Having lived in this region all my life, i appreciate the story and your excellent narration. As a side note, Jedediah Smith State Park on the Oregon/California border is absolutely beautiful.
Thanks for all your work on your vids, I've eagerly watched each one since I found your channel. It's refreshing to hear stories from both perspectives both European and Native. Greetings from Kilkenny, R.O.I 🇮🇪
Guys I take my hat off for you this one was a delicacy! Good braiding Jed Smith actions with a great story including the fact that I never knew this deeds. Congrats fellas, no one on RUclips has ever did this to me I confess. Stuff to studies for me, thank you people ,you're doin a very good job and I assume there was not much left of this tribe..Thx a lot for the input from Northern Germany Ludwig.
Love your videos and learning so much about history. I hope to see you continue and cover as many topics as possible! These people's stories are so important to keep alive
dale morgan wrote a good biography of jedediah smith including excerpts of his journals and letters. this account is close to morgans, the major inclusion being smith had instructed rogers not to allow the kalawatsep,the local tribe of umpqua, into camp, and rogers chose to allow @ 100 natives into camp to continue trading. i would question anyone sleeping late (smiths party already up, breakfasted and far enough downriver so as not to hear the battle) while in hostile territory, particularly after 2 incidents
right: hunter-gatherers predate opportunistically (it’s not wrong). The commenters projecting & taking up any side are wrong (humans, that era in the wild)
Like the Yuroks the Umpqua were probably a people who took the opportunity to get revenge against anyone who seemingly did them wrong. Nice shot across the Kalmiopsis Wilderness.
Kinda confusing though, I mean one chief steals an axe denies it for hours and causes a huge incident over it. Then the next chief comes and just straight up jumps on the best horse he can find. What did they even think would happen? I actually dont get it...
When I was a young kid we drove out to OR to visit relatives. We were at the Umpqua River and my aunt found an obsidian arrowhead by the river and gave it to me. I lost it decades ago but sure wish I had it. It was cool.
Thanx for showing us, once and for all time, how the lack of communication can be the cause of misunderstanding, leading to violence and death, no matter the color of your skin...
@@historyattheokcorral It was my wife and I would take a Saturday start at 7 o'clock in the morning and we would drive all day long all over Oregon. We would frequently stop and just enjoy the lovely views. It is a lovely state. I followed the" from I 5 out to the coast then backup highway 1 to 1 to highway 26 and then Into Portland the Oregon coast is magnificent.
As a native of primarily Quechua South American heritage, the fact that this gentleman said. "The native tribes from Alaska to Argentina" made me see the world is becoming educated. Native americans don't disappear after the border. There is a lot more america left, lol 😂
Native Americans came from Asian countries, Mongols, Hans, etc. Maybe the cities in South America were more native. But after 200 years I think I am native.
@@garymccann2960 you have ancestors that far back? I think if you have had ancestors here for over 10,000 years you can claim nativeness pretty legitimately.
@@garymccann2960 everything you said is incorrect. Asians didn’t travel the water before Africans but y’all hate that argument. Also… If you have to think you’re native,you probably aren’t.
Good job. You missed the part where an Umpqua warrior with a case of buyer's remorse shot arrows into Jed Smith's herd, wounding several horses. As far as things go, I've always suspected, as with the attack on the Colorado River, that this attack was a case of opportunistic thievery with wounded pride used as justification.
Ykno we cut that from the script and weren't sure if we should have...guess we should have kept it! You are absolutely correct, that happened as well. Its a fascinating case to examine from all perspectives.
The Umpqua had every right to take everything from them. Who gave them permission to go through there territory or take their furs? The Umpqua are still in the area and they have started to take back parts of the river -COMANCHE NATION
@@thechiefwildhorse4651 No. They weren't trapping. Also, most indians thought it beneath their dignity to hunt beaver. Smith traveled from Salt Lake City to San Bernardino to Corvallis, mostly trading to the benefit of both sides. Of all the icons of the Old West, Smith treated the natives most fairly and did not deserve this.
@@Crash103179 You have no clue as to the hunting or trapping habits of my culture Perhaps ask questions instead of thinking you are going to educate an Indigenous Person about themselves. The white savior complex is how you think of a European person trespassing on Indigenous Lands. The Numunu finished Smith -COMANCHE NATION
@@thechiefwildhorse4651Then let me do the white guy thing by referencing what was written in the 1820s -- Jed Smith's journal, no less. Smith noted that he wanted to trade for beaver pelts, but found it difficult to get native hunters to wade all day in ice cold water to hunt what they considered a river rat.
Their culture was as doomed as their Victims European ancestors was in face of people more technically advanced, one could argue the local natives could rightfully claim a tax on such interlopers but obviously greed and pride on both sides made this impossible. One should be critical of those who killed the boy for it would be dubious at best to claim he was or ever would be threat to them.
