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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Both cameras are incredible and more than capable. Let's continue the debate in the comments below. Which camera would you choose?
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The capture to cloud feature is actually aimed pretty squarely at bigger narrative productions. Workflows are moving more towards faster dailies and on the fly editing where you can test how a scene edit is flowing and if it needs additional pickup coverage while you still have active access to a set and talent. I’m a DIT and work a lot in post and it’s a cool feature when supported by internet. You get the sound team to put a hop on camera so the files have actual production audio synced and you can realistically have a cut back of the day’s footage by next morning before director even rolls to set.
Interesting take, with the Arri cameras not supporting capture to cloud tho, can this really be adopted at the top? 🤔
This function will be incredibly useful for using in a "future-proof" newsroom environment like we run at EnviroNews and bringing in high quality source footage from multiple news locations on the fly into a central news studio. I personally cannot wait to test what is possible with this (even though we are already using camera-to-cloud functions now).
The proprietary media thing is so misunderstood. First, you do not need the media dock. You can pull the footage off of the camera via Ethernet. This wouldn’t be any different than putting CFExpress cards into a reader attached to a laptop and copying it to an external drive for a client. You just need an Ethernet adapter. Second, there will be a dual CFExpress card module that you can use in the camera. This won’t support the highest resolution footage, but should easily work for 8K or lower resolution.
Oh and the antennas do detach. I saw a video where they had rubber covers on the screw holes instead of the antennas installed.
yepp^ this
Yeah, and the Ethernet download works with some other models too (like BG2) if you plug an adapter.
💯
8:43 I just came off a feature film with an Alexa Mini and the DIT would have LOVED capture to cloud feature. It’s actually really beneficial for the DIT and editor to quickly pump out dailies. All the features of the Ursa Cine point to cinema use including the right side screen which would have been perfect for some of our awkward Fisher 10 dolly shots.
This camera is going to throw a lot of people off because we’d used to BM making cameras for affordable run and gun filmmaking on a budget.
100% agree with you
I like the side screen for one main reason. If a first AC comes to the camera to make camera settings adjustments while the dp is trying to frame something up and they have their hand unit with them, they can quickly get things in focus as they navigate the menu vs having to run back to their station for sharps.
I feel the Canon c500 mark ii with a PL adapter is a better option to the Sony Burano. And you still have enough for 3 Sigma cine lens, cards and batteries
You just described my exact setup. lol.
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Yeah but it's got shit rolling shutter
@@Sam-uw7pw Oh wow 😯. I didn't know that. Never used it personally. Damn! That's bad
@@Sam-uw7pwBurano has worse Rolling Shutter
Hi man. Wanted to respond to the media point you made. Blackmagic confirmed You can actually offload the media via the Ethernet cable and connecting it to a usb-c to Ethernet adapter. So the proprietary media never has to leave the camera and preserves its longevity.
Regarding data handling. If I understand correctly, you will be able to treat the Ursa Cine like a NAS device and pull the files via 10G Ethernet. Higher end sets will not see the data modules as a detriment but it’s definitely a burden for smaller production companies.
The good thing is is that smaller productions aren't using anything over 8k, which black magic will provide a module that supports two CF Express card slots that would be friendly to smaller productions
@@MtZionMediaProBingo 🎯
Better image, far better UI, more flexible, Resolve Studio, usually half the price etc etc. Learn how to focus and data wrangle. Nothing beats Blackmagic at the moment
Loving this channel! Looking forward to seeing the comparison.
Agree with you on most points. In body variable ND systems are trash, you can't use a polarizer on top as you get color shifts all over the image. Of course fixed ND is always better. I never remove my polarizer from my lenses especially when shooting human subjects as it massively tames keylight, backlight and kicker lights reflections and gives much better highlight roll off.
I'm super excited for the ursa cine. Still deciding if I'm gonna pick one up as we do a lot of multicam interviews and would prefer not to deal with color matching. If the image is good enough I could see a swapping our amira's for the cine.
