This is how TASes do their RNG manipulation btw, it’s not exclusive to TASes. Hence why you see some random movements during a TAS run which needs RNG manipulation.
RNG in most games doesn’t work exactly like this tho. For most games if you do the same inputs the RNG will not be the same. It is influenced by other factors
I mean, it's probably as easy as making the level up to the point of the next magic koopa and then building the level around what it makes. Unless adding to the level breaks it
I've once made a level called "Luck you", which uses another random thing (which seems to vary it's behavior even with no input), the random thing is the acorn, it jumps in a random way
@@jc___underscore___ MK9-S6P-HBG It's not very polished and there's some possible "cheese" at the end, but as of now it's still less than 1% clear rate
Its really not that hard. You just build the level until the first magikoopa. Then, you see the result of the magikoopa with whatever input you want the player to hold. Then you build the rest of the stage, adapting to whatever result you got from the magikoopa. If you are trying to force a specific result, like let's say you really wanted the specific string of mushrooms, you simply play with the spacing of the saws.
@@armitronerthat's not how that works... it depends on the time the button was pressed and the time held. Otherwise, it wouldn't be pseudorandom, but a switch statement.
Having tested RNG in mm2, I'm impressed with how much patience was needed to make the level. You have to start at the start every time you attempt to change the RNG outcome
There is no RNG in any computer whatsoever. But it comes very close. I think the nearest thing that humanity has nowadays regarding RNG is the Lava Lamp RNG of a well known IT security company (no, I am not kidding)
TECHNICALLY a random number generator algorithm is randomly generated, but it will randomly generate the same sequence of numbers every time that specific algorithm is run
Thanks for including the explanation. I already knew this little tidbit about being able to manipulate rng in any given level for magikoopa block transformations but im glad youre teaching other people about it 😊
No random number generator is actually random. They all use a seed and run it through (sometimes not enough, sometimes extremely excessive) mathematical formulas to end up with an outcome thats very hard to predict; at least, without knowing said formulas. The only thing thats different between them is what they use as the seed for the RNG, for example in this case your inputs. I believe minecraft uses the time as a seed when you dont manually enter something
I know that the old pokemon games literally just count the amount of frames the game has been on. People have found out that you can time the frame pick your starter in gen 3 which makes it have the best IVs and nature
Well, it is also about the level's timing. If they use the level time in milliseconds to generate random numbers as apposed to real world time in milliseconds it will always generate the same random number, or the same random item.
There's a lot of things that use RNG, most RNG systems will be rolling new numbers constantly, but they'll also roll extra numbers whenever an RNG using event, such as a Magikoopa morph, or dust clouds, is caused, there's probably a bunch of enemies in the rafters being used at various segments to help nudge the RNG around
The real question is how did they create the level around those required inputs in order to make the level knowing what the items would get turned into
Input is pretty easy, just hold the button from the very beginning. And when you set up a new obstacle, you are just playing with enemy and golden block placement until desired result. If you can't get it, make Mario's path a little longer or shorter and try previous step again.
@@backfloop ...? Do you not realize what negative connotation "hot shit" has? You say "social cues moment" when you don't have any idea what's angry or neutral....
A friend of mine made a level using this randomized tech to make it so that if you enter the Konami Code than a complex mechanism will open a blue switch box gate.
Just to add. This is done by having a series of clown cars wedged between noteblocks with stumps inside of them off screen. They normally will jump left or right randomly. But if you enter the Konami Code they all go a specific way which will activate a series of mechanisms which will eventually activate a switch block if all the clown cars go the correct direction.
Even if it was truly random I think the chances would be higher since it looks like there's multiple spots where you have to bounce on an enemy, but it doesn't matter which one it turns into
Reminds me of Pangea’s actually lucked based pick a door, but it’s kind of used in the opposite way, this one makes you not move so it knows exactly what you’ll get, Pangea’s makes you move as much as possible so it’s impossible to know
Doom and Doom 2 both used a similar RNG system. It simply cycles through a list of numbers every time a function is called, meaning that if you were to record and play back your movements, it would have the same result every time. This system allowed for the recording of demo files, which could be distributed online in a small file format and played back on your computer. This was what popularized speedrunning in the first place
imagine if it was rng and the guy who made it spent months getting that one perfect rng validation run and now its just a deathtrap to endless runners.
