I love Daeran because he tries so much to be edgy but you got Camilla and Wendaug in the same room doing some real psycho shit so he just looks like a spoiled child trying to get attention rsrs
Daeran: "I'm actually a very unpleasant person! You should dislike me." *Camellia and Wenduag look up from the person they were just drinking the blood from*: Sorry, you were saying?
Poor Daeran. Tries hard to be edgy but really just pushing people away to spare them from his oracle “mystery”. Meanwhile, he’s in a group with literally 3 cannibal waifus.
I definitely have one of the more unpopular opinions, but greybor has to be my favorite companion. For the sole reason that his character is what a dad who has never played an rpg before but his kid convinced him to try it out would make. He just sounds like a dude working a 9-5 waiting to retire so he can read historical nonfiction novels
Agreed Greybor is my favorite. Knows who he is, what he wants, and surprising relatable in my opinion. Q: Who is he? A: Hired sword. Pay the man he deserves it. Q: What does he want? A: Simple! To do his job with no judgement, and to have the freedom to decide his own future. Q: Relatable? Ya right that's crazy! A: I stand by my statement the "Beers after work" scene gets me every time (prolly my favorite in the game) and I couldn't list the amount of co-workers over the years that I just couldn't stand until there was a bonding moment of similar fashion.
What an intriguing perspective :o I've never even come close to thinking of Greybor in that way, but it has radically reshaped how I think of him as a character. Thanks!
@@yaldabaoth2Idk Regil looks at her as a grumpy grandfather. He is however scared of Nenio saying something among the lines "Stay away from me you menace to society. "
It's good how people's taste is so different regarding companions in this game. It's the best indicator on how well fleshed out and diverse they all are.
Regill is everything to me! He never leaves my party. He's the sole reason my character is a hellknight. He's my inspiration in what my character does. He's the reason my character is a devil. He's my everything! Oh yeah there's some other characters in the game too apparently.
I wish Trever had more development for himself and, by extension, Sosiel. He is clearly broken traumatised by his experiences and it would be great to help Sosiel rehabilitate him because I felt like I was dragging along a PTSD victim into more fights that he really shouldn't be in anymore. Totally agree 100% with Daeran, his quest seemed so interesting and mysterious then after the pivotal moment I was like... 'that's it'?
I haven't beaten the game yet so there very well could be more, but I reunited Sosiel with Trever and his story has been silent after that. I feel like they're missing such a great opportunity like this. They can show Sosiel doing his best to help Trever recover from his PTSD, maybe with Shelyn's help, and showing how he won't give up on him, no matter what he's been through and how much he's changed. That will really portray Sosiel in a more positive way, showing the depths of how much he cares for people and doesn't want to lose the love he's always had for his brother and how they were, before this war
17:13 Wenduag: "You have the blood of a demon in you. A powerful demon too since you're skilled in magic. You can share some of your power with me. I will get the demon seed and you'll get a good time." Woljif: "Uh... You're alright, love. Thanks, but no thanks. I'm actually celibate me. Took a vow of chastity. I'd show you my chastity belt but, well... wouldn't wanna tempt ya."
Lann is so derpy but he owns it. I can't speak for his romance arc but he's got a strong identity overall and I wouldn't mind seeing him get hooked up.
@@SlanderedGaming I saw you played it in beta but never got to do the final complete arc. And I won't get a chance soon if ever. But I did get the Act 3 side quest with his mom and it's very clear where he gets his personality genes. Funniest low-key heartwarming moment of the year... Also he feels like he's doomed but he's doing the best that he can, and that's some zoomer/millennial energy right there...
My favorite companion I think is it is selah, I love the idea that a paladin can be a funny bro person that has a ton of personality a morally grey life and still be the champion of the people
For me... Most useful character in combat: Daeran. Most Endearing Character: Ember. Character with the best romance: Wenduag. Cutest Character: Aizu. Funniest Character: Nenio. Character we love to hate: Camelia. Character with the best background: Regill. Thank you for your very exhaustive list. :)
A couple of months ago I asked you about a companion ranked video, and it did not disappoint. Fantastic video, easily the best companion video. Thanks!
I like Regill as well. I like that he is big L lawful and little E evil. He follows the hell knight code strictly as the code will allow and in the straightest shortest line possible regardless what he has to go through or who he has to kill.
At first I didn't particularly like Camellia's voice either but it's grown on me since I don't *think* she should have any hint (other than what you do sometimes get) of being some sort of psycho or malevolent force. Her sort of normal down-to-earth, almost nondescript but haughty tone is perfect for her character.
Seelah seems more romanceable than the previous icon character from Kingmaker - Amiri. However, I think that is the reason she isn't an option because fans asked about Amiri in Kingmaker and both Paizo and Owlcat pointed fingers at each other for why she wasn't an option. It could be both don't want to make icon characters romanceable, but don't want to take the blame.
I mean the face of Mass Effect (aside from Shepard) is Garrus Vakarian, you know who has a great romance? Garrus Vakarian! I don't know why owlcat things icon romances can't work
The point of Lann is, that he hides behind his humor, while in constant struggle with the fact, that he will soon die and overall is what he is: this mongrel half fiend monster, left by his mother, who after him wasn't able to even bear a single child alive anymore, his dad already dead, with a quick decay in his last years and all this doesn't really make him the confident that there would be any woman ever to see something in him. So while our artistocrat is the one who is coming for you and that pretty aggressively, Lann is the exact opposite of that.
Ember! She's just wholesome, I have a hard time not including her in every single party I run. Even when I did my Demon run, I kept her in the party throughout.
I've seen similar trends with what you said about Seelah, but in her specific case I really think it's because Owlcat doesn't allow for romancing pivotal Pathfinder characters. If you look at Kingmaker, the Barbarian Amri was a pivotal character from the tabletop books. She wasn't a romance option. It's the same with Seelah, she's from the tabletop game as well.
Spoiler for Nenio's quest: The moment she won my heart was when after beating her dungeon, she said my (the commandar's) name, and then later on, when you bring it up, she gives a cheeky reply of "not remembering it". Such a shame we couldn't romance her.
Your content is amazing bro, absolutely love this video. Any time I'm starting to feel burnt out I just need to tune into your channel and I'm pumped to boot WotR up and get my adventure on :D Thank you!
Daeran has to be one of the best healers ever made in gaming. A spoiled rich weirdo who, quite literally, became a healer cause his parties were so crazy that people were getting hurt. Come on, it cannot get better than that.
What you talking about? Camellia has the best voice actor of the bunch. Her battle cries and ambient dialogue are meme gold. She plays the spoiled, snobby rich girl so well that if you're not paying attention to what's going on around her, it's very easy to write her off and not notice the intentional ambiguity in her line delivery. And then when the Big Twist comes, she's positively chilling.
"If you corrupt Arueshalae you can't romance her that's wack" No, it isn't. Because then she's not romantic at all. She's reverted to a succubus. You'd be more likely to be able to romance Regill than a corrupted Arueshalae, fullstop. Corrupting her kills that side of her. Period. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Nenio would be more romantic than a corrupted Arue (hint: Nenio isn't romantic at all, it's something she would instantly forget as totally unimportant). Arue will do with you what she does - sex at every opportunity. But it's unromantic. It highlights that this kind of "making love" ultimately isn't. Just go to the Ten Thousand Delights and see if any of them are any different. If she *was* romancable as a corrupted succubus it would make everything that is revealed earlier an utter lie. Sorry you don't like this fact but it is what it is, your character will just have to enjoy the rather empty physicality and leave it at that lol.
P.S. you do get the same thing with Arueshalae as those other couples. Lots of sex and her banter about that. You don't get warm cuddles but those other relationships aren't about that, either.
I suppose to replicate those demonic relationships you use as your example, Arueshalae could try to kill the main character several times, but I don't think this would be very enjoyable content since none of the companions is any kind of challenge for the main character. Or she could try to kill you in your sleep but then that would cause other problems.
In the Ten Thousand Delights, Morevet Honeyed Tongue has a completely different relationship with the Vavakia than you can have with Arue. Same with Chivvaro and Minagho. There is no lore reason we cannot have a similar chaotic relationship with Arue.
@@SlanderedGaming I replied to my own comment on that - Morevet's relationship and Chavvaro's relationship involve _periodically trying to kill each other_ but that would be boring in the context of the game since no companion is any challenge at all and if it was a challenge it wouldn't be an enjoyable one. I suppose Arue could kill the main character in his sleep and you would have your 'relationship' These relationships you rationalize as the reason why you should have one are *nothing like a romance*
My personal take on the companions: - Camellia: Original personality, albeit extremely demented. - Regill: Pure comedy this one :) - Ember: Almost generic, but she has a lot of redeeming qualities. - Sosiel: He felt boring to me. - Woljif: Excellent voice acting, but too generic companion overall. Almost everything about him was cliche. - Seelah: Excellent implementation of otherwise boring hero architype. Adds flavour to the cliche paladin. - Lann: Intersting story about struggle with destiny. - Wenduag: Generic powerhungry fool. - Daeran: You will either hate him or love him. - Nenio: Wierd and funny. I liked her a lot :) - Greybor: Interesting dichotomy between pragmatism and practicality. I liked him a lot. - Arueshalae: Extremely original character. Fall from grace from Planescape Torment was the only character close to Arue that I have seen. And I have played a lot of cRPG-s. I liked her a lot :)
agreed with most of them, though found seelah so damn boring, plus some of her dialogue breaks immersion( you go sister) with modern takes in a fantasy setting off putting. plus she is just a party filler till galfrey.
Ember is actually older than most of the members of your party. She played with Woljif when he was a child (he grew up and threw rocks at her and laughed). For an elf she's a "child" but she's a lot older than she looks. Love your takes on the characters, though.
The only reason Seelah is unavailable as a romantic partner is her iconic status to Pathfinder universe and Paizo in general. The same was for Amiri in Kingmaker. Shame though.😍
I don’t really understand what is wrong with romancing “iconic”. They’re not actual world level lore characters like Sorshen or something. They’re artwork and a weird set of stats in various APs and novels I think. so it’s not even like they have 1 story that is congruent. And Seelah is about as lax a Paladin imaginable. Like romancing Queen Galfrey is more lore significant than Seelah.
I don't understand the reasoning behind this choice. Just because she is iconic doesn't mean she shouldn't be romanceable. If I can kill her why can't I marry her? LOL
@@SlanderedGaming I think Paizo wants to keep all control over their characters. Although, this is kinda not true too since Galfrey is romanceable for exemple.
