I'm just starting Sylvaneth and wanted to thank you for the lore videos. Really nice to find a place where I can listen to and catch-up on the lore while I paint and build my army. I will say the idea of identity and memory in AoS are interesting to me was more than 40k because I myself have trauma related amnesia. Its interesting to note that during therapy acknowledging bad things happened, but not digging up the floorboards to remember is just as valid a form of healing as choosing to go spelunking beneath the floodboards for what happened. I think dichotomy of acceptance could provide a great story in AoS. Perhaps a Stormcast and a Sylvaneth detailing the different between how they deal with the lack of memories, their identities in the face of such losses, and the ramifications of when one style fails to help like it should.
Some day Grungni will take back his realm and I can’t wait to see the look on Tzeentch’s minions faces when the Dispossessed march to war unified, wrathful and filled with purpose.
What I like about Alarielle and her counterpart Nurgle is that they perfectly illustrate the "appeal to nature fallacy". The invalid argument of "it is natural so therefore it is good," can be seen in these characters. Alarielle represents an ideal that does not necessarily materialize in the real world and Nurgle represents the examples that expose that use of that fallacy. Hunting and gathering over agriculture, exposure to elements over shelter, migration instead of work... these things could result in a more vibrant living creature, but are much more likely to result in death by disease, infection, starvation, or the elements. Nurgle also explores the ideas behind the other example of the Appeal to Nature Fallacy, 'it is natural so therefore it is bad'. He brings plague and pestilence to established civilizations, showing that the natural world can be your enemy. Together they make a classic dichotomy, two extremes at opposite ends of a spectrum. They remind me of Ares and Athena from Greek Mythology, two gods of war with opposing philosophies: Athena fought wars to liberate but Aries fought wars to oppress. Athena used strategy and intelligence, Ares used emotion and raw physicality. Anyway, I don't play either army but I like the mythology that GW has set up here. AoS has done a really good job and these two characters are my favorite in the pantheon. I don't think the fluff had as much (or any) philosophical significance in WFB. Archetypal characters are the heroes and villains we need!
What I think about Alarielle is she may be a Goodes now, but bevor that she was an Elf. And that shines through. In old Warhammer Fantasy back on Ulthuan, the Elves were very political Creatures. Maybe her Time at the Pheonix Court has made her intriegues. Elves are also very arrogant. So maybe thats why she chose isolation. Like: "If i can't do it, no one can" I personally think it's Important to look at what were the Gods before they became Gods. Not just with Alarielle, but also Sigmar and the others.
You make amazing videos Thank you so much for all the hard work you do! I just wanted to add my two cent, it’s that I don’t know that Alarielle needs to completely fall in line and be 100% loyal to the grand alliance order when they call. I understand her not being completely trustworthy, there is some shady stuff there. But she doesn’t have to be a slave to the rest of the order. We can’t see her long term visions and she’s right to put her own realm as a priority. She failed in its defense and handled it poorly but she would hardly be the most selfish leader amongst the order. We already know they don’t exactly uphold all of their agreements and pacts. It seems to me that when her entire motivating force is preservation of life and that fails, she struggles on what to do next, her entire way of thinking is in jeopardy at that point, she has the burden of being the only god entirely devoted to life, I just think that it’s a complicated and confusing burden for her to bear sometimes. How do you uphold all life especially your struggling race during times of unrelenting war? I don’t think that’s an easy or straightforward question to answer.
I would like to make a note on Alarielle Falling into despair, and not doing anything. I dont know if you ahve ever suffered from depression, (which is what i interpret Alarielles despair as) but let me tell you. It obliterates any energy, strength or willpower you have. It leaves you unable to formulate the very idea that your actions could ever work out or have positive consequences. So if you want me to guess why she did nothing, i think she did that because what ever happened in the veiled season convinced her that she couldnt help. Or perhaps i am projecting my own past depression on another character. I havent read that much lore.
Despite the questionable appearance of some of these actions, I think it falls as a positive in terms of being an order faction, when it comes to both the mind wiping and the secrecy. It is probably very amoral, but Order can easily be that. The Seraphon, being the pinnacle of Order, captures this really well. The best way to view it in my opinion, is that true 100% order is like Jyggalag from the Elder Scrolls. Perfect knowledge and absolute control, everything is timed just right and done just right, no matter how amoral parts of the process is, as any means justifies the end and the removal of chaos. So if Alarielle had to wipe some minds, it might've been for the better. It is however harder to say, as she isn't a Seraphon and has such a rich character.
