Smyth Busters: How Important Is Proper Firearm Terminology?
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Firearms are complex technical devices, with a lot of technical terms to identify their various parts. But is it necessary to be picky about using the exact "right" terms? Our intrepid Smyth Busters, Brownells Gun Techs™ Caleb and Steve, weigh in with their thoughts on this messy topic. Using the correct terminology is good and necessary up to the point where somebody nitpicks about terms just to "one up" another person. When Caleb was a gunsmith in a retail gun store, and a customer asked for a "clip" for his Glock, he helped the person find the right Glock magazine and didn't lecture him on the difference between a clip and a magazine. What IS the difference between a MAGAZINE and a CLIP? The guys explain. Clips and magazines hold cartridges (or rounds), not bullets. Technical terms certainly DO matter if you need ammo for your .38 Special revolver and order "bullets," only to be surprised when you get a box of bullets alone, without the rest of the cartridges!
Then there is the AR-15 "buffer tube" vs "receiver extension" debate. Receiver extension is technically correct, but even pro gunsmiths like Steve and Caleb are OK with calling it a buffer tube. Turns out the myth is not busted - using the correct terminology DOES matter in many situations. But let's be tolerant when somebody uses the "wrong" term. Now, what is the correct pronunciation of Heckler & KOCH?
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I once bought a half case of "9mm rounds" on GB and was very glad about the deal; it was listed under "ammunition" category, not "reloading supplies". Sure enough, I received a box of 500 bullets.
That's how I got introduced to reloading.
Lmao I wanna start reloading my own ammo will it pay it self off in the long run ?
@@2047theway Common opinion is, "no, it won't save you money, but you will be shooting more".
@@steveturners1258 say less
@@2047theway It depends on how much you shoot, but it generally will pay off.
If you shoot a 50 round box of handgun ammo per month, it's not worth it, but if you go shooting pretty often, reloading can be quite a bit cheaper than buying factory ammo.
lol you should thank GB
My Springfield Model 1861 was the "assault rifle" of it's time. The only time I really ever get the red ass about terminology is when a politician or anyone else uses inappropriate terms simply to scare people whom don't know about the subject.
"Get the red ass".....I love that and I will steal it and use it.
You could just buy the Bushmaster "assault rifle"... But they are terrible and you might get red assed using it.
It's "who don't know about the subject" you jackanape! Oh ... now I get the point of this video, thanks Smyth Busters (sorry Hazakdds)
Speaking of terminology there is a time to and a time not to use ‘whom’. That was definitely a time not to use it.
My dad always said, if yer gonna be stupid, be smart stupid. I tried.
Terminology matters. Years ago I ordered a box of bullets thinking it was a good deal... I was not pleased with myself when I got the order delivered... lol
In Basic Training I was constantly doing push ups as punishment for calling my "Rifle" a "Gun".
The common wisdom at the time was that a "Gun" was an artillery piece of some type and that
my issued rifle was just that: a Rifle. To this day when I hear people refer to "Common Sense Gun
Laws", or " I need a gun for home defense" I have a burning desire to shout out "NO! IT'S A RIFLE!"
Be well each of you 🙂.
I was taught to call it a weapon, because women call them guns.
This is my rifle, this is my gun. One is for shooting... Never mind.
.45 Colt being called .45 Long Colt always gets me. 😂
Old army training videos for the 1911 firearm and even old Colt ads called the 1911 magazine a "clip". Glad to see the terminology refined and used correctly. Don't be a jerk about correcting people, especially noobs, shooters need to be supportive of others in the gun community since there are too many anti-gun types. I personally don't care for "black guns" but always honor somebody that does. Stay safe!
I agree. I have 2, two LIFE bans from web gun/tactics forums 💻. The gun culture, community can get a few snobs, whackos & mall ninjas. Some points you can correct, like a revolver or a pistol, or what is a shotgun, rifle, handgun. I avoid the cranks and nutbars.
That is exactly the issue people using wrong terminology and/or slang terms, become accustom to and after a while don't know any better and then use the term to others, who think they are the gun guru. Just like someone continuing to practice the wrong technique it becomes ingrained muscle memory, where at some point they don't know any better either. Just continues the problem until as they pointed out becomes acceptable.