It wouldn't really take a couple of months to beat this level if it was rng. If each attempt takes 10 seconds then in order to get a ~50% chance of completing the level it would take around 8.5*10^10 (850000000000) years
This sort of shit is why ppl developed a jinx mentality towards the RNG systems as kids. And started following a certain flow to things. There was a variety of ways to set things up to get certain outcomes.
The key to beating randomness in games is remembering that computers can't do true random numbers. Games try to circumvent this with many different methods, but there's usually a way to manipulate the solutions.
Reminds me about something like the rng in doom, as long as you're consistent, the outcome will be the same. Though there it's a number table and not a really RNG rng.
Random number generators are never actually random since they just are a function that produces and outputs based on a seed value. The seed value could be the time or the number of button presses. That’s the only explanation I could think of.
Fun fact it’s not random, it’s based on number of jumps, there are a few levels out there that depend on you jumping a certain number of times in order to not softlock!
Fun fact! Computers cannot be random. All "random" generation is just the computer taking an input from something like a clock, or player inputs, then running it through a super-complex algorithm to change it until it looks random. That's why holding the same input gives the same output: because the RNG in Mario Maker is (likely, i have not confirmed it myself) based on player input.
Sounds like the same kind of RNG that the Original Doom uses, it cycles through a list of numbers. These determine every event and, since humans aren't going to react the same way every time, that's how it feels random. It's also how recorded demos can be the same thing every single time.
"The random number generator in mario maker isn't actually..." No random number generation anywhere is ever actually truly random. Randomness is an abstract concept. Impossible to manifest irl.
That's pretty much how "luck manipulation" works in Tool Assisted Speedruns (TAS). Push the same buttons on the same frames and you get the same result. That's why some TAS have runs that consistently get super rare drops (with like 1/4096 odds), and can do so consecutively.
“Mario Maker’s RNG isn’t actually random” Every game that has “RNG” or “randomness” is not actually random. Computer can’t do random. There will always be a seed and formula to simulate randomness.
as someone who studies computer science this might be one of the worst implementations of RNG or a Randomizer ever, but nonetheless, it's an insanely cool secret
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
This is how TASes do their RNG manipulation btw, it’s not exclusive to TASes.
Hence why you see some random movements during a TAS run which needs RNG manipulation.
AFAIK most modern games' randomizers don't work like that, but in the NES/SNES era? Absolutely.
RNG in most games doesn’t work exactly like this tho. For most games if you do the same inputs the RNG will not be the same. It is influenced by other factors
@@trentthen642Every game is different, but in simpler games like this or Pokemon it's pretty much spot on.
@@trentthen642Yeah, they usually use things like the amount of nanoseconds since the system started to generate random numbers
@@dragon9372 Same, I also used tap the screen with Pokémon Go. 🤣
Cool level, great explanation
EPIC
@@Gorillaking-nn5ylcuz it’s true
@@Gorillaking-nn5yl bcz hes right
EPIC
2,7k likes and no reply let my dix this
Imagine the amount of testing done to create that level
I mean, it's probably as easy as making the level up to the point of the next magic koopa and then building the level around what it makes. Unless adding to the level breaks it
You have to beat it start to end to publish it at all. Including updating.@@kiwikiwi5602
It was probably reverse engineered by someone who knew the RNG formula while making the level
That and just making it pop mushrooms while editing the level and just changing them the last moment
@@jaskaranbajwa8443”Probably” nah dude, I’m sure they just spent the entire lifespan of the Earth testing this level 😂
I've once made a level called "Luck you", which uses another random thing (which seems to vary it's behavior even with no input), the random thing is the acorn, it jumps in a random way
What’s the level code, I’m curious
@@jc___underscore___ MK9-S6P-HBG
It's not very polished and there's some possible "cheese" at the end, but as of now it's still less than 1% clear rate
@@PushXi can’t beat it 😢
🤔
The CRAFTSMANSHIP to build this entire level in a way that guarantees the "RNG" is perfectly aligned is absolutely mindblowing.
