Thank you for a great vlog , I have a 80mph swing speed with my 7 iron 718 mb s , when I go for a fitting session I always get fit for a light shaft , but when I get my 718 mbs out that have s300 and I hit them better , but no fitter can tell me why , after watching this it's made me realise why I get on better with s300 then lighter shafts , I'm and ex boxer and quite big built and I think I find a heavier shaft feels better over a lighter shaft , Ty Mark ⛳
Spot on, Mark......I've found that the heavier shafted clubs at demo helped the club slot easier for me...... It felt like I had to manipulate my hands more with the lighter shafted clubs in order to maintain centered strikes on the face.
I like this good information. I experienced the same on a ping demo day. My local club looked at swing speed and suggested reg flex standard weight but at the demo day tried heavier shafts and i felt so much more comfortable with them, felt like i could feel where the club head was and my Dispersion came down.
Shaft flex is more about feeling. Feeling probably has something to do with timing and sequencing of swing. I try to hit my irons at 80% of max. I got fitted a few years ago for Mizuno JPX 850 forged irons and KBS C-Taper LITE in S. Absolutely love them.
Another interesting look at shafts and challenging some of our beliefs. I play a regular shaft in my Cobra F6. However, I have hit drivers with a stiff shaft (such as the Srixon 545) and hit the ball the same carry distance and as straight.
Interesting video. I wonder if the difference is greater between light/heavy shafts if the swing speed is slower. I had a club head speed of 67 mph (7) with a 100g steel and it went up 10 mph with a 65g graphite shaft with a quiet different (higher) ball flight.
Good video,Mark. thank you. I am just about to get my clubs refitted. I had 19 years lay off from the game. I used to use blades in the mid 1980's. I find a lot of the modern cavity backs heavy. My fitter for driver managed to find me a Ping G le 2 which I love for its lightness. My irons , Cobra F Max Airspeed I find a bit heavy. So we will have to see. My fitting is next Wednesday. I have since found out today that if you want the weight of the head to go away, you can add a heavier shaft. So we will have to see. When I said heavy. I meant that I can feel the weight of the head to much, and prefer a balanced feel.
I was fitted late summer 2021 with LA Golf AXS 85R shafts in my irons…I haven’t been able to feel a single shot I’ve hit with them…the numbers show good dispersion given the forgiveness of the T200 irons I have, but I have no idea most of the time when I hit whether it was a good strike or not, unless it’s a really poor shot. I recently tried the same head with a AMT White S300 (115g with the 7 iron) and I could instantly feel every single strike to the point where I could tell exactly what the ball was going to do before it showed up on the screen…fortuitously the Trackman was very slow that day, so I would have about 5 seconds before the tracer showed up. I was dead on accurate every single time, and, even better, I was hitting it much better with the ability to repeat a good swing…can’t do that with my lighter LA Golf shafts…
Very interesting viewing! Found the PX 5.5 a beast-far too heavy and that was just a demo. Previous irons were NS Pro 1050GH and came down (in weight) to GS 95. For some of us, weight of shafts is a big factor; an armsy swing may have something to do with it too! Would like to get a demo of the Zelos and see if going lighter makes any difference in 'feel' and possibly strike (which needs to improve). Really enjoying the work put out on this channel and have so for the past few years.
I know I am a little late to the party hear but, i used the TM RSI 1s that had a stock 95g shaft in them, for a year and a half my ball striking was hit or miss and I couldnt hit a par 3 to save my life, it was always left or right miss. I recently bought the Wilson FG tour F5 that have the s300 DG 130g shaft and I have not missed a par 3 since. I am more accurate and my ball striking as never been more consistent. I tried another experiment, I have a TM #3 UDI with the stock Ctaper lite shaft, again, struggled to hit it, my bad shots were either an over fade or really short. I had it reshafted last weekend with an S300 DG 130g shaft and have never been more consistent with a 3i. It is more accurate and the distance is crazy. I am switching my driver shaft from an Aldila Tour green xflex 65g to Aldila tour green xflex 85g. we will see. BUT, that is for me and my swing.
Overall Balance of the club is what I want to feel , doesn't matter light weight or heavy weight , overall balance is what I find feels good to me , it helps me with my tempo , a light weight shaft with a low swing weight makes me want to over swing club , as opposed to a heavier shafted club & swing weight .
So much great information in this video about shafts. Some people look over shafts, but as we all know there are people out there who love shafts. Similar to the Ping G and the LS Tec, you see small differences in them, but it always comes down to feel. Keep up the great work!
I need to go to lighter shafts. I currently play DG R300 at 127-130g . I am looking at DG 105 R300 yield a reduction of around 26g. Unfortunately I do not have the luxury of conducting the comparison using a single club head, which would in essence preclude the head as a variable. The DG R300 is fitted in my 7 iron which is a Titleist AP2. The DG 105 R300 is a trial cart shaft fitted to a Taylormade P770 trial cart head. So you can see my dilemna. It would really help me if you could comment on what I might realistically expect from this change I am considering.
Mark, since you are the most relatable, as distance goes to us regular folks, i figured you and Coach could test TP5 and TP5x vs ProV1 and ProV1x vs RB tour and RB Tour x vs Bridgstone Bx and Bsx vs Callaway Chrome Soft. See which company truly has the best ball for distance, feel, durabilty. All hit by one player on same day with same equipment. Putting, chipping, pitching, irons, driver, and out of the sand. You may either have to travel to the warmth of Florida or wait til summer. Of course the longer driver, irons, and wedges can be done on GC Quad. It would be a great video. Hope it's doable. Thanks
Yeah, I'll always go heavier over lighter as I have an easier time telling where the head is. Though I don't know if it has to do with "just" the shaft as it might be the total weight of everything combined because your hands are only in contact with the grip.
I play every weekend with 2 guys who also use 714AP1'S. they had much lighter shafts so I went back to Titleist for a fitting to see if it would help me. It was like learning chinese trying to hit with a lighter shaft, struggled to get good impact/strike. Very true what Mark says in this video how it is player specific based on feel. I've changed spec but still a heavier shaft as I feel I can control it better and deliver better results
With regards to shaft weight, i found the project x 6.0 120g approx more accurate than a 95g shaft i had fitted previously. However due to the proj x being stiffer and heavier i have moved the ball further back in my stance in order to have a more aggressive transition into the ball.. Unfortunately when i played my first pennant game with the heavier stiffer shaft, my swing completely deserted me due to too much tension buildup at address in preparation to aggressively hit down on the ball.I have also had to change my grip to a very strong one in order to hit iron shots. To say i am very disappointed with my game and my fitting by Callaway is an understatement.. I am now going to change my iron shafts to the slightly softer and lighter Project x 5.5 in an attempt to get my 4.9 Handicap again. Currently i am on 7 but feel that by changing my setup, grip and swing in order to get some life into my current irons was not the correct thing to do. Thanks for the vid Mark. Great stuff as always.
do you think results would differ if you didn't know what you were hitting? I recently got fitted for a new driver. Went from a G25, regular flex and I think the weight was 65gms to a Callaway BB Alpha 815, stiff flex and I think the weight was 90gm. Using GC2 I went from hitting 230m carry with 3700 average spin to 250m carry with 2200 average spin. Was a successful fitting for a non-shaftoid.
Heavier shaft weight in my irons was more accurate for me. Just purchased a heavier driver shaft.Going from 60 grams to ,70grams, so hoping it will work out as good as the irons..Very interesting vid Mark..Thanks for this one.
