Glad you mentioned the loctight, lubricant on a fastener decreases friction so when you obtain a certain tourque setting you are getting more clamp load then you would have otherwise with a dry fastener. This is something very much misunderstood in the automotive world as well with people saying "don't antisieze lug nuts, they'll come loose" and actually no when tourqued to the proper spec antiseize will increase clamp load making them less likely to loosen.
I came to guns after 15 years of working on bicycles as a hobby. It's like all the same issues -- torque, lube, etc. -- all over again. I think you guys gave a balanced opinion on the topic.
I used to find I was damaging screws by making them too tight and stripping the heads, or damaging the screw when I removed it. I was afraid of them coming loose under recoil. Since I got a Fat Wrench and use proper torque for the screw, I no longer have that issue. So I guess it's kind of necessary, to protect the screws from me!
As a first responder we had a call yesterday where the left front wheel of vehicle #1 left the vehicle and hit vehicle #2. Vehicle #1's 5 lug nuts were all over the roadway. Apparently two day before he had a company replace that tire. The tire technician must have been a believer of torque specs don't matter.
They didn’t matter as much on steel wheels. You’d just double check them with a lug wrench and let them go. But on all of these aluminum wheels it’s much more critical. Over tightening could stretch the hole in the rim and having it to loose could lead to it coming off completely.
@@H.R.6688 If the stock makes contact with the barrel it could well affect accuracy, so a torque wrench could be useful. If it isn't touching, the torque wrench may not have any effect, but it won't cause any harm, so you're good either way.
This is the same kind of things as electrical connections; all modern electrical components, receptacles, breakers, lugs, etc. have torque specs. I’ve seen a lot of electricians that “know how tight” things need to be, yet when tested most electricians are all over the board. While you can get to a point with an idea, assuming that idea is actually based on torque testing, a torque wrench or screwdriver is a good thing to have for those mission critical components. I’m a part time electrician and a gun smith due to my full time work as our departmental armorer and can say while I don’t always use a torque wrench or screw driver for everything I do in panels and regarding mission critical and safety items like castle nuts, barrel nuts, and scope mounting hardware as proper torquing ensures performance within testing metrics and more importantly repeatability.
That last point was very important. I like to loctite the scope rings on my aimpoint PRO models and I've stripped out a screw in the past. I used a torque screwdriver and didn't over torque it neccesarily, but any type of lubricant makes it easy to over do it.
I am new to this channel and i cant decide whom i like best: Caleb or Steve. They are both so informative and soft spoken, without forcing their opinion on anyone. I do enjoy the content a lot, though, and learn a lot, too, even though i cannot own riffle where i live :).
The mention of thread locker is very important. There’s a difference between dry torque and wet torque values. Like Steve said always go on the lower range with thread lockers. Seen a lot of stripped screws otherwise even though the torque was still within the accepted range. Also with so many things being outsourced to China and crappy suppliers, lots of screws (especially smaller optic screws) aren’t truly rated for the higher end of the torque range and they strip. I always go on the lowest end of torque and then check for any movement. Also prefer VibraTite VC3 instead of Loctite. Let it cure 30 mins before installing the screw.
Literally had to call a manufacturer last week because they didn't include torque specs for their rings. Left me a little baffled as these rings are regularly $125 🤦♂️
I’ve had that happen to me and it’s frustrating. Vortex pro rings print the specs directly on the rings and I wish other manufacturers would follow suit.
When I mounted my red dot to my P365xl I was too impatient to wait for the torque driver I’d ordered from Amazon. I caked blue loctite onto the screws, gave it a good hand tight and then marked a notch mark on the screws to see if they would back out. 1250 rounds later and the screws are rock solid. That being said, now that I have a torque driver, I will follow the inch lb recommendations going forward.
One thing that I’ve seen in my little shop are the occasional, and fortunately rare, instance of someone using pd/ft instead of pd/in. Funny thing, those tiny #6, #8 and #10 screws don’t survive a lot of torque.