Love your channel. First time ive heard you talk of Pac NW tribes. I would love to hear a story with the Native tribes around sourhern BC Canada like the Haida Gwai, Musqueam Squamish and Tsleil Waututh .
I'd love to hear more about Smith and the Comanche you refer to at the end the video. And 💛 I'd also like you to do a segment on the Seminole history. Thank you 💛 so much for your excellent work!
I figure listening to this story that Jedadia needed guidance and help from some of the native warriors but he didn't realize they would lead him and his men in a ambush until it was to late in the journey. But I definitely feel bad for them all as it was so barbaric to be still sleeping inn early in the morning, some eating breakfast, then before you know it your being attacked and killed.Thanks for sharing the story of such great history .Regards Peter DeLorey Canada
Um, so English and grammar weren't your strong suit in school, huh? I agree with your statement, but come on man, anything loses credit when you're fucking up your language, even with the power of auto correct.
They were trespassers in a country that was never theirs. They deserve what they got. The world would be a much better place if the Europeans had never invaded the Americas.
@@Demun1649 No one deserves to be tourtcherd and mutilated no matter what they did , not even you Mr.Dave, wake up in what your hearing ,but I bet you dollars to donuts the native scouts got paid for helping Jedidia and his companions ,then the native scouts got greedy and wanted everything they had in this story and set them up to be ambushed .That's what more or less took place I'd say.
@@elliottd296 So why stop Putin? It's no different. Going through the territory without permission. Disrespecting the Authorities at hand. The Umpqua had every right to Take everything. Ahmad Aubary is dying proof of not to enter a white neighborhood in 2023. The United States will be Indigenous Lands again..best be respectful -COMANCHE NATION
My 4x grandmother and grandfather lived in St Louis during these times, they're buried outside St Louis, it was the staging post for the mountain men, trappers and settlers going west. I'd have loved to have heard their stories, I believe it was a pretty wild town. Of course their children also went west, more stories lost to time, it's good a few of the stories from these times are recorded, worts and all.
As an suggestion, I think that stills from Hollywood movies distract from the credibility of the video. I feel that pictures from the various museums from the area would give a more accurate description.
Often when 2 very different groups of people meet they're suspicious of each other and with good reason. In all races they're such things as politeness and courtesy. I think that a few of Indians viewed the white men as weak in body and numbers and took the knife and hatchet the chief riding the horse may well have been in fun but after the theft they were on edge. As a series of events happened it all escalated. Today we have the benefit of hindsight. As you know this is a tragedy but there are lots of examples when the Indians received the deaths. Such was life then and even now. Thank you for work and entertaining us with all your captivating and interesting videos.
When the quuiich (Lower Umpqua) first met white people in the late 18th century they were eager to trade. That soon changed with the spread of devastating diseases and suspicion of the motives of encroaching white men. By 1828 they already had formed a relationship with the Hudson Bay Co, and they knew Smith was not part of the HBC. They had also heard stories of bad behavior of Smith's men of the Coos Bay people. It is also said Rogers attacked a Native woman. All these things together probably led to the attack.
It's not that they had no sense of ownership it's that they didn't believe in a single person owning a parcel of land. People owned their individual goods but land belonged to all the people to use how they needed.
@Ian If they understood the concept of ownership, and they understood the concept of trade, then they knew what they were doing when they sold the land. There are no two ways about it. You cant understand what it means to trade a horse and not what it means to trade land.
They understood ownership just fine cause the tribes warred with one another over territory, hunting, relationships and other things all the time. That’s a myth made up on the land thing
@@Ian-yk4pk It's not quite that simple. It wasn't a parallel to the Pastǝn (in quuiich) system of one individual making marks on paper and stakes on ground and declaring it solely theirs, but groups of people DID recognize own land. Sites, such as villages, cemeteries, root grounds, berry sites, fishing sites were claimed by specific villages. An outsider would need permission from the local chief to hunt, fish, gather or trap in those places. And there was a long history of people's traveling far to trade. Lots of south coast people would go to maɬuush (Columbia River) to trade, as well as out to setɬ'uume (Camas Valley) and many other places to trade.
I was born and raised in the Umpqua region, my family has been there since the late 1800's on my father's side and my aunt on my mother's side married a Umpqua Indian, but a Upper Umpqua, they speak a different although related language and culturally were very different with the Lower Umpqua be a typical NW coast tribe while the Upper Umpqua were culturally close to the inland Plateau people of Eastern Oregon.
Had they been more diplomatic they could have perhaps avoided it all. When outnumbered in someone else’s country it is prudent to tread lightly. An example of being right and still being wrong in the end.
actually: Per the VIDEO herein -- if WE take the time, de-cypher (decipher) the details, it "ain't hard to tell" -- the same, characterizes the essence of almost 95% of all FUEDS in western "fronts" per say, even -- going back to the "Hatfields and the McCoys" --- "be warned."