..... and next we can talk shaft torque! And length - we mustn't forget length ! really interesting video Id be fascinated to know yours and coach's respective swing thoughts and visualisation - do you focus on externals (the club face, strike, a virtual ball flight to target etc.) whereas Coach focus on internals (weight shift, hands, shaft pull etc.) you mate Adam Young has interesting/strong views about this and I wonder if this explains your skill in being able to deliver good strikes and numbers with any flex, weight and I'm guessing torque etc. ?
My fitter (who's a student of Bob Wishon) has mentioned this regarding weight as well. Also one of my coaches is recommending for me to go to a heavier shaft because I'm so top-heavy on my swing. Meaning my brain wants to use my hands and arms to generate the power rather than the natural sequence of starting with the legs (I jerk the club down full force, which causes all kinds of issues of course :). Hence they recommend for people like myself that a heavier shaft "usually" can help the brain get the feel of letting the club set while firing with the legs. That and of course learning the proper sequence, which I'm in the middle of :)
Recently swooped to heavier shafts in my woods. I "feel" more feedback from the club somehow, tough to explain but it gives me a better appreciation of the club head which links to face/path relationship. Probably has a relatively limited impact on overall performance but I like it. You also can't underestimate the "collection" or "tinkering" aspect to it to have something a bit different to a stock club and the story that goes with it
some say heavy shafts for quicker tempo, lighter for slower. But again its a feeling thing and how you control it. A lighter, softer shaft can an will launch and spin lower for some people. A shaft doesn't always work how it says on the box...
The use of the word "dispersion" is significant. They're either using the wrong word or they're using the wrong math. I'd say the dispersion on two shots, one 30' left and one 30' right would be 60' of total dispersion; not 0'. I could even entertain the argument that this case would be considered 30' of dispersion (from center-- semantics). Definitely not ZERO, though. You are right.
I guess one could use the average dispersion here as a measurement of your aim, where as the dispersion in shots with the same aim allignment would be better calculated with standard deviation
Hey mark! You should try and get you hands on the Mizuno shaft optimizer. I work at a golf store that does club fittings and I am hesitant to believe that it accurately reflects what said golfer actually needs in terms of iron shaft. If you can get you hands on one and do a review based on whether or not you believe that this device is giving accurate feedback, that would be awesome! Thanks for all of your great videos. Keep it up!
I have a curious question?? I thought of having my Driver head removed and put on either an (8 Iron size) shaft or a 7 Iron size!!!! Which are around 36” size shafts. Is this a wise idea? Or is it a recipe to lose lots of distance?? No matter how much more control I might gain.. if any. What’s your take on this idea? Great thanks!
Just a thought Mark, how come you use average to measure dispersion? I mean you could hit 3 shots 30 yards to the left and the next 3 shots 30 yards to the right and have an average of 0, which seems like you are quite accurate, when in fact you are not. Wouldn't it be better to use something like standard deviation to measure the dispersion perhaps...? Interesting video as always though!
+XesserX the numbers are there if you want to use them. Also the over head graphic shows the dispersions very well. I don't really use average dispersion very much at all. With students etc etc 😀
The graphic show it much better you are right :-) It just seems like a strange thing to measure with an average to me... It's always interesting with a shaft video though! Let's hope you don't upset the forum big dawgs with their exotic 500g XXXXX flex shafts this time! ;-)
Mark outside of feel, wouldn't the numbers from the lighter shaft be slightly better seeing that it's squeezing out a bit more carry, flying a tit bit higher, and spinning more? Or is there a thing as too much spin with an iron? Obviously I know there is if it's over spinning to the point of dropping off on distance, but if the distance is still longer, isn't more spin better? Please enlighten me guru. Love you and your crew. Can't thank you enough
I absolutely think, and have since before watching any of your shaft videos, that weight has the most impact on me. I can never tell difference in flex, or such little difference that it feels irrelevant. Same with torque and bend point...I am just not good enough maybe for them to feel or act different. or maybe I can just adapt to them. I very much can adapt to shaft weight, but like you prefer the heavier feeling of control. I don't lose distance but it makes me "feel" more like a pro to swing heavy shafts, and therefore I seem to feel more confident. I like mine around 115 grams. My new Mizzys have DG 115 and it is a nice middle ground.
Mark, since Matt's data the first time on the very light shaft was a dispersion going 5L and 10R the second time, do you think that it is because he knew that the lighter shaft was supposed to go left amd tried to correct it himself.
I went to a fitting recently and I found my 130g shafts were seriously heavy and as soon as I went to 95-105g I had consistent strikes. I can still hardly believe it had such an impact!
in my Mp32s I used to have Dynamic golds weighing around 124g. I tested KBS Tour, KBS Tour 90 and Project X 5.5 and one other, cant remember.Ended up that the dispersion on the Tour 90's was a lot better and the lighter shaft gave me the impression I could feel the club head.I swapped them in and have been loving them since. Also picked up 8-12 yards per club, probably due to strike consistency but still...
Should have done some tour shafts that are meant to launch low and spin low and some maybe more friendly shafts that SHOULD and I use emphasis but should launch high and spin high or low. Shafts are something that I personally do play a lot into. I do feel like I hit lower with a KBS C-taper tour vs an XP95 and things like that. It's all strange to me. Again I could be lying but I feel like I do launch it lower with a "tour" like shaft.
I tend to try and guide light shafts. The thing that affects me most is the way my body feels on that day. I really like my dynamic gold S300 but when I don't keep up with my fitness or I just feel tired that day they feel heavy and I start pulling them. I've been thinking of carrying 2 different weight shafts with me to try to match the way my body feels on that day. Just as an experiment to see if it makes a difference
I've always played the same shafts (true temper s300) and have never felt the need to change as I trust this shaft. Is this a good way to go about things? Could I get more out of my game was I to change shafts?
I've always played DG. First S300, then R300. I'm now getting on a bit and need to find something lighter. Let's face it, DG ain't light, they are probably the heaviest steel shaft out there. I have been looking at the DG 105 R300, which represents a reduction of 26g thereabouts. My problem is access to launch monitors and being able to interchange different shafts to one head so that it is only the shaft that is considered. I'm having to do it from feel, instinct, trial and error and scouring around for expertise and experience of others. The latter is short in supply I'm finding.
Interesting tests, especially the difference between you and coach. My wife has a really light shaft(womens flex tho) in her driver and when I swing it, I just cant feel the clubhead and sometimes I hit it well and other times its wild even with 14 degrees of loft on the driver. I had a taylormade 360ti that I had to changed recently (swing speed improvements I thought) for exactly the same problems I could not feel the clubhead(regular flex). Whereas my newer driver that I just bought off the shelf(whoops) fly z+ in stiff with 65g shaft when I swing it I can feel the clubhead and feel I have more chance of hitting it well, which I do. Will have to check out how heavy the shaft is in the old 360ti. Thanks for the vid big boy!
I don’t have a particularly fast swing, My swing speed dictates that I could be fitted for a reg or stiff, as I’m right at the changeover point, but I was told at my last fitting, a couple of years ago, that a heavier shaft would help with dispersion!, and it truly does!. I find it interesting but not too surprised, as we are the ever changing and weakest link in our game!, and what will suit one person, may not be any good for someone else, much like a lesson, it is a personal thing!.
love a data video, I'm using Hole 19 app to log all my data it's a little basic but very helpful. On the topic of shafts and weight against stiffness. I currently play the ping G irons and have stiff awt 2.0 shafts which as I'm sure your aware start light at long irons (which they claim helps with speed for accuracy) and get heavier as you club up for feel and for me I really like them, but on my fitting I only hit the 7 iron so didn't get to use the different weights that those particular shafts have to offer even tho i did hit other shafts but i assume that would be to many shafts for one place to hold.
