We had toyota fleet vans that operate 12-18 hours a day. Over 500k kilometers. Mixed running and idling. They idle 2-6 hours a day because tourists dont like going out and stay inside where ac is always on because its hot in my country. Ive seen them rebuilt and still see the honing marks. I think if you put the correct oil and change it religiously idling is not a problem.
Cummins manual stats no longer than 10 minutes at idle at 750 rpm, high idle at 1100 rpm is ok but not for long periods in cold weather due to cylinder wash. Thank you very nice video, keep up the good work
This was pretty eye opening. I'm one of those guys who leaves for the week and never shuts the truck off until I get home. I do always kick it up to 1000 when idling though, but after this I might start shutting it off more.
Unless it’s too cold to sleep comfortably it’s just a waste of fuel and dirties up the oil quicker. I can sleep comfortably enough with no heat down to around 40 or so. Below that some supplemental heat for the cab is needed but still okay to shut the motor off unless you’re down into the really cold temps where shutting it off would be a foolish idea.
Here is my two cents. I have always thought excessive idling a total waste. I have been an owner operator since 1992 & constantly look for ways to control expenses. I own & drive a 2007 Pete 386 with a C15 acert that I bought back in 2007. I pull a 53' reefer throughout the midwest & Texas where I live. I try to never idle any more than needed. Truck now has 1.4 million miles on original engine. It't never had the head or pan off. Uses no oil between 15k mile changes. Rotella15w40 & Cat filters only. In the thirteen years I have owned it, the water pump & upper & lower wiring harness have been replaced. The manifold gaskets & studs nave been changed.Thermostats replaced twice.Recently installed a set of reman injectors. I run the overhead every 100k miles & that's it. She still runs smooth as silk & pulls as good as ever. Only mod from stock is a set of free from mufflers from Pittsburg Power along with replacing the entire exhaust system.
I fondly remember my first truck with a 3406 back in 1990, by the time I got it, it had a million-two on it already, and was getting tired. Back then we didn't have the toys we use now for heating and cooling, so it was either run the engine or die frozen solid in the bunk. This old girl spewed so much blow-by when idling that within an hour, there'd be a light haze inside the cab, so I had to always run the engine fan to chase away the blow-by gasses from lingering around and getting pulled into the truck's hvac. You could see the vapors coming out the blow-by tube, but it sure was nothing like what Josh showed at 04:10 in the video.
Running my C9 Motorhome, I typically don't stop the engine until arriving at the destination. Idling the engine through room slide, leveling jacks, connected/disconnect tow vehicle, and fuel stops. I monitor oil pressure and engine temperature closely, particularly for the HEUI pump. It's good information though and I will limit idling henceforth.
It is generally accepted that long periods of idling is not good for your engine because it tends to glaze up the bores making them highly polished, this makes the engine pull oil up past the rings to be burnt when the throttle is opened which creates blue smoke until the oil has burnt away. A lot of drivers start the truck up and if the weather is cold leave it running all day and possibly all night if their away from base and have to sleep in the truck, this also stops the brakes from freezing up because of the warm air circulating round the truck. It is not ideal but on freezing night it saves a lot of problems and time in the morning.
I've always followed and recommended following the severe conditions intervals for all equipment. Given the massive list of situations that qualify it almost seems that the manufacturer actually wants those intervals followed but has to keep up with the Joneses with longer and longer "normal" intervals.
When in North Dakota or Alberta area during the winter , u don't have much of a choice but to idle. Everything just freeze up solid otherwise. At my old job in North Dakota , if u shut the truck off for more then a few hours while outside , it would completley ice cube. We would have to tow it inside the shop and put cannon heaters under it and a tarp over the truck to act like a large balloon with heat in it. Then change filters and then restart. Some times the trucks would run for days or weeks at a time. When it was neg 30 outside. Guys would do a shift and then come to the yard and go to sleep. Some stayed in the trucks others in campers. But all the trucks would be set to 1100 rpms and left to idle. Even then and with cold weather bra on the radiator , the engines would still barley keep normal operating temps. All the engines where pre def and pre regen cats in over the road peterbilts retired from highway use and repowered to work in the oil fields. You would of got a kick out if that shop. You wouldn't imagine what we put trucks thru in the oil fields. I spent years doing otr and local and dump truck work then went to the out fields and had a whole new respect for what trucks can go thru. We truly tested the metals limts, the structure and the engineering of every part was tested. Cracked frames , broken axels, trucks catching fire due to chaffed fuel and electrical lines, hard part internal engine failures and everything in between was a normal day out there. Your videos are great! Show us more video examples and more parts examples. It's great stuff. Thanks.
Man, this video has opened my eyes to idling, especially since this my first time owning a truck with a CAT Engine 3406e. Thanks for the insight. Your vids are AWESOME!!!
Had 7 trucks that went 1.5 million plus miles before tearing them down. Ran from Sunday night till Friday night. Shut down long enough to check oil during fill up. When we pulled the head the liners and pistons looked perfect and speced almost new. We bumped idle up to 900 rpm for our 10 hour breaks and load and unload time. Could have flipped 2 mill at the rate they where going with no issues...
A lot of issues arise from operators that are too lazy to flip a high idle switch on older units that were equipped with them. I’ve seen old S60 Detroit’s in motorcoaches idle for days on end with massive climate control system running full blast. Considering the wear that the S60 were subjected to in motorcoach applications they have nothing but respect from me. The 12.7 pre-emissions was a money making piece of iron.
Great workhorse engine. I love em. Simple and has decent power. Note I didn't say king of the hill, but a good all around engine for everyone be it drivers or techs
I have a older F350 with the 7.3. I was told let the truck warm up before driving and that would give better fuel economy, and less wear and tear on the engine. I always let my truck idle in the morning for 10 minutes before I start my day or pull a heavy load.
When the engineers wrote that manual they forgot about redimix trucks . They get a lot of idle time on the job , and that’s not do to driver it’s when the job calls for the concrete be distributed slowly. We have 8 CAT engines and 10 Cummins in our fleet of Oshkosh front dishcharge mixers . So far rebuilt 3 cats and 2 Cummins all do to cyl rings / liners shot . We are in the worst conditions for operation so I guess that isn’t too bad lol! Great video Thankyou for sharing!
Black Smoke run a load on a pto while at idle. Like a fridge for the beers. Anything to load it. It's not the engineer, it's the operators responsibility to understand the instructions
A cement truck should be making a load just turning the drum of cement. Maybe not much but its something. Make sure the operator turns the engine up to high idle and has not left it at normal idle while pouring.
I have a C15. 1.5 million miles. Still original. It idles a lot for PTO and heat and air. But I change oil around 12 k. Because of the oil contamination because of idling. . It still does not burn oil or have excess blow by. .. Also when it is working it's pull a car carrier always maxed out. .. Also I don't over work my engine or over heating it either. Lots of good info on you viedos
If your PTO is operating and under any kind of real load (hydraulic pump etc.) this vid does not apply, its under load, the rings are under compression.
When I worked at an(independent) engine shop, I remember a piece of paper in the cylinder kits for a cat that said to not idle it for more than 5mins, take it out and drive it and seat the rings or they might not seat. Not sure what cat model it was ,too much stuff to remember since then.
I must have done something wrong. My 3406 only got 1,662,000 miles before it dropped a valve. I idled it at 950 nights when it was above 80 or below 40. I primarily ran from the Midwest to the west coast grossing 80 to 90 thousand with spread axle or 3 axle reefer trailers.