Speedrunners when they make a Mario Maker level😂
Its really not that hard. You just build the level until the first magikoopa. Then, you see the result of the magikoopa with whatever input you want the player to hold. Then you build the rest of the stage, adapting to whatever result you got from the magikoopa. If you are trying to force a specific result, like let's say you really wanted the specific string of mushrooms, you simply play with the spacing of the saws.
@@armitronerthat's not how that works... it depends on the time the button was pressed and the time held. Otherwise, it wouldn't be pseudorandom, but a switch statement.
@@GamerDude0306you hold up and b at the beginning of the level and never let go. its an auto
@@circumplex9552 yeah I know, but even then if you're slightly off, the entire output is different
Having tested RNG in mm2, I'm impressed with how much patience was needed to make the level. You have to start at the start every time you attempt to change the RNG outcome
this means that no level can be made truly statistically impossible because it has to be perfectly reproducible movements!
Watch Ceave's video where he managed to make a truly impossible uploaded level in smm2
@@wynnedwards94 Can You link it? I can't find it
@@bastianleyton1951 ruclips.net/video/kXYuHVatK8w/видео.htmlsi=LL0lw1icM8-jo7jp
right but if we don’t have a clear video from the uploader that doesn’t help too much
In mm1
ruclips.net/video/9D5i3K5-QxM/видео.htmlsi=zJNm60nvKRxjt1Ik
In mm2
ruclips.net/video/kXYuHVatK8w/видео.htmlsi=EKZsWsvDsH53EXvc
There is no RNG in any computer whatsoever.
But it comes very close.
I think the nearest thing that humanity has nowadays regarding RNG is the Lava Lamp RNG of a well known IT security company (no, I am not kidding)
nice Lavarand shoutout
I believe there's also an approach that uses the randomness of your clicks, if I recall.
The company is cloudflare if people wanna read more on it
I presume u mean lava lamp RNG from Cloudflare
There's /dev/random which is true random.
TECHNICALLY a random number generator algorithm is randomly generated, but it will randomly generate the same sequence of numbers every time that specific algorithm is run
Not the case in Mario Maker 1, where RNG seed is generated anew after every attempt.
A random number generator isn't random, and we have yet to implement a binary example of randomness. And what you're referring to is a seed.
Thanks for including the explanation. I already knew this little tidbit about being able to manipulate rng in any given level for magikoopa block transformations but im glad youre teaching other people about it 😊
No random number generator is actually random. They all use a seed and run it through (sometimes not enough, sometimes extremely excessive) mathematical formulas to end up with an outcome thats very hard to predict; at least, without knowing said formulas. The only thing thats different between them is what they use as the seed for the RNG, for example in this case your inputs. I believe minecraft uses the time as a seed when you dont manually enter something
I know that the old pokemon games literally just count the amount of frames the game has been on.
People have found out that you can time the frame pick your starter in gen 3 which makes it have the best IVs and nature
That's not true.
@@nowonmetube Yes it is.
@@nowonmetubeWhich part do you think is untrue
Well, it is also about the level's timing. If they use the level time in milliseconds to generate random numbers as apposed to real world time in milliseconds it will always generate the same random number, or the same random item.
There's a lot of things that use RNG, most RNG systems will be rolling new numbers constantly, but they'll also roll extra numbers whenever an RNG using event, such as a Magikoopa morph, or dust clouds, is caused, there's probably a bunch of enemies in the rafters being used at various segments to help nudge the RNG around
The real question is how did they create the level around those required inputs in order to make the level knowing what the items would get turned into
a rather absurd amount of trial and error and dedication
yeah I wanna see a tutorial on this
Input is pretty easy, just hold the button from the very beginning.
And when you set up a new obstacle, you are just playing with enemy and golden block placement until desired result. If you can't get it, make Mario's path a little longer or shorter and try previous step again.
It looks like this level has you hold up and B before the level starts and push no other buttons
@@stephanreiken9912 i would start at the end tbh.
RUclips shorts makers think they're the hottest shit ever everytime they "loop" a video
That’s what I’m sayingnbro
Exactly! It's not cool, it's not original, it's not clever, it's stupid!
