Yasmin Benoit: Woke Culture HAS NOT Gone Too Far - 4/8 | Oxford Union
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- Опубликовано: 11 янв 2023
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Initially used as a term to empower awareness of systemic inequalities in society, wokeism is now a deeply divisive term. The media's perpetuation of woke culture has made this term a buzzword. For some, being woke is part of the antidote of acknowledging the instruments of oppression. For others, it is a dangerously absolutist ideology, a sort of reverse McCarthyism, corroding liberal society and encouraging self-imposed victimhood. Is the 'war on woke' a legitimate phenomenon, or a reactionary distraction from the real problems being 'woke' addresses?
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"Woke is a conversation" in which only one side is permitted to speak.
lol indeed.
A conversation eh. from the person who thinks turning up drunk and reading a script is a debate.
No... we call that a lecture... not what we came here to watch.
It has nothing to do with white people... When do black people as a community get to speak amongst themselves without white interjection? White people have heaps of "you people-ism" yet when we try to do better amongst ourself white people distort and co-opt turning our concepts into conspiracy. White people are so paranoid.
Because you're anti "woke", you just can't see it works the other way around as well.
You can’t claim that woke is about caring when it so viciously goes after people who don’t unconditionally agree to everything you personally believe.
She said woke was high jacked. When I was in my phase of moral ambiguity, I was in an open relationship with a nice girl, this was in 2016-2017. She asked me if I was woke yet, and described it in a very basic and advocatorial way. My immediate response was... That's evil.
I've since read a good amount of critical theory, and watched a bunch of videos on the subject from both sides. The points brought up by Lindsay's podcast don't appear to have rebuttals from supporters of woke culture. My opinion of critical wokeness, has only been further entrenched.
Well said mate
But you can claim that the term is being misused in complete opposition to its conception. And reclaiming is first the main key.
Because you're against "woke", you just can't see it works the other way around as well.
@@Magrafo_ we invented woke clown. Try again.
The most impressive part of this was how well she spoke after 6 glasses of wine. Holy shit
5:16 I thought you were joking.
@@masterofrockets Dude it's crazy!
I am a “woke” redefiner - I’m not white or conservative. You goose.
@@Ozgipsy I have no idea what you're trying to say.
I was definitely in sympathy with many of her utterances… specifically all the pained sighs. The words, not so much.
Better to sit silently and be suspected of being foolish than to speak and remove all doubt.
ha ha ha ha well said
Biblical wisdom ;)
proverbs right?
Shocked at how boring this person is. Asexual? - and flashing breasts while speaking in a very breathless way that seems like a marilyn monroe caricature- and violating the rules by insisting on her " flow." I lost track of what she was saying. Did she actually make a point?
@@planes3333 Indeed. Proverbs 17:28
I wish she actually addressed any of the proposition arguments
Being woke is having to address all issues emotionally. Feelings supersede everything.
@@piershartley8676 Yeah Konstantin's speech was truly a special case of stupidity.
@@ckh2815 Lived experience as a way of knowing that trumps everything.
Just goes to show they have no argument
she was too drunk to go outside her script, not entirely surprising. If I had any capability for introspection and had to debate her side in the OU I too would have to be hammered, her drunkness is a self admission of defeat.
My word no matter what your starting position this went down very badly.
She is unfortunaly everything that people tend to dislike about the woke movement. Confident though without understanding, clear in her own sense of success and knowledge despite not saying anything meaningful or even in this instance answering any questions raised.
Holy crap you nailed it. Literally the thoughts in my mind.
she wants us to care about the marginalized groups that she cares about, but not about the marginalized groups from the "headlines". to her, they deserve to be marginalized.
She’s not quite everything, she’s 100kg and a short blue hair cut with a nose ring away from being “everything”
the last half of her speech was about how certain people with objectionable ideas were silenced and banished.....oh the irony....
The everything is racist argument... a very woke approach to this debate.
That wasn't her argument. Her argument is she simply defined wokism as it defined "aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues".
@@CourtneyHaynes -which completely misses the point. Good intentions are nice and all, but they don't make obvious the path to real progress.
@@Jianju69 she detailed the things wokism is. The actions that woke people do and at the end of the day it's mostly just conversations people don't like along with people doing real work in their neighborhoods along with She Hulk if you want to throw that in. If wokism has gone too far by making she Hulk, I wonder what an insurrection caused by conservatism is. Or drone strikes caused by neoliberism. Wokism going too far is a drop in the bucket compared to those.
@@CourtneyHaynes She defined it as it's meant to be not as it currently is.
@@bonghead6621 no, she described it as it is. Some people saying some things that you don't like but the vast majority being harmless and even helpful and well-meaning. The only way you get that wokism has gone "too far" is if you take the very worst of it and count that as a whole. I might as well say "white men have gone too far" and pick a minority of them to serve as the figurehead. It's Such characterizations don't lead to a robust or nuanced debate.
NO ONE is saying that there are not those who, in the name of social justice, go "too far". But what we are saying is that it is small-minded to let the very WORSE of a group serve as what the group really is. I don't do that with conservatives or any other group I disagree with. Why can't people do that for "wokism"
Who's not surprised that the over-the-top narcissist compared herself to MLK?