I haul regional freight and if i'm gone for 4 days then my truck runs for 4 days. I know its not good for it but neither is heat cycles from stopping and starting all the time such a short trips. I don't like sleeping in a hot truck or cold truck, it blocks out noise, and i don't have to worry about it not starting due to dead battery or bad starter and being stranded. It has 1.3 million miles but the previous owner did have an apu for much of that until it died.
I dirve a logging truck in WA with a 3406e and have the idle up to 1200rpm, another driver told me "having it idled up is bad for the engine", although he couldn't give me any reasons why. I'll have to show him this video, thanks for proving my point adept ape 👍
When i use my tractor in my yard for several hours over a week or 2 I take it for a run down the road to bring the engine to full operating temperature so it cleans off the carbon, on road driving is at 1500 rpm, the other major factor is oil, if you use fully synthetic oil it makes a difference and can be used in any diesel engine no matter how old it is.
Great video but you forgot one thing. When running an engine on idle for extended time you will have low oil pressure. Raising the revs will increase oilpressure which helps lubricate the rings.
LMC snowcat with hydrostatic drive and a CAT 3208. Have no choice but to idle for at least half an hour when it's below zero to warm up the hydraulics. But since watching the Adept Ape here I now idle it at 1100 rpm rather than 700. Keep the block heater plugged in all winter and if it weren't for a hundred miles of hydraulic lines, could keep that system warm too. Thanks.
An APU will eventually pay for itself. Because a class 8 engine will consume 1 gallon/hour, idling overnight. An APU will only consume 1 quart/hour for that same amount of time. The APU charges your batteries, cools your sleeper, and some keep your engine warm if it is plumbed into the cooling system.
I have an NH Cummins that has no visible hone marks remaining. Yet it starts and runs great! This engine doesn't see a lot of use, but she does use a little oil. Has great oil pressure.
Zion Avramov my 32v Cadillac northstar consumes 1quart every 2000 miles. Without zinc in the oil anymore, it's not an issue for the cat, but a good opportunity to replenish the oil with a fresh quart. It's an 8 quart of oil gasoline engine.
Average APU is 11,000. Around 2500 to install at Thermoking. There will be issues and repairs but it's peace of mind not feeling the truck vibration sitting or sleeping plus APU starts to keep batteries up. They actually trouble shoot APU with a computer. Memphis Tennessee has a very well experienced and trained technician. Was 4000 for 2 repairs but if had to go back was no charge. Once you get an APU or fridge you don't want to go back. Sooo much better on driver and semi truck engine
Have to change the oil based more on hours than miles if idling a lot. A truck can go down the road an average of 50 miles or so in an hour or sit and go 0 but, but all those hours count. If it takes you 200 hours of run time on a 10k OCI at an average of 50 mph, either each hour of idle is worth 50 miles or you just need to disregard miles entirely and go strictly by uptime hours. That only really works as an okay guideline for an oil change interval for a personal vehicle engine, where the engine is typically not running if the vehicle isn’t moving. Commercial vehicles, heavy equipment…different story.
went away for a weekend and found my tractor running in the shed, a rat had jumped the starter and started it, went back on audio off the security camera and it had been idling for 30 hours, don't imagine that done it any favours, was gutted at the use of fuel at the time and now i realise that may have caused the blowby it didn't have last summer. though it was the lighter oil :(
Detroit is now saying that idling the engine up at idle causing fuel degradation of the injectors and premature DPF failure. It’s a darn if you do and a darn darn if you don’t. Fortunately I can still offer 98 EPA engine options that don’t require DPF’s or the need for DEF fluid in gliders. However, this will be changed in coming years by the EPA. Plus you can’t operate them in California. But for now, it is a excellent options for certain applications that require idling. But idling as you mentioned does reduce the life of the engine. The engine does know if it’s running down the road or just running the heater. Idling is bad. Old school guys were taught to keep a truck running to lubricate the turbo and other items. But those days are long gone.
Our company uses three Kubota four cylinder 67 HP Diesel engines. We run them at 2200 rpm for about two hours at a time and we only idle them for a few minutes during startup and shutdown. Our oldest engine has over 6000 hours and still runs like new, but our second oldest engine has about 5000 hours and idles very loudly. Our newest engine has 800 hours and consumes oil slightly faster than the other two.
I don't mean to sound facetious but I want to ask about your engine that idles very loudly.... What do you mean by that, that it, or the clutch behind it chatters a lot?
I've had to start changing the oil on my wife's car more frequently because I found out she was sitting in her idling car during her hour-long lunch breaks 5 days a week. I was going off the milage for oil changes, now I go by the hour-meter I installed on the car and change the oil about every 125 hours. About half of the time the car is probably just idling. Sigh.
Awesome information. i'm gonna use this for my 2000 f250 7.3. I'll make sure when leaving it idling for longer then 10 minutes to use the high idle warm up tune to keep it above 1k rpm. Also one other thing to mention the use of Archoil AR6500 or Ar6200 fuel additive will reduce soot build up.
Diesel engines are designed to idle. There are some older engines that can’t hold heat in winter and need higher rpm to stay hot. If the engine hold heat at regular idle. It fine. Yes I drive a truck and have videos about trucks.
My service truck has a 7.3 in it, I run the PTO all the time, it has an AIC , Auxiliary Idle Controller, I can program it run any RPM I want it to. In the winter I hit the button and she "idles" at 1200 rpm and the heat builds fast.
Its not good to let it just idle. Turn the rpms up to atleast one thousand rpms. That way you have oil pressure and coolant running through the engine to keep it lubed and cool.
But diesel is cleaner. So oil needs to slash around lining the lower end of the cylinder. Iv been told by more than one mechanic this. There isn't enough oil splash at below 1k RPM.
Bearing surfaces are usually hydrodynamic. If the engine is going to slow it can not generate hydrodynamic pressure and keep bearings working. It’s a complicated issue. Thank you for the interesting discussion
The reason is bad product design. High percentage idling, as done with construction equipment and police cruisers, causes excessive wear IF the lubrication system isn't designed to handle low speed operation, or the engine management system doesn't periodically cycle the engine over the rpm range from idle to 30% maximum operating speed. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for these two features to NOT be incorporated in a machine intended for application where idling over long periods can be expected. The first is easily accomplished with an oil pumping system that dekivers adequate oil at low rpm. The second is a simple algorithm added to an electronic engine management system, which could be initiated when the drive train is in neutral.
I installed the controls for a hot water radiant heat system in the floor of a heavy equipment workshop. I couldn't work there . I would fall asleep on the warm floor.
Hi Josh, Excellent video, the explanation of how glazed cylinders happens and what the effect on the engine is. Explains why our logging trucks always smoked, they idled while being loaded as the hydraulics for the grab ran of the pto. If it were me I would have a apu and not use a pto where it is going to be used for hours on end. The cost of a truck being out for two weeks to fix a motor has paid for an apu many times over. And they smoked well! Best regards, Duncan from South Africa
last winter we had a power outage and i let my car idle with an inverter hooked up so that we had power. it ran like this for maybe 4 hours before the power came back on. when I went to pull it back into the garage the exhaust system was completely filled with at least 2 quarts of water from all the condensation in the pipes. Car is fine but I'm sure that didnt do the exhaust any favors.
Very interesting. So, letting a rig warm up in freezing weather is a bad idea then... What would you recommend? Block heater is an option, but can get expensive. Is raising the rpm to 1000+ the best bet in freezing conditions? Thanks.