Last I checked Blackmagic will be selling a CF Express adapter that you can use in the media card slot when the camera launches.
Your take on this camera is totally opposite of what some top DOPs say about this camera after they started testing it. And for the record, capture to the cloud is being highly adopted by the movie industry, and I work for Fox Sports. We don't use the cloud. We capture live feed over fiber to the production truck.
Am sure it's amazing in the broadcast world for example fox sports and in use with production trucks. But they called it the URSA "Cine". They have an URSA broadcast camera for that reason
As a cinematographer, the Ursa Cine will outperform anything on the market, and it's half the price of the Sony. John Brawley's footage is amazing, and for the 1st time, Blackmagic's image surpasses the Arri.
@@AaronStowers Let's not get carried away and wait for the camera to be released and thoroughly tested before we make such claims. No camera has come anywhere near Arri's quality yet - neither in terms of DR, highlight handling, skin tones or colour depth. I can't wait to see what the Ursa Cine can do, but at this point we don't know what it's capable of.
Exactly. I plan on doing some damage with this camera in our futuristic, multi-location, newsroom environment.
The two cameras appeal to two different markets. It's not an apples to apples comparison. Burano is really for the solo shooter or smaller crews while the Ursa Cine is made for a full on Production with ACs, DITs etc.
Full production means bigger budget.. so probably almost nobody will use a ursa if you could book a arri or Venice
@@Skepdigger True but that where Blackmagic is trying to position the 12k Ursa Cine. We'll see what the market says.
@@Skepdiggerwell I think we need to wait and see the footage and the real world before we make that statement
The Burano is really great for continuous focus based documentary. But for that price a V raptor makes more sense. The Ursa Cina will make a an excellent B cam for a Venice or and Alexa, and an A cam for an indie feature.
@@TheSpiritawake I agree. I just can't get over the price point of the Burano. An older C500 Mark 2 does similar things at a fraction of the cost.
Regarding the media storage. You still have CF Express slots and a USB Type C for external SSD's.
That's exactly what a person who works at the company said.
Interesting to see what the footage will look like out of this beast. But them hidden costs with batteries, view finder, memory 🥺. Crazy, love to hear your thoughts once that footage starts coming out. Great vid as usual
From a pure image capture point of view I would buy the Ursa Cine every time. Much higher readout speeds, more dynamic range (probably at least two stops when comparing BRAW with X-OCN LT), flexible downscaling with no crop, open gate (which to me is a must), and 8TB of ultra high speed storage included, what a deal! But as a solo operator would I want to haul and rig the Ursa Cine? Not so much. And the Blackmagic name still holds little credibility for commercial work. It’s easy to describe the Burano as a souped up FX9, but outside of VFX shops which know the value of 12K, the Ursa Cine doesn’t have much name recognition. I have no doubt for your use cases the Burano is the better choice and the price difference will not matter. What I’m hoping down the road is to see a CFExpress only redesign of the standard URSA. Something which will be smaller than the new Cine and easier to haul around with the same sensor, but with lower max frame rates and one screen instead of two. Seems likely. We will see.
they said that you can cut the side screen off. And that those 2 things above it are 2 usb-c's that you can plug something into
Yes, connect ssd disc 💿
B&h has the Ursa G2 for 2999. I have the pyxis preorded but i am questioning if the Ursa would be a better move.
You can offload with an Ethernet cable directly from the camera .
i can not wait to get my hand on the ursa cine ... for me, it has everything to wish for and the price is right!
14:25 Bur if it's possible to edit off these modules, then I should be able to connect it to the computer, so I would not beed the racktype reader, right?
Sony Burano max fps @ 8K 17:9 is 30fps with a sensor readout speed of 17.65 ms.. Blackmagic Design URSA Cine 12K max fps @ 8K 17:9 is 180fps with a sensor readout speed of 5.44 ms… Sony Burano has worse readout than FX3!! How is that possible in a $25K camera??
