Loop On The Ground Receiving Antenna - Cuts Out The RFI?
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- Today I am installing a LOG antenna from LMK Technical Solutions: www.lmkts.com/... I purchased this assembled kit after recommendations from @amateursandairwaves Are LOGs as good as they make them all say? Lets find out!
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That was ZS6CCY in South Africa, not ZL
ZS6CCY, Bill, is on 40 every evening. He works a lot of North American stations. Great signal here on the East coast and tries work everybody. You had really good copy, especially being on the West coast. His antenna does all the heavy lifting, quite an array.
One thought on cutting off the connector from a roll of coax. Unless I need every foot of cable, I always cut a minimum 3 foot piece of cable off if I need to cut off a prepared connector. That way I can get a decent length for a patch cord just by putting a connector on the other end. You can never have enough patch cables. :)
Good idea.
Yeah, I was cringing when I watched him snip off the connector. Great idea to cut off a minimum useful piece if necessary.
You smart
I would just drill a bigger hole in the wall. 😊
Great video, I built a LOG a few months ago and have very similar results. sometimes I can pull out weak signals a little better on the dipole but the listening experience is much more pleasant on the LOG.
A couple comments on the trenching. (BTDT) For an easier go:
Dig a trench slightly longer than the trenching pipe on the approach side . Use a chalk line or straight edge from the exit point across the walk and mark your line to dig the trench in line with the far side target. That guarantees you hit your target and makes it easier to jet because you are already on target and you dont have to bend the pvc to keep it from submarining.
Cut the PVC 24" longer than the crossing is wide. That leaves 12" on either side when you are done. That way you can just cut the tube off on either side of the walk to remove the ends and it becomes a conduit, protecting the wire from the gravel under the walk. Just shove the wire through the PVC instead of removing the PVC and using it like a pull cord.
Also the PVC may bind up during digging. Thats because the tube is wider than the jet. Dont panic. Just keep moving the tube forward and back as best you can and it will eventually release itself and let you continue.
Have fun!
Thanks for the mention @HamRadioCrashCourse. Im glad you like the LOG and it seems to be working well. Because it's much quieter than a traditional antenna you may find using the radio preamp helps uplift the SNR a little. - Matt (M0LMK/KI5GXV) LMKTS Owner.
I love your antennas/baluns too… have ordered a couple of them. Awesome product!
@@amateursandairwavesThanks! That is great to hear and very much appreciated. Keep your eyes on the website as I have some new products for 2024 coming up...
I built and tested a few LOG receive antennas whilst my Yaesu was in the shop, and was using the 7610. The main problem I had was, yes it dropped the noise floor down, but it dropped the signals down almost as far. It was my experience the ratio between the signal and noise improved around 3db on the lower bands using the log antenna. For me, and your mileage may vary, it just didn't make enough difference in performance, to keep the antenna. My FTDX10 doesn't have but one antenna port, so when I got it back from the shop, I just did away with the log antenna. It was a great experiment and glad I took the time to do it.
Awesome to see you bring more attention to these! I have the same one you tested in this video, and it works incredible with dealing with some RFI from neighbors who refused to help me negate it. Its amazing what 60 feet of wire on the ground can accomplish.
This is really cool. I've been reading about logs, but to see one in use is really helpful! Once we've moved from where we are currently and actually have a yard, using this with an sdr looks like a winner!
I got one of these loops. Installed it yesterday. In the testing phase. Working great on 40m in the evening. On 20m need more time to evaluate. 73
Currently watching, my favorite moment 4:05. Cat mittens appear at top of screen! Back to ham radio ... All done, great job, definitely a good consideration!
i tot it was black panther
That’s amazing what an antenna on the ground can receive. I used to use a 20 meter resonant dipole only 3 feet above the ground, and it did work.
You might try out a different stealth antenna project. Get some cheap after Christmas lights. Clip the leads from each bulb to minimize them from lighting up from the RF. Glue the bulbs in their sockets. Then use the Christmas light wire as an end fed antenna. It will look like Christmas lights that didn’t get taken down, and never light up. People will just assume that it’s Christmas lights, not an antenna!
