OMG ! Iv'e been a long term sufferer of QRM... watched your videos on making the loop and sniffer, So straight into the shack and knocked them up, I printed out a local map and went on the hunt.... It took me about four days to track it down to a single house about a mile from my shack, which is on a hill, and about the same height as my attennas. Knocked on the door and explained what I was doing, with my radio and sniffer and said that they might be the house that was causing radio interference..... the loop was overwhelmed by the noise and I attached the sniffer and found it was a power unit for lights and air to an aqurium. They asked me about how they can cure it and I said I would find a "quiet" unit... Off I went to Dobbies with radio and loops, asked if they could "sniff" the fish tanks, none of their units made a noise, so I bought one (£18.00) and went back to the "offenders" home and gave it to them, they promptly replaced it and cut the wires off of the old one.Best £18.00 spent on my hobby and thanks to you, I can enjoy my radios, de G1YYU
A great outcome on tracking down the source. We can all do this if we try. I prepared the original DF Loop article for QRM.GURU in VK. It's great to see so many operators around the world taking steps to reduce the noise floor. Well done! Cheers, Ian Jackson, VK3BUF, from RASA, the Radio Amateur Society of Australia.
Well done on the elimination and good on you rectifying the problem. With operators like yourself the hobby continues to leap forward. Truly inspiring. 73.
Fun video. Little bit of history: in the Netherlands '40-'45 the occupying forces of the nazi's used similar techniques and mobile loop antenna's to locate transmitters that were used by the resistance to communicate coded messages back and forth with the government in exile in London. Sadly many transmitters and resistance people were captured. But as time passed the resistance got smarter as well and started to use mobile transmitters in order to make it harder for the nazi's to find them.
Fantastic work and great news! I’m so pleased you were able to solve the problem and it’s reassuring to hear the homeowner was more than happy to work with you!
Wow, stumbled in here while looking at QRM eliminator video and all I can say is bravo for tracking down that piece of junk. Kudos to you neighbors for being helpful and supportive.
Excellent, I am so glad you had cooperative neighbors. Since the Christmas lights went up in the neighborhood 40 meters is unusable in the evening. I will have to build this sniffer and do some searching if it doesn't disappear in a few days.
Thanks Brian! Yes, the loop is the place to start. The sniffer is good to poke at things if everything is still turned on. A loop indoors may pick up upstairs as well as in front and behind you, so sniffer a good plan b of you get confusing signals. Good luck 👍🏻
I have the same problem at my QTH. As soon as the Christmas lights come on 40m is almost unusable at S9++. People have mostly took theirs down now and it’s much better. Funny how all these products meet UL or CSA standards but still emit so much QRM. Thanks for the video from VA3XAP
Amazing! Thank you for this. I too have a nasty broadband QRM source in my neighborhood. I will be building the loop you made to identify the source. My noise has peaks every 120hz starting from around 6mhz - 12mhz and only starts at night. Cheers!
Thanks Richie! Yes that’s a shame and something I was dreading. All worked out ok though, so you don’t know ‘til you knock. Ironically, I’d dropped a long, light-hearted, explanatory note around my neighbours some weeks back explaining what’s what and that I may be door-knocking asking for power-down help. This house was outside my immediate area, so never got that far! I’ll send another note out explaining the outcome 😀
That is so impressive. I have only just started Ham Radio ( intermediate test in 2 weeks ) but I soon found there was a powerful QRM near home. Mine was so easy to find, it was my homemade power supply for my electronics hobby. There is only one other source affecting me and I have learned to live with it - it's the bell system of a school near home. I think they need a broadcasting licence !
One of my most hated and most loved things is hunting down and finding RF generators in and around my home. Such highs and lows in dealing with RFI. Good video, I like the sniffer idea!
Yes Stewart. Frightening to think how far it reaches. I think it was working through the mains cabling as well as the sniffer was detecting it in the consumer unit in garage and on the extension lead plug where it was connected to the socket on the wall 😮
That was jolly good spirited of your neighbour to go along with your hunt, it could have been very different. It makes for a good series of videos that have a conclusion.
Appreciate you taking the time to give us a step by step run down of build and elimination Ian, been a subscriber ever since. 73, keep up the good work and nice to see Radcom giving you a page.
Thanks Mat! I still get emails from people who’ve read the article or gone back to it and used the loop to suss their QRM, which is great. Thanks again 😀
Excellent job Ian. That sniffer idea is genius! I hate the cheap "Float" chargers, since they cycle on and off as needed for charging. It makes them harder to find as QRM. The cheaper they are, the worse they offend. I've got 3 of the "Battery Tender" brand in my garage along with my HF gear, and they cause no issue.
Thanks! Yes, this is definitely a dodgy brand and labelling and doesn’t meet the regs. Unfortunately there’s lots on the online sites, so can only get worse for us all 👎🏻
I had a pulse charger for a cordless drill. It caused interference for a 1.5-mile range. The problem is, I didn't have that problem before. So I unplugged it and ran it off a battery/ inverter -- no problems, no signals. Only while operating with the mains/electrical receptacle.
Absolutely fantastic (as Gary Barlow would say),,,,what a great ending and it showed some real community spirit on the part of the 'offenders'. I do hope that sniffing out QRM doesn't take up all your time and now become your new hobby,,,or, perhaps it could become your new profession, now there's a thing !
Great outcome 👍 I found my bad source of interference was only on 40m and after powering down was still the ssme UNTIL I took my Samsung mobile phone off my workstation desk (wasn't even on charge) and problem sorted :)
I had a battery charger get me too. It was on my boat right next to the antenna. It made a heck of a racket. I put it on a timer so it's on when I'm asleep. But I should get a better one.
Great video. I love the sniffer antenna you made. I have also found a drill charger to be the cause of interference for a customer once before. The same customer also had a gcfi outlet, computer processor, and many LED lights that were causing ingress into his TV antenna. All the accumulated noise caused issues with his VHF band. When neighbors are helpful, it's great to be able to identify the issues, but in cases where we have no access to the noise source, then system changes can sometimes help. Besides identifying the noise sources, I have also found that the inside wiring has to remain completely closed and tight from the balun all the way to the connected devices. All unused ports must be terminated. If there are any RF leaks and ingress in the coax system, it starts to act like an antenna. A slightly loose connection can cause issues and so can a poorly compressed connector Faulty, cheap and in-house leaky equipment can also cause leakage and ingress. Of course, I am speaking mostly of 75 ohm TV systems, but the 50 ohm systems also share the same problems. If we think of the entire coax system as plumbing, it easily becomes clear how and where the weak points are. If a coax accidentally gets poked by a drill when securing the wire, the jab can then allow RF leakage and absorb ingress too. With TVs, the baluns are wound to tie into the outer shielding. It's how 75 ohm systems work. This also closes off the antenna at the balun transformer, making it easier to start our leak free plumbing/coax from the antenna down.
Good find!. Luckily you have very good neighbours. Sadly my neighbours aren't always as approachable as that. Last year I had one come banging on my door aggressively accusing me of causing TV interference when I wasn't even using the radio. I went round and took a look at it for him and it turned out he hadn't tightened the bolts attaching the pole his tv antenna was mounted on to the wall bracket and it was blowing around in the wind. A week later my burglar alarm went off while I was out and instead of just politely letting me know he tried to smash the bell box off the front of the house then came banging on my windows at 6am the next morning effing and blinding at me.
That is great. The sniffer idea looks like it could be something that a lot of folks could use, even in their own homes. Magic result too. and you now have another battery charger :-)
I suppose one thing to note out of this is, be it a 500 or 5000 pound radio, interference is no 1 enemy...and will only get worse in time, as everything is electronic these days. Glad you got it sorted Ian.