In response to your question, I think the United States was founded by relentlessly strong, determined, and focused people. The European immigrants that came were tough, the first colonists and settlers crossing west were tough, the Black Americans and their African ancestors were tough, and the Native Americans fought with everything they had to hold on to what was theirs. All for liberty, all for land, all to become the great dream. What an incredible culture and country they, all together created. A family has its problems but here you all stand. Hello from Colombia South America
People in the tribe shared everything. You pass through a tribes country trespassing and one takes an axe as the Native would see as just for the trespassing. It was an axe not their guns or their food. I can pull many many accounts of savagery, barbarism, and primitive in Europe, the Old World, and by the Catholic Church, before any white men came to these shores. And at a time when Europe was quote "Civilized."
Yea the audacity, let us trap for the fur you use in daily life so that others can use for fashion and dont mind us at all... No need to pick sides just enjoy the history, it was a free for all back then. Natives were screwed way worse thwn most of these stories combined.
Theres a ridiculous report that says these dudes drove a herd of cattle up from S.F. to Ft. Vancover. But its way to early.. Through knarly mountains that people had to walk through, got lost in, and did not travel with herds for another 50yrs.
@@historyattheokcorral No worries! The Siuslaw tribe pronounced it closer to Shi-U-shlaw. Still notable for it's fall salmon run. You came closer than most that have heard it pronounced. Thanks for the history!
Humans have always struggled for survival, by any means. There is no judgment of either side unless you were present at the time and place when it occurred.
Thank you so very much for your time and effort 🎙️🌍. I was born here. I was taught to respect my elders and be quiet. Well I'm an adult now 🐱💋 AMEN Philadelphia USA 🇺🇲☦️ SPANISH MEN HAVE EGOS !!! I'm UKRAINIAN, SPANISH, AND FRENCH. RN CCRN THAT'S ALL. Kensington and Allegheny Ave 💉💉💉 XYLAZINE IS MIXED IN EVERY STREET DRUG. NARCAN...DOES NOT REVERSE THIS.
"the Mountain men didn't want to conquer, only pass through." - but the Indians didn't permanent settlements or settle, they travelled and hunted - exactly the same as the Mountain Men. So as far as the native populations where concerned, and how they'd always lived, the land & wildlife was being stolen by the trappers.
Not always in the instance of the trappers. Many, many of the trappers married into tribes, had children and/or were adopted themselves. Settlers were viewed more as land grabbers later on, trappers would be seen as trespassers.
@@historyattheokcorral obviously "not always" but the 'many many' trappers who married where still in a small minority and if you stay and live with a tribe, then your not "passing through," 10:05 In the eyes of many Natives, not wanting to fight doesn't mean you are not invading & stealing. Like how many see modern immigration today. I don't know, but it's interesting... :)
The Native Tribes struggled in a harsh land to live... You hear that? Tell that to the tribes of Washington who used to have potlatchs for weeks. Where there was sooo much food. The tribes say that they used to have food wars guys. Cmon.
I,think that the umqua natives were very wrong in their murderous sneak attack on a party of hard working men taking all they had labored for in addition to to taking their lives.and I suspect their Karma was deeply affected by this ugly action
Objectively, if you’re in someone else’s home/land/country, you must show respect. That is something the European invaders lacked, eg. Manifest destiny.
Madison and others were concerned about another Nation being carved out west of the Rockies. At Ft. Vancouver, we see perhaps more double and triple agents than anywhere in our young history. John Mclouphlin would entertain secret talks about Nation building as well. Cascadia being one of these more publicly evidenced today. His sons muder shows the shady dealings. We need more people uncovering alot of the truth for our Oregon Country. Its hard to do here today. Our Western European styles of doing things is still dominant here with the Columbus discovery showing up still in our classrooms and things. Manifest Destiny was coined a long time before our Western American marketing campaign of the 18th Century. It has more roots in Global Colonialism than anything. A little known fact for you.
So these Umpqua found it offensive they were caught stealing steel, and caught attempting to take a horse? But just through the camp right? He was just gonna ride it through the camp? Lol. Ridiculous.