I AGREE and the constant victimisation is terrible im a black conservative and get back clash because of it they want me to hyper tolerant not knowing hyper tolerance leads to no tolerance at all, we can all see how they react when what we say is not politically correct lol
Not to mention, she has to dress like she's going clubbing and is looking to get some. She's telegraphing her level of maturity, which is unsurprising. This theme runs through this generation. But I'll cut them some slack because most of the WOKE are young, and don't yet know what they don't know.
Still, as a liberal who is a US citizen, I fully recognize that this WOKE religion is ruinous to culture and politics. It's bad enough we have to deal with Trump and the madness of the Right. Yet, WOKE is, in some ways, worse because of its insidiousness.
I don't know how any 'woke' supporter can dare to quote MLK as they now consider his statements around content of character to be 'problematic'.
I'd like to know how exactly she is being prosecuted. She's debating in the Oxford Union for crying out loud.
She goes directly against MLK. He wanted people to be judged by the content of their character but she views this statement as racist and would rather judge people by their skin colour, race and gender.
Current wokeness doesn't mean being aware of injustice. It means being aware of a lack of injustice and then fabricating injustice in order to benefit yourself. If it genuinely meant being aware of injustice then woke people wouldn't be so partisan in who they pursue justice for.
@@piershartley8676 // think there's genuinely a compromise position to be taken on say racism, there really isn't racism is bad and should be removed from society //
Of course there is a compromise position on racism. It's called "social justice." Social justice is taking racist assumptions about society and reversing them. You AGREE that people should be categorized and judged by their skin colour (or genitals, or into which consenting adults they want to stick those genitals, or if they want their genitals), you just disagree on WHO should be judged.
@@piershartley8676 // OK so you don't know what a compromise position is.//
the compromise is "we agree with you that people should be judged by skin colour, we just disagree on who."
// And otherwise this is just the antiracism is the real racism bullshit again. //
Anti-racism is to racism as inflammable is to flammable.
// Removal of societal privilege is not the same thing as oppression. //
But the removal of human rights is.
// Do you ever question any of the back of a cereal box opinions people hand you? //
You're just upset that I don't agree with you. You don't want me to question. You just don't want me to question you.
@@piershartley8676 you have nothing except insults.
@@piershartley8676 Your lack of a grammatically intelligible sentences makes it difficult to understand what you are trying to say.
The problem is not fighting or diminishing racism in society, it is the 'anti-racist' injustice being forced on society. Anti-racist injustice makes profit off lies and harm to people. BLM did nothing to combat injustice and only created more division and injustice while at the same time making a few toxic people rich. Kendi, who changed his name to sound more 'Black/African', is profiting off of lies and creating injustice in the system.
There is also the fact that what is considered racism in the West is not racism. Someone touching your hair or asking where you are from is not racism. While there still is individual acts of racism in the West (which you can't irradicate), the 'system' was not racist (circa 90/00s) until very recently when it took up 'anti-racist' policies which are racist.
@@piershartley8676 Not exactly, the fabrication or and exaggeration of racism against black people has a bank account. Some of those bank accounts are owned by "Al Sharpton", "Michael Eric Dyson", "Ibram X. Kendi", the "Southern Poverty Law Center", the "BLM Global Organization", to name but a very few. The concept of being racist against white people sometimes also carries a bank account. Often, it can even help you get elected to political office.
Just like the audience, I stopped paying much attention to her softball debating points after a couple of minutes; but even as a gay man I couldn't take my eyes off the default propositions. P.S. Her expression of incomprehension during Lindsay's remarks was priceless.
No idea what your talking about 😂. Nice try though
I do believe that James changed her mind. She certainly listened very intently to his argument/satire, so much so that I think a mutual coffee later was in the cards.
First time I’m not instantly furious by the inclusion of standpoint epistemology
@@robinpickett7618 Haha!
and notice, she saied the exact same things, exact same talking points and "arguments" than the other guy, without not making any point in the end. "wokeness of the past" , yes okay 'right to vote for women" , ok, "end segregation" , ok , but what is it exactly that you want right now? Voice it !
I'm not really hearing an argument here. It's really telling that she cannot even define the thing that she is debating, and then just decides to say that it means "caring" because "can caring go to far" (the answer is a resounding 'Yes!', ask any family being torn apart by addiction). More to the point, the path to hell is paved with good intentions, or so the saying goes. Some have rebutted, with the same snark as the speaker, "Oh yeah? well, if the road to hell is paved with GOOD intentions, what's the road to heaven paved with then?" The answer is simple: the road to heaven is paved with Humility. To humble yourself to the world and admit that you don't have all the answers and that you can't just fix it all yourself if only you got your way. But that is exactly how the ideologue thinks -- the already have the Gnowledge, and you don't, so just shut up and let them do what they want, all the time.
Indeed
That’s because she had no argument to present. In vino veritas.
I really hate saying this because I appreciate her willingness to get up and argue. However, her argument sounds like a valley girl doing an oral report on historical injustices. What results is not an argument, but rather a meandering jump from topic to topic in a vain attempt to create a cohesive narrative about oppression. The narrative ultimately fails to form, but the teacher kindly gives a B+ for effort.
Her overall argument was that throughout history, progressive movements have been considered as "going to far" despite the fact that many of them were perfectly legitimate and in hindsight NOT examples of going too far; and so the current push back against 'wokeness' is likely that same pattern repeating.
I don't think her argument was particularly strong or convincing, but that was the argument she was trying to make.