Burano=run and gun/docs and so on,
Ursa Cine=Crewed narrative/commercial production.
I don't feel like this comparison is 100% fair, particularly in the price comparisons near the end where you tacked on the better evf, the higher priced battery (x2) and the "server rack" for media to the Blackmagic and the camera still came out about $4K cheaper than the Sony - you didn't anything else to the Sony, wouldn't that need batteries as well? And as someone already mentioned, Blackmagic is continually seeking cinema productions rather than indie filmmaking or enthusiasts which is why they have never even considered IBIS or Autofocus - and I imagine they probably never will cuz folks continue to buy their cameras without those features added. Definitely two different markets being catered with these two cameras in my opinion.
The point I was making is, anyone shopping for an URSA Cine or Burano. It's not going to be their first camera, they will own an external monitor and lighting etc. meaning they will already have 14V v mounts. Meaning when picking the URSA cine you have to factor in the choice from BM to use the newer 26V batteries as unless you own an Alexa 35 you don't own them batteries. And the BURANO comes with its own style of EVF that is really good, but I do think the BM one will be better.
@@OBP_ Good points, though I believe the Ursa Cine can use lower voltage batteries. However, when doing so you can't shoot in certain formats ( I guess no 17K when using 14.5v batteries).
Just wait a year and BM will sell the URSA Cine at half the original price haha. They’re really starting to build that reputation.
I’m not sure why anyone would buy their cameras right out the gate now. It usually takes them a bit to work out the manufacturing kinks and they appear to be ready to slash the price on anything that doesn’t fly off the shelf immediately.
I’m just hoping the CINE 12K will spark a renewed interest in the original Ursa 12K, as it’s received quite a few big updates but still hasn’t really captured the interest of the industry.
That only matters if you buy equipment to say you own it or to resell it later. But if you buy something because you are going to use it, the price is the price and that's okay.
Honestly, even at $14,000 base it's still a really great bargain compared to the competition.
@@evanthecameraman I think I would be inclined to rent any new BM cameras going forward until I’m certain they’re not just gonna pull the rug out from underneath me and slash the price in half out of no where (Which also sends a ripple effect of no-confidence in the longevity of the product). At least for the first year or so, if I were interested in being an owner/operator of one; at the very least to see how the industry responds to it and to let BM work out the kinks.
I know people that felt the burn of the URSA12k and FF6K’s sudden and aggressive price drop. It is what it is until its thousands of dollars that suddenly disappear from your pocket. It’s not nothing.
I say all that as someone that happily jumped on the URSA12K when it had its huge price drop, but I feel for the people that missed it by a recently expired return window. And the CINE12K seems just niche and proprietary enough to potentially repeat history.
Time will tell. And I could be totally wrong. I love working with the URSA12K, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a little disappointed in how often I have to rent or use something else as a contractor because the industry never really came around to it outside of some niche slate/vfx work. I get that not every job calls for it, but there are times I’ve had to rent an URSA G2 while my more than capable URSA12K sits on a shelf. Ha. In times like that I’m definitely glad I at least waited long enough to get it at half the launch price.
Up to now they done with the original 12k. The other camera was the first 6k when a new version of the 6k was coming out. Now they are lowering the new 6k because the pyxis is basically the same but with some extras. so they don't lower the price just cause. Soon the will lower the pyxis when the newer end one comes up. Other manufactures also lower prices but they don't come out with newer cameras that often.
Ursa cine 12/17k will make perfect walk around vlogging cameras with that screen 😅
Some vlogger will probably try vlogging with the 17k just to brag about doing it.
The idea of the side screen is great but think about where people normally mount stuff on a cinema camera, it’s right where that second screen is, it doesn’t leave you a lot of space to mount wireless transmission etc.
This is an amazing cinema camera, Its a future proof one. All the features that it packs will come to a good use sooner or later. Let just our hands on it and make a use of it.