An antenna disguised as x-mas lights, LOL! Great idea!!
Built a few of these. I absolutely love the things. Simply put, they just work for me. Experiment with wire length at your QTH to really dial it in for what you wanna hear
In Interior Alaska and I have a BOG (580 feet) but the receive antenna I'm most impressed with is my DIY ARRL 80m Skyloop. Set up at about 10 feet high (Just above the Moose antlers). Its simply one of he best. I will likely purchase of of the Loop-On-The-Ground to try.
Hey Josh, You go to all that trouble to lower your noise floor but you have noise probably coming from all the LED's you have running everywhere in your house and garden Christmas lights. Use your tiny SA to sweep your lights psu's etc. Cheap LED's are noisy and give out lots of RF.👍
they really work! also a non resonant ( to any bands you operate on) wire - slung low to the ground from a 4:1 UNUN also works well. one thing that makes any of these possible is I have a receive port on my rig, before I had that capability , I had to use a TX/RX switch box or remember to flip the VFO. I have a lot of QRN in the evenings on the low bands. a dedicated receive antenna is the bees knees ! - I love how the cat came over and checked everything out. - I imagine he said "meh.... carry on lad - nothing of interest for me here ! " Ha Ha ! fantastic topic, thanks!
ZS6CCY, Bill in SA. He's always loud.
And the LOOP wins again! Gotta love the reduced QRN. Good project Josh.
Good work Josh. We appreciate the hands-on demo on your install... including the good and the bad.👍🤠
I bought the same LoG from LMKS. I only Rx as I’ve not done the foundation licence yet but I’m having great fun experimenting with antennas and various software for the SDRPlay (SDRAngel using the FT8 plugin and map is brilliant!). I got best results laying out a perfect 25 foot square feeding off a corner, significantly better than the heavily modified MLA-30+ loop on 80, 40 and 20m bands (the loop is better at higher frequencies up to 50MHz). I really enjoy your videos and have learnt a lot, thank you. Regards from the UK, Kevin.
I like the hose under the paving slab trick and I like the late night working style.
that was Buffalo Bill in S Africa......recognize that voice anywhere.... everyone's friend and superb operator......if you can't hear him on 40 every night you can't hear anyone........73 Mike, K1FNX near Boston
Thank you for all the great information and videos that you have continuously created for us! Keep up the incredible work! 73
I built and installed a LOG about two years ago. It was quiet but my 40m skyloop was just as quiet (I live in a semi rural area). So that LOG has been adapted into my loop ground plane shack earth system and using that in combination with the skyloop, the noise level is now almost non-existent!
73 Ed DD5LP.
Can you explain the loop ground plane.
I'm tempted to do this and try it as a TX loop too off my tuner, I don't have good options on this property to hang an antenna. Last property I had a 660' square loop, worked amazingly
Hope you had a Merry Christmas And a Happy New Years From My Family To yours Josh @Ham Radio Crash Course
Merry Christmas and happy new year to you as well!
I setup a home-brew 60 ft. LOG last winter. It worked pretty well but didn't want it in the yard during mowing season. So far haven't got around to installing it yet this season. It worked pretty well but should have put it further from the house. I had more noise than I expected. Signals were lower than my vertical but good copy using the receiver preamp. Phil N3ZP
Always great content Josh! Love your ploy of using the Christmas season to crawl around and add an antenna. Maybe I can get away with a mast in my yard if I string lights on it and make it look like a giant Christmas tree. 😀
I've used a LOG antenna for several years now. I use it with my RSP DUO, it works well from 40 meters and below, I also use it in diversity mode along with a OCFD.
+1 for the black cat
I tried a log, and it was so quiet, i had a hard time hearing signals. I made my transformer, and ran 60' in a square configuration. Do they work, absolutely! Having the space to put one is surely necessary.
