It's kind of weird that movies are moving away from deep blacks just as TV companies have started to have a competition for who can show the deepest black.
@@Petahhhhh I think they meant the color grading for any given shot being given enough contrast that the dark parts are practically pitch black, allowing the rest of the colors to pop out more and achieving better balance between them
@@armyofuno8196 yeah I also found it weird that movies like Citizens Kane, sin city,... did this shit long before The Batman, yet they want to bash on The Batman instead. They said stuff like " can't see the faces, too dark" that's literally the point of the movie, you are not supposed to see their faces, but you can still make out shadowy figures/ forms like from noir movies and comic book ,like think about it, Reeves is saying those characters are just side characters, and we are not meant to identify them. Roger Deakins, the greatest cinematographer literally praised the hell out of the movie too. In conclusion, I blame Tik Tok. Edit: search Spider-Man shattered dimension, Spider-Man noir section to specify, you will see what I mean.
@@user-gl2nw4sx1m Anyone that calls The Batman a bad movie but admits to liking Ms. Marvel shouldn't be taken seriously. Come back when you have some taste.
There tools called editing. If they just gonna use whatever video camera get. Then why bother have editing, if they not gonna use it to make color better. Now they just import the video from camera, put it in together and that is. Added some cgi later. No bother touching color
@@themexican8720 that’s my point. We see more details in both the shadows and the highlights making the image seem more flat because we can see more of the detail in both ends of the range. Vs film which naturally has more contrast with those shadows and highlights baked in. We are agreeing
@@exber799 yes. I agree, however, marvel isn’t trying to recreate the look of physical film. Instead they are just using the full dynamic range when color grading which makes it seem more flat. It has both pros and cons. What I’m saying is that film comes out of the camera 90% done and they can only really tint it. They edited way less back when shooting with film
Recently re-watched The Incredible Hulk, and I couldn't believe how good it looked in comparison to today's movies. Really need more films that look like that 🙌
@@andaelee The Suicide Squad, All of Zack Snyder DC movies have this high contrast look with deep shadows and atleast 1 color that pops out of the shot. There is really no technical reason for this soft look in recent movies.
The Batman has the best cinematography in a comic book film. Ever. I feel like the MCU's colour grading before The Avengers was more stylistic and dynamic. Since then only James Gunn's films have actually looked great, every other film looks lifeless and grey like concrete. Exception is Dr Strange 2 and that's only because of Sam Raimi who actually cares about the film's look. I don't get when people say that a film's colour grading and cinematography don't matter, like bro, film is a VISUAL medium.
Umm what? Your opinions are lifeless and so idiotic. Many mcu movies look great and not lifeless. I guess you don't watch any. Many people care about how their visual art looks. Stop being delusional
The Batman best cinematography in a comic book film? No no no. Hate Zack Snyder's choices and story all you want, but so much of those films look like they came straight out of the comic pages, the cinematography in BVS and ZSJL was beautiful and leagues above The Batman.
These movies are made with HDR in mind. SDR versions of movies made with HDR in mind tend to look flat. I don't judge a movie's colors by a SDR trailer.
@@Rezzanine Hollywood has a track record of outsourcing trailer and basic editing to basic editors. I seen some AI upscaled "official remasters" that look awful compared to what I can do. I'm sure you could pull off a better SDR conversion than Mr Wagie Cagie
Bro every movie nowadays is made like that. Not every one of them looks this lifeless. Heck the new joker trailer just came out, and that looks gorgeoous.
A lot of the reason superhero movies are going to a flatter look as of recent is to incorporate more comic book accurate designs to their characters. Having one character in a movie such as iron man makes it easier to colour grade a movie to the character's costume. The problem starts to show when you start adding different characters with contrasting suits to the film like in the avengers where Iron man's red clashed with captain America's blue. The simplest option to make both of the colours stand out was to make the movie flat and have a grey colour grading over the top of it. Almost every superhero movie uses this technique as it makes production much easier with the multitude of colours being shown on screen at a time. This is also why older movies with superheroes like the X-Men used black suits to match the colour grading of the movie much nicer. To summarize, movies are making the colour grading match the character over the characters matching the colour grading.
That’s another reason why I’m not a huge fan of “comic accurate” costumes. If I can recognize the character, and the costume is believable, then I don’t really care about accuracy, but everyone is praising some really cheap and ugly looking designs for the sake of “comic accuracy”
@@TheReeelBradPitt they aren't really cheap, Black leather is cheap, all same design and same color, comic accurate costumes are way better and beautiful to look at
@@theamazingspooderman2697 I’m not talking about 2000’s x men, I’m talking about captain America’s suits in his first two movies, iron man’s early suits, Deadpool’s grimey suit in his first 2 movies, Wonder Woman’s costume, etc. Those suits were nice to look at, we’re still very recognizable, and had some level of believability. what I mean by cheap looking costumes that aren’t believable in the slightest is flash’s new suit, daredevil’s yellow mustard suit, Spider-Man’s golden emblem in Nwh, falcon’s captain America suit, etc
In the international trailer it has the finished color grading and it looks soooo much better color wise Agatha & Captain America 4 also look good visually Also i recommend watching Bumblebee it’s the best LA TF Film
I love Bumblebee but I don’t think the color grading will ever be better than the Arrival to Earth in the first film. Also, nice to see you hear Doomblazer!
Wait which international trailer? But anyway you're mostly right. Agatha looks cool but Captain America 4 still has the same grey, uninspired in any daylight scenes. The inside scenes look alright though.
Bro I think transformers.ers one will be the best transformers movie and if it's a trilogy I just want metroplex to appear and prime to get damaged and get the matrix
I don't think it's just specific to now but every time period had a bad visual trend. Everything in the 2000's had a really annoying piss filter that we shouldn't want to emulate. Even though I had a similar thought recently about Michael Bay's transformers, the movies at some points were the weird mix of green blue and yellow that just looked like chromatic aberration or a siezure. It also needs to be scene specific, the battle scene in the trailer is meant to show a snow white landscape and all the soldiers are wearing white. I think that pops more than the blue Bourne Identity filter applied to it, and it looks better executed than a similar scene at the start of Age of Ultron. Then one of the screenshots was just of Deadpool talking and the newly filtered shot made his mask unnecessarily dark. And yeah, it is more complicated than adding a filter or turning up contrast settings. If the lighting and visual direction is lacking or there is a certain intent not being matched nothing post-filming will fix it.