@@davedavy5406 I don’t know how you worked that out, but thank you for translating it for us, I definitely couldn’t make it out from her own words.
Starting with Michael Brown is priceless. Read the DOJ report - the sworn testimony of every witness.
The protests for his side weren't based on one scrap of evidence. It was all based on "He was black, so he's the victim!" and that's still all they base every shooting protest on today.
And i myself wonder why a British woman, living in a country were policemen are not armed, cares so much about a American guy kill by American police in the USA.
Is it because they share the same skin colour?
Doesn't _this_ make her racist?
Exactly
Right! There were two repeats. One which you’re talking about which clearly exonerated officer Darren Wilson from the hands up don’t shoot narrative. And a second one, which laid out the deep pattern of predatory policing, petty targeting and all sorts of abuses. The Ferguson PD targeted black residents on a broad basis.
@@vthyaga Basically more B--- people commit crimes, but it's still a tiny minority of the overall population (and nothing to do with biologically inherent attributes). But when police deal with nothing but criminals all day, their lizard brains just remember "I see 5x more b---- criminals, so all those people are criminals." Even though 95% of them are still innocent.
I'm tired of "Racism" being a magical one-word answer that explains it all. It's as simple-minded as "well obviously they're just inherently criminals."
I took Public Speaking in High School. My PS teacher taught us to follow specific rules when speaking publicly, to wit:
1. Don't read your presentation, speak it.
2. Don't lean on the podium (or box).
3. Stand up straight.
4. Don't shuffle your feet.
5. Don't repeatedly sigh.
6. Speak firmly and surely.
7. Make eye contact with your audience.
8. Squirm around sexually in fishnet stockings and cleavage?
I watched this after Lindsay, Kisin, and Young. How did she get invited to the same venue?
The more pertinent question is why James is against the proposition. I'm intrigued to hear the twist in the tale.
@@dannyarcher6370 James is the ideal person to steelman the anti-proposition’s argument in such a way as to point out its internal contradictions.
ha ha - exactly the same here, same order in fact, and same thoughts!
Oh - did Butterworth too actually
Lindsay was epic
This is debate as discipline; debaters don't always argue on behalf of the side they personally agree with.
@@jaredgorski7961 I just assumed they couldn't find 4 woke people in the English speaking world who both believe in debate and are capable of it.
This is a great example of how wokeness melts your brain cells. This young woman has lost the ability to make an argument and instead regurgitates word salad and fails to notice the contradictions in her own submission. I feel sorry for her, I do hope she grows out of wokeness as it is not doing her any favours.
And is asexual but loves showing her buttocks to those poor people behind who have to look up to the ceiling. Oxymoron must be her middle name... The world revolves around 'black' people, in her world, never embracing any other culture, including, racism against whites...
Thanks for being woke about woke culture. And being the conservative social justice warrior trying to cancel cancel culture. This is peak intelligence!
@@philosonic regurgitates word salad - in response !
@@philosonic Conservatives with a big C never claimed to fight for social justice nor where they ever shy about censoring ideas though, the reverse thing doesn't really work....
@@bushwacka5187 So do you think woke culture and cancel culture are social problems you want gone from society? If you say yes like a good little conservative, then you are literally fighting for a better society aka social justice. Not hard to understand the irony.
Can't even find an argument here, except that "can caring go too far?"
Yes. Obviously. Pathologized compassion defines the problem w woke.
She was talking without saying much. I kept trying to hear something of value but it sounded so much like a word salad… sorry not sorry.
I would disagree. The woke aren't compassionate.
It is impossible to be too compassionate and caring, and silly to think there is something wrong with being so.
OK it may seem a tall order for the greedy and selfish, but that is THEIR choice.
@@kimbirch1202 I've seen too many people enabled in their addictions and mental illnesses to believe there ISN'T such a thing as being too compassionate and caring. One can argue that being an enabler ISN'T actually being compassionate and caring, but enabling is EXACTLY the pattern of woke compassion.
What is " pathologized compassion" ?
Are you saying that it is possible to be TOO compassionate, and kind ?
She argued very effectively...for the other side of the house.
😂😂
Did you listen to what she was saying?
@@mg2619 closely.
Going to pick on some that many will likely find petty, but I believe proper dress is a sign of respect for such a body and her attire is not up to speed at all. Looks like she was going clubbing instead of an Oxford debate.
Very intentional. She's doing the proper praxis by denigrating the institution to subvert it. As is showing up hammered "six wines in".
I have to say that I agree. While I don't like seeing women judged on their appearance, when attending an event like this, one ought to dress with dignity. Her appearance is cringe-worthy, unfortunately, and reflects and underscores the immaturity of her thinking.
No kidding. Plus the coquettish "surely we agree" body language. This woman is simply outclassed.
Well, clearly not everyone can make a living with their brains. Luckily, the genetic lottery was on her side and she has made the obvious choice of capitalizing on it (posing in lingerie on social media).
That's the first thing I noticed. Why is she dressed like a cast member from the musical 'SIX.' Either that or a Spice Girls wannabe.
Don't drink 6 glasses of wine before addressing the Oxford union
She didn't even mention the cocktails.
She did look rather nervous though. I don't know anything about her and she didn't do a good job in the debate. But if she was just trying to get her nerves in check and overdid it a bit, I'd be willing to let that part slide and just focus on her non-existing arguments for her side.