Clip has always been considered the proper term, this is just modern bs by the Tide Pod eater generation , all gun companies called them clip models for years , check out any old add
@@robertboyd3863 Your crazy clip was a term used and made popular by military which was used as a clip feeds a magazine it's not a magazine even those people may realize what your saying doesn't make it correct just like some people may know when someone's says I pulled the BANG SWITCH instead of trigger. Seriously dude you suffer from immense Cognizant Dissonance you need to get educated. As an attorney is court of law would use your lack of knowledge against you and your credibility would be NILL. Clip was never considered a proper term except you those now will to learn proper term. Just as people refer to semi Automatics as Automatics or Armilte Rifle as Assault rifle and not knowing the difference between an M16 or an AR 15. Seriously dude your making a fool out of yourself. I know it's April Fools day but seriously.
It was used correctly at the time. The distinction is a more modern matter.
When I was taught to tear down and rebuild an M16 it was called a buffer tube by the armorers. So that's the only way I will say it myself.
Super important! My entire family calls magazines, clips, just to drive me nuts. The sad part is it really works 😅
So did all the old gun writers and all the gun companies,
Well tgecterns were interchangeable until not that long ago, relatively.
After the classroom portion of a pistol class, we went to the shooting range to shoot. When we got to the line and it was time to load, one of the students raised his hands indicating a problem. He showed me his box of 9mm bullets -- cartridges -- bullets! I asked him that he asked the gun counter for. His answer, "I told him i needed 9mm bullets. I said, "Well that's exactly what they sold you."
I agree, don't be a jerk about terminology. But, is does matter.
Last year i watched a guy come into my LGS with a list of bullets he wanted. He rattled of 38, 30-06 and several others even telling them the weights he wanted. He left only to come back a little while later after opening every box and berating the shop owners for selling him bullet heads instead of bullets. He was even more pissed when they told him they didn't have any of the ammo he wanted and good luck finding any.
That dude probably thought he got a great deal!
@CLOV4R713 imagine my confusion when asked if "they make extendos" for a specific gun, or "is there a beam for my hand shotgun"
@CLOV4R713 Not dumb. Just ignorant. There's a difference.
Gun shop clerk: Malicious compliance.
There for a while, I saw several shops have papers on the shelves in the reloading section saying they were bullets, not loaded ammo because people kept buying boxes of bullets instead of ammo.
Same here!
@@LAT-qk3vj yeah I think it was from the new gun owner crowd, that just didn't know. I actually help a guy with that not long ago. We gotta be helpful to these people instead of make fun of em, or else they think all the bs and stereotypes is true.
I don't get why they don't use the term "projectiles" instead.
People will use bullets and cartridges interchangeably, they're not going to use projectiles interchangabley.
I actually helped a customer find a "picante" rail for their rifle once....
ROFL.
A spicy rail you might say.
I am 67 recently watched a young man field strip a 1911 on RUclips. I just had to smile the 😊 the slide was a upper the frame was the lower. Thanks smyth busters love your videos. Bern Collins
You guys should have shown a Enbloc clip for the M1 Garand, I believe that is were the WW2 vets got the idea of calling every magazine a clip, at least every one I've talked to.
Clip has been the accepted term for many years, I believe long before that
The terms were interchangeable at that time, and for a few decades afterward. The recognized distinction between the two has only been in the last couple of decades. Just read older gun literature and patents. Technically clips were patented as magazines and vice versa, meaning they are what they were proper named.
There's no need to be a jerk to anyone unless they're doing it to you. I work Industrial Maintenance and terminology is of a great importance. If you tell me you need "x" and I bring you or order you "y", the whole plant could be shut down.
It's virtually the same concept in the gun community. If you allow people to go around being either ignorant or outright wrong, it just makes things worse for us all and encourages misrepresentation of us and guns in general. An educated person is much harder to control and manipulate than someone that is uneducated in a subject matter.
I agree, I typically just use the correct word in my response unless they're being rude or giving someone else incorrect information that could be dangerous.
I agree, I did a 40 year career in building maintenance engineering. Problems nearly always occurred when improper terminology was used; it made communication difficult at best. I was almost always someone of higher authority, thinking they knew what they were saying;they did not! But how does one tell the boss's, boss's, boss he's ignorant and does not know what he's talking about? To get around that I'd ask if they could tell me the issue as succinctly as possible and I'll take care of it!! Proper communication is also a safety issue!