Excellent work. I had terrible local RFI,it was a wire laid around a neighbors garden pumping out 24/7 HF rfi to control a robot lawnmower . Luckily neighbors cooperated and a filter solved the problem. Cheers Dave. Ei3ixb
Experienced the same sort of thing on an SDR receiver here, same Foxsur brand charger in a shed. I ended up "financially encouraging" the guy to use a Ring RSC804, not heard a peep out of that one.
Great work. Such devices are another type of Chinese pandemic. A diplomatic approach is the best (possibly only) way to get a satisfactory resolution to RFI. PS: It would have been good to mention at the end what that resolution is. I see that you've mentioned it in the comments, but the final ep of a cliffhanger needs to be wrapped up -- or do you intend for there to be a Part 4? PPS: This from QRZ forum Oct 2019: "The name brand of the POS charger is FOXSUR and it clearly says it is a 4AH I'm kicking myself for not figuring it out sooner since the noise was a pulse type noise. The range of that interference surprised me. Like WR2E I need to put a charger on my ATV during cold WX (it was 7 degrees last night)." and "If you open it I bet you’ll find an area on the circuit board near the AC power cord for RFI filter components that aren’t stuffed [populated] (or maybe no provision at all). I would also bet that it has a fake CE mark, maybe a fake UL mark too, or none."
Thanks for the comment James. I’ll tweak the description to explain I’ve swapped it out for free. No cliffhanger I’m afraid and I’ll be glad to see the back of it 😀 Excellent QRZ extract 😀
Ian - this report really comes alive on Video. The printed one was good to read, but this is even easier to follow, Unfortunately, living on an ex-council estate near Liverpool means far too many sources around! All the best. Kev, M0TNX
Back again!... just today, 6m here has become wiped out with S9+20dB of noise. 6m has been great until this morning and now the band is completely unusable. The noise sounds very similar to your experience with the charger. Someone online pointed me to the RadCom edition of your DF loop. Looks like I will have to put one together and go DF hunting with my FT817. Looking in my log we worked on 2m SSB 5th April this year. Not bad 'DX' from here! 73 - G0MOH, IO70.
Thanks! Yes, imagine other dodgy chargers being bought by others and the distance could have been much further going on the signal strength on the main antenna. Scary 😮
Great result, Ian. I've been reading your replies to comments and I can see you put a good amount of preliminary work into the job as well. Full marks. I'm certain Steve M1ACB will know of someone interested in the offending item! Cheers, Mick
Yes, the Chinese chargers are a problem. Tracked some 40kHz noise to a neighbors house, with hood up on car and tiny charger at work. Similar situation in marina, with switchmode chargers on every vessel. Some good, some very bad...
Brilliant Ian. Very happy you got to the button of that noise source. Very helpful video. I may build a similar set-up in the near future too. 73 de Kevin, VK4KK
There is an approach you can use Paul. Invoke their own self-interest. Tell them that the interference is also slowing down their own Wifi speed and range. Also interference is often a sign of a power supply or charger overheating fault that could start a fire in their home. Cheers, Ian VK3BUF
Very well done Ian, am I right in thinking that you use the loops null to get a line? I had a very loud QRN and used an FT817 with it's rubber duck and did it by looking at the null direction. I think a loop like yours would be much better and quicker though. I eventually traced my QRN to an Estate Agent about 300 yards away and of course walking up to the door (at 2AM) found the signal was swamping the little 817's front end. Went in the next day and like your neighbour they were very cooperative. It was traced to a decorative LED light of Chinese manufacture, They very kindly left it switched off. They recently sold the property to a Kitchen shop and I had a chat with the new owner who said dont worry I am stripping it out as It's Chinese rubbish. Thankfully new shop fit is RF quiet so it was job done. 73 Mike G3ZCC
Excellent Mike! Yes, the loop face-on is a deep null. Easy to walk about twisting it on it’s axis between face and edge-on to get a bearing and another line 😀
Nice solution Ian. I suffer virtually the same issue here and some more even using a magnetic loop.. it's almost impossible for me to locate the source as it could be from any apartment or house near me. frustration is an understatement. 73s
When the interference seems to be coming from all directions, start working your way up the spectrum as you use the loop. When you find the highest frequency that the noise occurs, it will be easier to DF. Take a look at a video I uploaded on the topic: ruclips.net/video/nx3DbdoySJg/видео.html
Great to see that you had a cooperative owner of the noise source. Anything in particular that you said to them that persuaded that cooperativeness? Imagine knowing where it's coming from and not being able to eliminated it.
Hi. Ironically I’d already done a leaflet drop to my near neighbours, explaining the hobby, the beauty of a quiet background and the frustration of man-made noise etc etc. Everyone was keen to help and offered power-off tests etc. This house was further away, but I used the same approach on the doorstep. A key aspect may have been my offer to replace the offending item having already explained it was likely to be something small….all went well 👍🏻ps. Everyone (including people in the street) were really interested in what I was doing and quite shocked at me demonstrating the noise 😀
Would you mind sharing what make and model charger you bought for your neighbour as i have had exactly the same problem for the last 12 months, it was a window cleaner charging multiple car batteries for his van electric pumps. Without this video i would never have found the problem, so a BIG THANK you for the DF loop idea.
Thank you for sharing and I hate to say it but many products from this area do not meet emissions. Why its cheaper to not use anything to stop the noise.
@@ianxfs I was indeed Ian but rearranged myself somewhat and watched them all HiHi, once again, thank you for taking the time to produce such a useful set of short videos. Very helpful. Hopefully I can find the source of my interference as its really spoiling the hobby for me. I can't see Ofcom being able to take it up for the foreseeable and I've been plagued with this noise for over a year now. Its so frustrating but a sign of the times as we all fear. Cutting into some RG213 as I write!
I recently bought an RTLSDR and have a similar issue across many bands. I do live in Port Talbot within half a mile of the Steelworks so that prob doesn’t help as they have an arcFurnace among other things.
Interesting. That charger is very similar to one I had that gave the same issues purchased from Amazon here in the US. There appears to be multiple branding on this Chinese design. Upon investigation internally the common mode suppression choke had been linked out (removed) and the filter capacitors not installed. Putting suitable components in cured the issue. The unit was labelled FCC part 15 which would have only been achievable with the suppression components fitted!! Either it was not tested or if tested the components not installed during production to save a few pennies (as the board was clearly marked for them). When it comes to coincidences I am a British ex Pat amateur and you guessed it my name is IAN. One trick I learned professionally when tracking interference was to work out where the QRM was NOT coming from!! by doing this when measuring on the reciprocal bearing any interference apparently coming from the low QRM direction was generally caused by local reflections. Of course this was automated with a receiver and computer making hundreds of measurements while driving around an area. The resulting heat map indicated exactly where the QRM/source was. The technique is still in use today by multiple government agencies to track....
@@ianatkins5460 Thanks for commenting Ian. Yes, the RSGB covered this charger in one of the Radcom issues and found the same in terms of missing parts. A few years on and I tracked down another and had it replaced ☹️
Splendid Ian, thanks. The big source of angst among many hams is approaching house owners and dealing with it with diplomacy. Your vid shows good methodology to solving it without fall-outs. Did the chap with the charger agree to buy a new one (perhaps with ‘proper’ CE compliance rather than ‘China Engineering compliance’) or did you go halves or maybe agree if he could just use it overnight when you were dreaming of DX? A couple of years back I did a Churches & Chapels on the Air event (special call etc). Bands were unusable and noise was traced to old-ish heating system (when turned off ALL noise disappeared). It also pointed to the need for possible electrical checkover/maintenance required and they found an issue with a motor on a pump, relatively cheap and easy changed to give some future proofing and possible fire prevention. A win-win! All the best- Nick
Hi Nick! I’ve ordered him a new one for free. It could have been a tv I suppose, so I got off lightly 😀 I was willing to swap-out whatever was the offending item for the sake of clear bands 👍🏻 Ironically, I’d tee’d up all my neighbours about amateur radio/QRM and helping me find and sort it. They were all keen to power-off for me, but I said I’d do a bit of rf hunting first. Sod’s Law this wasn’t an immediate neighbour, but happy to help none the less 👍🏻
@@ianxfs great! The difficulty might be getting a ‘noise-free’ charger (or at least sourcing it with a 14 day ‘no quibble’ returns). I bought a 36Ah LiFePO4 battery approx 6 months ago (amazing weight saving for backpack portable vs lead acid and ace for holding up on V) BUT the charger ain’t half noisy so I charge when not in the shack. I just hope it doesn’t cause probs to my ham mate up the road...... have a good week.