God the posh is strong is this one
@@sizematters3616 🍷
Yeah, this girl's been so oppressed it would take a LARGE pea to discomfort her atop 10 featherbeds.
I was hoping for an actual good argument that hasnt been heard a thousand times before and been debunked just as many times. It didn't happen, as per usual. But I will not downvote this video, as even though this is very dislikable content wise, people coming out to debate in a civil manner is not something I dislike.
This was not what I would call debating in a civil manner, she was drunk and refusing to go beyond her script, all she did was come and read from her notes.
That is not debating, that's lecturing.
Thus I downvote.
@@EthanolTailor fair enough
@@EthanolTailor so far only Toby is not married to every academic conjunction on their written essay.
I think there was no argument made at all, only an attempt to equate this movement to successful movements in the past. It is not unlike current flat earthers comparing themselves to Galileo.
It's the wee posh Harry Potter boy behind her, sending all his energy in not having a swatch of her meat flaps under the bottom of that tiny skirt.
Woke was intended to address negatively stereotyping others. As long as stereotyping exists, its negative effects will never disappear. Stereotyping is a tool for efficiently describing our world. Woke has only made it more complicated, and everyone who doesn't identify as Woke is now on the receiving end of the very behavior it claims to end. It doesn't solve the problem of stereotyping, and in fact is creating more victims than it is protecting. Therefore it has gone too far.
Empathy is not just a word we use to feel better about ourselves.
Wise words, Elaine.
Lovely pair. Yes, proud chauvinist here.
And she knows very well how to strategically present them.
Had to have some kind of saving grace because it certainly wasn't spilling out of her mouth.
She's concerned with the hypersexualisation of black women
She also claims to be ‘asexual’ 😂
@@ladyjas6373 And aromantic, apparently.
This is what happens when you think you are the default moral good in the universe. "Being woke is caring."
"I care" said the farmer to the sheep. He took the effort to sharpen the blade. Never let Marxism take hold.
and by contraposition, everyone who disagrees with her does not care.
The hubris is suffocating
And when is caring too much, right? Well, there is a movie "I Care a Lot" which sums it up. Sometimes, we pretend to care a lot to show how caring we are.
"[Wokeness is] still just a conversation." Right. Nobody has ever faced cancel culture. It's not doing anything.
Of course. It's "consequences culture", as the youngster who spoke second pointed out. Except, the consequences are being arbitrarily made up by one part of the society.
@@cioccolateriaveneziana Yes, and none of them are legal, it's all social. It's just mob rule in the worst way. It's like the evil twin of democracy.
@@ghr8184 It's partially legal repercussions, too. If British police investigates approx. 3300 "hate incidents" a year, it's not a marginal phenomenon.
Their ideology literally teaches that you must do.
Woke apologists are such ignorant... Or liars.
@@cioccolateriaveneziananotice how he defends it saying it's consequences culture, but the woke are absolutely against poor people being poor, saying the consequences are unfair.
They flip flop and are inconsistent as a core trait.
Intellectual dishonesty and incoherent consistency is the key part of woke
Yes. Caring CAN go too far. Look at Borderline Personality Disorder. Look at Histrionic Personality Disorder. Crazy ex-girlfriend? Too much empathy.
Woke is the group manifestation of BPD, HPD and narcissism.
Good comparison. The black and white, with me/against me thinking. Favorite person/enemy.
It’s dogmatic too. Lived experience of the chosen few people supplants reason. Questioning is immoral. Complete fealty to constantly changing ideas and definitions. And redemption isn’t possible. New and improved Calvinism. 😂
@@pnwlady I don't think it's an analogy. I think that's _literally_ the psychology of the constituent antagonists.
And in many ways, the woke behave like a crazy ex-boy or girlfriend with the whole "nobody will ever love you or understand you like I did" variety of gaslighting, the "If I can't have you, NObody can have you," the fawning adoration they shower you with so long as you show them you're under their spell, but the moment you make overtures toward striking out on your own, you're instantly the devil. The splitting. Anyone who's ever been in an abusive relationship knows this level of manipulation, and the insecurities that occasion it.
@@robh3007 Formerly romantically involved with a chick with BPD right here. ✋🏻
@@robh3007 ya, there is a lot of crossover with personality disorders. It comes down to an insecure or fragile ego. BPD have no sense of self so they need others to define themselves.
This brand of activism is all about fragile ego. Can’t debate or discuss. Usually because people don’t know why they think what they think, only that it’s right, and if you don’t agree you’re wrong (and bad). Very unstable way to engage with the world.
Maybe I’m not gracious enough towards the ideology. Thinking over the debates, the strong ones played to the strong and weak arguments of the opposing side, the weak arguments assumed the best of their side and the worst of the other. Straw men everywhere and it’s not even July. 😂
As an asexual (non woke non LGBTetc affiliated) myself I was curious to see a public speech by her for once after having heard/read about her. So, that was terrible on many levels. Is she trying to make the case that ethics, ideas and ideals which have been considered too "woke" in the past in her opinion, have always been correct later on? The same could be argued for any kind of extremism at any point in time really. This I'd call adapted Maxism. Perhaps I shouldn't have watched Kisin's very skilled speech first.
She is clearly trying to separate the very few good core ideas of theoretical wokeness from the overwhelmingly bad aspects of practical wokeness.
