Hello Roly nice to see the movies you had make very interesting I am not a ham station I only listening to them Greetings from the Netherlands and maybe I hear you someday PA0021SWL
Adding to your experiment Roly I often wondered why you give me a readability 5 in your RST reports to me from my summit when I sometimes give you R 3 in my RST report in return. I run 8 Watts on summits and assume you run 100 Watts from home. That RX antenna is a great idea. Regards Ian vk5cz ..
So one end connects to driven or centre of the coax and the other end comes back to the driven pin also with radials on the shield or the other end comes back to the shield with the radials? Some people have been having success using a loop like this as the aux antenna for vk5 or similar noise cancellers.
Great to see more videos like this; helping out the urban and suburban DXers like us. I use a KK5JY Loop on Ground RX antenna. I tried to post youtube links to the build and the results here, but the comment appears to have been blocked. Thanks for posting this video, Roly...great stuff! 73! de WX0V
Hey Roly....... I have to figure out a way to get the larger loop configured. ( I have obstacles to contend with....lol..... Did something interesting. 150' of RG6U coax on the ground with the shield and the center conductor soldered together..... WOW factor..... went from S9 noise floor to S3 on 40M. S/N ratio is fantastic....... picking CW right out of the floor...... can't even see the signal on the panadapter from the off center fed. works decent on 20.... but really don't need it there.... my Hex is pretty quite........ I'm looking forward to try it tonight on 80 and 160
Now that is interesting. So basically all you have done is increased the conductor surface area at the same height above ground...... must have a look at that....cheers
I have never used one but worth investigating. I have no trouble in letting the smoke soak out, it's getting it back in again that is the challenge.....cheers
Nice work Roly... it sure makes a big difference. I feel sorry for you urban hams with all the noise ....I live way out in the country with no neighbors within a 6 mile radius.... it's quiet out here.
Receive loop doesn''t need to be above ground. I'm running websdr (can be found on PA3FWM websdr site - search for so8oo websdr) using loop on ground antenna. There are ofcourse better antennas, but considerig used space it is a great performer. I make automated FT8 reporting to pskreporter - search there for SN0E station. There are spots from all over world. My antenna is lying on the ground, it is rectangle (6 m x 6 m) fed in the corner. Proper feedline decoupling is a must!
I use a MFJ 1026 and rx antenna that can receive the local noise as good or better than my main HF tx vertical, using the mfj 1026, I can phase out the local noise no problem...Works for me de Ei2iP..
Thanks Robbie. Is that local noises that can be individually singled out, say a local plasma TV or does it deal to the total noise floor? Whatever works is always good news of course... Cheers
how do you connect this to the radio? Is it just one end to the centre of the antenna input on the radio and the other end to the earth side? Or is a balun or something needed in between?
I recall using a loop antenna on 80m late last century. It had many poles holding it up and was anything from fence height to 11m high in places, but was quiet and worked brilliantly from VK4 into VK6. Only thing I never figured out how to do was automatic switching from TX to RX at 400w (or 1.5kw for those that can use it). Thought about automotive relays but wasn't sure if they were OK at HF. Cheers Adam VK4IM
Ahh switching is always a problem in the traditional sense. Many of the modern rigs have a seperate Rx input which is automatically switched on Tx. That feature is what i am using.....cheers
That's fine Tim, my parents were too poor to afford two "l's" in my name, hence Roly. (Actually my name is Roland but my wife started calling me Roly much to the displeasure of my dear Mother.......) cheers
HIII ROLY GREAT INFO ,,, I HAVE ONE QUESTION , WILL ACTIVE NOISE CANCELLING HEAD PHONE DO JOB HF RADIO NOISE SUPRESSION AND ALSO Ground Loop Noise Isolator for Car Audio/Home Stereo System with 3.5mm Audio Cable WILL WORK OF REDUCING HF NOISE , KINDLY COMMENT ON IT
This video is about RF noise not noise induced into audio systems or physical noise. Your suggestions won't help much with atmospheric RF noise, cheers
Roly TERRIFIC VIDEO!!! I’d love to use it to help others. I’ll credit your channel and put a link to it in the description section. We’ll laid out and relaxed. Keep up the great work!
Hi Roly, reading the comments, I'm a little confused. Is the loop you've made a receive antenna, or a loop of wire connected to ground (the plate on the DX commander that connects to the ground radials) to try and absorb interference ? 73, VK3LSR
really interesting Roly I have a W6IUV preamp to build and always thought about putting it on a loop (like a wellbrook) but this looks interesting my only problem is there's a whole lot of concrete where I'd like to return to the shack so I''d have to come up to about 7 or 8 feet then it starts to loose some of the benfits either that or I bury it and return it back along the same route for about 15 feet making a sort of ladder line ... I think this is a 3 mug of coffee problem 🤣
Maybe even a 4 cuppa...... Well the old adage of "suck it and see" comes to mind..... Please let us know how you get on with the preamp. I have one here which is very suitable, however the concern i have is front end overload to the Receiver. The IC-7300 has plenty of "preamp" as it is so an additional 30dB up front maybe a little much.......cheers
Thanks much! Currently fighting noise while listening to the aircraft NDB beacon band, below the AM broadcast band and your video gives me hope! 60 years licensed & I’m back to mainly SWLing! Best wishes from the north of Michigan, where it’s currently minus 22 degrees C ! Dennis W8MI PS our daughter recently did her Student Teaching in Howick, Cockle Bay, not far from family friend, the late Brian Egan, ZL1LE
HI Dennis Cockle Bay is only about 5Kms away from my QTH, know it well Knew Brian very well also, we were often sparing partners chasing some elusive DX......cheers
Good job Roly but one thing is missing here how to coneect the wire to my antenna system, there is no drawing to show I need more in details please. Thanks A92FF
Roly, I'm considering doing a LOG antenna in my back yard. The garden is about 70 feet wide by about 60 feet deep. There is a 6 foot tall wooden fence along the 70 foot length and along the two 60 foot sides there is an aluminum fence. Do you think that putting the wire at the base of the two aluminum fences will significantly negatively impact the loop? I know that I can just throw some wire out there and try it, but I don't have 260 feet of wire just laying around at the moment, nor materials to make the 9:1 balun (?). Also, given that my lot is largely North/South (the 70 foot back fence is maybe rotated 4 degrees anti-clockwise, I would assume that the primary lobes will be at about 41 degrees and 221 degrees, which largely puts most of the signal in unusable directions.