You are right about Soseil's quest ending. The fact that you need to make such specific dialogue choices so far ahead of when the outcome takes place, and that its so unintuitive, is really annoying. I dont really see why picking the most optimistic choices about his brother, particularly in light of the 2 people you speak 2 at the lost chapel singing his praises, would prevent the option to recruit Trever.
Sosiel becomes very very strong due to his access to domains. Every mythic rank you go for impossible domains =) A tip is to get animal domain and get a dog or whatever animal you want early, awesome!
That definitely does make him stronger. My issue with it is from a roleplaying standpoint Sosiel wouldn't worship anyone outside of Shelyn. Therefore taking another deities domains feels wrong to me.
@@SlanderedGaming nice, thanks! I just love his personality. He’s a blast in whenever he chimes in lol. I built him as Eldritch Scoundrel + Arcane Trickster and I find his kit SUPER fun. Invisible impromptu sneak attack Hell Rays are entertaining to do.
Camellia is my favorite character. She’s a fantastic front line fighter as a spirit hunter or as a rogue/slayer/fighter type and she really makes a perfect dpr character. Honestly I love taking her through about level 12 or so as a master of all rogue to make her a skill monkey dpr, and then swap her back to shaman wants she gets level 6 spells where her spell list isn’t garbage anymore. Romance is dogshit but fun. Her voice actor is a little off but I think it’s intentional.
Some classes allow you to pick an animal companion. It does not take up a slot so you can still have five party members. Kingmaker also has classes like this such as Mad Dog under Barbarian.
Camellia is one of my favourite characters personality wise and mechanically. Great tank, dps and decent support caster/healer (particularly as a trickster with completely normal spell and the improved crit line). Her personality being unchanging is fine imo. She is a psychopath, and a redemption arc wouldnt fit at all (she was clearly born with her killer impulses from conversations with her). I think her voice is a good fit to be honest, superficially sweet and cool (with the only real emotion showing with lines like "the world in crimson") is in keeping with psychopath maintaining a façade.
Mechanically speaking it's not much of a façade, anyone paying attention will figure her out pretty quickly. An amulet that disguises her alignment? Well, good or neutral characters wouldn't need one, and the game has LE and NE characters in the party without hiding it, so it becomes obvious Camellia is chaotic evil by simple process of elimination. Then there's her combat barks, which confirm she's more than a little unhinged and enjoying herself too much.
What are you doing to make her a DPS? Or a Tank for that matter? Rapier is pretty awful for damage compared to 2handed melee and bows, and since the Antagonize Feat isn't implemented in this game the only thing stopping enemies from walking past high AC party members is AoO damage (and as I said, rapiers ain't doing much). I've got Piranha Strike and Mythic Weapon Finesse on her, but even with her Spirit Enchantment she can't really compete for damage.
@@HouseLyrander Elemental barrage, crit feats (particularly if trickster) and outflank, combat reflexes and ever ready. Base weapon damage is not particularly important. As for tanking, depending on spirits, you can get personal buffs like sea mantle, frightful aspect and obviously using a shield she can benefit from magic vestment twice. As a practical matter, enemies dont ignore high AC members until they have missed them for several rounds in most cases, and she can get her AC high enough to be a respectable tank on core difficulty, overtaking Seelah for AC late game. Mythic weapon finesse is a waste of a mythic feat and comes alot later than level 5 when you can grab fencing grace, and dont use piranha strike. Its far more important to hit (ele barrage alone is 15d6 divine damage on average per hit at mythic rank 10), than to do a bit more damage per hit, particularly with a very large threat range and the AoOs this generates, so long as you are actually hitting and confirming. Spirit weapon without ele barrage is anaemic in this game due to how prevalent elemental resists are even from chapter 1.
@@notalefty999 I'm gonna have to disagree with you on enemies ignoring high AC characters because in my experience, who enemies target is completely random. It's not weird for me to see an enemy charge right past my frontline towards the casters in the first round of combat and get beheaded by Seelah for their troubles, nor is it weird to see them relentlessly miss Woljif and never learn. Not saying high AC isn't nice to have, just that it's not really a full on role in this game. The damage build as you described it doesn't sound like it comes online until at least midgame either, and by then I have plenty of other characters who can kill an enemy in 1 turn (or multiple enemies if they're an archer). Does using a weapon with multiple elemental types (either natively or by adding more with Spirit Weapon) allow you to trigger Elemental Barrage in a single Full Attack? Because if not, I don't see it being worthwhile outside of really high difficulties with very inflated HP pools because taking a turn to mark an enemy, then switching elements with Spirit Weapon to damage them next turn sounds like a bad strategy.
My first actual laugh out loud moment came when Daeran is given the “honor” of not being able to flee the crusade. I’m in act 3 on my first play through, but that alone has me loving the queen as a character already. That was some A++ passive aggressive behavior.
There’s a lot of missed opportunities with Regill for sure. Why the Hellknight prestige class isn’t locked behind something involving him, and maybe even the arminger fighter archetype doesn’t actually involve the Hellknights at all, is disappointing. Also when Mepho shows up to participate in the crusade, you’d really think there would be some kind of interactions there. Nope. Both completely ignore each other, sitting 5 feet apart in the command room.
Hmm, maybe it was added later to the game and you didn’t saw that, but my character as a hellknight had a conversation option mentioning that MC is hellknight too, and you get an answer that you are on the council, but we do not grant you the rank of master, err, you are not officially accepted by hellknights and then you could do a little quest to gain official rank and your own set of hellknight armor.
Seelah like Amiri is an iconic character, which basically means she is based on source material, not an invention of Owlcat, so I think this limits what they are allowed to do with her character arc pretty significantly. Amiri was also unromanceable. As an aside, I am pretty sure Mazzy wasnt black, she is blue eyed, much paler skin than Valygar, and all the women in BG2 other than Viconia had braids, but if you just look at her hair, its not afro texture. Also, I am not sure if drow count, but Viconia was literally black and a romanceable option. Granted, her features were more typical of a white woman (I think she was based on an actual photo of a model).
@29:00 Actually, Daeran can take an animal companion as well as long as you take an additional Mystery: Nature with your Mythic ability for him. That opens up the revelation for an animal companion ("Bonded Mount"). At 7th level, I was able to take a Wolf since it becomes large at that time. It levels up all the way to Daeran's level. Great video, you're an insightful reviewer. Cheers
I thought the same about Woljif! The only reason for me to play female main characters is to check out the romances, to learn more about the party members I like. Woljif should, at the very least, be romanceable by female tieflings (he does show interest for that tiefling mentioned in his first companion quest), in the same vein that there are some race specific romances in dragon age for example.
Woljif should have been romanceable by male tieflings as well. He calls male tieflings "dreamboat", there's bonus dialogue with corrupt Arue where he asks if she can turn into a guy (with oddly specific details), and don't get me started on his dynamic with Daeran. Actually, given his apparent preferences in his dialogue with Arue, he should have been romanceable by aasimars as well. Oh screw it, he should have been romancable by everyone.
@@HouseLyrander Oh, english not being my native language, I (apparently) mistook dreamboat for someone being aloof or not paying attention, not as some sort of flirting. I never corrupted Arue, so that's good to know, and well, I don't remember enough of his banter with Daeran. You're right though, I don't know what the writers from Owlcat were thinking.
@@_Chantelle I know of it! I heard nothing but good stuff about it, I have it installed and everything. The moment I stop feeling the burnout of some 6+ playthroughs I'll give it a try (most likely, once the enhanced edition goes live)
I keep hearing that Wenduag is written well but her actions don't make sense near the end of her questline given her thirst for power and what she has witnessed you accomplish. It really irks me since I like her a lot as a character.
Well, in all fairness, Wendy is stupid. I mean, she is literally a stupid person, just ignore her average INT stat and think of her as having a WIS and INT of around 5. A lot of her lines demonstrate how stupid she is, like when she complains about you saving your army from the vescavor swarm and you have to explain that you kinda need an army if you're going to conquer Drezen.
That end part is kind of what I was talking about regarding the cons of her character. Owlcat didn't go all the way with making her a cruel power hungry person and I feel like it weakened her content.
In Germany we says, Kuss auf die Nuss. In english it will be worked too xD Your channel (and you) is absolutly Amazing. So lovely telling how this world works, so incredible exploration of every single spell. Holy cow its perfect! Thank you!
Agree on the ending of Daeran’s questline, but disagree on his personality never changing. I feel like that’s slightly locked behind his romance though, similar to Wenduag, and his is much more subtle. My favorite character has got to be Ember. She just adds so much to the game, giving everything and everyone around her a depth you wouldn’t see if she wasn’t in your party. It’s like rolling with a mini Aeon/GD. Least fave is Cam lol. If she’s a foil to Wenduag, I find Wendu to be leagues more compelling of a character. Also, I get that Owlcat wanted to give us hints as to Cam’s personality, but it felt more like I was being beat over the head with it. I just wish there was a little more...mystery.
@@SlanderedGaming Have you seen the ending slide where the commander sacrifices himself? Daeran gives up all his belongings to wander the world and heal the needing. In certain endings he also takes a role as a bigger brother to Woljif
I almost always bring Seelah. Pallies are always useful, especially when fighting demons. Give her that immune to fire cape and she can stand and fight forever. Lann is super useful. You get him early and can customize him, and unlike Wenduag, he's not a traitorous monster. But if you bring Wendy instead, she's a Lann swap. However, Wendy is much more interesting as a character, and has great lines in the game. I love her "crit" and "kill" proclamations. She's evil and traitorous and very stupid, but she is well written. Woljiff disappears and I never see him again afterwards. Maybe because it's so easy to not ever see him again is why he's not romancable. Sosiel annoys me, as does Daeran. I prefer Daeran over Sosiel, but I tend to just make a healbot. As a healer Daeran is better than Sosiel. Greybor is bland, but he unlocks Hedge Knights, one of the two actually good offense units for the crusade. Ember and Nenio annoy me to no end, though both are quite useful, Ember is especially a wrecking machine. Regill is a boss. He has great character, perhaps the best VA, great lines. He's set up as a DPS build, but you get him early enough to make him a tank instead. But his companion story is basically non-existent, and he never changes or grows. Aru actually annoys me. Sometimes she has these great mature person lines, and other times she's just a super cringe zoomer demanding affirmation. However, Aru, the Hand of the Inheritor, and the MC are three characters that embody a main theme of the game: the theme of changing one's essence, the idea of can a person change the soul of who they are by changing their entire perspective and value systems. This is why I tend to like her; I see has as a central figure in the largest theme of the main story. Like you said, she's a latecomer and you already have at least one archer (Lann/Wendy and maybe the MC). I don't mention the romances because I find romances in CRPGs to be, well, absolutely terrible.