Really interesting vid, I think it highlights the importance of getting fit but also how good players can compensate around the equipment as well as shown in the retest numbers for you and Lockey. Personally after a lot of testing and I do mean a lot of testing I have found a shaft for my irons that really is a perfect fit for me and I have never played better because the feel has improved. Keep up the good work.
Mark, do you think that shaft flex and weight don't matter as much to those who swing at zero, like yourself (of course this is taking strike for granted)? At zero you essentially are hitting the club how it was designed to be hit, so you don't need "help" compensating for none zero club to path?
I got fitted for the z785 irons, I tried the nippon modus 3 120g and I was losing them left, then I tried the c taper light 110g and the dispersion was a lot better. They felt a little dead to me but I went ahead and ordered them. Since then I cannot hit the 5 and the 4 iron without slicing due to high hands and towards the toe. I get no feel of where the club head is compared to my old kbs fst 130g shafts. I don't know why irons are not fitted with a 5 iron demo head as most could hit a 7 iron with any shaft.
I feel as my standard length Irons are too short. Going to get fit for this, but in general if I have to add an inch, to a 36 inch pw what does shaft weight do to the swing weight? Should I go heavier or lighter in order to keep the same swing weight with one more inch of shaft? What does length do to swing weight?
was at American Golf last wk for what they called a club MOT 😮 . basically the outcome was he felt and the numbers pointed to me maybe being better suited to a stiffer heavier shaft then the Regular standard ones in my G20's. I felt that maybe strike affected my numbers more then anything . made me think though and I'll definitely be getting fitted properly when I change my irons next .
Makes sense that you could turn over a light shaft faster, creating a closed club face. Also that delofts the club thus his lower shot with lighter shaft. I would say if you have fast hand go heavy slower hands go light for a quicker turnover. Swing weight is big for me, I have p770's with amt shaft they feel great except I bought the 4 iron seprate and it has a DG s300 and I can't swing it hardly at all. Feels so different. So one day I just balanced one of my clubs on my finger and it balanced about 6 1/4 inches up from the top of the hossel, they all did execept the 4 iron balanced about 9.5 inches up. That is swing weight isn't it? Those lighter shafts must give you a heavier swing weight right?
Hi Mark, Suggest you spend a bit of time looking at this from Tom Wishon. "the Role of the shaft in Fitting and Performance". It will probably help you to understand how shaft fitting influneces your ability to maximise your performance. Also take a look at Mizuno fitting video with Luke Donald. Regards, chris
I agree regarding Tom Wishon. He is the most knowledgeable on clubmaking and fitting. No one can touch him on his videos and explanations. Surprised Mark didn't reply to you
i do feel the modus give me a sacrifice in about 4-5mph of swing speed over the project X pxi. but i in the modus i got a smash factor of 1.39-1.41(7iron) wheres in the pxi i got 1.35-1.37 which actually equaled to same average distance. i do feel more tired with the modus though.
It's a very interesting point weight, I've been playing the KBS tour lites, got on with them extremely well last season. I struggle with "modern" drivers, the head is huge and the club weighs about the same as a pack of Doritos (other crisps available) like swinging a balloon on a cane and I have no idea at all where the head is pointing. So I've upped the weight in my driver quite significantly, get on much better with that as a consequence. What I have now noticed however is that I am really struggling with my irons clubhead speed has upped it's too quick now and I'm hooking everything.
i think it's about on course testing, i struggle with strike so my flight go's both ways which is a pain.i think when you look at the numbers you should concentrate on your strike and path that will improve your dispersion.
Interesting I've seen similar stuff in my swing. I like the feel of light weight (100gram) but my results aren't as good as a a heavy (130 gram) shaft. The in between full swing shots are more difficult for me with the light weight. And I launch the light weight much lower than the heavy. Don't understand why but I do. My swing speed is fairly high. I carry my 5 iron about 215 yards. I think swing characteristics make a much bigger impact on shaft profile selection than swing speed does. Thanks for the video.
There is the belief that as the club is swinging there are forces (momentum, gravity, inertia, etc) that work on the club to give it theoretically more weight / mass (then when the object it static and unmoving) that you have to counter during the swing as the club pulls in directions. Theoretically having a heavier weight to begin with means it takes more energy and effort to redirect it. Thus a heavier object at the top may be more likely to drop/lower straight down (and thus swing from more inside approaching the ball) than a lighter object that it would take less effort and muscle to move in an over the top direction on the trnasition/downswing. It's very likely someone with a more sound swing will be able to swing the lighter shaft and get more out of it than someone with a bad swing. The heavier shaft covering up or being a bandaid for the worse swing. You also have the people who think they are (delusionally) strong (macho) and think they need something heavy, because they are too "strong" for a "weak" "light" shaft. They prrconcive they can't hit a light shaft good, and they make a self fulfilling prophecy. Often times the people that say a club is too whippy (feeling to them - just a mental interpretation by them, not what is actually happening) are often the same people who rotate their arms in the swing and throw the shaft out in directions that promote torque on the shaft. Have a low torque shaft and they will likely have the shaft twist/snap shut at a faster rate (than a higher torque shaft) and clubface become shut at impact and they hit to the left, and vica versa the have a higher torque shaft they fling it out in the direction of the ball to target line instead of having it lower downward, and the shaft may twist open a little more and leave the clubface open. Having said all that modern testing says there is very little performance difference between high and low torque shafts and torque mainly effect "feel". Lower torque "feels" stiffer and higher torque "feels" softer. If you have a heavy bowling ball and you roll it down a hill, and you try and redirect it on its way down you'd have difficultly redirecting it due to its weight and mass. Push a beach ball, soccer ball, basket balls, or other lighter object down the same hill, and try to redirect it's course, and you will have a much easier time redirecting it and significantly changing it's course.
Irons i bought on a whim have px 5.5 rifles and feel to heavy for me contemplating putting the modus 3 105 in my irons as i think there just under 10g lighter
i've always felt that with clubs, it isnt a one length, weight, flex fits all, its more about finding what you feel is the right natural balance for your own body type and size, whilst still maintaining control. you may be able to get the same data from various weights etc, and even get used to them, but not feel as in-tune swinging them all.
Hi Mark, I have made a different experience. When I chose a lighter shaft (70 grams vs. 55 grams) with the driver, I gained 10 mph more clubhead speed. It would be nice if you can do the test with a less skilled player than you. I think you as a pro can adapt very easy to different conditions.
when i bought new irons last year, i've first tested a different clubs on the range by hitting them. at first i was judging just by feel and look at adress. than i narrowed it down to two clubs and tried different (3) shafts. with ping i've first tried the cfs regular flex, which was good, than a px5.5 that i've had in my last set, and then the cfs in stiff flex. the ping cfs shafts just felt better compared to the px. and with the stiff shaft i've got the tighter dispersion, while not loosing height or distance. @mark crossfield what is your point on weight in fairway or driver shafts? last titleist farway wood i've had, had a 80 gramm shaft in it. for me, this club was almost impossible to hit. it just felt so heavy. i'm feeling way more comfortable with a lighter shaft in the woods
The KBS fst stiff 0.370tip feels a lot heavier than the modus. I can launch the modus easy compared to the KBS. I actually like the nspro950GH stiff shafts. They say it really plays like a 125 shaft for consistency and accuracy. Any thoughts Mark?? I am also looking for info on the nspro990 .370 tip also. Do you know much about that shaft. Thanks in advance. Ian.