Just a practical consideration of being able to trim the garden without cutting or pulling out the wire. Actually, more than 50% of the wire is buried under leaf mould now anyway ...... cheers
hi roly. hpe ur well. I wonder if you found any directivity , depending where you place the feed point, and I wonder, if you took away the grounding side, whether it made any noticeable difference . 73 brian zl3xdj.
Hi Brian Thanks for the input, these are all configurations i will be trying over the next little while. So stay tuned as they say and we will see what happens....cheers
I used a garden hose with running water. It is fairly sandy so i was able to "pus" a hole through quite easily. That method would not work in rocky or heavy clay soils though. Cheers
Hi Roly, that is a fascinating demonstration/experiment, some time ago I ran a very low wire (not a loop) close to the ground and I also found an improved S/N, it was fascinating to use it to feed the sub-receiver and listen in "stereo". In common with you there were a few places that have stopped me making a full loop, it never occurred to me to go underground for those sections. I shall have to investigate, as for the apparent insensitivity it may be interesting to see what passive impedance matching can achieve, but I know you are continuing your work. 73
Agreed, a passive impedance match is next on the block. Goodness knows what it is at the moment but a proper 1:1 match will at least achieve max energy transfer in the system. Cheers
Hi Roly, interesting idea, I will definitely try it. In the spirit of a scientific experiment, do you have a reference to the theory behind this antenna, how it works, and why it works, and what you might vary to see how the results change? For example if you elevated it would that help or make things worse? Very interesting result…. 73, VK4QP
I am trying to get back to this antenna. i did try elevating the wire to about 1 mtr and the results certainly degraded. I noticed this afternoon that more than 50% of the length is buried under the grass and it is working extremely well.......... The trick is to try and NOT pickup any noise component. The signal takse care of itself and can be enhanced with a preamp (experimenting with one as we speak) Cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly I’d be very interested to see the preamp, will you have some kind of tuned circuit before the preamp, acting as a preselector? You’ve got me thinking now…
Hi Roly, I have a Colorbond steel fence on three sides of my property. The DX Commander works reasonably well at 2m from fence. Would you recommend putting the wire loop 30cm above the fence or run it inside the fence 30cm off the ground?
Yes, one end of the loop comes from the driven plate of the DXCommander base and the other end of the loop goes to the ground (radial) plate. I don't have any elements on the DXCommander at the moment so was just using the base components as a convenient way to connect a PL259 into the system....... cheers
Hi Roly, I have been thinking about putting a loop around my place, should end up with about 300 feet or so, but as I have a 6 foot wooden fence around the place, with a chain link fence in places, my thinking was to run the loop along the top of the fence. My plot is roughly triangular, in an urban environment, a few hundred feet higher than most of the town, atop what is more or less a ridge line. There is no local industry, but there is quite a lot of housing,, not densely packed but enough to cause a fair bit of noise. Basically the ground conditions are not ideal with a thin, about 18 inches of top soil over the local Cotswold stone. Not sure it makes a difference, but it does drain very well. Would appreciate your thoughts. 73 Jim M7BXT
Good video Roly. I have similar results from a homebrew K9AY loop on 160,80 & 40M noise floor drops to -140dbm! But I live in a small village with solar panels on neighbouring properties so problem at the moment not so drastic as yours.
Let's hope it stays that way Dave. Mind you, 80mtrs has always been my favourite band so i am quite used to scrubbing in the noise trying to pick out DX...... cheers
Thanks for the inspiration, Roly. I am in a noisy urban environment, too, so I will give the loop a try. I can make quite a long one as I have a long 10 metre wide Greenway behind me. I suppose you are using the radials to ground the coax braid? 73, VE7AWV.
Great video. I am curious to know, however, could you hook that loop wire up to an SWR and get a reading? If I understand this correctly, it is essentially a ground antenna, so it should have an SWR. If we can read the SWR, then surely it can be fine-tuned even further.
That is one way to do it i guess Jeramie, however this antenna is designed for Receive only. The better way to see what is going on is to use an antenna analyser. This will then tell you the characteristic impedance of the antenna and so give you clue as to what ratio balun to use to match your receiver input. cheers
I miss the large tower i used to have but that is simply not possible on my suburban lot......so just have to try and find other ways around the problem..... Cheers
Yes, the preamps in most modern rigs seem to be more than adequate. The danger with using a high gain low noise amp is front end overload particularly with SDR type radios....cheers
Great video, I have several receive ant's..... amplified 3' loop. random wire, ewe, also a timewave phaser....... sometimes good , sometimes not so good. The LOG with a 9:1 xformer (15' square) is defiantly the quietest but the sig is so low it is a struggle to hear. I'll give your Lot loop a try......... my fear is it will amplify the noise mor than the sig........ we'll see..... Thanks
Yes, for listen only. It could be made for transmit but the components would have to be "beefed up" to cope. Primarily for listen though simply to beat the noise as much as possible.
Be interested in how long the wire is and the length of your radials. I’ve a 49:1 end fed and to get on 80m it’s 40m of wire which I was struggling to put up. I didn’t consider running it around the perimeter. May give it a go.
