I came across dog daddy and the controversy just today on Reddit. There’s an entire movement with petitions to get him cancelled, charged, thrown in jail, banned from certain jurisdictions, etc, etc. people may not like him or his methods, because they seem harsh to the sensitive eyes of “dog mommies and daddies” who have never had a truly aggressive or dominant animal (imo). All of the cuddling, nurturing and sweet talk in the world won’t take an animal with a wild or dangerous streak. I am not a dog trainer, but I’ve had every possible disposition to be found in a dog now with my most recent large mix breed. He NEEDS to be physically dominated just as an alpha wolf will to a strong beta challenging his position, or else he will become very threatening and will not listen to anything or any one.
Every dog daddy is bad video I just watched literally showed SECONDS of footage. Just paused on one or two tough moments where a dog was losing their shit lol. They talk so much about oh ouch that hurt the dog but not one I would’ve done this instead or maybe this would work. People love to point the finger and criticize but never offer actual advice just picking apart seconds. Literally one video was paused they were talking the whole time about 2-3 seconds 🤣
People who judge him didn't look at his history with all kinds of animals in his country. He learned animal behavior basically by observing them in their packs. No book training can teach that. Just like Cesar Milian the dog whispers. He had the same background. He learned from being in a country with stray dogs. Through his observations he learned about how they behave in packs. I'm a retired special ed teacher who taught autistic children for 27 yrs. I had never worked with this population before. There were times I felt frustrated that I couldn't get through them. Sometimes to teach them things looked like unacceptable. For example, if you asked a child to sit down and he has a tantrum you have to find ways. First you ask them to sit. Not complying you nudge them into the seat. You stand behind them and every time they try to get up, nudge their shoulders down until he sits. Continue with out saying a sound until they get it and stay sitting then you reward them by saying "good job" eventually they get it. Some people look at it as being mean but the goal is for the child to fit in society and get an opportunity to learn. I'm proud to say that I've had students with autism with terrible behaviors and tantrums that went on to become a pharmacist and more. Just like in the dog world who train the handlers, I used to train the parents. I would tell parents to put their emotions aside and do what's best for their child. Stop feeling guilty, because your child is different at the end you'll feel prouder with their accomplishments. So for those who think that Dog daddy and Cesar Milan are abusive I totally disagree. I have my master's in special education and I never learned my techniques from a book. All my students loved me as well as their parents. I feel proud that all my students are functioning in our society. The thing that I learned from the books was that when your changing behavior, when you begin, the bad behavior will go up, and then it will go down. The same when Dog daddy gets the dog the dog will protest by getting anxious, and fights back, once the dog learns that he's not going to stop he gives in and knows who's in charge. Just like when other teacher's would ask me wow how did you get Johnny to sit? My response and my motto was "I do it Until!" and "I mean what I say" It's very rewarding. Behavior is Behavior. So address the behavior, NOT the child or the dog. Sorry for the long response. It just bothers me when people say stuff without understanding behaviors. Always remember who is in charge. 😊
@@MiracleK9Training Probably the worst case is that the owners of dogs are worse then the dogs. If they don't like the results they have, even if they don't keep up the training etc. then they can make all sorts of accusations about Dog Daddy and his training methods. Dog Daddy works with extreme cases where the dogs and owners have lost all hope and the dogs may need to be put down due to their aggressive fear behaviors. He understands that the dogs respond due to fears, that they need to be shown they don't need to be afraid. The dog needs to know that the owner is in control and won't take them into situations that will be harmful and that they can trust the owner. I have no idea about dog daddy and money owed etc. but seriously how could he continue to work if all these hate-filled accusations were true? The dogs all look much happier after working with him, even a short time, and I'd say it's nothing short of amazing to see the results. I agree if all the rumors were true, he'd be in jail, and so far, he isn't.
I am a huge fan of Dog Daddy. He knows dogs and how to work and communicate with them. Dogs are not humans and they don’t communicate like humans. They have a pack mentality and do not have the same emotions and responses as humans. Dog Daddy knows dog communications.