Hi Ian, I’ve been following this with a great deal of interest. I’m so pleased that you managed to track and resolve the QRM issue. Also some excellent little antenna projects to help others lactate noise of their own. Great work. M7BCN
Hi Ian, Nice series of videos to track down the noise source. Kind of the neighbors to help out. If you have the charger, how about trying some toroid RFI filters to see if the noise can be eliminated? 73 WJ3U
Hi Dave. I don’t have a 3.5mm drill bit, but I point out in the video that the piece of black wire I found which is on the work table is 3.5mm. After using it, I’m not sure whether the half mm to either 3 or 4 mm would make much of a difference? You might have a screwdriver handle or nail etc that might be 3.5? Good luck!
It was not that much the charger itself radiating, but the wires from it were the antenna. A few clamp on ferrites and it should be better. But I'm suspecting some of the internal components of the charger are just about to die, with a big smoke, normally it is hardly ever necessary to add any extra filter components around a SMPS for anything higher than above 2MHz, beside a reasonable design of the SMPS physical construction (and that is a must even to reach any good efficiency and reliability, so save quite a lot of cost on heatsink, by the way, so dtrong motivation even for cheepeese to do it right), it does not need any extra expensive components (just one cheap Y2 capacitor as an emi-only related component is enough). That makes me think it is just faulty unit (some sparking cold joint or a bad capacitor) and not a bad design by itself...
Hi Anna. Thanks for the reply. This charger also appeared in an RSGB article here in the UK. They have no suppression built in apparently. I’m swapping this one out 👍🏻
Hi Bill. I didn’t bother. I sent it off to the RSGB for analysis. It appeared in Apr 21 Radcom I think it was. The article accompanying this video was out of sync and appeared in Sep 21. Lots of info in the analysis article. Thanks for watching & commenting 😀
I've a very similar problem that's wiping out all of 80M and 40M. It's a constant awful S9 (sometimes ++) of similar crackling. OFCOM are involved but due to the pandemic are limited as to how involved they can get right now. They've located a very possible source yet the shop owner isn't responding to their contact. I'd be very interested in the details of the larger loop antenna for doing a similar thing myself as it renders most of the HF portion of the bands completely unworkable. It even gets to 6M and 2M on wet days. I was quite surprised as to just how far away from you the source was! But the usual cheap culprit to blame... Thank you for the video.
If your a licenced ham operator ofcom dont have a choice they have to investergate but word of warning if they find that it is something in your own home that causing the rfi then they will charge you it used to be £70 per hour so do your homework first
Hi, I went for a make/model made here in the UK so I knew it would be compliant. Plus it was a model I already had myself for charging my /P leisure battery.
Sorry I can’t remember the frequency, but it will be specific to the QRM you’re receiving, so not worth copying. I was on SSB as I found it easier than AM. Good luck if you go hunting 👍🏻
Very well done Ian. So have you "fixed" the offending charger or replaced it? Or do co=ordinate with your neighbour when you want to go on the bands? ....cheers
Thanks Roly! I’ve already ordered a new one to replace it. I’m going to offer to send this to the RSGB as they may want to dissect as part of their RFI work.
Great work Ian ! I presume the QRM was airborne and not mains driven ? It's such a relief when you are able to track down and deal with the QRM, isn't it ! I had a very similar issue a few months back myself, neighbours TV pumping hash in to the bands making them totally un workable. Some direction finding really helped and I offered to buy them a brand new TV and took the old one away. It was an older plasma style tv (video on my youtube page of the QRM it produced) I found your videos very useful, thank you. Enjoy the radio and maybe catch you on the air one day. 2E0UGE 73
Thanks Ross! Yes, that was my worst case scenario, having to fork out to replace a plasma TV 😮 It was airborne, but seemed to be using the mains lead, at least up to the consumer unit, as an antenna. The sniffer could pick up the rf along this chain. Will catch you on the air 👍🏻 73
Hi Andy. I would think it would be ok and worth a try if you have a bit spare and the plugs. I’m not 100% sure though. At worse, 1 metre of 213 plus two cheap plugs will probably be a fiver if all else fails. Good luck!
This and Bat Willows pinned comment genuinely shocked me. I don't do anything with radio in this regard but I do find it super interesting. It also really quite worries me. Your QRM being a tiny box several blocks away and Bat Willows being presumably an equally small one a MILE away. How much power do these tiny devices really put out, and why do they do it? I'm incredibly intrigued!
Did I read about this one on Facebook? It was all solved, but then the noise restarted and they've started using the charger again and refuse to turn it off? You mentioned about OfCom looking into it? It just sounds a familiar story. 73 de G0MOH.
That’s the third video in the series Adrian. If you look in the description the previous two video links are there. How to make the main loop is part of those (& measurements). It’s not frequency specific, so there is no 10m version, but it will work on 10m 👍🏻
Was that enough to really affect your ability to use your radio. I.E. making tough DX contacts? I ask because I have what I believe is Power Company Power line RFI. It actually gets up as high as S9+. I used a police scanner and home made Yagi (made for 130 Mhz) to find two seperate power poles that I believed were at issue. The power company came out and agreed that the two poles were both arcing. Unfortunately one of them because of difficulty to get to and a need to turn off many, many customers temporarily, pole number two may take a month to get to. I'm told by a guy at ARRL that I am doing well with my power company and I just need to give them some time. It has been a but of a nightmare. Weather and customer demand give a variable result. It started as the weather grew hotter and seems to be dropping off as things cool off. The one pole they did work on may have made things a bit better, but the pole they can't get to yet always seemed to be the big culprit. I am currently just trying to learn as much as I can. I fear there's a chance it's something like you dealt with in this video. I must admit though I've read that RFI that has hills and valleys as yours did would not be the power company. In your case of course it wasn't. I congratulate you. This is not the easiest thing to tackle and in my case has virtually destroyed my ability to get on the air for now. I am so curious as to just how strong was the RFI coming from this charger? If you turned off all preamp and filters in your beautiful Yaesu and point your antenna at the source, what was the S level?