I know the screenshot you're referring to. It was already clear to me from the start that this is not the original look of the film but rather a downgrade. Someone claimed, this is an SDR version of the HDR film, essentially a downscaled trailer. The edited screenshot 2:58 made it abundantly clear it was altered with a filter.
a few years ago i was talking to my brother about how movies today look so cheap and boring while movies from the 2000's still look much better than today's, i honestly think disney buying everything and pumping 30 movies and series and whatever per year is destroying this industry, remember the CGI artists complaining about how everything was being rushed they were working too much and not being paid properly, meanwhile back in the day they took their time to make ONE movie
0:32 the color grading isnt a problem. There’s no problem in color grading here. Does it have to be very vibrant or saturated to be considered good color grading?
It's kinda like with video games in the late 2000s and early 2010s. Every game either had a yellow piss filter or a grey filter. Compared to then, colours are much more dynamic in games now.
Imma be honest the first time I watched the trailer, I didn't look at the color grading lmao. Feeling like twitter as usual is looking for something to complain as usual
I mean we're practically rearing our heads from the shitshow of the current state of comicbook and big franchise films/shows, so color grading would be the least of our worries. But peeps in the industry or into vfx, these would be second nature to them.
The Batman 2022, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of madness and the spider-verse movies are probably the only comic book movies as of recently that look Vishnuly stunning
Finally something that talks about what I've been kind of feeling after 2010's, stripping away the deeper and darker colour grading and making everything appear like it has light right in face of it (and it looking awful af where it could have been way way better) great to see your video noticing it and not being directed towards the movie only (because it's not like it started such thing anyway)
the companies who have been trying to make things dark and edgy realise that the people want whimsy but haven't realised the people also want dynamic lighting. All the lighting is either pitch black you can only see your face reflected in the screen or dull and lacking shadows 😭
The shots compared doesn't make sense. The Origins movie was indoors and had more dynamic lighting. The new one was from an outdoor scene. Also it seems like every shot that people think is "better" always just intense saturation and unrealistic lighting. The edits just look like a Zack Synder movie, which he had plenty of in the 2000s. Everyone had the templated blue and orange color grading preset. Why is the whites blue in the edit. They're literally in a desert. Yea it looks nice, but it doesn't make sense
@@EthanRom It's not even a desert. It's a fictional wasteland. They could have made it look anyway they wanted. They chose to make it look as bland as possible.
In my honest opinion, I believe the filmmakers color grade a little more flat so that people could adjust the colors and contrast to their liking on their own personal 4K/8K TVs because I personally enjoy customizing the colors and all that on my TV, which is a 72 inch 4K televisioneven the avengers avengers was absolutely stunning with my ability to adjust those settings. I know that’s not everyone’s preference but definitely get into like customizing the settings on your television pretty cool.
That’s simply the look of Deadpool movies since the first one. They go for “realistic” grey lighting to make it a bit grittier and less flashy. Having said that, you’re not wrong that maybe too many movies use a similar look. I think specifically for Marvel it’s the Joss Whedon effect who made that look popular with the first Avengers. Flat contrast with a saturated colors reminiscent of sitcom.
It’s all factors: lighting, camera choice, lenses and grading. X-Men Origins Wolverine was shot on film, which more or less has a baked in look straight out of camera and graded in an era before HDR screens. Deadpool and Wolverine is shot on Alexa LF in raw digital and probably graded for a HDR finish. HDR is much flatter than SDR (Rec709) and raw digital video from an Alexa camera has extensive flexibility to set a “look” chosen by the DP, director and colourist. In a HDR workflow most filmmakers can get carried away with preserving black detail and highlight rather than committing to a high contrast look, such as Kodak negative film stock. Older is better in my opinion, but digital can look awesome if you forget technical requirements and just go for pure aggressive creativity
@@exber799 it really depends on the environment, this is like a white void that they’re in, compare the origins wolverine shot to the shot of Logan in the bar from DP3, you’ll see what I’m talking about. Besides, I’ve already seen the first 30 and it looks even better than the trailers
Thing is if it’s in a cold environment, shouldn’t the color grading look like that in DP&W? Cuz the first is sweaty and hot but the next is cold. Idk maybe they either are trying to be realistic even tho it’s duller or it’s just another part of VFX teams getting like no time way too often, especially for big block busters. As for the hair he also has to wear a cowl so I kinda get it. Also did we just forget about spiderverse, John wick, bad boys, furiosa, dune, ect. Cuz they got color. Why do people seem to have forgotten we still got recent movies with vibrant colors
Dude yeah exactly, it's hilarious because dune part 2 and furiosa are the two best looking movies of the year so far (honorable mention to challengers) and they literally take place in a desert lol, I don't doubt many aspects of this movie were extremely rushed, wasn't it supposed to come out at the end of the year originally or something? But it really doesn't justify how damn ugly it looks
People take criticism of things they like as personal insults it’s exhausting, the average movie these days looks like it was filmed by the same cameras as the office. I hate it
It's funny that you mention that you think the Transformers movies had "good" color grading when it was oversaturated piss. Every single actor looked like they had Donald Trump's orange man tan, and the colors were way too poppy. But you do you.
Yeah it’s cause of the way he edits. Any RUclipsr now can edit like this and it’s mad annoying and not funny. Back then this type of editing was still pretty uncommon and not over saturated like it is today
A great recent marvel's color grading example is Loki, which honestly had great visual art and contrast and great grading. Proving they can infact do it if they wanted to. They for some reason just don't. unfortunate..
Bro just watch bumblebee and rise of the beats their not even connected to bayverse it’s completely it’s own thing I’m starting to hate it when people compare those
Marvel's always had this issue with their cinematography/colour grading. Apart from Guardians of the Galaxy and maybe a couple of others they all have that flat, slightly colourless look to them. It's not that it's inherently bad colour grading. I think the issue is in a lot of these instances the look of the film isn't matching the story/tone.