Great video, but all these points (except the one about doing nothing)you could probably say about Sigmar too. I love that the gods make mistakes and are not perfect. Alarielle also have prevented war with the humans in Gyrahn, even thou they destroyd the woods. The sortstory in MP, Iron and Oak.
Oh there's a lot of charges we can (and will) level at Sigmar ;) but we can still look at Alarielle alone and judge her choices. That MP story is great and I completely forgot to mention it. Thank you for watching and for the thoughtful comment!
This was an awesome video, I have not read any of the AOS books. So you going over the positives and negatives in the gods really helps me develops better opinions of them
I like to think of Alarielle as the mother of all the Sylvaneth, the mother of Ghyran so to speak. I love how she takes so much ownership of her realm and people. This is why I find her isolationist attitude in the Age of Chaos understandable. Her baby was being defiled and ravaged and she just couldn’t bring herself to move on without it. A piece of her soul was just sort of gone. It’s like when a mother loses a child; they just can’t move on afterwards. Sure, the mind-wipe isn’t perhaps the right answer, but it’s the one she probably thought best to keep her children safe. I think she hides the nature of the Spite-Revenants because she doesn’t want her children to think less of her or to see what evil things they could become. My guess is is that she could also be trying to save her forces from actually falling to Chaos of their will, going mad and rending apart those once thought friends. Perhaps a massacre like this happened, where a group of Tree-Revenants turned on their own and became the feral Spite-Revenants. The Shrouded Season was the time in which Alarielle had to go around and bind them to her will and witness their horrors. She decided she should be the only one to carry memory of it, and resolved to prevent another tragedy as best she can...while also weaponizing their fury. Perhaps this disaster is why she had to pull Drycha out-give the Spite-Revenants someone they could rally behind. In using the Kurnoth Hunters, I belief she’s looking for corruption within her own people and Realm. They’re like the Imperium Inquisition and Chaplains from 40K. Sure, it hurts the Noble Spirits to be suspected, but given the events of Shrouded Season (perhaps), Alarielle can’t allow herself to be caught off guard. Her War Aspect, I imagine makes her a more shrewd and uncompromising leader. For as much as her Noble Spirits may now distrust her a little, that may actually be her ploy, if only to keep them equally wary of her perhaps falling to madness, despair, or even Chaos. I truly believe in the goodness of Alarielle. She doesn’t try to sow mistrust or manipulate her people like Morathi does. The people may not agree with her now, but when they understand what she did, they will thank her. It’s kind of like President Ronald Reagan’s role, in that regard...
Perfect response, thank you :) What I like is that they've written a character so well that both sides of the coin are understandable. What you wrote is likely true, but her actions can easily be interpreted as secretive and possibly nefarious. Good stuff :)
My 2nd par favourite faction (idoneth being other par 2nd) great story telling and explaining on your end, good to see drycha hasn’t changed... sort of
Let's be fair - do any of the gods really make consistently good decisions in this setting? You've gone over Alarielle, but Sigmar doomed countless civilisations to defeat by kidnapping their greatest champions during the age of chaos to form his army - it may have been for the greater good, but they have made a thing in recent lore about how many peoples who were still resisting the chaos invasions found themselves helpless due to his actions plus of course, the whole "I'm going to get revenge on Nagash for his betrayal, I'll worry about chaos later" thing was pretty dumb too. Grungni's policy of making his people be self-sufficient meant he didn't help them during the age of chaos, and look! No more duardin empire. Grimnir was so determined not to owe Sigmar he got himself exploded. Nagash - well, I love Nagash, but let's be fair, he's the king of d*ck moves. The aelven gods not only abandoned the pantheon to deal with the capture of Slaanesh, as far as I can tell they keep its capture secret, even from the other forces of Order - what else could be done with a captive chaos god? We'll never know. And of course, the chaos gods tend to be their own worst enemies most of the time, with their infighting and obsessions. I think your comparison with the classical theologies is pretty apt - just like the Greek and Norse mythologies, the gods often just seem to be a main cause of their own problems...
