Creating & Prototyping a 3D printed fully functional Helicopter cyclic for MSFS2020.
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2024
- Prototyping 101 of the 3d printed Helicopter cyclic and trying to match the real thing!
A massive Thank You to Sebi Woelke for the Intro and Logo!
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What really makes me happy is not only witnessing how precise and detailed all the work and effort you put into these things, but the genuine smile you can't hold back every time you reach a milestone in the assemblies. I think you're a very lucky guy to be doing what you really enjoy, and that's because you've made smart decisions in the past. Beat! Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for the kind words, Lets hope it continues! It always hard to know if something is going to work, and this was just one of those occasions it did. Kind regards, Karl
Having the skill to build a functional helicopter cyclic is cool... having the skill to build one that looks like it handles more realistically and has features I haven't seen on $500+ off-the-shelf equipment, is amazing.
Hi Charles, Thank you for the kind words, very humbled. There seems to be a lot of intrest in this and i need to get on and finish it! Kidn regards, Karl.
i don't fly helicoptors but just love watching the prototype process. This is so cool!
Thank You! I dont either! but thought id give it a go!
Thank you for your hard work and your dedication. Not only do you make these parts, but you also inform and show your subscribers how they are put together. Thank you once again Go ARMY
hello heli mech, thanks a lot! i'll prepare for this for a big friend that loves helicopter! he is a embraer pilot, but love to fly helicopter!
thanks for share and a big hug from Brazil. Thanks to share all those projetcts with us! you are the best!
Karl, again I must say you are a bloody genius. Brilliant. Smile on my face as well, And, good news that your sim arrived. Cheers
Thank you and humbled! I really look forward to taking this design a whole lot further.
I LOVE this design! Kudos!
Helicopter Pilot here (MH-47s in the military, others in civilian trim...) Looks like you've done a bang-up job there mate. Good on you...
Hello Karl, Thank you. This is something i spent a lot of time thinking about, but never actually got around to doing it.
excellent stuff mate!
Wow - and here I've been trying to make a cyclic from an old "Logic3" Joystick I got from Argos in 2007 and some cardboard tube from used Kitchen Rolls. Needless to say my cyclic sucks (cardboard tubes bend, especially where I rammed one inside another to get the required height) and what you have achieved here is precisely what I've had in my head for the last few months. So now I'm sad and depressed as I don't have any DIY skills, hardware, equipment, tools or money to do what you have done seemingly all too perfectly and easily. And I'm gobsmacked I just searched for "DIY cyclic" and this thoroughly intriguing and mesmerising video came up by you just two days after you posted it!
Hello Guy, Dont be disheartened. I try to make my designs availble to all and as low as possible. But you would rewuire a 3d printer. Dont bother with a printing service as that usually costs more than going out and buying the real thing. Got any friends that can print it for you? This is just a side project right now, but there does seem to be a lot intrest in this design. But as i say this is only version 1. Version 2 is already printed and waiting! Kind Regards Karl.
@@helimech8152 Thanks for the reply Karl, but I'm a software engineer, 20 years at GEC Avionics (now BAE SYSTEMS) writing the code for HUDs for C-17, F-5, F-16, EuroFighter and the fly-by-wire for B777, so hardware is not my forte (LOL). I've never been any good with my hands, didn't like woodwork or metalwork at school, jeez I've not even ever hung a picture!!! I find your videos quite amazing, with the ability to create prototypes and final products with the power and freedom a 3D Printer provides - it really is quite incredible seeing how far things have progressed in just a handful of years. I would love to give it a go as I do have 3D modelling experience from using Maxon Cinema 4D for home-made CGI. Maybe one day eh 😉
MAAAAN... i CANNOT WAIT TO BUILD ONE OF THESE! INSANE! ...... love your dedication. I have been patiently waiting for someone to come and help us heli enthusiasts to give a cost effective actual "REAL FEEL" cyclic and collective control set. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU ... I will be definately joining your PATRION!
This is so cool, I had to smile every time you did!
Love it 😍
Thanks for the rotorwing people some love 😀 looking forward to more 😍
I like it, It's a good way to get force trim for those who don't need force feedback and much simpler and cheaper too. I did have a slight concern about the steppers losing steps, but since the motor position doesn't actually matter in this instance, any skipping can simply be mitigated with larger steppers. Cogging isn't an issue since the steppers only really hold the position and the stick moves against the springs rather than the motor torque. My only remaining concern would be the hard centre provided by the pincer mechanism. I've no idea how that compares to a real helicopter, but I'd prefer dual cam centring for a smooth centre.