The first of my family arrived in 1619 at Jamestown aboard the ship HMS Tiger. By 1829 part of the Sewell family under John Newton Sowell had migrated to Gonzales Texas to receive land grants & become citizens of Mexico. Marcus Sewell fell at the Alamo in 1836. From there several Sewells rode with the Texas Ranging Companies and engaged marauding bands of Comanches. Ideals are peaceful. History is violent. Might makes right and to the victor goes the spoils. These two maxims are as true among Europeans as among the countless North American tribes. The warfare and violence between ALL players on the North American continent was unavoidable because of human nature. A nature shared by both the Europeans and the tribes. Human nature is universal. There are no innocent parties. All took offense as it suited them as a pretext for aggression. The Comanche were a waring tribe by nature and culture. They learned it as did other tribes like the Apache as a byproduct of centuries upon centuries of survival of the fittest. Might makes right and to the Victor goes the spoils. We still live by that reality of human nature to this day, believe it or not. But that is another story for another time LOL 😂
They had the movie on u-tube,,,Taming the Wild West Jedadiah Smith . What a great movie,,,,i have been trying to buy it for a couple years now,,,,,it got taken down from u-tube awhile back. The only place i could find it was 75.00 For it,,,thats insane. Jedadiah was one bad to the bone Man,,,,,,,,until he met the Comanche. And i admire Both of them,,,,,,,,Jedadiah for his Bravery and adventure,,,,,,,the Comanche's for fighting for their land, and families and killing invaders
Hmmm... You mention the psychological scares of the invaders... What of the psychological scares of the defenders, who's land, families and entire way of life were being systematically destroyed...
Hope you're that worried about the psychological scares of the defenders when tribes took over other tribe's land. It's not like they all just lived peacefully...
Do you know that tribal warfare was savage, brutal and constant. Tribes were systematically destroying other tribes ways of life long before any of the recent arrivals showed up. And they didn't feel one damn bit ashamed about it.
Mhm tend to agree but instead of proper discussion you inevitably get the dimwits shouting “bUt TrIbE oN tRiBe WaRfaRe” like it’s some foolproof justification or ah ha moment, cringe.
@@cjthebeesknees Again, tribes were at constant brutal savage war with each other, constantly, from the beginning. And they prided themselves as being brutal and savage. This can't be ignored. It's actually very pertinent, and factual.
Having lived in this region all my life, i appreciate the story and your excellent narration. As a side note, Jedediah Smith State Park on the Oregon/California border is absolutely beautiful.
Being fearless works for you until it doesn't. RIP JSmith.
Fantastic video keeping the memory of the mountain men alive . Such adventurous spirits of the men who discovered the west deserve to be immortalised.
The men who “discovered” the west were Austro-Asian settlers from 10,000 years ago.
Thanks for all your work on your vids, I've eagerly watched each one since I found your channel. It's refreshing to hear stories from both perspectives both European and Native. Greetings from Kilkenny, R.O.I 🇮🇪
Guys I take my hat off for you this one was a delicacy! Good braiding Jed Smith actions with a great story including the fact that I never knew this deeds. Congrats fellas, no one on RUclips has ever did this to me I confess. Stuff to studies for me, thank you people ,you're doin a very good job and I assume there was not much left of this tribe..Thx a lot for the input from Northern Germany Ludwig.
Love your videos and learning so much about history. I hope to see you continue and cover as many topics as possible! These people's stories are so important to keep alive
dale morgan wrote a good biography of jedediah smith including excerpts of his journals and letters. this account is close to morgans, the major inclusion being smith had instructed rogers not to allow the kalawatsep,the local tribe of umpqua, into camp, and rogers chose to allow @ 100 natives into camp to continue trading. i would question anyone sleeping late (smiths party already up, breakfasted and far enough downriver so as not to hear the battle) while in hostile territory, particularly after 2 incidents
right: hunter-gatherers predate opportunistically (it’s not wrong). The commenters projecting & taking up any side are wrong (humans, that era in the wild)
If they were killed purely for intrusion there would not have been any trade beforehand, unless that was a ruse to buy time whilst gathering a force.
Like the Yuroks the Umpqua were probably a people who took the opportunity to get revenge against anyone who seemingly did them wrong. Nice shot across the Kalmiopsis Wilderness.
Kalmiopsis? That is well South of the Umpqua area, that massacre was somewhere between Elkton and Scottsburg I think?
@@deanfirnatine7814 the picture shows the Kalmiopsis looking north across the Wilderness
Kinda confusing though, I mean one chief steals an axe denies it for hours and causes a huge incident over it. Then the next chief comes and just straight up jumps on the best horse he can find. What did they even think would happen? I actually dont get it...
When I was a young kid we drove out to OR to visit relatives. We were at the Umpqua River and my aunt found an obsidian arrowhead by the river and gave it to me. I lost it decades ago but sure wish I had it. It was cool.
Cool I grew up there
Thanx for showing us, once and for all time, how the lack of communication can be the cause of misunderstanding, leading to violence and death, no matter the color of your skin...
Nothing to do with misunderstanding.
The umpqua just wanted free stuff so they made up an excuse to kill all those men.
I greatly enjoy this channel. I don’t know if it’s your voice and delivery, your descriptive language, or just an exciting story.
All of the above.