Blah blah blah, cry about it. You hate it because it's "common" and all because it's "common" you hate it. Grow up.
@@luhvmel0 they never said they hated it, not being impressive to someone ≠ being disgusting to them. Social cues moment
@@backfloop ...? Do you not realize what negative connotation "hot shit" has? You say "social cues moment" when you don't have any idea what's angry or neutral....
Fantastic video! Great job Will
A friend of mine made a level using this randomized tech to make it so that if you enter the Konami Code than a complex mechanism will open a blue switch box gate.
Just to add. This is done by having a series of clown cars wedged between noteblocks with stumps inside of them off screen.
They normally will jump left or right randomly. But if you enter the Konami Code they all go a specific way which will activate a series of mechanisms which will eventually activate a switch block if all the clown cars go the correct direction.
that’s actually absolutely galaxy brain level of mario making
So Mario Maker’s RNG is like DOOM’s RNG
Even if it was truly random I think the chances would be higher since it looks like there's multiple spots where you have to bounce on an enemy, but it doesn't matter which one it turns into
"lets go gambling" ahh level 💀
Reminds me of Pangea’s actually lucked based pick a door, but it’s kind of used in the opposite way, this one makes you not move so it knows exactly what you’ll get, Pangea’s makes you move as much as possible so it’s impossible to know
I’m glad this was only made years after MM2’s release because I couldn’t handle this becoming the new “meta” in level development.
All Kamek's attacks it's frame perfect
I love how the whole permit office crew is tempted to blow everything up and be a menace but is trying to be formal
This level is in the 2023 Guinness World Records 💀
Doom and Doom 2 both used a similar RNG system. It simply cycles through a list of numbers every time a function is called, meaning that if you were to record and play back your movements, it would have the same result every time. This system allowed for the recording of demo files, which could be distributed online in a small file format and played back on your computer. This was what popularized speedrunning in the first place
Perfect way to demonstrate how video game RNG isn't truly random.
imagine if it was rng and the guy who made it spent months getting that one perfect rng validation run and now its just a deathtrap to endless runners.
It wouldn't really take a couple of months to beat this level if it was rng. If each attempt takes 10 seconds then in order to get a ~50% chance of completing the level it would take around 8.5*10^10 (850000000000) years
Mario Maker 1 and his Lucky Draw.
It is one of those RNG systems where you can have the exact same results with 100% chance as long as your actions and timing are concistent.
So, in a theorically untampered environment, this extreme luck based level would just be Koopa roulette
putting mario through all seven rings of hell for this level
The sheer creativity in some of these mario maker and rom hack levels is astounding
The word you're looking for is deterministic.
This sort of shit is why ppl developed a jinx mentality towards the RNG systems as kids. And started following a certain flow to things. There was a variety of ways to set things up to get certain outcomes.
Yep, RNG Manipulation. I've heard of this before. Still fascinating to see it in practice, though.
My reaction to that information: 🤯🤯🤯
Imagining Dashie’s rage meter and next meter playing this level 💀
Now that is an interesting mechanic for a troll fake out 'it was auto all along' trick.
The key to beating randomness in games is remembering that computers can't do true random numbers. Games try to circumvent this with many different methods, but there's usually a way to manipulate the solutions.
Ah, all the things I learned from Ceave Gaming coming back and manifesting in those video
My honest reaction was "oh a level completely manipulated by RNGesus". But ur explanation brought some reason
Reminds me about something like the rng in doom, as long as you're consistent, the outcome will be the same. Though there it's a number table and not a really RNG rng.
random number generator can also be just a numbers table.
LET'S GO GAMBLING!!!
Speedruners: now you understand what RNG man is?
You can also force magikoopas to always turn block into coins if you fill up the sprite limit
Honestly after TTH and Bombs 5, I never wanna hear the words “this level” and “impossible” in the same sentence again
Bro I had no idea you could bounce of the magikoopas shots with a dry bones shell that’s so cool
This deserves way more likes.
Level Creator: My first Super Expert Level.
This Guy: Up+B will end your career.
Random number generators are never actually random since they just are a function that produces and outputs based on a seed value. The seed value could be the time or the number of button presses. That’s the only explanation I could think of.