I even used my mates 130x flex modus shafts and felt them just as light as my nspro950 which I found strange. But I think the weight of the modus 3 130g shaft is in the butt end. Where as possibly with the nspro950 its further down the shaft making it feel heavy even though it's a light shaft. The nspro950 is a brilliant shaft. Any thoughts Mark??
I prefer an aldila nv 65g it just hits the best for my swing it feels like that on every driver I touch with that shaft. My matrix shaft in my tailormade 5w also feels similar to my aldila shaft though. I can hit other drivers in stiff pretty well but light just feels lacking in control
Getting ready to order a new set of irons and I have been reading about the last 2 or 3 days comparing shaft weights, I have decided to go a little lighter shaft at 95 g use a softer tip. And rely on objective feel....not have preconceived notions about heavy or light. I would say to the narrator of this short video, if he would speak slower and be more deliberately when throwing out the different numbers being analyzed...…...…..this video would have been a lot more helpful. I had to go back and review the video twice more to catch most everything...…. the content overall was very helpful.
Would be interesting to go a bit farther and see what the swing weight between the lighter/heaver set up was and whether adjusting for that made a difference. Would also be interesting to see similar data on steel vs graphite shafts at various weight points.
Hi Mark, you empahsise that these are all stiff shafts but there is no real guide or consensus to what a 'stiff' shaft is and flex can vary between different models of stiff shaft even from the same manufacturer. I understand that can be down to profiles and how people perceive them but the Modus 130 (across all flexes) is considered to be one of the stiffest shafts out there whereby someone that would fit into an X Flex KBS Tour (similar weight) would acually be better off going into a Modus 130 Stiff or even R+. So when Lockey says the Zelos feels a bit soft it could very well be a soft comparably to the Modus.
i have found now that im older the 90 gram shafts feels better when i go light i just cant hit the ball yea club head is faster but what good is it hit pw 150 yards but cant hit the green
I would submit that swing weight is at least as important a factor in club feel as total weight, within a relevant range. I would bet that Coach could swing a club with a 90 gr shaft that is swing weighted D5, vs a 120 gr shaft that is swing weighted d0, and get more feel, and even think it feels like the heavier club (total weight).
There are no absolutes in golf. What works for one may be horrible for someone else. In my opinion, feel is a very underrated part of being properly fit. The right shaft weight, length, and flex profile for any golfer is the one that works best, in my opinion. Your wrist to floor length, or swing speed, or tempo, are all well and good, but do you want to use the shaft that your measurements say is right, or do you want the shaft that you hit the best? To get the right shaft, it is imperative that you go to a professional custom fitter.
A change in shaft weight is, to an extent, a change in swing weight. Swing weight of the club head obviously affects it but a change in shaft weight adds weight to the butt of the club.
I recently went to a 125 gram shaft, shortened my backswing, and found I was hitting it further and higher. I "felt" the club. I have a strong grip and a late release, and thus, I really felt my hands zip through.
I tested for 120 gram shafts that worked great on p790's, great distance an accuracy but damn, when I was used to 90 gram shafts, it felt like I had been through the ringer, sore do 2 days after.
Mark, I'm convinced now more than ever that you are a machine sent from another realm to deliver exactly the same numbers no matter the lift, weight, flex, manufacturer etc. It's quite depressing for is mere mortals how good you are at adjusting your delivery etc to produce consistent results...then you show us Coach's numbers and we all feel a bit better again haha!
Just because they are both labelled "stiff" doesnt mean they have the same "flex" characteristics, its just in the same category. Check the specs for both on torque and kick point etc, completely different thats probably why Coach "felt" like it was a softer shaft the lighter weight zelos7 is a softer shaft .
Hi Mark this subject has always confused me until I got fitted for my irons and went from a 90 gram stiff to a 120 gram X in my irons with my irons now I'm hitting more greens lower ball flight slightly and a nice amount of spin as before it was like the ball was dropping out of the sky and with my shorter irons would spin so much with all full and half shots Driver was the same but since I've changed shafts to all being heavier I've really noticed a difference as I always thought it was the head that made the difference
I've always wondered why the companies don't use median as well to demonstrate the skew. I think it would be better understood for the masses rather than standard deviations, normal distributions etc.
I've tested my Irons with the Project X 5,5 which is 125 g, the FST Pro 115 and the 85g taylormade rocketfuel (or whatever it's called). With the taylormade I hit the ball a full club farther (further?) than with the px. All shafts measured to 5,5 in a frequency machine, all same length - I just don't get this!!!
It's the weight that is helping you. You are able to swing the club quicker with the lighter shaft. Have you tried the nippon NS850Pro.. they are a light shaft that would be good to test against your TM.
Thanks man, especially for the tip regarding the Nippons, will be looking into that. The part I don't get is Crossfield and Lockey gaining almost no distance from using a lighter shaft.
its the bend profile making the difference more than anything. The FCM really has no bearing on distance, and neither does weight, unless you are swinging more from the shoulders/arms OTT and in that case the lighter shaft is going to be a winner... at least until you decide to move with the lower body first. This is why pros wont see any difference really, because the club weight really has no effect on how fast they turn the body. In your case, clearly the arms are a factor, so lighter makes it quicker. Get it?
I been watching some club fitters with heavier shaft all people was more accurate i already knew this cause pro plays heavy clubs for a reason thats what i never got pro plays like D6 but clubs for public is like D1 or at most D2 i never got that an everyone game not improving
Thank you for a great vlog , I have a 80mph swing speed with my 7 iron 718 mb s , when I go for a fitting session I always get fit for a light shaft , but when I get my 718 mbs out that have s300 and I hit them better , but no fitter can tell me why , after watching this it's made me realise why I get on better with s300 then lighter shafts , I'm and ex boxer and quite big built and I think I find a heavier shaft feels better over a lighter shaft , Ty Mark ⛳
I did a similar test I found the biggest impact was on my golf bag, the heavier shafts seemed to make my bag harder to carry.
lmao
Lol
most courses grab your bag from your car and put on cart. or keep bag stored at course u play, and they'll put on cart for u
@@WeimaranersAreTheBestsome of us prefer to walk.
Spot on, Mark......I've found that the heavier shafted clubs at demo helped the club slot easier for me......
It felt like I had to manipulate my hands more with the lighter shafted clubs in order to maintain centered strikes on the face.
I like this good information. I experienced the same on a ping demo day. My local club looked at swing speed and suggested reg flex standard weight but at the demo day tried heavier shafts and i felt so much more comfortable with them, felt like i could feel where the club head was and my Dispersion came down.
Shaft flex is more about feeling. Feeling probably has something to do with timing and sequencing of swing.
I try to hit my irons at 80% of max. I got fitted a few years ago for Mizuno JPX 850 forged irons and KBS C-Taper LITE in S. Absolutely love them.
Another interesting look at shafts and challenging some of our beliefs. I play a regular shaft in my Cobra F6. However, I have hit drivers with a stiff shaft (such as the Srixon 545) and hit the ball the same carry distance and as straight.
