My wife and I will soon be celebrating our 55th Anniversary. And guess what, I have some 8mm movies from our Navy "honeymoon."Myr old Argus 8mm movie projector still works, so we've enjoyed looking at days gone by-scratches, dirt and all. I appreciate the tip on re-recording these classics. Most importantly, we don't mind that they're not perfect; the films just bring back wonderful memories. Thank you!
Some OK advice here. A few added suggestions would be; The room doesn't need to be as dark as possible. Varying, small amounts of incandescent light can improve contrast and white balance issues in the original films. Keep your projected image small, like no more than 6 inches square. This will improve sharpness and clarity. Any good bright-white matte printer paper will work well. No need to buy a special projection surface. If the films are important to you and your family, don't use a Brownie! Hunt down a decent projector with variable speed control to reduce flicker and a good lens. Bolex-Paillard M8 or a model by ELMO will work wonders! You might not get a second chance!
If the films are important to you, then don't run them through a vintage projector, have them professionally transferred.
6 лет назад+4
......No, your advice is NOT OK......don't suggest incorrect information, Cletus........a completely dark room is best, for this ridiculous method. Contrast and white balance etc. is done in post.....get ALL the quality you can (from a pitch black room first). Gheese....some people.
Only film which has been damaged from being kept in a bad environment that has experienced serious shrinkage will have problem with a sprocket projector. 99% of film will play fine through a projector. Also instead of capturing the projected image, you can remove the projector's shutter and point a lens directly into the projector itself with a 4K video camera and capture stellar images. Professional film scanners are nice for 35mm because the larger formats can't shrink more than 1% before it clogs a projector. That's rare with 16mm and even more rare with 8mm. It's an easy format to work with considering you have a high quality projector that is cleaned and lubricated. Improper loading of film can also result in excess wear.
@@chrisw5742 Variable speed projector. 24fps DSLR. Speed up projector to 20fps on three blade shutter. Creates 60Hz NTSC frequency without flicker. If you want PAL then 25fps on DSLR. 16.6fps on projector creates 50Hz signal.
My family found old 16mm films when we bought our house and my dad purchased a projector for 7 bucks. We had to replace a belt with a rubber band because it was broken. We have films fron the early 20's. Thanks for the info on how to film these amazing stories to save for future generations to enjoy.
Yes, after some research, I found out that the projector's frame rate is important to prevent flicker. One needs to use a variable speed projector (as shown on several other do-it-yourself 8mm projection to digital RUclips videos) and increase the speed from the standard 16 frames per second (18 frames for Super 8) to 20 frames per second and adjust your video recorder to 60 frames per second. The standard 30 frames per second may work but with some flicker. Perhaps the projector you used plays at 20 frames per second and that is why you did not get flicker.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird Thank you for the very informative instructions on how to do this. It's amazing how stable a video you got from the projection.
Although standard 8mm film is recorded at and meant to be captured at 16fps. If you speed it up it plays faster motion than its supposed to. A lot of fixed projectors have a speed of 18fps so you want a variable speed projector to slow it down. The flickering or missing frames you see recorded at 24fps on your camera can be replaced in post process with repeated frames. In the old days we called it a Step Print. Great interpolation software in Film 9 that can be set to any frame rate you want with great results.
To put audio life with a personal touch back into these old videos, I set up a table and chairs with a mic in the center of the table and my Sony A7rii pointed at the table. Those family members remaining sat around the table and provided the documentation of who, what, when and where. If your capturing video camera has a 16:9 aspect ratio it gives plenty of room to ad comments during post processing along the black boarder.
Nice to hear from you! Please check the comments for lots of input from people who have more experience than I in this realm. We did the video quite some time ago..
my in-laws trusted me with the grandparents old film reels (being the family videographer/photographer). I did exactly what you did. I had a bugger of a time changing the frame rate on the camcorder (using a Sony HDR-TD10). I got the frame rate to 30, opposed to 60, and it reduced the flickering and horizontal lines significantly. Took a LOT of trial and error to get it right. They had some 2 hours of film reels. Some 20 minute films and some 5 minute films. You are using the exact same projector as they trusted me with. I used card stock paper. Glad to know a simple method was actually a decent way to go.
It took me a while to find a projector, and I had problems with it. After fiddling for days so my projector sprockets are not eating the 50+ year old film, I looked online about transferring my 5 reels of film. Most services are from 3 to 7 dollars for a 3" reel. Costco wanted about 10 times that. Transfer services clean the film, and you have no flicker issues. Had I known up front about the better rates , I would have looked for a film editor rather than the projector. The editing machine is hand cranked, and you can get a quick view of what is on the reel before spending money on a transfer.
I transfer 6 rolls of childhood memories to digital using my cell phone. At lest 80 percent successful. Transferred them to a USB drive an sent them to my kids. If they viewed them once I'd be surprised. My guess is they formatted over the mp4 files and used it to archive their own memories.
Dennis, upload to RUclips.....and your grandkids or great grandkids will be amazed in the future. 🙂 (Dennis, did you talk ,also, over the film, explaining what was happening? Also, had you any problems......I'm just wondering about the 20% that was less successful. ) Cheers. Tossie, Ireland.