You only need 20m of wire for 80m, the other half (the earthy side) can just be sloped down to fence height in any old fashion or thrown under the house etc
this was really good Roly. Never ever considered those electric fence stand-offs. Perfect. I have enough space here for approximately a 100m loop. That would probably help me with low band dxing. I have an inverted L on 160m that cracks out, but is noisy of course. This would likely be the solution. I also have horrendous powerline noise, so this may be of assistance there too. 73, Aaron VK2ON
Hi Roley im Rod VK4FR and weve never worked that im aware of. im 75 and stopped log keeping immediately it became law.. Sir i love your inastruction videos. i also have horrendous S/N and im goint to try your method.i also only have a suburban lot but ill duplicate as best as i can,my driveway also is an issue i thought was a no no burying antennas [rx]. but TY Roley for giving this greyhaired ham a real chance to get my station better.. gud dx Sir.god bless and gud health t u n urs 73 kn
Inspirational video Rolly. I now have a reason to build a decorative fence around the front of my yard and the rest is easier. How do you terminate the downstream end of the wire? I’m very close to writing my exam (just a matter of scheduling during COVID) and with a little luck will be getting a DX Commander in June so will be looking at doing this in the very near future. Cheers from Moose Jaw. Tim
There is no termination of the wire downstream as you would do with a beverage antenna for example. It is a continuous loop with one end of the loop to the centre conductor of the feed line and the other end of the loop to the braid of the feed line. I just used the base hardware of a DXCommander for convenience.... cheers
Morning Roly, apologies, I'm just catching up on important videos I've saved. I'm in a similar situation to you and will probably have a similar amount of noise when I get on HF. Is the loop continuous from centre and back around to the shield? I'll give something like this a go, but my property perimeter isn't nearly as big as yours.
Interesting Roly. I experimented with a loop round my Garden, must have been around 120 or more yards ish, around 1 foot off the ground. However I used some electric fence wire I had hanging around and a 1 to 1 balun to connect them to coax. My results were very poor, of course it could have been the balun or the wire was not suitable. The electric fence wire I think is steel wire woven into some sort of plastic string. I do have a part roll of DX10 that I might try out with though looking at your results. I have a 7300 with the RX ant mod on it btw.
@@ZL1BQDRoly I would imagine it might be quite easy to home brew, after all the one I bought is only a couple of phono plugs, some coax and connectors and a small plate.
So if I'm understanding this solution, the loop runs from the driven plate of the DX Commander around your property and terminates at the DXC ground plate. Does the loop affect the Tx of the DXC? Thanks for the video Roly. Always enjoyable and informative. BTW did you ever try the 10 meter band, brass tubing half-wave dipole I sent you a while back? If so, was it okay or rubbish in your opinion?
Martin, I am only using the DXCommander driven plate and radila plate as a convenient way to couple a pl259 into the loop. I have NO elements on the DXCommander at the moment and not using it for transmit. When i reassemble the DXcommander then i will have to look for another coupling solution. The 10mtr Half wave dipole sections work very well, but you sure have to be very careful not to bend the smaller sections for sure. I used it last weekend on a SOTA outing actually and made several contest with it.... Cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly Good to hear it worked for you. You're right about the fragility of the thinest elements. I built one for 6 meters and the largest element is 1/4 inch. The good thing is that it is light as a feather. I was thinking about building 2 more and putting all three together to make a yagi type array. I installed a Husqvarna Automower for my lawn care a few years ago. It requires a continuous boundary wire that is approximately 250 meter in length. The wire is staked to the ground and not buried like an electric dog fence wire. I'm going to see what happens if I connect my radio to it. I'll let you know. Cheers
Noise has been a problem for me for years. I've been able, with great difficulty, to solve them all, except my current issue on VHF. It has me utterly stumped. 🤔
It sure does take a lot of perseverance to track down some of these noise sources for sure.... I am rarely on VHF/UHF so any noise up there does not bother me. I have enough to contend with at HF !!...... cheers
Hi Roly, I am trying to wrap my brain around this. The addition of a ground loop increases the signal to noise ratio because loops are inherently quieter, but if you key down it will transmit using the 40M element of the DX Commander? Are the effects similar with the other bands? Or is your fenceline a harmonic of 40M?
No no Ed. I am just using the DXCommander hardware as a convenient way to connect a PL259 to the loop. There are NO elements on the pole at all. I am not using the DXC for transmit at the moment. Just a quick and dirty way to connect a coax to the loop.....cheers
Very nice video Roly. Great job on reducing your noise floor. I will live semi rural on a bit more than an acre soon and all neighbours have an acre too so I think I will be very lucky I guess. Keep up the good work mate. 73 from across the ditch. Kevin, VK4KK
You make me rather envious Keith. That used to be my circumstances years ago, but now we are locked into suburbia. My only other recourse is to set up a remote somewhere in the country....cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly Fair enough Roly. I am sure though that you have other advantages where you live such as proximity to shops etc. We need to drive at least 20 min to get to a decent grocery store. Everything in life is a trade off :-) Remote sounds good to me. I think you are in the process of looking into that already if I remember your chat with Callum correctly.
I suppose that this loop antenna is for receive only, right? Well, since it is impossible to give it a try in my property, ( I live in a multi floor building), I can though install it on the roof top. Is it a possible solution to reduce the noise? The roof top is almost 10 m above ground.
My gut feeling is that it would not work on top of a roof of a multi floor building. It has to be very low to the ground so that noise shoots over the top of it so to speak.... BUT, give it a go, maybe it will work? ....cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly Thanks for the reply. It's rather difficult to install it, especially right next to the metallic fence all around the terrace. Anyway, thanks for the info and the help. 73 de SV1SLB
If you have roof top access for antenna work, why not put up your loop but instead of laying it on the surface of the roof raise it above the roof just as much as you can
Hi Roly, did you do a follow up to this? If you did I missed it. Was going to try it out myself but in hospital at the moment for open heart surgery. I was wondering also if different size loops could be connected to one transformer to make it multi band or did your very big, close to the ground loop give you broadband recieve ?
Ok, thanks, waiting to see if I get the chest chop today so be a few months before I am messing with antennas again. Looking forward to your conclusions
I put a galvanised wire, for electic fences, around my attic. Unfortunately, it made my noise floor higher. It come from the back of my SDR with the device grounded to the ground lead in the AC outlet. The results disappointed me for noise. The signal levels went way up. But, the noise levels also went up proportionally. I am enjoying a lot more signal, but a lot more noise. As for transmit, I can only transmit on license free bands. I am not an amateur radio operator.
Your attic may have a LOT of metal causing you problems, like your rain gutters and any chunks of metal sheeting around roof valleys, chimneys, plus all the little metal plates in the roof framework or your air ductwork ETC. Those all become like extra random antenna elements! Why outside along the wooden fence like in the video works better.
Yes. One end of the loop goes to the driven plate the other to the ground plate. Remember this is a RECEIVE loop only, I am not using it for transmit......cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly I was trying to figure it out by looking at the video several times but I did not get it so you have two plates on it? I thought you come out of the grounding plate go around the property and return back to the ground plate.