Hi and good luck with the power pole getting fixed. It sounds like that’s your main source and you’ll only know what’s lurking underneath that noise, if anything, once it’s gone. Yes, a strong RFI source can block contacts on certain frequencies, but it’s also a constant annoyance as you scroll through the band, both in your ears and on the waterfall. It just shouldn’t be there. I have wire antennas and no longer have the problem, so I can’t say in terms of preamps etc. However, it was a significant impact on my normal operating procedures and settings, so that was bad enough for me. If you haven’t seen it already, one of the recent videos on the channel is also based on a RFI hunt. Good luck sorting yours 👍🏻
@@ianxfs wow I didn't really expect a reply but you did and told me what I wanted to know. I've always felt so bad for people that end up with this problem. I guess I thought it wouldn't happen to me. Oh my it's horrible. It sure was a nice turn that your neighbor didn't mind letting you explore his property. You must be really good with people. I like to think I am, but yesterday was weird. I was trying to use my portable short wave to zone in on the RFI. It's a good tool but it can just work from way too far away. Anyhow a woman that lives in the house in front of a pole that PGE concurred with me that it's arcing, started asking me questions about what I was doing. I wasn't in her yard or peering in her windows. I was just standing across the street from her house. I was explaining exactly what I was trying to do. She said, "I don't have any problems with MY radio". I told her if she played AM and turned her radio around in a circle she would definitely hear it. She started acting angry. Taking it very personally. As if I was criticizing her home. So I put my portable on AM and tuned near the high end of the scale. A super loud annoying buzz came out of the speaker. I asked her if she heard that. "Yes" she said. Well I told her, "thats AM radio". Then she says, "You must bot anything else to do with your time". (Holy smokes I thought) Well O said, I word five ten hour days a week, drive 3 hours a day in traffic to get there and back, then I run twenty miles a week to stay in shape so no, I do have many things I have to do every week. And I'd really rather not have to find a faulty piece of PGE's equipment so I can enjoy my hobby. "What do you mean faulty equipment?" Oh boy I steppes in it now. "Well I said, things wear out. I find out if there's a problem before the equipment can cause a problem." Then she says, "how come my radios don't have a problem?" Well I just showed you what an am radio sounds like across the street from your home. (She's quite elderly by way. And quite a pistol.) Now, the other twenty people I've run in to while walking the neighborhood with a Yagi and police scanner have been really great. They're very curious and I explain the best I can what the deal is. She's the first one that seemed irritated at my presence. And by the way, I love your portable setup to sniff the neighborhood. I would like to do something similar. I can't decide what to purchase though. They only radio I own currently that will do 2 meters and 70cm is my police scanner. Today and tomorrow I'm going to "improve" my home brew 2M Yagi. If that goes well I'll make one for 70cm. I just watched an ARRL video on the subject and this one says "you must" sniff on 440Mhz. O.K. I'll give it a try. Supposedly, the higher you move up in frequency, the closer you must be to the source of the arc. So 440Mhz is supposedly better to pinpoint the arc. Then I've read that you need an ultrasonic/rf sniffer to verify the arc. I have an ultrasonic dish, but from what I understand, you must have a line of sight path to the actual arc for an ultrasonic detector to show anything. I must admit, so far the only thing I've found with ultrasonic dish is a bee. Buy I haven't yet tried it on a PowerPoint that PGE had told me does actually have an arc. Yikes! It's quite complicated. Take care.
I've been waiting in anticipation for this! :) Great final result Ian. I see you have the charger now, was the gentleman happy to replace it themselves or did you offer to?
Taki problem jest u mnie w Polsce. Gdyby mnie zobaczyli sasiedzi z antena magnetyczna na ulicy to by mnie spotkala kara z ich strony. Nie chcialbym byc pobity. UKE balo sie wejsc do sasiadow.. Takie tu kolo krakowa mamy spoleczenstwo. Podoba mi sie ten pomysl z petla na rurce plastikowej. Jak zrobiles ta petle magnetyczna z koax ?
@@ianxfs Ian i went into the Shack had a big QRM issue tracked it down across the road to a VW Camper Van having its battery charged!! Thanks for the Vid !
Great little sleuthing series there Ian, So what did you do to erase the problem permanently. Ie - buy the guy a new no noise charger- or open it up for filter modification. Job Done, Well Done. 73 Barnie M7PBX.
Thats why every HAM operator should invest in a QRM phasor like mfj1026 or wimo to tackle this serious noise problem! Unregulated chinese chargers are everywhere
Is that one of the wish dot com chargers? A neighbour had a battery explode using one of those. It was chugging well over 15v so we suspect gassing and... there was little left of the 120AH battery case. Edit: I commented before the end of the vid. It's the same brand. I'd avoid them. They're battery killers, and apparently spurious emitters too.
There is another approach John. Invoke their own self-interest. Tell them that the interference is also slowing down their own Wifi speed and range. Also interference is often a sign of a power supply or charger overheating fault that could start a fire in their home. Cheers, Ian VK3BUF
OMG ! Iv'e been a long term sufferer of QRM... watched your videos on making the loop and sniffer, So straight into the shack and knocked them up, I printed out a local map and went on the hunt.... It took me about four days to track it down to a single house about a mile from my shack, which is on a hill, and about the same height as my attennas. Knocked on the door and explained what I was doing, with my radio and sniffer and said that they might be the house that was causing radio interference..... the loop was overwhelmed by the noise and I attached the sniffer and found it was a power unit for lights and air to an aqurium. They asked me about how they can cure it and I said I would find a "quiet" unit... Off I went to Dobbies with radio and loops, asked if they could "sniff" the fish tanks, none of their units made a noise, so I bought one (£18.00) and went back to the "offenders" home and gave it to them, they promptly replaced it and cut the wires off of the old one.Best £18.00 spent on my hobby and thanks to you, I can enjoy my radios, de G1YYU
How brilliant is that! Excellent result and well done that man! 😁
A great outcome on tracking down the source. We can all do this if we try. I prepared the original DF Loop article for QRM.GURU in VK. It's great to see so many operators around the world taking steps to reduce the noise floor. Well done!
Cheers, Ian Jackson, VK3BUF, from RASA, the Radio Amateur Society of Australia.
@@rasa2745 Cheers Ian! Thanks for the design and inspiration 👍🏻
Well done on the elimination and good on you rectifying the problem. With operators like yourself the hobby continues to leap forward. Truly inspiring. 73.
Congratulations on having compliant neighbours !!!
Fun video.
Little bit of history: in the Netherlands '40-'45 the occupying forces of the nazi's used similar techniques and mobile loop antenna's to locate transmitters that were used by the resistance to communicate coded messages back and forth with the government in exile in London. Sadly many transmitters and resistance people were captured. But as time passed the resistance got smarter as well and started to use mobile transmitters in order to make it harder for the nazi's to find them.
Thanks for the interesting history lesson 😀
Fantastic work and great news! I’m so pleased you were able to solve the problem and it’s reassuring to hear the homeowner was more than happy to work with you!
Yes all went as good as it could! 😀
Absolutely blew me away Ian that the distance from you location could cause so much grief..brilliant. keep em coming..john .73
Yes, shocking John isn’t it?! 😮
brilliant Ian. What a fantastic result, and big thumbs up to the homeowner who was willing to work with you. Sweet result !!!! 73 Richie.
Yes Richie and thanks! Cheap at the end of the day 😀 At least I wasn’t buying a new tv 😮
Wow, stumbled in here while looking at QRM eliminator video and all I can say is bravo for tracking down that piece of junk. Kudos to you neighbors for being helpful and supportive.
Thanks Vince! Yes, glad it’s long gone 😀 Hopefully there’s other videos in here you’ll like too 👍🏻
@@ianxfs I'll definitely check them out! 73, KC1PAN.
Excellent, I am so glad you had cooperative neighbors. Since the Christmas lights went up in the neighborhood 40 meters is unusable in the evening. I will have to build this sniffer and do some searching if it doesn't disappear in a few days.
Thanks Brian! Yes, the loop is the place to start. The sniffer is good to poke at things if everything is still turned on. A loop indoors may pick up upstairs as well as in front and behind you, so sniffer a good plan b of you get confusing signals. Good luck 👍🏻
I have the same problem at my QTH. As soon as the Christmas lights come on 40m is almost unusable at S9++. People have mostly took theirs down now and it’s much better. Funny how all these products meet UL or CSA standards but still emit so much QRM.
Thanks for the video from VA3XAP
A1... Glad you found a co-operative neighbour.
Yes, helped a lot 👍🏻
Amazing! Thank you for this. I too have a nasty broadband QRM source in my neighborhood. I will be building the loop you made to identify the source. My noise has peaks every 120hz starting from around 6mhz - 12mhz and only starts at night. Cheers!
Great, good luck Lyam! 👍🏻
Fantastic pleased you found the source and great the home owner played ball
Yes thanks Nigel! Yes, I’d be scuppered otherwise 😮
That’s Amazing !! I started having interference here and it’s across the entire HF Band. It’s a pulse signal.
Thanks and good luck finding yours 🤞🏻
Well done, maximum respect to the home owner too
Thanks! Yes, a big factor.