Where are the new videos good sir!!! I love the content
Interesting story. I lived in around Portland. 1973 and Portland was a different city. OR is very beautiful state.
I bet that was cool.
@@historyattheokcorral It was my wife and I would take a Saturday start at 7 o'clock in the morning and we would drive all day long all over Oregon. We would frequently stop and just enjoy the lovely views. It is a lovely state. I followed the" from I 5 out to the coast then backup highway 1 to 1 to highway 26 and then Into Portland the Oregon coast is magnificent.
There is always more to the story, but we won't ever have it.
Thanks. You have become required viewing !
strange they didn’t keep watch, have a defense plan in the midst of hunter gatherers. Amazing pioneer stories-thank you.
As a native of primarily Quechua South American heritage, the fact that this gentleman said. "The native tribes from Alaska to Argentina" made me see the world is becoming educated. Native americans don't disappear after the border. There is a lot more america left, lol 😂
Absolutely!
Native Americans came from Asian countries, Mongols, Hans, etc. Maybe the cities in South America were more native. But after 200 years I think I am native.
@@garymccann2960 you have ancestors that far back?
I think if you have had ancestors here for over 10,000 years you can claim nativeness pretty legitimately.
@@garymccann2960
So Europe has only been around for 200 years?
You can't be Indigenous
Only Indigenous People are Indigenous.
-COMANCHE NATION
@@garymccann2960 everything you said is incorrect. Asians didn’t travel the water before Africans but y’all hate that argument. Also… If you have to think you’re native,you probably aren’t.
Good job. You missed the part where an Umpqua warrior with a case of buyer's remorse shot arrows into Jed Smith's herd, wounding several horses.
As far as things go, I've always suspected, as with the attack on the Colorado River, that this attack was a case of opportunistic thievery with wounded pride used as justification.
Ykno we cut that from the script and weren't sure if we should have...guess we should have kept it! You are absolutely correct, that happened as well. Its a fascinating case to examine from all perspectives.
The Umpqua had every right to take everything from them.
Who gave them permission to go through there territory or take their furs?
The Umpqua are still in the area and they have started to take back parts of the river
-COMANCHE NATION
@@thechiefwildhorse4651 No. They weren't trapping. Also, most indians thought it beneath their dignity to hunt beaver. Smith traveled from Salt Lake City to San Bernardino to Corvallis, mostly trading to the benefit of both sides. Of all the icons of the Old West, Smith treated the natives most fairly and did not deserve this.
@@Crash103179
You have no clue as to the hunting or trapping habits of my culture
Perhaps ask questions instead of thinking you are going to educate an Indigenous Person about themselves.
The white savior complex is how you think of a European person trespassing on Indigenous Lands.
The Numunu finished Smith
-COMANCHE NATION
@@thechiefwildhorse4651Then let me do the white guy thing by referencing what was written in the 1820s -- Jed Smith's journal, no less. Smith noted that he wanted to trade for beaver pelts, but found it difficult to get native hunters to wade all day in ice cold water to hunt what they considered a river rat.
Great work! Highly enjoy the channel!
Excellent presentations, descriptions and knowledge; well done on all aspects. Thank you.
Love this channel! Keep up the awesome work
Thank you!!
Their culture was as doomed as their Victims European ancestors was in face of people more technically advanced, one could argue the local natives could rightfully claim a tax on such interlopers but obviously greed and pride on both sides made this impossible. One should be critical of those who killed the boy for it would be dubious at best to claim he was or ever would be threat to them.
Double thumbs up👍👍 I love these videos.
-- these type of videos have reduced my "need for weed" by like 1/3 and also really, enlightened my sense of relaity, at large.
New favorite RUclips channel keep it up
Thank you very much!!
Excellent job! Keep up the good work 👍
Thank you!
Details matter, great work.
Thank you! Cheers!
Yet another absolutely brilliant video! 👏👏👏 Keep your great work 👍
Thanks again!
@@historyattheokcorral you're very welcome indeed.
Fascinating content. As I was listening I paused at 9:19. Looking at the bottom left side in the shallow water. Do you see the face?
I see it now, too.
Wow! Good catch! Yes, it is quite eerie
Love your channel. First time ive heard you talk of Pac NW tribes. I would love to hear a story with the Native tribes around sourhern BC Canada like the Haida Gwai, Musqueam Squamish and Tsleil Waututh .
These men lived more in one year than I have in sixty plus. Different mindset in these men or really hard times at home
Thanks for the upload. Great video but little overboard on the eloquently descriptive words.
Jed Smith called the Smith river Defeat River.
Great channel! I love the stories and the style presented.
Glad you like them!
I'd love to hear more about Smith and the Comanche you refer to at the end the video. And 💛 I'd also like you to do a segment on the Seminole history. Thank you 💛 so much for your excellent work!