Interesting video. I wonder if the difference is greater between light/heavy shafts if the swing speed is slower. I had a club head speed of 67 mph (7) with a 100g steel and it went up 10 mph with a 65g graphite shaft with a quiet different (higher) ball flight.
Hey Mark,
Can you do a future video to explain shafts kick points and torque? Thanks
Good video,Mark. thank you. I am just about to get my clubs refitted. I had 19 years lay off from the game. I used to use blades in the mid 1980's. I find a lot of the modern cavity backs heavy. My fitter for driver managed to find me a Ping G le 2 which I love for its lightness. My irons , Cobra F Max Airspeed I find a bit heavy. So we will have to see. My fitting is next Wednesday. I have since found out today that if you want the weight of the head to go away, you can add a heavier shaft. So we will have to see. When I said heavy. I meant that I can feel the weight of the head to much, and prefer a balanced feel.
I was fitted late summer 2021 with LA Golf AXS 85R shafts in my irons…I haven’t been able to feel a single shot I’ve hit with them…the numbers show good dispersion given the forgiveness of the T200 irons I have, but I have no idea most of the time when I hit whether it was a good strike or not, unless it’s a really poor shot. I recently tried the same head with a AMT White S300 (115g with the 7 iron) and I could instantly feel every single strike to the point where I could tell exactly what the ball was going to do before it showed up on the screen…fortuitously the Trackman was very slow that day, so I would have about 5 seconds before the tracer showed up. I was dead on accurate every single time, and, even better, I was hitting it much better with the ability to repeat a good swing…can’t do that with my lighter LA Golf shafts…
Very interesting viewing! Found the PX 5.5 a beast-far too heavy and that was just a demo. Previous irons were NS Pro 1050GH and came down (in weight) to GS 95. For some of us, weight of shafts is a big factor; an armsy swing may have something to do with it too!
Would like to get a demo of the Zelos and see if going lighter makes any difference in 'feel' and possibly strike (which needs to improve).
Really enjoying the work put out on this channel and have so for the past few years.
It would have been interesting if you tested the NS Pro 950 GH and the Modus 105.
Agreed, id like to see this
I know I am a little late to the party hear but, i used the TM RSI 1s that had a stock 95g shaft in them, for a year and a half my ball striking was hit or miss and I couldnt hit a par 3 to save my life, it was always left or right miss. I recently bought the Wilson FG tour F5 that have the s300 DG 130g shaft and I have not missed a par 3 since. I am more accurate and my ball striking as never been more consistent. I tried another experiment, I have a TM #3 UDI with the stock Ctaper lite shaft, again, struggled to hit it, my bad shots were either an over fade or really short. I had it reshafted last weekend with an S300 DG 130g shaft and have never been more consistent with a 3i. It is more accurate and the distance is crazy. I am switching my driver shaft from an Aldila Tour green xflex 65g to Aldila tour green xflex 85g. we will see. BUT, that is for me and my swing.
Overall Balance of the club is what I want to feel , doesn't matter light weight or heavy weight , overall balance is what I find feels good to me , it helps me with my tempo , a light weight shaft with a low swing weight makes me want to over swing club , as opposed to a heavier shafted club & swing weight .
So much great information in this video about shafts. Some people look over shafts, but as we all know there are people out there who love shafts. Similar to the Ping G and the LS Tec, you see small differences in them, but it always comes down to feel. Keep up the great work!
I need to go to lighter shafts.
I currently play DG R300 at 127-130g . I am looking at DG 105 R300 yield a reduction of around 26g.
Unfortunately I do not have the luxury of conducting the comparison using a single club head, which would in essence preclude the head as a variable.
The DG R300 is fitted in my 7 iron which is a Titleist AP2. The DG 105 R300 is a trial cart shaft fitted to a Taylormade P770 trial cart head.
So you can see my dilemna.
It would really help me if you could comment on what I might realistically expect from this change I am considering.
Mark, since you are the most relatable, as distance goes to us regular folks, i figured you and Coach could test TP5 and TP5x vs ProV1 and ProV1x vs RB tour and RB Tour x vs Bridgstone Bx and Bsx vs Callaway Chrome Soft. See which company truly has the best ball for distance, feel, durabilty. All hit by one player on same day with same equipment. Putting, chipping, pitching, irons, driver, and out of the sand.
You may either have to travel to the warmth of Florida or wait til summer. Of course the longer driver, irons, and wedges can be done on GC Quad. It would be a great video. Hope it's doable. Thanks
Yeah, I'll always go heavier over lighter as I have an easier time telling where the head is. Though I don't know if it has to do with "just" the shaft as it might be the total weight of everything combined because your hands are only in contact with the grip.
Hi Mark, I got fitted with regular 65 tour shafts on my G400 woods and modus tour stiff 120 on my mizuno 919 tour.
I play every weekend with 2 guys who also use 714AP1'S. they had much lighter shafts so I went back to Titleist for a fitting to see if it would help me. It was like learning chinese trying to hit with a lighter shaft, struggled to get good impact/strike. Very true what Mark says in this video how it is player specific based on feel. I've changed spec but still a heavier shaft as I feel I can control it better and deliver better results
With regards to shaft weight, i found the project x 6.0 120g approx more accurate than a 95g shaft i had fitted previously. However due to the proj x being stiffer and heavier i have moved the ball further back in my stance in order to have a more aggressive transition into the ball.. Unfortunately when i played my first pennant game with the heavier stiffer shaft, my swing completely deserted me due to too much tension buildup at address in preparation to aggressively hit down on the ball.I have also had to change my grip to a very strong one in order to hit iron shots. To say i am very disappointed with my game and my fitting by Callaway is an understatement..
I am now going to change my iron shafts to the slightly softer and lighter Project x 5.5 in an attempt to get my 4.9 Handicap again.
Currently i am on 7 but feel that by changing my setup, grip and swing in order to get some life into my current irons was not the correct thing to do.
Thanks for the vid Mark. Great stuff as always.
do you think results would differ if you didn't know what you were hitting?
I recently got fitted for a new driver. Went from a G25, regular flex and I think the weight was 65gms to a Callaway BB Alpha 815, stiff flex and I think the weight was 90gm. Using GC2 I went from hitting 230m carry with 3700 average spin to 250m carry with 2200 average spin. Was a successful fitting for a non-shaftoid.
Heavier shaft weight in my irons was more accurate for me. Just purchased a heavier driver shaft.Going from 60 grams to ,70grams, so hoping it will work out as good as the irons..Very interesting vid Mark..Thanks for this one.
..... and next we can talk shaft torque! And length - we mustn't forget length ! really interesting video Id be fascinated to know yours and coach's respective swing thoughts and visualisation - do you focus on externals (the club face, strike, a virtual ball flight to target etc.) whereas Coach focus on internals (weight shift, hands, shaft pull etc.) you mate Adam Young has interesting/strong views about this and I wonder if this explains your skill in being able to deliver good strikes and numbers with any flex, weight and I'm guessing torque etc. ?
My fitter (who's a student of Bob Wishon) has mentioned this regarding weight as well. Also one of my coaches is recommending for me to go to a heavier shaft because I'm so top-heavy on my swing. Meaning my brain wants to use my hands and arms to generate the power rather than the natural sequence of starting with the legs (I jerk the club down full force, which causes all kinds of issues of course :). Hence they recommend for people like myself that a heavier shaft "usually" can help the brain get the feel of letting the club set while firing with the legs. That and of course learning the proper sequence, which I'm in the middle of :)
Recently swooped to heavier shafts in my woods. I "feel" more feedback from the club somehow, tough to explain but it gives me a better appreciation of the club head which links to face/path relationship. Probably has a relatively limited impact on overall performance but I like it. You also can't underestimate the "collection" or "tinkering" aspect to it to have something a bit different to a stock club and the story that goes with it
some say heavy shafts for quicker tempo, lighter for slower. But again its a feeling thing and how you control it. A lighter, softer shaft can an will launch and spin lower for some people.