I am using the drive plate just as a convenient way to connect the centre conductor of the coax feed to the loop. I am not using the plates fro Transmit in this configuration,...cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly It is 60ft (15ft a side) in a square fed in a corner with rg-6. I followed the design off KK5JY’s page. Very interesting read and design. It’s 60ft so I get 20m coverage.
Great, thanks for the info. Yes KK5JY has an intersting page for sure. It does seem that "one size does not fit all" though and each install really needs a little fine tuning.... cheers
Nice one Roly, although I was jealous of your starting position noise floor! You can easily flip the radiating plate connection on the DXC over to the lower ground radial plate, thereby adding one large loop-radial to the setup when in use as a vertical 😀
I'm a new Ham. How do you connect a loop antenna to the coax, do both ends connect to the inner coax conductor, or one to the inner and one to the outer conductor? And is a balun used? Thanks, and great video.
Look up "Loop On Ground" AKA LOG antennas which is basically what this is. As far as I know, only one end connects to the center conductor through a torroidal transformer, the braid is your ground which connects to a counterpoise wire from the toroid. And yes you'll want a balun choke near the transformer and one at the shack to prevent picking up stray RF on your feed line going into the antenna AND the radio.
@@macgyver5108 Thanks for the reply. I've got a 128 ft. end fed antenna and thinking about extending it into a loop antenna. Want to make sure I do it right.
@@Znobyrd I looked it up and a loop on ground uses a 4:1 balun/transformer and looks like both ends of the loop hook to that. You'll still want torroid chokes on both ends of the feed line for stray RF.
That must have a great moment when you heard the signal on the loop. I have experimented with a RX only loop on the ground made by good friend Tom G2NV. I did get a significant drop in noise floor with low but readable signals. It comprises 20m of insulated wire in square loop on the floor fed by coax through a 12:1 binocular style ferrite.
Tried this at my QTH. It reduced the noise but also removed the wanted signals. S9 became S7. Well I could hear and work them with or without noise. The stations replying to my CQ that are sitting on the edge of the noise are taken away also. SN ratio is all good but not much use if the wanted signal is also taken away.
Hello Roly nice to see the movies you had make very interesting I am not a ham station I only listening to them
Greetings from the Netherlands and maybe I hear you someday PA0021SWL
If you use that wire as a Beverage receive antenna and add a phase system, you will be able to knock out just about all noise.
Adding to your experiment Roly I often wondered why you give me a readability 5 in your RST reports to me from my summit when I sometimes give you R 3 in my RST report in return. I run 8 Watts on summits and assume you run 100 Watts from home. That RX antenna is a great idea. Regards Ian vk5cz ..
Normally running closer to 50 watts but into a pair of phased verticals pointing your way on 40mtrs. Great for VK SOTA and Parks... cheers
Wow great result, inspires me to give it a go....
Go for it! And let's know how you get on.
So one end connects to driven or centre of the coax and the other end comes back to the driven pin also with radials on the shield or the other end comes back to the shield with the radials?
Some people have been having success using a loop like this as the aux antenna for vk5 or similar noise cancellers.
Thank-you Roly. I really appreciate your insights and advice. Great work.
My pleasure!
What do you do when your noise level is over S-9
Great to see more videos like this; helping out the urban and suburban DXers like us.
I use a KK5JY Loop on Ground RX antenna. I tried to post youtube links to the build and the results here, but the comment appears to have been blocked.
Thanks for posting this video, Roly...great stuff! 73! de WX0V
Sounds great! I will check to see why comments/links seem to be blocked...they shouldn't be....cheers
Hey Roly....... I have to figure out a way to get the larger loop configured. ( I have obstacles to contend with....lol..... Did something interesting. 150' of RG6U coax on the ground with the shield and the center conductor soldered together..... WOW factor..... went from S9 noise floor to S3 on 40M. S/N ratio is fantastic....... picking CW right out of the floor...... can't even see the signal on the panadapter from the off center fed. works decent on 20.... but really don't need it there.... my Hex is pretty quite........ I'm looking forward to try it tonight on 80 and 160
Now that is interesting. So basically all you have done is increased the conductor surface area at the same height above ground...... must have a look at that....cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly Yes......weird.... laying on the ground
What about a DSP based Adaptive Noise Filter but you need a Noise antenna but can only be used on RX not TX or you will let the magic smoak out.
I have never used one but worth investigating.
I have no trouble in letting the smoke soak out, it's getting it back in again that is the challenge.....cheers
Thanks a lot. Also, I noticed that the RFG was on, you may want to take a look at the gain settings after switching antennas, thanks again.
Great observation John, thank you. I certainly will have a look at that again...cheers
Nice work Roly... it sure makes a big difference.
I feel sorry for you urban hams with all the noise ....I live way out in the country with no neighbors within a 6 mile radius.... it's quiet out here.
Pfft ... don't wanna know..... 😜 cheers
Receive loop doesn''t need to be above ground. I'm running websdr (can be found on PA3FWM websdr site - search for so8oo websdr) using loop on ground antenna. There are ofcourse better antennas, but considerig used space it is a great performer. I make automated FT8 reporting to pskreporter - search there for SN0E station. There are spots from all over world. My antenna is lying on the ground, it is rectangle (6 m x 6 m) fed in the corner. Proper feedline decoupling is a must!
Thanks for sharing....cheers
I use a MFJ 1026 and rx antenna that can receive the local noise as good or better than my main HF tx vertical, using the mfj 1026, I can phase out the local noise no problem...Works for me de Ei2iP..
Thanks Robbie. Is that local noises that can be individually singled out, say a local plasma TV or does it deal to the total noise floor?
Whatever works is always good news of course... Cheers
how do you connect this to the radio? Is it just one end to the centre of the antenna input on the radio and the other end to the earth side? Or is a balun or something needed in between?
Yes i do have a small matching balun to connect the loop to the coax... cheers
WOW... that 's amazing...I am an SWLer in Queensland Australia and I would sure like to try that
You should!