@@MiracleK9Training Oop, I mean you can beat the shit out of a dog and it’ll work and “get results” 🫠 But I don’t see D.D as problematic, I just thought your statement was silly 😅
Can’t find the actual allegations or video but from what I’ve seen, he deals with some of the most difficult dogs out there, from many places around the world. He has helped thousands of owners but unfortunately, the more humans we come into contact with, the more likely the chance that someone will bad-mouth us and find fault. As a ratio, surely we can all see the good that this guy has done and is doing. Can anyone truly state they have ‘never‘ done or said anything they regretted afterwards? Come on- Please give the guy a break. He’s publicly apologised.
What gets me is that people have a strong opinion about what someone is doing because they don't like what they see!! In this case, unless you're a dog trainer, what or how he does what he does doesn't require your feedback especially if his methods garner the expected results!! People want to tell other people how to raise their kids, what car to drive or how to talk to people! Get a fvcking life, you're not that important or influential that your opinion really matters!!
cant speak to what kind of man dog daddy is as i never met him but i can say his methods are clearly effective! He seems to understand the pack mentality and how to interact with them. to say he is hurting these dogs deliberately is just showing your ignorance of how pack mentality works. The leader is the leader. and will fight if challenged IF a dog in the pack misbehaves the leader corrects him and no he is not nice about it!!! no one would call that animal cruelty. Dogs have a a natural fight or flight instinct and letting them suffer in fear is sick and cruel. IF he was cruel, you would never see the dog accept him as a leader. In almost all his videos you can clearly see the dog get over its fear and almost immediately put their trust in him say all hateful stuff you want but the dogs have clearly spoken on the matter. as for this so called vet expert, i have never seen a single video of him dealing with a scared or red zone dog...wonder why that is???
I agree with what you said. I’m not here to judge a character of someone I’ve never personally met. And I have some reservations about some of his tactics. But none the less he is helping people and that’s really what I care about
I think one problem is him trying to grow his business on his own. I think it would help him to get endorsement either by a well liked celebrity or a partnership with an established dog business. It's hard when you are doing things in a different way than practiced methods, especially without much support you inevitably rub some people the wrong way
There are always people looking for a free ride… clout chasing, hating ..whichever way and however they can get noticed..destroying peoples lives.. It’s despicable…setting up whole pages surrounding the accomplishments of successful entrepreneurs because they are deadbeats.. what a world we live in..
I came across the DD stuff pretty recent… I’m actually a very big THOMAS DAVIS fan ❤ And some of their training is pretty similar. My husband is in school he is working on training aggressive bully breeds (common in our area). We are training a pair of male GSD right now, one bites people. Our entire complex spread rumors about this family even to us, speaking poorly of these dogs… and the trainer working with her told her to walk both dogs together NEVER SEPARATED!! 😭 BRUH So she was walking 2 male GSD alone… this is a very small female married to another woman… these poor women! So we finally met her without service dogs (mastiff & a chonky beagle 🙄 she’s on a diet!) LOL So we ask her about all of this and she says she paid this trainer 2600$!!! her dogs are chaos… We showed her what separating the dogs would look like and told her that dog is unconfident on leash and the other is aggressively unconfident. So we show her he takes one out THIS GSD army crawled!!! like DUDE he’s 3 years old! 😭 The other dog was fine but like a dominant personality (I don’t mean dominant aggressive or whatever people say lol) he was like u know puff ur chest out and act tough hah 😂 but like is actually just protecting mama and like the other under confident dog. It’s crazy what I’ve learned… I feel sorry for people who come across bad trainers. I don’t think DD has bad training but he is a bit rough at times with some dogs I have seen. I like Thomas Davis ❤
If u watch his vids he gets control of the dog with a choke chain but it doesnt damge the dog in any way and ot clearly works. The dog could seriously injure someone and woukd be destroyed shouldnthat happen so what's the big deal? Making kissy faces and trying to give treats to a dog that wants your throat wont work
i thought he was someone worth working with and i bought an observer ticket for a class of his, then i discovered all the controversy and started feeling doubtful and tried to get a refund and they wouldn’t give it to me since they saw a comment of mine on social media bad mouthing them and they called me out on it lmao i thought that was ridiculous, and they refused my refund. there is a fb group that posts evidence and video footage of all those allegations. i guess it’s just hard to tell if he is truly successful from just the short clips he posts. he confronts the dog head on and makes them realize there is no need to fear anyone, and the dog seems to submit after that, but okay, then what happens? how does the owner continue this training at home? that’s what i’m conflicted with. the owners aren’t going to find anyone to practice that confrontation. i’m just curious about that part, which is the most important..the consistency of working with your dog with tools you apparently learned during one lesson. (a lesson that costs $400 and it’s not even a private…. owners are paying for his gucci tracksuits and 20 min of individual 1:1 training lol).