@@yomogami4561 I had to play 2 hours or so in Act 3 before I got Woljif back. Most of that time was spent running around with my armies on the map and defeating demon armies. I'm sure, if you know what to do, you can get him back fairly soon after starting Act 3.
Overall what I can definitely say is that in WotR, compared to kingmaker, most of the companions are at least reasonably stated so even on hard(what I am playing on) you can rely on them doing their job and not having to rely on mercs to fill in the gap. Plus they really put more emphasis on them having dialogue during the main story, so that's another big plus. Whereas in Kingmaker I had to struggle to find 5 official companions to pull me through hard, here I feel like I am spoiled for choices and get to change my team up every mission. Plus the characters are so much more interesting to boot. The only complain I have is that for some reason Owlcat has 3 different characters be dual wielding by default and if you try to spec into anything else they have a bunch of feats that are wasted I really hope in the next game they give each character a unique skill/feat/mythic feat(if they keep that system) so there is an actual reason for you to use these characters other than story, so far I haven't had anything game changing (I mean Arue has really high stat spread since she's a demon, but that isn't particularly exciting)
My favorites were Seehla, Lann, Woljiff and Sosiel (liked both quests and mechanics). Honorable mentions to Daeran and Nenio who made me laugh quite a bit. Ember is quite usefull with her hexes in combat. My least favorites were Camellia (I had to kill her), Wenduag (so stupid) and Regill (quite annoying).
*Spoilers* Your first Demon Lord fight is against Baphomet. She notes that he has the physiology of a goat while his demonic children are all bulls(cows). She then asks if he is mating with a cow whose genes are more powerful than his own. YIKES.
Definitely love my Baby Sosiel, i romance him EVERY time I make a male character 😂. I enjoy his quest line and his character as a whole. But my close second is Daeran, He never could fool me with his attitude, I knew he was soft and kind deep down and the few moments he show some vulnerability (especially at the lost chapel) I just can’t help but melt.
It’s not so much that Daeran doesn’t have a character arch, as that it’s mostly hidden behind his romance. His true love path to be precise. It kind of makes sense considering it would be that rare circumstance where he would allow someone to get close enough to make an impact. The problem, as you pointed out, is his final quest that probably got rushed in the end, like many other things…It had this incredible build up through out the game just to fall completely flat in the last chapter. Regill is my second favorite. Followed closely by Ember and Woljif. I like Camellia’s story but I absolutely hate her spoiled princess attitude. Her constant whining and nagging is the reason why she’s never in my party.
From a purely mechanical standpoint, Sosiel can be a beast after some mythic impossible domains. I thought he was a throwaway companion initially, but once I started messing around, he's the only healer/buffer I need.
I like to choose my party at random whenever I leave a settlement. Every time Nenio or Daeran don't get the roll of the dice I have to resist the urge to kick someone out and take them anyways.
I like to give Camelia some levels in Duelist, and give her Int headbands, and leave her spellcasting lower, since, like you said, she doesn't have a lot of spellcasting potential. My experience with that is that she makes a fantastic Duelist as a front-line damage dealer. She might be better as melee damage than Woljif to be honest
Haven't picked the game up since just after getting Regill. But I like him already. He reminds me of Harrim in how persuasively he draws you into his way of thinking from his backstory (or at least your attempt to get one out of Regill) while the game's alignment compass wants you to think he's just plain twisted. "Especially when you figure out more of what's going on with her but other team members still haven't caught on." I trust my allies and will not be casting alignment attack spells on them; Camelia's secret's safe with me! Nenio? I'll admit I haven't tired yet at how many different original ways she has of saying, "This is irrelevant." So much for having her break tie votes. I'm afraid Nenio's jarring initial put down of Daeran's age killed any respect I might have of him (never mind how often she calls the main the same thing). I really like Seelah. She fills the iconic Pathfinder character shoes much better than Amiri did. "These grey characters that are... all right with you if you do good things..." Oh, no, Woljif's a Karen. Just play true to Lawful Good.
YES, i was crushed on my demon playthrough when Arushalae doesnt really have an evil romance, but at least my character was able to become nocticula consort lol
Regill or greybor are both my favourites, I can easily understand why people dont like greybor though, Considering the sort of transformation he goes through in the last two acts.
Seelah and Camellia are irreplaceable for me. I always have them. Ember’s spell list is limited but has a lot of really decent spells on her. Daeran is much better healer and I don’t mind anything about his build. Usually that gives me about 1 position to play with but it’s basically gonna go to an archer type. Aru or Wendy like always. Lamb if I have to
I don't know if this is the reason WHY Seelah is not romanceable. But in the Pathfinder Comics, Seelah is in a committed relationship with the female Cleric of Saranrae, her name slips my mind, Kemintiri or something. I totally get why they don't actually reference it. Their relationship is very similar to Irabeth and Anevia's.
From mechanics, Arue, Daeran, Wenduag/Lann and Ember are the best for me. Personality wise Daeran, Nenio and Regill are great. Regill giving Sosiel the 3rd degree every turn was brutal.
I think that not being able to romance arueshalae if you corrupt her is kinda the point of her entire character arc, I understand the frustration and the desire to try a different kind of romance but I think that it's better the way it is now
My party selection is usually along the lines of Seelah/Camilla, Wenduag/Arueshalae, Ember/Daeran/Lann (Zen Archer 3/Crusader Cleric rest), Greybor/Regill. Which one I bring depends on the class I play myself and alignment. Ember and Daeran can be either healer oriented or extreme blaster. I never take Sosiel or Woljif (or Trevor lmao), though, I just can't make them work on Core and above. The new guy Ulbrig is extremely strong and probably replaces Greybor/Regill unless I make Wenduag a Child of the Manticore Shifter. Edit: Completely forgot about Nenio, I hate her quest, so I don't take her.
Lann surprised me with how much I liked him as I only remebered him being a minor npc in the module. He has a good sense of humor, an interesting outlook on life (wanted to do the right thing but could be just as pragmatic as Regill), and you sympathized with his goal (wanted to do good for his people with what little time he had left). He was definitely my first romance option. Daeran spoiled brat attitude could get grating (I'll give the VA credit for making him sound like the stereotypical rich teen) but he could be funny (especially with Nenio and Wolgif) and the vulnerability he shows when you romance him is really touching. Seelah, I will admit was a surprise, especially since I read her bio for PF iconics. I definitely enjoyed her character. Kudos to the VA as ell Regill, maybe because Hellknight is one of my favorite PCs in general, but I was already bias to this little gnome when he was first announced. I've always enjoyed pragmatic characters if done right. Wolgif...might be in the minority but he was an eeeeh...for me. As with earlier, he can have funny dialogue but the constant need to seem like he had it the hardest and incapable of thinking anyone from any background could have problems (Camilla having an abusive mother? Doesn't matter because she was rich!). Really bugged me. This especially bugged me when. Spoiler alert: One ending has it so he can be born human, have a normal life, and still grows up into a thief. So the whole "I've had it so hard because I'm a tiefling" thing really looses it lustsr. Aru: Love her, glad the game didn't disappoint with her. Enough said. Sosiel: A bit boring yes, but I gave him points for managing to tell Wolgif to shut up in what I call the neutral good wau 😄 Nenio: Currently running WoTR and was running it before the game came out. Literally had an NPC similar to her. Her name was Neela, a tiefling magus who wanted to document the Worldwound and enjoyed samples from different kinds of demons. One of my players and I laughed at the similarities.
*spoilers* Was Camellia's mother abusive? I thought she just realized her child was a psychopath and tried to kill her. I don't think she was abusive to Camellia in any way before that.
Ember is my favorite by far. I don't know how many times she has said exactly what I was thinking. I also really like Nenio, whom I find hilarious (I realize that a lot of people find her annoying though).
I considered Trevor a more hidden character and therefore left him off a non-spoiler ranking. Plus I don't have any playthroughs where I successfully unlocked him. LOL
@@Nikioko LOL This is a fact but he requires an extremely specific set of dialogues to unlock. I have finished four Mythic Paths and still do not have him.
Greybor certainly isnt a tank, but is comfortably the easiest character to build and play for very high damage. You can more mileage out of other NPCs, but generally you will need to either micromanage them more, or be inventive with your build. Regarding his squishiness, sending in a tank first and using enlarge person/legendary proportions to boost his reach actually works pretty well at stopping enemies from targeting him.
daeran is literally the only staple i keep, if hes not healing hes buffing. he also isn't pissy about any choices i make like nenio. so i rank him 1 aru is a close second because of her skill coverage and tireless story.
Personally I found both of them to be very satisfying. I would say romancing Wenduag reveals more layers about her whereas Aru is pretty much what you see from the very beginning.
A big problem i have with Nenio are her opposition school. Necromancy i can go without but is a shame to lose but not being able to cast Abjuration spells like stoneskin and most importantly Dispell magic really cripples her use for me and downgrades her to just a damage caster.
The thing about Seelah: the reason why she can't be romanced is that she is a 'Paizo original' character, so they can't really write a story that conflicts with her official lore (was the same with Amiri in Kingmaker).