I’ve had two Remington Varmint Synthetic and one Remington PSS which all three used a HS Precision stock. One rifle shot best with 65 inch pounds for both front and rear action screws. Another one shot best with 65 inch pounds on the front action screw and 60 inch pounds on the rear action screw. Another one shot best with the front action screw with 70 inch pounds on the front action and 65 inch pounds on the rear action screw. A friend of mine has a first gen FN Police Special Rifle (Winchester Pre 64) with a HS Precision stock and it shoots best with 55 inch pounds on both front and rear action screws. All four rifles use HS Precision stocks with the aluminum beading block. It has to be how well the receiver sits in the beading block. Also I would torque up the action screws to first 25 inch pounds then alternate torquing up in 5 pounds increments going front to rear until the final torque was achieved.
Depends on the screws, as a mechanic. Most screws and bolts that take a 10mm socket or less I won't torque as often they will break. Some I will if they serve a important purpose.
Well. You don't HAVE to hit the brakes at a red light. You don't HAVE to pull the string when you skydive. You don't HAVE to tighten your barrel / gas block to spec.
Just don’t be cheap and buy a good torque wrench. When you install an expensive optic destroying it or when it looses when you need you probably will regret saving that money.
The torque spec is designed to protect the part being fastened and to achieve the tightness most likely to stay tight. It has to do with the amount of stretch metal can take without distorting. Too loose and it will back out, too tight and it will permanently stretch out the metal. Old mechanics never die, they just become exhausted...
Funny that you guys have a savage in front of you. I've tested torque ratings on the front and rear action screws and with a floating tang it indeed matters. I run mine at 35 in lbs on the front and 30 inch lbs on the rear, unlubricated , that seems to be the "happy spot". Although your mileage may vary. Anything put on the threads whether it be loctite, oil, or cobra spit IS a lubricant. Ain't that right Caleb?
Not sure if this has ever been asked .. This concerns the SMLE no. 4 mk 1 rifle and it’s bolt action . I would like to know if this action with it’s variable bolt head choices 0 through 3 or 4 ( not sure about the 4 ) is as some articles state . Needed to be properly set up by a special armorer trained on this specific action . Have you read or heard of this type of statement ? If so , can you explain the specific reasons and processes that it can be accomplished by your viewers ? If you have not , could you research and give your viewers ( including myself ) any information gleaned . I own one with a very sloppy bore . Which I understand was deliberate to be able to work the actions in war time muddy circumstances . My bolt has a 0 screw on bolt head . Which I understand was the shortest . These screw on bolt heads are difficult to find and expensive when available . Trying to avoid replacement of the barrel on an inexpensive rifle . Appreciate any insights that you may have
Here's a really difficult question: since the Ar-15 barrels are too long, torquing the barrel nut requires an offset barrel nut adapter. But this means you are torquing the adapter, which is on a different axis than the barrel nut. How much of that torque actually translates to torquing the barrel nut?
Keep the adapter at 90 degrees to the torque wrench handle, that keeps it on the same axis. There is lots of confusion on this but also lots of info out there explaining it.
@@steveegbert7429 No, it would still be on a different axis. Look at how you torque the bolts on your wheels, or the screws on your scope mount. That's the same axis. The screw, bit, and torque wrench are directly inline so you get an accurate torque reading
@@jonathansmith7306 If the adapter is parallel with the wrench then you will have greater than your setting, likewise if you reverse the adapter to point towards the handle, torque will be less than desired. At 90 degrees (perpendicular to the wrench handle) torque doesn't change.
@@steveegbert7429 Once again, it's still a completely different axis. In fact, the axis is the same distance away no matter how the adapter is oriented. If you offset your car wheels 2" off axis just think of how stupid that would be, and how much torque you would lose
@@jonathansmith7306 I'll have to say just research it for yourself. If you want to use an adapter in line parallel to the wrench, there are formulas to determine your settings. Otherwise, 90 degrees is not going to make enough difference to squawk about. Torque is a product of distance and force.
Just ask the people who put a red dot on their pistol and didn't follow torque specs and it came off in recoil and busted them in the head. It absolutely matters.
Tighten it till it strips, then back off a quarter turn !! Just kidding- get them torque wrenches calibrated every couple of years and don't use 'em for breaker bars !!
I've bought fifteen handguard/barrel nuts over the years. Not once have I received torque values for their barrel nut. General knowledge is 30-80 foot pounds for the barrel nut. If you end up near the upper limit (80 lbs. torque) there is a chance that the barrel extension locator pin can be bent, has happened to me.