One thing to note. Lighting is one of the 3 most important part of a scene and proper lighting (not necessarily good lighting a lot of things can be improved with poor lighting. What is proper depends on the scene). Lighting can hide things you shouldn't see. Highlight things you should notice. And change the mood of something overall. So it is almost as important as placement of scenery and roughly tied with the audio side (dialogue and music).
I like the more natural looking colors for a comedy, high contrast with lots of shadows fits better for a serious tone. Marvel movies are generally very lighthearted so it makes sense that they go for sitcom-esque lighting.
Hello from India 🇮🇳, In my opinion one reasone why they have contrast film to zero is now a day movie release in theater in 3D format. and it is realy hard to watch dark scenes in 3D glass.
This has been a problem that i dont see going away anytime soon, endgame was just a bore to watch at some points because the whole movie was just so dull and lifeless
YES THE FUCKING HAIR!! LIKE, WHY NO ONE MENTION IT???? They make Logan looks like he's balding. Or they want to give him Naruto dad haircut? If they don't want to wait for the hair grow longer, can't they just use wig?
I love that your thumbnail points to the color grading in x-men origins: wolverine as "dynamic". Like, okay! I can now see how unimportant color grading is! 😂
I read it's because flat lighting allows marvel to be really flexible and change effects and direction very late. If you have harsh shadows on half of someone's face, you can't later as easily change how you want the shot to look
The same thing happens with video games, for a while all the games coming out were basically run through a filter to color grade them all the same. Many games were just brown and dingy without any color, then games were kinda blue for a bit
It’s shot on film vs digital as well. Film has a more real natural look to it, and using it requires pre-production planning that leads to more interesting shots as well. Not to mention that most high budget movies like DP are mostly shot in green screen.
Watching this and reading some of the comments makes me actually want to die at points lol. I work in film, not at the scale of marvel films what so ever, but as a cinematographer on medium to low budget films, commercials and music videos. Let me explain how a look like this comes about: For the quick, TLDR; half of filmmaking once budgets go over a certain range, and I mean anything above £20k a day, is politics, and filmmakers for major productions don't get as much choice unless they're established, so what happens is you if know the property you're (deadpool, batman, thor ext.) watching, but don't know the directors name, it's probably because they didn't get the largest say on the final cut or look of the film For the longer explanation, I'll go through how a look is developed for a film works, and a bit of film history, this is also from a DOP's perspective, so Directors don't go this deep into image making, it's mostly reserved for the DOP and Colourist whilst the Directors just says whether or not they like it. When a DOP comes into making a film, there are discussions had with the main Heads Of Department of a project, the Director, the VFX Supervisor, Production Designer, in instances where famous actors are present, usually you have to talk to their management about how to light them, and the most important one, the studio heads, leads, and commissioners of the specific project you're working on. (Commissioners are also the people responsible for hiring directors for music videos, but agencies are usually responsible for hiring directors for commercials.) The look for a project comes about via a verity of factors, but the main one is reference, looking at past films and how they looked. Technical reference, which is looking at different camera systems and whether that be film, digital, Large Format, S35 ext, and seeing how they look, and pure testing. Once a general look is decided, specific testing for the film can be completed, ranging from colour tests, costume tests and other factors specific to the film. For instance, I once did testing for a large amount of phone screens to see how bright they where and if they could be picked up on camera in interior exterior, birght, dark, and a bunch of other conditions and found that only a specific type of phone (which I've forgotten at this point) works in low light conditions without flickering, and that testing was done as the director wanted to use actual phones and OS's instead of replacing the screens in post. Now once that stage is complete, all of this test footage isn't given to every department right away, but the DOP, and sometimes director, sit in with the senior colourist of the project to develop a LOOK, usually in LUT form (a file that can be imported into a camera to preview the intended colour choice of a film, typically ending in .cube, in a camera like the alexa mini lf, this is built as an ALF3 file). This is the stage where after testing different types of contrast ratios in testing and all of the different types of costume, the DOP can see the best way to colour the image to make the on set photography look it's best. - Sidenote - This is how it's done now but in the early 2010s and before, digital intermediate (by that I mean manipulating the colour of footage after it has been shot, or with a LUT) wasn't exactly common place. Most films where shot on actual Celluloid film, typically 35mm and projected in the same format. This meant that the colour and contrast choices where left down to the Print stock that was chosen for the film to be projected on, and these choices ranged from Kodaks 2383, or Fujifilms 3513 and not necessarily colour grading/timing. Contacted printed film tended to be very contrasty and saturated. Now, although this choice we have now is great for films where the filmmakers have creative control, that control is usually handed off primarily to studio heads who look at statistics and numbers instead of pure feeling on large studio projects. If you don't know who directed the film when going into it, that means the studio most likely had more influence on the film than the director did. This is why major production, when you know the directors names and they're advertised, tend to look better. For example Director Matt Reeves For "The Batman" (2022) or Denis Villeneuve with Dune (both shot by the same dp Greig Fraser funnily enough) So what happens when studio executives have control over the LOOK for the film, is that they are usually in the Colour suite with the DOP and Director) and tend to say one of the following when you do anything interesting with the colour (and I've been there for multiple commercial). "This looks great, but most audiences will say it's too dark", "This looks interesting, but I don't like how colourful it is, some audiences won't have TVs the can show the colour that well" or "Can we make it look more consistent, all of the shots look very different". and all of these notes are aimed at the most common denominator of screens, cinemas and audience members, so that no matter if a display can show an image, they want it to look exactly that same in an IMAX cinema, and on your dads 12 year old Iphone, and by that account, everything gets less contrasty, less saturated and brighter. The most common notes from studio heads are "can we make the darks brighter, there's no detail in our actors armpits" and at the end of the day, you don't need that detail to tell the story, but studio heads get final say, not you. In the case of Deadpool and Wolverine, the comparison made is a grading choice, although the lighting is different. One is very soft, whilst the over is using a slightly harsher lighting fixture that's less diffused. The actual main difference between the 2 is that the colour on the new one is less intense, and look more like an out of camera rec 709 image that's retaining all the detail in that shadows. There's also the point that a lot of modern movies are mastered with the HDR version in mind, and this means that not much time is spent on the SDR version (what we view on our computers screens) which leads to flat, less contrasty looking images, but that's a whole other can of worms, and I've spent too much time writing this already
While there are many reasons for why they'd have their films pretty desaturated, the most reasonable is an avoidance of having hyper-saturated primary-colored superhero suits on screen visually clashing against each other. I have worked in color grading before, and one of the biggest challenges has always been retaining a focus on the characters while separating them from the background AND making sure there is a clear focal point. Many people think it's laziness or a lack of care for presentation, but it's more likely a limitation based on the limits of human eyesight. When you have one main character in a suit (such as each Phase 1 film) you can get away with building the visual language around that one design, but you don't get that luxury in crossover films.