Dear Alastair Bird, Excellent tutorial. I just bought a Bell & Howell 8mm projector and I'll be digitizing my family's old 8mm film as soon as it arrives. I know regular 8mm film runs at 16 frames per second and video can run at 24 or 30 frames per second. I assume since you did not talk about the difference in frame rates that it should not be an issue, is that correct? FYI - I'll be saving a tremendous amount of money as it would have cost $1,500 to transfer all the film professionally and $300 to buy a Wolverine 8mm Transfer machine. The Bell & Howell 8mm projector only cost me $195 with a 30 day warranty.
Let us know how your transfer comes out. I tried this recently and the framerate differences (I tried recording at both 30 and 60fps) created a terrible strobing on the final product. No way to control it without some serious additional hardware...
@@smichelsen I'm still waiting on the projector to arrive. As it turns out by luck, the 8mm projector I bought has variable speed, so if I do get the strobe effect, I can increase (or decrease) the film speed until it disappears. I found out that from another RUclips video that speeding up the film to 20 fps and recording it at 60 fps eliminates the strobe effect, so I'll see if that works. My digital camera can do 1280 x 720 at 60 fps. Of course if you speed up the film to 20fps you will then, if you want, reduce the speed back down in editing. I did finally figure out how to slow the digital recording down 20% (0.8) in my Roxio Creator 2011 Pro video editing software so the speed is returned back to 16 fps for regular 8mm and to reduce it by 10% (.9) for Super8 to get the original 18 fps. But I think the key to eliminating flicker is going to be the variable speed projector. I will let you know what works.
@@Jeff-wb3hh Thanks for that! I have also in the last few days patched together that data from a few youtube videos. I see that Canon made a line of projectors that have a variable speed knob - I believe it has a range of 12-22fps. I am going to be getting one and will try the 20fps - 60fps idea also. I also considered 15pfs - 60fps; a 4:1 ratio rather than 3:1; not sure how the result would differ. I see that the B&H 10MS and other models also all do variable speed - good luck!
@@smichelsen I received the Bell & Howell a couple days ago. Unfortunately it was not the model they said it was. But it did have adjustable speed. So I tried it, but it ran slow and the speed was uneven and as I tried to adjust the speed the film stopped and burned. It also broke my film several times. After trying a couple more times and have it stop three more times I gave up. What I did see from the Bell & Howell, when the film was running, was a very sharp bright image what revealed the grain of the film. Since this was a very poor restoration job and the wrong model, I returned it for a full refund. Now I bought another one that supposedly works. It will arrive Sunday, supposedly, but probably Monday. Slowing the film down to 15fps is a good idea, then you can capture at full HD (or higher) at 30fps and record the grain of the film like I saw on the screen. Maybe Alastair's Kodak projector ran a little slow at 15fps and that's why he didn't have a problem with flicker.
@@smichelsen The second 8mm projector arrived, so I will see how that works. As a backup I also bought the B&H 10MS as you suggested for my Super 8 (also does 8mm). I wish I knew about the B&H 10MS earlier. It's a newer model and the owner said it is in perfect working order, so hopefully those will work well enough to finally try some transfers. In the meantime I bought a Wolvarine MovieMaker Pro and transferred some of my 8mm and Super 8 using that machine and the results are excellent, however I had two machines brake on me, and I will not exchange another one. Instead I returned the second broken one for a full refund. The Wolvarine machines are more like toys, but when they work they do work well. So hopefully the projector method will work well enough to do my movies. I have to say this has been a little frustrating, but it will be worth it. Also, I just found out that more sophisticated digital cameras can change the frame rate to just about anything one wants, so that is another option. I'll let you now how the projector method works and how it compares to the Wolvarine MovieMaker Pro individual frame scanner method.
Some video editing software provides for inversion left-for-right of the image. With this in mind, make a screen that can stand on a table vertically. Place the projector on one side of the screen, the video camera goes on the opposite side. Project the film onto the screen in a dry run so as to set the height that the camera needs to be, then set the focal range(zoom) to get in as close to the image being projected so that the top and bottom of the projected image aligns with the top and bottom of what your camera is seeing. As old film stock is 4:3 aspect ratio, it would be sensible to set your camera to record at that aspect ratio so that the left and right sides of the projected image will align with the left and right side of what the camera is seeing. If your SD Card-based digital camera only allows 16:9 shooting, might be time to dig out your old Video-8 camera for this job! In this event, make sure you've got some blank cassettes handy. If the digital camera allows 4:3, no problem, once you've captured your content, copy it across to your computer and edit it. If you're using your old Video-8, or your old VHS-C cam-corder, or that big old monster that took full-sized VHS cassettes and crushed your shoulder when you were out shooting(ouch!), then you'll need to run the output through a "capture card device" into your computer. Once that's done, you can then edit your content. The inversion mentioned earlier will flip the image so it will be right-way-round, signs or posters or anything else with text on them will be the right way around. If you're using Cyberlink Power Director version 8 upwards, you'll have the means to flip the image, you'll also have the means to convert the content to 16:9 via the CLPV facility.
J put on Y T a video film 9.5 mm with a Samsung Galaxy Ace4 and a triformat projector ( Heurtier tri-film 8 -9.5 - 16 mm ) , if we have few films to digitize it's obviously much less expansive and easy .