Awesome stuff Ian....not sure if any of my neighbors would be that helpful
Thanks Richie! Yes that’s a shame and something I was dreading. All worked out ok though, so you don’t know ‘til you knock. Ironically, I’d dropped a long, light-hearted, explanatory note around my neighbours some weeks back explaining what’s what and that I may be door-knocking asking for power-down help. This house was outside my immediate area, so never got that far! I’ll send another note out explaining the outcome 😀
Excellent Ian, great to know you have such helpful Neighbours in your area.
Thanks Colin! Yes, all went well 👍🏻
Fabulous Ian well sniffed out 👍👏👏
Yes Mark. Thanks!
Great job done there Ian, also good to see that the home owner was understanding. Brilliant.
Yes Mike. Played ball throughout. Getting him a new charger👍🏻
Yes, bottle of wine when I drop off the new charger 🍷😀
That is so impressive. I have only just started Ham Radio ( intermediate test in 2 weeks ) but I soon found there was a powerful QRM near home. Mine was so easy to find, it was my homemade power supply for my electronics hobby. There is only one other source affecting me and I have learned to live with it - it's the bell system of a school near home. I think they need a broadcasting licence !
Shame about the 🔔 👎🏻 Good luck with the test 🤞🏻
One of my most hated and most loved things is hunting down and finding RF generators in and around my home. Such highs and lows in dealing with RFI.
Good video, I like the sniffer idea!
Thanks! Yes, I made the sniffer in case the loop was overwhelmed close in. Both worked, so bonus 😀
cheap Cell phone chargers are often the culprit
That's awesome Ian! I can't believe how far that charger was interfering, just goes to show.
Yes Stewart. Frightening to think how far it reaches. I think it was working through the mains cabling as well as the sniffer was detecting it in the consumer unit in garage and on the extension lead plug where it was connected to the socket on the wall 😮
That was jolly good spirited of your neighbour to go along with your hunt, it could have been very different. It makes for a good series of videos that have a conclusion.
Yes Stephen. It would be a lot different if people don’t play ball. First impressions count 👍🏻
Nicely done!! ⚡️📻🍺
Thanks!
Appreciate you taking the time to give us a step by step run down of build and elimination Ian, been a subscriber ever since. 73, keep up the good work and nice to see Radcom giving you a page.
Thanks Mat! I still get emails from people who’ve read the article or gone back to it and used the loop to suss their QRM, which is great. Thanks again 😀
Well done Ian. Happy listening (without the noise!) 73
Yes Robin! Now need some air time to reap the rewards 😁
Excellent job Ian. That sniffer idea is genius!
I hate the cheap "Float" chargers, since they cycle on and off as needed for charging. It makes them harder to find as QRM. The cheaper they are, the worse they offend. I've got 3 of the "Battery Tender" brand in my garage along with my HF gear, and they cause no issue.
Thanks! Yes, this is definitely a dodgy brand and labelling and doesn’t meet the regs. Unfortunately there’s lots on the online sites, so can only get worse for us all 👎🏻
You have a good neighbor!!!!
Yes it helps a lot! 👍🏻
I had a pulse charger for a cordless drill. It caused interference for a 1.5-mile range. The problem is, I didn't have that problem before. So I unplugged it and ran it off a battery/ inverter -- no problems, no signals. Only while operating with the mains/electrical receptacle.
At least you sorted it Clifford 👍🏻
Absolutely fantastic (as Gary Barlow would say),,,,what a great ending and it showed some real community spirit on the part of the 'offenders'.
I do hope that sniffing out QRM doesn't take up all your time and now become your new hobby,,,or, perhaps it could become your new profession, now there's a thing !
Ha ha yes Tim! It’s long gone now thank god 😀
Great outcome 👍 I found my bad source of interference was only on 40m and after powering down was still the ssme UNTIL I took my Samsung mobile phone off my workstation desk (wasn't even on charge) and problem sorted :)
Well done on finding that one Andy! Would have drove you nuts!
great work Ian, really need to get mine built. You seem to have very cooperative neighbours.
Great and thanks. See the latest video with an amended loop design 👍🏻Good luck.
I had a battery charger get me too. It was on my boat right next to the antenna. It made a heck of a racket. I put it on a timer so it's on when I'm asleep. But I should get a better one.
Yes Mike, a timer is another idea 👍🏻
Nice detective work. My neighbors would not help me as yours did. Cheers de N9NY Gregg
Ok thanks Gregg.
Great video. I love the sniffer antenna you made.
I have also found a drill charger to be the cause of interference for a customer once before. The same customer also had a gcfi outlet, computer processor, and many LED lights that were causing ingress into his TV antenna. All the accumulated noise caused issues with his VHF band.
When neighbors are helpful, it's great to be able to identify the issues, but in cases where we have no access to the noise source, then system changes can sometimes help. Besides identifying the noise sources, I have also found that the inside wiring has to remain completely closed and tight from the balun all the way to the connected devices. All unused ports must be terminated. If there are any RF leaks and ingress in the coax system, it starts to act like an antenna. A slightly loose connection can cause issues and so can a poorly compressed connector Faulty, cheap and in-house leaky equipment can also cause leakage and ingress. Of course, I am speaking mostly of 75 ohm TV systems, but the 50 ohm systems also share the same problems. If we think of the entire coax system as plumbing, it easily becomes clear how and where the weak points are. If a coax accidentally gets poked by a drill when securing the wire, the jab can then allow RF leakage and absorb ingress too. With TVs, the baluns are wound to tie into the outer shielding. It's how 75 ohm systems work. This also closes off the antenna at the balun transformer, making it easier to start our leak free plumbing/coax from the antenna down.
Thanks. Great comment and plumbing analogy 👍🏻
Good find!. Luckily you have very good neighbours. Sadly my neighbours aren't always as approachable as that. Last year I had one come banging on my door aggressively accusing me of causing TV interference when I wasn't even using the radio. I went round and took a look at it for him and it turned out he hadn't tightened the bolts attaching the pole his tv antenna was mounted on to the wall bracket and it was blowing around in the wind. A week later my burglar alarm went off while I was out and instead of just politely letting me know he tried to smash the bell box off the front of the house then came banging on my windows at 6am the next morning effing and blinding at me.
Crikey Ben, that’s not good is it?
Glad you found it 👍
Thanks Eddie!
A small battery tender, never would have suspected that.
Congrats.
Sorted and gone now Chaz 👍🏻
Fantastic Ian! Excellent Videos as always, very informative, thanks for putting together.
Thanks James! Glad it’s sorted 😮
Very good video. I now have a plan to track down similar interference in my area. Thank You!
Thanks and good luck Earl!
That is great. The sniffer idea looks like it could be something that a lot of folks could use, even in their own homes. Magic result too. and you now have another battery charger :-)
Ha ha, yes Chris, a spare charger that’s about to meet up with a 🔨😁
@@ianxfs :-)
I suppose one thing to note out of this is, be it a 500 or 5000 pound radio, interference is no 1 enemy...and will only get worse in time, as everything is electronic these days.
Glad you got it sorted Ian.
Thanks and yes Robbie!
Good job. Well done.
Thanks!
Excellent work. I had terrible local RFI,it was a wire laid around a neighbors garden pumping out 24/7 HF rfi to control a robot lawnmower . Luckily neighbors cooperated and a filter solved the problem. Cheers Dave. Ei3ixb
Thanks Dave! That’s an unusual one, but well spotted and sorted 👍🏻
Experienced the same sort of thing on an SDR receiver here, same Foxsur brand charger in a shed. I ended up "financially encouraging" the guy to use a Ring RSC804, not heard a peep out of that one.
Brilliant!
If only I had such cooperative neighbors :/
Sorry to hear that Al…
Great work. Such devices are another type of Chinese pandemic. A diplomatic approach is the best (possibly only) way to get a satisfactory resolution to RFI.
PS: It would have been good to mention at the end what that resolution is. I see that you've mentioned it in the comments, but the final ep of a cliffhanger needs to be wrapped up -- or do you intend for there to be a Part 4?