In the case of the superhero movies, it's because of the color palette In X-Men Origins Wolverine, Logan it's just a dude with a leather jacket and silver claws. Now in D&W he's in yellow spandex (and silver claws) while he's fighting a guy in a vibrant red costume. So yeah, there's that
Finally somebody talked about it, also one more problem to talk is the makeup, and costumes, they aren't what normal folks would wear, I mean superhero costumes now look like just freshly stitched, washed and made, not battle scars, also they got clean faces, like even at midnight scenes they got this clean skin, it kills relatability especially if there's no stylization in that
Personally,I like how movies looked like in the 70s, 80s, 90s and up to around early to maybe mid 2000s,they usually looked more natural. The ones from late 2000s looked like they were filmed through some blue filter,while the ones from 2010s to present often look too pale like they were filmed through a grey filter.
I think this is the first time I see literally any thing that has a pulse actually praising X-Men Origins AND Micheal Bay. Gotta love revisionist history!
I have been feeling this with games and anime. I see less contrast and deep shadows overall. This doesn't apply to everything though. I have seen some really jaw dropping cinematography in the past several years. Anime and gaming included.
Blade cameo just caused so much hype and revived so much interest in the franchise, i wonder if they will actually finally release the Mahershala Ali’s Blade
@@melo3916 I think it's more that they're rushing to meet a deadline. The finished recordings can be graded more... artfully, I suppose, but it looks like they're doing the bare minimum to ensure all the various shots have a matching look and they don't tend to go beyond that.
I actually agree I knew it wasn't just me The colors give a great aspect to a movie how you can just tell you're watching an old movie. Part of What made it so great was the colors snd it feels so I don't know. Real? Lifeless i don't know. But it's not the same, an obvious difference.
The hair can be explained a bit. The previous movies had a different wolverine from a different multiverse. The filmmakers also didn’t want to use his mask so they compensated with that hairstyle.
It's kind of weird that movies are moving away from deep blacks just as TV companies have started to have a competition for who can show the deepest black.
Movies aren't moving away from deep blacks, just most Disney movies.
Why would we want shitty black costumes, the old X-Men movies look like shit, x2 only is saved cause of the plot
@@Petahhhhh he isnt refering to that type of black, he's talking bout color grading and contrast
@@Petahhhhhno one is talking about costumes
@@Petahhhhh
I think they meant the color grading for any given shot being given enough contrast that the dark parts are practically pitch black, allowing the rest of the colors to pop out more and achieving better balance between them
If my Mexico isn’t orange, it ain’t my Mexico
Mexico isnt orange
@@GIGANTHEGOAT1youre right its piss yellow
@@Mclovinsnutt123 in real life is just has a hint of light brown
@@GIGANTHEGOAT1it’s red scotch bro
@@GIGANTHEGOAT1actually Mexico is a lush green country
The Batman might be the best-looking superhero movie I've ever watched. The lighting was flawless.
You'd be surprised how controversial that take is, apparently people say the movie is too dark? I just tell them turn up your brightness.
@@armyofuno8196 yeah I also found it weird that movies like Citizens Kane, sin city,... did this shit long before The Batman, yet they want to bash on The Batman instead. They said stuff like " can't see the faces, too dark" that's literally the point of the movie, you are not supposed to see their faces, but you can still make out shadowy figures/ forms like from noir movies and comic book ,like think about it, Reeves is saying those characters are just side characters, and we are not meant to identify them. Roger Deakins, the greatest cinematographer literally praised the hell out of the movie too. In conclusion, I blame Tik Tok.
Edit: search Spider-Man shattered dimension, Spider-Man noir section to specify, you will see what I mean.
Lighting is good, but film isn't
@@user-gl2nw4sx1m you watched with the tv turned off?
@@user-gl2nw4sx1m Anyone that calls The Batman a bad movie but admits to liking Ms. Marvel shouldn't be taken seriously. Come back when you have some taste.
We also have to consider that older films were shot on film, vs the digital dynamic range we get with cameras today
There tools called editing. If they just gonna use whatever video camera get. Then why bother have editing, if they not gonna use it to make color better. Now they just import the video from camera, put it in together and that is. Added some cgi later. No bother touching color
Isn't dynamic range is supposed to give more flexibility concerning colour grading?
Digital cameras have more dynamic range than film…
@@themexican8720 that’s my point. We see more details in both the shadows and the highlights making the image seem more flat because we can see more of the detail in both ends of the range. Vs film which naturally has more contrast with those shadows and highlights baked in. We are agreeing
@@exber799 yes. I agree, however, marvel isn’t trying to recreate the look of physical film. Instead they are just using the full dynamic range when color grading which makes it seem more flat. It has both pros and cons. What I’m saying is that film comes out of the camera 90% done and they can only really tint it. They edited way less back when shooting with film
Recently re-watched The Incredible Hulk, and I couldn't believe how good it looked in comparison to today's movies. Really need more films that look like that 🙌
honestly some of the cgi is bit rough in that movie but i get what you mean
yea suck it then cz i am not watching that abomination of a movie
@@andaelee The Suicide Squad, All of Zack Snyder DC movies have this high contrast look with deep shadows and atleast 1 color that pops out of the shot. There is really no technical reason for this soft look in recent movies.
The first Hulk movie has way better CGI and cinematography
Umm what are you smoking? Most movies these days are better than that joke of a movie lmaoo
The Batman has the best cinematography in a comic book film. Ever.
I feel like the MCU's colour grading before The Avengers was more stylistic and dynamic. Since then only James Gunn's films have actually looked great, every other film looks lifeless and grey like concrete. Exception is Dr Strange 2 and that's only because of Sam Raimi who actually cares about the film's look.
I don't get when people say that a film's colour grading and cinematography don't matter, like bro, film is a VISUAL medium.