Great video. I've been transferring films slides and stills this way for decades. Correcting colours is easy on films. Just find as white a scene and white balance the camera. Also get the projector and camera as close to the screen as possible. This will give you the sharpest image.
What to project to a white fabric and put the camera to the other side, then flip the pictures horizontally with any video editor program? I watched a video time ago using this way and results were pretty good (she transfered 16mm films) I wanted to do the same with my ones, when I got the projector's belt melted down (the rubber died out), so I have to find another one or to buy another projector.
@Thane Mac It's not impossible, my dad (an electronics engineer) did it too. He hooked up an oscilloscope to a point somewhere on the circuit board of the camera, and to the motor of the projector. It shows two overlapping square waves, which have to be perfectly aligned. He created a little loopback circuit (fully analog) which adjusts the speed of the projector motor. You have to sync them once manually (with a knob on the circuit), just looking at the scope, and once they are synced well enough they circuit is able to keep them synchronized... most of the time. You still have to keep an eye on it, sometimes it drifts too fast and then it loses sync, but most of the time it works great.
Hello friend, excellent result without having to scan frame by frame, but could you tell us how you configured the video camera to avoid flickering? (shutter speed or what other setting?) Thank you, very good video, greetings from Argentina.
Hello - we really didn't take flicker into consideration in this video, but there are a number of comments below that discuss various ways to combat it if it becomes an issue.
I've been using the Wolverine Pro digital scanner and I usually have to run the finished product through software to cut down on noise and make it somewhat acceptable. The Wolverine puts out a video that's very pixelated if viewed full screen on a laptop. I'll have to try your method to compare. I'm wondering what would happen if I use your method and then run the video made off the wall through enhancement software. That would be interesting to know.
It would be interesting to see the difference between our solution and the Wolverine product. Too bad it’s so pixelated. Feel free to peruse the comments to the video - lots of good information there.
My camera keeps picking up the changes of the frames I've tried speeding up and slowing down the film speeds with some improvements but still have this issue in the digital versions. It plays fine on the wall but looks choppy in the digital camera recording. Im using a piece of printer paper the image quality on it looks pretty good but im having issues because my eyes see it on the wall it looks fine but the camera records it different than my eyes see it.
Interesting. We didn't have too much trouble but that might well have been because of dumb luck. There is some discussion of frame rates in the comments here - I'm afraid I don't have too many suggestions other than to change the rate of the recording camera (which you have done).
@@chriss4365 Took a look at your video and I think I see what you're talking about. Is the camera you're recording with on manual exposure? No auto-iso or anything like that? It also feels like the film is not moving through the projector at a regular speed - some of the movies feel a bit slow; others feel normal. For the flickering, no real suggestions other than what we have already discussed. Feel free to look through the comments in our video as there is quite a bit of good information that has come to light over the years after we did the original video.
It's curious that you didn't mention the problem of flicker. There are several comments below about how to set frame rates to avoid it, but they seem to assume that a variable-speed projector turns at a perfectly steady speed once you set it. I haven't seen that come true, so far. They're mechanical; they drift.
It is curious I didn't mention the problem of flicker in the original video. As luck would have it, we didn't have much of an issue with the flicker when we did our original video. Also, of course, when we did the video several years ago I wasn't nearly as up on the details as I am today. As for the idea that a projector runs at a steady pace, you're absolutely right but I fear that there are few remedies other than sending your film out to be scanned to take care of the fact that they just won't run at a perfect rate. Even brand-new the variability of the projectors was probably noteworthy - let alone how they are now, several decades later. No one who built the 8mm projectors from the 1950s and 1960s (and onwards) ever thought we would be using them for this sort of a task.
Question for you guys, my camcorder allows me to change the frame rate between 60p/30p/24p. If I switch from standard (30p) and record my Super8 movies in 24p, will that help make the image clearer? I understand Super8 films were mainly filmed in 18p, is the closure frame rate I can get to this the better? Or does it not matter?
I'm afraid this question is above my pay grade. I'm not sure how the frame rates affect things. I would assume that 24p would be the smartest place to start, regardless of the frame rate of the 8mm film. 24p is the standard rate for film, so it would keep you from having any problems down the road on the recording end. Anything else I could add would just be guessing. Sorry I can't be more help.
Yeah, sounds like getting shutter speeds to sync properly, especially with these old projectors, can be a real challenge. No-one seems to know just what the frame rate is - or if it's even remotely reliable.
Good question. Moving it back might well work; putting some black card around the edge of the frame on the wall would keep stray reflections down; also making sure all the optics are clean - both the camera and the projector.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird thank you so much. I try not to use it too much bc I don't want the light bulb to burn out. Most of my families 8mm home movies from the 60's have been transfered. This one is special. For some reason, the film is upside down, so more than likely, no one has seen it. Thanks to modern tech, I can simply flip it when editing
Yeah, good question. Sorry it took a while to get back to you on this. In short, you don't sync the camera to the film. Unfortunately, we don't know what the frame rate is on the projector and even if we did, we can't really get the two to start and stop at exactly the right time. Our technique here is a bit more bare-bones than a number of other ways to approach this issue. Hopefully there won't be too many black frames.