PPS: This from QRZ forum Oct 2019:
"The name brand of the POS charger is FOXSUR and it clearly says it is a 4AH I'm kicking myself for not figuring it out sooner since the noise was a pulse type noise. The range of that interference surprised me. Like WR2E I need to put a charger on my ATV during cold WX (it was 7 degrees last night)."
and
"If you open it I bet you’ll find an area on the circuit board near the AC power cord for RFI filter components that aren’t stuffed [populated] (or maybe no provision at all). I would also bet that it has a fake CE mark, maybe a fake UL mark too, or none."
Thanks for the comment James. I’ll tweak the description to explain I’ve swapped it out for free. No cliffhanger I’m afraid and I’ll be glad to see the back of it 😀 Excellent QRZ extract 😀
Ian - this report really comes alive on Video. The printed one was good to read, but this is even easier to follow, Unfortunately, living on an ex-council estate near Liverpool means far too many sources around! All the best. Kev, M0TNX
Thanks Kev! Have a good 2022 👍🏻
Good work Ian!! Another great video 👍
Thanks Paul!
HI,good video, interesting subject, it's not too practical were i live, but good for you, thanks from Rotterdam.
Thanks John!
great 👍 73s
👍🏻
Outstanding work. Great set of videos too. 👍
Thanks!
Back again!... just today, 6m here has become wiped out with S9+20dB of noise. 6m has been great until this morning and now the band is completely unusable. The noise sounds very similar to your experience with the charger. Someone online pointed me to the RadCom edition of your DF loop. Looks like I will have to put one together and go DF hunting with my FT817. Looking in my log we worked on 2m SSB 5th April this year. Not bad 'DX' from here! 73 - G0MOH, IO70.
Nice to work you and good luck with that QRM hunt 👍🏻
Well done! I can’t get over the distance from the qrm source it’s scary
Thanks! Yes, imagine other dodgy chargers being bought by others and the distance could have been much further going on the signal strength on the main antenna. Scary 😮
Great result, Ian. I've been reading your replies to comments and I can see you put a good amount of preliminary work into the job as well. Full marks.
I'm certain Steve M1ACB will know of someone interested in the offending item!
Cheers,
Mick
Thanks Mick! 👍🏻
Good technical and personal skills om!
73, W0KU
Thanks Scott!
Yes, the Chinese chargers are a problem. Tracked some 40kHz noise to a neighbors house, with hood up on car and tiny charger at work. Similar situation in marina, with switchmode chargers on every vessel. Some good, some very bad...
It’s not good Dave is it? As time goes on, these things will multiply, as guessing old ones take a while to die...👎🏻
Brilliant Ian.
Very happy you got to the button of that noise source.
Very helpful video.
I may build a similar set-up in the near future too.
73 de Kevin, VK4KK
Thanks Kevin! Yes, easy project with some straightforward bits 👍🏻
My neighbours sadly would just shut the door in my face , because I’m the problem having a DX commander in the garden .
Not good Paul. Hopefully you never get into the same position with QRM.
There is an approach you can use Paul. Invoke their own self-interest. Tell them that the interference is also slowing down their own Wifi speed and range. Also interference is often a sign of a power supply or charger overheating fault that could start a fire in their home. Cheers, Ian VK3BUF
Very well done Ian, am I right in thinking that you use the loops null to get a line?
I had a very loud QRN and used an FT817 with it's rubber duck and did it by looking at the null direction.
I think a loop like yours would be much better and quicker though.
I eventually traced my QRN to an Estate Agent about 300 yards away and of course walking up to the door (at 2AM) found the signal was swamping the little 817's front end.
Went in the next day and like your neighbour they were very cooperative.
It was traced to a decorative LED light of Chinese manufacture,
They very kindly left it switched off.
They recently sold the property to a Kitchen shop and I had a chat with the new owner who said dont worry I am stripping it out as It's Chinese rubbish.
Thankfully new shop fit is RF quiet so it was job done.
73 Mike G3ZCC
Excellent Mike! Yes, the loop face-on is a deep null. Easy to walk about twisting it on it’s axis between face and edge-on to get a bearing and another line 😀
Nice solution Ian. I suffer virtually the same issue here and some more even using a magnetic loop.. it's almost impossible for me to locate the source as it could be from any apartment or house near me. frustration is an understatement. 73s
Ah yes Steve, if there’s multiple heights involved then that would be difficult. Fingers crossed you get a break 👍🏻
When the interference seems to be coming from all directions, start working your way up the spectrum as you use the loop. When you find the highest frequency that the noise occurs, it will be easier to DF. Take a look at a video I uploaded on the topic: ruclips.net/video/nx3DbdoySJg/видео.html
Great to see that you had a cooperative owner of the noise source.
Anything in particular that you said to them that persuaded that cooperativeness?
Imagine knowing where it's coming from and not being able to eliminated it.
Hi. Ironically I’d already done a leaflet drop to my near neighbours, explaining the hobby, the beauty of a quiet background and the frustration of man-made noise etc etc. Everyone was keen to help and offered power-off tests etc. This house was further away, but I used the same approach on the doorstep. A key aspect may have been my offer to replace the offending item having already explained it was likely to be something small….all went well 👍🏻ps. Everyone (including people in the street) were really interested in what I was doing and quite shocked at me demonstrating the noise 😀
@@ianxfs Thanks. It feels so good know that nice people are still out there. As always it's probably 99.9% but all we seem to hear about is the 0.1%
Would you mind sharing what make and model charger you bought for your neighbour as i have had exactly the same problem for the last 12 months, it was a window cleaner charging multiple car batteries for his van electric pumps. Without this video i would never have found the problem, so a BIG THANK you for the DF loop idea.
Brilliant! The model is a Maypole 8A MP7428. I use one myself and costs about £30. Made in Britain 👍🏻Good luck 😀
Thank you for sharing and I hate to say it but many products from this area do not meet emissions. Why its cheaper to not use anything to stop the noise.
It’s a bad situation indeed 👎🏻
Awesome! Thanks!!
Great!
Really good instructional video. Thanks
Thanks Martin!
Just watching the loop build video now.
There’s three in that particular series James. You may be watching them backwards....😁
@@ianxfs I was indeed Ian but rearranged myself somewhat and watched them all HiHi, once again, thank you for taking the time to produce such a useful set of short videos. Very helpful.
Hopefully I can find the source of my interference as its really spoiling the hobby for me.
I can't see Ofcom being able to take it up for the foreseeable and I've been plagued with this noise for over a year now.
Its so frustrating but a sign of the times as we all fear.
Cutting into some RG213 as I write!
Fingers crossed James!
I recently bought an RTLSDR and have a similar issue across many bands. I do live in Port Talbot within half a mile of the Steelworks so that prob doesn’t help as they have an arcFurnace among other things.
Crikey, yes Jonny it might melt!
Very interesting, thanks.
Thanks!
Interesting. That charger is very similar to one I had that gave the same issues purchased from Amazon here in the US. There appears to be multiple branding on this Chinese design. Upon investigation internally the common mode suppression choke had been linked out (removed) and the filter capacitors not installed. Putting suitable components in cured the issue. The unit was labelled FCC part 15 which would have only been achievable with the suppression components fitted!! Either it was not tested or if tested the components not installed during production to save a few pennies (as the board was clearly marked for them). When it comes to coincidences I am a British ex Pat amateur and you guessed it my name is IAN. One trick I learned professionally when tracking interference was to work out where the QRM was NOT coming from!! by doing this when measuring on the reciprocal bearing any interference apparently coming from the low QRM direction was generally caused by local reflections. Of course this was automated with a receiver and computer making hundreds of measurements while driving around an area. The resulting heat map indicated exactly where the QRM/source was. The technique is still in use today by multiple government agencies to track....