Man i feel such a pleb looking at these expensive cameras as i still use the GH5 😅
It would be crazy if they price drop the ursa cine in a year!
👀👀👀
Yeah that would be amazing, but also makes it scary for anyone wanting to buy one because you'd lose a lot of value in the camera, again that is a plus for the Sony almost.
Seems like a burano buyer wants the camera dialed and ready now vs getting the best bang for buck and waiting for updates etc.
Burano is a joke man, for the price it is a even bigger joke
PYXIS PRO with the 4.6k g2 sensor please
Amen!
these are really great thoughts. I agree with everything you said. I think bmd needs something between the 6k stuff and new ursas they went too niche
Agree, there is a massive gap now in the line up.
Always a pleasure but i would urge any review to not make comparison videos focusing on dynamic range or image quality. This is like measuring how long it took for two cars to get from a to b in heavy traffic. The time will be almost identical and not be determined by the car’s potential but the traffic. It is more helpful to focus on whether the journey was pleasant or not. Noone should care how many cylinders the engine block has regardless of being a petrol head. There are no extra points for being able to exceed the speed limit. The focus should be on aircon, in car entertainment and how comfortable the seats are. Remember its not just the driver that will be voting on how the journey was but the passengers along for the ride too. Getting from a to b will be taken for granted but people will remember so many other things when judging whether the journey was fun and something they will want to do again. If the metaphor isnt clear, the decision is not about what the camera is capable of but at a high level almost always on how easy and effortless the process was. This is something that blackmagic have often not understood despite having a great menu UI design. As much as they push up the “maximum speed” on their cameras they simply fail to include an adjustable steering wheel. Im sure your pragmatism will come to the fore as always. Thx as always for the thoughts. Im
👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼
So what is the “actual” cost of a Burano? Batteries and media and EVF?
Actually really close to the listed price, EVF is included. Any one shopping for such an expensive camera will have v mount (unlike the 26V new ones for the URSA Cine) and CF express type B media is super cheap and in my case I already own from my BMCC 6K, mirrorless cameras etc.
Pretty new to one channel, wondering what's your thoughts on Red. Why Sony over a Red Rapter? IBIS?
Welcome 🙌🏼 yeh I would say the main reason I went Burano would be just how it can adapt to different shooting styles. My job type ranges a lot being a small independent production company and it covers pretty much everything. If I shot nothing but narrative work I maybe would have looked into the Red more.
@@OBP_ does it require Catalyst Prepare for this the Burano. Thanks for replying I'm upgrading in July. Researching haha
1:33 what clapboard is that ?
I am thinking about purchasing a BM 12K full frame. My question to you is. How reliable are they?
Great question, something I kept out of the video was I believe in the demo when grant puts it on the desk, I believe it has a "glitchy" side display. This could just be the pro production unit tho.
@OBP_ Thank you, I only had asked you that question. Because you had stated in your video. That you have had 10 years of previous experience. Working with Black Magic brand. So if I am going to spend $15K on just one piece of equipment. I want to search up people with real world experience. I have also watched videos. Where a few people have purchased. Used Arri equipment at $8K or less. And they have had. Very good experiences with them. Which I am seeing as option B. From what I have seen. The images out of each brand of equipment. Looks very good to me. And Arri is using a scanner at 1080 P to boot. Now that say's a lot. About quality over quantity.
The camera is not out yet, lol. Thats how reliable they are. I understand though, you want as much intel asp. But I wouldn't take someones input on something that has never used the camera before.
Brown Amy Hernandez Jessica Lopez Donna
What about Pyxis?
nice video - just so you’re aware the camera can offload directly from the media via usb c and 10gb Ethernet
Yes I am aware, my trouble here would be that I need you need to stop using the camera to offload media, Most cameras can use USB c to back up data but how many times do ppl use that method? There is probably a reason for that.