All good points, and thank you. As for centering, most helicopters us a linear spring system. Being a helicopter engineer, i reckon this perfoms exactly as the real aircraft. Or at least as close as im going to get with out using control rods and linkages, while keeping the soave used to a minimum. Kind Regards, Karl
I’m loving your work Karl.
Thank you! Slowly expanding now across different sims.
That is truly awesome, well done 👍
Thank you so much 😀
Awesome work again Karl
Thank you! Cheers!
So talented Karl - thank you!
Thank you and humbled.
Very nice. Can't wait to see the final version.
Thank you and I too look forward to seeing how this turns out.
Awesome project. Would love to see you do a walk through project for a force feedback yoke. I enjoy your videos and work.
Nice Job Karl!!!
Thanks Dale!
Fantastic Karl!
Many thanks!
Really cool stuff! Stumbled on your channel from researching 737 cockpits. Amazing work. been looking for a DIY cyclic with beep trim and force trim release. You've got a new subscriber here!
Great project and engineering, Karl! Looking forward to next version of your cyclic!
You and me both! I cant belive the intreast in this one! Thank you as always! Kind Regards, karl
Amazing as always, well done you never cease to amaze with your vids 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you and humbled! Kind Regards, Karl
Great idea, nice execution
Good morning and thank you!
Absolutely Genius! Love your Videos and Designs
Thanks! This should be a great base design for many different joysticks all adapted from the base design. Kind Regards Karl.
“How cool is this?” Answer - totally. Awesome job.
Chuckle, I think so! It's such a basic design that seems to work well. Thank you
Awesome, thanks for your time in putting the video together, really, really helpful.
Glad it was helpful! Hopefully this will be something everyone can create at home easily!
Awesome concept...sharing this with my mates.
Thank you!
Brilliant!
You are an amazing fellow. Very glad that I came across your channel.
Hi Kevin, thank you for the kind words!
Another great project! When ready this base would probably fit well for my H145 cockpit. Keep up the great work, also thanks for taking the time to film this already learned a lot by watching your videos.
Hello, ideally this would be mounted under the floor of a real sim, but i opted for floor mounted in this version as i dont want to build a sub floor just for controls right now. Space is really tight here. Glad that i can help. Kind Regards, Karl
That indeed is pretty cool!
Cheers Old bean! catch up soon at the FSweekend!
Just fantastic executed cyclic project! I was thinking about steppers for my next project as well and you have giving me a lot to think about. Can't wait to see more! Liked and subbed!👍
Hello, Big plans for this project, but i have few more i need to get out of the way first. Next update for the cyclic in a couple of weeks. The collective is already done, just the pedals to go ready for the release of helis on MSFS. Kind Regards, Karl
You are a genius Karl, never stop making these videos
Thank you, I certainly have a queue of videos lined up, so all should be good for a little while yet!
Nice to see that you were pleased with your own design. Always nice when a design works out.
Hi Daniel, I think this was a eureka moment when i relaised stepper motors could be used as mag brakes, parallel and series actuators all in one. Do not think i have seen any others go that way right now. So i think thats why i was so suprised, as i actually never thought it would truely work.
Hi Karl Great vid as ever, watched a few times any up date on this.
Great video mate, I'm looking forward to printing and building a set of controls. Keep up the good work.
I was really pleased with how these turned out. I still use them every day!
This cyclic looks promising!!! I really want to print it when it is ready.
Sure i make sure a video is released when the final version is done! Thank you!
You are a Real Genius great job
Thank you and feeling humbled!
Nice job ❤❤ nice smile on face same smile want our face when you give me 3d printed files❤❤
Thank you! Files in the webshop.
One Word Genius !!! can't wait to see the 737 finished 100% good luck 💪
Hello and thank you. The 737 doesn't really exist right now, and soon will be completely disassembled ready for a much smaller single seat 737.
@@helimech8152 wish you all the best 🙏
Insane, keep on going master.
Thank you!
Very impressive. You have all my respect. This is the coolest DIY cyclic, I could have ever imagined
Thank you! some serious thought went into this!
This is amazing! I've been trying to get my head around a good magbreak solution for home simulation. I've even started 3D-printing some components, but still it have never occured to me to use steppermotors, the driving force of the 3D-printer itself, as the solution. This is brilliant. Really looking forward to the finished results and are most probably gonna buy the model from you as soon as you release it! Thanx for your hard work put into this!
Great job!
Thank you! Cheers!
good job i wait to see the final version
Thank you, I imagine there will be a lot of revisions to go before the final version.
Just bought the two STL file packages for cyclic and collective and I guess that you will be making a set of pedals also to complete the set 🙂
At least i hope you will.