I just torqued the base screws on my Romeo5 to the recommended 15-20 inch-pounds and stripped all four. I would have been better off following the alternate instructions of going hand tight plus a quarter turn.
“We’ll take on all comer’s”, well said sir. On one hand you may think this is a closed subject BUT on the other, it is informative to those just getting into firearms. “You don’t know what you don’t know”. ALWAYS ask questions. Thanks guys.
Should explain what "Torque" is first ! Some young guys think that the word torque is a verb ! As example " That won't come loose, I torqued the $hit out of it " And mention bolt pattern when mounting a scope, I thought you were going there when you mentioned cylinder heads. Just my 2 cents.
could you get away without torque specs? sure. Should you skip torqueing things properly? no. Can things go wrong if you over/under torque things? absolutely.
After breaking the heads off screws and needing them drilled out I learned my lesson. Torque wrench forever. Especially on every actions screws (or scopes)
I’m a big fan of doing things right…especially when mounting scopes…thank you for the Loktite/lube thing (plus do yourself a favor and order a FatWrench or equivalent from Brownell’s…you won’t be sorry 🫣)…and remember it’s the blue/green over the red on loctite if you want your future to be “all so smooth” 😊😊😊
Totally agree with y’all coming from a mechanic background both torque value and Sequence is important on specific parts
Especially on a head.
That’s a matter of faith in the motorcycle community.
90% of commercial aircraft part aren’t torqued…even though they are supposed to be.
Glad you mentioned the loctight, lubricant on a fastener decreases friction so when you obtain a certain tourque setting you are getting more clamp load then you would have otherwise with a dry fastener. This is something very much misunderstood in the automotive world as well with people saying "don't antisieze lug nuts, they'll come loose" and actually no when tourqued to the proper spec antiseize will increase clamp load making them less likely to loosen.
Totally agree with ya'll. Normally no, but sometimes yes and it will never be a disadvantage to follow them, so it's best to just always follow them
Always follow torque specs 👍
I came to guns after 15 years of working on bicycles as a hobby. It's like all the same issues -- torque, lube, etc. -- all over again. I think you guys gave a balanced opinion on the topic.
Great comparison! I hadn't thought of the similarities, even the need for cleaning and then relubing
@@nk-dw2hm And the arguments over which lube is best 🤣
I used to find I was damaging screws by making them too tight and stripping the heads, or damaging the screw when I removed it. I was afraid of them coming loose under recoil. Since I got a Fat Wrench and use proper torque for the screw, I no longer have that issue. So I guess it's kind of necessary, to protect the screws from me!
As a first responder we had a call yesterday where the left front wheel of vehicle #1 left the vehicle and hit vehicle #2. Vehicle #1's 5 lug nuts were all over the roadway. Apparently two day before he had a company replace that tire. The tire technician must have been a believer of torque specs don't matter.
They didn’t matter as much on steel wheels. You’d just double check them with a lug wrench and let them go. But on all of these aluminum wheels it’s much more critical. Over tightening could stretch the hole in the rim and having it to loose could lead to it coming off completely.
The best experts to listen to in the business!
I saw a test done on a 10/22 stock bolt, and there was a big difference in the group size based on the torque of the screw.
Wait, really? That’s crazy. Never thought about that
@@nfaisnfgay i think it was fire mountain outdoors that did a video on it? I don't remember, something like that.
Was the stock contacting the barrel?
@@Paladin1873 I'm not sure honestly.
@@H.R.6688 If the stock makes contact with the barrel it could well affect accuracy, so a torque wrench could be useful. If it isn't touching, the torque wrench may not have any effect, but it won't cause any harm, so you're good either way.
Abiding to torque specifications on engine head bolts is a must. A sage mechanic can feel needed torque on most everything else.
