Clutch Chris Webber (34pts/19rebs) Outplays Tim Duncan (33pts/20rebs) (2000)
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- One of the best power forward match-ups ever - Chris Webber vs. Tim Duncan. This one doesn't end in the usual way though. Timmy has a great first quarter by scoring 16 points, but C-Webb shows that his label as a choke artist isn't quite accurate - he scores many clutch baskets over Duncan and stops him on the defensive end as well. January 13, 2000.
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C-Webb in his prime could go toe to toe with any PF, and most centers. He had great footwork, a nice jumpshot, sweet handles, good athleticism, amazing passing skills, and good size. I think that the top 3 PFs of all time are Duncan, Barkley, and Malone in no particular order. Webber was probably just as skilled as any of those guys. His career was marred by injuries and getting robbed of a trip to the 2002 NBA finals by a rigged series against the Lakers.
I can see people saying that Duncan was better. Tim is a true PF/C. He can play either position equally well, offensively and defensively. That, along with his championships, is why he is one of the top 20-30 players all time. Webber had serious game though. People who label him a choke artist must be thinking of just 1 game in 1993.
Garnett was better than all of those guys.
***** Garnett was great for sure. I can't put him ahead of those 3 though. Duncan was better than KG, prime vs prime. Barkley and Malone were better scorers than KG ever thought of being. Barkley was a better rebounder. I'll give Garnett the edge on defense.
hartsickdisciple Better scorers, ok, that's one thing. Edge? DESTROYS them on defense (Malone and Barkley). Duncan has an edge defensively over KG (because of his longevity) and Garnett was better offensively.
2007-08 till 2012-13 where both players had good supporting casts? Both aged 32-37 luckily.
Kevin Garnett -
17.5ppg on 49.2% eFG and 81.9% FT
AST% = 14.7
TOV% = 10.9
TRB% = 16.8
BLK% = 2.6
STL% = 1.9
Tim Duncan -
18.2ppg on 48.1% eFG and 65.6% FT
AST% = 13.6
TOV% = 10.6
TRB% = 17.6
BLK% = 3.9
STL% = 1.2
Garnett was more productive offensively. Ppg has almost nothing to do with it, not just to make my case, I have used it forever, and it's right. You see KD's scoring streak of 30+? It ended because he went 10/12 and didn't take enough shots .. he could have gone on 30+ for like 50 games if he TRIED to get as many points as he could, points are about shot attempts .. efficiency is what matters.
And so Garnett is quite clearly more productive with his scoring and overall offense because of the huge gap in FT%, and margin in efficiency from the field. Obviously Duncan can do better than 65% (only a little, below 70% shooter for career) but then Garnett can do better than his poor 7.4rpg (13.6% TRB) in the 23 game finals run in 09-10!! (Really hurt his overall rate for this comparison, and this is why I do series by series a lot of the time, because Garnett is averaging double doubles in those other years, 14rpg in 2013, but not much help overall having his TEAM play only 6 games. But anyway, they might have been able to do better in some cases, but it happened, it's production and that's all we have. Also Garnett missed 08-09! That could have helped this a lot!!! The 23 game drag down in 2010 and the fact that he missed 08-09 which could have been another championship! And I would have seriously fancied my chances on that!(This is not about the fact that Garnett would have another ring [TEAM ACHIEVEMENT!] it's the fact that he would have played 20+ games and would have helped his avg's/ production) I feel like making an excuse for Garnett in the rebounding department, and its fair right? Considering that his TRB% was 16.8 and Duncan's 17.6% the way it is and Garnett's were affected big time by 09 miss to and poor in 10 which happened to be a long run, I'm just gonna say that they were both as good as each other, and with defensive rebounding, they were. Defense doesn't have much too it, other than your own experience in watching! And I've said Duncan has a SLIGHT edge defensively at this part of their careers, the overall dominance on that end from 08 to 13.
So with actual production, Garnett has an edge offensively, and from own knowledge, Duncan has an edge defensively ... Wouldn't you FAIRLY agree? And both mean as much as each other .. 50% of the analysis on offense and 50 on defense. So they are equally dominant at this stage of their careers/ longevity just as good as each others, despite Duncan getting more praise for this.
