Nothing sounds like an MPC 60, they sound so damn good raw. Sometimes you don't even need any processing on it cuz it sounds so full. And yes, the samples in the MPC 60 are 12 bit and the DAC is 16 bit. So what you're hearing is 12 bit audio played back at 16 bit, which gives an ever so slightly different timbre. It doesn't magically add more resolution to the original file tho of course, all the characteristic "crunch" (or quantization noise) is still in the sample's waveform. But the 16 bit output stage supposedly smooths out the waveform just a little bit by reconstructing it at a higher resolution than the file was stored, so the playback of the actual data samples in the audio file have a little more vertical wiggle room sort of lol. It's subtle but I think that's part of what gives the 60 its sound, and i think it has a subtle EQ signature maybe at the input stage or something, and of course the preamp sounds dope Also in case you didn't know, recording at a higher pitch and pitching it back down an octave is effectively reducing the sample rate by half. So that's the sample rate workaround for a lot of akai samplers, and it has a different timbre than simply recording at a lower sample rate because the input filter cutoff freq is also reduced by half, along with some other artifacts that get pitched down at the input stage. It sounds pretty different than traditional sample rate redux like on the p6, but you can get some cool aliasing sounds with it sometimes
Lol what? You do realize that Ricky was using the P6 in a very narrow range to do as close of an A/B comparison to the MPC 60ii as possible, right? The P6 has a way WAY wider range of colorization for the samples put into it.
Very interesting. I just bought a P6 2 days ago, and have an MPC2000 in storage, so was thinking about the same tests, but couldn't do them as I don't currently have access to the AKAI. I think it's incredible what Roland have squeezed into that tiny box for 200 bucks, but the MPC is a proper bit of pro gear and a timeless classic that will always be a useful instrument, for studio and live work.
I have a 60, love it so much, I really feel like it has no grit tho. It’s very, very clean compared even to my 16 bit S1000. Its just whatever it does to the low end, is incredible. I feel like it’s down to the DACs.
P6 sounds pretty good but as a mk2 user i definitely feel its a stripped back version but with granular synthesis added to make it more worth it. Still seems tempting with built in mic. They sound kinda close but i think that mpc is so beefy, worth the racks
The P6 is able to do a lot. The functionality is its strength. However, the workflow can be tedious, and you can’t save projects. The circuit rhythm is much more straight forward in how much you can do but the workflow is heaven sent. I think it’s the most intuitive groove box out there as it pertains to workflow. super fun. plus you can save projects. Hope that helps.
I mention it in the video, what im chasing is character. I'm not necessarily comparing the sample rate, more just the sound and if I like it :) It's basically comparing 2 different distortion units haha! Thanks for watching
@@RickyTinez you can get more character out of the P6 by turning on LOFI on the lower sample rate samples, and dialling it in (reducing it a bit), which brings back some highs and adds crunch / cosmic dust sparkle haha. I like to sample at 22 or 44 for stuff with lots of high frequency that you want to preserve, and use the filter to tweak it a bit, and the lower rates for bass lines, kicks etc that are more low frequency focused. The Sampletrak is still my favourite box for a vibe, but the P6 immediacy, chromatic sample playback, sequencer are really dope. The size makes it a travel everywhere box, and like you said, the microphone is dope. Thanks for the vid.
To bring out the harmonics of a low sample rate on the P6, turn on the lofi button (like on the 404sx). BUT you can actually adjust the amount the lofi effect adds to the sample playback with Shift + Lofi (select lofi with the value knob and enter) you can back the lofi effect waaaaay back or crush it beyond recognition. You can get that mpc60 sound with that function for sure.
I’d recommend anyone interested in this to up on Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem, basically you’ll get up to half of the sample rate frequency in frequency representation (so 5500hz at 11kHz sampling rate) before you get really ugly aliasing. This is why 44.1kHz was chosen as a sampling rate for many things dating back to Sony and compact discs back in 1979, because humans don’t generally hear above 20kHz - really more like 16k for most people, and the stuff up there isn’t musical anyway. Maybe people like the way it sounds, but bit-crushing has always sounded just bad to me. Tape and transformer saturation or tube overdrive with harmonics sound more natural IMO, but I get that sometimes that’s the point. It’s another tool for expression and it’s not like no hits were made using these techniques, just bugs me on a technical level. I feel like some of what we’re hearing with the MPC giving that “trumpet” sound on the synth is it applying some filter envelope at the beginning, like during the pad being depressed, is it applying velocity while that’s occurring so it ramps to open over maybe 50-100ms?