Omg a full wave loop at 30’ high fed with balanced open space Feeder and you ll be S9+10 into the states can’t wait Roly
That's a fiine dream to have Kevin...cheers
Is it noise from the Power Substation or what.
I recall using a loop antenna on 80m late last century. It had many poles holding it up and was anything from fence height to 11m high in places, but was quiet and worked brilliantly from VK4 into VK6. Only thing I never figured out how to do was automatic switching from TX to RX at 400w (or 1.5kw for those that can use it). Thought about automotive relays but wasn't sure if they were OK at HF. Cheers Adam VK4IM
Ahh switching is always a problem in the traditional sense.
Many of the modern rigs have a seperate Rx input which is automatically switched on Tx. That feature is what i am using.....cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly Hi Roly I Looks like you were using an IC-7300 in the video. I'm guessing your using the INRAD RX7300 reciever mod or similar?
@@VK4IM 👍 cheers
Would that loop just be for receiving or could you transmit through it as well?
For Receive only Sean. It would only be an earth warmer on Transmit I would say...... cheers
There is NO way I could live in a congested place like that. I have been in the country too long.
I only dream of the country location i used to have now....... cheers
Sorry for misspelling your name Roly, the old grey matter is pretty full of stuff I need to pass the exam.
That's fine Tim, my parents were too poor to afford two "l's" in my name, hence Roly.
(Actually my name is Roland but my wife started calling me Roly much to the displeasure of my dear Mother.......) cheers
Good video. Many thanks
Glad you enjoyed it...cheers
HIII ROLY GREAT INFO ,,, I HAVE ONE QUESTION , WILL ACTIVE NOISE CANCELLING HEAD PHONE DO JOB HF RADIO NOISE SUPRESSION AND ALSO Ground Loop Noise Isolator for Car Audio/Home Stereo System with 3.5mm Audio Cable WILL WORK OF REDUCING HF NOISE , KINDLY COMMENT ON IT
This video is about RF noise not noise induced into audio systems or physical noise. Your suggestions won't help much with atmospheric RF noise, cheers
Roly TERRIFIC VIDEO!!! I’d love to use it to help others. I’ll credit your channel and put a link to it in the description section. We’ll laid out and relaxed. Keep up the great work!
Cheers, you are most welcome.
very nicely done!
Thank you.....more to come....cheers
Nice work again!
Thanks Tim... Cheers
Hi Roly, reading the comments, I'm a little confused. Is the loop you've made a receive antenna, or a loop of wire connected to ground (the plate on the DX commander that connects to the ground radials) to try and absorb interference ?
73, VK3LSR
The loop is a Receiver Antenna. I am just using the base of the DXC as a convenenient means of connecting a PL259....cheers
Looking forward to this series, I have ordered my DX wire and will be doing the same around my yard. Looking forward to the next video.
Give it a go and please report back here and let us know what results you get. I sure would be interested in knowing... cheers
Roly
Great experiment
Leaving hope for those of us with QRM
How do you use this in practice
Switching without overloading the front end
WA0EXO
I have a remotely activated coax relay that switches out the RX loop and grounds it when I am on Transmit.....cheers
really interesting Roly I have a W6IUV preamp to build and always thought about putting it on a loop (like a wellbrook) but this looks interesting my only problem is there's a whole lot of concrete where I'd like to return to the shack so I''d have to come up to about 7 or 8 feet then it starts to loose some of the benfits either that or I bury it and return it back along the same route for about 15 feet making a sort of ladder line ... I think this is a 3 mug of coffee problem 🤣
Maybe even a 4 cuppa...... Well the old adage of "suck it and see" comes to mind.....
Please let us know how you get on with the preamp. I have one here which is very suitable, however the concern i have is front end overload to the Receiver.
The IC-7300 has plenty of "preamp" as it is so an additional 30dB up front maybe a little much.......cheers
Thanks much! Currently fighting noise while listening to the aircraft NDB beacon band, below the AM broadcast band and your video gives me hope! 60 years licensed & I’m back to mainly SWLing!
Best wishes from the north of Michigan, where it’s currently minus 22 degrees C !
Dennis W8MI PS our daughter recently did her Student Teaching in Howick, Cockle Bay, not far from family friend, the late Brian Egan, ZL1LE
HI Dennis
Cockle Bay is only about 5Kms away from my QTH, know it well
Knew Brian very well also, we were often sparing partners chasing some elusive DX......cheers
Good job Roly but one thing is missing here how to coneect the wire to my antenna system, there is no drawing to show I need more in details please. Thanks A92FF
Video to come shortly... please check your gmail .....cheers
Roly,
I'm considering doing a LOG antenna in my back yard. The garden is about 70 feet wide by about 60 feet deep. There is a 6 foot tall wooden fence along the 70 foot length and along the two 60 foot sides there is an aluminum fence. Do you think that putting the wire at the base of the two aluminum fences will significantly negatively impact the loop? I know that I can just throw some wire out there and try it, but I don't have 260 feet of wire just laying around at the moment, nor materials to make the 9:1 balun (?). Also, given that my lot is largely North/South (the 70 foot back fence is maybe rotated 4 degrees anti-clockwise, I would assume that the primary lobes will be at about 41 degrees and 221 degrees, which largely puts most of the signal in unusable directions.
Interesting setup. The aluminium fence could be a negative factor, i am not sure. The only real way to find out is to "give it a go"..👍......cheers
HAM RADIO - Eliminate the NOISE !! ❤️
Met pagi sobat Ytb smeoga sukses selalu 😊😊✅✅❤️🙏
terima kasih atas balasan yang bagus, cheers
Why is your loop 30cm above the ground, rather than on the ground? I was told to peg mine to the ground.
Just a practical consideration of being able to trim the garden without cutting or pulling out the wire. Actually, more than 50% of the wire is buried under leaf mould now anyway ...... cheers
hi roly. hpe ur well. I wonder if you found any directivity , depending where you place the feed point, and I wonder, if you took away the grounding side, whether it made any noticeable difference . 73 brian zl3xdj.
Hi Brian
Thanks for the input, these are all configurations i will be trying over the next little while. So stay tuned as they say and we will see what happens....cheers
Roly, nice video, how did you get a wire under the driveway.?
I used a garden hose with running water. It is fairly sandy so i was able to "pus" a hole through quite easily. That method would not work in rocky or heavy clay soils though.