So I compared them at this stage because they both had good teams, as I stated, if we were to compare production during the earlier and primes of their careers, we would have to take into account that Garnett was with SERIOUS TRASH and Duncan was with a pretty great team (and had D Rob as mentor ad so many factors that gave him advantages in improving his game! Really lucky that the Spurs had one off season because of injury to DR).
hartsickdisciple In their primes. (1999 till the comparison on the last post). It's alright to start at 1999 isn't it? I try to be so objective, and this could come across as random .. but that's when they both started to avg double doubles - 23 years old is usually the start of all players primes.
KG - Duncan
23.5ppg - 24.0ppg (efficiency, but just putting this up to show that they are taking as many shots and being involved as much as each other, because if one was at 15ppg and the other 30, the 15ppg will most likely have an advantage of picking choosing the most efficient shot).
eFG% = 46.2% - 50.7%
FT% = 75.8% - 69.8%
AST% = 24.4% - 18.9%
TRB% = 18.9% - 18.5%
TOV% = 13.1% - 13.0%
BLK% = 3.3% - 5.1%
STL% = 1.9% - 0.9%
Now c'mon man, players are always more efficient/ most efficient in their primes ALL of the legends are, watch the tape, Garnett had a real difficult time out there, having to use so much energy to guard his man, and protect the paint on defense and then carrying an offense getting double teamed and having real focus on him. This really effects the efficiency, obviously. Duncan got double teamed, you still need to get double if you have offensive capability and on a good team, but the defense he faced due to having a better team, was not the same as Garnett's, and that's why I bring in the supporting cast, because of what it's going to make the other teams defense do.
I can honestly say that having even good let alone great teammates, Garnett's over 50% from the field, not meaning to be hypothetical, but common sense is always the most important thing in analysis, shame no one has it these days. With his advantage in FT% and his clear ability to playmake to a higher standard, they are almost or ARE as productive as each other offensively.
At this point in their careers Garnett is definitely as good as Duncan on defense.
It's obvious that Garnett is at a disadvantage to be as efficient as Duncan, again it's just to give you an idea and sum up when I give these hypotheticals not to actually use the numbers, even if you don't want to give Garnett 50% from the field, and it was just like 48% with an equal cast to Duncan, that would still lead to him being more productive offensively overall with his greatness elsewhere. Not a hypothetical and not replacing the actual production, but just making a judgement .. Garnett produced this against this and that .. and Duncan produced this against this and that. I mean man, haha Garnett's cast is so unbelievably shit, seriously, UNBELIEVABLE.
So I think Garnett is better in his prime, more dominant throughout a career span, but they are so so similar with their production, so close.
Please read it all and change your mind, watch KG and Duncan or anyone, I always watch players, it helps me keep unbiased and like them and in the mood to give them credit.
I haven't made a bad case have I? Just re-think please. You can't go off of career nubers as shown, Garnett played 100 games of around 150 of his playoff games out of his prime and loads at an old age, where he is less productive.
hartsickdisciple And one more thing, Garnett is one of few big men better than C Webb at passing, and shoots all time great percentages from the mid range, like Dirk, Jordan, Durant %'s!!
And in comparison to Barkley and Malone, again Garnett is the greatest passing and playmaking PF, it's not too big offensively, Garnett is better than Malone offensively, more productive with his scoring and overall offense despite the situations they were in (John frickin' Stockton!) And obviously Garnett is better defensively, he is for sure better than Malone (MY FAVE PF) Numbers or just trust me seeing as I gave some things in the comparisons with Duncan.
Given Garnett's more difficult circumstances and taking that into account for how efficient they are from the field again, Barkley only has a slight edge offensively as he is beaten in FT% and the rest like nearly all others. I'm not gonna say he is more dominant than Barkley offensively, but it's close 'ish' and Garnett blows him away defensively (rebounding is split in offensive and defensive, Garnett is easily a better defensive rebounder, and Barkley has something else to hold over KG offensively with that off reb ability). If you take DEF into account as much as OFF, which obviously you should, no way is Barkley near.
C'mon, watch them all to get you in the mood for being fair and liking them all!
I don't feel as though anything I said was wrong! In any part 1,2,3!
This is when the West was loaded with the best Power Forwards in the NBA. Duncan, Malone, KG, C-Webb, Rasheed, and Dirk
Why you can't be deceived by how great someone is with All-Star appearances.
Don't forget Antonio McDyess too
Amare
I remember watching this game when I was in Jr High. Webb really did outplay Tim in a way that I have never seen anyone else do in the 4th quarter of this game. Shame injuries did him in because he really was one of the most talented big men to ever play.
tim still 33 points
Chris Webber was more entertaining to watch than.. any other PF.