Yes / No In some cases yes, in others no. It doesn't matter what someone calls a Clip / Mag but as you stated, hook up the red wire to the right and the white wire to the left that can be a big problem. I know people that have very little education that are far smatter than people with many degrees. Being old school and calling a mag a clip doesn't make a problem. Just like calling a bullet a cartridge, very, very few people walk in a store and asks for 9mm cartridge, 99.9 % of the time, do you have 9mm bullets. In fact I can't every recall someone asking for a 9mm cartridge, it's always bullets, they are not the same but used. Here in my State they would look at that person a little funny if they ask for cartridge. Bullets, cartridge, ammo, Mag / Clip to many it's all the same.
@@michaelellis3091 you couldn't be more correct. Those saying it doesn't matter don't seem to have worked with people that don't speak English, or at least speak it well enough to communicate instructions and things regarding safety. This is a huge problem in regards to safety. Since we're discussing guns and guns require the utmost safe behavior, I would think that proper terminology would be imperative.
This includes letting people know that a silencer and suppressor are the exact same thing.
My pet peeve is the fact that before the internet made everyone into 2 minute experts everyone and their mother who wasnt a gunsmith or dealer used magazine and clip interchangeably. The only people who cared about the difference were the ones ordering them over the phone from their distributor and NEEDED to care about it.
Right on
The definition of having a spring and follower is the perfect explanation
That was simply nonsense
I believe proper terminology is important. It saves on confusion.
The one thing I've noticed the past few years is people are calling the added flared piece to a mag, a mag well. It was my understanding the mag well has always been in existence. The flared mag well addition has now become the "mag well"
you guys should do a longer weekly podcast
My instructor always says we don't, "load" magazines, we, "fill" magazines. There could be a BIG difference between what a student does behind the line that may be WAY more dangerous and only because the instruction was misinterpreted due to terminology.
As if you could pour cartridges into the magazine the way you would from a pitcher
@@TheSundayShooter that would be nice!
3:47 Well, this is the 1st time I ever heard anyone call it a receiver extension.
thank you for asking people to not be jerks
My favorite terms are "shoulder thing that goes up" and "30 caliber clips".
Fully semi-automatic!
There's a clip vs mag meme/image someone made years ago (technically before meme was a thing) and has gone through most if not all the gun forums. It has result in many online flame wars. I once made an image of an SKS with a 40 round "clip" that extend to the bayonet, that went over really well....
My least favorite terminology of late: "Common Sense Gun Laws". Usually flung around by those with absolutely no idea what common sense means (or is).
Plus, something could be common sense and still be wrong. Common sense is wrong all the time; that's why we have the scientific method, among other things.
Those are the same people who coined the phrase , "Gun Violence".
“Common Sense Gun Laws” is leftist CODE for “whatever we can ban at this time.”
EXACTLY
I keep seeing MSRs Modern Sporting Rifles. 🙄 99% of gunners, hunters say semi auto rifle or M4, M14, M16...
Does it always matter, no.
Does it sometimes matter a lot, yes!
Since it sometimes matters a lot it's best to use the correct terminology. It takes the same amount of effort to say it right or wrong.
"This is my rifle. This is my gun. My rifle is for fighting, my gun is for fun."
Haha
When one is writing laws, and/or discussing laws, proper terminology is critical because so much depends on the placement of a comma or the definition of a word. Forcing politicians to use correct terminology is important for just this reason. (cf Shoulder goes up thing)
Since John Browning called them clips and silencers, I can too!
My pet peeve-absolutism!
They are silencers. Is what it says on the patent and the form 4.
They were always called clips in the past
The one I do step up to is when I hear "Assault Rifle"...
Some situations demand clear communication that seeks to avoid misunderstanding. Most other situations can easily afford less formality.
bullets and clips annoy gun enthusiasts so much because the anti gun media uses these terms and it couldn't be more clear how little they know about they subject they're 'reporting' on
Proper terminology matters alot....as a black gun owner for years I been trying to educate some of my fellow black gun owners that it's a magazine not a damn "clip"........clip is a slang word used by rappers who don't know 💩 about weapon terminology or even proper weapon handling.....Saying it's okay to call a magazine a clip makes it hard for me to change the image of black gun ownership.......I'm not as hard on people when it comes to bullet vs cartridge
grandpa told me ''clip'' comes from the gangster days when someone would get clipped.