Idling in cold to warm it up a bit is actually a great idea, as it helps things such as oil and coolant raise to operating temps. What adept ape is saying is you shouldn’t idle it at 800rpm for 12 hours at a time for best results of engine longevity.
Pop's How To's let it warm up enough for the engine temp needle to move then it's definitely okay to use it. Mainly just to get all of the fluids going at a high enough temp for them to flow properly.
Some very interesting points. It would seem reasonable that a certain amount of idling is a necessary part in reducing cold start related wear as well as assisting in cooling turbo charged engine components before shutting down. The main take away is that you shouldnt let the engine idle excessively and without good reason.
+DJ R Yes, don't put a very cold engine under heavy load, light load is best. Do not shut a very hot engine off either, it should be idled a little to help cool the turbo and cylinders down after a heavy pull. Good points, they are both brought up in the "severe duty guidelines" with about 40 other things in the maintenance section on the Cat website.
My truck hasn't shut off in 7 months. Except to change the oil at Every 50k and only used a gallon of oil every change. Currently has 287460 miles on dd15.
billy greenhorn like in Canada up North when minus 40 wasn't unusual. I've been through the 70's and it used to get cold. hence the song...40 below an I don't give a fuck. turn on the radio in my truck an I'm off the rodeo...
richard vaughn --get an APU it will pay for itself in fuel cost engine life and tickets in California , don't leave a dog in the car but tell a driver to go to sleep at a 110 degrees in Bakersfield
Workingclassdude Allmylife As long as it runs. APUs tend to run hot which burns out the piston rings and valves. This is because they take 2 cylinder stationary diesel engines and cram them into a tiny box that has sound proofing on the inside and then use a tiny radiator with an air conditioner condensor stuck on it. If your APU starts dieing then the repairs alone will make the APU cost more than the fuel you save by not idling. Not to mention it costs $6000 in the first place. You are better off with some tiny gas generator and a window unit.
Excessive wear at idle is more about running an engine in extreme temperatures than it is about excessive idle. If it is too cold or too hot idling does the most damage. I've seen engines refuse to start after idling on a beach for 10 mins. The salt air going into the engine scores the cylinder and because it is cool air the engine operates below the ideal temperature. We sprayed 'Start ya bastard' into the intake while trying to turn the engine over to get it going again. It ran real rough until it got back on the highway and left everyone behind in a massive cloud of smoke.
I’m glad that you have lots of knowledge and time to tell us what’s on our minds about our engines. However, I wish you would be a little more enthusiastic.
An hout meter is a handy device to use for engine service intervals. I see a lot of engines with low miles and very high hours of run time. That is due to idle time.better to change engine oil on hours of service than miles of service.
My truck goes to auto high idle after it's been sitting a few mins in park. Haven't ever seen another F series that did that even when it's not cold....
Damn this is opposite to what I always thought. I figured that lacking an ignition system, a diesel engine didnt much give a shit if it was idling or not, whereas idling a gasoline engine for a long time caused spark plug damage.
Diesel engines run much cooler at idle, and really cooler in cold temps. Engine temps determine how fuel is consumed/burnt, be it gas or diesel... but diesel is much more subjected in cold weather than gas. However, long term they'll both create engine issues.
So, running a PTO is REALLY BAAAAAD for the engine, right!? Or, maybe, not so bad, since the engine is really working hars to turn that PTO and pump, you have to rev up, and the engine runs with high oil pressure, and hot all the time, as you had mentioned, the cilinders like to run HOT! Please, advise. Thank you, great video.
The volvo trucks I've had used a preheat in intake to help start in cold and exhaust break that would labor the engine to help warm up and also in below 0 temperatures down as low as -40. In MN,ND, MB ,Sk. If that engine would have died so would I
We run an International Tow truck at work with a Cummins ISM and it idles SO MUCH. We don't have much an option though when using PTO or repairing or hooking up a bus on the road the truck has to spend a good 30 minutes to an hour each time it goes out idling. I would love to put it into high idle at least to help alleviate the issues but they don't put high idle switches on trucks anymore(at least ours)
Hey quick question Idling to let the engine warm up shouldn't be a bad thing no? Also how warm should the engine be before putting it under load? Thanks for your time and great info 👍
I just bought my first diesel, an F250 with the 7.3 and it scared the crap out of me the first day I started it. It was idling at 600 rpm, but then i heard it speeding up and i was so scared that some electronic issue had locked my truck at full throttle and it was going to keep going until it blew itself apart. No, it just raises the rpm to 1200 after it idles for a while :)
So what causes the newer engines to be so affected by idling? Because I thought for decades that truckers idled at fast idle all night every night and the engines still lasted a million+ miles?
The old fuel had much more lubricity for one thing. I'm sure it did a better job of lubricating the cylinder walls at idle than this ULSD crap we have to run now. He didn't mention it but I was always taught that the high idle was to fling more oil off the crankshaft up onto the cylinder walls. I was also taught that an idling diesel engine had virtually no wear but the cold starts were very hard on the engine so it increased longevity by not shutting it off. Diesel fuel has gotten so high priced now that idling is discouraged as being wasteful by trucking companies.
Your thought process is correct in my opinion... a hard start will probably be worse than idling... since idling keeps it lubricated, while a cold/Hard start has to re-lubricate. I idle my truck daily for the last 7 months. Around 800RPM, granite. My def is deleted, the only thing I do on maintenance mostly. Is once a month change fuel filter and oil/Filter, and every 6 months change air and cabin filter. It does have an oil leak, not severe though. But it has existed before I took possession of that truck. It has 700K Miles On It. Its A DD15 Engine.
I bought a truck a year ago with a 6nz, currently I am at home for an injury. My truck is here with me. I have an apu, with runs at night, and once a week I still start the engine about an hour at 1000 rpm. Good or bad?
I'm no expert but whenever I work an engine I give it a bit of time to cool down at idle so it can cool gradually instead of took quick which can warp stuff.
I don't give a rats ass what anybody says, I ALWAYS let my truck idle for 2 to 3 minutes before shutting down to cool the turbo. 300k miles on my duramax and counting so I'm doing something right. Well, I'm also a freak because I change my lucas oil every 2500 miles. Don;t care about cost. It's my ocd that controls that hahahahaha
Downshifting is good for engine compression it creates vacuum in the crankcase and manifold, forces rings against the cylinder walls for a tighter fit, ya-da ya-da ya-da
This explains why one time we got a truck back with a fresh rebuild and I decided to take it for a "test drive" and just hammered the living piss out of it. I got back and the mechanic said "what the fuck gear were you in pulling out of here you wanted to test it didn't you?" I said yeah it's got a ton of power. He said "good drive it like that all the way there and don't idle it until you are going to shut it off then low rpm for 2 minutes and shut it off" "DO YOU UNDERSTAND???" Don't fuck the motor don't idle it got ya boss.
Hi i just rebuilt my Scania truck motor.I havent taken a load yet we were struggling with the trailer.There is white smoke present not at idling only on acceleration
Shooting a can or two of WD-40 (optimally, followed with a pint of spray-mist distilled water) into the intake manifold during idle once a year or two would work miracles for most fuel-injection cars having blowby / oil-burning issues (and perhaps re-routing the pcv vent) it's kept my 330k mile camry running strong
Running a gas engine here in Hawaii, 2013 KIA Soul, hot humid weather year round, lots of stop and go traffic. Will often transport wife to do medical rounds after work and sit idling with the A/C on for 30-60 minutes while I wait for her, and the way I defeat the idle problem is by using high quality synthetic oil and an additive called BG MOA, never had a problem, engine pulls amazingly strong and I also drive it like its a Ferrari. I'll also give the engine a quick little rev to get the oil back up to the upper cylinder areas, head, OHC, valves and such. I run 0-40 European formula for extra protection. Never had a problem and idles smooth as glass, no jiggle whatsoever!