I am soooo close to getting another MPC for the 3.0 software haha, but im equally in-line for another MPC 1000. Right now I only have the 60ii and the 4000
hey Ricky.. I started your video . and 1 min into the test I think it's over already the Mpc bass is already heavier and fuller ... I immediately noticed that...
Man....Ricky needs to spend more time with the P6. Ricky start pitching, resampling and using that lofi button!!! You can get any amount of high-end dialed back in with it LOFI after you downsample. The drums knock on that thing. Love you Ricky...but youre perpetuating the old guard here!!!
Sample rate reduction has exactly the effect of loosing the high end. There's nothing we can do about it. It's the whole Nyquist/Shannon sampling theorem: max frequency you'll be able to reproduce is half your sampling rate.
Bytes or Battery from Native Instruments is closest to old hardware imo. But the bit crusher on the MC-101/707/Roland Cloud will get you very close as well. I am guessing that’s what Roland put in that thing tbh. For a small hardware sampler I am sticking with the Microgranny because it has way longer sample times, and I am annoyed Roland does not disclose the bit rate on this box and will not allow me to load my own samples into Zenology software (have to load into MC101/707 or buy the P6).
Ricky, at 44.1 they sounded the same (at least through RUclips). If using the 44.1, the P-6 could substitute the MPC, not? with a little tweaking maybe? Tweaking: when lowering an octave of a lower sampled, it will lose more of everything, not only high end... but, hi end is more notorious because you are longing the wave.... so.... maybe EQ or, I don't know if the P-6 has it, add from a Noise generator...
it's weird when new mpcs came out I could sense a lot of differences between sounds of them and mpc 60 in your videos but now it's like I hear a lot of similarity, the normal not distorted sound, sounds almost identical to my mpc one but the tripping part is why I have this feeling now but didn't had it before is it cause it's next to a completely another brand or do they just worked the sound through firmwares
OK, I am a bit puzzled why you are surprised that when you lower the sample rate you lose the high end. That's pretty logical. The sample rate determines up to which frequency you can record music; any frequency above the Nyquist Frequency cannot be reproduced (but cause aliasing). The Nyquist frequency is - by definition - at 50% of the sample rate. So, that means, at 44.1kHz, the max frequency is 22.05kHz (which is above the max human range, therefore the standard for CDs etc). And at 11kHz, the max. frequency is 5.5kHz. Anything above gets lost; therefore no highend.
I got the Yamaha SU-10 the other day and after listening to this... I have a feeling that the P-6 lo-fi grades/modes are fake. Even at the lowest grade, 11.64Khz, with the system pitch all down to -20%, my SU-10 still retains the crispiness in the high frequencies although extra crunchy. The P-6 on the other hand completely obliterates the highs, it make me wonder if instead of sampling at lower rates it's just applying an aggressive LPF. I don't know man, I was almost on the verge of getting one, but after this comparison I feel like the lo-fi modes are borderline scam. I'll be keeping my newly acquired Yamaha SU-10 with all its limitations and pass on the P-6. And that MPC60 sounds absolutely divine.
I’d recommend anyone interested in this to up on Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem, basically you’ll get up to half of the sample rate frequency in frequency representation (so 5500hz at 11kHz sampling rate) before you get really ugly aliasing. This is why 44.1kHz was chosen as a sampling rate for many things dating back to Sony and compact discs back in 1979, because humans don’t generally hear above 20kHz - really more like 16k for most people, and the stuff up there isn’t musical anyway. Maybe people like the way it sounds, but bit-crushing has always sounded just bad to me. Tape and transformer saturation or tube overdrive with harmonics sound more natural IMO, but I get that sometimes that’s the point. It’s another tool for expression and it’s not like no hits were made using these techniques, just bugs me on a technical level.