Everyone can make their own decision. He has a lot of good testimonials from people he’s worked with. But unless you work with him or any other trainer you won’t know for yourself.
You couldn’t get a refund, did you end up going? Can’t quite tell. Only see his Instagram post, there’s always music on top, not him speaking. Guessing he must give a lot of verbal direction. And looks like you can record it. Interesting that you can get an observer ticket.
@@dddgoo2980 i was not able to get a refund. i even went through my bank and it was still denied. it’s hard to trust trainers that just do these single day lessons and then “fix” the dog.
Keep watching their videos and you come to know him giving training to the owners as well. That is why you see him talking a lot more in his videos. Giving homework to do for the owners. For the "No refund" ticket, I think you can use it for the next training if there is one. No refund within 14 days before the training schedule. A hater explained that too so I understood now.
Biggest problem for me is: he never said (as far as i know) ,what qualifications, certificates, education ect. He has..... I grew up around aggressive dogs, trauma to brain tumor as the reasons for their behaviour..... prong collars and chocking them, never worked.... being strict and being abusive are two different things. And DD, tends to mesh those two, too much for my taste. Then again, what do i know, im not from the USA.... ps: .....If countries won't let him fly in and give "seminars".....that tells me enough.
@@MiracleK9Training are you effing serious!?! You're condoning an animal abuser!!! He has history of animal abuse has no certification be training animals nevermind breeding them!
@@bluebus1985 you call seconds of choking animal abuse but rather would have a mentally suffering dog for a lifetime that may even attack others or get itself into trouble. You may think about going "natural" introduce them into a pack of dogs and let the other dogs teach it with biting - but usually those problem dogs are uninhibited while the pack was tought restraint through humans. And you can see those dogs becoming relaxed again - as a dog expert you may know the body language of a scared dog and and outgoing one. THe dogs dont even cryout. Most of the breeds arend couch-dogs, they have muscles and can tolerate physical distress. Dogs live very much in the moment - they memorize doing x gives response y otherwise they wouldnt socialize with other dogs (as they would have learned i my get pinched for doing anything). We dont talk about week long traumatizing abuse here
@@pedroewert143 you are totally oblivious to what this guy did!!! Just simply Google.... 'the truth about Doggie Daddy'... But you need to scroll under the videos he planted there so you couldn't see the truth!
To each his own, I'd be willing in a heartbeat to work with him. I think he's amazing, and the dogs always look happier, calmer and less fearful after he's worked with them just a little bit.
I think the controversy is proof that it is really not a dog problem but a human problem.
agreed.
They envy hims abilities to help owners with their most beloved family member.
I think many that hate on anyone do
I came across dog daddy and the controversy just today on Reddit. There’s an entire movement with petitions to get him cancelled, charged, thrown in jail, banned from certain jurisdictions, etc, etc. people may not like him or his methods, because they seem harsh to the sensitive eyes of “dog mommies and daddies” who have never had a truly aggressive or dominant animal (imo). All of the cuddling, nurturing and sweet talk in the world won’t take an animal with a wild or dangerous streak. I am not a dog trainer, but I’ve had every possible disposition to be found in a dog now with my most recent large mix breed. He NEEDS to be physically dominated just as an alpha wolf will to a strong beta challenging his position, or else he will become very threatening and will not listen to anything or any one.
That must be Karens families !
there is a very very strong push of people against him.
If DD is hiding his techniques why does he film in public in open spaces????
I’d agree with that
I am 100% with him and if i would have a dog and my dog will not behave like i want to .. i would go through his videos :)
thanks for watching!
I think one thing that might help DD is to have an About Me section on his website and explain how this came to be. Where did he get his skills etc.
i don't think the people that criticize him would give much of a shit about that.
Every dog daddy is bad video I just watched literally showed SECONDS of footage. Just paused on one or two tough moments where a dog was losing their shit lol. They talk so much about oh ouch that hurt the dog but not one I would’ve done this instead or maybe this would work.