@@SpyderRTL2022 Well there is also clip loaded magazines. But a lot of people call magazines clips because they don't know what they are talking about.
Chris 2A Gear Review's I take it you are a newer gun owner for a few years? It was very common in the Vietnam war to hear Banana CLIP. That carried on for many years. Yes even combat Vets called them CLIPS. Doesn't make it right, it's was just slang for mag as stated here. Some of us older people fully get it.
@@arlissyoung8899 I wouldn't say new gun owner but for about 5-6 years I've grown in my firearm knowledge......thanks in part to RUclips and the wealth of proper 2a knowledge it has......
@@arlissyoung8899 but you are correct ....the Vietnam era started the use of clip once the black soldiers came back.....that was right around the time maybe a few years sooner when hip hop became more mainstream
Happy to see this is where most people are starting to land. The magazine/clip debate does not matter, clip is just a slang term for mag. Does it have actual meanings? Yeah, so does half the rest of our slang. Bullets/cartridges are a bigger deal. I can't even correct other people anymore because I don't know how to do it without sounding like a jerk! The gun community is so welcoming......
The silencer vs suppressor vs muffler debate always makes me chuckle. Praise be to Mr. Maxim lol!
With law and bureaucracy in matters a ton, but elsewhere if we know what you mean it matters little.
Ejector vs. extractor. People use these interchangeably, and I believe there is an importance in using the correct term in those cases.
As a German engineer, of course proper terminology is important.
Magazin.
I always try to use the proper terminology and all I get are blank stares from those young salespersons at gun stores.
That’s why I watch your videos , thanks guys!
To people on the internet, not being a jerk is FAR FAR less important than proving you're the smartest guy in the room.
Communication is more than just terminology but proper terminology helps communication especially among people that are either low information or particularly precise, ie aspy.
Having precise language cam be of great help, but sometimes people are less uhhhh in the moment we'll say and need all the help they can get.
You can't expect every gun/firearm owner to also be a youtube enthusiast of gun channels.
Don't forget some people are precise only when they can be dominant and rude to others. Don't be that guy.
Excellent point: Don't be a jerk about it. People get absolutely apoplectic about calling a magazine a clip, but if you'll go to early autoloading pistol ads, you'll see the ads themselves referring to magazines as clips or "clip magazines." I didn't realize that a buffer tube was anything but a buffer tube, so I learned something new. And the latest controversy; is it a "silencer" or a "suppressor?" Put it all in the MAAN file: Much Ado About Nothing! 😉
1:57 in Spanish (at least Mexican Spanish) I've only heard magazines referred to as "cargadores" which translates to "chargers" so it makes sense now
The thing about magazine vs clip is for a long time they really were interchangeable, there are firearm patents that transposed the terms. The standardization of the terms was a long time coming, and agreed, usually isn't a big deal.
Clip vs magazine in the gun world is like rim vs wheel in the car world and is the source of needless chatter.
Nomenclature is first used to condense meaning. Often its used to alienate.
I work at a gun store and I do exaclty what this man says find hand it back and say hears your magazine
Love these videos LOL. Fun to see you both hammin' it up. Thanks for taking comments. VERY BASED
Glock mags are only called clips on RUclips short videos when inner city gangsters are showing off their new 33 rounders in a cloud of blunt smoke.
Pistol or revolver? Gun or rifle? My wife laughed at me when I said I needed new furniture for my AK. Oh and carbean or carbine? English is funny. Oh, and sycro sip - not bad, just shy of 9 but have to go 8.5.
I'd say it goes with upbringing and who you are interacting with. I use magazine or mags but my brothers say clips. We all know what we mean because we all have mag fed firearms but we never buttheads for using incorrect terms. However in a setting that's more formal or from an authority figure correct terminology should always be used.
Customer: “do you have 115 grain 9mm bullets?”
The one time I get picky with customer verbiage (not mean, just picky). The answer is usually yes (because we have both) but usually customers aren’t asking for reloading components so I ask them to be specific
Nooo fellas that tube is the buffer retainer retainer... It retains the buffer retainer...