Projector - no idea - it's from the 1960s and it's a straight Kodak 8mm movie projector. The camera in this case is a Blackmagic Pocket camera with, I think a 25mm lens on it, but any camera and lens that will focus relatively close will do well.
IMPORTANT to note. The Blackmajic camera is a wonderful camera to use for this method of transfer. Those not fortunate to own a Blackmajic might have a consumer video camera that will not hold up when it comes to film that was shot in darkened indoor scenes. Lots of video noise or graininess. Hard to watch.
I did this exact thing it turned out OK then I got a wolverine 8mm digital converter and it was a little harder to use butt came out better than expected
Regarding fps....as a former professional film editor we know that most silent film ran at 30 frames per second and sound film ran at 24 frames per second. Choosing 60 frames per second should alleviate most issues or 30 fps in a pinch
It’s kind of crazy how older videos from pre 80” well 90’s are better quality then the utter shit that cameras were in the 1990’s. We lost 10 good yrs of home made video that I’m still trying to clean.
Rule 1. Look for your local video film maker clubs. Many many of these guys...especially the oldies have way better...way way way better projectors and are usually really likely and willing to help you project and copy your old stuff. Sure a pro company can make individual frame scan copies but yep its pricey. So you wanna DIY...well... This method works ok .. It is great for fun. It's not the best...but great for baby in the yard movies. BUT...just before you start...try Rule 2 If you have really archive type shots...then there are still other folk who may still wanna help. For example there were an estimated 60+ cine cameras on Elm Street in Houston.. You know the day!....and lots of those images have never been seen. . Or films of the NASA rocket days Or old Disney Park movies are adored and cherished ... But most of all.... Your City in the 60's...This stuff is historic gold dust...and maybe your local libraries or university might want to help you make the copy for posterity...so first off. .ask around...there are guys who are willing and happy to help...and hey you'll get better results and maybe meet cool people. So back to DIY OK here's some thoughts. Please dont project onto "pure" or "glossy" white! Please NO. Matt Grey is way better than white for a screen. A nice piece of art card is good. This prevents "white burn" out on your video from high intensity reflection affecting your image and the automatic iris on your camera...and gives a better balance to the old colour... and won't affect the image. Don't focus the edges...focus the image... It might shift about...well then shift the lens whilst projecting. You've loads of time! Copy it twice? Video editing is easier than film splicing...trust me it is! To be honest this projector scares me. It looks like a device to eat film! The "modest price" plastic lens on this projector wont give high def results...but omg..the incredible tight figure of 8 lacing is not a top of the range...and a mangling waiting to happen. I can hear the Jaws soundtrack from here! So back to rule 1 If you don't know much about the projector and projecting. .. or your kit is modest priced hardware. .. ( no offence intended but this is almost a toy projector )...then Go ask the over 60's. Or your library. ..video club etc You won't be disappointed. Happy Filming
Possibly, but people have had many issues with that scanner. And we aren't suggesting it's the only way to scan film, simply a way to get the images on to a medium you can view.
My wife and I will soon be celebrating our 55th Anniversary. And guess what, I have some 8mm movies from our Navy "honeymoon."Myr old Argus 8mm movie projector still works, so we've enjoyed looking at days gone by-scratches, dirt and all. I appreciate the tip on re-recording these classics. Most importantly, we don't mind that they're not perfect; the films just bring back wonderful memories. Thank you!
Some OK advice here. A few added suggestions would be;
The room doesn't need to be as dark as possible. Varying, small amounts of incandescent light can improve contrast and white balance issues in the original films.
Keep your projected image small, like no more than 6 inches square. This will improve sharpness and clarity.
Any good bright-white matte printer paper will work well. No need to buy a special projection surface.
If the films are important to you and your family, don't use a Brownie! Hunt down a decent projector with variable speed control to reduce flicker and a good lens. Bolex-Paillard M8 or a model by ELMO will work wonders! You might not get a second chance!
If the films are important to you, then don't run them through a vintage projector, have them professionally transferred.
......No, your advice is NOT OK......don't suggest incorrect information, Cletus........a completely dark room is best, for this ridiculous method. Contrast and white balance etc. is done in post.....get ALL the quality you can (from a pitch black room first). Gheese....some people.
Only film which has been damaged from being kept in a bad environment that has experienced serious shrinkage will have problem with a sprocket projector. 99% of film will play fine through a projector. Also instead of capturing the projected image, you can remove the projector's shutter and point a lens directly into the projector itself with a 4K video camera and capture stellar images. Professional film scanners are nice for 35mm because the larger formats can't shrink more than 1% before it clogs a projector. That's rare with 16mm and even more rare with 8mm. It's an easy format to work with considering you have a high quality projector that is cleaned and lubricated. Improper loading of film can also result in excess wear.
@@benkleschinsky Remove projector's shutter? How? hmmmm how about frame rates???
@@chrisw5742 Variable speed projector. 24fps DSLR. Speed up projector to 20fps on three blade shutter. Creates 60Hz NTSC frequency without flicker. If you want PAL then 25fps on DSLR. 16.6fps on projector creates 50Hz signal.