Just my thought as a landscaper, I would have installed the transformer in an irrigation valve box or one of the unique lighting “SHUB” boxes that way it would be easily accessible & easy to find.
Nice results Josh! I made a similar antenna with an binocular core for the transformer @ 75 ohms impedance, and used double shielded RG - 6. I positioned it in the only place I had room (under the mobile home) and it seemed to be a great coupler into all manner of noise occurring above in the home. I have abandoned it and opted for a broadband discone antenna that I use for my RSPdx across all bands. It limits my noise while still yielding usable signal strength. Tnx!
73 - KF6IF
I couldn't help but notice your saguaro cactus, with the Santa hat, in your yard. Do y'all live in the Sonoran desert. We (my wife and I) live outside of Three Points, AZ.
In getting back to your great presentations. I've learned a lot, watching your videos. Your a natural instructor. Keep up the good work.
Hey that's Bill from South Africa. I listen to a few times a week.
I'm going to give this loop on the ground a try. Tnx, 73s
I'm not using a LOG but a small RX loop - Mine is a Wellbrook that I've had for many years. I bought it primarily because the noise floor on 60m at my QTH has steadily increased over the years to a point now where it is about S5. It lives at the bottom of my garden on a lightweight rotator.
I use a resonant dipole for TX and the Wellbrook on a dedicated RX port of the radio. The RX signal strength is typically a few S-points down on the dipole but the difference in SNR is night and day.
I've just uploaded an A-B demo on my YT channel as an FYI.
Small RX loops aren't hugely expensive - the MLA30+ is about $50 and that design has had a lot of very favourable reviews; I guess the main requirement is that your transceiver has a dedicated RX antenna port.
If my transceiver doesn’t have a dedicated receiver antenna port which auto switch do you recommend?
It's nice to have a choice of several antennas, especially on receive. (The guy on the other end isn't going to be bothered by you local noise sources.)
If it had been me, I would have put the professionally installed connector outdoors. (Which also has the advantage of a nice warm (a consideration here in New Hampshire), well lit ham shack with a chair, table, and easy power for the soldering iron and heat gun.
Yep, I've been using a KD9SV BOG BALUN from DXE for my LOG. Only about 30ft of wire. Works great on 40 and 80. I've even accidentally loaded it up and used it on RTTY at 100W a time or two! 😲
This is interesting. I may look into it further.
Very Nice Work 👌 @Ham Radio Crash Course
Thank you!
@@HamRadioCrashCourse your very welcome Merry Christmas and Happy New Years from my family to yours Josh
This is the first video where even if the angle isnt the best, its shown me how to properly solder and wire up coax with a BNC or any other connector.
I had to penetrate an 8" concrete wall a few years ago. Having the hammer drill and bit made the wall chew out like butter. Worth the price of renting of buying the hammer drill even for one hole in masonry.
Heck yeah! Been there! And when pounding in ground rods, go demo hammer every time. 👍
I use the same LMK LoG and it has proven useful to cut down on the QRM I get on the hustler 6btv
Always heard about ground wave antennas , never tried one. May just have to try it.
Been running a LOG RX antenna for a few months. I have a DXE BOG and an LDG 4:1. Even though the LDG isn't designed for it, it works well. Dropped my S7 noise down to S2. I tried to convince Mike to try it but he was pretty resistant to try it.
Oh yeah, Mike should try this!
I always dril holes for coax at a slight angle dipping to the outside to stop water creeping along a straight piece of coax.
I finished watching your video today very helpful. Thank you. 73.
try putting it under ground ,15 cm, i did . Noise -145 dBm , signals -60 dBm, Just use it for listen only . Works perfect.
Very good video, thanks Josh. Merry belated Christmas and happy new Year. 73, N2SCD
Careful Josh, you are targeted with a dozen green & red lasers. Put the water jet down.
Another easy fix for weak signals is to use WebSDR as your receive antenna. Especially useful chasing grey line dx.
Hey Josh. Since you already have Milwaukee, get one of the cordless soldering irons.
I’ve been thinking about that. What’s the max temp? No replaceable tip worries me.