@adeptape What are your thoughts on cold idle and warm ups? When I first started driving I worked for a guy who wanted me to always let the truck idle for atleast 15 minutes in the morning before leaving. What are your thoughts on that? I’ve monitored oil samples on gas engine cars and letting them “warm up” in the morning leads to elevated wear metals in the oil samples. With out “warm ups” there’s never any wear metals in the oil samples. Obviously you don’t want to be seeing high rpms or load while an engine is cold, but what are your thoughts on warm up operations?
Great info. Helped confirm what I was debating.....Waiting for my ordered 2022 f-450 to arrive and now will be installing a high idle (if I have to idle more than 5 mins) up fitter switch as the first upgrade for sure. Flip the switch and she'll idle at between 1000 - 1200 rpm. Thanks Adept!
An engine design incorporates such safety factors to enable it to take the smooth with the rough. This advice is mostly pedantic. Regular heavy loads on an engine will most probably cause more accelerated wear than frequent idling.
I had an APU on my truck and when I sold it it had 26, 000 hours on it and the truck had almost 800,000 miles so having an APU save that truck a lot of idling and the Apu uses about a third of a gallon an hour
Thanks for the videos you make. In this case I have to disagree. Im third gen. in the trucking bus. I was taught when the truck is away from home that means its working. When it is working, its running. Although ALL engine manufacturers recomend you not idle your engine at all and that it can hurt it to do so, didnt always recomend not idleing. When an engine is idle, the only thing to worry about is air flow on hot days and too much air flow on cold days. Those problems are not so much a problem nowadays, because of advanced cooling systems and air powered fan clutches etc. When this became an issue, all engine manufacturers at the same time somehow decided at the same time to declare that idleing will damage your engine. Ya, exactly, when do all of them agree and start doing ANYTHING together. Its always been the big competition and if one is doing one thing the other will do something different just to be the first to start doing a thing that becomes a success. Am I right? So there were red flags everywhere for me when all this came about years ago. My first thought was maybe the EPA or some BS clean air govt. agency had passed some "clean air act" and confronted the engine companies and told them if they didnt do this they would be hit with emissions crap, that wouldnt work because of horsepower issues involved in moving heavy loads at hiway speeds. So why not get all us dumbass truckers to think we have to shut off our trucks to save our engines, or program the computers to shut down the engine if it idles for more than 5 minutes. Unless you idle up the engine to 1000-1100 rpms. Knowing that the extra fuel that burns will be more $$ out of pocket than we could afford and then we would decide to shut down instead of ideing. You must realize where I was and the place I called home was central California. At the time this was all going down, California was the Third Reich of smog law ( prolly still are) LOL, and they were pulling all kinds of BS on us Trucking outfits. They worked at it until they finally got the older non computered tractors/trucks off the road. So the way I see it is at an idle the cylinders are not creating even close to a fraction of the heat they are built to tolerate. Think of the intense amount of heat inside the combustion chambers on a large diesel engine under a grossed out load pulling a 5 mile 6% grade........... you still think idleing your truck for 4-6 hours is hurting it? Also when a truck idles for four hours it doesnt burn more than 5-10 gallons, maybe, My old Pop always said it was about a coffee can full. At any rate, we now have better oil, smarter engineers on engine lubrication, better machine tools for making engine parts. better systems over all on modern trucks. so why are all manufacturers convinced of "damage by idle"? I call BS. because in almost 75 years of trucking I have never heard someone say or say they heard or read anywhere not one time " engine blew up, too much idle time" and if it wasnt a Govt. agency then it was a deal with big oil companies. Diesel used to cost half the price of gas because it used to be a by-product of gasoline. I had to express my feelings on this matter because you have talent and I hate to see you wasting awesome troubleshooting skills on some BS like this! Sorry for the long rant about this. I enjoy your videos and it is good to see a mechanic from this younger generation who has TS skills that go past reading engine codes and R&R. Carry on, young man,carry on.
We had toyota fleet vans that operate 12-18 hours a day. Over 500k kilometers. Mixed running and idling. They idle 2-6 hours a day because tourists dont like going out and stay inside where ac is always on because its hot in my country. Ive seen them rebuilt and still see the honing marks. I think if you put the correct oil and change it religiously idling is not a problem.
Cummins manual stats no longer than 10 minutes at idle at 750 rpm, high idle at 1100 rpm is ok but not for long periods in cold weather due to cylinder wash. Thank you very nice video, keep up the good work
How bout in hot weather
This was pretty eye opening. I'm one of those guys who leaves for the week and never shuts the truck off until I get home. I do always kick it up to 1000 when idling though, but after this I might start shutting it off more.
Absolutely, I know a lot of the older felas that just let the engine idle indefinitely, for hours, DAYS even!!!
Unless it’s too cold to sleep comfortably it’s just a waste of fuel and dirties up the oil quicker. I can sleep comfortably enough with no heat down to around 40 or so. Below that some supplemental heat for the cab is needed but still okay to shut the motor off unless you’re down into the really cold temps where shutting it off would be a foolish idea.
Here is my two cents. I have always thought excessive idling a total waste. I have been an owner operator since 1992 & constantly look for ways to control expenses. I own & drive a 2007 Pete 386 with a C15 acert that I bought back in 2007. I pull a 53' reefer throughout the midwest & Texas where I live. I try to never idle any more than needed. Truck now has 1.4 million miles on original engine. It't never had the head or pan off. Uses no oil between 15k mile changes. Rotella15w40 & Cat filters only. In the thirteen years I have owned it, the water pump & upper & lower wiring harness have been replaced. The manifold gaskets & studs nave been changed.Thermostats replaced twice.Recently installed a set of reman injectors. I run the overhead every 100k miles & that's it. She still runs smooth as silk & pulls as good as ever. Only mod from stock is a set of free from mufflers from Pittsburg Power along with replacing the entire exhaust system.
1.4 mill is all because you take care of your truck and it’s a cat… I see guys going 35k between oil changes in fleets i find it absolutely insane.
Idling is a terrible waste of money, both in fuel and more frequent maintenance.
I fondly remember my first truck with a 3406 back in 1990, by the time I got it, it had a million-two on it already, and was getting tired. Back then we didn't have the toys we use now for heating and cooling, so it was either run the engine or die frozen solid in the bunk. This old girl spewed so much blow-by when idling that within an hour, there'd be a light haze inside the cab, so I had to always run the engine fan to chase away the blow-by gasses from lingering around and getting pulled into the truck's hvac. You could see the vapors coming out the blow-by tube, but it sure was nothing like what Josh showed at 04:10 in the video.
Just bought my first vw diesel. Your videos are EXTREMELY informative.
Dig the mk2 profile pic 👍
Wow... this is a golden medal comment when it comes from the prime minister (president) of Canada !!!
Running my C9 Motorhome, I typically don't stop the engine until arriving at the destination. Idling the engine through room slide, leveling jacks, connected/disconnect tow vehicle, and fuel stops. I monitor oil pressure and engine temperature closely, particularly for the HEUI pump. It's good information though and I will limit idling henceforth.