My family found old 16mm films when we bought our house and my dad purchased a projector for 7 bucks. We had to replace a belt with a rubber band because it was broken. We have films fron the early 20's. Thanks for the info on how to film these amazing stories to save for future generations to enjoy.
I would love to see them!
@@theechickengamerz I just uploaded one of them. Not the best quality but still pretty cool.
Yes, after some research, I found out that the projector's frame rate is important to prevent flicker. One needs to use a variable speed projector (as shown on several other do-it-yourself 8mm projection to digital RUclips videos) and increase the speed from the standard 16 frames per second (18 frames for Super 8) to 20 frames per second and adjust your video recorder to 60 frames per second. The standard 30 frames per second may work but with some flicker. Perhaps the projector you used plays at 20 frames per second and that is why you did not get flicker.
Could be - thanks for adding that piece of information. We didn't delve too far into frame rates (obviously) but more info is always better.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird Thank you for the very informative instructions on how to do this. It's amazing how stable a video you got from the projection.
Is it that the frame rate of the video has to be proportionate to the projector? I don’t have variable speed projector....thinking about workarounds
Although standard 8mm film is recorded at and meant to be captured at 16fps. If you speed it up it plays faster motion than its supposed to. A lot of fixed projectors have a speed of 18fps so you want a variable speed projector to slow it down. The flickering or missing frames you see recorded at 24fps on your camera can be replaced in post process with repeated frames. In the old days we called it a Step Print. Great interpolation software in Film 9 that can be set to any frame rate you want with great results.
You were awesome! Thank you so much for making a well done film with no fluff. Very pleasant to listen to. Wish there were more like you!
Thanks for your comments!
To put audio life with a personal touch back into these old videos, I set up a table and chairs with a mic in the center of the table and my Sony A7rii pointed at the table. Those family members remaining sat around the table and provided the documentation of who, what, when and where. If your capturing video camera has a 16:9 aspect ratio it gives plenty of room to ad comments during post processing along the black boarder.
Brilliant idea! That would add so much to the videos. Thanks for the suggestion. I’m going to do that exact thing with my dad.
Awesome! Thanks Alastair Bird from Alistair Eagle. I'm just about to digitize some movies we made in college in the 70's. Very helpful.
Nice to hear from you! Please check the comments for lots of input from people who have more experience than I in this realm. We did the video quite some time ago..
Being from vancouver, its incredible seeing the pne from half a decade ago. thanks for sharing!
my in-laws trusted me with the grandparents old film reels (being the family videographer/photographer). I did exactly what you did. I had a bugger of a time changing the frame rate on the camcorder (using a Sony HDR-TD10). I got the frame rate to 30, opposed to 60, and it reduced the flickering and horizontal lines significantly. Took a LOT of trial and error to get it right.
They had some 2 hours of film reels. Some 20 minute films and some 5 minute films. You are using the exact same projector as they trusted me with. I used card stock paper. Glad to know a simple method was actually a decent way to go.
We were getting nervous reading your review...sounded like things might have gone horribly wrong, but so glad that things worked out
At 3:30, the film sprockets are facing the wrong way.
That's because there's a twist in the film as it comes off the feed reel. If he ran the projector like this, then it'd ruin the film.
Haha....it's probably tail out.....!?
Sharp observation probably just to do the video
Wow! Good catch! No wonder he can't get the film to engage on the sprocket!
It took me a while to find a projector, and I had problems with it.
After fiddling for days so my projector sprockets are not eating the 50+ year old film, I looked online about transferring my 5 reels of film.
Most services are from 3 to 7 dollars for a 3" reel. Costco wanted about 10 times that. Transfer services clean the film, and you have no flicker issues.
Had I known up front about the better rates , I would have looked for a film editor rather than the projector. The editing machine is hand cranked, and you can get a quick view of what is on the reel before spending money on a transfer.
Thanks for the info. There seem to be more places doing it for less money and providing much higher quality final images.
I had that projector when I was a kid. Had a lot of fun with it.
Me too! The Brownie projector was simple but well made and quite reliable!
I transfer 6 rolls of childhood memories to digital using my cell phone. At lest 80 percent successful. Transferred them to a USB drive an sent them to my kids. If they viewed them once I'd be surprised. My guess is they formatted over the mp4 files and used it to archive their own memories.
Dennis, upload to RUclips.....and your grandkids or great grandkids will be amazed in the future. 🙂
(Dennis, did you talk ,also, over the film, explaining what was happening? Also, had you any problems......I'm just wondering about the 20% that was less successful. )
Cheers. Tossie, Ireland.
Dear Alastair Bird, Excellent tutorial. I just bought a Bell & Howell 8mm projector and I'll be digitizing my family's old 8mm film as soon as it arrives. I know regular 8mm film runs at 16 frames per second and video can run at 24 or 30 frames per second. I assume since you did not talk about the difference in frame rates that it should not be an issue, is that correct? FYI - I'll be saving a tremendous amount of money as it would have cost $1,500 to transfer all the film professionally and $300 to buy a Wolverine 8mm Transfer machine. The Bell & Howell 8mm projector only cost me $195 with a 30 day warranty.