Cheers
thank you for this video, interesting and inspiring idea! ... vy73 from Hamburg/Germany, Dietmar, DL4HAO :)
Give it a go and let's know how you get on. Post your results back here, i would love to see your results... cheers
Fantastic video mate. thanks
Glad you enjoyed it...cheers
Great video thanks for all the good info.
You are most welcome...more to come
Great instructional video. I know someone who has done this successfully for NVIS so limited range, what range are you getting? Is SSB any better?
I am using this antenna solely for Receive. On Receive it performs well on SSB and CW....cheers
Hi Roly, that is a fascinating demonstration/experiment, some time ago I ran a very low wire (not a loop) close to the ground and I also found an improved S/N, it was fascinating to use it to feed the sub-receiver and listen in "stereo". In common with you there were a few places that have stopped me making a full loop, it never occurred to me to go underground for those sections. I shall have to investigate, as for the apparent insensitivity it may be interesting to see what passive impedance matching can achieve, but I know you are continuing your work. 73
Agreed, a passive impedance match is next on the block. Goodness knows what it is at the moment but a proper 1:1 match will at least achieve max energy transfer in the system. Cheers
TY Roly..@@ZL1BQDRoly
Hi Roly, interesting idea, I will definitely try it. In the spirit of a scientific experiment, do you have a reference to the theory behind this antenna, how it works, and why it works, and what you might vary to see how the results change? For example if you elevated it would that help or make things worse? Very interesting result…. 73, VK4QP
I am trying to get back to this antenna.
i did try elevating the wire to about 1 mtr and the results certainly degraded.
I noticed this afternoon that more than 50% of the length is buried under the grass and it is working extremely well..........
The trick is to try and NOT pickup any noise component. The signal takse care of itself and can be enhanced with a preamp (experimenting with one as we speak)
Cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly I’d be very interested to see the preamp, will you have some kind of tuned circuit before the preamp, acting as a preselector? You’ve got me thinking now…
Hi Roly, I have a Colorbond steel fence on three sides of my property. The DX Commander works reasonably well at 2m from fence. Would you recommend putting the wire loop 30cm above the fence or run it inside the fence 30cm off the ground?
Probably inside the fence off the ground.....but suck and see i guess.....cheers
Very good Roly, nice solution, look forward to the preamp`d rx, all the best to you & thank you for taking the time to publish the videos.
Cheers, hopefully this coming week sometime.....
That makes a big difference to getting that QRP station.
Is that a wire coming off the ground plane plate of the DX Commander Roly?
Yes, one end of the loop comes from the driven plate of the DXCommander base and the other end of the loop goes to the ground (radial) plate.
I don't have any elements on the DXCommander at the moment so was just using the base components as a convenient way to connect a PL259 into the system....... cheers
Hi Roly, I have been thinking about putting a loop around my place, should end up with about 300 feet or so, but as I have a 6 foot wooden fence around the place, with a chain link fence in places, my thinking was to run the loop along the top of the fence. My plot is roughly triangular, in an urban environment, a few hundred feet higher than most of the town, atop what is more or less a ridge line. There is no local industry, but there is quite a lot of housing,, not densely packed but enough to cause a fair bit of noise. Basically the ground conditions are not ideal with a thin, about 18 inches of top soil over the local Cotswold stone. Not sure it makes a difference, but it does drain very well. Would appreciate your thoughts. 73 Jim M7BXT
Try it along the top of the fence James buy i think close to the ground will work better for you....cheers
Good video Roly. I have similar results from a homebrew K9AY loop on 160,80 & 40M noise floor drops to -140dbm! But I live in a small village with solar panels on neighbouring properties so problem at the moment not so drastic as yours.
Let's hope it stays that way Dave.
Mind you, 80mtrs has always been my favourite band so i am quite used to scrubbing in the noise trying to pick out DX...... cheers
Thanks for the inspiration, Roly. I am in a noisy urban environment, too, so I will give the loop a try. I can make quite a long one as I have a long 10 metre wide Greenway behind me. I suppose you are using the radials to ground the coax braid? 73, VE7AWV.
Yes the coax braid is connected into quite an extensive radial field... cheers
Great video. I am curious to know, however, could you hook that loop wire up to an SWR and get a reading? If I understand this correctly, it is essentially a ground antenna, so it should have an SWR. If we can read the SWR, then surely it can be fine-tuned even further.
That is one way to do it i guess Jeramie, however this antenna is designed for Receive only. The better way to see what is going on is to use an antenna analyser. This will then tell you the characteristic impedance of the antenna and so give you clue as to what ratio balun to use to match your receiver input. cheers
Great upload Roly, great results.
Thanks Mike 👍.... Next will be a video with a low noise amp in line....cheers
A good lesson learnt, now really want to give this a go.
Please do Keith and then post YOUR results here. I would love to see what others find......cheers
One of the best noise reducer / eraser is implemented in the Malachit DSP 2 receiver. The filter setup of this Russian device is very efficient .
I don't know this piece of equipment, i will have to do some research on it ....cheers
DB gain set to zero? Still looked very noisy to me to be fair
It is the signal to noise that is the important factor.
Nice even to hear a signal weak over not at all is obviously a massive improvement...bin those 100 foot towers :D
I miss the large tower i used to have but that is simply not possible on my suburban lot......so just have to try and find other ways around the problem..... Cheers
Excellent job. I’ve done a loop on the ground vy simple and not so big. Often using the preamp of the rig it’s enough.
Yes, the preamps in most modern rigs seem to be more than adequate.
The danger with using a high gain low noise amp is front end overload particularly with SDR type radios....cheers
Great video, I have several receive ant's..... amplified 3' loop. random wire, ewe, also a timewave phaser....... sometimes good , sometimes not so good. The LOG with a 9:1 xformer (15' square) is defiantly the quietest but the sig is so low it is a struggle to hear. I'll give your Lot loop a try......... my fear is it will amplify the noise mor than the sig........ we'll see..... Thanks
I am ken to see your results....cheers
Add a preamp?