Amare stoudemire? Shawn Kemp?
knicks fan he was better and he was the best player on his team
Zion Brooks Mike Bibby and peja hit all the clutch shots it was more of a 2004 well balanced type team he had I wouldn’t say webber was the best on the Kings cause he was a choker
@@casualfandestroyer2503 webber didn't need a pg to score he was already crafty and can pass
@@st4r444 not in the fourth quarter. Lol Webber choked nearly every big game
jason williams and chris webber - what a show
He was arguably the best player from 1999-2006. I agree that 2003 was his best year in terms of accomplishments, but in terms of stats it was 2002, his first MVP season.
looking at their numbers and the three duncan shot - which was just his second of his career - the better TEAM won not PLAYER, and if you have a 30-20 game I don't care if you lose you didn't get OUTPLAYED, it was head to head and fortunately the Kings were a bit better that day
Chris was my FAVORITE player. Skill and talent wise I think he was easily one of the best power forwards ever. However, history only remembers accolades and doesn't deal in what ifs. That Dohogney stolen ring in '02, and the year he was injured in 03 and every what if after that...His passing, quickness, Jumper, viciousness in finishing....Until his knee went he made every team he arrived to at least a playoff team. Warriors, brought them to the playoffs....Bullets...Playoffs....Kings....Obscurity to contenders.
All that being said, his current feud with the other members of the fab 5 really hurts my respect for him. In my eyes, when a group of friends all get along and that one person doesn't, he's the problem. It's not like this is work politics and they're ganging up on him. This is a former band of brothers. I think he just wanted to distance himself from that Timeout and UM scandal but the way he handled it ended up alienating his brothers. It doesn't matter what the quarrel is, friends work it out. Hopefully they do.
3rd year duncan vs really in his prime webber... still toe to toe... how is this a outplay?
clutch play. webber outplayed duncan at the end and won the game with several big buckets and a big assist as well as two forced turnovers on duncan on the other end. i mean it's plain as day. duncan played a tremendous game and the three at the end too just backs up his legendary status. duncan may have been a better player over his career than webber but this is one game one day and exactly what title describes. clutch chris webber outplaying duncan down the stretch. when duncan had 16 to 4 point advantage at the end of the 1st quarter it was pretty clear what was going to happen. webber was also playing against superior spurs interior. duncan and webber guarded each other several times but you notice when they were off each other webber was running into David Robinson while Duncan was able to abuse Divacs and Foster.
Both of them are my favorite PF ever!
I see people arguing over whether Duncan is a PF or a Center. Let's end this debate, shall we? Duncan can play both positions, but he's a PF.. Chris Bosh played Center for Miami half of their games the last 2 seasons, but that doesn't make him a Center. He's a PF. Same with Duncan. David Robinson was the starting center from 1997-2003 until he retired. Rasho Nesterovic (definitely not a PF), Nazr Muhammed (definitely not a PF), Francisco Elson, Fabricio Oberto, and Tiago Splitter have all started at Center the last 11 years for the Spurs (none are PF's). Duncan has played FAR more at the PF position than Center in his career. He sparingly plays Center, only when the Spurs go to smaller lineups, or when Pop wants to let Splitter defend their PF as to save Duncan's energy. Tim Duncan is a PF, period. Carry on. :)
if a player plays 70% of is career at center, he's a center, he only plays 30% of his career at Pf. Look at the stats dumbass
Tim Duncan is a PF because back then he played with David Robinson who was center. He mainly plays PF today because the Spurs now have Tiago Splitter but he alternates to the center sometimes
if chris never got hurt, he'd be the greatest PF of all time
Webber had great footwork and passing
Forget how fast Tim Duncan was sometimes, but then I quickly remember. How about that behind the back, drive kick to the 3 point line pass... he does that today but just a little "less quickly" lol
Shawn Elliot was hating on Webber real hard you can’t guard Duncan one on one well Duncan had to guard Webber also.
I always wanted to see SA and Sac play each other in the playoffs. Too bad it didn't happen till 06 when Webber was already gone
Webber playing like a G
C. Webb was doin work.
CWebb was in his pre-injury prime at about the same time Duncan and Garnett were in their prime, and Dirk was thereabouts too...early 2000s definitely had the most top quality PFs. Plus all these guys were in the Western Conference, crazy. IMHO if Webber was in his prime today, he would be hands down, by far, the best PF in the game. He never did win a ring, and will always be underrated for that reason, just like Barkley, but still, the dude had some amazing seasons in Sacramento before injury
Awesome Video. That J-Will alley-oop to Webber was accurate as shyt!