People love to point the finger and criticize but never offer actual advice just picking apart seconds. Literally one video was paused they were talking the whole time about 2-3 seconds 🤣
Not one person will show up and show a “better way” to handle it. I’m pretty sick of it.
People who judge him didn't look at his history with all kinds of animals in his country. He learned animal behavior basically by observing them in their packs. No book training can teach that. Just like Cesar Milian the dog whispers. He had the same background. He learned from being in a country with stray dogs. Through his observations he learned about how they behave in packs. I'm a retired special ed teacher who taught autistic children for 27 yrs. I had never worked with this population before. There were times I felt frustrated that I couldn't get through them. Sometimes to teach them things looked like unacceptable. For example, if you asked a child to sit down and he has a tantrum you have to find ways. First you ask them to sit. Not complying you nudge them into the seat. You stand behind them and every time they try to get up, nudge their shoulders down until he sits. Continue with out saying a sound until they get it and stay sitting then you reward them by saying "good job" eventually they get it. Some people look at it as being mean but the goal is for the child to fit in society and get an opportunity to learn. I'm proud to say that I've had students
with autism with terrible behaviors and tantrums that went on to become a pharmacist and more. Just like in the dog world who train the handlers, I used to train the parents. I would tell parents to put their emotions aside and do what's best for their child. Stop feeling guilty, because your child is different at the end you'll feel prouder with their accomplishments. So for those who think that Dog daddy and Cesar Milan are abusive I totally disagree. I have my master's in special education and I never learned my techniques from a book. All my students loved me as well as their parents. I feel proud that all my students are functioning in our society. The thing that I learned from the books was that when your changing behavior, when you begin, the bad behavior will go up, and then it will go down. The same when Dog daddy gets the dog the dog will protest by getting anxious, and fights back, once the dog learns that he's not going to stop he gives in and knows who's in charge. Just like when other teacher's would ask me wow how did you get Johnny to sit? My response and my motto was "I do it Until!" and "I mean what I say"
It's very rewarding. Behavior is Behavior. So address the behavior, NOT the child or the dog. Sorry for the long response. It just bothers me when people say stuff without understanding behaviors. Always remember who is in charge. 😊
I think in general there is too much judgement thrown around. He’s helping dogs and owners and that’s what matters to me.
@@MiracleK9Training Probably the worst case is that the owners of dogs are worse then the dogs. If they don't like the results they have, even if they don't keep up the training etc. then they can make all sorts of accusations about Dog Daddy and his training methods.
Dog Daddy works with extreme cases where the dogs and owners have lost all hope and the dogs may need to be put down due to their aggressive fear behaviors. He understands that the dogs respond due to fears, that they need to be shown they don't need to be afraid.
The dog needs to know that the owner is in control and won't take them into situations that will be harmful and that they can trust the owner. I have no idea about dog daddy and money owed etc. but seriously how could he continue to work if all these hate-filled accusations were true?
The dogs all look much happier after working with him, even a short time, and I'd say it's nothing short of amazing to see the results. I agree if all the rumors were true, he'd be in jail, and so far, he isn't.
@@brendakauffman2222 I’d agree for sure
Great explanation! Thank you for sharing.
You nailed it!!!! He works wonders with these dogs and teaches the owners, so they can continue with their dogs!!!!! Totally support him!
I am a huge fan of Dog Daddy. He knows dogs and how to work and communicate with them. Dogs are not humans and they don’t communicate like humans. They have a pack mentality and do not have the same emotions and responses as humans. Dog Daddy knows dog communications.
Anyone who gets results is good in my books
@@MiracleK9TrainingCIA says they're a results driven organization/"firm" lamo 😂😅
@@MiracleK9Training
Oop, I mean you can beat the shit out of a dog and it’ll work and “get results” 🫠
But I don’t see D.D as problematic, I just thought your statement was silly 😅
Dog Daddy is like Michael Jackson...no matter what you say about him we still love him!
😂😂😂 the comparison is great
Can’t find the actual allegations or video but from what I’ve seen, he deals with some of the most difficult dogs out there, from many places around the world.
He has helped thousands of owners but unfortunately, the more humans we come into contact with, the more likely the chance that someone will bad-mouth us and find fault.
As a ratio, surely we can all see the good that this guy has done and is doing.
Can anyone truly state they have ‘never‘ done or said anything they regretted afterwards?
Come on- Please give the guy a break. He’s publicly apologised.