Very nice work, keep it up 🙂
Extremely cool project. I'd love to give it a try myself.. Nice one.
Hell o and thank you, Once my patreons have tested the design and MSFS releases its helicopters, i will place the design on the sebsite for download. Kind Regards, Karl
@@helimech8152 Thanks Karl. If you like helicopters you'd LOVE DCS. You really should give it a try. I'd guarantee the helicopters are far more realistic than anything MSFS will bring out.. IMHO...
Well done Karl 👍 been waiting for this following our last chat. Hope your settled back in Blighty! I’ll be building this one as and when . Craig
Thank you, it's been a fun build so far and I have already made lots of new parts. Our return to Blighty has been pretty epic so far!
I like your concept and will follow this closely.
I have build my own Generic home sim cockpit for fixed wing and helicopers.
Here I use a 3D printed extended thrustmaster warthog joystick as my current cyclic. The extension gives me enough reduce force with the standard spring to control my simulated helicopters. I am now looking into replacing the spring to get the forces you mentioned to get it even better.
Furthermore I was working on and got stuck on a projects to add force trim to this setup.
Youre prototype just gave me a new insight on how to solve this.
Youre prototype just got i
Hello and fantastic news that i manganged to give you some ideads to help create yopur own design. Afterall that was the purpose of my website and channel. To help those in the sim world and prove it dosnt cost a fortune to achieve pretty good results.
Kind Regards, Karl
Great work, although I would maybe change allot of the parts out for steel/alu/composite to save printing time and to increase longevity.
Amazing!!!
Thank you
Great work, looking forward for an STL release
Working on this project in the background, I didnt expect this mucgh intrest in the project. But it should be complete soon. Kidn regards, Karl
Hi Karl. This is fantastic! I am very excited to see the final result, and am keen to have a go at yours myself. I built a FFB cyclic system myself before I had acquired a 3d printer, using dampers, electro-magnets, compression springs, linear actuators, chunks of aluminium box section, etc, etc. It weighs a ton, and needs regular maintenance and fiddling (much like a real helicopter I guess!). I have seen some other FFB cyclic projects recently, but yours is genius, and looks neat and simply structured without large cogs and belts.
I want to rebuild my cyclic now, and had been planning to anyway for some months. Now, I think I will wait to see your finished system, though I might jump in to Fusion 360 with the inspirations you have given. I would love to show you my current cyclic controllers, but I don’t want to spam your channel.
Have to comment how excited I am for this video before I’ve even watched it !
Thanks Mark, as you can probably tell, I was so happy this sort of worked first time around. Now the idea is proven, it's time now to make it better. Kind regards, Karl
@@helimech8152 I’m an ex helicopter pilot, so I’m glad you have actual experience worth the real thing. That’s going to make a huge difference. I mostly flew Hughes 300s so no hydraulics or fancy trim, but this looks like it’s going to be fantastic. Amazing first go mate!!
Steering damper
Add two Steering dampers
the effect will be better
When you quickly change the current position of the joystick, the hydraulic damper will have a certain resistance
A device used by high-speed motorcycles to prevent the front wheel from swaying rapidly
Hello, That would probably be good for an aircraft control stick, but if you let go of a helicopter cyclic with force trim on, it will bounce until it finds equalibrum as most aircraft use linear spring feel units. The only change i have made since this video is to use stronger springs.
@@helimech8152 Air tension spring is a good choice
However, the force calculation is more troublesome.
It is convenient to increase and decrease the ordinary spring
Love it.
Thank you!
Absolutely spot on Karl! This allows proper attitude positioning for flap back…….Also no reason then (if you know how to code) connect it the AP so that the AP can properly act via the serial actuators using your steppers……then it would be spot on……looking forward to this development as I think only Brunner (and similar companies) have something like this for commercial sims at great cost. Well done…..!
Hi Mike, I was thinking about the series actuator. As you are quite right, that would be the third advantage of using a stepper. But autopilot output on MSFS is already quite tricky to read on some models, and I'm not sure how this will be when the helicopters come in on Nov 11th. Thank you for taking the time to comment, Kind Regards, Karl
@@helimech8152 Karl…..why limit this to MSFS?…..there are some very good Helo models available for P3D and both, I believe, use same type of offsets (never used MSFS) so guessing only. Also just a thought……is there any possibility that the stepper motors could overheat if the control is pushed and held there against the motor resistance without pressing the trim feel to neutralise the trim force??? Cheers!