A shaft doesn't always work how it says on the box...
Mark, whats your take on the average dispersion calculation? Looks like you could hit 30 left and 30 right and it would average it to 0.
The use of the word "dispersion" is significant. They're either using the wrong word or they're using the wrong math. I'd say the dispersion on two shots, one 30' left and one 30' right would be 60' of total dispersion; not 0'. I could even entertain the argument that this case would be considered 30' of dispersion (from center-- semantics). Definitely not ZERO, though. You are right.
I guess one could use the average dispersion here as a measurement of your aim, where as the dispersion in shots with the same aim allignment would be better calculated with standard deviation
Hey mark! You should try and get you hands on the Mizuno shaft optimizer. I work at a golf store that does club fittings and I am hesitant to believe that it accurately reflects what said golfer actually needs in terms of iron shaft. If you can get you hands on one and do a review based on whether or not you believe that this device is giving accurate feedback, that would be awesome! Thanks for all of your great videos. Keep it up!
I have a curious question?? I thought of having my Driver head removed and put on either an (8 Iron size) shaft or a 7 Iron size!!!! Which are around 36” size shafts. Is this a wise idea? Or is it a recipe to lose lots of distance?? No matter how much more control I might gain.. if any. What’s your take on this idea? Great thanks!
Just a thought Mark, how come you use average to measure dispersion? I mean you could hit 3 shots 30 yards to the left and the next 3 shots 30 yards to the right and have an average of 0, which seems like you are quite accurate, when in fact you are not.
Wouldn't it be better to use something like standard deviation to measure the dispersion perhaps...?
Interesting video as always though!
+XesserX the numbers are there if you want to use them. Also the over head graphic shows the dispersions very well. I don't really use average dispersion very much at all. With students etc etc 😀
The graphic show it much better you are right :-) It just seems like a strange thing to measure with an average to me...
It's always interesting with a shaft video though! Let's hope you don't upset the forum big dawgs with their exotic 500g XXXXX flex shafts this time! ;-)
+XesserX 😂😂
Good point.
I'm buying this, especially with regard to Lockey's first shot with the light shaft, which I would consider a clear outlier.
Mark outside of feel, wouldn't the numbers from the lighter shaft be slightly better seeing that it's squeezing out a bit more carry, flying a tit bit higher, and spinning more? Or is there a thing as too much spin with an iron? Obviously I know there is if it's over spinning to the point of dropping off on distance, but if the distance is still longer, isn't more spin better? Please enlighten me guru. Love you and your crew. Can't thank you enough
I absolutely think, and have since before watching any of your shaft videos, that weight has the most impact on me.
I can never tell difference in flex, or such little difference that it feels irrelevant. Same with torque and bend point...I am just not good enough maybe for them to feel or act different. or maybe I can just adapt to them.
I very much can adapt to shaft weight, but like you prefer the heavier feeling of control. I don't lose distance but it makes me "feel" more like a pro to swing heavy shafts, and therefore I seem to feel more confident. I like mine around 115 grams. My new Mizzys have DG 115 and it is a nice middle ground.
Mark, since Matt's data the first time on the very light shaft was a dispersion going 5L and 10R the second time, do you think that it is because he knew that the lighter shaft was supposed to go left amd tried to correct it himself.
I tested shafts in two fitting lessons. And I chose 70g True Temper shafts because results were good and I love the feel of light shafts 🕊
I went to a fitting recently and I found my 130g shafts were seriously heavy and as soon as I went to 95-105g I had consistent strikes. I can still hardly believe it had such an impact!
in my Mp32s I used to have Dynamic golds weighing around 124g. I tested KBS Tour, KBS Tour 90 and Project X 5.5 and one other, cant remember.Ended up that the dispersion on the Tour 90's was a lot better and the lighter shaft gave me the impression I could feel the club head.I swapped them in and have been loving them since. Also picked up 8-12 yards per club, probably due to strike consistency but still...
But you'll lose yardage in the thicker fairways -having to adjust with a higher SS.
Should have done some tour shafts that are meant to launch low and spin low and some maybe more friendly shafts that SHOULD and I use emphasis but should launch high and spin high or low. Shafts are something that I personally do play a lot into. I do feel like I hit lower with a KBS C-taper tour vs an XP95 and things like that. It's all strange to me. Again I could be lying but I feel like I do launch it lower with a "tour" like shaft.
I tend to try and guide light shafts. The thing that affects me most is the way my body feels on that day. I really like my dynamic gold S300 but when I don't keep up with my fitness or I just feel tired that day they feel heavy and I start pulling them. I've been thinking of carrying 2 different weight shafts with me to try to match the way my body feels on that day. Just as an experiment to see if it makes a difference
I've always played the same shafts (true temper s300) and have never felt the need to change as I trust this shaft. Is this a good way to go about things? Could I get more out of my game was I to change shafts?
Yes it is until you hit 45-50 years;)
I've always played DG. First S300, then R300. I'm now getting on a bit and need to find something lighter.
Let's face it, DG ain't light, they are probably the heaviest steel shaft out there.
I have been looking at the DG 105 R300, which represents a reduction of 26g thereabouts. My problem is access to launch monitors and being able to interchange different shafts to one head so that it is only the shaft that is considered.
I'm having to do it from feel, instinct, trial and error and scouring around for expertise and experience of others. The latter is short in supply I'm finding.
Interesting tests, especially the difference between you and coach. My wife has a really light shaft(womens flex tho) in her driver and when I swing it, I just cant feel the clubhead and sometimes I hit it well and other times its wild even with 14 degrees of loft on the driver. I had a taylormade 360ti that I had to changed recently (swing speed improvements I thought) for exactly the same problems I could not feel the clubhead(regular flex). Whereas my newer driver that I just bought off the shelf(whoops) fly z+ in stiff with 65g shaft when I swing it I can feel the clubhead and feel I have more chance of hitting it well, which I do. Will have to check out how heavy the shaft is in the old 360ti. Thanks for the vid big boy!
I don’t have a particularly fast swing, My swing speed dictates that I could be fitted for a reg or stiff, as I’m right at the changeover point, but I was told at my last fitting, a couple of years ago, that a heavier shaft would help with dispersion!, and it truly does!. I find it interesting but not too surprised, as we are the ever changing and weakest link in our game!, and what will suit one person, may not be any good for someone else, much like a lesson, it is a personal thing!.
love a data video, I'm using Hole 19 app to log all my data it's a little basic but very helpful.
On the topic of shafts and weight against stiffness. I currently play the ping G irons and have stiff awt 2.0 shafts which as I'm sure your aware start light at long irons (which they claim helps with speed for accuracy) and get heavier as you club up for feel and for me I really like them,
but on my fitting I only hit the 7 iron so didn't get to use the different weights that those particular shafts have to offer even tho i did hit other shafts but i assume that would be to many shafts for one place to hold.