My ranking is pretty close. 1. Nenio 100% she is a mix of my adhd brain and scientific out look. Hilarious at every moment and incredibly powerful. I love how the story can be in the middle of the most serious moments and she just says something left field making me laugh. Also if you never seen it you should talk to her while she’s in the nexus and wants to do the experiment on how to be a better friend. 2. Camilla I like the idea of crazy that you can’t change because it throws in the air the trope of the female romance you can “fix”. Her quest feels less about her arc and more about yours. What is your characters limit what will they accept for live or power. She also makes a good evil cleric or summoner if you don’t like Melee. Camilla’s voice fits for me for one reason, I think she’s a sociopath she doesn’t have any true emotions like most other people have. She sorta fakes how she’s meant to feel and talk while only ever feeling anything when she kills and even then that’s fleeting and never fulfills her. 3. Seelah ok romance. I get your con but it was never gonna happen. Just like kingmaker romance with the iconic hero’s was a hard no from Pazio and a requirement for them to even have the right to make a pathfinder game. what sucks is with all the backstory they come with they generally come off as top of the line party members. Also love paladins that aren’t the lawful stupid trope. She would of made a good romance 4. Ember. She’s an adult but I get where your coming from it’s hard to not see her as a child the way she looks and acts. I love the whole way she talks. Saying what she thinks and feels regardless if it’s to a farmer or a demon lord. She sums up the idea of an atheist in a world where the gods can come down for a visit. 5. Arue. Ya she’s a trope and her story kinda was dictated by the pen and paper adventure but I just love everything about it. Romance I didn’t care about the evil issue I am way to much a lore junkie and I feel as die hard as their base is they would of had issues if they had broken lore even if it was a good reason. 6/7 Wendy and lann are tied. They both make me have to think hard decide who I want. There versatility is the main draw for me (Btw lann makes a great primal Druid if you want another pet). I would say Wendy’s story quest is better but I wonder if lanns was on purpose. Like his romance and quest is so bland and normal cause that’s what he wants in life. Remember his dream is mostly to go on a boat so it makes some sense he doesn’t have some grand aspirations or epic quest. The rest I barely use. I never liked regills class or attitude but maybe when o go devil and make him a full part of the team I’ll change my mind. Greybors good but just struck me as cookie cutter assassin doing it for the money. Never felt he grew out of that and his quest was the same. Wish we had delved more into his backstory in his quest rather then his future job prospects. The brothers. I have a guide to get both for the angel I’m playing now so it may change my mind but both seem just boring. Worse part is clerics are important and it makes me glad that Camilla, ember, or Daren can easily fill the gap so you aren’t forced like kingmaker. I never use Daren no reason why just haven’t gotten around to it. Also major mistake in not giving the undead more to say. Watching your play thru i see so many areas I wish they just had more to say feels like a missed opportunity to make the lich even more epic than it already is. I don’t say much about power because most anyone can be molded into something op even for unfair and personally I hate the “everyone’s level 1 when you find them” trope. The idea that they have some training or expertise in life and you can’t change that makes them so much more real to me.
I definitely agree with your last point. I don't need all of them to be level 1 I just hate being level 9 before I reach them. As much as I complain about Sosiel the level we get him is alright. Greybor and Arue though are another story.
@@SlanderedGaming Core Rulebook p. 61. 😉 No, the campaign was Curse of the Crimson Throne from 2008. Wrath of the Righteous is from 2013. But according to „Meet the Iconics“: Seelah debuts as a pregenerated character in volume 7 of Pathfinder and in GameMastery Module W2: River Into Darkness.
This is just my opinion, but my favorite waifu is Aru, ember is my adopted daughter unless I'm swarm, Nenio is my favourite kook, and Regil is the straight man to hold it all together.
It's not so much about what you do moment to moment as it is about where you sit in the alignment. Some classes or mythic paths require you to be at a specific alignment to get more levels or gain mythic quests. That might sound complicated but in practice it's very easy to figure out.
Mechanically Ember is fine, but her character, whilst potentially interesting, is pretty unbelievable. She both has mysterious insights about individuals, which would presumably require her to be wise, and a manifestly false belief in the inherent goodness of everyone, even including bloodthirsty demons who have chaos and evil woven into their being, and are formed from the souls of extremely evil people. The fact that she sets Nocticula, a creature many thousands of years old, on the path to redemption after 2 brief encounters is totally implausible, and the final quest where she is converting demons to the crusade who have literally only just met her, without any suggestion that compulsion magic was involved, is beyond ridiculous. I mean, Arueshalae's ascension is a long drawn out process started by literal divine intervention, and Ember is turning demons into righteous crusaders instantly by making self evidently false declarations about inherently good they are.
So far my most usefull early lvls been Wendaug with Vital strike. Nenio about to be very usefull with fighting Gargoyles which killed me first time..(but am about to hit 8 and try obsidian flow and confusion with skelle spam n haste)
The biggest letdown for me is that you can't romance Seelah. You can romance all the psychos in the game, no problem. But the one character that is actually well adjusted and wholesome? Nuh uh.
I have to be honest, I found Daeran to be snarky in a way which was conceited rather than amusing. Agree on the quest though, really interesting premises, chapter 2 was great, and then almost nothing until chapter 5 when it has a very rushed and unsatisfying ending. Mechanically, he is a very capable healer, but pretty one dimensional.
Seelah nr1: best options to build her in the way you want/need for your party Camelliah nr2: hot, best buffbot in the game (sadly hard to build her any different) Wenduag nr3: fully customizable Ranged class (can be anything as long as its ranged physical) awful personality tho Ember nr4: THE caster DPS you were looking for, great character, great builds (CC Witch or DPS arcane trickster) Daeran nr5: THE healbot, cool personality (tastes can differ obvious), great story, best healer in the game with options to deal dmg thx to his amazing stats Nenio nr6: amazing CC mage (1 lvl dip into crossblooded for the ultimate Enchanter) disgustingly annoying character, cool quest Arushalae nr7: Best girl, awful class, no options to differ builds Woljif nr8: Amazing class and build options, annoying character, boring quest, absent during worst time possible Sosiel nr9: a very very bad cleric with a cool quest Regill nr10: funny dude, unlikeable, stereotypical, strong melee dps Lann nr11: boring character, boring class, boring quest, some "funny" jokes Greybor nr12 PS: demon is very unappealing exactly becoz this shit XD theres only downsides
You can build Camellia in a billion ways. You can go sylvan trickster, you can go rowdy with elven curved blade. You can stay shaman you can do inquisitor you can do angel fire apostate cleric you can do freebooter... Just to name a few
@@zyfryth yes you could make her a sorc with her 13 charisma you could make her a rogue so you have 2 of them you can also do cleric or inquisitor with her 16 whisdom, but overall those are bad builds for high difficulty. Its quite obvious you can do anything with everyone, im talking about good builds tho
@@Narklas_unavailable Angel-fire apostate Camellia is unfair-viable, believe it or not :) And the idea behind sylvan trickster Camellia is that you have melee prowess if needed, but can also stand behind and support with protective luck / cackle if the sitaution demands it. You can also use the finesse training of dueling swords and dip some aldori defender. Also even if you stay at Shaman you have different ways to approach it.
This video has been updated with a ranking that goes through all 23 potential party members in the game: ruclips.net/video/FLDhhlSSKFM/видео.html
I love Daeran because he tries so much to be edgy but you got Camilla and Wendaug in the same room doing some real psycho shit so he just looks like a spoiled child trying to get attention rsrs
LOL That's a good point.
Daeran: "I'm actually a very unpleasant person! You should dislike me."
*Camellia and Wenduag look up from the person they were just drinking the blood from*: Sorry, you were saying?
Poor Daeran.
Tries hard to be edgy but really just pushing people away to spare them from his oracle “mystery”.
Meanwhile, he’s in a group with literally 3 cannibal waifus.
Daeran: “It’s not a phase, mom”
I definitely have one of the more unpopular opinions, but greybor has to be my favorite companion. For the sole reason that his character is what a dad who has never played an rpg before but his kid convinced him to try it out would make. He just sounds like a dude working a 9-5 waiting to retire so he can read historical nonfiction novels
LOL I 100% agree with them. His voice acting fits it perfectly.
has good banter with ember, hinting at his past.
I love him as well. His sneak attacks are so powerful. He makes short work of anything and attacks so many times
Agreed Greybor is my favorite. Knows who he is, what he wants, and surprising relatable in my opinion. Q: Who is he? A: Hired sword. Pay the man he deserves it. Q: What does he want? A: Simple! To do his job with no judgement, and to have the freedom to decide his own future. Q: Relatable? Ya right that's crazy! A: I stand by my statement the "Beers after work" scene gets me every time (prolly my favorite in the game) and I couldn't list the amount of co-workers over the years that I just couldn't stand until there was a bonding moment of similar fashion.
What an intriguing perspective :o I've never even come close to thinking of Greybor in that way, but it has radically reshaped how I think of him as a character. Thanks!
Dude!! Ember's random "We can only rely on ourselves the God's have abandoned us ... what was I saying again? Let's play" chills me every time.
Yeah great stuff.
Even at my most evil playthrough, I just can't be mean to Ember. It's like kicking a puppy.
@@JohnnyOrc seriously. She's just too good to harm... Unless you play swarm and uhh... you know
@@JohnnyOrc That's EXACTLY what an evil char would do, though.
@@yaldabaoth2Idk Regil looks at her as a grumpy grandfather. He is however scared of Nenio saying something among the lines "Stay away from me you menace to society. "
It's good how people's taste is so different regarding companions in this game. It's the best indicator on how well fleshed out and diverse they all are.
I 100% agree. It's fascinating how much people's perspectives vary on the characters.
Regill is everything to me! He never leaves my party. He's the sole reason my character is a hellknight. He's my inspiration in what my character does. He's the reason my character is a devil. He's my everything!
Oh yeah there's some other characters in the game too apparently.
lol
😂
Close ranks! :D
@@zyfryth Defeat is not an option!
@@yochaiwyss3843 Close Ranks!
I wish Trever had more development for himself and, by extension, Sosiel. He is clearly broken traumatised by his experiences and it would be great to help Sosiel rehabilitate him because I felt like I was dragging along a PTSD victim into more fights that he really shouldn't be in anymore.
Totally agree 100% with Daeran, his quest seemed so interesting and mysterious then after the pivotal moment I was like... 'that's it'?
Yeah I am looking forward to learning more about Trever.
I haven't beaten the game yet so there very well could be more, but I reunited Sosiel with Trever and his story has been silent after that. I feel like they're missing such a great opportunity like this. They can show Sosiel doing his best to help Trever recover from his PTSD, maybe with Shelyn's help, and showing how he won't give up on him, no matter what he's been through and how much he's changed. That will really portray Sosiel in a more positive way, showing the depths of how much he cares for people and doesn't want to lose the love he's always had for his brother and how they were, before this war
17:13
Wenduag: "You have the blood of a demon in you. A powerful demon too since you're skilled in magic. You can share some of your power with me. I will get the demon seed and you'll get a good time."
Woljif: "Uh... You're alright, love. Thanks, but no thanks. I'm actually celibate me. Took a vow of chastity. I'd show you my chastity belt but, well... wouldn't wanna tempt ya."
He's only celibate when it comes to Wenduag. 😂😂😂
Lann is so derpy but he owns it. I can't speak for his romance arc but he's got a strong identity overall and I wouldn't mind seeing him get hooked up.
Yeah I am looking forward to getting around to his romance.
@@SlanderedGaming I saw you played it in beta but never got to do the final complete arc. And I won't get a chance soon if ever. But I did get the Act 3 side quest with his mom and it's very clear where he gets his personality genes. Funniest low-key heartwarming moment of the year...
Also he feels like he's doomed but he's doing the best that he can, and that's some zoomer/millennial energy right there...
My favorite companion I think is it is selah, I love the idea that a paladin can be a funny bro person that has a ton of personality a morally grey life and still be the champion of the people
Yeah she is awesome.