I figure listening to this story that Jedadia needed guidance and help from some of the native warriors but he didn't realize they would lead him and his men in a ambush until it was to late in the journey. But I definitely feel bad for them all as it was so barbaric to be still sleeping inn early in the morning, some eating breakfast, then before you know it your being attacked and killed.Thanks for sharing the story of such great history .Regards Peter DeLorey Canada
Do you feel the same for the Russians when they are killed by Ukrainians ?
Um, so English and grammar weren't your strong suit in school, huh?
I agree with your statement, but come on man, anything loses credit when you're fucking up your language, even with the power of auto correct.
They were trespassers in a country that was never theirs. They deserve what they got. The world would be a much better place if the Europeans had never invaded the Americas.
@@Demun1649 No one deserves to be tourtcherd and mutilated no matter what they did , not even you Mr.Dave, wake up in what your hearing ,but I bet you dollars to donuts the native scouts got paid for helping Jedidia and his companions ,then the native scouts got greedy and wanted everything they had in this story and set them up to be ambushed .That's what more or less took place I'd say.
@@elliottd296
So why stop Putin?
It's no different.
Going through the territory without permission.
Disrespecting the Authorities at hand.
The Umpqua had every right to Take everything.
Ahmad Aubary is dying proof of not to enter a white neighborhood in 2023.
The United States will be Indigenous Lands again..best be respectful
-COMANCHE NATION
My 4x grandmother and grandfather lived in St Louis during these times, they're buried outside St Louis, it was the staging post for the mountain men, trappers and settlers going west. I'd have loved to have heard their stories, I believe it was a pretty wild town. Of course their children also went west, more stories lost to time, it's good a few of the stories from these times are recorded, worts and all.
Brilliant Telling of a Harrowing Tale!!!!
Three,six now seven, its well worth the wait.
I drive a van in 48 states.. Good stuff I subbed.
This entire series should be required listening for the young citizens of the United States so they don't fall prey to Leftist revisionist history.
Love your videos
As an suggestion, I think that stills from Hollywood movies distract from the credibility of the video. I feel that pictures from the various museums from the area would give a more accurate description.
I think they were killed because they wanted their stuff...
I enjoy your vids and the background music. Keep it up!
Thank you!
Yes, and the art work and snippets from movies, nice work.
The Cow Creek Band of the Umpqua now own a large casino and RV area between Grants Pass and Roseberg Or. They have done very well for their people.
Often when 2 very different groups of people meet they're suspicious of each other and with good reason. In all races they're such things as politeness and courtesy. I think that a few of Indians viewed the white men as weak in body and numbers and took the knife and hatchet the chief riding the horse may well have been in fun but after the theft they were on edge. As a series of events happened it all escalated. Today we have the benefit of hindsight. As you know this is a tragedy but there are lots of examples when the Indians received the deaths. Such was life then and even now. Thank you for work and entertaining us with all your captivating and interesting videos.
When the quuiich (Lower Umpqua) first met white people in the late 18th century they were eager to trade. That soon changed with the spread of devastating diseases and suspicion of the motives of encroaching white men. By 1828 they already had formed a relationship with the Hudson Bay Co, and they knew Smith was not part of the HBC. They had also heard stories of bad behavior of Smith's men of the Coos Bay people. It is also said Rogers attacked a Native woman. All these things together probably led to the attack.
Yeah! I seen this was coming soon and been just waiting on it 🤙😁🤠
Fantastic video :)
Thank you very much!
If a culture has "no sense of ownership," how then do they understand the concept of a trade?
It's not that they had no sense of ownership it's that they didn't believe in a single person owning a parcel of land. People owned their individual goods but land belonged to all the people to use how they needed.
@Ian
If they understood the concept of ownership, and they understood the concept of trade, then they knew what they were doing when they sold the land. There are no two ways about it.
You cant understand what it means to trade a horse and not what it means to trade land.
They understood ownership just fine cause the tribes warred with one another over territory, hunting, relationships and other things all the time. That’s a myth made up on the land thing
@@Ian-yk4pk It's not quite that simple. It wasn't a parallel to the Pastǝn (in quuiich) system of one individual making marks on paper and stakes on ground and declaring it solely theirs, but groups of people DID recognize own land. Sites, such as villages, cemeteries, root grounds, berry sites, fishing sites were claimed by specific villages. An outsider would need permission from the local chief to hunt, fish, gather or trap in those places. And there was a long history of people's traveling far to trade. Lots of south coast people would go to maɬuush (Columbia River) to trade, as well as out to setɬ'uume (Camas Valley) and many other places to trade.
@@p.phillips291 that's exactly what I said
Sir, you are a wordsmith par excellence..are you a professor? teach in any ways, besides YT?
Thank you so much! No, not a teacher of any kind. Just a humble RUclipsr!