I think the first doctor strange looked good too along with the first ant man and homecoming in most sequences, but I get what you mean
Umm what? Your opinions are lifeless and so idiotic. Many mcu movies look great and not lifeless. I guess you don't watch any. Many people care about how their visual art looks. Stop being delusional
It’s most definitely not the Batman lmao
The Batman best cinematography in a comic book film? No no no. Hate Zack Snyder's choices and story all you want, but so much of those films look like they came straight out of the comic pages, the cinematography in BVS and ZSJL was beautiful and leagues above The Batman.
@@AdamGroves-vd8jdhilarious Snyder drone
These movies are made with HDR in mind. SDR versions of movies made with HDR in mind tend to look flat. I don't judge a movie's colors by a SDR trailer.
HDR can be converted to SDR. Normal people can do this on free software. Hollywood could do the same, if not much better.
@@Rezzanine Hollywood has a track record of outsourcing trailer and basic editing to basic editors. I seen some AI upscaled "official remasters" that look awful compared to what I can do. I'm sure you could pull off a better SDR conversion than Mr Wagie Cagie
Bro every movie nowadays is made like that. Not every one of them looks this lifeless. Heck the new joker trailer just came out, and that looks gorgeoous.
Still sounds like a massive fuckup to make the trailer for your blockbuster look so muted and ugly
@adityadas5820 marvel movies are not lifeless so stop being hateful and delusional. The joker movie looks horrendous and so bleak
Modern Movies feels like they are shot with the same camera and edited with same colour grading level.
A lot of the reason superhero movies are going to a flatter look as of recent is to incorporate more comic book accurate designs to their characters. Having one character in a movie such as iron man makes it easier to colour grade a movie to the character's costume. The problem starts to show when you start adding different characters with contrasting suits to the film like in the avengers where Iron man's red clashed with captain America's blue. The simplest option to make both of the colours stand out was to make the movie flat and have a grey colour grading over the top of it. Almost every superhero movie uses this technique as it makes production much easier with the multitude of colours being shown on screen at a time. This is also why older movies with superheroes like the X-Men used black suits to match the colour grading of the movie much nicer. To summarize, movies are making the colour grading match the character over the characters matching the colour grading.
finally someone pointing it out how it is, this actually makes the most sense
That’s another reason why I’m not a huge fan of “comic accurate” costumes. If I can recognize the character, and the costume is believable, then I don’t really care about accuracy, but everyone is praising some really cheap and ugly looking designs for the sake of “comic accuracy”
@@TheReeelBradPitt they aren't really cheap, Black leather is cheap, all same design and same color, comic accurate costumes are way better and beautiful to look at
@@theamazingspooderman2697 I’m not talking about 2000’s x men, I’m talking about captain America’s suits in his first two movies, iron man’s early suits, Deadpool’s grimey suit in his first 2 movies, Wonder Woman’s costume, etc. Those suits were nice to look at, we’re still very recognizable, and had some level of believability. what I mean by cheap looking costumes that aren’t believable in the slightest is flash’s new suit, daredevil’s yellow mustard suit, Spider-Man’s golden emblem in Nwh, falcon’s captain America suit, etc
In the international trailer it has the finished color grading and it looks soooo much better color wise
Agatha & Captain America 4 also look good visually
Also i recommend watching Bumblebee it’s the best LA TF Film
I love Bumblebee but I don’t think the color grading will ever be better than the Arrival to Earth in the first film. Also, nice to see you hear Doomblazer!
DOOOOOOOM
hello doomblazer
Wait which international trailer?
But anyway you're mostly right. Agatha looks cool but Captain America 4 still has the same grey, uninspired in any daylight scenes. The inside scenes look alright though.
Bro I think transformers.ers one will be the best transformers movie and if it's a trilogy I just want metroplex to appear and prime to get damaged and get the matrix
I don't think it's just specific to now but every time period had a bad visual trend. Everything in the 2000's had a really annoying piss filter that we shouldn't want to emulate. Even though I had a similar thought recently about Michael Bay's transformers, the movies at some points were the weird mix of green blue and yellow that just looked like chromatic aberration or a siezure.
It also needs to be scene specific, the battle scene in the trailer is meant to show a snow white landscape and all the soldiers are wearing white. I think that pops more than the blue Bourne Identity filter applied to it, and it looks better executed than a similar scene at the start of Age of Ultron. Then one of the screenshots was just of Deadpool talking and the newly filtered shot made his mask unnecessarily dark.
And yeah, it is more complicated than adding a filter or turning up contrast settings. If the lighting and visual direction is lacking or there is a certain intent not being matched nothing post-filming will fix it.
I know the screenshot you're referring to. It was already clear to me from the start that this is not the original look of the film but rather a downgrade. Someone claimed, this is an SDR version of the HDR film, essentially a downscaled trailer. The edited screenshot 2:58 made it abundantly clear it was altered with a filter.
Late 90s-early 2000s green Matrix filter is super annoying
Thank you for this lmao
a few years ago i was talking to my brother about how movies today look so cheap and boring while movies from the 2000's still look much better than today's, i honestly think disney buying everything and pumping 30 movies and series and whatever per year is destroying this industry, remember the CGI artists complaining about how everything was being rushed they were working too much and not being paid properly, meanwhile back in the day they took their time to make ONE movie
'05 downspiraled
0:32 the color grading isnt a problem. There’s no problem in color grading here. Does it have to be very vibrant or saturated to be considered good color grading?
It's kinda like with video games in the late 2000s and early 2010s. Every game either had a yellow piss filter or a grey filter. Compared to then, colours are much more dynamic in games now.
Imma be honest the first time I watched the trailer, I didn't look at the color grading lmao. Feeling like twitter as usual is looking for something to complain as usual
I mean we're practically rearing our heads from the shitshow of the current state of comicbook and big franchise films/shows, so color grading would be the least of our worries. But peeps in the industry or into vfx, these would be second nature to them.