That one guy trying to get every shiny Pokemon “I like those odds”
Imagine someone using this trick to verify a level then putting online to absolutely MURDER no-skip challenges
You know it's a good game when an element not working as intended can make the game fun
True randomness doesn't exist.
Fun fact it’s not random, it’s based on number of jumps, there are a few levels out there that depend on you jumping a certain number of times in order to not softlock!
so it doesn't look for a random number but for the exact inputs at a given time, neat
I was so shocked that the creator had played that level probably millions of times in order to get it posted, but alas…
This is crazy
Nothing is random in the video game world. But humans cant react that precisely in real time which is what gives games their random feel.
This must be a Deadly level for Zetassj
Nintendo wanted a solution to auto RNG levels in Mario Maker 1 like Lucky Draw. So this was their solution. Kinda smart I guess.
Imagine going into this not knowing and being the one guy who ever gets it by pure RNG
So the RNG of MM2 turns what should be some kaizo hell into into an autolevel. Fascinating...
Fun fact! Computers cannot be random. All "random" generation is just the computer taking an input from something like a clock, or player inputs, then running it through a super-complex algorithm to change it until it looks random. That's why holding the same input gives the same output: because the RNG in Mario Maker is (likely, i have not confirmed it myself) based on player input.
very cool level with a lot of thought put into it!
It's always awesome to see someone exploiting how hard it is to get true random in a computer.
Cool. Thanks for explaining this
OMGGGG I LOVE HOW TWISTED DANDY IS A RAFFLESIA THESE DESIGNS ARE SO SIGMAAAAAA 😍😍😍😍😍😍
Awesome, love shenanigans like this
If you like Struggle this looks like the Perfect type of Mario Experience.
Sounds like the same kind of RNG that the Original Doom uses, it cycles through a list of numbers. These determine every event and, since humans aren't going to react the same way every time, that's how it feels random. It's also how recorded demos can be the same thing every single time.
Imagine if someone played this without knowing that and beat it through sheer luck
Imagine that the Game actually is fully RNG, and then needing to verify the level
"The random number generator in mario maker isn't actually..." No random number generation anywhere is ever actually truly random. Randomness is an abstract concept. Impossible to manifest irl.
Mario fully relies of RNJesus to save his ass here lol
In computers, there is no real random. It's based on ticks, time, or many other things but never truly random.
So similar to how your total number of steps affect your weather and luck in stardew
"Isn't actually random"
Thats funny
"Not as hard as Trimming the Herbs-"
That's pretty much how "luck manipulation" works in Tool Assisted Speedruns (TAS). Push the same buttons on the same frames and you get the same result.
That's why some TAS have runs that consistently get super rare drops (with like 1/4096 odds), and can do so consecutively.
Imagine finding this level with one life remaining.
In Mario Maker 1
bro took The Mushroom Kingdom Lottery to a whole new level
“Mario Maker’s RNG isn’t actually random”
Every game that has “RNG” or “randomness” is not actually random. Computer can’t do random. There will always be a seed and formula to simulate randomness.
Shiny Hunters: i like those Odds
the sociopaths that make chance based levels,
then double down to make that specific level next to impossible.
Luck doesn’t work with Mario, he paves his own way like a king
as someone who studies computer science this might be one of the worst implementations of RNG or a Randomizer ever, but nonetheless, it's an insanely cool secret
Nailed it. Smm2 doesn't use RNG. It's impossible to even build a rng machine, people have tried.
This would be a good level for DGR to play. You basically hold up the whole time.
I think ceave gaming showcased a contraption in mm2 that utilizes the same idea, but with claws instead of magikoopaa.
Rng never truly exists in video games
a great example of why computers (and by extension, software) can't be random
GG will on the popular short ❤
Insanely creative design.
Technically nothing is ever truly random
Imagine playing Mario Maker on a quantum PC with genuine RNG.
Not random RNG is actually a key to save space when you want to save a replay of a level. The only data saved is controller input.
Levels like that should never exist.
When Nagito plays Mario levels:
It's not that it should be "impossible," rather it should be highly improbable to beat