Webb was one of the best PF of all time till he got hurt !!!
Outplayed they maxed each other out but CWebb had the all around best skill as a 6’9 undersized PF
Duncan was drafted as a true center. Since thy already had Robinson, they listed Duncan as PF..but, which one of those two than played on the low block and which moved to the high post on offense. Defensively they were switching depending on the match ups..but offensively Duncan played closer to the basket than Robinson..he was the center. Last couple seasons he was undoubtedly the center for Spurs, unless you think Matt Bonner or Borias Diaw or whoever are centers..
I always loved CWebb's game, he's always good for some powerdunks.
And yes, prime Duncan is 2003 Duncan, ryguy2, right on.
WEBBER is the one of the top 20 best PF...
Webber had one more point, and Duncan had one more rebound. How is this Webber OUTPLAYING Duncan???
They were down like 14 at one point. Webber gets 10 in the 3rd, and makes the clutch plays in the end.
That's not outplaying, that's him catching up.
No that's outplaying your opponent in the fourth quarter. Put some respect on it, forreal. Webber was a beast
The Kings did win the game
so youre saying david robinson is a powerforward?
The commentator at the end says that Duncan didn't score a field goal in the 4th quarter, despite the fact that he hit a 3-pointer in the last minute.
If people would tell you Chris Webber is better than Tim Duncan...they would think you're crazy....video doesn't lie though. It's true...look at Chris Webber in this video matched up against Tim Duncan...the video does not lie.
Jay Dubz
Did you ever see that behind the opponent's back move, where the opponent thought the ball was passed behind him, but Chris Webber still had the ball the whole time? Yeah, Tim Duncan can't do that and he's a Hall of Famer. That's skill.. I love Tim Duncan too, but Webber is more exciting to watch for me. Duncan can have that status. I don't care.
you have your opinion and i have mine. sorely disagree with you on this. CW could not carry a team, or adjust when it was his time to take a steep back. TD has done both. who gives a fuck about fancy ball skill when there are championships to be won smh!
Shawn Johnson 2 years from now, but chris webber about to go to the hall of fame lol
C-Webb
The top 4 PF in the early 2000s: Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Chris Webber, and Rasheed Wallace
dont sleep on j'oneal
Wu Liwei Dirk, Jermaine
There's no argument, he was the best player during that time. Jordan handed the torch to Duncan, Duncan has handed the torch to LeBron. And 2003 was definitely his best season, without a doubt. Ended the year with a near quadruple-double in the NBA finals.
Because the only time Duncan plays PF is in all star game..he has been center his entire career..
i actually think all the big men of the spurs are pf/c lol. spltter blair bonner diaw can play both positions. although diaw is naturally a sf/pf and duncan has a good midrange game, is a good passer and is so good at the post, which makes him amazing for both positions
Chris Webber was the man back then. Meanwhile, Tim Duncan is still balling.
1:33 lol tim Duncan show some dribble skills and pass as point guard XD
The man in ur photo is a legend too.
A backboard legend yeah.
outplays? sounds like they were pretty much even
which is better garnett or duncan? I'm confused
dbreiden83080
Duncan had 33/20
Not sure he outplayed him..
In a 7 game series Tim would have badly outplayed Webber..
Duncan led the head to head career 16-9..
He had a great team
@@zionbrooks6736
So did Webber.. Sac was stacked for a few years.. Webber had injuries, but in his prime he had a real window to win some rings..
this was duncan's 3rd season... i'd be hard-pressed to call that his prime. considering they won 3 titles between 03 and 07
good shit duncan 13 yrs later still in the playoffs!!.. But im sayin Go Dubbs.warriorrs
CWEBB. Beast.
Lol and they keep calling Ducan a PF.. He's a CENTER. He's even playing his natural center position here
David Robinson was their center
He can play both positions, but he's a PF.. Chris Bosh played Center for Miami half of their games last season, but that doesn't make him a Center. He's a PF. Robinson was the starting center from 1997-2003 until he retired. Rasho Nesterovic (definitely not a PF), Nazr Muhammed (definitely not a PF), Francisco Elson, Fabricio Oberto, and Splitter have all started at Center the last 11 years for the Spurs (none are PF's). Duncan has played for more at the PF position than Center in his career. He sparingly plays Center, only when the Spurs go to smaller lineups. He's a PF, period.