@@ianatkins5460 Thanks for commenting Ian. Yes, the RSGB covered this charger in one of the Radcom issues and found the same in terms of missing parts. A few years on and I tracked down another and had it replaced ☹️
Hey you are very lucky! I've investigated a similar problem and found residents much less helpful! 73s G6TVJ
Yes I can imagine. That’s the tricky bit….
Splendid Ian, thanks. The big source of angst among many hams is approaching house owners and dealing with it with diplomacy. Your vid shows good methodology to solving it without fall-outs. Did the chap with the charger agree to buy a new one (perhaps with ‘proper’ CE compliance rather than ‘China Engineering compliance’) or did you go halves or maybe agree if he could just use it overnight when you were dreaming of DX?
A couple of years back I did a Churches & Chapels on the Air event (special call etc). Bands were unusable and noise was traced to old-ish heating system (when turned off ALL noise disappeared). It also pointed to the need for possible electrical checkover/maintenance required and they found an issue with a motor on a pump, relatively cheap and easy changed to give some future proofing and possible fire prevention. A win-win!
All the best- Nick
Hi Nick! I’ve ordered him a new one for free. It could have been a tv I suppose, so I got off lightly 😀 I was willing to swap-out whatever was the offending item for the sake of clear bands 👍🏻 Ironically, I’d tee’d up all my neighbours about amateur radio/QRM and helping me find and sort it. They were all keen to power-off for me, but I said I’d do a bit of rf hunting first. Sod’s Law this wasn’t an immediate neighbour, but happy to help none the less 👍🏻
@@ianxfs great! The difficulty might be getting a ‘noise-free’ charger (or at least sourcing it with a 14 day ‘no quibble’ returns). I bought a 36Ah LiFePO4 battery approx 6 months ago (amazing weight saving for backpack portable vs lead acid and ace for holding up on V) BUT the charger ain’t half noisy so I charge when not in the shack. I just hope it doesn’t cause probs to my ham mate up the road...... have a good week.
Yes Nick. Buying another one that I already have. If there’s still noise then will put it on a timer for the middle of the night 👍🏻 You too!
Hi Ian, I’ve been following this with a great deal of interest. I’m so pleased that you managed to track and resolve the QRM issue. Also some excellent little antenna projects to help others lactate noise of their own. Great work. M7BCN
Thanks Brian! Yes, hopefully others can benefit too 👍🏻
Hi Ian,
Nice series of videos to track down the noise source. Kind of the neighbors to help out. If you have the charger, how about trying some toroid RFI filters to see if the noise can be eliminated? 73 WJ3U
Hi Don and thanks! I’m going to contact the RSGB to see if they want to dissect it for the greater good 👍🏻
Were does the 3.5mm Former go please as you do not show this in the video? Thank you.
Hi Dave. I don’t have a 3.5mm drill bit, but I point out in the video that the piece of black wire I found which is on the work table is 3.5mm. After using it, I’m not sure whether the half mm to either 3 or 4 mm would make much of a difference? You might have a screwdriver handle or nail etc that might be 3.5? Good luck!
I have found my Microwave when in standby causes a lot of interference on MW and LW!
I switch it off at the socket now😀
Crikey Roger, I’ve not heard of that one before...at least you’re in control of it!
It was not that much the charger itself radiating, but the wires from it were the antenna. A few clamp on ferrites and it should be better.
But I'm suspecting some of the internal components of the charger are just about to die, with a big smoke, normally it is hardly ever necessary to add any extra filter components around a SMPS for anything higher than above 2MHz, beside a reasonable design of the SMPS physical construction (and that is a must even to reach any good efficiency and reliability, so save quite a lot of cost on heatsink, by the way, so dtrong motivation even for cheepeese to do it right), it does not need any extra expensive components (just one cheap Y2 capacitor as an emi-only related component is enough). That makes me think it is just faulty unit (some sparking cold joint or a bad capacitor) and not a bad design by itself...
Hi Anna. Thanks for the reply. This charger also appeared in an RSGB article here in the UK. They have no suppression built in apparently. I’m
swapping this one out 👍🏻
Were you able to fit any type of suppressor to the charger to resolve the problem? Thanks for an interesting video. G6ATO
Hi Bill. I didn’t bother. I sent it off to the RSGB for analysis. It appeared in Apr 21 Radcom I think it was. The article accompanying this video was out of sync and appeared in Sep 21. Lots of info in the analysis article. Thanks for watching & commenting 😀
Don't worry about the appearance. You build 'em to work, not to look at!
Ha ha yes!
I've a very similar problem that's wiping out all of 80M and 40M. It's a constant awful S9 (sometimes ++) of similar crackling. OFCOM are involved but due to the pandemic are limited as to how involved they can get right now.
They've located a very possible source yet the shop owner isn't responding to their contact.
I'd be very interested in the details of the larger loop antenna for doing a similar thing myself as it renders most of the HF portion of the bands completely unworkable. It even gets to 6M and 2M on wet days.
I was quite surprised as to just how far away from you the source was!
But the usual cheap culprit to blame...
Thank you for the video.
Thanks and good luck James 🤞🏻
well done, will make one and go around my area as the QRM is that high its blanking MW as well! OFCOM and the BBC are not interested!
Thanks Jason and good luck!
If your a licenced ham operator ofcom dont have a choice they have to investergate but word of warning if they find that it is something in your own home that causing the rfi then they will charge you it used to be £70 per hour so do your homework first
Hi Ian Thanks for sharing your experience for RFI finding. How did decide which battery charger would be less or free from RFI for the replacement?
Hi, I went for a make/model made here in the UK so I knew it would be compliant. Plus it was a model I already had myself for charging my /P leisure battery.
Awesome
Thanks!
@ianxfs on which frequency did you listen for the QRM, and on AM of SSB?
Sorry I can’t remember the frequency, but it will be specific to the QRM you’re receiving, so not worth copying. I was on SSB as I found it easier than AM. Good luck if you go hunting 👍🏻
Very well done Ian. So have you "fixed" the offending charger or replaced it? Or do co=ordinate with your neighbour when you want to go on the bands? ....cheers
Thanks Roly! I’ve already ordered a new one to replace it. I’m going to offer to send this to the RSGB as they may want to dissect as part of their RFI work.
Great work Ian ! I presume the QRM was airborne and not mains driven ?
It's such a relief when you are able to track down and deal with the QRM, isn't it ! I had a very similar issue a few months back myself, neighbours TV pumping hash in to the bands making them totally un workable. Some direction finding really helped and I offered to buy them a brand new TV and took the old one away. It was an older plasma style tv (video on my youtube page of the QRM it produced)
I found your videos very useful, thank you.
Enjoy the radio and maybe catch you on the air one day.
2E0UGE
73
Thanks Ross! Yes, that was my worst case scenario, having to fork out to replace a plasma TV 😮 It was airborne, but seemed to be using the mains lead, at least up to the consumer unit, as an antenna. The sniffer could pick up the rf along this chain. Will catch you on the air 👍🏻 73
hi ian,,,,,, would mini 8 coax work for the loop or would you reccomend the rg213
Hi Andy. I would think it would be ok and worth a try if you have a bit spare and the plugs. I’m not 100% sure though. At worse, 1 metre of 213 plus two cheap plugs will probably be a fiver if all else fails. Good luck!
This and Bat Willows pinned comment genuinely shocked me. I don't do anything with radio in this regard but I do find it super interesting. It also really quite worries me. Your QRM being a tiny box several blocks away and Bat Willows being presumably an equally small one a MILE away. How much power do these tiny devices really put out, and why do they do it? I'm incredibly intrigued!
Yes frightening isn’t it? Small amount of power but well radiated unfortunately.
Did I read about this one on Facebook? It was all solved, but then the noise restarted and they've started using the charger again and refuse to turn it off? You mentioned about OfCom looking into it? It just sounds a familiar story. 73 de G0MOH.
No. This one definitely sorted 👍🏻
The job's a good one as they say! Enjoy the interference free zone you created.