The fact that normies don't care about it doesn't mean it's just a nitpick. If so, we wouldn't have fantastic movies such as Dune Part 2
The Batman 2022, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of madness and the spider-verse movies are probably the only comic book movies as of recently that look Vishnuly stunning
Guardians 3 too
only Batman
@gutzz1519 Maybe but it still has the Marvel grey in some spots, and the CGI is a little rough other than the CGI for the animals
@@gutzz1519Nah Guardians 3 also unfortunately has this incredibly drab and grey Cor palette
Bro tried to sneak in Doctor Strange 2 😂😂
Finally something that talks about what I've been kind of feeling after 2010's, stripping away the deeper and darker colour grading and making everything appear like it has light right in face of it (and it looking awful af where it could have been way way better) great to see your video noticing it and not being directed towards the movie only (because it's not like it started such thing anyway)
During
the companies who have been trying to make things dark and edgy realise that the people want whimsy but haven't realised the people also want dynamic lighting. All the lighting is either pitch black you can only see your face reflected in the screen or dull and lacking shadows 😭
I wondered why Deadpool looked so weird seeing trailer but then I remembered the first two deadpool movies have a darker tint which I preferred.
Idk why, but I feel like the actual movie looks better than the edits
7:16 the worst part is that it was a WIG dude. like why are you gonna put a wig on this man to make him look BALDER smh
As worse dceu was it atleast had great cinematography & creator vison in it.
100%
and Matt Reeves' The Batman just wipes every single marvel film off the charts with its gorgeous cinematography
@@VasudevAnandcva True
But like dceu did have shit visuals birds of pray aqua man ect
@@VasudevAnandcva
I see your THE BATMAN
and raise u CAP&WS the movie
@@VasudevAnandcvabiggest Batman fanboy in the comment section 😭
What is Joe Biden’s plan to return us back to colour grading?
If you like color grading you aren't black
fall asleep
The shots compared doesn't make sense. The Origins movie was indoors and had more dynamic lighting. The new one was from an outdoor scene. Also it seems like every shot that people think is "better" always just intense saturation and unrealistic lighting. The edits just look like a Zack Synder movie, which he had plenty of in the 2000s. Everyone had the templated blue and orange color grading preset. Why is the whites blue in the edit. They're literally in a desert. Yea it looks nice, but it doesn't make sense
welcome to marvel hate train, it's very common nowadays, get used to it, I did
Who cares if it makes sense? It's BORING.
@@SlyTF1 ayt make the desert underwater then
@@EthanRom It's not even a desert. It's a fictional wasteland. They could have made it look anyway they wanted. They chose to make it look as bland as possible.
Imagine not turning your TV's contrast up 😂
You can't turn up the contrast on a movie in theatres bro
@@ibrahimalee23coward
I watched the entire video and I couldn't agree more with Ryan Gosling
Option C:
The whole color grading is focused around making Deadpool and blood pop more so ..🤷🏻♂️
I am still gonna watch this movie Wolverine and Deadpool are the best comic book bromance
yessir keen to see the movie
World's Finest and SpideyPool beg to differ.
Nah that title goes to batman and superman. Their bromance is great.
In my honest opinion, I believe the filmmakers color grade a little more flat so that people could adjust the colors and contrast to their liking on their own personal 4K/8K TVs because I personally enjoy customizing the colors and all that on my TV, which is a 72 inch 4K televisioneven the avengers avengers was absolutely stunning with my ability to adjust those settings. I know that’s not everyone’s preference but definitely get into like customizing the settings on your television pretty cool.
Sam raimi did wery great with color grading
I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice the hair lol
your vids keep getting hornier 😭😭 please make sure you dont get age restricted 🤞
wait i thought i was actually kinda tame this video 🚪🏃♂️
@@andaelee the opposite
@@andaeleenever watched you until today I loved the vid but nah that last outro wasn’t tame at all😂😂
That’s simply the look of Deadpool movies since the first one. They go for “realistic” grey lighting to make it a bit grittier and less flashy.
Having said that, you’re not wrong that maybe too many movies use a similar look. I think specifically for Marvel it’s the Joss Whedon effect who made that look popular with the first Avengers. Flat contrast with a saturated colors reminiscent of sitcom.
It would fit with the dialogue.
It’s all factors: lighting, camera choice, lenses and grading. X-Men Origins Wolverine was shot on film, which more or less has a baked in look straight out of camera and graded in an era before HDR screens. Deadpool and Wolverine is shot on Alexa LF in raw digital and probably graded for a HDR finish. HDR is much flatter than SDR (Rec709) and raw digital video from an Alexa camera has extensive flexibility to set a “look” chosen by the DP, director and colourist. In a HDR workflow most filmmakers can get carried away with preserving black detail and highlight rather than committing to a high contrast look, such as Kodak negative film stock. Older is better in my opinion, but digital can look awesome if you forget technical requirements and just go for pure aggressive creativity
about the hair, it was done on purpose. true to the comic
you're absolutely 💯 right about all of them. had these same thoughts since Avengers 1
People who saw DP3 early said the color grading looks much better on film
I think it's just the current aesthetics of commercial movies and it will change in a couple of years
I got a Wolverine ad before this video with the same clip in the thumbnail 😭
i think the first deadpool looks amazing. something about that realistic lighting and colour palette looks really good
So let me get this straight we are comparing a shot inside of a building to a shot outside. Come on guys
You should watch jurrasic world. Its mostly outside, and the color is far better than this
@@exber799 it really depends on the environment, this is like a white void that they’re in, compare the origins wolverine shot to the shot of Logan in the bar from DP3, you’ll see what I’m talking about. Besides, I’ve already seen the first 30 and it looks even better than the trailers
Man, all my life I thought that The Avengers looks like a tv show and finally I now why.
"MCU Color Grading" 😂
Thing is if it’s in a cold environment, shouldn’t the color grading look like that in DP&W? Cuz the first is sweaty and hot but the next is cold. Idk maybe they either are trying to be realistic even tho it’s duller or it’s just another part of VFX teams getting like no time way too often, especially for big block busters. As for the hair he also has to wear a cowl so I kinda get it.