I think her biggest struggle is within herself... She was once the Everqueen and then she merged with Ariel the Avatar of Isha. Which in itself would be incredibly hard as you now have three souls and personalities merged into a single being - Alarielle - Then you take the mindset of a Wood Elf princess, a High Elf Queen and the God of Nature, Life and Healing and try to get them all to find peace together? I'd hate to see inside her poor head...
In the short stories she describes that she can't really remember much of what happened in the World That Was. It's like a hazy, mostly-forgotten dream.
"Do you like those added mysteries and, kind of, potentially nefarious aspects of your god? And what do you think she was hiding during the shrouded season?" So, Alarielle was invaded by Nurgle in her "sanctum sanctorum", and she sworn that "she'll win no matter what", then she did "something", made Nurgle back off, created (and kept) Spite-Revenants, consciously or not, and erased the memory of all Sylvaneth. So, Shrouded Season is her banging Nurgle to make him pull out his smelly forces out of her bushy sacred grove, and the Spite-Revenants are her unwanted children she decided to keep because despite them being a living, shameful, bratty reminder of her past, she still loves them because they are her children. That's why they're so angsty all the time... Oh god, and every Sylvaneth can hear her thoughts and will, her "Season" or whatever. imagine the emotional damage a fucking tree can get when your "mommy" have to do the unspeakable and every single kid on the playground where you reside can hear her and you can't make it stop. Scars for life, man. No wonder she wants to keep it a secret, sexual harassment is no joke. is Shrouded Season a Watchmen Easter Egg?
Maybe during the time when she did the mind-wipe she fell in love with someone she regrets falling in love with and they had some messed-up children because this God or potential lover was secretly evil
I think Allarielle wiped the memories of the Sylvaneth because they rebelled against her. She then created the Huntmaster to act as her watchdog on the council. Her time in Athelwyrd and her depression were a time of mourning the traitorous turn of her children. No proof to back this up obviously. Just a hunch.
Is there more information about the other member of the Royal Moot? "Wherein the High King of Oakenbrow, the Old King of Gnarlroot, the Willowqueen of Harvestboon, the Old King of Winterleaf, the Dowager Queen of Heartwood, the Archduke of Ironbark, the Keeper of Dreadwood" Just their name make me curious :D
Hey Doug, this is totally unrelated to this video, but I have a question for you. How should I paint my Nighthaunt, I don't want to do it like GW does, I would like to make it different. Any ideas?
Depends on what you want them to look like... "not like GW" isnt a scheme, haha. I know for Jess' Nighthaunt we are going to paint them purple instead of that new ethereal green :)
Some of the "Old Hammer" books are really good at helping the reader understand why a character does something. Do the realm gate books paint that picture?? I would be pissed if I learned that a god wiped my memory and my fellow race, especially if it was without concent. Not how she can justify that action for anyone but herself.
Just gobbling up all that lore, thanks man! Hey, can I have your AOS Champions tag so I can challenge you? Lol, no pressure if you’re sketch about putting it out publicly, I totally get it. But it’s your fault I’m playing it, so... Also, I’m terrible at it. But it’s fun! Thanks again for the content. 👌
Is Sigmar supposed to be Odin? I mean... he fights with a warhammer... that he throws and expects to come back to him... and he is otherwise associated with thunder and lightning and interacts with other realms by throwing lightning bolts. Are you /certain/ he isn't Thor?
how would it feel if we could just wipe away all the "bad" things that have happened in our past, all the wars, all the mass murders and deaths in the name of.... all that we can look at now and say it didn't have to be like that. If we could wipe it away like it never happened.... what would the world be like. Is that what Alarielle did?
I'm just starting Sylvaneth and wanted to thank you for the lore videos. Really nice to find a place where I can listen to and catch-up on the lore while I paint and build my army.
I will say the idea of identity and memory in AoS are interesting to me was more than 40k because I myself have trauma related amnesia. Its interesting to note that during therapy acknowledging bad things happened, but not digging up the floorboards to remember is just as valid a form of healing as choosing to go spelunking beneath the floodboards for what happened. I think dichotomy of acceptance could provide a great story in AoS. Perhaps a Stormcast and a Sylvaneth detailing the different between how they deal with the lack of memories, their identities in the face of such losses, and the ramifications of when one style fails to help like it should.