A dipole on the ground works also. And you can transmit on it also.
It’s amazing but you need to mess with the RF gain to get good results.right away I notice the noise was too loud which is an indication that your RF gain is all the way open. Try reducing your RF gain and adding some noise filters and you will get amazing results with it.
I did it’s part of the clips.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse it’s hard to tell on video because of the volume amplification.
The switch unit you showed at the end of the video is great for this LOG setup, but don't confuse it with the MFJ 1708B-SDR that allows for an SDR and a transceiver sharing one antenna. They look almost identical.
It might have been easiest to just flip the concrete paver over, or is it a solid concrete path? Cheers.
Are there any considerations needed for yards with in-ground invisible dog fences?
Ok on the rcv loop... ZS6CCY runs four-square vert arrays on 40 & 80.. Always a gud sig into N. AM.. Like many, I've wk'd him mobile. 73,n6spp-cm98
Remember you need to fill that void under the concrete with something when you're done or that sidewalk will crack and cave in. It's always better to put in an oversized conduit for multiple uses (one inch) then pump grout into the void. Never leave that void open because it will fill with water and frost heave your sidewalk in a year or two.
While a valid point in most of the US, not an issue for Josh. Nothing's freezing in Cerritos.
@@BenjaminHeyser he might not be in danger of freezing but undermining the soil under concrete is still a very valid concern everywhere so I should have been more general I guess. Houses and skyscrapers have been demolished by this, water is an amazing force and erosion happens incredibly fast.
I use 18-gauge speaker wire and an LDG 4:1 balun to make a square 'loop' around the perimeter of the back garden that's approx. 55ft x 32ft. Works pretty well with many HF bands. 10M is just noise for me though. If ever there's an antenna that works well as a DIY and is also easy to remove if required, it's a LoG imho. Rx only of course. Assuming it's electrically sound of course. Been enjoying your vids btw. Haven't actually said that yet. On the subject of a LoG though, what would be the effect of elevating it several feet off the ground, in my case weaving it through the chain-link fence we have on three sides? Is tx possible with such an arrangement?
Good video. Are you still using that chameleon receiving loop and how is it performing.
If I build this loop, would a Vertical antenna in the center affect it? Like a circle inside of square? The antenna being the circle the loop receive is the square.
When I ran my cable under the sidewalk, it took 2 weeks. Arizona has a lot of rocks.
Man that Christmas light projector was messing with me haha
Had the video playing while doing some other things and when I looked up all the red and green dots threw me off 🤣
I have known operators continue to use an antenna even when it's dropped to the ground due to a broken rope. Certainly not a good situation, but the noise floor was lower also, even if their antenna was then very poorly matched for transmitting.
I played around with a 1000' Log. Picked up an FT8 station on 160 meters about 8000 miles away.
It looks like you improved your SNR, because the noise on the LOG antenna is much lower. From what I could see in the video the signal peak didn't change much.
If nothing else, you justified my buying multiple tools that do the same thing.
Was there not an easier way to put the cable under the slabs
I've been running the LOG for a bit now -- very useful in my area -- cuts out a lot of the noise.
Have you found that wearing argyle socks improves overall DX?
I thought it was well done hearing ZL Station but if you listen closely is it a ZS station (South Africa ) anyway once again Josh nice video very entertaining and useful information
Even better! Much further from here.
@5:45 is that your Lachey, Nick?
I did a wall wart search today unplugged the ones i wasn't using and choked the ones i had to use, got rid of a ton of RFI
Nicely done!
What Icom are you using?
I'm trying to trade my best metal detector to get one.. Hopefully the 7300?
Josh is using an Icom 7610. A great radio and perfect for use with a dedicated RX antenna.
7300 doesn't have a receive antenna port, would have to add a external switch for that(DX Engineering makes one)
He’s using a 7610
I have not tried this antenna, but I am concerned about my lawn mower creating a mess. So that begs the question, can this antenna be buried slightly under the surface and if so, has anyone tried doing this and what were the results?