It is generally accepted that long periods of idling is not good for your engine because it tends to glaze up the bores making them highly polished, this makes the engine pull oil up past the rings to be burnt when the throttle is opened which creates blue smoke until the oil has burnt away. A lot of drivers start the truck up and if the weather is cold leave it running all day and possibly all night if their away from base and have to sleep in the truck, this also stops the brakes from freezing up because of the warm air circulating round the truck. It is not ideal but on freezing night it saves a lot of problems and time in the morning.
I've always followed and recommended following the severe conditions intervals for all equipment. Given the massive list of situations that qualify it almost seems that the manufacturer actually wants those intervals followed but has to keep up with the Joneses with longer and longer "normal" intervals.
When in North Dakota or Alberta area during the winter , u don't have much of a choice but to idle.
Everything just freeze up solid otherwise.
At my old job in North Dakota , if u shut the truck off for more then a few hours while outside , it would completley ice cube. We would have to tow it inside the shop and put cannon heaters under it and a tarp over the truck to act like a large balloon with heat in it.
Then change filters and then restart.
Some times the trucks would run for days or weeks at a time. When it was neg 30 outside.
Guys would do a shift and then come to the yard and go to sleep. Some stayed in the trucks others in campers. But all the trucks would be set to 1100 rpms and left to idle.
Even then and with cold weather bra on the radiator , the engines would still barley keep normal operating temps.
All the engines where pre def and pre regen cats in over the road peterbilts retired from highway use and repowered to work in the oil fields.
You would of got a kick out if that shop. You wouldn't imagine what we put trucks thru in the oil fields.
I spent years doing otr and local and dump truck work then went to the out fields and had a whole new respect for what trucks can go thru.
We truly tested the metals limts, the structure and the engineering of every part was tested.
Cracked frames , broken axels, trucks catching fire due to chaffed fuel and electrical lines, hard part internal engine failures and everything in between was a normal day out there.
Your videos are great! Show us more video examples and more parts examples. It's great stuff.
Thanks.
Man, this video has opened my eyes to idling, especially since this my first time owning a truck with a CAT Engine 3406e. Thanks for the insight. Your vids are AWESOME!!!
Had 7 trucks that went 1.5 million plus miles before tearing them down. Ran from Sunday night till Friday night. Shut down long enough to check oil during fill up. When we pulled the head the liners and pistons looked perfect and speced almost new. We bumped idle up to 900 rpm for our 10 hour breaks and load and unload time. Could have flipped 2 mill at the rate they where going with no issues...
Stephen Carr v
I doubt the same would apply to my '99 Camry 2.2 liter
What truck? I have a 06 lbz. 340k no problems. Would be nice to hit 700 with standard maintenance
You can't compare diesel engines to gas ones, gas washes out the cylinder walls while diesel is more lubricative..
A lot of issues arise from operators that are too lazy to flip a high idle switch on older units that were equipped with them. I’ve seen old S60 Detroit’s in motorcoaches idle for days on end with massive climate control system running full blast. Considering the wear that the S60 were subjected to in motorcoach applications they have nothing but respect from me. The 12.7 pre-emissions was a money making piece of iron.
Great workhorse engine.
I love em.
Simple and has decent power.
Note I didn't say king of the hill, but a good all around engine for everyone be it drivers or techs
One of the best ever made. The later 14.0 ones with EGR were not as good as the original 11.1 and 12.7 versions.
I have a older F350 with the 7.3. I was told let the truck warm up before driving and that would give better fuel economy, and less wear and tear on the engine. I always let my truck idle in the morning for 10 minutes before I start my day or pull a heavy load.
When the engineers wrote that manual they forgot about redimix trucks . They get a lot of idle time on the job , and that’s not do to driver it’s when the job calls for the concrete be distributed slowly. We have 8 CAT engines and 10 Cummins in our fleet of Oshkosh front dishcharge mixers . So far rebuilt 3 cats and 2 Cummins all do to cyl rings / liners shot . We are in the worst conditions for operation so I guess that isn’t too bad lol! Great video Thankyou for sharing!
Black Smoke run a load on a pto while at idle. Like a fridge for the beers. Anything to load it. It's not the engineer, it's the operators responsibility to understand the instructions
A cement truck should be making a load just turning the drum of cement. Maybe not much but its something. Make sure the operator turns the engine up to high idle and has not left it at normal idle while pouring.
1000r rip ems bud
I have a C15. 1.5 million miles. Still original. It idles a lot for PTO and heat and air. But I change oil around 12 k. Because of the oil contamination because of idling. . It still does not burn oil or have excess blow by. .. Also when it is working it's pull a car carrier always maxed out. .. Also I don't over work my engine or over heating it either. Lots of good info on you viedos
If your PTO is operating and under any kind of real load (hydraulic pump etc.) this vid does not apply, its under load, the rings are under compression.
Dose your engine smoke well it probly drinks and stays out late also
Better be careful if your engine is a ether head, they will make you broke before you know it.
What do you call a dear with no eyes?? I have no eye dear.
Thanks!
Lmao he looks high as a mother......
Best comment ever
When I worked at an(independent) engine shop, I remember a piece of paper in the cylinder kits for a cat that said to not idle it for more than 5mins, take it out and drive it and seat the rings or they might not seat.
Not sure what cat model it was ,too much stuff to remember since then.
I must have done something wrong. My 3406 only got 1,662,000 miles before it dropped a valve. I idled it at 950 nights when it was above 80 or below 40. I primarily ran from the Midwest to the west coast grossing 80 to 90 thousand with spread axle or 3 axle reefer trailers.
I haul regional freight and if i'm gone for 4 days then my truck runs for 4 days. I know its not good for it but neither is heat cycles from stopping and starting all the time such a short trips. I don't like sleeping in a hot truck or cold truck, it blocks out noise, and i don't have to worry about it not starting due to dead battery or bad starter and being stranded. It has 1.3 million miles but the previous owner did have an apu for much of that until it died.
It's your truck do it your way
chase5726 what engine do you have ??
Cold weather conditions in many cases forces you to keep a engine running, however, at higher idles only.
I dirve a logging truck in WA with a 3406e and have the idle up to 1200rpm, another driver told me "having it idled up is bad for the engine", although he couldn't give me any reasons why. I'll have to show him this video, thanks for proving my point adept ape 👍
I’m glad I found this video I have a 3406b and didn’t know this
It is only bad for fuel economy.
When i use my tractor in my yard for several hours over a week or 2 I take it for a run down the road to bring the engine to full operating temperature so it cleans off the carbon, on road driving is at 1500 rpm, the other major factor is oil, if you use fully synthetic oil it makes a difference and can be used in any diesel engine no matter how old it is.
Great video but you forgot one thing. When running an engine on idle for extended time you will have low oil pressure.
Raising the revs will increase oilpressure which helps lubricate the rings.
LMC snowcat with hydrostatic drive and a CAT 3208.
Have no choice but to idle for at least half an hour when it's below zero to warm up the hydraulics.
But since watching the Adept Ape here I now idle it at 1100 rpm rather than 700.
Keep the block heater plugged in all winter and if it weren't for a hundred miles of hydraulic lines, could keep that system warm too.
Thanks.
Honestly that's one of the best I've ever heard about engines in my life. Don't Mind If I Do.