Some day Grungni will take back his realm and I can’t wait to see the look on Tzeentch’s minions faces when the Dispossessed march to war unified, wrathful and filled with purpose.
That would be an amazing campaign!
What I like about Alarielle and her counterpart Nurgle is that they perfectly illustrate the "appeal to nature fallacy". The invalid argument of "it is natural so therefore it is good," can be seen in these characters. Alarielle represents an ideal that does not necessarily materialize in the real world and Nurgle represents the examples that expose that use of that fallacy. Hunting and gathering over agriculture, exposure to elements over shelter, migration instead of work... these things could result in a more vibrant living creature, but are much more likely to result in death by disease, infection, starvation, or the elements.
Nurgle also explores the ideas behind the other example of the Appeal to Nature Fallacy, 'it is natural so therefore it is bad'. He brings plague and pestilence to established civilizations, showing that the natural world can be your enemy. Together they make a classic dichotomy, two extremes at opposite ends of a spectrum. They remind me of Ares and Athena from Greek Mythology, two gods of war with opposing philosophies: Athena fought wars to liberate but Aries fought wars to oppress. Athena used strategy and intelligence, Ares used emotion and raw physicality.
Anyway, I don't play either army but I like the mythology that GW has set up here. AoS has done a really good job and these two characters are my favorite in the pantheon. I don't think the fluff had as much (or any) philosophical significance in WFB. Archetypal characters are the heroes and villains we need!
Very well said nick :) Thank you!
What I think about Alarielle is she may be a Goodes now, but bevor that she was an Elf. And that shines through. In old Warhammer Fantasy back on Ulthuan, the Elves were very political Creatures. Maybe her Time at the Pheonix Court has made her intriegues. Elves are also very arrogant. So maybe thats why she chose isolation. Like: "If i can't do it, no one can"
I personally think it's Important to look at what were the Gods before they became Gods. Not just with Alarielle, but also Sigmar and the others.
An excellent point, she is very "Elfy" in that regard :)
You make amazing videos Thank you so much for all the hard work you do! I just wanted to add my two cent, it’s that I don’t know that Alarielle needs to completely fall in line and be 100% loyal to the grand alliance order when they call. I understand her not being completely trustworthy, there is some shady stuff there. But she doesn’t have to be a slave to the rest of the order. We can’t see her long term visions and she’s right to put her own realm as a priority. She failed in its defense and handled it poorly but she would hardly be the most selfish leader amongst the order. We already know they don’t exactly uphold all of their agreements and pacts. It seems to me that when her entire motivating force is preservation of life and that fails, she struggles on what to do next, her entire way of thinking is in jeopardy at that point, she has the burden of being the only god entirely devoted to life, I just think that it’s a complicated and confusing burden for her to bear sometimes. How do you uphold all life especially your struggling race during times of unrelenting war? I don’t think that’s an easy or straightforward question to answer.
I would like to make a note on Alarielle Falling into despair, and not doing anything.
I dont know if you ahve ever suffered from depression, (which is what i interpret Alarielles despair as) but let me tell you. It obliterates any energy, strength or willpower you have. It leaves you unable to formulate the very idea that your actions could ever work out or have positive consequences.
So if you want me to guess why she did nothing, i think she did that because what ever happened in the veiled season convinced her that she couldnt help.
Or perhaps i am projecting my own past depression on another character. I havent read that much lore.
I agree! And Nurgle is the God of despair. So this makes full sense.
Despite the questionable appearance of some of these actions, I think it falls as a positive in terms of being an order faction, when it comes to both the mind wiping and the secrecy. It is probably very amoral, but Order can easily be that. The Seraphon, being the pinnacle of Order, captures this really well. The best way to view it in my opinion, is that true 100% order is like Jyggalag from the Elder Scrolls. Perfect knowledge and absolute control, everything is timed just right and done just right, no matter how amoral parts of the process is, as any means justifies the end and the removal of chaos. So if Alarielle had to wipe some minds, it might've been for the better. It is however harder to say, as she isn't a Seraphon and has such a rich character.
Extremely well said, thank you :)
Death is true Order. Destruction is true Chaos. Order and Chaos the factions are more convenient middle grounds.
@@grahamtroy9381 I don't argue that the chaos faction embodies chaos very well. But death definitely isn't order, in the slightest.