My only wish for your videos is for them to be longer.
Hey! Some of your stories seem to be missing. What happened to tale of the Sioux boy trying to woo his bride? Was that not your's?
Hmmm thats not us but sounds like a good story!
Thank you nice analysis 😊
Glad you liked it!
I was born and raised in the Umpqua region, my family has been there since the late 1800's on my father's side and my aunt on my mother's side married a Umpqua Indian, but a Upper Umpqua, they speak a different although related language and culturally were very different with the Lower Umpqua be a typical NW coast tribe while the Upper Umpqua were culturally close to the inland Plateau people of Eastern Oregon.
Had they been more diplomatic they could have perhaps avoided it all. When outnumbered in someone else’s country it is prudent to tread lightly. An example of being right and still being wrong in the end.
Definitely a gripping tale
actually: Per the VIDEO herein -- if WE take the time, de-cypher (decipher) the details, it "ain't hard to tell" -- the same, characterizes the essence of almost 95% of all FUEDS in western "fronts" per say, even -- going back to the "Hatfields and the McCoys" --- "be warned."
Hi from England
Another great video!
In response to your question, I think the United States was founded by relentlessly strong, determined, and focused people. The European immigrants that came were tough, the first colonists and settlers crossing west were tough, the Black Americans and their African ancestors were tough, and the Native Americans fought with everything they had to hold on to what was theirs. All for liberty, all for land, all to become the great dream. What an incredible culture and country they, all together created. A family has its problems but here you all stand. Hello from Colombia South America
Stealing from starving travelers and then killing them because you got caught, sounds pretty savage and primitive.
Oh, they were more or less equal in that regard.
@@ethanhoward8506No, they certainly were not equal in that regard.
@@VaxtorT yes they were. There is no shortage of examples for me to pull from.
People in the tribe shared everything. You pass through a tribes country trespassing and one takes an axe as the Native would see as just for the trespassing. It was an axe not their guns or their food. I can pull many many accounts of savagery, barbarism, and primitive in Europe, the Old World, and by the Catholic Church, before any white men came to these shores. And at a time when Europe was quote "Civilized."
Yea the audacity, let us trap for the fur you use in daily life so that others can use for fashion and dont mind us at all...
No need to pick sides just enjoy the history, it was a free for all back then. Natives were screwed way worse thwn most of these stories combined.
any info on Charles M Russell?
amazing stories. thanks
Theres a ridiculous report that says these dudes drove a herd of cattle up from S.F. to Ft. Vancover. But its way to early.. Through knarly mountains that people had to walk through, got lost in, and did not travel with herds for another 50yrs.
ENJOYED
You have anything on the Fort Parker kidnapping in Texas?
Coming soon! 👀
Ive read a report where three men came in and one where five... This is a tough study for sure.
The topic is interesting but the volume sucks ...impossible to hear even when set to loudest setting
What a live he lived
10:48 No wonder the native Americans were hostile to the Europeans.
The Indians traded with the white men and not by constraint. Pride caused this massacre.
Very well pronounced although we say Sigh-U-slaw as locals. Graduated from Siuslaw HS.
Shoot! Sorry! We really do try to hit all the pronunciations correctly. It won't happen again. 👍🏻
@@historyattheokcorral No worries! The Siuslaw tribe pronounced it closer to Shi-U-shlaw. Still notable for it's fall salmon run. You came closer than most that have heard it pronounced. Thanks for the history!
Thank you!
Humans have always struggled for survival, by any means. There is no judgment of either side unless you were present at the time and place when it occurred.
Thank you so very much for your time and effort 🎙️🌍. I was born here. I was taught to respect my elders and be quiet. Well I'm an adult now 🐱💋 AMEN Philadelphia USA 🇺🇲☦️
SPANISH MEN HAVE EGOS !!! I'm UKRAINIAN, SPANISH, AND FRENCH. RN CCRN THAT'S ALL. Kensington and Allegheny Ave 💉💉💉 XYLAZINE IS MIXED IN EVERY STREET DRUG. NARCAN...DOES NOT REVERSE THIS.
Well I just hope both sides had fun doing it
I'm sure the tension leading up to this massacre was a Fk Aroun N Find Out ending that hasn't changed in any past or present clashes
It's amazing how the Europeans have been cast exclusively as the baddies. Doubt.
"the Mountain men didn't want to conquer, only pass through." - but the Indians didn't permanent settlements or settle, they travelled and hunted - exactly the same as the Mountain Men. So as far as the native populations where concerned, and how they'd always lived, the land & wildlife was being stolen by the trappers.
Not always in the instance of the trappers. Many, many of the trappers married into tribes, had children and/or were adopted themselves. Settlers were viewed more as land grabbers later on, trappers would be seen as trespassers.