Thanks Bob! Yes, now time to get back on the air 😀
What’s the dimensions of the loop? (Perimeter) Also, is there any special length for 10m? Thanks
That’s the third video in the series Adrian. If you look in the description the previous two video links are there. How to make the main loop is part of those (& measurements). It’s not frequency specific, so there is no 10m version, but it will work on 10m 👍🏻
Excellent now I must try to do the same lol least now I know how to go about it ..tnx 73 de ve3hip from Welland Ontario Canada 🇨🇦
Thanks and hello to Canada 🇨🇦 😀
Was that enough to really affect your ability to use your radio. I.E. making tough DX contacts?
I ask because I have what I believe is Power Company Power line RFI. It actually gets up as high as S9+. I used a police scanner and home made Yagi (made for 130 Mhz) to find two seperate power poles that I believed were at issue. The power company came out and agreed that the two poles were both arcing. Unfortunately one of them because of difficulty to get to and a need to turn off many, many customers temporarily, pole number two may take a month to get to. I'm told by a guy at ARRL that I am doing well with my power company and I just need to give them some time. It has been a but of a nightmare. Weather and customer demand give a variable result. It started as the weather grew hotter and seems to be dropping off as things cool off. The one pole they did work on may have made things a bit better, but the pole they can't get to yet always seemed to be the big culprit. I am currently just trying to learn as much as I can. I fear there's a chance it's something like you dealt with in this video. I must admit though I've read that RFI that has hills and valleys as yours did would not be the power company. In your case of course it wasn't. I congratulate you. This is not the easiest thing to tackle and in my case has virtually destroyed my ability to get on the air for now. I am so curious as to just how strong was the RFI coming from this charger? If you turned off all preamp and filters in your beautiful Yaesu and point your antenna at the source, what was the S level?
Hi and good luck with the power pole getting fixed. It sounds like that’s your main source and you’ll only know what’s lurking underneath that noise, if anything, once it’s gone. Yes, a strong RFI source can block contacts on certain frequencies, but it’s also a constant annoyance as you scroll through the band, both in your ears and on the waterfall. It just shouldn’t be there. I have wire antennas and no longer have the problem, so I can’t say in terms of preamps etc. However, it was a significant impact on my normal operating procedures and settings, so that was bad enough for me. If you haven’t seen it already, one of the recent videos on the channel is also based on a RFI hunt. Good luck sorting yours 👍🏻
@@ianxfs wow I didn't really expect a reply but you did and told me what I wanted to know. I've always felt so bad for people that end up with this problem. I guess I thought it wouldn't happen to me. Oh my it's horrible. It sure was a nice turn that your neighbor didn't mind letting you explore his property. You must be really good with people. I like to think I am, but yesterday was weird. I was trying to use my portable short wave to zone in on the RFI. It's a good tool but it can just work from way too far away. Anyhow a woman that lives in the house in front of a pole that PGE concurred with me that it's arcing, started asking me questions about what I was doing. I wasn't in her yard or peering in her windows. I was just standing across the street from her house. I was explaining exactly what I was trying to do. She said, "I don't have any problems with MY radio". I told her if she played AM and turned her radio around in a circle she would definitely hear it. She started acting angry. Taking it very personally. As if I was criticizing her home. So I put my portable on AM and tuned near the high end of the scale. A super loud annoying buzz came out of the speaker. I asked her if she heard that. "Yes" she said. Well I told her, "thats AM radio". Then she says, "You must bot anything else to do with your time". (Holy smokes I thought) Well O said, I word five ten hour days a week, drive 3 hours a day in traffic to get there and back, then I run twenty miles a week to stay in shape so no, I do have many things I have to do every week. And I'd really rather not have to find a faulty piece of PGE's equipment so I can enjoy my hobby. "What do you mean faulty equipment?"
Oh boy I steppes in it now. "Well I said, things wear out. I find out if there's a problem before the equipment can cause a problem." Then she says, "how come my radios don't have a problem?" Well I just showed you what an am radio sounds like across the street from your home. (She's quite elderly by way. And quite a pistol.)
Now, the other twenty people I've run in to while walking the neighborhood with a Yagi and police scanner have been really great. They're very curious and I explain the best I can what the deal is. She's the first one that seemed irritated at my presence.
And by the way, I love your portable setup to sniff the neighborhood. I would like to do something similar. I can't decide what to purchase though. They only radio I own currently that will do 2 meters and 70cm is my police scanner.
Today and tomorrow I'm going to "improve" my home brew 2M Yagi. If that goes well I'll make one for 70cm. I just watched an ARRL video on the subject and this one says "you must" sniff on 440Mhz. O.K. I'll give it a try. Supposedly, the higher you move up in frequency, the closer you must be to the source of the arc. So 440Mhz is supposedly better to pinpoint the arc. Then I've read that you need an ultrasonic/rf sniffer to verify the arc. I have an ultrasonic dish, but from what I understand, you must have a line of sight path to the actual arc for an ultrasonic detector to show anything. I must admit, so far the only thing I've found with ultrasonic dish is a bee. Buy I haven't yet tried it on a PowerPoint that PGE had told me does actually have an arc.
Yikes! It's quite complicated.
Take care.
I've been waiting in anticipation for this! :) Great final result Ian. I see you have the charger now, was the gentleman happy to replace it themselves or did you offer to?
Thanks Sean! Yes, I offered at the outset that I’d replace whatever was faulty, if possible. Might have been £hundreds, but fortunately it wasn’t 👍🏻
Taki problem jest u mnie w Polsce. Gdyby mnie zobaczyli sasiedzi z antena magnetyczna na ulicy to by mnie spotkala kara z ich strony. Nie chcialbym byc pobity. UKE balo sie wejsc do sasiadow.. Takie tu kolo krakowa mamy spoleczenstwo. Podoba mi sie ten pomysl z petla na rurce plastikowej. Jak zrobiles ta petle magnetyczna z koax ?
☹️
Really enjoyed this and great news you found it! And i am sure you bought him a better charger!!??
Yes Jon. New one on order 👍🏻
@@ianxfs Ian i went into the Shack had a big QRM issue tracked it down across the road to a VW Camper Van having its battery charged!! Thanks for the Vid !
@@Jonshome337 Brilliant Jon. Really glad you got sorted 👍🏻
Great little sleuthing series there Ian, So what did you do to erase the problem permanently. Ie - buy the guy a new no noise charger- or open it up for filter modification. Job Done, Well Done.
73 Barnie M7PBX.
Hi Barnie! I’ve got it now and ordered him another, so all happy! 😀
Nice one, a small price to pay for QRM harmony, I Suppose👍
Thats why every HAM operator should invest in a QRM phasor like mfj1026 or wimo to tackle this serious noise problem! Unregulated chinese chargers are everywhere
Yes, or better still, track it down 👍🏻
I've got RFI all over 118 to 130 mhz, started about 6 months ago. No idea whats causing it.
Good luck tracking it down 👍🏻
Is that one of the wish dot com chargers? A neighbour had a battery explode using one of those. It was chugging well over 15v so we suspect gassing and... there was little left of the 120AH battery case. Edit: I commented before the end of the vid. It's the same brand. I'd avoid them. They're battery killers, and apparently spurious emitters too.
Yes Nathan. It will never see service again! ⚰️👀👍🏻
Subscribed loved the videos well presented.
Thanks!
Brilliant, glad you got it sorted Ian 👍🏻 Paul - 2E0OPV
Thanks Paul! Glad that’s over 👍🏻
Ian, not sure if I have asked this when you first uploaded, but what can you do if the home owner is uncooperative?
Ultimately Ofcom John. With a log of evidence, timings etc.
@@ianxfs Thank you Ian; I suspected that would be the path.
There is another approach John. Invoke their own self-interest. Tell them that the interference is also slowing down their own Wifi speed and range. Also interference is often a sign of a power supply or charger overheating fault that could start a fire in their home. Cheers, Ian VK3BUF