Let us know how your transfer comes out. I tried this recently and the framerate differences (I tried recording at both 30 and 60fps) created a terrible strobing on the final product. No way to control it without some serious additional hardware...
@@smichelsen I'm still waiting on the projector to arrive. As it turns out by luck, the 8mm projector I bought has variable speed, so if I do get the strobe effect, I can increase (or decrease) the film speed until it disappears. I found out that from another RUclips video that speeding up the film to 20 fps and recording it at 60 fps eliminates the strobe effect, so I'll see if that works. My digital camera can do 1280 x 720 at 60 fps. Of course if you speed up the film to 20fps you will then, if you want, reduce the speed back down in editing. I did finally figure out how to slow the digital recording down 20% (0.8) in my Roxio Creator 2011 Pro video editing software so the speed is returned back to 16 fps for regular 8mm and to reduce it by 10% (.9) for Super8 to get the original 18 fps. But I think the key to eliminating flicker is going to be the variable speed projector. I will let you know what works.
@@Jeff-wb3hh Thanks for that! I have also in the last few days patched together that data from a few youtube videos. I see that Canon made a line of projectors that have a variable speed knob - I believe it has a range of 12-22fps. I am going to be getting one and will try the 20fps - 60fps idea also. I also considered 15pfs - 60fps; a 4:1 ratio rather than 3:1; not sure how the result would differ. I see that the B&H 10MS and other models also all do variable speed - good luck!
@@smichelsen I received the Bell & Howell a couple days ago. Unfortunately it was not the model they said it was. But it did have adjustable speed. So I tried it, but it ran slow and the speed was uneven and as I tried to adjust the speed the film stopped and burned. It also broke my film several times. After trying a couple more times and have it stop three more times I gave up. What I did see from the Bell & Howell, when the film was running, was a very sharp bright image what revealed the grain of the film. Since this was a very poor restoration job and the wrong model, I returned it for a full refund. Now I bought another one that supposedly works. It will arrive Sunday, supposedly, but probably Monday. Slowing the film down to 15fps is a good idea, then you can capture at full HD (or higher) at 30fps and record the grain of the film like I saw on the screen. Maybe Alastair's Kodak projector ran a little slow at 15fps and that's why he didn't have a problem with flicker.
@@smichelsen The second 8mm projector arrived, so I will see how that works. As a backup I also bought the B&H 10MS as you suggested for my Super 8 (also does 8mm). I wish I knew about the B&H 10MS earlier. It's a newer model and the owner said it is in perfect working order, so hopefully those will work well enough to finally try some transfers. In the meantime I bought a Wolvarine MovieMaker Pro and transferred some of my 8mm and Super 8 using that machine and the results are excellent, however I had two machines brake on me, and I will not exchange another one. Instead I returned the second broken one for a full refund. The Wolvarine machines are more like toys, but when they work they do work well. So hopefully the projector method will work well enough to do my movies. I have to say this has been a little frustrating, but it will be worth it. Also, I just found out that more sophisticated digital cameras can change the frame rate to just about anything one wants, so that is another option. I'll let you now how the projector method works and how it compares to the Wolvarine MovieMaker Pro individual frame scanner method.
Nice advice and suggestions. Thanks for the video
Some video editing software provides for inversion left-for-right of the image. With this in mind, make a screen that can stand on a table vertically. Place the projector on one side of the screen, the video camera goes on the opposite side. Project the film onto the screen in a dry run so as to set the height that the camera needs to be, then set the focal range(zoom) to get in as close to the image being projected so that the top and bottom of the projected image aligns with the top and bottom of what your camera is seeing. As old film stock is 4:3 aspect ratio, it would be sensible to set your camera to record at that aspect ratio so that the left and right sides of the projected image will align with the left and right side of what the camera is seeing. If your SD Card-based digital camera only allows 16:9 shooting, might be time to dig out your old Video-8 camera for this job! In this event, make sure you've got some blank cassettes handy. If the digital camera allows 4:3, no problem, once you've captured your content, copy it across to your computer and edit it. If you're using your old Video-8, or your old VHS-C cam-corder, or that big old monster that took full-sized VHS cassettes and crushed your shoulder when you were out shooting(ouch!), then you'll need to run the output through a "capture card device" into your computer. Once that's done, you can then edit your content. The inversion mentioned earlier will flip the image so it will be right-way-round, signs or posters or anything else with text on them will be the right way around. If you're using Cyberlink Power Director version 8 upwards, you'll have the means to flip the image, you'll also have the means to convert the content to 16:9 via the CLPV facility.
J put on Y T a video film 9.5 mm with a Samsung Galaxy Ace4 and a triformat projector ( Heurtier tri-film 8 -9.5 - 16 mm ) , if we have few films to digitize it's obviously much less expansive and easy .
Wow, thanks a lot for this guidance!!
You’re welcome!
Thanks for sharing! I knew that was the Vancouver PNE right away when I saw the roller coaster:) Its so neat to see it in its hay day 🤩
Great video. I've been transferring films slides and stills this way for decades.
Correcting colours is easy on films. Just find as white a scene and white balance the camera. Also get the projector and camera as close to the screen as possible. This will give you the sharpest image.