Hi Mike, I only intend to use it with MSFS right now, but after all it's just a joystick and can be used on any platform. I was worried about stepper motor overheating, but I did actually leave it plugged in and on accidentally over the weekend. They were exceptionally hot when I realised. Still it was a good test, however, I have ordered some fans to help cool them for prolonged use.
U are so super good with 3D design and electronics. You should design the cyclic and collective for the DCS Apache. Many people will buy your finished product or STL files including me.
man that's pretty cool, but you can get all these trim functions "instant thumb plus progressive hat trim switch" trims, plus friction settings with a basic g940 ffb joystick and SimFFB freeware. and it'll get you rid off all the nasty ffb effects build in the games like machin gun etc....
Simply fantastic as always.
Are you going to make a custom yoke assembly for the Cessna?
Hello, for the cessna, not yet as I always wanted a quick setup and for myself, I always planned on using my honeycomb alpha yoke
sweet!
Thank you!
That looks just stunning, sir! Will you also be doing a collective and anti-torque pedals? Instand buy for me, once available! Magnificent!
Hello, Collective done already, just the pedals to go!
I want to build this it's just what I have been looking for. Move build videos please.
There coming hopefully, Some guys great me some great ideas on how to improve certain parts, which i want to create before the next video!
This channel never ceases to amaze me and this video has done it again
Thank Mick! Lets hope those ideas keep coming! Kind regards, Karl
Great stuff......! You need to move to the Azores.... :)
😀
Chuckle, I'm quite liking the UK right now, it makes things really easy to get hold of.
Brilliant project! Just a quick comment that it is pronounced “Prepared”. I know it is confusing with the 3… it was one of those marketing genius ideas that seemed to be great at the time, but has been nothing but confusing… (former Lead Engineer, Prepar3D)
Anxiously awaiting Rev 2 and plans. Excellent work! Can you share the Motor and Driver PNs so I can get them on order?
... any chance you've considered designing a set of pedals also, that can join your cyclic and collective design.
thats is verry nice , maby a idea for the 737 yoke ?
Hi Dennis, This was the purpose of the lkiner actuators in the 737 yoke. Instead this time i used steppers as the force is a lot lower.
When used in DCS, can the force trim release switch still be bound in sim? I'd love to build this but still be able to fly fixed wing on it using that switch for other things.
Absolutly fantastic design, by the way, THE most sycenct design of force trim cyclic I've ever seen
Hello, this system is completely independent of the sim. The force trim and all their operations are separate from the sim. It replicates the force feel of the helicopter. In a future update I will add autopilot input, but I have no idea how this would work in dcs
Needs dampers? Maybe rotary ones?
Missing integrated cup holder
Chuckle! No fluids in the cockpit!
This is a lovely build, and I shall be watching your progress with interest. Something I have missed is how do the stick's movements get detected? The 17HS19-2004S1 stepper motors used (I zoomed in) appear not to have encoders, so is the position / force applied detected by the stepper driver?
Hello Nick well spoted! I missed the postion take offs on purpose for version 1 as i didnt know if this desig waould work. Those steppers are now doing a job hey were never really designed for. A bit of lateral thinking and in all honesty I never expected it to work. V2 is now printed with Stick position transmitters included.
Kind Regards, Karl
We need plans! can't sleep at night :D
They are now out and done. Available on the website. Just this second uploaded the programming section.
I am trying to get "The feel" Does a cyclic need a small bit of tension return to centre? I've removed all springs frome warthog base fitted with cyclic extension. Cyclic is extremely loose and takes zero effort to move. Thank you very much.
Need cooling fans for the steppers?
Reckon this could get integrated into some 3d printed pedals with similar mechanics?
Will there be an option to have this also working for Digital Combat Simulator (DCS)?
Hey, what is the module of the gears? I am having quite some trouble getting usable results for the gears I want to incorporate in a design based on yours.
Do you think this would work for other Sims like DCS? I would think you'd have a fair amount of demand there for such a rig. Great job BTW, always enjoy your videos.
Hello, it should work in all sims, as there is currently no sim interface. It's just a self powered joystick operated by mobiflight software. Thank you and kind regards Karl
Anything you can connect to your PC and is able to communicate with it would do the job. So why not? Add some sensors (pots, Halls) wire them to Arduino and you are done. Plenty of the codes for the joysticks for the Arduino boards are available.
When will you do part/revision 2?
Hopefully in the next couple of weeks. I am currently trying to finish my cessna build. But the parts have already been printed for revision 2.
@@helimech8152 Excellent!