_Edit:_ Claims to be asexual while simultaneously dressing as sexually enticing as possible. 🤔
Ms. Benoit references Huddie 'Leadbelly' Ledbetter, and it is worth noting that she would probably have never heard of him if it was not for the work of musicologists John and Alan Lomax, and later Paul Oliver, who brought Ledbetter and his fellow bluesmen to public notice. All white dudes, by the way.
Yes , but her culturally appropriated hair is cool.
Yes ... caring can go to far ... when caring is done without insight ... when the result of caring makes the same harms as you try to free others from, when caring is ignorant and laging insight as to why it is deeply influenced by ideology, religion or cultism. When caring is as much about your own identity as the ones you signal to care for .... everything in this world is in need of being well ballanced to work at its best.
I hope she reads all these comments and takes a moment to seriously reflect on her take of "reality"
I wouldn't hold my breath lmao
She won't.
she only reads the thirsty comments posted on her OnlyFans
Maybe after another 10 to 15 glasses of wine? XD
Endless loop for these rainbow people.
"What is reality?" They would say.
The issue is that Yasmin is assuming that Woke is just a continuation of various progressive high-points, rather than progressivism having fallen into decadence.
Well that was a ridiculous word salad. Did no one present a rational argument in favour of the Woke movement?
That’s my body language when i rly have to go pee
That's my body language when I'm at a bar chatting with someone I want to lay.
This is a great example of how wokeness melts your brain cells. This young woman has lost the ability to make an argument and instead regurgitates word salad and fails to notice the contradictions in her own submission. I feel sorry for her, I do hope she grows out of wokeness as it is not doing her any favours. - "Best comment ever."
you don't have to be really smart and educated to be an instagram model and...unfortunetaly it shows.
She's clearly gifted for showing her cleavage and posing in lingerie on the Internet. Not so convincing making a speech. To be a liberal means you judge the value of someone's words and ideas, not the person. However, there was nothing much to salvage from her speech here. A lot of emotional reasoning and virtue-signaling. Nothing of substance really.
she sells her body. shes not a pillar of standards to look to
Can caring go too far? ... Yes? How do you not know that?
Evidence for support: munchausen by proxy
She's 20. And pretty. And probably rich. She doesn't really have any experience with life. Ignorant of history. Doesn't have a clue what oppression is like. Or even hardship.
I'm starting to think the woke kids weren't volunteering in great numbers. Or maybe they just had to have someone black. Even so, very low quality argumentation. She was basically exhibit A for "Woke Has Gone Too Far." One can tell she'll be a first class crybully soon if she isn't already.
Because she’s young and not very thoughtful.
When you don't know if they're British or American.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasmin_Benoit
@@lesleycassell ah, so she has no identity, her entire personality and presence is influenced by online personalities...got it.
t. born on the thames estuary in berkshire
this is how you single-handedly lose your team a debate
They just let anyone speak at these things, aye?
Can caring go to far? Yes, It is called being a Karen.
6:33. Woke doesn't like to have conversations. It believes it is already correct. Hence the whole point of this debate. People will offer examples of cancelling and the woke heads will say, they deserved it. No debate.
I broke it down like this as a Debate Coach
1 - 2 minute
Intro A Introduction and A Joke
2 - 4 minute
Defining What Is Woke
4 - 6 minute
What is going too far changes. Referencing How Martin Luther King and Woman Suffrage were attack the same way as Woke.
6 - 8 minute above
Woke is learning and adapting. Outliers exist in every movement.
Who is her speech writer?
She just dialled that one in
To sum up: She wonders why popularity dropped for woke culture because it´s intentions are so good (victimisation)! And doesn´t give an answer. But its okay because in history people also went to far... so nevermind (ignorance). So its okay to just move on like this because who knows, it surely must be worth it because look what others did in the past (self-delusion).
Don't forget she's asexual.
In her defense she's great-lookin'. Damnation by faint praise? Dunno, that'll probably carry her though life. Girl's living on easy mode & claiming it's New Game Plus PLus Plus Blood and Broken Bones. Sad.
@@theminister1154 stop simping she looks mid
Skipping this one
Yes caring CAN go too far.
We waste public funds on some issues, while disregarding more important issues. Feelings don't make for good public policy.
Yes, we should carry on spending public money on weapons of mass destruction, and despoilind the planet, and making money for the few, and killing each other in countless wars.
Recent notable example - BLM apparently got 10.6 billion dollars world-wide; most of which seemingly hasn't found its way into anything tangible whatsoever.
@Yin over Yang None of this takes away from.the core issue of racist cops, or the fact that black lives do matter.
I would also check those facts, as there is alot of right wing fake news circulating.
@@kimbirch1202 So "racist cops" you believe? All of them? Black lives do matter - but no one ever said otherwise, at least not for the last 45 years. Seems like the the 'fake news' may be a projection of your own doubts about your own information sources.
@Yin over Yang Of course not all of them.
Now you show me your evidence of the.millions of dollars that you claim have gone missing.
Don't put out things that you cannot prove with evidence, or you will sound like one of those zombie Trump supporters, who believe anything.
Isn't she too young to having first heard "woke" in 1930?
She said 2014. Did I miss something ?
@@Zazezoo In the next sentence she talks about a song from 1930's in oddly specific terms.
that's a good point, no human being can be aware of events which occurred (or music which was recorded) before they were born.