Also did we just forget about spiderverse, John wick, bad boys, furiosa, dune, ect. Cuz they got color. Why do people seem to have forgotten we still got recent movies with vibrant colors
Dude yeah exactly, it's hilarious because dune part 2 and furiosa are the two best looking movies of the year so far (honorable mention to challengers) and they literally take place in a desert lol, I don't doubt many aspects of this movie were extremely rushed, wasn't it supposed to come out at the end of the year originally or something? But it really doesn't justify how damn ugly it looks
People take criticism of things they like as personal insults it’s exhausting, the average movie these days looks like it was filmed by the same cameras as the office. I hate it
Then maybe go outside. Outside looks better than a rainbow looking video
It's funny that you mention that you think the Transformers movies had "good" color grading when it was oversaturated piss.
Every single actor looked like they had Donald Trump's orange man tan, and the colors were way too poppy.
But you do you.
i shall
Hey bud, how bout this. Keep crying😂
Started to see the video and thought you had a loooot of subs 😅. Keep going mate, great video and personality
thanks brah
Yeah it’s cause of the way he edits. Any RUclipsr now can edit like this and it’s mad annoying and not funny. Back then this type of editing was still pretty uncommon and not over saturated like it is today
I’ve heard from people who saw the first 30 minutes of the movie saying it looks better on screen. Hope they’re right
A great recent marvel's color grading example is Loki, which honestly had great visual art and contrast and great grading. Proving they can infact do it if they wanted to. They for some reason just don't. unfortunate..
I want a color grading is base on environment temp and emotion. it help to improve the scene to the highest level.
The edit just looked kinda green, us that really a good thing?
Bro just watch bumblebee and rise of the beats their not even connected to bayverse it’s completely it’s own thing I’m starting to hate it when people compare those
The Suicide Squad actually had amazing color that upgraded the costumes
Omg as a fellow Australian this is hilarious and so well done! Your delivery is great
Marvel's always had this issue with their cinematography/colour grading. Apart from Guardians of the Galaxy and maybe a couple of others they all have that flat, slightly colourless look to them.
It's not that it's inherently bad colour grading. I think the issue is in a lot of these instances the look of the film isn't matching the story/tone.
Fun fact: he has different hair styles in the movie when deadpool tries finding different wolverines
2:23 hey don’t crap on Alex Ross’s work like that bro
One thing to note. Lighting is one of the 3 most important part of a scene and proper lighting (not necessarily good lighting a lot of things can be improved with poor lighting. What is proper depends on the scene). Lighting can hide things you shouldn't see. Highlight things you should notice. And change the mood of something overall. So it is almost as important as placement of scenery and roughly tied with the audio side (dialogue and music).
I like the more natural looking colors for a comedy, high contrast with lots of shadows fits better for a serious tone. Marvel movies are generally very lighthearted so it makes sense that they go for sitcom-esque lighting.
love the Ryan Gosling cut out is loveable
Hello from India 🇮🇳, In my opinion one reasone why they have contrast film to zero is now a day movie release in theater in 3D format. and it is realy hard to watch dark scenes in 3D glass.
This has been a problem that i dont see going away anytime soon, endgame was just a bore to watch at some points because the whole movie was just so dull and lifeless
You’re RIGHT. Omg, no wonder the movie felt bland. (The villain was not impactful but ok)
ngl I've always loved the way this film was color graded, the suits really pop.
YES THE FUCKING HAIR!! LIKE, WHY NO ONE MENTION IT????
They make Logan looks like he's balding. Or they want to give him Naruto dad haircut? If they don't want to wait for the hair grow longer, can't they just use wig?
It could be caused the modern digital cameras having no natural film grain
I love that your thumbnail points to the color grading in x-men origins: wolverine as "dynamic". Like, okay! I can now see how unimportant color grading is!
😂
That wasnt the case once they left the void i think it was a choice to represent the void as a wasteland
I read it's because flat lighting allows marvel to be really flexible and change effects and direction very late. If you have harsh shadows on half of someone's face, you can't later as easily change how you want the shot to look
ITS TO MATCH SERIOUS BLOOD GORE AURA WHILE KEEPING THAT COMIC FELLING
The same thing happens with video games, for a while all the games coming out were basically run through a filter to color grade them all the same. Many games were just brown and dingy without any color, then games were kinda blue for a bit
It’s shot on film vs digital as well. Film has a more real natural look to it, and using it requires pre-production planning that leads to more interesting shots as well. Not to mention that most high budget movies like DP are mostly shot in green screen.
Wicked is another example. It looks so grey and bland it's horrible
Normal people arent upset about color grading 😂😂😂
Watching this and reading some of the comments makes me actually want to die at points lol. I work in film, not at the scale of marvel films what so ever, but as a cinematographer on medium to low budget films, commercials and music videos. Let me explain how a look like this comes about:
For the quick, TLDR; half of filmmaking once budgets go over a certain range, and I mean anything above £20k a day, is politics, and filmmakers for major productions don't get as much choice unless they're established, so what happens is you if know the property you're (deadpool, batman, thor ext.) watching, but don't know the directors name, it's probably because they didn't get the largest say on the final cut or look of the film
For the longer explanation, I'll go through how a look is developed for a film works, and a bit of film history, this is also from a DOP's perspective, so Directors don't go this deep into image making, it's mostly reserved for the DOP and Colourist whilst the Directors just says whether or not they like it.
When a DOP comes into making a film, there are discussions had with the main Heads Of Department of a project, the Director, the VFX Supervisor, Production Designer, in instances where famous actors are present, usually you have to talk to their management about how to light them, and the most important one, the studio heads, leads, and commissioners of the specific project you're working on. (Commissioners are also the people responsible for hiring directors for music videos, but agencies are usually responsible for hiring directors for commercials.)
The look for a project comes about via a verity of factors, but the main one is reference, looking at past films and how they looked. Technical reference, which is looking at different camera systems and whether that be film, digital, Large Format, S35 ext, and seeing how they look, and pure testing. Once a general look is decided, specific testing for the film can be completed, ranging from colour tests, costume tests and other factors specific to the film. For instance, I once did testing for a large amount of phone screens to see how bright they where and if they could be picked up on camera in interior exterior, birght, dark, and a bunch of other conditions and found that only a specific type of phone (which I've forgotten at this point) works in low light conditions without flickering, and that testing was done as the director wanted to use actual phones and OS's instead of replacing the screens in post.