This looks way more fun than investing in dedicated systems
What to project to a white fabric and put the camera to the other side, then flip the pictures horizontally with any video editor program? I watched a video time ago using this way and results were pretty good (she transfered 16mm films) I wanted to do the same with my ones, when I got the projector's belt melted down (the rubber died out), so I have to find another one or to buy another projector.
How do you synchronise frame rates?
@Thane Mac It's not impossible, my dad (an electronics engineer) did it too. He hooked up an oscilloscope to a point somewhere on the circuit board of the camera, and to the motor of the projector. It shows two overlapping square waves, which have to be perfectly aligned. He created a little loopback circuit (fully analog) which adjusts the speed of the projector motor. You have to sync them once manually (with a knob on the circuit), just looking at the scope, and once they are synced well enough they circuit is able to keep them synchronized... most of the time. You still have to keep an eye on it, sometimes it drifts too fast and then it loses sync, but most of the time it works great.
@@GerbenWijnja while that's a great solution it's beyond most people's abilities, and the issue is not even discussed in the video.
Hello friend, excellent result without having to scan frame by frame, but could you tell us how you configured the video camera to avoid flickering? (shutter speed or what other setting?) Thank you, very good video, greetings from Argentina.
Hello - we really didn't take flicker into consideration in this video, but there are a number of comments below that discuss various ways to combat it if it becomes an issue.
I've been using the Wolverine Pro digital scanner and I usually have to run the finished product through software to cut down on noise and make it somewhat acceptable. The Wolverine puts out a video that's very pixelated if viewed full screen on a laptop. I'll have to try your method to compare. I'm wondering what would happen if I use your method and then run the video made off the wall through enhancement software. That would be interesting to know.
It would be interesting to see the difference between our solution and the Wolverine product. Too bad it’s so pixelated. Feel free to peruse the comments to the video - lots of good information there.
My camera keeps picking up the changes of the frames I've tried speeding up and slowing down the film speeds with some improvements but still have this issue in the digital versions. It plays fine on the wall but looks choppy in the digital camera recording. Im using a piece of printer paper the image quality on it looks pretty good but im having issues because my eyes see it on the wall it looks fine but the camera records it different than my eyes see it.
Interesting. We didn't have too much trouble but that might well have been because of dumb luck. There is some discussion of frame rates in the comments here - I'm afraid I don't have too many suggestions other than to change the rate of the recording camera (which you have done).
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird I changed the setting to lowest quality but can't adjust frame rate.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird Here is one sample of what I got ruclips.net/video/ikfl6DTuy6Y/видео.html
@@chriss4365 Took a look at your video and I think I see what you're talking about. Is the camera you're recording with on manual exposure? No auto-iso or anything like that? It also feels like the film is not moving through the projector at a regular speed - some of the movies feel a bit slow; others feel normal. For the flickering, no real suggestions other than what we have already discussed. Feel free to look through the comments in our video as there is quite a bit of good information that has come to light over the years after we did the original video.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird I'm not sure what iso setting to use ny camera only has a few. I kept the projector at the same speed the whole time.
It's curious that you didn't mention the problem of flicker. There are several comments below about how to set frame rates to avoid it, but they seem to assume that a variable-speed projector turns at a perfectly steady speed once you set it. I haven't seen that come true, so far. They're mechanical; they drift.
It is curious I didn't mention the problem of flicker in the original video. As luck would have it, we didn't have much of an issue with the flicker when we did our original video. Also, of course, when we did the video several years ago I wasn't nearly as up on the details as I am today. As for the idea that a projector runs at a steady pace, you're absolutely right but I fear that there are few remedies other than sending your film out to be scanned to take care of the fact that they just won't run at a perfect rate. Even brand-new the variability of the projectors was probably noteworthy - let alone how they are now, several decades later. No one who built the 8mm projectors from the 1950s and 1960s (and onwards) ever thought we would be using them for this sort of a task.
Question for you guys, my camcorder allows me to change the frame rate between 60p/30p/24p. If I switch from standard (30p) and record my Super8 movies in 24p, will that help make the image clearer? I understand Super8 films were mainly filmed in 18p, is the closure frame rate I can get to this the better? Or does it not matter?
I'm afraid this question is above my pay grade. I'm not sure how the frame rates affect things. I would assume that 24p would be the smartest place to start, regardless of the frame rate of the 8mm film. 24p is the standard rate for film, so it would keep you from having any problems down the road on the recording end. Anything else I could add would just be guessing. Sorry I can't be more help.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird No prob, thanks for your help :)
The problem I’ve run into is the shutter speed.
There is a lot of rolling shutter effect when I try to video the projection.
Yeah, sounds like getting shutter speeds to sync properly, especially with these old projectors, can be a real challenge. No-one seems to know just what the frame rate is - or if it's even remotely reliable.
Is there a way to not make it glowy? Maybe if I move the projector farther back
Good question. Moving it back might well work; putting some black card around the edge of the frame on the wall would keep stray reflections down; also making sure all the optics are clean - both the camera and the projector.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird thank you so much. I try not to use it too much bc I don't want the light bulb to burn out. Most of my families 8mm home movies from the 60's have been transfered. This one is special. For some reason, the film is upside down, so more than likely, no one has seen it. Thanks to modern tech, I can simply flip it when editing
its a good idea to start teaching these kids about these camra and the are still cool and a lot of stuff
I assume the reason you have a breadth of vocabulary akin to Donald Trump is that English isn’t your first language.