Her arguments were strong, I felt them, I understood them. I want that to be the case. The problem is the same problem as 3rd (and now possibly 4th wave feminism). Either she honestly has no idea about how those progressive ideas have been hijacked and twisted over the past couple of decades, or she intentionally chose to omit them from her points.
Her delivery was very poor, and most of her arguments got lost in her delivery. Punctuation helps, pause breath, and please god stop the eye rolling and sarcasm tone. She lost most of the audience due to these very things.
@@joshuaam7701 TBH if she wasnt drunk she would probably not have gone up there for fear of having her mind changed. If she did she might have engaged and learned something rather than lecture us from a script.
To the people blindly cheering "yaaaas queeeen", The difference between a debate and a lecture is that the speakers respond to each other's points in a debate, and read from a script in a lecture. This was the later.
Lecturing never won any debate.
They have not been hijacked because the radical views that you fear are not a big part of the progressive left. You're acting like a right-winger just trying to misrepresent what the opposing view is.
The dress didn't help either.
Her points were meandering, and just went to droning on about history - like, sister, what's your point?
It is important to listen to people you disagree with. That’s why I am here.
None more asleep than those who describe themselves as woke.
Man the cadence of her speech just....... I mean!
I thought her decision to go with "smug cliche-happy asshole" was very clever.
@@theminister1154 is that not just how woke people sound in general.....
@@christiangerhardt2408 There are a few woke people of good will. There are quite a few who know to hide their unearned disdain as a PR tactic. Ezra Klein types.
@@theminister1154 I have note seen one good woke person. Not yet.
@@christiangerhardt2408 how many "woke" people do you know?
I disagreed with much of what she said but out of all the people speaking against the motion she was the only person who gave a convincing argument. While still not addressing anything the proposition said.
It's as if the people who were invited to challenge the motion all went with a pre-planned speech that they stuck to with no intention of actually responding to the proposition arguments. Benjamin Butterworth was the last to speak and basically tried to say the word "woke" was invented by the right as a perjorative, even though this lady went before him and explained it was coined by the black activist community in the 90s.
I love the fact that she confidently made herself another "woke" joke 🤣😆😅
It’s refreshing to hear debate of this topic especially.
Zealot is a better term. What it represents in the states is contrary to MLK’s vision of being judged by the content of one’s character not skin color. Who is against equality? The crux of the issue is what works: equality of opportunity or outcome?
On US campuses now you are racist if you do NOT judge someone by the colour of their skin. The good Doctor is no doubt looking down on all this in some confusion...
Is she from the Ministry of Silly Unemployable Wankers? No need for Monty Python. The reality has become a jwoke.
How say nothing about the proposition in 8 minutes - it felt like half an hour.
"Killed by The Police". What...the band?? Blimey. "The police" she speaks about are a group of almost 700,000 law enforcement officers (who are all different people). They have never all participated in a single murder nor a group of murders. However, some individuals who are also police officers have done. Out of 700,000 current officers in the USA, this number will be very, very small. Words are immensely important, especially when you are having a debate. I suggest people speak the truth if they want a correct or good outcome.
I have only this to add. If you don't wish to be treated as a suspect, don't act like one. A concept most black people cannot understand.
I want to make a point in reference to WOKE, but not directly in reference to this debate (I've already done that).
Al Jazeera ran an article today about how there was outrage regarding Gwen Stefani "culturally appropriating" from Japan in her music videos, and by way of a comment she made about "...being Japanese" following a visit to the country. In other words, she loved Japan so much that she made a comment as such, and also incorporated some of the themes from its popular culture into her performances. So....guess who was outraged about this? And guess who didn't even take notice of this "outrageous" affront to Japanese culture?
Indeed, over and over and over, WOKE goes too far here and in other western countries. One way this sh*t stops is for those of us who are normal to stop tolerating the intolerant. Turn the tables on them and shut 'em down.
That's because most Japanese people are indoctrinated to not be a disruptive force in society. The surface, the face level is very important that leans towards harmony. However if you get to know Japanese people you'll find they have strong sentiments not different to any other culture. Just because they do not openly express it does not mean it doesn't exist. However in this case most Japanese people probably don't give a f**k about Gwen Stefani and not worth their time to comment
@@pakkeungwan Right. I'm familiar with Japanese culture...somewhat. I know that they, indeed, don't make waves. But on this particular story, Japanese people were asked whether they noticed the story about Stefani "culturally appropriating". They did not care. Some said they think it's nice that she likes Japanese culture. Most did not follow Stefani, so they did not even know about it anyway. The only outrage came from young, white, WOKE people in the US and probably in other western countries like Britain. What a surprise. I call the WOKE the 'outrage police'. They're ruining everything. And for the record, I'm not some hard right nut job. I am a moderate liberal from the US.
@@lonzo61 Hi, I did notice that Stefani story when it appeared here in the UK and gave it a cursory glance. It had a minor slot in a well known left-leaning news outlet but I did not detect any outrage. Indeed, that was the only posting of that story across media platforms that I noticed. I must admit to not fully understand what the term Woke actually means and after listening to a few of these speakers, I'm none the wiser. What I do know is that on the occasions when Woke is used here, it comes from the right-wing press, commentators and politicians and employed whenever their views, behaviour or government policies are criticised. I have never read or heard anyone say 'I am Woke'. I feel that the ideas, issues, histories and cultural groups ensnared by the term Woke are so much more complex and tend to be too slippery and shape-shift for any single word to encapsulate and define.