This is the same kind of things as electrical connections; all modern electrical components, receptacles, breakers, lugs, etc. have torque specs. I’ve seen a lot of electricians that “know how tight” things need to be, yet when tested most electricians are all over the board. While you can get to a point with an idea, assuming that idea is actually based on torque testing, a torque wrench or screwdriver is a good thing to have for those mission critical components. I’m a part time electrician and a gun smith due to my full time work as our departmental armorer and can say while I don’t always use a torque wrench or screw driver for everything I do in panels and regarding mission critical and safety items like castle nuts, barrel nuts, and scope mounting hardware as proper torquing ensures performance within testing metrics and more importantly repeatability.
That last point was very important. I like to loctite the scope rings on my aimpoint PRO models and I've stripped out a screw in the past. I used a torque screwdriver and didn't over torque it neccesarily, but any type of lubricant makes it easy to over do it.
I am new to this channel and i cant decide whom i like best: Caleb or Steve. They are both so informative and soft spoken, without forcing their opinion on anyone.
I do enjoy the content a lot, though, and learn a lot, too, even though i cannot own riffle where i live :).
The mention of thread locker is very important. There’s a difference between dry torque and wet torque values. Like Steve said always go on the lower range with thread lockers. Seen a lot of stripped screws otherwise even though the torque was still within the accepted range. Also with so many things being outsourced to China and crappy suppliers, lots of screws (especially smaller optic screws) aren’t truly rated for the higher end of the torque range and they strip. I always go on the lowest end of torque and then check for any movement. Also prefer VibraTite VC3 instead of Loctite. Let it cure 30 mins before installing the screw.
That was a good tip. I knew that was an issue with oil and anti-seize, but never considered it with Loctite.
Literally had to call a manufacturer last week because they didn't include torque specs for their rings. Left me a little baffled as these rings are regularly $125 🤦♂️
I’ve had that happen to me and it’s frustrating. Vortex pro rings print the specs directly on the rings and I wish other manufacturers would follow suit.
@@adamarens3520 yeah these were Evolution Gun Works (EGW)
It's also extremely important when dealing with aluminum.
one huge one is overtorqued muzzle device. Saw a SubMOA gun shoot 3 inch groups at 50yds. the barrel at the muzzle gets stretched.
And for a newb mistake I made years ago…ftlbs is not in/lbs 😂😂😂
Never thought about thread locker acting as a lubricant.
When I mounted my red dot to my P365xl I was too impatient to wait for the torque driver I’d ordered from Amazon. I caked blue loctite onto the screws, gave it a good hand tight and then marked a notch mark on the screws to see if they would back out. 1250 rounds later and the screws are rock solid.
That being said, now that I have a torque driver, I will follow the inch lb recommendations going forward.
One thing that I’ve seen in my little shop are the occasional, and fortunately rare, instance of someone using pd/ft instead of pd/in. Funny thing, those tiny #6, #8 and #10 screws don’t survive a lot of torque.
As a mechanic and a machinist, it Absolutely matters, no question.
My MAGNA-TIP® ADJUSTABLE TORQUE WRENCH gets a lot of use .... thank you Gentlemen.
I’ve had two Remington Varmint Synthetic and one Remington PSS which all three used a HS Precision stock. One rifle shot best with 65 inch pounds for both front and rear action screws. Another one shot best with 65 inch pounds on the front action screw and 60 inch pounds on the rear action screw. Another one shot best with the front action screw with 70 inch pounds on the front action and 65 inch pounds on the rear action screw. A friend of mine has a first gen FN Police Special Rifle (Winchester Pre 64) with a HS Precision stock and it shoots best with 55 inch pounds on both front and rear action screws. All four rifles use HS Precision stocks with the aluminum beading block. It has to be how well the receiver sits in the beading block. Also I would torque up the action screws to first 25 inch pounds then alternate torquing up in 5 pounds increments going front to rear until the final torque was achieved.
I was taught to always torque to German specs- guten tight!
DeWalt impact drivers don't have torque indicators, so just set it to maximum.
That loctite tip is excellent.
Good point a put the Loc-Tite
Depends on the screws, as a mechanic. Most screws and bolts that take a 10mm socket or less I won't torque as often they will break. Some I will if they serve a important purpose.
Unless it’s a critical component in the FCG or barrel nut/gas system I use the ole reliable “eeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhh click”
Well. You don't HAVE to hit the brakes at a red light. You don't HAVE to pull the string when you skydive. You don't HAVE to tighten your barrel / gas block to spec.