Obviously depends on what was done but based on my looking into it I couldn’t find much substantial
What gets me is that people have a strong opinion about what someone is doing because they don't like what they see!! In this case, unless you're a dog trainer, what or how he does what he does doesn't require your feedback especially if his methods garner the expected results!! People want to tell other people how to raise their kids, what car to drive or how to talk to people! Get a fvcking life, you're not that important or influential that your opinion really matters!!
But did you ask him about his TOILETING HABITS? Know what I heard? He puts his toilet paper in the "problematic" paper down position.
😂😂😂😂
cant speak to what kind of man dog daddy is as i never met him but i can say his methods are clearly effective! He seems to understand the pack mentality and how to interact with them. to say he is hurting these dogs deliberately is just showing your ignorance of how pack mentality works. The leader is the leader. and will fight if challenged IF a dog in the pack misbehaves the leader corrects him and no he is not nice about it!!! no one would call that animal cruelty. Dogs have a a natural fight or flight instinct and letting them suffer in fear is sick and cruel. IF he was cruel, you would never see the dog accept him as a leader. In almost all his videos you can clearly see the dog get over its fear and almost immediately put their trust in him say all hateful stuff you want but the dogs have clearly spoken on the matter. as for this so called vet expert, i have never seen a single video of him dealing with a scared or red zone dog...wonder why that is???
I agree with what you said. I’m not here to judge a character of someone I’ve never personally met. And I have some reservations about some of his tactics. But none the less he is helping people and that’s really what I care about
I think one problem is him trying to grow his business on his own. I think it would help him to get endorsement either by a well liked celebrity or a partnership with an established dog business. It's hard when you are doing things in a different way than practiced methods, especially without much support you inevitably rub some people the wrong way
@@angelabach9821 maybe
There are always people looking for a free ride… clout chasing, hating ..whichever way and however they can get noticed..destroying peoples lives.. It’s despicable…setting up whole pages surrounding the accomplishments of successful entrepreneurs because they are deadbeats.. what a world we live in..
Agreed. Not a fan of it either.
vengan teacher?
I am a fan of dog daddy, and I will continue to be a huge fan❤❤
Seems like a good guy!
He is wow ! Action says everything !
I came across the DD stuff pretty recent… I’m actually a very big THOMAS DAVIS fan ❤
And some of their training is pretty similar. My husband is in school he is working on training aggressive bully breeds (common in our area). We are training a pair of male GSD right now, one bites people.
Our entire complex spread rumors about this family even to us, speaking poorly of these dogs… and the trainer working with her told her to walk both dogs together NEVER SEPARATED!! 😭 BRUH
So she was walking 2 male GSD alone… this is a very small female married to another woman… these poor women!
So we finally met her without service dogs (mastiff & a chonky beagle 🙄 she’s on a diet!) LOL
So we ask her about all of this and she says she paid this trainer 2600$!!! her dogs are chaos…
We showed her what separating the dogs would look like and told her that dog is unconfident on leash and the other is aggressively unconfident.
So we show her he takes one out THIS GSD army crawled!!! like DUDE he’s 3 years old! 😭
The other dog was fine but like a dominant personality (I don’t mean dominant aggressive or whatever people say lol) he was like u know puff ur chest out and act tough hah 😂 but like is actually just protecting mama and like the other under confident dog.
It’s crazy what I’ve learned… I feel sorry for people who come across bad trainers. I don’t think DD has bad training but he is a bit rough at times with some dogs I have seen.
I like Thomas Davis ❤
I think the two of them are wildly different. thanks for watching!
If u watch his vids he gets control of the dog with a choke chain but it doesnt damge the dog in any way and ot clearly works. The dog could seriously injure someone and woukd be destroyed shouldnthat happen so what's the big deal? Making kissy faces and trying to give treats to a dog that wants your throat wont work
I thnk the key is that the dogs are potentially dangerous and need to be under control.
i thought he was someone worth working with and i bought an observer ticket for a class of his, then i discovered all the controversy and started feeling doubtful and tried to get a refund and they wouldn’t give it to me since they saw a comment of mine on social media bad mouthing them and they called me out on it lmao i thought that was ridiculous, and they refused my refund. there is a fb group that posts evidence and video footage of all those allegations.
i guess it’s just hard to tell if he is truly successful from just the short clips he posts. he confronts the dog head on and makes them realize there is no need to fear anyone, and the dog seems to submit after that, but okay, then what happens? how does the owner continue this training at home? that’s what i’m conflicted with. the owners aren’t going to find anyone to practice that confrontation. i’m just curious about that part, which is the most important..the consistency of working with your dog with tools you apparently learned during one lesson. (a lesson that costs $400 and it’s not even a private…. owners are paying for his gucci tracksuits and 20 min of individual 1:1 training lol).