Are you planning on doing the collective? if so which will be your poison? Please say a Huey style...lol
Hello, collective already done. I modelled in on the 139. So it has no throttles. Creating a huey style would be a little more work getting the twist grips onto the new shaft.
all this building may well be, but where do you get the parts if you have no printer but if you have one one where do you download patterns to produce them
Hello, if you don't have a printer then this build is not for you. It would be cheaper to buy a printer than pay a 3rd party to produce it for you. The plans come from my website in the description. Kind regards, Karl
Are the referenced 1kg of force at the top of the stick supposed to be at full deflection, and how much pre-tension do you have on your springs in the neutral position?
Hello and thats a good technical question. the force is usually from a set point on the cyclic grip. but for sim building a tywrap arount the mid position of the grip will suffice. The 1 Kg force is from any point in the range with mag brake off. with trim engaged, the force in then icreased protptionaly to distance moved away from the datum (force feel). I hope that helps, Kind Regards, Karl.
@@helimech8152 Hey, would you mind sharing the dimensions of the springs you are using? I bought a cheap little box off amazon with a fairly great number of springs, but there isn't one single one (or even in a pair or quadruple) quite strong enough at zero deflection to even move the unconnected motors in a smooth manner, thus making the screws on the arms quite large, with 6 springs on each cyclic axis, and so far 4 on the pedals.
I wouldn't necessarily buy just by your dimensions, but before ordering some stronger (and more expensive than that 10€ box) springs I would really like to know some real world tested values for their dimensions.
Kind Regards, Julius.
@@helimech8152 Additionally, how much do you feel the steps of the stepper motor when moving the stick when force trim is released?
Does it feature force feedback?
When getting all of the CAD and STL files, does it come with a parts list and wiring diagram as well?
Head over to the GA build guides on the website. It's under the downloads menu. Kind regards karl
@@helimech8152 thank you for the response. I just found that part of the website last night.
Stepper moter give motion or position sensor?
Hello, Steppers are for a mag clutch and beep trim. The pots or Halls sensors are position reading devices.
With you back in the UK.. Possible for you to put together parts kit + 3d files for sale.
Hi, Im working on it, But with current energy prices are printers are costing a fortune and thats just running them for protoyping. I need to invest in more solar panels to help keep costs down first i think. Kind regards, Karl
Frankly, after some outburst of the designs from Authentikit (throttles, trims, WW2 stuff), this is one of the most interesting things I've seen. Even more as it clearly could be well used for aircraft. And because my DLC collection for DCS includes Mi-24 Hind ...
1. is it possible for such design to find its center spot?
2. dampers for axes? Frankly, I wonder if in modern planes and helicopters, especially those FBW types, controls when released bounce like spring loaded PC controller does?
As I am not electronic guy - when reading about proper setting nozzle distance for 3d printer, I was warned not to move base plate too quickly as I move stepper motors and they could generate charge when moved in such a way and send it back and cause damage to the controller - is it an issue? As with that leverage and not powered, you can quickly turn those motors.
Hello, I have been thinking about the centre spot for a couple of ddays now, and yes its posible, but im not sure its needed. At the moment you would move the controls to the centre using the trim release. As a heli doesnt normally have self righting controls. But i do see the advantage of this method. It would be very simple to add a microswitch for self centring regardless if it's used it or not.
As for dampers, they are fitted to some aircraft. and the steppers do act as dampers when in the off/unpowered mode as they do indeed self generate electricty. So the faster you move them, the more resistance is felt. If i was to apply hydraluics in a real aircraft and moved the cyclic away from neutral, and let go. The controls would bounce horrendously until they settled down. I have done this a few times during autopilot functionals, but you must remember that you have complete control systems, Swashplates and rotors that then move at above normally speeds and the sounds that come from the aircraft as they bounce are a little worrying!
As for EMF, i have had no problems yet as generally when you move them, you un couple the steppers via the drivers which do have opto couplers in them. That said as people test the design, valuble feedback will be gained. The parts are currently in PLA for the steppers, they absoultey must be made from ABS to withstand the stepper hold current heat.
I hope that helps answer some questions, Very intelliginat ones at that, hence the rather large reply back. Kind Regards, Karl
Hey love your vids what 3d printer do you use?
Hello! Currently its the Creality CR10 v2.
@@helimech8152 thanks
Do you by any chance plan to sell this ? Because I can see myself buying it 🥳👀
Where can I contact you?
Hello, Head over to my website and the chat window. Link in the description. Kind regards, Karl
👌 𝙥𝙧𝙤𝙢𝙤𝙨𝙢
Thank you
Brilliant..hopefully one day Soon, il be able to pay about £350 to get something like this to simply plug into my PC and fly helicopters more realistically in MSFS 🤞
Amazing!
Thank you!