Chris Webber really did act immature sometimes on the court, good player thou.
I have a question, if any1 could help me it would be appreciated. If a player blocks a shot and secures the ball, does it count as a block + rebound? Let's take Javale McGee for example when he caught/blocked the shot in midair, is that one motion considered 2 statistics? Thanks!
+Enter Pineal Yep, it definetly counts as a block and a rebound!
Thanks a bunch!
you seriously think Bonner is a center? he is a shooting guard in a PF body. Blair is like 6'6..Diaw used to be a Sg also..he is as you said SF/PF. The only one who could be called a center is Tiago..
Yes!
I'll give you the better post game but mid range no way C-Webb mid range game was solid, C-Webb passing is easily better than Duncans, C-Webb was wayyyy more athletic than Timmy, C-Webb can put the ball on the ground and beat his man off the dribble with ease, Tim Duncan is called the best PF because he won alot and his consistency but in terms of SKILL SET there are 3 maybe 4 PF with better or the same skill set. I'm not trying to disrespect him in anyway but everyone knows this.
Duncan wasnt in his prime this is only his 3 season.
respect it
Their numbers are almost identical, outplay is not the right word
Webb was great
Prime Duncan is 2003 Duncan.
C-Webb was a beast till he got hurt !!!
Nice Video.
Athleticism is an important trait in basketball, Blake Griffin averaged 20&10 on just athleticism, Shaq was athletic take that away then what, LeBron take away athleticism he would be half of what he is now and even Kobe, Duncan had a great skill set don't get me wrong but Barkely, Malone & C Webb had a better skill sets, even Kenny Smith, Shaq and Barkely said that C Webb skill set is just as good as Tim Duncans. Also I'm not disputing the greatest PF (Tim Duncan), I'm disputing skill sets.
What's that mean？
Dont also forget jermaine o'neal
someone please give Tim Duncan the Hot Sauce
let this be a lesson ,had the refs not interfered during 2002 Chris would be a champ and more than likely HOF player
Chris is the best pass in PF of all time
Karl Malone is the best scorer of PF of all time,
Dirk Notwisky is the best shooter of PF all time,
TD is the best defender of all PF of all time
Kevin Garnett, is the best speed of PF all time,
Charles Barkley has the best 2% scorer of PF all time
All these PF can do post move, but webber pass the best, malone steal the most, duncan block the most, KG and Charles is the average
By far? Going overboard with that statement.
Only 6’10 led him always not as good as Timmy , weaker in heart led him always be weaker than Malone and Barkley.Even facing Garnet and Kemp he had worse behavior.But except them he could dominate any PF even centers except Shaq and Alonzo . He was full of any skills inside outside passing shooting all greatest level . Even his late years piston he still great inside scorer his hook shot more powerful than his prime time can’t be guarded. I still think he should have be better!
i miss real NBA...
Yes, real...
Not like now!
i do n't think duncan was the best player before 2003,beofore that it was shaq fir sure.he led la in 3 rings,was the most dominant player in the league and he won duncan's spurs in 2 playoffs series.after 2003 it was tim and kobe who where the best until the last 2-3 years that i agree lebron is the best.
Duncan was the best player in the league in 1999, 2002 and 2003. Shaq was the best player in 2000 and 2001. In 2002 Duncan had an insane 29pts 17rbds 5assts 3blks average in the series against the Lakers but he could not do it with a team that was getting very old.
Ben Simmons would be way more useful to a team if he played like Chris Webber
💯🎯
Sean Elliot was a really good player and he seems to be a great guy, but that guy is one big homer, he was so biased whenever he called Spurs games.
Unboased broadcasters??
Outplayed is a bit of a stretch.
Yes... real~
Not like now...
Even tho Tim Duncan isn't one of my favorite players. Aint no way Webber better than Duncan.
one of
No, Chris Webber is best!
What? =_=
His skill set wasnt better
Barkley had a great post up and no one could guard his chubby ass in his prime. malone the best mid range shooter PF ever, not just a muscle head. you can't just say TD had better skills than these guys. But what is true is he was tallest and longest PF. He's just as much a center as a PF..just look at this clip and you see divac is matched up against him.
what I'd love to see is prime TD vs prime Hakeem...that would be a good battle
Webber is beter then duncan