An APU will eventually pay for itself. Because a class 8 engine will consume 1 gallon/hour, idling overnight. An APU will only consume 1 quart/hour for that same amount of time. The APU charges your batteries, cools your sleeper, and some keep your engine warm if it is plumbed into the cooling system.
Thank you for such informative content. I operated a JET A fuel truck at an airport. Probably 90% of engine hours were at idle. No high idle.
I have an NH Cummins that has no visible hone marks remaining. Yet it starts and runs great! This engine doesn't see a lot of use, but she does use a little oil. Has great oil pressure.
i like burning oil so i never have to change it
+fuzzy wuzzy damn ur trolling hard on a mechanic channel
fuzzy wuzzy So does your mother but we're not running around on RUclips telling everyone.
Zion Avramov my 32v Cadillac northstar consumes 1quart every 2000 miles. Without zinc in the oil anymore, it's not an issue for the cat, but a good opportunity to replenish the oil with a fresh quart. It's an 8 quart of oil gasoline engine.
I'm not gonna buy your car! 😁
lmfao
A REDLINE A DAY KEEPS THE CARBON AWAY!!
Really? :D
This aint rotary engines but I get the joke
But does it work with GDI?
That was good... it's pretty hard to get me to laugh, so take this 'W'...😂
Im always running close to redline, have no power down low.
Great information was told many years ago as a young man on dozers don’t baby it don’t idle it work it
Average APU is 11,000. Around 2500 to install at Thermoking. There will be issues and repairs but it's peace of mind not feeling the truck vibration sitting or sleeping plus APU starts to keep batteries up. They actually trouble shoot APU with a computer. Memphis Tennessee has a very well experienced and trained technician. Was 4000 for 2 repairs but if had to go back was no charge. Once you get an APU or fridge you don't want to go back. Sooo much better on driver and semi truck engine
Have to change the oil based more on hours than miles if idling a lot. A truck can go down the road an average of 50 miles or so in an hour or sit and go 0 but, but all those hours count. If it takes you 200 hours of run time on a 10k OCI at an average of 50 mph, either each hour of idle is worth 50 miles or you just need to disregard miles entirely and go strictly by uptime hours. That only really works as an okay guideline for an oil change interval for a personal vehicle engine, where the engine is typically not running if the vehicle isn’t moving. Commercial vehicles, heavy equipment…different story.
went away for a weekend and found my tractor running in the shed, a rat had jumped the starter and started it, went back on audio off the security camera and it had been idling for 30 hours, don't imagine that done it any favours, was gutted at the use of fuel at the time and now i realise that may have caused the blowby it didn't have last summer. though it was the lighter oil :(
Detroit is now saying that idling the engine up at idle causing fuel degradation of the injectors and premature DPF failure.
It’s a darn if you do and a darn darn if you don’t.
Fortunately I can still offer 98 EPA engine options that don’t require DPF’s or the need for DEF fluid in gliders.
However, this will be changed in coming years by the EPA.
Plus you can’t operate them in California.
But for now, it is a excellent options for certain applications that require idling.
But idling as you mentioned does reduce the life of the engine.
The engine does know if it’s running down the road or just running the heater.
Idling is bad.
Old school guys were taught to keep a truck running to lubricate the turbo and other items.
But those days are long gone.
Our company uses three Kubota four cylinder 67 HP Diesel engines. We run them at 2200 rpm for about two hours at a time and we only idle them for a few minutes during startup and shutdown. Our oldest engine has over 6000 hours and still runs like new, but our second oldest engine has about 5000 hours and idles very loudly. Our newest engine has 800 hours and consumes oil slightly faster than the other two.
I don't mean to sound facetious but I want to ask about your engine that idles very loudly.... What do you mean by that, that it, or the clutch behind it chatters a lot?
I've had to start changing the oil on my wife's car more frequently because I found out she was sitting in her idling car during her hour-long lunch breaks 5 days a week. I was going off the milage for oil changes, now I go by the hour-meter I installed on the car and change the oil about every 125 hours. About half of the time the car is probably just idling. Sigh.
Jess Stuart what kind of meter is it and where'd u get it
Just put in a high idle switch
Awesome information. i'm gonna use this for my 2000 f250 7.3. I'll make sure when leaving it idling for longer then 10 minutes to use the high idle warm up tune to keep it above 1k rpm. Also one other thing to mention the use of Archoil AR6500 or Ar6200 fuel additive will reduce soot build up.
Diesel engines are designed to idle. There are some older engines that can’t hold heat in winter and need higher rpm to stay hot. If the engine hold heat at regular idle. It fine. Yes I drive a truck and have videos about trucks.
Buddy of mines uncle left his Cummins running for 7 days straight.
Not good, you can let it run 6 days, but seventh day rest.
@Chad Carroll Surely, you must be joking.
@Chad Carroll It must be a quiet cab. 43 days!!!
@Chad Carroll making money?
Chad Carroll I’m thinking an APU would pay for itself in your application fairly quickly.
My service truck has a 7.3 in it, I run the PTO all the time, it has an AIC , Auxiliary Idle Controller, I can program it run any RPM I want it to. In the winter I hit the button and she "idles" at 1200 rpm and the heat builds fast.
Its not good to let it just idle. Turn the rpms up to atleast one thousand rpms. That way you have oil pressure and coolant running through the engine to keep it lubed and cool.
Good video, most important part is the engine runs at it's least efficient so carbon build up is very high compared to other conditions.
But diesel is cleaner. So oil needs to slash around lining the lower end of the cylinder. Iv been told by more than one mechanic this. There isn't enough oil splash at below 1k RPM.
Bearing surfaces are usually hydrodynamic. If the engine is going to slow it can not generate hydrodynamic pressure and keep bearings working.
It’s a complicated issue.
Thank you for the interesting discussion
When you said “slobbering” I had to pause the video and google it lol I’ve never heard that before, I’ve always called it “loading up”.
The reason is bad product design.
High percentage idling, as done with construction equipment and police cruisers, causes excessive wear IF the lubrication system isn't designed to handle low speed operation, or the engine management system doesn't periodically cycle the engine over the rpm range from idle to 30% maximum operating speed.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for these two features to NOT be incorporated in a machine intended for application where idling over long periods can be expected. The first is easily accomplished with an oil pumping system that dekivers adequate oil at low rpm. The second is a simple algorithm added to an electronic engine management system, which could be initiated when the drive train is in neutral.
I noticed my Toyota alters its idling every now and again, that explains it
I can see more oil helping but not cycling the RPM, what's that supposed to accomplish?
Your shop floors are so smooth😍 I want to work there just cause of that, the floors at my shop are trash and my creeper gets stuck now and then
alex ruano
I installed the controls for a hot water radiant heat system in the floor of a heavy equipment workshop. I couldn't work there . I would fall asleep on the warm floor.
alex ruano you can get them ground or surfaced to smooth them.
Clean Tacoma! You in the TTE group?
Hi Josh,
Excellent video, the explanation of how glazed cylinders happens and what the effect on the engine is.
Explains why our logging trucks always smoked, they idled while being loaded as the hydraulics for the grab ran of the pto.
If it were me I would have a apu and not use a pto where it is going to be used for hours on end.
The cost of a truck being out for two weeks to fix a motor has paid for an apu many times over.
And they smoked well!
Best regards,
Duncan from South Africa
last winter we had a power outage and i let my car idle with an inverter hooked up so that we had power. it ran like this for maybe 4 hours before the power came back on. when I went to pull it back into the garage the exhaust system was completely filled with at least 2 quarts of water from all the condensation in the pipes. Car is fine but I'm sure that didnt do the exhaust any favors.