@@historyattheokcorral obviously "not always" but the 'many many' trappers who married where still in a small minority and if you stay and live with a tribe, then your not "passing through," 10:05 In the eyes of many Natives, not wanting to fight doesn't mean you are not invading & stealing. Like how many see modern immigration today. I don't know, but it's interesting... :)
Thunder Over The Ochoco 1-5 by Gale Ontko. His life long research is a must for well, everybody... Hang on to your bootstraps...
Hey live in roseburg love to hear about the history
Too many chiefs, too many chiefs.. Too many chiefs, toooo many chiefs
and not enough squawks.
The Native Tribes struggled in a harsh land to live... You hear that? Tell that to the tribes of Washington who used to have potlatchs for weeks. Where there was sooo much food. The tribes say that they used to have food wars guys. Cmon.
I,think that the umqua natives were very wrong in their murderous sneak attack on a party of hard working men taking all they had labored for in addition to to taking their lives.and I suspect their Karma was deeply affected by this ugly action
Here we go
Objectively, if you’re in someone else’s home/land/country, you must show respect. That is something the European invaders lacked, eg. Manifest destiny.
Madison and others were concerned about another Nation being carved out west of the Rockies. At Ft. Vancouver, we see perhaps more double and triple agents than anywhere in our young history. John Mclouphlin would entertain secret talks about Nation building as well. Cascadia being one of these more publicly evidenced today. His sons muder shows the shady dealings. We need more people uncovering alot of the truth for our Oregon Country. Its hard to do here today. Our Western European styles of doing things is still dominant here with the Columbus discovery showing up still in our classrooms and things. Manifest Destiny was coined a long time before our Western American marketing campaign of the 18th Century. It has more roots in Global Colonialism than anything. A little known fact for you.
A story so we'll told.
So these Umpqua found it offensive they were caught stealing steel, and caught attempting to take a horse? But just through the camp right? He was just gonna ride it through the camp? Lol. Ridiculous.
All lay load on the willing horse
❤
The first of my family arrived in 1619 at Jamestown aboard the ship HMS Tiger. By 1829 part of the Sewell family under John Newton Sowell had migrated to Gonzales Texas to receive land grants & become citizens of Mexico. Marcus Sewell fell at the Alamo in 1836. From there several Sewells rode with the Texas Ranging Companies and engaged marauding bands of Comanches. Ideals are peaceful. History is violent. Might makes right and to the victor goes the spoils. These two maxims are as true among Europeans as among the countless North American tribes. The warfare and violence between ALL players on the North American continent was unavoidable because of human nature. A nature shared by both the Europeans and the tribes. Human nature is universal. There are no innocent parties. All took offense as it suited them as a pretext for aggression. The Comanche were a waring tribe by nature and culture. They learned it as did other tribes like the Apache as a byproduct of centuries upon centuries of survival of the fittest. Might makes right and to the Victor goes the spoils. We still live by that reality of human nature to this day, believe it or not. But that is another story for another time LOL 😂
I feel sorry for the horses, the men, not so much
Indian duplicity.
They had the movie on u-tube,,,Taming the Wild West Jedadiah Smith . What a great movie,,,,i have been trying to buy it for a couple years now,,,,,it got taken down from u-tube awhile back. The only place i could find it was 75.00 For it,,,thats insane. Jedadiah was one bad to the bone Man,,,,,,,,until he met the Comanche. And i admire Both of them,,,,,,,,Jedadiah for his Bravery and adventure,,,,,,,the Comanche's for fighting for their land, and families and killing invaders
U don't enter a man's castle and be insulting and bold
umpqua extremely the guilty perps here
Hoke Seaaaaaaaaaa
Hoke Seaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Hmmm...
You mention the psychological scares of the invaders...
What of the psychological scares of the defenders, who's land, families and entire way of life were being systematically destroyed...
Hope you're that worried about the psychological scares of the defenders when tribes took over other tribe's land. It's not like they all just lived peacefully...
Do you know that tribal warfare was savage, brutal and constant. Tribes were systematically destroying other tribes ways of life long before any of the recent arrivals showed up. And they didn't feel one damn bit ashamed about it.
Mhm tend to agree but instead of proper discussion you inevitably get the dimwits shouting
“bUt TrIbE oN tRiBe WaRfaRe” like it’s some foolproof justification or ah ha moment, cringe.
@@cjthebeesknees Again, tribes were at constant brutal savage war with each other, constantly, from the beginning. And they prided themselves as being brutal and savage. This can't be ignored. It's actually very pertinent, and factual.
@@BornIn1500 Indeed, they lived as peacefully as the Europeans did...and do today. Russia vs Ukraine for instance.
Maybe if they hadn't been using the Oompaloompas for slaves in the chocolate factory, the wild Oompaloompas wouldn't have massacred those fellas.