Yeah, Seelah is much more interesting than the Aribeth de Tylmarande type of paladin, that's for sure.
For me...
Most useful character in combat: Daeran.
Most Endearing Character: Ember.
Character with the best romance: Wenduag.
Cutest Character: Aizu.
Funniest Character: Nenio.
Character we love to hate: Camelia.
Character with the best background: Regill.
Thank you for your very exhaustive list. :)
My pleasure! Glad you enjoyed the video.
A couple of months ago I asked you about a companion ranked video, and it did not disappoint.
Fantastic video, easily the best companion video.
Thanks!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
Wenduag was probably surpassed my expectations the most of all the NPCs. Her character was significantly more interesting than anticipated.
She caused me to drop my Arueshalae romance. I was not prepared 😼🕷️
Greybor, Regil, and Lan have so many good conversations. They act like a small unit or family when they are together.
Yup they see eye to eye.
I like Regill as well. I like that he is big L lawful and little E evil. He follows the hell knight code strictly as the code will allow and in the straightest shortest line possible regardless what he has to go through or who he has to kill.
Yeah he is great.
At first I didn't particularly like Camellia's voice either but it's grown on me since I don't *think* she should have any hint (other than what you do sometimes get) of being some sort of psycho or malevolent force. Her sort of normal down-to-earth, almost nondescript but haughty tone is perfect for her character.
Yeah there's a case to be made for that I agree. For me it should sound more mysterious but you are right she shouldn't be tipping people off.
She's the Dexter of the group.
Death is life's biggest surprise; and I love surprising people!
@A/Moral Man not really. Dexter only kills murderers and other people doing evil. Camelia kills innocents to satisfy her urges.
She is useful, is she not?
Seelah seems more romanceable than the previous icon character from Kingmaker - Amiri. However, I think that is the reason she isn't an option because fans asked about Amiri in Kingmaker and both Paizo and Owlcat pointed fingers at each other for why she wasn't an option. It could be both don't want to make icon characters romanceable, but don't want to take the blame.
Weird I wonder why Owlcat would be against it.
I mean the face of Mass Effect (aside from Shepard) is Garrus Vakarian, you know who has a great romance? Garrus Vakarian! I don't know why owlcat things icon romances can't work
Woljif is my fav with how hes tied to you and how you influence him; it makes him the best companion IMO
The point of Lann is, that he hides behind his humor, while in constant struggle with the fact, that he will soon die and overall is what he is: this mongrel half fiend monster, left by his mother, who after him wasn't able to even bear a single child alive anymore, his dad already dead, with a quick decay in his last years and all this doesn't really make him the confident that there would be any woman ever to see something in him.
So while our artistocrat is the one who is coming for you and that pretty aggressively, Lann is the exact opposite of that.
Ember! She's just wholesome, I have a hard time not including her in every single party I run. Even when I did my Demon run, I kept her in the party throughout.
Very wholesome and very useful for sure.
Try pushing her to righteous wrath or demoralize her constantly like a psycho. Both create cool endings.
I've seen similar trends with what you said about Seelah, but in her specific case I really think it's because Owlcat doesn't allow for romancing pivotal Pathfinder characters. If you look at Kingmaker, the Barbarian Amri was a pivotal character from the tabletop books. She wasn't a romance option. It's the same with Seelah, she's from the tabletop game as well.
Yeah I just don't get if they let us kill her why won't they let us romance her.
Spoiler for Nenio's quest:
The moment she won my heart was when after beating her dungeon, she said my (the commandar's) name, and then later on, when you bring it up, she gives a cheeky reply of "not remembering it". Such a shame we couldn't romance her.
Yeah I LOVE that scene.
I love Daeran, his romance is so sweet and lovely.
I’ve legit been seduced by a bloody character in a video game, it ain’t fair XD
Your content is amazing bro, absolutely love this video. Any time I'm starting to feel burnt out I just need to tune into your channel and I'm pumped to boot WotR up and get my adventure on :D Thank you!
Thank you! Really glad you are enjoying the content!
I would love to see a "Bonnie and Clyde" relationship arc with evil Arueshalae where the two of you just revel in mayhem together.
EXACTLY!!!
Thanks for your great videos, love your style, always smiling and happy, explaining things real well, and it's great fun to listen to you
Ember telling me I'm a good person, she likes me, will always make me smile.
Oh yeah it's a really warm feeling.
Daeran has to be one of the best healers ever made in gaming.
A spoiled rich weirdo who, quite literally, became a healer cause his parties were so crazy that people were getting hurt.
Come on, it cannot get better than that.
😂😂
What you talking about?
Camellia has the best voice actor of the bunch.
Her battle cries and ambient dialogue are meme gold.
She plays the spoiled, snobby rich girl so well that if you're not paying attention to what's going on around her, it's very easy to write her off and not notice the intentional ambiguity in her line delivery.
And then when the Big Twist comes, she's positively chilling.
It took a while for her voice to grow on me. I like it more now but yeah at first I found it grating.
"If you corrupt Arueshalae you can't romance her that's wack"
No, it isn't. Because then she's not romantic at all. She's reverted to a succubus. You'd be more likely to be able to romance Regill than a corrupted Arueshalae, fullstop.
Corrupting her kills that side of her. Period. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Nenio would be more romantic than a corrupted Arue (hint: Nenio isn't romantic at all, it's something she would instantly forget as totally unimportant).
Arue will do with you what she does - sex at every opportunity. But it's unromantic. It highlights that this kind of "making love" ultimately isn't. Just go to the Ten Thousand Delights and see if any of them are any different.
If she *was* romancable as a corrupted succubus it would make everything that is revealed earlier an utter lie. Sorry you don't like this fact but it is what it is, your character will just have to enjoy the rather empty physicality and leave it at that lol.
P.S. you do get the same thing with Arueshalae as those other couples. Lots of sex and her banter about that. You don't get warm cuddles but those other relationships aren't about that, either.
I suppose to replicate those demonic relationships you use as your example, Arueshalae could try to kill the main character several times, but I don't think this would be very enjoyable content since none of the companions is any kind of challenge for the main character. Or she could try to kill you in your sleep but then that would cause other problems.
To be honest she IS romancable as corrupted succubus because corrupted succubus is what her state technically is when you first meet her (:
In the Ten Thousand Delights, Morevet Honeyed Tongue has a completely different relationship with the Vavakia than you can have with Arue. Same with Chivvaro and Minagho. There is no lore reason we cannot have a similar chaotic relationship with Arue.
@@SlanderedGaming I replied to my own comment on that - Morevet's relationship and Chavvaro's relationship involve _periodically trying to kill each other_ but that would be boring in the context of the game since no companion is any challenge at all and if it was a challenge it wouldn't be an enjoyable one. I suppose Arue could kill the main character in his sleep and you would have your 'relationship'
These relationships you rationalize as the reason why you should have one are *nothing like a romance*
My personal take on the companions:
- Camellia: Original personality, albeit extremely demented.
- Regill: Pure comedy this one :)
- Ember: Almost generic, but she has a lot of redeeming qualities.
- Sosiel: He felt boring to me.
- Woljif: Excellent voice acting, but too generic companion overall. Almost everything about him was cliche.
- Seelah: Excellent implementation of otherwise boring hero architype. Adds flavour to the cliche paladin.
- Lann: Intersting story about struggle with destiny.
- Wenduag: Generic powerhungry fool.
- Daeran: You will either hate him or love him.
- Nenio: Wierd and funny. I liked her a lot :)
- Greybor: Interesting dichotomy between pragmatism and practicality. I liked him a lot.
- Arueshalae: Extremely original character. Fall from grace from Planescape Torment was the only character close to Arue that I have seen. And I have played a lot of cRPG-s. I liked her a lot :)
Awesome. Glad you enjoyed most of the characters.
agreed with most of them, though found seelah so damn boring, plus some of her dialogue breaks immersion( you go sister) with modern takes in a fantasy setting off putting. plus she is just a party filler till galfrey.
Ember is actually older than most of the members of your party. She played with Woljif when he was a child (he grew up and threw rocks at her and laughed). For an elf she's a "child" but she's a lot older than she looks.
Love your takes on the characters, though.
Yup I know it's just hard to see her as an adult. LOL
The only reason Seelah is unavailable as a romantic partner is her iconic status to Pathfinder universe and Paizo in general. The same was for Amiri in Kingmaker. Shame though.😍
That's no excuse. If they could do it for Arushalae they can do it for Seelah.
@@txt5220 Arushalae was already a romance in the tabletop version.
I don’t really understand what is wrong with romancing “iconic”. They’re not actual world level lore characters like Sorshen or something. They’re artwork and a weird set of stats in various APs and novels I think. so it’s not even like they have 1 story that is congruent.
And Seelah is about as lax a Paladin imaginable. Like romancing Queen Galfrey is more lore significant than Seelah.
I don't understand the reasoning behind this choice. Just because she is iconic doesn't mean she shouldn't be romanceable. If I can kill her why can't I marry her? LOL
@@SlanderedGaming I think Paizo wants to keep all control over their characters. Although, this is kinda not true too since Galfrey is romanceable for exemple.
You are right about Soseil's quest ending. The fact that you need to make such specific dialogue choices so far ahead of when the outcome takes place, and that its so unintuitive, is really annoying. I dont really see why picking the most optimistic choices about his brother, particularly in light of the 2 people you speak 2 at the lost chapel singing his praises, would prevent the option to recruit Trever.
Luckily it seems like they have changed that.
Sosiel becomes very very strong due to his access to domains. Every mythic rank you go for impossible domains =)
A tip is to get animal domain and get a dog or whatever animal you want early, awesome!
That definitely does make him stronger. My issue with it is from a roleplaying standpoint Sosiel wouldn't worship anyone outside of Shelyn. Therefore taking another deities domains feels wrong to me.
really excellent video. Very well done.
Thank you!
New to your channel loving the WotR content, you are a real nerd's nerd and I mean that in the best way possible
Thank you! That's definitely a great compliment!
May I ask what weapon you have on your ember in this video? Also: Team Ember all the way, though my #1 is Woljif.
Ashmaker Quarterstaff. Nice what do you like about Woljif?
@@SlanderedGaming nice, thanks! I just love his personality. He’s a blast in whenever he chimes in lol. I built him as Eldritch Scoundrel + Arcane Trickster and I find his kit SUPER fun. Invisible impromptu sneak attack Hell Rays are entertaining to do.