🎉didnt think a Cat that shifts be tween 15 and 18 was doing any thing more than an idle. Then there are the fishing boats with constant low idle
Very interesting. So, letting a rig warm up in freezing weather is a bad idea then... What would you recommend? Block heater is an option, but can get expensive.
Is raising the rpm to 1000+ the best bet in freezing conditions?
Thanks.
Yes
Idling in cold to warm it up a bit is actually a great idea, as it helps things such as oil and coolant raise to operating temps. What adept ape is saying is you shouldn’t idle it at 800rpm for 12 hours at a time for best results of engine longevity.
Pop's How To's let it warm up enough for the engine temp needle to move then it's definitely okay to use it. Mainly just to get all of the fluids going at a high enough temp for them to flow properly.
I hope I remember correctly.
Perkins motor manual 1106d PJ
Start under cold conditions
Idling up the motor to 1000 or 1100 rpm is recommended.
Some very interesting points. It would seem reasonable that a certain amount of idling is a necessary part in reducing cold start related wear as well as assisting in cooling turbo charged engine components before shutting down. The main take away is that you shouldnt let the engine idle excessively and without good reason.
+DJ R Yes, don't put a very cold engine under heavy load, light load is best. Do not shut a very hot engine off either, it should be idled a little to help cool the turbo and cylinders down after a heavy pull. Good points, they are both brought up in the "severe duty guidelines" with about 40 other things in the maintenance section on the Cat website.
DJ R there's a difference in warm up and idling
@AdeptApe would this also apply to pickups? Powerstrokes, duramax and cummins.
My truck hasn't shut off in 7 months. Except to change the oil at Every 50k and only used a gallon of oil every change. Currently has 287460 miles on dd15.
Old school thinking was to idle the engine 24/7 in cold weather because they were hard to start when cold...that's not an issue anymore
billy greenhorn like in Canada up North when minus 40 wasn't unusual. I've been through the 70's and it used to get cold. hence the song...40 below an I don't give a fuck. turn on the radio in my truck an I'm off the rodeo...
i do it more so the car is warm when i get in
billy greenhorn The air conditioner doesnt work when the engine is off. Truck drivers live in their trucks 24-7.
richard vaughn --get an APU it will pay for itself in fuel cost engine life and tickets in California , don't leave a dog in the car but tell a driver to go to sleep at a 110 degrees in Bakersfield
Workingclassdude Allmylife As long as it runs. APUs tend to run hot which burns out the piston rings and valves. This is because they take 2 cylinder stationary diesel engines and cram them into a tiny box that has sound proofing on the inside and then use a tiny radiator with an air conditioner condensor stuck on it. If your APU starts dieing then the repairs alone will make the APU cost more than the fuel you save by not idling. Not to mention it costs $6000 in the first place.
You are better off with some tiny gas generator and a window unit.
Excessive wear at idle is more about running an engine in extreme temperatures than it is about excessive idle. If it is too cold or too hot idling does the most damage. I've seen engines refuse to start after idling on a beach for 10 mins. The salt air going into the engine scores the cylinder and because it is cool air the engine operates below the ideal temperature. We sprayed 'Start ya bastard' into the intake while trying to turn the engine over to get it going again. It ran real rough until it got back on the highway and left everyone behind in a massive cloud of smoke.
Nice to see a new one from you l,best videos for a heavy mechanic
I’m glad that you have lots of knowledge and time to tell us what’s on our minds about our engines. However, I wish you would be a little more enthusiastic.
An hout meter is a handy device to use for engine service intervals. I see a lot of engines with low miles and very high hours of run time. That is due to idle time.better to change engine oil on hours of service than miles of service.
absolutely enlightening thank you
That blow by at 4:10 looked like my C15 before the overhaul
My truck goes to auto high idle after it's been sitting a few mins in park. Haven't ever seen another F series that did that even when it's not cold....
Damn this is opposite to what I always thought. I figured that lacking an ignition system, a diesel engine didnt much give a shit if it was idling or not, whereas idling a gasoline engine for a long time caused spark plug damage.
Diesel engines run much cooler at idle, and really cooler in cold temps. Engine temps determine how fuel is consumed/burnt, be it gas or diesel... but diesel is much more subjected in cold weather than gas. However, long term they'll both create engine issues.
Lol I have been a mechanic for 20 years and "slobber" is a new term to me !
Old 2-stroke Detroit mechanics came up with the term “slobbering “.
So, running a PTO is REALLY BAAAAAD for the engine, right!? Or, maybe, not so bad, since the engine is really working hars to turn that PTO and pump, you have to rev up, and the engine runs with high oil pressure, and hot all the time, as you had mentioned, the cilinders like to run HOT! Please, advise. Thank you, great video.
The volvo trucks I've had used a preheat in intake to help start in cold and exhaust break that would labor the engine to help warm up and also in below 0 temperatures down as low as -40. In MN,ND, MB ,Sk.
If that engine would have died so would I
I would rather have everything all warmed up before I put my foot in the throttle. Gas or diesel.
an tracters when people dont run the engine at full rpm the hydrolics get hot an wear the pumps out !!!!!learned that the hard way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I read a lot of modern diesels have a timer that shuts off the engine automatically to help prevent excessive idling.
That's a setting in the ECM but it can be disabled to to do that
This is why most sleeper trucks have little Diesel engines behind the cab to run the heat/AC
We run an International Tow truck at work with a Cummins ISM and it idles SO MUCH. We don't have much an option though when using PTO or repairing or hooking up a bus on the road the truck has to spend a good 30 minutes to an hour each time it goes out idling. I would love to put it into high idle at least to help alleviate the issues but they don't put high idle switches on trucks anymore(at least ours)
Hey quick question Idling to let the engine warm up shouldn't be a bad thing no? Also how warm should the engine be before putting it under load? Thanks for your time and great info 👍
I just bought my first diesel, an F250 with the 7.3 and it scared the crap out of me the first day I started it. It was idling at 600 rpm, but then i heard it speeding up and i was so scared that some electronic issue had locked my truck at full throttle and it was going to keep going until it blew itself apart. No, it just raises the rpm to 1200 after it idles for a while :)
Does it damage the valve rings? Idling at the same rpm?
Have a 1976 jcb digger it's been idling since 76 still running in 2020
So what causes the newer engines to be so affected by idling? Because I thought for decades that truckers idled at fast idle all night every night and the engines still lasted a million+ miles?
The old fuel had much more lubricity for one thing. I'm sure it did a better job of lubricating the cylinder walls at idle than this ULSD crap we have to run now. He didn't mention it but I was always taught that the high idle was to fling more oil off the crankshaft up onto the cylinder walls. I was also taught that an idling diesel engine had virtually no wear but the cold starts were very hard on the engine so it increased longevity by not shutting it off. Diesel fuel has gotten so high priced now that idling is discouraged as being wasteful by trucking companies.
Your thought process is correct in my opinion... a hard start will probably be worse than idling... since idling keeps it lubricated, while a cold/Hard start has to re-lubricate. I idle my truck daily for the last 7 months. Around 800RPM, granite. My def is deleted, the only thing I do on maintenance mostly. Is once a month change fuel filter and oil/Filter, and every 6 months change air and cabin filter. It does have an oil leak, not severe though. But it has existed before I took possession of that truck. It has 700K Miles On It. Its A DD15 Engine.