Now what is a link!!! When us gunsmiths dont know what to call a part we just name it after the dude from Zelda!
Yes
Ghost gun, fully semi automatic, high capacity magazine, and assault weapon.
Some magazines can be loaded with clips but not the other way around. A suppressor is moderately successful at silencing a blaster. A Muffler is part of an exhaust system,,,
Let's not forget about the clip on the M! Garand, oh and Barney Fife only had one bullet for his pistol and he had to keep it in his pocket. I've heard some competition pistol shooters have a "Barney mag" with one round in it so when they are told to make the gun ready they get the one in the chamber and then a full magazine.
context is always key, if you're reloading, differentiating is key because you're handling individual parts. But in most situations the only really important part is the case and the bullet, and the bullet is the part that puts holes in people so that's what the typical person is thinking of when they're talking about cartridges. And so, as language always does, we simplified the long awkward word cartridge for the word bullet. But if you understand what they're meaning then to correct them is really not important.
Funny story.... I was at Sportsmans Warehouse buying 55gr BULLETS , and the clerk felt it necessary to advise me that I was only buying bullets, not completed cartridges. Because MORE THAN ONE person has returned items, when they discovered that they had only purchased the PROJECTILE! I think I may have peed a little, laughing so hard !!!
Got a ton of old gun mags (the paper kind) from the '70's. In about every issue, one or more writers talk about the "clips" that go in their firearms, even Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton, and more. Nobody cares. What gets to me now is the number of "know-it-alls", who want to chastise people for saying "trigger pull", and not "press". I don't press my triggers, I pull on them!
They have always been called clips, this is simply nonsense from the tide pod generation
@@robertboyd3863 Stubborn ignorance and sad insults from the Market Crasher generation. And before you assume, no, I was not born in the tide pod era of Gen Z
If someone is arrogantly presenting as if they are a gun "expert" and uses wrong terminology, sometimes a correction may be required. Otherwise I say it really doesn't matter as long as you know what they mean. That us unless you know they are trying to learn, then you could politely inform them of the proper terminology.
I have never heard it called a receiver extension, I do know that Colt and the U.S. Military call it a buffer tube!
One of my biggest firearm term pet peeves is the term assault rifle. It was not started by Hitler with the strumgewher unlike what countless people say. The strumgewher is literally called storm rifle and if Hitler named it the assault rifle it would be called the angriffgewher not the strumgewher. And aside from the Bushmaster Assault Rifle about the only people that ever originally used the term were the anti-gun nuts of the late 80s and early 90s. They used both the term assault rifle and assault weapon to demonize firearms to push the gun ban. I am old enough and paid enough attention to actually remember that crap. If I spend twenty years calling Rottweilers and Dobermans assault dogs that does not magically make them assault dogs.
0:33 - the need to translate what is said into what it really is: like how people say "neck tension" while what's actually being measured is neck compression. So as long as enough people are doing something wrong, it's Ok. Or "that's the way it's been done for years", so perpetuating the mistake is acceptable.
My argument is to just be MORE correct. Yes, you can say clip instead of mag, and most people will know what you mean. But its MORE correct to say magazine. People should make an attempt to not be lazy, be the most correct you can be, and leave it at that.
I think it depends on if a smarty counter salesman wants to show off and teach you a lesson by giving you the supposed wrong item that you asked for.
I'd like to buy some full metal hollow-point boolets so I can load the clipazine for my pump action full semi-auto revolver with a silencer.
It matters only so far as the person doesn’t know what the thing they talkin about does and the context. I have friends that are in Europe and work on firearms and gunsmithing and often say “clip” referencing a magazine. But they fully know what a magazine is and the technical definition. In a circle of folks that know and not exposing strangers … it’s fine within context
Shells vs cartridges
I was waiting to see the en bloc clip for the M1 Garand.
Well contrary to popular belief in modern day, correcting someone whenever they are wrong about what they call an item is not offensive.... It's not argumentative.... It's not degrading. The way I look at it it's better if someone calmly explains the difference, so they know for future reference. Before they get belittled and made fun of in the future by someone who's bound to do that.