Camellia is my favorite character. She’s a fantastic front line fighter as a spirit hunter or as a rogue/slayer/fighter type and she really makes a perfect dpr character. Honestly I love taking her through about level 12 or so as a master of all rogue to make her a skill monkey dpr, and then swap her back to shaman wants she gets level 6 spells where her spell list isn’t garbage anymore.
Romance is dogshit but fun. Her voice actor is a little off but I think it’s intentional.
My problem with Camelia is she’s got somewhat limited availability…
Yup I am a big fan of her.
Why do you have a horse as a companion ?
Does that horse take up a party slot ?
I only have kingmaker, so I donno how you got a horse in there.
Some classes allow you to pick an animal companion. It does not take up a slot so you can still have five party members. Kingmaker also has classes like this such as Mad Dog under Barbarian.
It meanwhile doesn't take a party slot away.
You will be still 6, your horse will be treated like a seventh.
@@MirrorOfEmotions so it's a pet
Camellia is one of my favourite characters personality wise and mechanically. Great tank, dps and decent support caster/healer (particularly as a trickster with completely normal spell and the improved crit line). Her personality being unchanging is fine imo. She is a psychopath, and a redemption arc wouldnt fit at all (she was clearly born with her killer impulses from conversations with her). I think her voice is a good fit to be honest, superficially sweet and cool (with the only real emotion showing with lines like "the world in crimson") is in keeping with psychopath maintaining a façade.
Mechanically speaking it's not much of a façade, anyone paying attention will figure her out pretty quickly. An amulet that disguises her alignment? Well, good or neutral characters wouldn't need one, and the game has LE and NE characters in the party without hiding it, so it becomes obvious Camellia is chaotic evil by simple process of elimination. Then there's her combat barks, which confirm she's more than a little unhinged and enjoying herself too much.
What are you doing to make her a DPS? Or a Tank for that matter? Rapier is pretty awful for damage compared to 2handed melee and bows, and since the Antagonize Feat isn't implemented in this game the only thing stopping enemies from walking past high AC party members is AoO damage (and as I said, rapiers ain't doing much). I've got Piranha Strike and Mythic Weapon Finesse on her, but even with her Spirit Enchantment she can't really compete for damage.
@@HouseLyrander Elemental barrage, crit feats (particularly if trickster) and outflank, combat reflexes and ever ready. Base weapon damage is not particularly important.
As for tanking, depending on spirits, you can get personal buffs like sea mantle, frightful aspect and obviously using a shield she can benefit from magic vestment twice. As a practical matter, enemies dont ignore high AC members until they have missed them for several rounds in most cases, and she can get her AC high enough to be a respectable tank on core difficulty, overtaking Seelah for AC late game.
Mythic weapon finesse is a waste of a mythic feat and comes alot later than level 5 when you can grab fencing grace, and dont use piranha strike. Its far more important to hit (ele barrage alone is 15d6 divine damage on average per hit at mythic rank 10), than to do a bit more damage per hit, particularly with a very large threat range and the AoOs this generates, so long as you are actually hitting and confirming. Spirit weapon without ele barrage is anaemic in this game due to how prevalent elemental resists are even from chapter 1.
@@notalefty999 I'm gonna have to disagree with you on enemies ignoring high AC characters because in my experience, who enemies target is completely random. It's not weird for me to see an enemy charge right past my frontline towards the casters in the first round of combat and get beheaded by Seelah for their troubles, nor is it weird to see them relentlessly miss Woljif and never learn. Not saying high AC isn't nice to have, just that it's not really a full on role in this game.
The damage build as you described it doesn't sound like it comes online until at least midgame either, and by then I have plenty of other characters who can kill an enemy in 1 turn (or multiple enemies if they're an archer). Does using a weapon with multiple elemental types (either natively or by adding more with Spirit Weapon) allow you to trigger Elemental Barrage in a single Full Attack? Because if not, I don't see it being worthwhile outside of really high difficulties with very inflated HP pools because taking a turn to mark an enemy, then switching elements with Spirit Weapon to damage them next turn sounds like a bad strategy.
My first actual laugh out loud moment came when Daeran is given the “honor” of not being able to flee the crusade. I’m in act 3 on my first play through, but that alone has me loving the queen as a character already. That was some A++ passive aggressive behavior.
There’s a lot of missed opportunities with Regill for sure. Why the Hellknight prestige class isn’t locked behind something involving him, and maybe even the arminger fighter archetype doesn’t actually involve the Hellknights at all, is disappointing.
Also when Mepho shows up to participate in the crusade, you’d really think there would be some kind of interactions there. Nope. Both completely ignore each other, sitting 5 feet apart in the command room.
Hmm, maybe it was added later to the game and you didn’t saw that, but my character as a hellknight had a conversation option mentioning that MC is hellknight too, and you get an answer that you are on the council, but we do not grant you the rank of master, err, you are not officially accepted by hellknights and then you could do a little quest to gain official rank and your own set of hellknight armor.
They were never gonna lock any class behind a npc because it robs player agency.
There is a hellknight related quest but I think it is hidden beyhind some specific dialogue.
Seelah like Amiri is an iconic character, which basically means she is based on source material, not an invention of Owlcat, so I think this limits what they are allowed to do with her character arc pretty significantly. Amiri was also unromanceable. As an aside, I am pretty sure Mazzy wasnt black, she is blue eyed, much paler skin than Valygar, and all the women in BG2 other than Viconia had braids, but if you just look at her hair, its not afro texture. Also, I am not sure if drow count, but Viconia was literally black and a romanceable option. Granted, her features were more typical of a white woman (I think she was based on an actual photo of a model).
Yeah I just don't understand why Paizo is putting on those limitations.
@29:00 Actually, Daeran can take an animal companion as well as long as you take an additional Mystery: Nature with your Mythic ability for him. That opens up the revelation for an animal companion ("Bonded Mount"). At 7th level, I was able to take a Wolf since it becomes large at that time. It levels up all the way to Daeran's level.
Great video, you're an insightful reviewer. Cheers
Nice I didn't realize one of his revelations did that. I will check it out next time.
cant romance corrupted Aru when u play demon is a let down for me , but angel path with her is a blast
Yup agree on both points.
I thought the same about Woljif! The only reason for me to play female main characters is to check out the romances, to learn more about the party members I like. Woljif should, at the very least, be romanceable by female tieflings (he does show interest for that tiefling mentioned in his first companion quest), in the same vein that there are some race specific romances in dragon age for example.
Yup I agree 100%.
Woljif should have been romanceable by male tieflings as well. He calls male tieflings "dreamboat", there's bonus dialogue with corrupt Arue where he asks if she can turn into a guy (with oddly specific details), and don't get me started on his dynamic with Daeran. Actually, given his apparent preferences in his dialogue with Arue, he should have been romanceable by aasimars as well. Oh screw it, he should have been romancable by everyone.
@@HouseLyrander Oh, english not being my native language, I (apparently) mistook dreamboat for someone being aloof or not paying attention, not as some sort of flirting. I never corrupted Arue, so that's good to know, and well, I don't remember enough of his banter with Daeran.
You're right though, I don't know what the writers from Owlcat were thinking.
I have found a mod on Nexus Mods for a romance with Woljif for women and men. Rejoice!
@@_Chantelle I know of it! I heard nothing but good stuff about it, I have it installed and everything. The moment I stop feeling the burnout of some 6+ playthroughs I'll give it a try (most likely, once the enhanced edition goes live)
I keep hearing that Wenduag is written well but her actions don't make sense near the end of her questline given her thirst for power and what she has witnessed you accomplish. It really irks me since I like her a lot as a character.
Well, in all fairness, Wendy is stupid. I mean, she is literally a stupid person, just ignore her average INT stat and think of her as having a WIS and INT of around 5. A lot of her lines demonstrate how stupid she is, like when she complains about you saving your army from the vescavor swarm and you have to explain that you kinda need an army if you're going to conquer Drezen.
@@droe2570 When you put it that way, things do make a lot more sense. I was giving her too much credit lol
That end part is kind of what I was talking about regarding the cons of her character. Owlcat didn't go all the way with making her a cruel power hungry person and I feel like it weakened her content.
In Germany we says, Kuss auf die Nuss. In english it will be worked too xD Your channel (and you) is absolutly Amazing. So lovely telling how this world works, so incredible exploration of every single spell. Holy cow its perfect! Thank you!
Thank you so much! Glad you are enjoying the content!
Love them SO much:
Lan or Wendu (depending)
Sosiel
Daeren
Greybor
Woljif
Regill
Arue
Seelah
People I bench ASAP:
Cam
Ember
Nenio
Agree on the ending of Daeran’s questline, but disagree on his personality never changing. I feel like that’s slightly locked behind his romance though, similar to Wenduag, and his is much more subtle.
My favorite character has got to be Ember. She just adds so much to the game, giving everything and everyone around her a depth you wouldn’t see if she wasn’t in your party. It’s like rolling with a mini Aeon/GD.
Least fave is Cam lol. If she’s a foil to Wenduag, I find Wendu to be leagues more compelling of a character. Also, I get that Owlcat wanted to give us hints as to Cam’s personality, but it felt more like I was being beat over the head with it. I just wish there was a little more...mystery.
It sounds like he almost missed parts of Daerans evolution. He is one of the characters who changes the most based on how you interact with him
In what way do you feel like Daeran changed?
@@SlanderedGaming Have you seen the ending slide where the commander sacrifices himself? Daeran gives up all his belongings to wander the world and heal the needing.
In certain endings he also takes a role as a bigger brother to Woljif
Damn the strong black women who you can´t romance is actually a thing! Pallegina from Pillars of Eternity also fit the category
Exactly! It's really annoying.
I almost always bring Seelah. Pallies are always useful, especially when fighting demons. Give her that immune to fire cape and she can stand and fight forever. Lann is super useful. You get him early and can customize him, and unlike Wenduag, he's not a traitorous monster. But if you bring Wendy instead, she's a Lann swap. However, Wendy is much more interesting as a character, and has great lines in the game. I love her "crit" and "kill" proclamations. She's evil and traitorous and very stupid, but she is well written.
Woljiff disappears and I never see him again afterwards. Maybe because it's so easy to not ever see him again is why he's not romancable.
Sosiel annoys me, as does Daeran. I prefer Daeran over Sosiel, but I tend to just make a healbot. As a healer Daeran is better than Sosiel.
Greybor is bland, but he unlocks Hedge Knights, one of the two actually good offense units for the crusade.
Ember and Nenio annoy me to no end, though both are quite useful, Ember is especially a wrecking machine.