I bought a truck a year ago with a 6nz, currently I am at home for an injury. My truck is here with me. I have an apu, with runs at night, and once a week I still start the engine about an hour at 1000 rpm. Good or bad?
Wait so it's bad to idle more than 5 minutes, but also turning on/off engine often is bad also?
What about idling for a few minutes to let the engine/turbo cool down?
I'm no expert but whenever I work an engine I give it a bit of time to cool down at idle so it can cool gradually instead of took quick which can warp stuff.
Ya,alwayslet it cool down a little.
5 min
I don't give a rats ass what anybody says, I ALWAYS let my truck idle for 2 to 3 minutes before shutting down to cool the turbo. 300k miles on my duramax and counting so I'm doing something right. Well, I'm also a freak because I change my lucas oil every 2500 miles. Don;t care about cost. It's my ocd that controls that hahahahaha
@@dandifusco1868 😁
Downshifting is good for engine compression it creates vacuum in the crankcase and manifold, forces rings against the cylinder walls for a tighter fit, ya-da ya-da ya-da
This explains why one time we got a truck back with a fresh rebuild and I decided to take it for a "test drive" and just hammered the living piss out of it. I got back and the mechanic said "what the fuck gear were you in pulling out of here you wanted to test it didn't you?" I said yeah it's got a ton of power. He said "good drive it like that all the way there and don't idle it until you are going to shut it off then low rpm for 2 minutes and shut it off" "DO YOU UNDERSTAND???" Don't fuck the motor don't idle it got ya boss.
Your egnines relie on splash lubrication the faster the crank turns the more the crankshaft splash oil every were so its important to use high idle
Thanks. Have a 2005 Volvo 780. Rebuilt. Cummins isx 525 hp
for a marine engine, (3116) is ldling in this discussion the same as idling under load, i.e min throttle, props engaged
Hi i just rebuilt my Scania truck motor.I havent taken a load yet we were struggling with the trailer.There is white smoke present not at idling only on acceleration
Thank you for putting these useful info out there! Great job mate!
Don't all diesel engines especially current ones idle at or slightly above 1K RPM's?
why is it that the temperature of the engine cant just be regulated with the coolant, as in keeping the engine hot?
Shooting a can or two of WD-40 (optimally, followed with a pint of spray-mist distilled water) into the intake manifold during idle once a year or two would work miracles for most fuel-injection cars having blowby / oil-burning issues (and perhaps re-routing the pcv vent) it's kept my 330k mile camry running strong
Hi where is intake manifold? And what is purpose of water? Thanks
Running a gas engine here in Hawaii, 2013 KIA Soul, hot humid weather year round, lots of stop and go traffic. Will often transport wife to do medical rounds after work and sit idling with the A/C on for 30-60 minutes while I wait for her, and the way I defeat the idle problem is by using high quality synthetic oil and an additive called BG MOA, never had a problem, engine pulls amazingly strong and I also drive it like its a Ferrari. I'll also give the engine a quick little rev to get the oil back up to the upper cylinder areas, head, OHC, valves and such. I run 0-40 European formula for extra protection. Never had a problem and idles smooth as glass, no jiggle whatsoever!
@adeptape What are your thoughts on cold idle and warm ups? When I first started driving I worked for a guy who wanted me to always let the truck idle for atleast 15 minutes in the morning before leaving. What are your thoughts on that? I’ve monitored oil samples on gas engine cars and letting them “warm up” in the morning leads to elevated wear metals in the oil samples. With out “warm ups” there’s never any wear metals in the oil samples. Obviously you don’t want to be seeing high rpms or load while an engine is cold, but what are your thoughts on warm up operations?
Great question. Im following this
Great info. Helped confirm what I was debating.....Waiting for my ordered 2022 f-450 to arrive and now will be installing a high idle (if I have to idle more than 5 mins) up fitter switch as the first upgrade for sure. Flip the switch and she'll idle at between 1000 - 1200 rpm. Thanks Adept!
Thank you for sharing your accumulated wisdom on this topic!
I find that hard to believe! New engines fail all the time but that could be due to other reasons!
Concrete pumps , pretty well operate at a smidge above idle all day everyday .
An engine design incorporates such safety factors to enable it to take the smooth with the rough. This advice is mostly pedantic. Regular heavy loads on an engine will most probably cause more accelerated wear than frequent idling.
Does this apply to gasoline engines as well?
yes
SouthJerseySound no it doesn’t. Gasoline does not lubricate nearly as much as diesel
I had an APU on my truck and when I sold it it had 26, 000 hours on it and the truck had almost 800,000 miles so having an APU save that truck a lot of idling and the Apu uses about a third of a gallon an hour
Thanks for the videos you make. In this case I have to disagree. Im third gen. in the trucking bus. I was taught when the truck is away from home that means its working. When it is working, its running. Although ALL engine manufacturers recomend you not idle your engine at all and that it can hurt it to do so, didnt always recomend not idleing. When an engine is idle, the only thing to worry about is air flow on hot days and too much air flow on cold days. Those problems are not so much a problem nowadays, because of advanced cooling systems and air powered fan clutches etc. When this became an issue, all engine manufacturers at the same time somehow decided at the same time to declare that idleing will damage your engine. Ya, exactly, when do all of them agree and start doing ANYTHING together. Its always been the big competition and if one is doing one thing the other will do something different just to be the first to start doing a thing that becomes a success. Am I right? So there were red flags everywhere for me when all this came about years ago. My first thought was maybe the EPA or some BS clean air govt. agency had passed some "clean air act" and confronted the engine companies and told them if they didnt do this they would be hit with emissions crap, that wouldnt work because of horsepower issues involved in moving heavy loads at hiway speeds. So why not get all us dumbass truckers to think we have to shut off our trucks to save our engines, or program the computers to shut down the engine if it idles for more than 5 minutes. Unless you idle up the engine to 1000-1100 rpms. Knowing that the extra fuel that burns will be more $$ out of pocket than we could afford and then we would decide to shut down instead of ideing. You must realize where I was and the place I called home was central California. At the time this was all going down, California was the Third Reich of smog law ( prolly still are) LOL, and they were pulling all kinds of BS on us Trucking outfits. They worked at it until they finally got the older non computered tractors/trucks off the road. So the way I see it is at an idle the cylinders are not creating even close to a fraction of the heat they are built to tolerate. Think of the intense amount of heat inside the combustion chambers on a large diesel engine under a grossed out load pulling a 5 mile 6% grade........... you still think idleing your truck for 4-6 hours is hurting it? Also when a truck idles for four hours it doesnt burn more than 5-10 gallons, maybe, My old Pop always said it was about a coffee can full. At any rate, we now have better oil, smarter engineers on engine lubrication, better machine tools for making engine parts. better systems over all on modern trucks. so why are all manufacturers convinced of "damage by idle"? I call BS. because in almost 75 years of trucking I have never heard someone say or say they heard or read anywhere not one time " engine blew up, too much idle time" and if it wasnt a Govt. agency then it was a deal with big oil companies. Diesel used to cost half the price of gas because it used to be a by-product of gasoline. I had to express my feelings on this matter because you have talent and I hate to see you wasting awesome troubleshooting skills on some BS like this! Sorry for the long rant about this. I enjoy your videos and it is good to see a mechanic from this younger generation who has TS skills that go past reading engine codes and R&R. Carry on, young man,carry on.
Too many wives tales in your post...sorry.