So how do you synch the camera to the film?
Yeah, good question. Sorry it took a while to get back to you on this. In short, you don't sync the camera to the film. Unfortunately, we don't know what the frame rate is on the projector and even if we did, we can't really get the two to start and stop at exactly the right time. Our technique here is a bit more bare-bones than a number of other ways to approach this issue. Hopefully there won't be too many black frames.
Perfect! Thanks for the explanation.
Whats the projector, how old, what video camera and lens?
Projector - no idea - it's from the 1960s and it's a straight Kodak 8mm movie projector. The camera in this case is a Blackmagic Pocket camera with, I think a 25mm lens on it, but any camera and lens that will focus relatively close will do well.
IMPORTANT to note. The Blackmajic camera is a wonderful camera to use for this method of transfer. Those not fortunate to own a Blackmajic might have a consumer video camera that will not hold up when it comes to film that was shot in darkened indoor scenes. Lots of video noise or graininess. Hard to watch.
Good point. The dynamic range on some cameras can be pretty limited.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Say, where can I find a bulb for a 300 watt Brownie Projector?
Afraid I can't help with that. I don't know where to even start looking.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird that's ok, thanks
@@Lowmandavis ebay
I did this exact thing it turned out OK then I got a wolverine 8mm digital converter and it was a little harder to use butt came out better than expected
Good to hear the Wolverine worked out all right. Things have changed a little in the years since we did this video.
Thanks, this is helpful.
nice work
i once saw a video of a guy using his 8mm projector to project it directly on the sensor of the bmpcc. what is your opinion on this?
probably bad for the sensor
This produces excellent results. ruclips.net/video/AyKtLiLQyeQ/видео.html
Very cool thanks
Can we see all that footage?
Regarding fps....as a former professional film editor we know that most silent film ran at 30 frames per second and sound film ran at 24 frames per second. Choosing 60 frames per second should alleviate most issues or 30 fps in a pinch
THANK YOU! 🍿🤓👍
Thank you!
It’s kind of crazy how older videos from pre 80” well 90’s are better quality then the utter shit that cameras were in the 1990’s. We lost 10 good yrs of home made video that I’m still trying to clean.
No kidding. The early video was pretty awful. And not at all archival.
Nice
yes what about FPS
Dennis Carroll Or shutter speed of the projector vs the digital camera.
Otherwise you get that rolling shutter effect.
@@brandon_teiad6805 I didn't see an answer. What should the frame rate be on the camera/shutter speed?
Rule 1.
Look for your local video film maker clubs.
Many many of these guys...especially the oldies have way better...way way way better projectors and are usually really likely and willing to help you project and copy your old stuff.
Sure a pro company can make individual frame scan copies but yep its pricey.
So you wanna DIY...well...
This method works ok ..
It is great for fun.
It's not the best...but great for baby in the yard movies.
BUT...just before you start...try
Rule 2
If you have really archive type shots...then there are still other folk who may still wanna help.
For example there were an estimated 60+ cine cameras on Elm Street in Houston..
You know the day!....and lots of those images have never been seen. .
Or films of the NASA rocket days
Or old Disney Park movies are adored and cherished ...
But most of all.... Your City in the 60's...This stuff is historic gold dust...and maybe your local libraries or university might want to help you make the copy for posterity...so first off. .ask around...there are guys who are willing and happy to help...and hey you'll get better results and maybe meet cool people.
So back to DIY
OK here's some thoughts.
Please dont project onto "pure" or "glossy" white! Please NO.
Matt Grey is way better than white for a screen. A nice piece of art card is good.
This prevents "white burn" out on your video from high intensity reflection affecting your image and the automatic iris on your camera...and gives a better balance to the old colour... and won't affect the image.
Don't focus the edges...focus the image...
It might shift about...well then shift the lens whilst projecting.
You've loads of time!
Copy it twice?
Video editing is easier than film splicing...trust me it is!
To be honest this projector scares me.
It looks like a device to eat film!
The "modest price" plastic lens on this projector wont give high def results...but omg..the incredible tight figure of 8 lacing is not a top of the range...and a mangling waiting to happen.
I can hear the Jaws soundtrack from here!
So back to rule 1
If you don't know much about the projector and projecting. .. or your kit is modest priced hardware. ..
( no offence intended but this is almost a toy projector )...then
Go ask the over 60's.
Or your library. ..video club etc
You won't be disappointed.
Happy Filming
AH huh i knew it the pne play land roller coaster
Like
A cheap Wolverine scanner does a better job.
Possibly, but people have had many issues with that scanner. And we aren't suggesting it's the only way to scan film, simply a way to get the images on to a medium you can view.
What a terrible way to transfer film to digital.
It’s a very old video. Lots of new technology these days. But, at least you can see what’s on that film and she’s it with your friends….
Great, first step, get out the 8mm projector that NO ONE HAS. Ya think that might be why we’re here?
Thanks for nothing. 🤦♂️
Any time. This is how we did it. Lots of other videos out there about other approaches.