🤺 Funny how this "improper" terminology has been around for decades, but only became a big issue with the advent of the internet - well, at least with some on the internet. Most of the rest of us are intelligent enough to understand within the context.
When did this whole clip vs mag BS start? Fifty years ago, the command in a NMC pistol match was always "slides back, clips out, cylinders open". If you call it a Glock magazine, then you're putting a Glock magazine into a Glock's magazine.
How About AMMO instead of bullet? I want 38 Special Ammo ...
Correct!
Yeah, I usually say ammo or rounds of ammo. Cartridges just doesn't roll off the tongue for me as naturally as just saying ammo
The correct terminology usually indicates knowledge. What has become unfortunate is inexperienced shooters repeating the same incorrect terms and starting to believe those are correct. Pet peeves: casings are on hotdogs, cases hold components; groupings are selections of like items, people shoot for groups; heads are not bullets. Just for fun when you get the “expert” who knows all about guns ask them these questions. Please tell me what obturate means and what does the word meplat relate to?
When it comea to law or teaching people, yeah it's important. If it's casual fun at the range, I don't care.
We in the gun community need to get more people involved in our community. Making new gun owners feel stupid doesn’t help the cause.
Exactly!
Not sure how they would feel stupid. If they are new to guns, there is a lot for them to learn.
@@jimpatro Like the guy from Brownell’s said, some people can be jerks about terminology. I’ve seen it at gun shows, some guys actually get pissed off if you for instance, call a magazine a “clip”.
In my opinion, very important.
Fifty years behind the bead and yes, it matters. It matters because it's important to be accurate and clear.
THANKS!
30 round Clipazines... And buffer extensions
good show guys!
If there is a possibility of confusion regarding your meaning, then yes, terminology matters greatly. But if the person you are talking to knows exactly what you are talking about, then bingo, you communicated effectively.
Banana magazine instead of Banana clip for AK's right?
You didn't mention Clipazines! 😆
I get mad when the media or news stories say clip instead of magazine because they’re propagating the wrong terminology to a large audience. Reporters should be held to higher standards because lots of people listen to them (and in some cases trust them), so they need to get things right.
Buuut, they broadly don’t care about being accurate or correct.
"I'm looking for a clip for a Glock 19"
"yes sir, our magazines are over this way if you want to follow me"
So you're promoting the proper terminology without actually calling someone out.
The only time I've ever called someone out is when they have argued with me about it.
I call it a "Guided High Speed Lead Accelerator" y'all say gun.
I'm going to go buy me a bunch of clips, thanks guys
People who insist that a revolver is not a pistol really irritates me. The word pistol was common in the 1880s and in fact a gunslinger was known as a pistolero in some places.
The incorrect use of Assault Rifle is my pet peeve.
Proper Gun Terminology Is VERY Important.
Using The Wrong Terminology Means You Don't Know What You're Talking About.
Man I love your videos. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👌👌👌👌🤜🤛
Buffer and recoil spring housing.
If you are in a situation where you have both "clips" and "magazines", it would be very important to use proper terminology, and you can tell people, primarily military, who have worked in those situations, because they are very particular about it.
Proper terminology is IMPORTANT, whether the topic is firearms or gardening implements, or virtually anything else. It's a kindness to help others learn proper terminology, especially when it's done in a kindly manner. (Smart-asses need not apply.)
Like calling internal combustion ENGINES “motors”
Do you laugh when you hang up the phone after this happens?🤣🤣🤣🤣
50 years ago gun writers cried and slung snot when shooters referred to 45 Colt as 45 Long Colt even though ‘Long Colt ‘ lessened confusion. Now 45 Long Colt is often stamped on the gun barrel and ammunition boxes at present. ‘Clip ‘ is one syllable and easily spoken . If someone says clip for a 1911 , Beretta 92 or Glock auto pistol seasoned shooters know what they mean .Notice that I typed ‘ auto ‘ pistol instead of semiautomatic pistol. Glock manufacturing has referred to their guns as auto pistol.
Man I love my 30 round clips for my assault rifle 15
But what about the shoulder thingy that goes up? You know a barrel shroud. You know you can take someones opinion about what should be legal when they correctly identify a fully-semi-auto assualt ghost gun with .30 caliber clips capable of furing 4,000 heat seeking incendiary bullets a second.