Her demeanour is a bit too thirsty for someone claiming to be asexual.
i think "woke" just means that you can talk a lot and not say anything.. ie: I AM AWAKE = YOU ARE (now) ASLeeP... ZZZzzzzzzzzz... she is a real intellectual woke gem.. good to see the education system working so well.... in summery her argument is "head for the stars land on the moon" and "I will co-op any body and anything to fortify my position"
"The Road to hell is paved with good intentions."
“…as an asexual…”
Later
“…I believe in evolution…”
Umm… you’re doing it wrong?
What has evolution got to do with wokeness anyway? Like, I am not woke. I am pretty much on the right wing but even I know that evolution is true.
@@thetechnocrat4979 - it's a strawman. She's just tilting at windmills.
my brain hurts with this one
💯
because you just want wokeness to mean what you want it to mean and the real definition is beyond your comprehension
@@mg2619 that must be it, yeah.
freak
@@GoldenbanjoDJ
huh. I was expecting a lot worse seeing the comments, but she was a lot more coherent than I thought she would be.
Whilst I don’t agree with her, I think I learnt much.
The fact that this lady can speak freely with this for such events inappropriate outfit ( there still should be dresscode for some events) shows that shes not opressed at all .
Indeed this would have been impossible after WWII but maybe it this is possible now it is possible people have fought for tu too
Just so everybody here is aware, Benoit is a lingerie model who identifies as asexual. I'm fairly certain this tells you everything you need to know.
She provided a justification argument, as a progressive ideology.
It hasn't been hijacked, it has just been built upon to get to this stage. Equality to coercion to intimidation to silencing. So yes, it has gone to far as an ideology.
Baltimore, Maryland graduated a whole class of high school students in which
2 students could meet minimum standards for graduation.
The Baltimore school district has been run by blacks for a few years and in a
city that is run by blacks.
The Woke types were very, very quiet about this. This event should have
kicked off a national conversation about the scholastic performance of
public schools in America (Baltimore is just one example). It hit the news
for a day then we went back to the usual Woke rodeo circus about oppression.
As an aside, public schools in America are the ones run by the local government
and are open to all residents.
The fact that anyone looks at her as anything but culturally useless is insane...
Right wing media invented the word " woke " to try and demonise those who point out the insanity of the status quo.
Of course ,some quibble about relatively mild issues, and are too selective about which issues they protest.
Political correctness is another matter.
Yet, no one can deny the insanity of this world, and how badly folk can treat each other.
Of course, privileged Oxford students, and white folk in general, don't experience this, and many will bury their heads in the sand, in denial.of the facts.
None of this means that we cannot celebrate the good in each other.
Kindness and respect is the only way, for a decent society.
she's equivocating with the word woke, which assume certain critical theory underpinnings. she's trying to "motte and bailey" back to calling it "just caring"
@3:56 Lol Martin Luther King fought for women's rights to vote? That happened before he was born. I love the way she says "and he was assassinated for it". Just the way she looks up and says it like a valley girl, it's priceless. The juxtaposition of her unseriousness and the actual seriousness of someone like MLK, his significance, and her insignificance, is just so vivid.
Always makes me skeptical when someone speaks and speaks, but when I try to formulate their points and the paths they took to reach them in my mind, there is only fog; an empty room.
Also- we're about kindness, how can we go too far?
it's called pathological altruism. some psychologist wrote an entire book about how it manifests itself in human relationships and how detrimental it can be.
Kindness, lacking in good sense, can be deadly. Member Lennie with the puppies, from of Mice and Men?
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
- C.S. Lewis
Really interesting to come back and read comments here after watching the next student speaker and seeing the comments on that. Worth it.
How should rape prosecution be link to sexual assault? In crime stats, sexual assault could be anything from molesting to gang rapes. All these could prove is that less women are becoming victims of severe sex crimes like rape; and that's supposed to be a bad thing?
Why does she bring her race into this? Its nothing to do with WOKE.
That Alex dude looking like "yeah, I'm on the losing team" 🤣🤣
Is there any place for the individual in woke culture?
Absolutely not
Read the book "cynical theories" co-written by one of the other speakers James Lindsey.
Woke denies rights or importance to either the individual or the universal ( as in it doesn't recognise any universal attributes shared by all mankind such as suffering, loss etc).
It only recognises group identity so you cannot be in an oppressor group (white male) and be oppressed (eg be on the receiving end of racism)
It's the perfect mindset for hatred, conflict and violence.
That's like asking "is there any place for fullness in emptiness" or "is there any place for hot in cold." They are not just mutually exclusive. They are antonyms.
Don't see anything "asexual" about her. Which I don't mind.
Damn that woman is incredibly attractive
Lucidity and celerity aren't in her wheelhouse.
She doesn't require either, given the natural assets she carries into this esteemed venue and debate motion: her skin color, her cleavage, and her fishnet stockings accentuating those legs.
It worked on me, and I was FOR THE MOTION! I just wish there were more debaters like her. I wouldn't have to think.
I don't think this young person actually said anything here. But I can't be sure, because I was distracted from any content by the continuous fluctuations in her accent, slaloming between young female California-speak and what came across to me as affectations of various English accents.