Regill is a boss. He has great character, perhaps the best VA, great lines. He's set up as a DPS build, but you get him early enough to make him a tank instead. But his companion story is basically non-existent, and he never changes or grows.
Aru actually annoys me. Sometimes she has these great mature person lines, and other times she's just a super cringe zoomer demanding affirmation. However, Aru, the Hand of the Inheritor, and the MC are three characters that embody a main theme of the game: the theme of changing one's essence, the idea of can a person change the soul of who they are by changing their entire perspective and value systems. This is why I tend to like her; I see has as a central figure in the largest theme of the main story. Like you said, she's a latecomer and you already have at least one archer (Lann/Wendy and maybe the MC).
I don't mention the romances because I find romances in CRPGs to be, well, absolutely terrible.
that is a great point about woljif
You never saw Woljif again? Wow that has never happened to me before. I didn't even know it was possible.
@@SlanderedGaming remember i just got to act 3
@@yomogami4561 I had to play 2 hours or so in Act 3 before I got Woljif back. Most of that time was spent running around with my armies on the map and defeating demon armies. I'm sure, if you know what to do, you can get him back fairly soon after starting Act 3.
@@Cuiva thanks
Greybor is my favorite because we used to chill out with the crew in the school yard.
Overall what I can definitely say is that in WotR, compared to kingmaker, most of the companions are at least reasonably stated so even on hard(what I am playing on) you can rely on them doing their job and not having to rely on mercs to fill in the gap.
Plus they really put more emphasis on them having dialogue during the main story, so that's another big plus.
Whereas in Kingmaker I had to struggle to find 5 official companions to pull me through hard, here I feel like I am spoiled for choices and get to change my team up every mission. Plus the characters are so much more interesting to boot.
The only complain I have is that for some reason Owlcat has 3 different characters be dual wielding by default and if you try to spec into anything else they have a bunch of feats that are wasted
I really hope in the next game they give each character a unique skill/feat/mythic feat(if they keep that system) so there is an actual reason for you to use these characters other than story, so far I haven't had anything game changing (I mean Arue has really high stat spread since she's a demon, but that isn't particularly exciting)
I strongly agree. Giving the characters something unique would be very nice.
My favorites were Seehla, Lann, Woljiff and Sosiel (liked both quests and mechanics). Honorable mentions to Daeran and Nenio who made me laugh quite a bit. Ember is quite usefull with her hexes in combat. My least favorites were Camellia (I had to kill her), Wenduag (so stupid) and Regill (quite annoying).
Nice there's something in the group for everyone.
So what Nenio saying saying at first encounter with the demon lord?
*Spoilers*
Your first Demon Lord fight is against Baphomet. She notes that he has the physiology of a goat while his demonic children are all bulls(cows). She then asks if he is mating with a cow whose genes are more powerful than his own. YIKES.
@@SlanderedGaming Based lol
Thanks for info btw I didnt notice that < _ >
Definitely love my Baby Sosiel, i romance him EVERY time I make a male character 😂. I enjoy his quest line and his character as a whole. But my close second is Daeran, He never could fool me with his attitude, I knew he was soft and kind deep down and the few moments he show some vulnerability (especially at the lost chapel) I just can’t help but melt.
Yup seems like a lot of people really like Daeran's romance.
It’s not so much that Daeran doesn’t have a character arch, as that it’s mostly hidden behind his romance. His true love path to be precise. It kind of makes sense considering it would be that rare circumstance where he would allow someone to get close enough to make an impact. The problem, as you pointed out, is his final quest that probably got rushed in the end, like many other things…It had this incredible build up through out the game just to fall completely flat in the last chapter. Regill is my second favorite. Followed closely by Ember and Woljif. I like Camellia’s story but I absolutely hate her spoiled princess attitude. Her constant whining and nagging is the reason why she’s never in my party.
Yeah Daeran's ending kind of ruins everything for me.
From a purely mechanical standpoint, Sosiel can be a beast after some mythic impossible domains. I thought he was a throwaway companion initially, but once I started messing around, he's the only healer/buffer I need.
Agreed even though I hate doing that because it clashes with his actual lore but it's too good to pass up.
I like to choose my party at random whenever I leave a settlement. Every time Nenio or Daeran don't get the roll of the dice I have to resist the urge to kick someone out and take them anyways.
They are so awesome.
I like to give Camelia some levels in Duelist, and give her Int headbands, and leave her spellcasting lower, since, like you said, she doesn't have a lot of spellcasting potential. My experience with that is that she makes a fantastic Duelist as a front-line damage dealer. She might be better as melee damage than Woljif to be honest
Nice! I hadn't thought about that but it makes perfect sense.
I love Camilias voice. My heart flutters whenever she speaks 😍
LOL Nice glad you are enjoying it.
Camellia is almost making my paladin loose his lawful good lmao.
I also lament the possible romance option for Seelah. She is just too awesome!!
Exactly that would be so awesome!
Regill reminds me a lot of Canderous Ordo from Knights of the Republic which is why I loved him so much.
I LOVED Canderous Ordo. One day I'll do a video listing my top party members.
Haven't picked the game up since just after getting Regill. But I like him already. He reminds me of Harrim in how persuasively he draws you into his way of thinking from his backstory (or at least your attempt to get one out of Regill) while the game's alignment compass wants you to think he's just plain twisted.
"Especially when you figure out more of what's going on with her but other team members still haven't caught on." I trust my allies and will not be casting alignment attack spells on them; Camelia's secret's safe with me!
Nenio? I'll admit I haven't tired yet at how many different original ways she has of saying, "This is irrelevant." So much for having her break tie votes.
I'm afraid Nenio's jarring initial put down of Daeran's age killed any respect I might have of him (never mind how often she calls the main the same thing).
I really like Seelah. She fills the iconic Pathfinder character shoes much better than Amiri did.
"These grey characters that are... all right with you if you do good things..." Oh, no, Woljif's a Karen. Just play true to Lawful Good.
LMFAO Yeah that's true Woljif does have a problem with good too shoes.
YES, i was crushed on my demon playthrough when Arushalae doesnt really have an evil romance, but at least my character was able to become nocticula consort lol
😂
Romance gives characters buff to stats?
Regill or greybor are both my favourites, I can easily understand why people dont like greybor though, Considering the sort of transformation he goes through in the last two acts.
I think they are both great characters just ranked lower in comparison to other's that are available.
Can´t believe so many ppl hate Nenio, she is gold. :D
I couldn't agree more!
Dareran is chaotic neutral cosplaying as neutral evil there I said it
😂
Seelah and Camellia are irreplaceable for me. I always have them. Ember’s spell list is limited but has a lot of really decent spells on her. Daeran is much better healer and I don’t mind anything about his build. Usually that gives me about 1 position to play with but it’s basically gonna go to an archer type. Aru or Wendy like always. Lamb if I have to
Yup that's a solid squad.
I'm shocked how different your opinions are on the party members. My own rankings would almost be a complete flip of yours.
😂😂 That's the beauty of this game. Really all the party members are awesome so it's easy to have different lists.
I don't know if this is the reason WHY Seelah is not romanceable. But in the Pathfinder Comics, Seelah is in a committed relationship with the female Cleric of Saranrae, her name slips my mind, Kemintiri or something. I totally get why they don't actually reference it. Their relationship is very similar to Irabeth and Anevia's.
Oh wow that's interesting I didn't know that. Thanks for bringing it up.
From mechanics, Arue, Daeran, Wenduag/Lann and Ember are the best for me. Personality wise Daeran, Nenio and Regill are great. Regill giving Sosiel the 3rd degree every turn was brutal.
Regill and Sosiel are a very entertaining combo.
May I ask what weapon you have on your ember in this video?
I think that not being able to romance arueshalae if you corrupt her is kinda the point of her entire character arc, I understand the frustration and the desire to try a different kind of romance but I think that it's better the way it is now
Maybe but it doesn't make sense to me considering other Demons have wild chaotic evil romances with no problem.
My party selection is usually along the lines of Seelah/Camilla, Wenduag/Arueshalae, Ember/Daeran/Lann (Zen Archer 3/Crusader Cleric rest), Greybor/Regill. Which one I bring depends on the class I play myself and alignment. Ember and Daeran can be either healer oriented or extreme blaster. I never take Sosiel or Woljif (or Trevor lmao), though, I just can't make them work on Core and above. The new guy Ulbrig is extremely strong and probably replaces Greybor/Regill unless I make Wenduag a Child of the Manticore Shifter.
Edit: Completely forgot about Nenio, I hate her quest, so I don't take her.
Lann surprised me with how much I liked him as I only remebered him being a minor npc in the module. He has a good sense of humor, an interesting outlook on life (wanted to do the right thing but could be just as pragmatic as Regill), and you sympathized with his goal (wanted to do good for his people with what little time he had left). He was definitely my first romance option.
Daeran spoiled brat attitude could get grating (I'll give the VA credit for making him sound like the stereotypical rich teen) but he could be funny (especially with Nenio and Wolgif) and the vulnerability he shows when you romance him is really touching.
Seelah, I will admit was a surprise, especially since I read her bio for PF iconics. I definitely enjoyed her character. Kudos to the VA as ell
Regill, maybe because Hellknight is one of my favorite PCs in general, but I was already bias to this little gnome when he was first announced. I've always enjoyed pragmatic characters if done right.
Wolgif...might be in the minority but he was an eeeeh...for me. As with earlier, he can have funny dialogue but the constant need to seem like he had it the hardest and incapable of thinking anyone from any background could have problems (Camilla having an abusive mother? Doesn't matter because she was rich!). Really bugged me. This especially bugged me when. Spoiler alert:
One ending has it so he can be born human, have a normal life, and still grows up into a thief. So the whole "I've had it so hard because I'm a tiefling" thing really looses it lustsr.
Aru: Love her, glad the game didn't disappoint with her. Enough said.
Sosiel: A bit boring yes, but I gave him points for managing to tell Wolgif to shut up in what I call the neutral good wau 😄
Nenio: Currently running WoTR and was running it before the game came out. Literally had an NPC similar to her. Her name was Neela, a tiefling magus who wanted to document the Worldwound and enjoyed samples from different kinds of demons. One of my players and I laughed at the similarities.
*spoilers*
Was Camellia's mother abusive? I thought she just realized her child was a psychopath and tried to kill her. I don't think she was abusive to Camellia in any way before that.
Ember is my favorite by far. I don't know how many times she has said exactly what I was thinking. I also really like Nenio, whom I find hilarious (I realize that a lot of people find her annoying though).
Yeah the Nenio hate confuses me. LOL
Nenio feels like she is in a different campaign and maybe a different party.