Appreciate you not naming this "P-6 the MPC Killer" 😂
LOL I was hoping I wouldn't have to! they definitely have their own sound
It only took 36 years to produce a better sampler. 😂
This took a lot of self-restraint.
@@MaDmanEXELOL!! Right!
Ricky just has an emotional connection to the 60ii....that's important tho
Nothing sounds like an MPC 60, they sound so damn good raw. Sometimes you don't even need any processing on it cuz it sounds so full.
And yes, the samples in the MPC 60 are 12 bit and the DAC is 16 bit. So what you're hearing is 12 bit audio played back at 16 bit, which gives an ever so slightly different timbre. It doesn't magically add more resolution to the original file tho of course, all the characteristic "crunch" (or quantization noise) is still in the sample's waveform. But the 16 bit output stage supposedly smooths out the waveform just a little bit by reconstructing it at a higher resolution than the file was stored, so the playback of the actual data samples in the audio file have a little more vertical wiggle room sort of lol. It's subtle but I think that's part of what gives the 60 its sound, and i think it has a subtle EQ signature maybe at the input stage or something, and of course the preamp sounds dope
Also in case you didn't know, recording at a higher pitch and pitching it back down an octave is effectively reducing the sample rate by half. So that's the sample rate workaround for a lot of akai samplers, and it has a different timbre than simply recording at a lower sample rate because the input filter cutoff freq is also reduced by half, along with some other artifacts that get pitched down at the input stage. It sounds pretty different than traditional sample rate redux like on the p6, but you can get some cool aliasing sounds with it sometimes
Roland repackaging its bit crusher effect from Roland Cloud if I had to guess.
Nothing touches the OG
Key spot in this video. To some it sounds one way. To some, it sounds another way. Therefore one isn’t better. As stated, both are dope.
Nailed it!
Reverb thanks you. Everyone now wants an MPC60.
Lol what? You do realize that Ricky was using the P6 in a very narrow range to do as close of an A/B comparison to the MPC 60ii as possible, right? The P6 has a way WAY wider range of colorization for the samples put into it.
MPC 60 looks and sounds beautiful
Very interesting. I just bought a P6 2 days ago, and have an MPC2000 in storage, so was thinking about the same tests, but couldn't do them as I don't currently have access to the AKAI. I think it's incredible what Roland have squeezed into that tiny box for 200 bucks, but the MPC is a proper bit of pro gear and a timeless classic that will always be a useful instrument, for studio and live work.
Great footage, I paid for mine 3 weeks ago here in Oz, still WAITING..!!
I have a 60, love it so much, I really feel like it has no grit tho. It’s very, very clean compared even to my 16 bit S1000. Its just whatever it does to the low end, is incredible. I feel like it’s down to the DACs.
I usually can't hear the difference on youtube comparisons but the MPC sounded 100x better.
The 60ii just has a vibe. It’s an artifact of its day and I just love it so much. Glad you are hanging on to yours!
P6 sounds pretty good but as a mk2 user i definitely feel its a stripped back version but with granular synthesis added to make it more worth it. Still seems tempting with built in mic. They sound kinda close but i think that mpc is so beefy, worth the racks
Excellent comparison. Been loving the shit out of the p-6.
I need to decide what sampler to get between the P6 and Circuit Rhythm, so more of this type of video would be appreciated.
The P6 is able to do a lot. The functionality is its strength. However, the workflow can be tedious, and you can’t save projects. The circuit rhythm is much more straight forward in how much you can do but the workflow is heaven sent. I think it’s the most intuitive groove box out there as it pertains to workflow. super fun. plus you can save projects. Hope that helps.
The 12 bits of the MPC 60 (II) make the difference. It's audible on more complex sounds, like synths. 12 bits eat texture.
So happy you uploaded. I love the visuals of your videos.
I don’t know why you would choose the low sample rates on the P-6 when trying to compare them against the 40Khz of the 60.