She claims both that progressive culture has had all this success but also hasn't gone anywhere. Charming.
Thats a good point, no one ever brings up, ingratitude. Those of us that've always defended equality of opportunity, and also always defended against casual racism whenever we've seen it - Suddenly we're actually being accused of being racist for just being white, for example? This results in a good 70-90% of the white population thinking to themselves "hang on a minute!?' The whole 'woke' movement is really about some reapportioning of imaginary power, (Butteworth accidentally brings this up in his speech). It's the precise opposite of what they claim. people are waking up.
Whether a Woke grifter or a genuine Woke activist, they are wrong in their attitudes and actions
I have met a few decent woke types. I rather doubt she'd be one. I get the impression she's one of those bullies stymied by anti-bullying in schools who turn woke so they can crybully with impunity while feeling self-righteous. Shocked oxford couldn't do better.
It is good to push for things. Nothing going to happen without a push. But it is also good to have a counter push. This is the only way we know when we went too far.
She can't deal with an interjection like Toby can, who navigated well incidentally.
She shut down the debate as it kills the flow. That says it all doesn't it.
To be fair, James Lindsay & Konstantin Kisin also refused interjection, which is their right. Many times, I'd rather hear them make their point. That said, Young dispatched interjectors handily and with facts alone.
Yes, you're right. That is true.
Interjections stymied by both sides.
Toby Young is the more confident orator in this instance, which counts for much when debating.
GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT . 6 wines in. Need a few more fucking corks
the pure ego, me, me, meeeeeeeeeee
the amount of misogyny, racism and acephobia in these comments is not it.
congrats on this speech, yasmin! what a wonderful achievement and thank you for all the work you do!
She has a crush on James Lindsay. Look at her body language in the video where he speaks.
This girl is a completely incompetent debater, ludicrously ignorant of the topic at hand, woefully unprepared for the arguments of the other side, undeservedly arrogant, and lacks all necessary respect for the forum's decorum.
If you think that is racist, misogynist, or that the girl with her tits hanging out is "asexual", well congratulations! Now you too can play the victim 🤡 despite being one of the most privileged people in the history of the planet. An oppressed Oxford student. Oh, that's rich. That's pure Ministry of Clownthink.
To see an Oxford student claiming victimhood for her "oppressed sister".... my GOD the temerity. You deserve _every bit_ of scorn I can muster. You're the very avatar of a pathetic generation.
Still, it's not entirely your fault. Not at your age at least. I'm sorry we failed in raising you, and I'm sorry you were poisoned by antisocial media. I'm so glad I had the opportunity to deal with bullies and fights & such. No irony intended whatsoever. It was a blessing I can only understand now in the negative. You poor "Beautiful Mice."
There's none of that. People are making fun of her for looking drunk, switching accents, looking like she has to pee, talking nonsense, and claiming to be asexual while flaunting her tits.
@@ericaeli3807 Jimmy Concepts really nailed this one. Better than Konstantin, and Konstantin has gone CRAZY viral. The problem with JImmy Concepts' speech was you gotta know a lil bit about Cultural Marxism / Critical Theory to get the joke. He literally *made the other side's argument better than any of them while simultaneously demolishing it.*
Kinda impressive actually. Then again Critical Theory is pretty stupid when you get right down to it. It's just jargon-heavy to camouflage the midwittery. Still, I am pretty versed in this stuff & I could have only pulled either half of Lindsey's 2fer.
@@theminister1154 Konstantin is very good. From an emotional standpoint he packed a bigger punch than James. James was highly entertaining but probably only of you know him.
Result: The Union voted 89-60 in favour of the motion “This House believes woke culture has gone too far.”
Scary. 60 out of 149 people think woke has not gone too far
Why did she drink 7 drinks before this? I don’t understand. Are these students? I’m not allowed to go to school drunk.
the arguments she made were not weak persay, but i think it was slightly undermined by the fact she didn't really address the proposition's arguments or link well with her teammates
They are good arguments when you look at them in an isolated fashion. The problem is that there's an implicit understanding that those who oppose her views are unable to accept new ideas or don't care or... there hasn't been a genuine attempt at understanding why others think that there are far better options.
“Speaking as a ……….” Yawn! She doesn’t seem particularly disadvantaged to me.
Interesting she brings up Martin Luther King, whose ideas would now very much plant him in the ‘Uncle Tom’ category by many of the woke ideologues.
malcom x called out woke white ppl...lol
Astonishing that a society like the Oxford Union has participants so boorish as to interrupt the presenters while they make their presentation.
Yes, I was wondering if it is an established convention that people in the audience can venture a question, but still very strange for quite a formal debate.
@@nf6386 it's normal for the Oxford Union
@@jonathancullis9155 thanks. Would you also happen to know if the structure is necessarily equal teams on each side? It seems that there are more people arguing for the motion here, unless a few videos are still pending upload?
This woman is so passionately woke. The wokeness is evident from her tone and all the way upto her body language. It makes me remind a viral video where a man teaches a lesson to the teen barista to not to fake her tone.
I am not sure whether the speaker identifies as a woman or a tree or a football stadium in Qatar so forgive my assumption if it turns out to be false.
Is this REALLY one of the best the opposition could find?
It's because nobody can make a good argument for woke culture
Yes.
Glad she delivered her wokish points physically and drunkily.
Fucking crazy people