Shane stated that everything was done before the foundations of the world. Was it done, or was it planned, and then played out in our world? Why does Jesus say we need to be born again, to be of the kingdom, if we are all already in the lambs book of Life, or is that something different again? And what of the new creation. N T Wright suggests that Jesus inaugurated it on the cross - ushered it in and that the Gospel is twofold. It is an announcement of what God has done in Christ, and an invitation to become part of this new thing that God is doing. I am trying to sort it out in my head, but would be good to get Shane's viewpoint on the new creation. Love the sermons - he is a gifted teacher.
"How is it that in the Church gluttony is less of a sin than homosexuality?" - Shane asks at 44:57 of the video 'Ps Shane Willard - Prayer 4 Protecting Love'. Shane, it is not 'in the Church' that gluttony is less of a sin than homosexuality... it IS a lesser sin than homosexuality. What is he trying to say here? That all sins are equal on every level? So what... pedophilia is the same as gluttony too? We all know that God loves everyone equally and that Jesus died for everyone just the same, but this in no way means that certain sins are not more grievous to God than others. Sins absolutely can be categorized as and measured in the light of "to what degree they defame and come against the nature and character of God and by means of how much they interfere with God's will for mankind." The genders were created by God and marriage instituted as a physical microcosm picture of the invisible realities of God and His redemption. The scriptures even relate the nature of the roles between man and wife in a godly marriage setting as mirroring the purposes of God for Christ with His people or bride - the Church. So it is plain to see that the sin of homosexuality greatly dishonors God on that level. Homosexuality is a total smack in the face of God as to His name and will being manifested in what He made and how He ordained for it to function. That extra bag of chips or container of cookies and few extra kg's do not defame and blaspheme God to the same extent as homosexuality. Also, physically speaking homosexuality is a major weapon in Satan's hand against procreation and family as God intended it. Put a bunch of homosexuals on one island and normal heterosexuals on another, come back 100 years later and there will be a bunch of skeletons, and death on one island where the homosexuals were and on the other island you will still have life because God made us to reproduce and procreate for His glory. Shane tries to back up that line regarding gluttony being as bad as homosexuality by pointing out that gluttony is mentioned more times than homosexuality? Seriously Shane? And you studied clinical psychology was it?? What kind of logic is that and what are you trying to say? Well Jesus or the bible never reference pedophilia or necrophilia so does that mean they are okay than? This kind of stuff is very serious when it comes from the mouth of someone standing in a position of authority and is supposed to be preaching the word. Shane, we all suffer and struggle with our own issues, but seriously, we should not be rationalizing them like that. If you are struggling with Homosexuality Shane, and this is a personal battle you deal with in life, this does not give you the right or leeway before God to so trivialize it as you do here and in other places. God is not going to wink at you airing that kind of attitude about the filth of the sin of homosexuality just because you either cannot or refuse to fully see it for what it is. Again, we all struggle with stuff and we are all equal before God intrinsically, but God is displeased with your attitude Shane regarding homosexuality and your approach to it. God help you brother, and God bless you, we love ya.
Bill Wesley stop it! Don't give me that. If your standards of 'love' is not based in truth then it is a lie and not 'love'. I love Shane and I thank God for him. At times, like all of us, he gets things wrong or sees through a bias based on his own struggles and temptations. I do not condemn him for his personal struggles, but I will address error. If, there is no wisdom or truth in my comment then bare record to this and address this within context and honesty. Point out EXACTLY what I said which was not biblically sound or honest. Don't just try and dismiss what I said by saying there is 'no love' in what I said. This does not excuse the facts, nor does it validate what Shane was teaching which was with a strong bias. Jesus is the love of God and the covenant of God in person, but He was also the TRUTH in person as well. If your definition of love, is not based in TRUTH then it is NOT the love of God and not real love.
it seems you missed the whole point of the sermon if you are stuck on the homosexuality/gluttony part of it. we're called to love. Not judge. that was the message. in my mind, anyway. God bless. Not looking for a fight. But what would Jesus say to a homosexual, a prostitute, a homeless man... would it be to provoke and antagonize? Or love? Its a pleasure to exchange ideas with you. Happy holidays.
