocarbons being recirculated for the next combustion process hence the term exhaust gas recirculation system or better known as EGR or CGI.
I was just curious about the amount of recirculated exhaust gas added to the combustion process that was required to bring the engine into emission compliance by lowering NOX. Our trucks equipped with the Cummins BCIII 400 (NOX lowered by retarding the injection timing) achieved 6.5 mpg on the same haul that outside trucks with similar HP and EGR only reached 5.5 mpg. My brother's company trucks with N14's lasted 1.5M miles and averaged 6.4 mpg, while his newer trucks with Cummins "heavy" EGR engines were lucky to go 700K averaging 5.8 mpg (along with increased oil change frequency) - same loads and cab configuration. His newer 2015 ISX is doing much better.
Chad Jessup all I can say bud is just like anything else it takes time and practice along with trial and error to figure out the right way to make something work. The engines that came between the N14 and current 2017 product I guess you can say were lab rat engines. It wasn't till about or around the 2013 product where the EGR system and emission system really started to get fine-tuned. Previous ISX engines like the old CM 570s CM 870s in CM 871s were major downfalls as far as the EGR systems emissions compliance. Cummins now offers a 450 hp economy 15 liter ISX and they also offer a 630 hp high output ISX. The 630 hp engine is all about performance and not miles per gallon, while the 450 hp economy engine is geared towards miles per gallon specifically. The economy 450 hp engine uses adaptive learn, cruise control, engine brakes and fuel economy along with emissions control. The economy 450 HP engine uses the newest ADEPT system to max out the mpg's with decent power. The 630 hp engine is just a balls to the wall power house for those who need to be emissions legal but, don't give a crap about mpg's! All I can say is, the engines I work on that are equipped with the EGR system and after treatment systems seem to make decent power and have pretty OK fuel economy. I can't say that for other engines, in other vehicles, in other parts of the country. One big difference in power, economy and hauling capability is the application and where you're at in the country. This is going to depict how your engine runs and performs.
I with you on all that. In the future, it would be great, if possible, to eliminate EGR, because the slight fuel/power gain currently from those poorly combustible unburned hydrocarbons (UHC) reintroduced into the combustion chamber are offset to a higher degree by the extra soot in the oil (equals additional wear), but more importantly, those UHC result from lower combustion temperatures (necessary for lower NOX) causing less fuel oxidation, thus a decrease in power and fuel economy.
As I am no longer a member of SAE, I cannot easily just plug into the relevant articles and forward them to you, but I will see what I can find in my personal library.
The main reason of oil turn black in diesel engines isn’t blow by.
The diesel combustion produce soot 360* in all the combustion chamber including the cylinder walls. So basically in the power stroke cylinder walls are covered in black soon and then in the exhaust stroke all that black soot it washed away by engine oil, and this cycle is repeated again and again.
Excellent clear explanation, I've often wondered why that happens, thank you!
We have all gone through this "Phase of WTF" when we change our diesel's engine oil and it's black the next morning!!! I went and changed it again filled oil filter the whole nine and again the next day getting fuel. I checked it and it was black? A tear went down my cheek. I have now put over a million miles and still running strong little blow by but no problems.
With clean hands wipe the black oil on the palm. Wipe it around. If it feels clean and slick and doesnt stain the skin it has passed the old truckers palm test. If you worry about black oil in a diesel you will get ulcers. I use 1 micron bypass filters. My oil still gets black.
Good video. Just purchased a 2012 dodge....the oil is black. Changed it again....still black. Changed it a third time. And its still black. Will seafoam help this motor out. What can I do to flush the carbon out. The motor is stock. Not deleted. 82000 miles on the motor. Used as a hot shot truck. Thanks.
Is the color really an indicator of bad performance or harm to your engine? As long as the fuel is viscous & the compounds & solvents are still intact that's all you need to worry about.
Very well explained.....
very good educational video. thank you for sharing your knowledge and for educating yourself first. major Kuddos and Respect!
Why is my lb7 duramax an exception to this the oil only turns brown at 2k miles and black at 5k miles
I have a 3 cylinder Mitsubishi diesel in my tractor and a 1994 Chevy truck with a 6.5 turbo diesel. When I change the oil and filter, start it up for 5 minutes, then check it, it's totally black. In both engines the oil turns black immediately after an oil change.
Perhaps the oil color issue varies depending on what Diesel engine it is? My Mahindra tractor never has black oil and it’s at its 200 hour service interval now. The dipstick shows some color in the oil but it’s def not black. Perhaps the color will be more pronounced when I actually drain it though.
Thanks man. I will stop worrying now coz i changed my after 6k km. Was very black 😢
The object is to convert liquid chemical energy into useful work. Without exception the liquid fuel is some form of hydrocarbon. Thermal Efficiency is the percentage of the btu's in the fuel that gets converted to useful work. Gasoline engines historically have been very low, 20% to 25%, but may now be getting close to 30%. Diesels started out around 33% and perhaps are as high as 50% by now . We are talking strictly about internal combustion engines where fuel combustion takes place inside each cylinder of any given engine. Metallic parts, in a dry state rubbing against each other, wear out very rapidly; therefore, a film of lube oil must continually separate all moving parts at all times. THIS INCLUDES THE INSIDE SURFACE OF ALL CYLINDER WALLS.
Combustion takes place in a cylinder and the lube oil film on the cylinder wall gets sprayed with molecular sized unburned hydrocarbon particles. This oilfilm gets scraped off and replaced by new oil film. Some of the hc particles get carburized during combustion and will rapidly turn the lube oil into a very dark brown. It slowly turns the lube oil into sludge which is almost black - this is an example of very bad engine maintenance.
Dr. Diesel, in his very first prototype engine used extremely finely powdered coal dust as his first fuel type. They immediately switched to liquid fuel.
On another topic, I'd like your opinion on the use of fuel injector cleaner products such as Seafoam in the cat C7 engine.
This is an awesome video for educational purposes, thank you very much even if I'm 6 years late to the party
Can these oil engine “additives/ flusher” that are added before oil is dropped help to clear the engine / oil. Or is it simply better to just make oil changes more frequent, therefore in the long run having a cleaner, long lasting engine? Thanks for a great video.
Rapprochez vos vidanges d' huiles, c' est préférable.
Au minimum tous les ans.
Et avec l' huile préconisée par le constructeur.
So I have had a diesel for two years now and my oil would start to turn black after like 3000km, recently got a diesel for my mother also and noticed hers turn black few days after oil change. My mechanic could not explain or I’ll say convince me why it’s that way. Thanks man
I used to run a 93 Frieghtliner with a 190 hp Cummins. After 5000 km or 3000 miles the oil would start to darken, and by 8000km or 5000 miles it would look dirty, not black.
my mk5 golf variant from 2009 is producing soot while accelerating and i love it also the oil is pitchblack after a couple kilometers
bought a 6.5turo gm had a good mech but alas noone lasts forever didnt mid learning basics with gas motors eve rebuilt a few dpecils a new world thanks for the videoes learning a lot peace nick
I've seen 12 gallons of oil in a Cummins X15 (semi) go pitch black from clear after one 10-hour shift.
One simple reason why diesel engine oil turn black very quickly after oil change is because diesel engine is higher pressure combustion than petrol engine which get the burning smoke push through the gap of cylinder and mix the oil. Diesel smoke is blacker than petrol smoke.