All manufacturer recommendations and should be followed only as last resort.
Thanks for the information fellas 👍👍
Yes, RTFM and listen to your experienced gunsmith, gun armorer, gun builder.
Thank you!
Great educational content thank you guys
That's why i don't like scope rings with 4 screws. I have seen scopes sighting change ,just buy tightening one screw.
Tighten it till it strips then back off half a turn .
Thank you
Great job 👏
Just don’t be cheap and buy a good torque wrench. When you install an expensive optic destroying it or when it looses when you need you probably will regret saving that money.
The torque spec is designed to protect the part being fastened and to achieve the tightness most likely to stay tight. It has to do with the amount of stretch metal can take without distorting. Too loose and it will back out, too tight and it will permanently stretch out the metal.
Old mechanics never die, they just become exhausted...
Or have calibrated elbows
Loctite in firearms would be a great video!
Twist them until they strip then back 'em off half a turn.
Funny that you guys have a savage in front of you. I've tested torque ratings on the front and rear action screws and with a floating tang it indeed matters. I run mine at 35 in lbs on the front and 30 inch lbs on the rear, unlubricated , that seems to be the "happy spot". Although your mileage may vary.
Anything put on the threads whether it be loctite, oil, or cobra spit IS a lubricant. Ain't that right Caleb?
The only thing I use torque wrenches on is my vehicle. Never my guns that I lost in the boating accident!
demonstrate proper use on torq wrench
Nice looking rifle. What model is that?
The AR15 build giveaway secret word for text doesn't work FYI
Torque it til it strips, then back off a 1/4 turn!
I was just looking for a good torque wrench.
ruclips.net/video/HP4uECoH8cc/видео.html
What about changing the muzzle break? They say that you need to aligned it and have torque of 35 lbs
And don’t use red thread adhesive for scope rings.
What about turning one torque into another torque? You know, a torque converter.
Not sure if this has ever been asked .. This concerns the SMLE no. 4 mk 1 rifle and it’s bolt action . I would like to know if this action with it’s variable bolt head choices 0 through 3 or 4 ( not sure about the 4 ) is as some articles state . Needed to be properly set up by a special armorer trained on this specific action . Have you read or heard of this type of statement ? If so , can you explain the specific reasons and processes that it can be accomplished by your viewers ? If you have not , could you research and give your viewers ( including myself ) any information gleaned . I own one with a very sloppy bore . Which I understand was deliberate to be able to work the actions in war time muddy circumstances . My bolt has a 0 screw on bolt head . Which I understand was the shortest . These screw on bolt heads are difficult to find and expensive when available . Trying to avoid replacement of the barrel on an inexpensive rifle . Appreciate any insights that you may have
Here's a really difficult question: since the Ar-15 barrels are too long, torquing the barrel nut requires an offset barrel nut adapter. But this means you are torquing the adapter, which is on a different axis than the barrel nut. How much of that torque actually translates to torquing the barrel nut?
Keep the adapter at 90 degrees to the torque wrench handle, that keeps it on the same axis. There is lots of confusion on this but also lots of info out there explaining it.
@@steveegbert7429 No, it would still be on a different axis.
Look at how you torque the bolts on your wheels, or the screws on your scope mount. That's the same axis. The screw, bit, and torque wrench are directly inline so you get an accurate torque reading
@@jonathansmith7306 If the adapter is parallel with the wrench then you will have greater than your setting, likewise if you reverse the adapter to point towards the handle, torque will be less than desired. At 90 degrees (perpendicular to the wrench handle) torque doesn't change.
@@steveegbert7429 Once again, it's still a completely different axis. In fact, the axis is the same distance away no matter how the adapter is oriented. If you offset your car wheels 2" off axis just think of how stupid that would be, and how much torque you would lose
@@jonathansmith7306 I'll have to say just research it for yourself. If you want to use an adapter in line parallel to the wrench, there are formulas to determine your settings. Otherwise, 90 degrees is not going to make enough difference to squawk about.
Torque is a product of distance and force.
Yup I can’t believe that people buy expensive rifles and scopes and just hand Tighten the rings
German torque is gutten tight.