Great video, but all these points (except the one about doing nothing)you could probably say about Sigmar too. I love that the gods make mistakes and are not perfect. Alarielle also have prevented war with the humans in Gyrahn, even thou they destroyd the woods. The sortstory in MP, Iron and Oak.
Oh there's a lot of charges we can (and will) level at Sigmar ;) but we can still look at Alarielle alone and judge her choices. That MP story is great and I completely forgot to mention it. Thank you for watching and for the thoughtful comment!
Alairelle: *hates Wanderers for leaving her in time of need and refuses to forgive them*
Also Alairelle: *leaves Sigmar at his time of need*
I guess when you're a god it's expected you'll have different standards for your followers and for other gods.
This was an awesome video, I have not read any of the AOS books. So you going over the positives and negatives in the gods really helps me develops better opinions of them
Thank you so much Nick Swinson! So Glad you enjoyed it!
I like to think of Alarielle as the mother of all the Sylvaneth, the mother of Ghyran so to speak. I love how she takes so much ownership of her realm and people. This is why I find her isolationist attitude in the Age of Chaos understandable. Her baby was being defiled and ravaged and she just couldn’t bring herself to move on without it. A piece of her soul was just sort of gone. It’s like when a mother loses a child; they just can’t move on afterwards.
Sure, the mind-wipe isn’t perhaps the right answer, but it’s the one she probably thought best to keep her children safe. I think she hides the nature of the Spite-Revenants because she doesn’t want her children to think less of her or to see what evil things they could become. My guess is is that she could also be trying to save her forces from actually falling to Chaos of their will, going mad and rending apart those once thought friends. Perhaps a massacre like this happened, where a group of Tree-Revenants turned on their own and became the feral Spite-Revenants. The Shrouded Season was the time in which Alarielle had to go around and bind them to her will and witness their horrors. She decided she should be the only one to carry memory of it, and resolved to prevent another tragedy as best she can...while also weaponizing their fury. Perhaps this disaster is why she had to pull Drycha out-give the Spite-Revenants someone they could rally behind.
In using the Kurnoth Hunters, I belief she’s looking for corruption within her own people and Realm. They’re like the Imperium Inquisition and Chaplains from 40K. Sure, it hurts the Noble Spirits to be suspected, but given the events of Shrouded Season (perhaps), Alarielle can’t allow herself to be caught off guard. Her War Aspect, I imagine makes her a more shrewd and uncompromising leader. For as much as her Noble Spirits may now distrust her a little, that may actually be her ploy, if only to keep them equally wary of her perhaps falling to madness, despair, or even Chaos.
I truly believe in the goodness of Alarielle. She doesn’t try to sow mistrust or manipulate her people like Morathi does. The people may not agree with her now, but when they understand what she did, they will thank her. It’s kind of like President Ronald Reagan’s role, in that regard...
Perfect response, thank you :) What I like is that they've written a character so well that both sides of the coin are understandable. What you wrote is likely true, but her actions can easily be interpreted as secretive and possibly nefarious. Good stuff :)
Doug you legend! Just in time for bed!
My 2nd par favourite faction (idoneth being other par 2nd) great story telling and explaining on your end, good to see drycha hasn’t changed... sort of
Let's be fair - do any of the gods really make consistently good decisions in this setting? You've gone over Alarielle, but Sigmar doomed countless civilisations to defeat by kidnapping their greatest champions during the age of chaos to form his army - it may have been for the greater good, but they have made a thing in recent lore about how many peoples who were still resisting the chaos invasions found themselves helpless due to his actions plus of course, the whole "I'm going to get revenge on Nagash for his betrayal, I'll worry about chaos later" thing was pretty dumb too. Grungni's policy of making his people be self-sufficient meant he didn't help them during the age of chaos, and look! No more duardin empire. Grimnir was so determined not to owe Sigmar he got himself exploded. Nagash - well, I love Nagash, but let's be fair, he's the king of d*ck moves. The aelven gods not only abandoned the pantheon to deal with the capture of Slaanesh, as far as I can tell they keep its capture secret, even from the other forces of Order - what else could be done with a captive chaos god? We'll never know. And of course, the chaos gods tend to be their own worst enemies most of the time, with their infighting and obsessions. I think your comparison with the classical theologies is pretty apt - just like the Greek and Norse mythologies, the gods often just seem to be a main cause of their own problems...