Hi Roly,
That is quite an improvement. How much wire do you have strung around your property? You and Gail stay safe. 73 WJ3U
I will measure it out for you tomorrow Don,...cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly Educated guess good enough, Roly. No need to go and measure it.
Is this a listen only loop or is it tuned to transmit on?
Yes, for listen only. It could be made for transmit but the components would have to be "beefed up" to cope. Primarily for listen though simply to beat the noise as much as possible.
Great video Roly, going to try this myself, thanks for sharing, cheers 🥂, !
Tremendous, let's know how you get on... cheers
Be interested in how long the wire is and the length of your radials. I’ve a 49:1 end fed and to get on 80m it’s 40m of wire which I was struggling to put up. I didn’t consider running it around the perimeter. May give it a go.
Give it a go James and let's know how you get on....cheers
You only need 20m of wire for 80m, the other half (the earthy side) can just be sloped down to fence height in any old fashion or thrown under the house etc
this was really good Roly. Never ever considered those electric fence stand-offs. Perfect. I have enough space here for approximately a 100m loop. That would probably help me with low band dxing. I have an inverted L on 160m that cracks out, but is noisy of course. This would likely be the solution. I also have horrendous powerline noise, so this may be of assistance there too. 73, Aaron VK2ON
Glad you found them useful. I have used these standoff on numerous occasions with great success. Cheers
I'm going to screw the stand offs into colourbond Roly. What do you think. Will such close proximity to a another conductor mess things up?
I would be a little cautious, the colour bond could act as a shield......
give it a go and let's know :)
cheers
Hi Roley im Rod VK4FR and weve never worked that im aware of. im 75 and stopped log keeping immediately it became law.. Sir i love your inastruction videos. i also have horrendous S/N and im goint to try your method.i also only have a suburban lot but ill duplicate as best as i can,my driveway also is an issue i thought was a no no burying antennas [rx]. but TY Roley for giving this greyhaired ham a real chance to get my station better.. gud dx Sir.god bless and gud health t u n urs 73 kn
Inspirational video Rolly. I now have a reason to build a decorative fence around the front of my yard and the rest is easier. How do you terminate the downstream end of the wire? I’m very close to writing my exam (just a matter of scheduling during COVID) and with a little luck will be getting a DX Commander in June so will be looking at doing this in the very near future. Cheers from Moose Jaw. Tim
There is no termination of the wire downstream as you would do with a beverage antenna for example. It is a continuous loop with one end of the loop to the centre conductor of the feed line and the other end of the loop to the braid of the feed line.
I just used the base hardware of a DXCommander for convenience.... cheers
Ok that makes sense. Thanks for the quick response and forgiveness for misspelling your name. Cheers Roly.
Tim
Morning Roly, apologies, I'm just catching up on important videos I've saved. I'm in a similar situation to you and will probably have a similar amount of noise when I get on HF. Is the loop continuous from centre and back around to the shield? I'll give something like this a go, but my property perimeter isn't nearly as big as yours.
Give it a go Richard, i thunk you will be pleasantly surprised.... cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly is it a complete loop, from coax centre, all the way round and directly back to the outer?
@@richardtwyning Yes Richard. Currently experimenting with various Balun feeds... cheers
Interesting Roly. I experimented with a loop round my Garden, must have been around 120 or more yards ish, around 1 foot off the ground. However I used some electric fence wire I had hanging around and a 1 to 1 balun to connect them to coax. My results were very poor, of course it could have been the balun or the wire was not suitable. The electric fence wire I think is steel wire woven into some sort of plastic string. I do have a part roll of DX10 that I might try out with though looking at your results. I have a 7300 with the RX ant mod on it btw.
I was using a7300 for this experiment. The RX Ant mod looks to be very simple and would be ideal for this sort of application.... Cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly I would imagine it might be quite easy to home brew, after all the one I bought is only a couple of phono plugs, some coax and connectors and a small plate.
So if I'm understanding this solution, the loop runs from the driven plate of the DX Commander around your property and terminates at the DXC ground plate. Does the loop affect the Tx of the DXC? Thanks for the video Roly. Always enjoyable and informative. BTW did you ever try the 10 meter band, brass tubing half-wave dipole I sent you a while back? If so, was it okay or rubbish in your opinion?
Martin, I am only using the DXCommander driven plate and radila plate as a convenient way to couple a pl259 into the loop. I have NO elements on the DXCommander at the moment and not using it for transmit. When i reassemble the DXcommander then i will have to look for another coupling solution.
The 10mtr Half wave dipole sections work very well, but you sure have to be very careful not to bend the smaller sections for sure.
I used it last weekend on a SOTA outing actually and made several contest with it.... Cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly Good to hear it worked for you. You're right about the fragility of the thinest elements. I built one for 6 meters and the largest element is 1/4 inch. The good thing is that it is light as a feather. I was thinking about building 2 more and putting all three together to make a yagi type array.
I installed a Husqvarna Automower for my lawn care a few years ago. It requires a continuous boundary wire that is approximately 250 meter in length. The wire is staked to the ground and not buried like an electric dog fence wire. I'm going to see what happens if I connect my radio to it. I'll let you know. Cheers
The old adage Martin, "Give it a go...." Cheers
Noise has been a problem for me for years. I've been able, with great difficulty, to solve them all, except my current issue on VHF. It has me utterly stumped. 🤔
It sure does take a lot of perseverance to track down some of these noise sources for sure....
I am rarely on VHF/UHF so any noise up there does not bother me.
I have enough to contend with at HF !!...... cheers
DMR solves the noise problem on VHF
@@mhpreach Helpful, thanks
Hi Roly, I am trying to wrap my brain around this. The addition of a ground loop increases the signal to noise ratio because loops are inherently quieter, but if you key down it will transmit using the 40M element of the DX Commander? Are the effects similar with the other bands? Or is your fenceline a harmonic of 40M?
No no Ed. I am just using the DXCommander hardware as a convenient way to connect a PL259 to the loop. There are NO elements on the pole at all. I am not using the DXC for transmit at the moment. Just a quick and dirty way to connect a coax to the loop.....cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly Thanks Roly, now I can sleep without my mind running all night trying to figure it out...ha.. Cheers
@@problemwithauthority Cheers
Very nice video Roly. Great job on reducing your noise floor.