I mention it in the video, what im chasing is character. I'm not necessarily comparing the sample rate, more just the sound and if I like it :) It's basically comparing 2 different distortion units haha! Thanks for watching
@@RickyTinez you can get more character out of the P6 by turning on LOFI on the lower sample rate samples, and dialling it in (reducing it a bit), which brings back some highs and adds crunch / cosmic dust sparkle haha. I like to sample at 22 or 44 for stuff with lots of high frequency that you want to preserve, and use the filter to tweak it a bit, and the lower rates for bass lines, kicks etc that are more low frequency focused. The Sampletrak is still my favourite box for a vibe, but the P6 immediacy, chromatic sample playback, sequencer are really dope. The size makes it a travel everywhere box, and like you said, the microphone is dope. Thanks for the vid.
Cool vid Ricky,
Waiting on my p6 also.
More Mpc vids please
great shirt, Ricky. 🙏🏼💜🤖
To bring out the harmonics of a low sample rate on the P6, turn on the lofi button (like on the 404sx). BUT you can actually adjust the amount the lofi effect adds to the sample playback with Shift + Lofi (select lofi with the value knob and enter) you can back the lofi effect waaaaay back or crush it beyond recognition. You can get that mpc60 sound with that function for sure.
That's cool and all…but what about that TONVERK? 😂
Just kidding, love your videos! Thank you 🙏
I’d recommend anyone interested in this to up on Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem, basically you’ll get up to half of the sample rate frequency in frequency representation (so 5500hz at 11kHz sampling rate) before you get really ugly aliasing. This is why 44.1kHz was chosen as a sampling rate for many things dating back to Sony and compact discs back in 1979, because humans don’t generally hear above 20kHz - really more like 16k for most people, and the stuff up there isn’t musical anyway.
Maybe people like the way it sounds, but bit-crushing has always sounded just bad to me. Tape and transformer saturation or tube overdrive with harmonics sound more natural IMO, but I get that sometimes that’s the point. It’s another tool for expression and it’s not like no hits were made using these techniques, just bugs me on a technical level.
I feel like some of what we’re hearing with the MPC giving that “trumpet” sound on the synth is it applying some filter envelope at the beginning, like during the pad being depressed, is it applying velocity while that’s occurring so it ramps to open over maybe 50-100ms?
Damnit Ricky..My question is, hypothetically speaking, if I were to be on my lunch break…can I make it to guitar center and back within 30mins? Lol
What MPCs do you still own Ricky? And have you checked out the MPC 3.0?
I am soooo close to getting another MPC for the 3.0 software haha, but im equally in-line for another MPC 1000. Right now I only have the 60ii and the 4000
Even if the samplers sounded identical, the 60 would still have an untouchable sequencer feel.
didn't know about the p-6, yet... 😲
hey Ricky.. I started your video . and 1 min into the test I think it's over already the Mpc bass is already heavier and fuller ... I immediately noticed that...
The P-6 sounds like the thin sounding cheap DAC that is inside of it. No comparison.
Man....Ricky needs to spend more time with the P6. Ricky start pitching, resampling and using that lofi button!!! You can get any amount of high-end dialed back in with it LOFI after you downsample. The drums knock on that thing.
Love you Ricky...but youre perpetuating the old guard here!!!
Sample rate reduction has exactly the effect of loosing the high end. There's nothing we can do about it. It's the whole Nyquist/Shannon sampling theorem: max frequency you'll be able to reproduce is half your sampling rate.
I just watch it on my iPad Pro without headphones and I am 52, and notis some differences 🇩🇰😉
Bytes or Battery from Native Instruments is closest to old hardware imo. But the bit crusher on the MC-101/707/Roland Cloud will get you very close as well. I am guessing that’s what Roland put in that thing tbh. For a small hardware sampler I am sticking with the Microgranny because it has way longer sample times, and I am annoyed Roland does not disclose the bit rate on this box and will not allow me to load my own samples into Zenology software (have to load into MC101/707 or buy the P6).
Ricky, at 44.1 they sounded the same (at least through RUclips). If using the 44.1, the P-6 could substitute the MPC, not? with a little tweaking maybe?