Great test and one I always wondered. Glad to see they were similar for you
Really interesting vid, I think it highlights the importance of getting fit but also how good players can compensate around the equipment as well as shown in the retest numbers for you and Lockey. Personally after a lot of testing and I do mean a lot of testing I have found a shaft for my irons that really is a perfect fit for me and I have never played better because the feel has improved. Keep up the good work.
Mark, do you think that shaft flex and weight don't matter as much to those who swing at zero, like yourself (of course this is taking strike for granted)? At zero you essentially are hitting the club how it was designed to be hit, so you don't need "help" compensating for none zero club to path?
I got fitted for the z785 irons, I tried the nippon modus 3 120g and I was losing them left, then I tried the c taper light 110g and the dispersion was a lot better. They felt a little dead to me but I went ahead and ordered them. Since then I cannot hit the 5 and the 4 iron without slicing due to high hands and towards the toe. I get no feel of where the club head is compared to my old kbs fst 130g shafts. I don't know why irons are not fitted with a 5 iron demo head as most could hit a 7 iron with any shaft.
Mark - views on the new AMT approach with Dynamic Gold offering lighter shafts for longer irons and heavier for shorter irons?
I feel as my standard length Irons are too short. Going to get fit for this, but in general if I have to add an inch, to a 36 inch pw what does shaft weight do to the swing weight? Should I go heavier or lighter in order to keep the same swing weight with one more inch of shaft? What does length do to swing weight?
was at American Golf last wk for what they called a club MOT 😮 . basically the outcome was he felt and the numbers pointed to me maybe being better suited to a stiffer heavier shaft then the Regular standard ones in my G20's. I felt that maybe strike affected my numbers more then anything . made me think though and I'll definitely be getting fitted properly when I change my irons next .
Heavier shaft in my woods helps me feel like I can get after it a bit more without losing control...feel is the all important intangible
Makes sense that you could turn over a light shaft faster, creating a closed club face. Also that delofts the club thus his lower shot with lighter shaft.
I would say if you have fast hand go heavy slower hands go light for a quicker turnover. Swing weight is big for me, I have p770's with amt shaft they feel great except I bought the 4 iron seprate and it has a DG s300 and I can't swing it hardly at all. Feels so different. So one day I just balanced one of my clubs on my finger and it balanced about 6 1/4 inches up from the top of the hossel, they all did execept the 4 iron balanced about 9.5 inches up. That is swing weight isn't it? Those lighter shafts must give you a heavier swing weight right?
Hi Mark,
Suggest you spend a bit of time looking at this from Tom Wishon.
"the Role of the shaft in Fitting and Performance".
It will probably help you to understand how shaft fitting influneces your ability to maximise your performance.
Also take a look at Mizuno fitting video with Luke Donald.
Regards, chris
I agree regarding Tom Wishon. He is the most knowledgeable on clubmaking and fitting. No one can touch him
on his videos and explanations. Surprised Mark didn't reply to you
i do feel the modus give me a sacrifice in about 4-5mph of swing speed over the project X pxi. but i in the modus i got a smash factor of 1.39-1.41(7iron) wheres in the pxi i got 1.35-1.37 which actually equaled to same average distance. i do feel more tired with the modus though.
It's a very interesting point weight, I've been playing the KBS tour lites, got on with them extremely well last season. I struggle with "modern" drivers, the head is huge and the club weighs about the same as a pack of Doritos (other crisps available) like swinging a balloon on a cane and I have no idea at all where the head is pointing. So I've upped the weight in my driver quite significantly, get on much better with that as a consequence. What I have now noticed however is that I am really struggling with my irons clubhead speed has upped it's too quick now and I'm hooking everything.
i think it's about on course testing, i struggle with strike so my flight go's both ways which is a pain.i think when you look at the numbers you should concentrate on your strike and path that will improve your dispersion.
Interesting I've seen similar stuff in my swing. I like the feel of light weight (100gram) but my results aren't as good as a a heavy (130 gram) shaft. The in between full swing shots are more difficult for me with the light weight. And I launch the light weight much lower than the heavy. Don't understand why but I do. My swing speed is fairly high. I carry my 5 iron about 215 yards. I think swing characteristics make a much bigger impact on shaft profile selection than swing speed does. Thanks for the video.
Nspro950gh regular flex perfect shaft for me ,200tour wins 40million shafts sold world wide since 1999 great for 80-85mph swing speeds
There is the belief that as the club is swinging there are forces (momentum, gravity, inertia, etc) that work on the club to give it theoretically more weight / mass (then when the object it static and unmoving) that you have to counter during the swing as the club pulls in directions. Theoretically having a heavier weight to begin with means it takes more energy and effort to redirect it. Thus a heavier object at the top may be more likely to drop/lower straight down (and thus swing from more inside approaching the ball) than a lighter object that it would take less effort and muscle to move in an over the top direction on the trnasition/downswing. It's very likely someone with a more sound swing will be able to swing the lighter shaft and get more out of it than someone with a bad swing. The heavier shaft covering up or being a bandaid for the worse swing.
You also have the people who think they are (delusionally) strong (macho) and think they need something heavy, because they are too "strong" for a "weak" "light" shaft. They prrconcive they can't hit a light shaft good, and they make a self fulfilling prophecy.
Often times the people that say a club is too whippy (feeling to them - just a mental interpretation by them, not what is actually happening) are often the same people who rotate their arms in the swing and throw the shaft out in directions that promote torque on the shaft. Have a low torque shaft and they will likely have the shaft twist/snap shut at a faster rate (than a higher torque shaft) and clubface become shut at impact and they hit to the left, and vica versa the have a higher torque shaft they fling it out in the direction of the ball to target line instead of having it lower downward, and the shaft may twist open a little more and leave the clubface open. Having said all that modern testing says there is very little performance difference between high and low torque shafts and torque mainly effect "feel". Lower torque "feels" stiffer and higher torque "feels" softer.
If you have a heavy bowling ball and you roll it down a hill, and you try and redirect it on its way down you'd have difficultly redirecting it due to its weight and mass. Push a beach ball, soccer ball, basket balls, or other lighter object down the same hill, and try to redirect it's course, and you will have a much easier time redirecting it and significantly changing it's course.
Upgraded my driver shaft to 70g , my ball flight has lowered but i can feel the impact better
Irons i bought on a whim have px 5.5 rifles and feel to heavy for me contemplating putting the modus 3 105 in my irons as i think there just under 10g lighter
i've always felt that with clubs, it isnt a one length, weight, flex fits all, its more about finding what you feel is the right natural balance for your own body type and size, whilst still maintaining control. you may be able to get the same data from various weights etc, and even get used to them, but not feel as in-tune swinging them all.
Hi Mark,
I have made a different experience. When I chose a lighter shaft (70 grams vs. 55 grams) with the driver, I gained 10 mph more clubhead speed. It would be nice if you can do the test with a less skilled player than you. I think you as a pro can adapt very easy to different conditions.
when i bought new irons last year, i've first tested a different clubs on the range by hitting them. at first i was judging just by feel and look at adress. than i narrowed it down to two clubs and tried different (3) shafts. with ping i've first tried the cfs regular flex, which was good, than a px5.5 that i've had in my last set, and then the cfs in stiff flex. the ping cfs shafts just felt better compared to the px. and with the stiff shaft i've got the tighter dispersion, while not loosing height or distance.