I will live semi rural on a bit more than an acre soon and all neighbours have an acre too so I think I will be very lucky I guess.
Keep up the good work mate.
73 from across the ditch.
Kevin, VK4KK
You make me rather envious Keith. That used to be my circumstances years ago, but now we are locked into suburbia. My only other recourse is to set up a remote somewhere in the country....cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly Fair enough Roly. I am sure though that you have other advantages where you live such as proximity to shops etc. We need to drive at least 20 min to get to a decent grocery store. Everything in life is a trade off :-)
Remote sounds good to me. I think you are in the process of looking into that already if I remember your chat with Callum correctly.
@@VK5KU You remember well Keith.
I suppose that this loop antenna is for receive only, right? Well, since it is impossible to give it a try in my property, ( I live in a multi floor building), I can though install it on the roof top. Is it a possible solution to reduce the noise? The roof top is almost 10 m above ground.
My gut feeling is that it would not work on top of a roof of a multi floor building. It has to be very low to the ground so that noise shoots over the top of it so to speak....
BUT, give it a go, maybe it will work? ....cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly Thanks for the reply. It's rather difficult to install it, especially right next to the metallic fence all around the terrace. Anyway, thanks for the info and the help. 73 de SV1SLB
If you have roof top access for antenna work, why not put up your loop but instead of laying it on the surface of the roof raise it above the roof just as much as you can
@@fredroessler I already have done that. In fact the loop is around 7 m above terrace level. Nevertheless the noise is still very much present.
Hi Roly, did you do a follow up to this? If you did I missed it. Was going to try it out myself but in hospital at the moment for open heart surgery. I was wondering also if different size loops could be connected to one transformer to make it multi band or did your very big, close to the ground loop give you broadband recieve ?
Hi Chris, still doing a lot of experiments. I will have another followup video coming out shortly.... cheers
Ok, thanks, waiting to see if I get the chest chop today so be a few months before I am messing with antennas again. Looking forward to your conclusions
OK Chris, all the very best....looking forward to a good report ...cheers
Hopefully be 5 and 9 + 40, blowing the windows out :-)
A great video, well done
Thank you... cheers
..how are you feeding this Roly?
Just straight feed with coax... A 9:1 balun would more than likely improve it more.... cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly Thanks! 73 de VE6PG/VE3IIM ..
I put a galvanised wire, for electic fences, around my attic. Unfortunately, it made my noise floor higher. It come from the back of my SDR with the device grounded to the ground lead in the AC outlet. The results disappointed me for noise. The signal levels went way up. But, the noise levels also went up proportionally. I am enjoying a lot more signal, but a lot more noise. As for transmit, I can only transmit on license free bands. I am not an amateur radio operator.
Your attic may have a LOT of metal causing you problems, like your rain gutters and any chunks of metal sheeting around roof valleys, chimneys, plus all the little metal plates in the roof framework or your air ductwork ETC. Those all become like extra random antenna elements! Why outside along the wooden fence like in the video works better.
Does the loop comes back to the ground plate of the DX commander?
Yes. One end of the loop goes to the driven plate the other to the ground plate.
Remember this is a RECEIVE loop only, I am not using it for transmit......cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly I was trying to figure it out by looking at the video several times but I did not get it so you have two plates on it? I thought you come out of the grounding plate go around the property and return back to the ground plate.
I am using the drive plate just as a convenient way to connect the centre conductor of the coax feed to the loop.
I am not using the plates fro Transmit in this configuration,...cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly Can you still transmit with it? Or may have to put a switch to disconnet?
Roly you just gave me an idea for my new QTH!
Here to please Wade 😊... Let's know how you get on....cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly no problem. Thinking long random dipole down my side fences. About 65m total. Like crab arms
"Give it a go" and let's know how you get on....cheers
Fantastic video Roly 👍
Thanks APE, more to come ....cheers
Good video! I went the Loop on ground route and it helped a lot.
Brilliant. It is not perfect but every little bit helps in a noisey environment.... how large is your loop ouy of interest? ..... cheers
@@ZL1BQDRoly It is 60ft (15ft a side) in a square fed in a corner with rg-6. I followed the design off KK5JY’s page. Very interesting read and design. It’s 60ft so I get 20m coverage.
Great, thanks for the info. Yes KK5JY has an intersting page for sure.
It does seem that "one size does not fit all" though and each install really needs a little fine tuning.... cheers
Thanks for the lesson learned. 😊
Good info. Mike from Minnesota.
Nice one Roly, although I was jealous of your starting position noise floor! You can easily flip the radiating plate connection on the DXC over to the lower ground radial plate, thereby adding one large loop-radial to the setup when in use as a vertical 😀
Yep thought of that... Cheers Ian
I will link your work on this in the description below.....
I'm a new Ham. How do you connect a loop antenna to the coax, do both ends connect to the inner coax conductor, or one to the inner and one to the outer conductor? And is a balun used? Thanks, and great video.
Look up "Loop On Ground" AKA LOG antennas which is basically what this is. As far as I know, only one end connects to the center conductor through a torroidal transformer, the braid is your ground which connects to a counterpoise wire from the toroid. And yes you'll want a balun choke near the transformer and one at the shack to prevent picking up stray RF on your feed line going into the antenna AND the radio.
@@macgyver5108 Thanks for the reply. I've got a 128 ft. end fed antenna and thinking about extending it into a loop antenna. Want to make sure I do it right.
@@Znobyrd I looked it up and a loop on ground uses a 4:1 balun/transformer and looks like both ends of the loop hook to that. You'll still want torroid chokes on both ends of the feed line for stray RF.
That must have a great moment when you heard the signal on the loop. I have experimented with a RX only loop on the ground made by good friend Tom G2NV. I did get a significant drop in noise floor with low but readable signals. It comprises 20m of insulated wire in square loop on the floor fed by coax through a 12:1 binocular style ferrite.
Thanks for the feed back, i will take a look at this system for sure... cheers
Tried this at my QTH. It reduced the noise but also removed the wanted signals. S9 became S7. Well I could hear and work them with or without noise. The stations replying to my CQ that are sitting on the edge of the noise are taken away also. SN ratio is all good but not much use if the wanted signal is also taken away.