Tweaking: when lowering an octave of a lower sampled, it will lose more of everything, not only high end... but, hi end is more notorious because you are longing the wave.... so.... maybe EQ or, I don't know if the P-6 has it, add from a Noise generator...
always wanted to try the mpc-60 you really cant beat that jawn. great video
it's weird
when new mpcs came out I could sense a lot of differences between sounds of them and mpc 60 in your videos
but now it's like I hear a lot of similarity, the normal not distorted sound, sounds almost identical to my mpc one
but the tripping part is why I have this feeling now but didn't had it before
is it cause it's next to a completely another brand or do they just worked the sound through firmwares
who knows! sound is such a nuanced subject right? Even comparing 2 analog 808s sound different from one another!
so glad you picked this up ricky just got mine and followed along with this and it blew my mind, hope you do more content with p-6!
OK, I am a bit puzzled why you are surprised that when you lower the sample rate you lose the high end. That's pretty logical. The sample rate determines up to which frequency you can record music; any frequency above the Nyquist Frequency cannot be reproduced (but cause aliasing). The Nyquist frequency is - by definition - at 50% of the sample rate. So, that means, at 44.1kHz, the max frequency is 22.05kHz (which is above the max human range, therefore the standard for CDs etc). And at 11kHz, the max. frequency is 5.5kHz. Anything above gets lost; therefore no highend.
Don't you think you should mention the Model:Samples, which the P-6 is very obviously based on?
If the room is on fire 🔥 and u can save only one of these pieces of gear, which one do you save?
But what if the P6 could fit into my pocket?....can I try to save them both?....
okay i want the mpc60
ILL T SHIRT!!!!
If you can't get your hands on an mpc 60, what do you think is the best sounding of the newer samplers?
Octatrack mk2
it's funny I used to hate the sound of the OT, and eventually I grew to love it because of the way it handles samples and stretches them.
a lot of folks sleep on the rack unit samplers like the S900 S950, even the S2000s. Also check out Daydream sound and his vids on the ASR-10 stuff
Not that I' an expert but price and size comparison not withstanding, I'd give the 60 dibs for sound quality. It depends on what's important to you.
The 60 an octave down has the thing happening. The p6 sounds more filtered, which I guess is what lofi is doing
I mean you tried your hardest - but we all have ears.
The MPC60 is an 'absolute unit' in comparison to the p-6 🤣😂 sheesh that thing is a tank broo lol
LOL so true.. it really puts it all into perspective
MPC 30000? Sign me up!
Are you getting paid by Roland to endorse the product?
MPC is adult size the other one is microscopic
It looks like a cash register. But a good one of course.😊
I got the Yamaha SU-10 the other day and after listening to this... I have a feeling that the P-6 lo-fi grades/modes are fake.
Even at the lowest grade, 11.64Khz, with the system pitch all down to -20%, my SU-10 still retains the crispiness in the high frequencies although extra crunchy.
The P-6 on the other hand completely obliterates the highs, it make me wonder if instead of sampling at lower rates it's just applying an aggressive LPF.
I don't know man, I was almost on the verge of getting one, but after this comparison I feel like the lo-fi modes are borderline scam.
I'll be keeping my newly acquired Yamaha SU-10 with all its limitations and pass on the P-6.
And that MPC60 sounds absolutely divine.
Pitch daddy
P-6 sounds like ass next to the MPC to me
not similar at all, the difference is HUGE to be honest
It was a no contest. the MPC sounded amazing and the other one sounded like a toy. It sounded so flimsy and fragile.
I think you missed the point, but there is love for both samplers
sp404mk2 needs the p-6 operating system
haha!
Roland is trash and these rolcas are just the worst
I’d recommend anyone interested in this to up on Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem, basically you’ll get up to half of the sample rate frequency in frequency representation (so 5500hz at 11kHz sampling rate) before you get really ugly aliasing. This is why 44.1kHz was chosen as a sampling rate for many things dating back to Sony and compact discs back in 1979, because humans don’t generally hear above 20kHz - really more like 16k for most people, and the stuff up there isn’t musical anyway.
Maybe people like the way it sounds, but bit-crushing has always sounded just bad to me. Tape and transformer saturation or tube overdrive with harmonics sound more natural IMO, but I get that sometimes that’s the point. It’s another tool for expression and it’s not like no hits were made using these techniques, just bugs me on a technical level.