I wonder if this would work if put through my MFJ 1026 Noise canceling device. Hmmmm?
I wonder if it would work on a crystal radio on the AM radio band.
I think too weak
Noise isn't problem on crystal radio imho
In this vein, do you have thoughts on Raisa's xmit tests using on-the-ground antennas?
Very interesting, I've been thinking of replacing my MLA-30+ RX antenna with something else and this is really interesting (and cheap!). Does the wire need to be in a perfect "loop" shape, or can it be bent and conformed around some?
You can bend it around.
The LOG works best as a square with equal sides but in reality, any shape will work.
I have 90' LOG and it doesn't care much what shape I have it in, figure 8 was interesting.
Signal amplitude is a function of the area that the loop presents. The largest area that a wire can present is in the shape of a circle. The least area would be if your wire folded back on itself creating zero presented area. @@GoonyMclinux
How do like step ir ant? Been looking at a regular triband yagi.
Seems the old,
" Snake " antenna's were much more quiet.
You should look into them, and do a comparison !
Try it, you'll like it !
👍😉
How is a snake antenna differing from a LOG?
Good video, but, should try it against a very weak station. zs6ccy has always a booming signal
Josh, how long is that precut cable? and what gauge is that wire? looks like the sheathing is durable.
what’s the ruling on burying the loop, like ground plane radials?
I'm looking for an online test to upgrade to general.
good example for a multiple antenna radio.
What I really want to know: Is Cali traffic that bad? Cause you started in the morning, it seems, and after running to the big box store you get back after dark.
Nah. Not in my town. I have a family and others things I have to get done.
What's the best length? I just built a 9:1 balun and 18.5 meters of wire. Should I make it longer?
Long is still always better for lower bands.
Back on 40! Nice.
If I wanted to watch someone do a project and screw it up repeatedly, I'd just look in the mirror! 🙂
The Christmas lights give it a tech look.
How does the element or transformer not get caught up in a lawnmower?
Lawn stapples.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse Huh, I just thought those were there so it keeps it shape. Good to know, thanks!
The kit comes with four stakes. I added a ton of stapples to hold it down. The grass with over take the wire at some point.
Does this loop on the ground antenna have to be a perfect square? The area I have free is 12ft x 18ft. Thats 60ft total. Will that be ok do you think?
It does not have to be a perfect loop, a rectangle is fine.
Thinking of turning my old electric dog fence into a log. About 550 foot loop. Buried an inch or two under the lawn. Any thoughts?
Go for it! Worst case is you have to buy loop wire but I bet it is killer on 160-40m!
What is up with the moving dots all over the image in the night footage?
Scrubbed ahead. It looks like Christmas lights. That was super distracting. Anyway, neat technique.
Has anyone tried a larger loop such as 200 feet or 300 feet to compare signal strength? If the noise level stays low, the increased signal strength would be really a plus.
For starters.. never ever drill through the mortar of your masonry. It weakens it considerably and will cause it to erode a thousand times quicker After drilling through it. Always try to drill directly dead center of a brick if you have to drill through masonry. 😶😑
Did you go with the 60ft or 100ft element? I have the room for either but was curious about how much difference the longer element makes for the lower bands. I have a lot of noise on 80 and 40 but don’t want to take away the ability to use it on the higher bands either. Thanks for the video Josh, I have looked at that same kit several times over the last few months and I think I am going to have to let you spend my money……again. 73, KD9VLZ
60ft, go 100ft of you can.
I had 60ft at old qth 100 where I am now. Saw no difference. Now I have a 225/250 ft log and believe it or not but the higher bands work better for me which isn’t suppose to happen lol. Of course the lower bands work best
100' will give you the best result on the lower bands. The trade off is a slightly higher angle of RX on the higher frequencies.
Thanks all
Hi Josh,
Did you get the 60 ft wire for the LOG? WJ3U
I did, yes.
Fun being a kid again, playing in the mud and water.
It's not a true home project without an extra trip to Home Depot.