Now once that stage is complete, all of this test footage isn't given to every department right away, but the DOP, and sometimes director, sit in with the senior colourist of the project to develop a LOOK, usually in LUT form (a file that can be imported into a camera to preview the intended colour choice of a film, typically ending in .cube, in a camera like the alexa mini lf, this is built as an ALF3 file). This is the stage where after testing different types of contrast ratios in testing and all of the different types of costume, the DOP can see the best way to colour the image to make the on set photography look it's best.
- Sidenote - This is how it's done now but in the early 2010s and before, digital intermediate (by that I mean manipulating the colour of footage after it has been shot, or with a LUT) wasn't exactly common place. Most films where shot on actual Celluloid film, typically 35mm and projected in the same format. This meant that the colour and contrast choices where left down to the Print stock that was chosen for the film to be projected on, and these choices ranged from Kodaks 2383, or Fujifilms 3513 and not necessarily colour grading/timing. Contacted printed film tended to be very contrasty and saturated.
Now, although this choice we have now is great for films where the filmmakers have creative control, that control is usually handed off primarily to studio heads who look at statistics and numbers instead of pure feeling on large studio projects. If you don't know who directed the film when going into it, that means the studio most likely had more influence on the film than the director did. This is why major production, when you know the directors names and they're advertised, tend to look better. For example Director Matt Reeves For "The Batman" (2022) or Denis Villeneuve with Dune (both shot by the same dp Greig Fraser funnily enough)
So what happens when studio executives have control over the LOOK for the film, is that they are usually in the Colour suite with the DOP and Director) and tend to say one of the following when you do anything interesting with the colour (and I've been there for multiple commercial). "This looks great, but most audiences will say it's too dark", "This looks interesting, but I don't like how colourful it is, some audiences won't have TVs the can show the colour that well" or "Can we make it look more consistent, all of the shots look very different". and all of these notes are aimed at the most common denominator of screens, cinemas and audience members, so that no matter if a display can show an image, they want it to look exactly that same in an IMAX cinema, and on your dads 12 year old Iphone, and by that account, everything gets less contrasty, less saturated and brighter. The most common notes from studio heads are "can we make the darks brighter, there's no detail in our actors armpits" and at the end of the day, you don't need that detail to tell the story, but studio heads get final say, not you.
In the case of Deadpool and Wolverine, the comparison made is a grading choice, although the lighting is different. One is very soft, whilst the over is using a slightly harsher lighting fixture that's less diffused. The actual main difference between the 2 is that the colour on the new one is less intense, and look more like an out of camera rec 709 image that's retaining all the detail in that shadows.
There's also the point that a lot of modern movies are mastered with the HDR version in mind, and this means that not much time is spent on the SDR version (what we view on our computers screens) which leads to flat, less contrasty looking images, but that's a whole other can of worms, and I've spent too much time writing this already
While there are many reasons for why they'd have their films pretty desaturated, the most reasonable is an avoidance of having hyper-saturated primary-colored superhero suits on screen visually clashing against each other. I have worked in color grading before, and one of the biggest challenges has always been retaining a focus on the characters while separating them from the background AND making sure there is a clear focal point. Many people think it's laziness or a lack of care for presentation, but it's more likely a limitation based on the limits of human eyesight. When you have one main character in a suit (such as each Phase 1 film) you can get away with building the visual language around that one design, but you don't get that luxury in crossover films.
In the case of the superhero movies, it's because of the color palette
In X-Men Origins Wolverine, Logan it's just a dude with a leather jacket and silver claws. Now in D&W he's in yellow spandex (and silver claws) while he's fighting a guy in a vibrant red costume.
So yeah, there's that
I got an ad at the beginning of this video for Deadpool and Wolverine where the first frames were the exact clip from the thumbnail.
"You are so dark. Are you sure you're not from the DC Universe?"
-Deedpool 2
Finally somebody talked about it, also one more problem to talk is the makeup, and costumes, they aren't what normal folks would wear, I mean superhero costumes now look like just freshly stitched, washed and made, not battle scars, also they got clean faces, like even at midnight scenes they got this clean skin, it kills relatability especially if there's no stylization in that
someone should correct the colours and release it
3:51 Trypophobia trigger warning ⚠️
Personally,I like how movies looked like in the 70s, 80s, 90s and up to around early to maybe mid 2000s,they usually looked more natural. The ones from late 2000s looked like they were filmed through some blue filter,while the ones from 2010s to present often look too pale like they were filmed through a grey filter.
I think most of the old movies was shot outdoor instead of studio artificial light. Hence it looks more contrasty and vibrant.
I think this is the first time I see literally any thing that has a pulse actually praising X-Men Origins AND Micheal Bay. Gotta love revisionist history!
Oh god his hair 😭😭😭
Movies nowaday have bland color grading but then when it comes to night scene they make it too dark.
Bro, I just clicked on your thumbnail to tell you I immediately agree
I have been feeling this with games and anime. I see less contrast and deep shadows overall. This doesn't apply to everything though. I have seen some really jaw dropping cinematography in the past several years. Anime and gaming included.
It’s because if you shoot on greenscreen, it has to be evenly lit.
All I know is Deadpool and Wolverine looks visually amazing in theatre.
Blade cameo just caused so much hype and revived so much interest in the franchise, i wonder if they will actually finally release the Mahershala Ali’s Blade
Why did you rag on a guy for correcting someone on how they spelt "color" just for you to use the same spelling in your title? 😂
Guardian of the galaxy trilogy the only Marvel movies that have beautiful visual
I respect your honesty and transparency sir 👏🏽
Yeah the Marvel (and general Disney) grading has been ass since they resorted to usi G The Void or green screen. Everything looks like a TV show set
@@melo3916 I think it's more that they're rushing to meet a deadline. The finished recordings can be graded more... artfully, I suppose, but it looks like they're doing the bare minimum to ensure all the various shots have a matching look and they don't tend to go beyond that.
I realized Ryan Gosling was in the back after 3 minutes of watching, I swear
I actually agree
I knew it wasn't just me
The colors give a great aspect to a movie how you can just tell you're watching an old movie. Part of What made it so great was the colors snd it feels so I don't know. Real? Lifeless i don't know. But it's not the same, an obvious difference.
The hair can be explained a bit. The previous movies had a different wolverine from a different multiverse. The filmmakers also didn’t want to use his mask so they compensated with that hairstyle.
Always good to see you upload man keep p the good work! 🔥