@mark crossfield
what is your point on weight in fairway or driver shafts? last titleist farway wood i've had, had a 80 gramm shaft in it. for me, this club was almost impossible to hit. it just felt so heavy. i'm feeling way more comfortable with a lighter shaft in the woods
The KBS fst stiff 0.370tip feels a lot heavier than the modus. I can launch the modus easy compared to the KBS.
I actually like the nspro950GH stiff shafts. They say it really plays like a 125 shaft for consistency and accuracy. Any thoughts Mark??
I am also looking for info on the nspro990 .370 tip also. Do you know much about that shaft.
Thanks in advance.
Ian.
I even used my mates 130x flex modus shafts and felt them just as light as my nspro950 which I found strange. But I think the weight of the modus 3 130g shaft is in the butt end. Where as possibly with the nspro950 its further down the shaft making it feel heavy even though it's a light shaft. The nspro950 is a brilliant shaft. Any thoughts Mark??
That's Effect in this context Mark, not Affect. Glad to help.....
I prefer an aldila nv 65g it just hits the best for my swing it feels like that on every driver I touch with that shaft. My matrix shaft in my tailormade 5w also feels similar to my aldila shaft though. I can hit other drivers in stiff pretty well but light just feels lacking in control
What flex do Coach have in his Project X? :D and thanks again for your great work Mark!
Getting ready to order a new set of irons and I have been reading about the last 2 or 3 days comparing shaft weights, I have decided to go a little lighter shaft at 95 g use a softer tip. And rely on objective feel....not have preconceived notions about heavy or light. I would say to the narrator of this short video, if he would speak slower and be more deliberately when throwing out the different numbers being analyzed...…...…..this video would have been a lot more helpful. I had to go back and review the video twice more to catch most everything...…. the content overall was very helpful.
Would be interesting to go a bit farther and see what the swing weight between the lighter/heaver set up was and whether adjusting for that made a difference. Would also be interesting to see similar data on steel vs graphite shafts at various weight points.
Hey mark is the same with the driver???
Hi Mark, you empahsise that these are all stiff shafts but there is no real guide or consensus to what a 'stiff' shaft is and flex can vary between different models of stiff shaft even from the same manufacturer. I understand that can be down to profiles and how people perceive them but the Modus 130 (across all flexes) is considered to be one of the stiffest shafts out there whereby someone that would fit into an X Flex KBS Tour (similar weight) would acually be better off going into a Modus 130 Stiff or even R+. So when Lockey says the Zelos feels a bit soft it could very well be a soft comparably to the Modus.
i have found now that im older the 90 gram shafts feels better when i go light i just cant hit the ball yea club head is faster but what good is it hit pw 150 yards but cant hit the green
i only like the heavier shaft as the club feels more present and this helps me get more feedback from the action
Love how there was a 1:29 Accra shaft ad before the video for me. haha.
I would submit that swing weight is at least as important a factor in club feel as total weight, within a relevant range. I would bet that Coach could swing a club with a 90 gr shaft that is swing weighted D5, vs a 120 gr shaft that is swing weighted d0, and get more feel, and even think it feels like the heavier club (total weight).
Give it was a Ping I series iron, was it fitted for you and Lockey in terms of lie angles?
+N Noddy yes
Mark, The heaviest Modus 3 shaft is 130gms
There are no absolutes in golf. What works for one may be horrible for someone else. In my opinion, feel is a very underrated part of being properly fit. The right shaft weight, length, and flex profile for any golfer is the one that works best, in my opinion. Your wrist to floor length, or swing speed, or tempo, are all well and good, but do you want to use the shaft that your measurements say is right, or do you want the shaft that you hit the best? To get the right shaft, it is imperative that you go to a professional custom fitter.
doing this test blind (not knowing which shaft was what) would be so interesting, thanks for the great content mark.
Good video, I always thought flex was more of a bigger factor.
What about swingweight then, shouldnt that be the most deciding factor?
A change in shaft weight is, to an extent, a change in swing weight. Swing weight of the club head obviously affects it but a change in shaft weight adds weight to the butt of the club.
I recently went to a 125 gram shaft, shortened my backswing, and found I was hitting it further and higher. I "felt" the club. I have a strong grip and a late release, and thus, I really felt my hands zip through.
Love the Modus 3 shafts, they are destined to my be in my new irons. It is about feel once you get into range.
I tested for 120 gram shafts that worked great on p790's, great distance an accuracy but damn, when I was used to 90 gram shafts, it felt like I had been through the ringer, sore do 2 days after.
Mark, I'm convinced now more than ever that you are a machine sent from another realm to deliver exactly the same numbers no matter the lift, weight, flex, manufacturer etc. It's quite depressing for is mere mortals how good you are at adjusting your delivery etc to produce consistent results...then you show us Coach's numbers and we all feel a bit better again haha!
Just because they are both labelled "stiff" doesnt mean they have the same "flex" characteristics, its just in the same category. Check the specs for both on torque and kick point etc, completely different thats probably why Coach "felt" like it was a softer shaft the lighter weight zelos7 is a softer shaft .
Great video again Mark!
Can't abide Dynamic golds... Too heavy even in R300... Happy as a clam with PXi 6.0
Would love to see this type of video made about swing weight.
Hi Mark this subject has always confused me until I got fitted for my irons and went from a 90 gram stiff to a 120 gram X in my irons with my irons now I'm hitting more greens lower ball flight slightly and a nice amount of spin as before it was like the ball was dropping out of the sky and with my shorter irons would spin so much with all full and half shots Driver was the same but since I've changed shafts to all being heavier I've really noticed a difference as I always thought it was the head that made the difference
When fitting, I would use spread (Yards Rt+ left)
wow, I really expected the lighter shafts to go faster
would love one of those The Open scorecard holders
Interesting, never really thought of weight. Everyone always bangs on about flex!
Always fit for weight (and length) first.
Average dispersion by itself tells you nothing, it needs to be accompanied with standard deviation, though the visual helps in fairness.
I've always wondered why the companies don't use median as well to demonstrate the skew. I think it would be better understood for the masses rather than standard deviations, normal distributions etc.
In summary "I'm better than Coach"
I've tested my Irons with the Project X 5,5 which is 125 g, the FST Pro 115 and the 85g taylormade rocketfuel (or whatever it's called). With the taylormade I hit the ball a full club farther (further?) than with the px. All shafts measured to 5,5 in a frequency machine, all same length - I just don't get this!!!
It's the weight that is helping you. You are able to swing the club quicker with the lighter shaft. Have you tried the nippon NS850Pro.. they are a light shaft that would be good to test against your TM.
Thanks man, especially for the tip regarding the Nippons, will be looking into that. The part I don't get is Crossfield and Lockey gaining almost no distance from using a lighter shaft.
Johan Melander cool no prob.. i used those shafts on my sisters set back awhile.. they are smooth shafts mid flex i think. good for smooth swingers
its the bend profile making the difference more than anything. The FCM really has no bearing on distance, and neither does weight, unless you are swinging more from the shoulders/arms OTT and in that case the lighter shaft is going to be a winner... at least until you decide to move with the lower body first. This is why pros wont see any difference really, because the club weight really has no effect on how fast they turn the body. In your case, clearly the arms are a factor, so lighter makes it quicker. Get it?
What is FCM? Other than that I get your Point. Much appreciated!!!
this is changing the subject but I u want you could play at north wilts golf club by calne
I been watching some club fitters with heavier shaft all people was more accurate i already knew this cause pro plays heavy clubs for a reason thats what i never got pro plays like D6 but clubs for public is like D1 or at most D2 i never got that an everyone game not improving