Hi
Hey guys, what is going on with the website? I keep getting told the site is down and getting redirected to the Europe website.
Just ask the people who put a red dot on their pistol and didn't follow torque specs and it came off in recoil and busted them in the head. It absolutely matters.
Jajaja it happened to me in a closed range, so embarrassing!!
@@erickmartinez4045 Oh that sucks 😞
Don’t have a torque wrench for my castle nut, tightened I down as best I can. Will it come loose?
Probably not. You can stake in place with a punch.
Torque wrench, need no stinking Torque wrench....anyone know where I put my EZ out for broken screws...😆😆😆
Go out, buy a "fix it sticks" Torque set for ~$110 and leave it on your range bag. It WILL pay for itself
That's what they're for.
Tighten it till it strips, then back off a quarter turn !! Just kidding- get them torque wrenches calibrated every couple of years and don't use 'em for breaker bars !!
+ or - 10% of all fasteners torque spec is okay.
I hate the guys that tighten it till it breaks then back off 1/4 turn. 😊
I've bought fifteen handguard/barrel nuts over the years. Not once have I received torque values for their barrel nut. General knowledge is 30-80 foot pounds for the barrel nut. If you end up near the upper limit (80 lbs. torque) there is a chance that the barrel extension locator pin can be bent, has happened to me.
Out of all corners the cut for the love of God do not be lazy on your torque specs,
I just torqued the base screws on my Romeo5 to the recommended 15-20 inch-pounds and stripped all four. I would have been better off following the alternate instructions of going hand tight plus a quarter turn.
Torque specs...it's best if you DO follow specs.
Screw Lives Matter! Respect the torque specs :)
Snug and a bump
Just use German torque..."gutentight".
🙂👍☕☕
👍🏻👍🏻☕️☕️🇺🇸🇺🇸💯🛎
German torque
“We’ll take on all comer’s”, well said sir. On one hand you may think this is a closed subject BUT on the other, it is informative to those just getting into firearms. “You don’t know what you don’t know”. ALWAYS ask questions. Thanks guys.
@TEXT+① (④①②) ③⓪①-⑤①⑧⑥ Who are you ?
A good torque wrench is one of the best gun related purchases I've made
Good investment for aluminum wheels too… on just about anything.
Always follow the manufacturer's recommended specs.
🥱
I’m a directions guy. I read manuals. I read instructions. If it says torque to a certain amount, that’s what I do. Pretty simple. Common sense
Should explain what "Torque" is first ! Some young guys think that the word torque is a verb ! As example " That won't come loose, I torqued the $hit out of it " And mention bolt pattern when mounting a scope, I thought you were going there when you mentioned cylinder heads. Just my 2 cents.
And always remember to check the nut behind the trigger.
Short answer: "Goldilocks tight..."
My ocd won't let me ignore the torque specs. It's just feels better psychologically.
could you get away without torque specs? sure.
Should you skip torqueing things properly? no.
Can things go wrong if you over/under torque things? absolutely.
Instead of a measurements it should say "finger tight", "snug", "tight", and "hella tight". At least that's how my brain translates it
You didn’t need a 4min video for this. All you had to say was YES!!! Duhhhh!!!
Is there a best bang for the buck torque wrench/driver for diy folks?
You guys are supposed to be professionals and you didn't even bring up ugga duggas. I'm beyond disappointed.
I like the German Torque Setting 'Guttentight'
Do you have to? of course not. should you? If there is a torque spec there is probably a reason for it, and its probably a good idea.
You count the uga dugga's of the impact.
Somebody spiked Steve's coffee
@1:53 wait you guys use torque wrenches when you work on your cars now😅
yes, you should.
Great stuff
Definitely for bedding screws and scope mounting.
After breaking the heads off screws and needing them drilled out I learned my lesson. Torque wrench forever. Especially on every actions screws (or scopes)
I own that very same Brownells torque wrench seen in this video.. I like things being repeatable..
I’m a big fan of doing things right…especially when mounting scopes…thank you for the Loktite/lube thing (plus do yourself a favor and order a FatWrench or equivalent from Brownell’s…you won’t be sorry 🫣)…and remember it’s the blue/green over the red on loctite if you want your future to be “all so smooth” 😊😊😊