Shane stated that everything was done before the foundations of the world. Was it done, or was it planned, and then played out in our world? Why does Jesus say we need to be born again, to be of the kingdom, if we are all already in the lambs book of Life, or is that something different again? And what of the new creation. N T Wright suggests that Jesus inaugurated it on the cross - ushered it in and that the Gospel is twofold. It is an announcement of what God has done in Christ, and an invitation to become part of this new thing that God is doing. I am trying to sort it out in my head, but would be good to get Shane's viewpoint on the new creation. Love the sermons - he is a gifted teacher.
"How is it that in the Church gluttony is less of a sin than homosexuality?" - Shane asks at 44:57 of the video 'Ps Shane Willard - Prayer 4 Protecting Love'. Shane, it is not 'in the Church' that gluttony is less of a sin than homosexuality... it IS a lesser sin than homosexuality. What is he trying to say here? That all sins are equal on every level? So what... pedophilia is the same as gluttony too? We all know that God loves everyone equally and that Jesus died for everyone just the same, but this in no way means that certain sins are not more grievous to God than others. Sins absolutely can be categorized as and measured in the light of "to what degree they defame and come against the nature and character of God and by means of how much they interfere with God's will for mankind." The genders were created by God and marriage instituted as a physical microcosm picture of the invisible realities of God and His redemption. The scriptures even relate the nature of the roles between man and wife in a godly marriage setting as mirroring the purposes of God for Christ with His people or bride - the Church. So it is plain to see that the sin of homosexuality greatly dishonors God on that level. Homosexuality is a total smack in the face of God as to His name and will being manifested in what He made and how He ordained for it to function. That extra bag of chips or container of cookies and few extra kg's do not defame and blaspheme God to the same extent as homosexuality.
Also, physically speaking homosexuality is a major weapon in Satan's hand against procreation and family as God intended it. Put a bunch of homosexuals on one island and normal heterosexuals on another, come back 100 years later and there will be a bunch of skeletons, and death on one island where the homosexuals were and on the other island you will still have life because God made us to reproduce and procreate for His glory.
Shane tries to back up that line regarding gluttony being as bad as homosexuality by pointing out that gluttony is mentioned more times than homosexuality? Seriously Shane? And you studied clinical psychology was it?? What kind of logic is that and what are you trying to say? Well Jesus or the bible never reference pedophilia or necrophilia so does that mean they are okay than? This kind of stuff is very serious when it comes from the mouth of someone standing in a position of authority and is supposed to be preaching the word. Shane, we all suffer and struggle with our own issues, but seriously, we should not be rationalizing them like that. If you are struggling with Homosexuality Shane, and this is a personal battle you deal with in life, this does not give you the right or leeway before God to so trivialize it as you do here and in other places. God is not going to wink at you airing that kind of attitude about the filth of the sin of homosexuality just because you either cannot or refuse to fully see it for what it is. Again, we all struggle with stuff and we are all equal before God intrinsically, but God is displeased with your attitude Shane regarding homosexuality and your approach to it. God help you brother, and God bless you, we love ya.
+Mike David Very well written my wife and I discuss, I agreed with Shane she with you You did make me think , Will SEEK GOD Thank you
+Alton Labrecque: God bless you guys. have a great day.
There is no love in what you are saying. you sound like a clanging gong.
Bill Wesley stop it! Don't give me that. If your standards of 'love' is not based in truth then it is a lie and not 'love'. I love Shane and I thank God for him. At times, like all of us, he gets things wrong or sees through a bias based on his own struggles and temptations. I do not condemn him for his personal struggles, but I will address error. If, there is no wisdom or truth in my comment then bare record to this and address this within context and honesty. Point out EXACTLY what I said which was not biblically sound or honest. Don't just try and dismiss what I said by saying there is 'no love' in what I said. This does not excuse the facts, nor does it validate what Shane was teaching which was with a strong bias. Jesus is the love of God and the covenant of God in person, but He was also the TRUTH in person as well. If your definition of love, is not based in TRUTH then it is NOT the love of God and not real love.
it seems you missed the whole point of the sermon if you are stuck on the homosexuality/gluttony part of it. we're called to love. Not judge. that was the message. in my mind, anyway. God bless. Not looking for a fight. But what would Jesus say to a homosexual, a prostitute, a homeless man... would it be to provoke and antagonize? Or love? Its a pleasure to exchange ideas with you. Happy holidays.