Everyone can make their own decision. He has a lot of good testimonials from people he’s worked with. But unless you work with him or any other trainer you won’t know for yourself.
You couldn’t get a refund, did you end up going? Can’t quite tell. Only see his Instagram post, there’s always music on top, not him speaking. Guessing he must give a lot of verbal direction. And looks like you can record it. Interesting that you can get an observer ticket.
@@dddgoo2980 i was not able to get a refund. i even went through my bank and it was still denied. it’s hard to trust trainers that just do these single day lessons and then “fix” the dog.
what kind of scumbag tries to get a refund 😂😂I think we know who the dum dum is.poor liberals
Keep watching their videos and you come to know him giving training to the owners as well. That is why you see him talking a lot more in his videos. Giving homework to do for the owners. For the "No refund" ticket, I think you can use it for the next training if there is one. No refund within 14 days before the training schedule. A hater explained that too so I understood now.
Biggest problem for me is: he never said (as far as i know) ,what qualifications, certificates, education ect. He has.....
I grew up around aggressive dogs, trauma to brain tumor as the reasons for their behaviour..... prong collars and chocking them, never worked.... being strict and being abusive are two different things. And DD, tends to mesh those two, too much for my taste.
Then again, what do i know, im not from the USA....
ps: .....If countries won't let him fly in and give "seminars".....that tells me enough.
The proof is in the pudding.
I dont understand how anyone can watch him or support his practices, DD has wayyyy to many res flags for me
I think its debatable how he presents himself, but I don't think what he is doing is much different than many many other trainers out there.
I DO ! and will always do ;) Who cares about your opinion
😮 too much talking... what's the dam controversy? Gttfp....
Be patient young one :)
his dog training looks legit
He’s solid
@@MiracleK9Training are you effing serious!?! You're condoning an animal abuser!!! He has history of animal abuse has no certification be training animals nevermind breeding them!
@@bluebus1985 can you point me in the direction of criminal dog abuse charges? Seems everything anyone says is speculation or opinion.
@@bluebus1985 you call seconds of choking animal abuse but rather would have a mentally suffering dog for a lifetime that may even attack others or get itself into trouble. You may think about going "natural" introduce them into a pack of dogs and let the other dogs teach it with biting - but usually those problem dogs are uninhibited while the pack was tought restraint through humans.
And you can see those dogs becoming relaxed again - as a dog expert you may know the body language of a scared dog and and outgoing one. THe dogs dont even cryout. Most of the breeds arend couch-dogs, they have muscles and can tolerate physical distress.
Dogs live very much in the moment - they memorize doing x gives response y otherwise they wouldnt socialize with other dogs (as they would have learned i my get pinched for doing anything). We dont talk about week long traumatizing abuse here
@@pedroewert143 you are totally oblivious to what this guy did!!! Just simply Google.... 'the truth about Doggie Daddy'... But you need to scroll under the videos he planted there so you couldn't see the truth!
clearly you don't understand how and why state laws work and why he moves from state to state with reguarity
If you say so.
prove it, or stfu
5k subscribers 😂😂 of course you made this video with 5k subscribers your basically talking to yourself
What are you even talking about?
He's a horrible trainer
Ok
Oh shut up what planet are you living on
Never would I trust him to train my dog
That’s fine
To each his own, I'd be willing in a heartbeat to work with him. I think he's amazing, and the dogs always look happier, calmer and less fearful after he's worked with them just a little bit.
@@brendakauffman2222 That's not the way to handle a dog. Sorry I love my animals
@@brendakauffman2222 There are a lot better. He's not the one to trust
@@MiracleK9Training People need to care more for their pets. Research sorry I wouldn't trust you
Disgusting to see people defending animal abuse too.
Well that would be true, but no one here is abusing animals, or defending that. For sure Augusto is not.
Where's the abuse?