@@OBP_ I thought that while messaging the comment 🤣
I think for me as a long term Sony user I’m becoming disillusioned with their hamstringing and compromises. Interested in seeing how the other half lives 🙏
i think ill go with the sony as i think the image, ergonomics and overall performance is better. never had a decent time with BM cameras even if it is 12k / 17k
Why must blackmagic die on this BRAW hill? I love BRAW...when I'm the one filming and editing a project from start to finish but it's nowhere near being an industry standard recording codec. I've had shoots where I've just been hired to DP and it's been such a pain for editors to work with. I know BRAW can be read on Premiere (via plugin) and Resolve but not in FCP or the program used to edit major motion features AVID. Why can mirrorless cameras shoot internal pro-res and a cine camera not? Even the Pocket 4K and 6K Pro (maybe G2?) could shoot ProRes internally.
Yes it can be edited in Avid, with the plugin too. It's a very low overhead codec, particularly for raw, and a breeze to work with. Avid editor for 30 years here.
Not a video for amateurs 😂
The mere notion of 12K is utterly ridiiculous. 8K is ridiculous. 6 K is ridiculous. Oh wait, I forgot! People who don't know what they're doing and have absolutely no composition skills need to be able to crop. Damn, what am I thinking. Can't wait for a 24K cam.
Burano = Ouch! At least sell it and get a C400.
Could be a good B camera to the Burano. If there is a good PL mount option for it.
Canon cameras cannot produce cinematic video. Sony produces true cinematic images.
Yeah, its a Misatke!😂
but Burano has autofocus
Plus IBIS and sensors that will be way more sensitive to light 🕯️
dude needs to learn saying letter "T". Only 2.5 seconds in, and BAM "quali'eh". I'm out.
Do you pronounce the letter "T" in English words like ballet, gourmet, rapport, ricochet, buffet, crochet, valet, debut, etc?
@@katlispretty sure he’s one of those people saying "bo’oh ov wa’ah". Are you too?
@@WeyrdSonRecords No, I'm from the US. But my point still stands, there are many English words that are pronounced differently in different accents. Irish, Australian, Jamaican... hell, even state to state. Do you also criticize people with a thick New York accent for pronouncing "straw" as "shrtwor?" Or a Texan saying "have a good naught" instead of "have a good night?" This is where you draw the line?
@@katlis except that saying "quali'eh" (quality), "be'ah" (better), "bu'ah" (butter), "bo'oh ov wa'ah" (bottle of water) or whatever (sorry, maybe I should say "woh'eväh") has really nothing to do with an "accent". It's nothing more than a very recent ridiculous gimmick that popped to sound cool. It's like some LA girls practicing vocal fry so they they can pretend being smart/chill/badass. Anyway, I like the guy's videos, but everytime I hear this, I can't focus on the topic of the video anymore
@@WeyrdSonRecordsit’s called a glottal stop and is not at all recent and is absolutely a regional accent thing. There’s also a link to class, so best not to dump on how people speak.
Blackmagic is trash
I feel the Canon c500 mark ii with a PL adapter is a better option to the Sony Burano. And you still have enough for 3 Sigma cine lens, cards and batteries
Agreed, though it also depends on the market but the C500Mark II is better value.
@@pchuck1439 maybe market in terms of rental. CineD rates both the Burano and Canon C500 mark ii at 13.1 stops of dynamic range. And I have seen movies shot on Canon eos 500 mark ii whose quality is topnotch
@@shridexdigi1982 By the market I mean what Producers, Directors and DPs are asking for & not camera specs. In my market at the high end, they're still asking for Alexa Mini while the Venice gets almost no traction. Mid range it's dominated by Sony fx6 7 fx3 with some Canon. I think because of the price & what it does the c500 is awesome. I think the Ursa G2 and 6k Pro are awesome too but as a working DP I wouldn't buy it because Producers aren't asking for it. Again it depends on the market you're in. I'm looking at the c500 mark II. But there aren't a whole lot being used where I'm at. But it could be great for you in your market.