Ember best
Trever is missing in the list. And I thought you would put Arue on top :-D
I considered Trevor a more hidden character and therefore left him off a non-spoiler ranking. Plus I don't have any playthroughs where I successfully unlocked him. LOL
@@SlanderedGaming 🤣 But he is neither romance nor path specific.
@@Nikioko LOL This is a fact but he requires an extremely specific set of dialogues to unlock. I have finished four Mythic Paths and still do not have him.
@@SlanderedGaming You have to render him neither a traitor nor a hero, but a victim of war.
Greybor certainly isnt a tank, but is comfortably the easiest character to build and play for very high damage. You can more mileage out of other NPCs, but generally you will need to either micromanage them more, or be inventive with your build. Regarding his squishiness, sending in a tank first and using enlarge person/legendary proportions to boost his reach actually works pretty well at stopping enemies from targeting him.
Yeah Slayer is awesome.
daeran is literally the only staple i keep, if hes not healing hes buffing. he also isn't pissy about any choices i make like nenio. so i rank him 1 aru is a close second because of her skill coverage and tireless story.
We call daerun daddy daerun
I don't disagree, Daeran is awesome and a blast to keep around.
If you had to choose between romancing Aru or Wenduag, which had the most satisfying conclusion for you?
Personally I found both of them to be very satisfying. I would say romancing Wenduag reveals more layers about her whereas Aru is pretty much what you see from the very beginning.
A big problem i have with Nenio are her opposition school. Necromancy i can go without but is a shame to lose but not being able to cast Abjuration spells like stoneskin and most importantly Dispell magic really cripples her use for me and downgrades her to just a damage caster.
I agree that Abjuration really hurts. That's why I do not use her for buffing.
The thing about Seelah: the reason why she can't be romanced is that she is a 'Paizo original' character, so they can't really write a story that conflicts with her official lore (was the same with Amiri in Kingmaker).
I don't understand why the game will let you kill her but not have a relationship with her.
@@SlanderedGaming yeah, that kinda makes no sense ... then again, not being able to kill her would break the story for certain paths.
Good job man. I agree with most stuff. I will say Greybor can get decently survivable if you build him out for shield bashing.
Thanks glad you enjoyed it! Never thought of a shield bashing build for Greybor.
My ranking is pretty close.
1. Nenio 100% she is a mix of my adhd brain and scientific out look. Hilarious at every moment and incredibly powerful. I love how the story can be in the middle of the most serious moments and she just says something left field making me laugh. Also if you never seen it you should talk to her while she’s in the nexus and wants to do the experiment on how to be a better friend.
2. Camilla I like the idea of crazy that you can’t change because it throws in the air the trope of the female romance you can “fix”. Her quest feels less about her arc and more about yours. What is your characters limit what will they accept for live or power. She also makes a good evil cleric or summoner if you don’t like Melee. Camilla’s voice fits for me for one reason, I think she’s a sociopath she doesn’t have any true emotions like most other people have. She sorta fakes how she’s meant to feel and talk while only ever feeling anything when she kills and even then that’s fleeting and never fulfills her.
3. Seelah ok romance. I get your con but it was never gonna happen. Just like kingmaker romance with the iconic hero’s was a hard no from Pazio and a requirement for them to even have the right to make a pathfinder game. what sucks is with all the backstory they come with they generally come off as top of the line party members. Also love paladins that aren’t the lawful stupid trope. She would of made a good romance
4. Ember. She’s an adult but I get where your coming from it’s hard to not see her as a child the way she looks and acts. I love the whole way she talks. Saying what she thinks and feels regardless if it’s to a farmer or a demon lord. She sums up the idea of an atheist in a world where the gods can come down for a visit.
5. Arue. Ya she’s a trope and her story kinda was dictated by the pen and paper adventure but I just love everything about it. Romance I didn’t care about the evil issue I am way to much a lore junkie and I feel as die hard as their base is they would of had issues if they had broken lore even if it was a good reason.
6/7 Wendy and lann are tied. They both make me have to think hard decide who I want. There versatility is the main draw for me (Btw lann makes a great primal Druid if you want another pet). I would say Wendy’s story quest is better but I wonder if lanns was on purpose. Like his romance and quest is so bland and normal cause that’s what he wants in life. Remember his dream is mostly to go on a boat so it makes some sense he doesn’t have some grand aspirations or epic quest.
The rest I barely use. I never liked regills class or attitude but maybe when o go devil and make him a full part of the team I’ll change my mind.
Greybors good but just struck me as cookie cutter assassin doing it for the money. Never felt he grew out of that and his quest was the same. Wish we had delved more into his backstory in his quest rather then his future job prospects.
The brothers. I have a guide to get both for the angel I’m playing now so it may change my mind but both seem just boring. Worse part is clerics are important and it makes me glad that Camilla, ember, or Daren can easily fill the gap so you aren’t forced like kingmaker.
I never use Daren no reason why just haven’t gotten around to it.
Also major mistake in not giving the undead more to say. Watching your play thru i see so many areas I wish they just had more to say feels like a missed opportunity to make the lich even more epic than it already is.
I don’t say much about power because most anyone can be molded into something op even for unfair and personally I hate the “everyone’s level 1 when you find them” trope. The idea that they have some training or expertise in life and you can’t change that makes them so much more real to me.
I definitely agree with your last point. I don't need all of them to be level 1 I just hate being level 9 before I reach them. As much as I complain about Sosiel the level we get him is alright. Greybor and Arue though are another story.
Seelah is one of the Pathfinder Iconics (like Amiri) and originally not related to the WoTR campaign.
Oh wow originally she is not in it? What campaign is she involved in?
@@SlanderedGaming Core Rulebook p. 61. 😉
No, the campaign was Curse of the Crimson Throne from 2008. Wrath of the Righteous is from 2013.
But according to „Meet the Iconics“: Seelah debuts as a pregenerated character in volume 7 of Pathfinder and in GameMastery Module W2: River Into Darkness.
My favorite character is daeren he’s just a good character through and through for me and he never leaves my party, his romance is cool too
I honestly never leave Lan behind. He is my crutch. Absolute machine gun, and cleaving shot is absolutely nasty for trash mobs.
Oh yeah Lann is absolutely brutal.
My favourite ones are: Delamere, Wenduag and Regil (he is just always right). While i cannot stand: Seelah, Nenio and Sosiel.
This is just my opinion, but my favorite waifu is Aru, ember is my adopted daughter unless I'm swarm, Nenio is my favourite kook, and Regil is the straight man to hold it all together.
😂
Chosen morality limits player action in game? What happens if lawful good start to do bad things?
It's not so much about what you do moment to moment as it is about where you sit in the alignment. Some classes or mythic paths require you to be at a specific alignment to get more levels or gain mythic quests. That might sound complicated but in practice it's very easy to figure out.
Mechanically Ember is fine, but her character, whilst potentially interesting, is pretty unbelievable. She both has mysterious insights about individuals, which would presumably require her to be wise, and a manifestly false belief in the inherent goodness of everyone, even including bloodthirsty demons who have chaos and evil woven into their being, and are formed from the souls of extremely evil people. The fact that she sets Nocticula, a creature many thousands of years old, on the path to redemption after 2 brief encounters is totally implausible, and the final quest where she is converting demons to the crusade who have literally only just met her, without any suggestion that compulsion magic was involved, is beyond ridiculous. I mean, Arueshalae's ascension is a long drawn out process started by literal divine intervention, and Ember is turning demons into righteous crusaders instantly by making self evidently false declarations about inherently good they are.
What causes Nocticula to change in the TT? If it is a sudden about change there then I don't see why it would be a problem here.
So far my most usefull early lvls been Wendaug with Vital strike. Nenio about to be very usefull with fighting Gargoyles which killed me first time..(but am about to hit 8 and try obsidian flow and confusion with skelle spam n haste)
Wenduag is a beast the whole game.
Regil is a great Character, both rp and dialoge wise, but also a good combatant with some tweaks
Yeah definitely a strong character.
The biggest letdown for me is that you can't romance Seelah. You can romance all the psychos in the game, no problem. But the one character that is actually well adjusted and wholesome? Nuh uh.
Yup I feel the same way.
I have to be honest, I found Daeran to be snarky in a way which was conceited rather than amusing. Agree on the quest though, really interesting premises, chapter 2 was great, and then almost nothing until chapter 5 when it has a very rushed and unsatisfying ending. Mechanically, he is a very capable healer, but pretty one dimensional.
Yeah I hope they update his ending at some point.
Seelah nr1: best options to build her in the way you want/need for your party
Camelliah nr2: hot, best buffbot in the game (sadly hard to build her any different)
Wenduag nr3: fully customizable Ranged class (can be anything as long as its ranged physical) awful personality tho
Ember nr4: THE caster DPS you were looking for, great character, great builds (CC Witch or DPS arcane trickster)
Daeran nr5: THE healbot, cool personality (tastes can differ obvious), great story, best healer in the game with options to deal dmg thx to his amazing stats
Nenio nr6: amazing CC mage (1 lvl dip into crossblooded for the ultimate Enchanter) disgustingly annoying character, cool quest
Arushalae nr7: Best girl, awful class, no options to differ builds
Woljif nr8: Amazing class and build options, annoying character, boring quest, absent during worst time possible
Sosiel nr9: a very very bad cleric with a cool quest
Regill nr10: funny dude, unlikeable, stereotypical, strong melee dps
Lann nr11: boring character, boring class, boring quest, some "funny" jokes
Greybor nr12
PS: demon is very unappealing exactly becoz this shit XD theres only downsides
"Disgustingly annoying"??? 😂😂😂
@@SlanderedGaming yap, while its funny the first couple times, i really cant say im enjoying her character the longer i have to endure her XD
You can build Camellia in a billion ways. You can go sylvan trickster, you can go rowdy with elven curved blade. You can stay shaman you can do inquisitor you can do angel fire apostate cleric you can do freebooter... Just to name a few
@@zyfryth yes you could make her a sorc with her 13 charisma you could make her a rogue so you have 2 of them you can also do cleric or inquisitor with her 16 whisdom, but overall those are bad builds for high difficulty.
Its quite obvious you can do anything with everyone, im talking about good builds tho
@@Narklas_unavailable Angel-fire apostate Camellia is unfair-viable, believe it or not :) And the idea behind sylvan trickster Camellia is that you have melee prowess if needed, but can also stand behind and support with protective luck / cackle if the sitaution demands it. You can also use the finesse training of dueling swords and dip some aldori defender. Also even if you stay at Shaman you have different ways to approach it.