Oh I agree, and we'll get into those other gods eventually. But they can all be turds in their own right and we can still judge them individually :P
I think her biggest struggle is within herself... She was once the Everqueen and then she merged with Ariel the Avatar of Isha. Which in itself would be incredibly hard as you now have three souls and personalities merged into a single being - Alarielle - Then you take the mindset of a Wood Elf princess, a High Elf Queen and the God of Nature, Life and Healing and try to get them all to find peace together? I'd hate to see inside her poor head...
In the short stories she describes that she can't really remember much of what happened in the World That Was. It's like a hazy, mostly-forgotten dream.
"Do you like those added mysteries and, kind of, potentially nefarious aspects of your god? And what do you think she was hiding during the shrouded season?"
So, Alarielle was invaded by Nurgle in her "sanctum sanctorum", and she sworn that "she'll win no matter what", then she did "something", made Nurgle back off, created (and kept) Spite-Revenants, consciously or not, and erased the memory of all Sylvaneth.
So, Shrouded Season is her banging Nurgle to make him pull out his smelly forces out of her bushy sacred grove, and the Spite-Revenants are her unwanted children she decided to keep because despite them being a living, shameful, bratty reminder of her past, she still loves them because they are her children. That's why they're so angsty all the time...
Oh god, and every Sylvaneth can hear her thoughts and will, her "Season" or whatever. imagine the emotional damage a fucking tree can get when your "mommy" have to do the unspeakable and every single kid on the playground where you reside can hear her and you can't make it stop. Scars for life, man. No wonder she wants to keep it a secret, sexual harassment is no joke.
is Shrouded Season a Watchmen Easter Egg?
Maybe during the time when she did the mind-wipe she fell in love with someone she regrets falling in love with and they had some messed-up children because this God or potential lover was secretly evil
Find out kurnoth lives in some pocked realm not fully recovered and hes giving her advice and that the hunters r his messengers
I think Allarielle wiped the memories of the Sylvaneth because they rebelled against her. She then created the Huntmaster to act as her watchdog on the council. Her time in Athelwyrd and her depression were a time of mourning the traitorous turn of her children. No proof to back this up obviously. Just a hunch.
Is there more information about the other member of the Royal Moot? "Wherein the High King of Oakenbrow, the Old King of Gnarlroot, the Willowqueen of Harvestboon, the Old King of Winterleaf, the Dowager Queen of Heartwood, the Archduke of Ironbark, the Keeper of Dreadwood" Just their name make me curious :D
Hope she is growing Orion
Do beastmen week
Just got the book on Saturday, its coming!
wow...
Hey Doug, this is totally unrelated to this video, but I have a question for you. How should I paint my Nighthaunt, I don't want to do it like GW does, I would like to make it different. Any ideas?
Depends on what you want them to look like... "not like GW" isnt a scheme, haha. I know for Jess' Nighthaunt we are going to paint them purple instead of that new ethereal green :)
Thanks! I may do it with a purple
Some of the "Old Hammer" books are really good at helping the reader understand why a character does something. Do the realm gate books paint that picture?? I would be pissed if I learned that a god wiped my memory and my fellow race, especially if it was without concent. Not how she can justify that action for anyone but herself.
Just gobbling up all that lore, thanks man!
Hey, can I have your AOS Champions tag so I can challenge you? Lol, no pressure if you’re sketch about putting it out publicly, I totally get it. But it’s your fault I’m playing it, so...
Also, I’m terrible at it. But it’s fun! Thanks again for the content. 👌
Yea! here you go: FDR-XJB-GP
Sweet! Now another person can whip me raw in the game!
Is Sigmar supposed to be Odin? I mean... he fights with a warhammer... that he throws and expects to come back to him... and he is otherwise associated with thunder and lightning and interacts with other realms by throwing lightning bolts. Are you /certain/ he isn't Thor?
how would it feel if we could just wipe away all the "bad" things that have happened in our past, all the wars, all the mass murders and deaths in the name of.... all that we can look at now and say it didn't have to be like that. If we could wipe it away like it never happened.... what would the world be like. Is that what Alarielle did?
trippy lol
It's a bit sad they made the female character emotional and needing to be rescued and made her duplicitous